Robert spends time with commercial Tulsa photographer Shane Bevel of Shane Bevel Photography. Great conversation on a few different photo topics including his long-term project with The Gathering Place.
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Robert spends time with commercial Tulsa photographer Shane Bevel of Shane Bevel Photography. Great conversation on a few different photo topics including his long-term project with The Gathering Place.
Visit our YouTube Videos for more weekly inspiration!
Connect on the Facebook Page for news and upcoming interview polls.
Join the conversations on Flick app
Leave a review on iTunes and let others know about the show
The Foto Twins love using Røde Microphones for smooth, quality audio on our podcast episodes. Be sure to check out their entire line of audio capture devices.
Visit our YouTube Videos for more weekly inspiration!
Connect on the Facebook Page for news and upcoming interview polls.
Leave a review on iTunes and let others know about the show.
The Foto Twins love using Røde Microphones & RødeCaster Pro for smooth, quality audio on our podcast episodes. Be sure to check out their entire line of audio capture devices and tell them the FotoFacts Twins sent you!
You were listening to the photo bags podcast at Bodo facts, podcasts.com yellow one. Here it is Robert, Robert Sans Jim and we're at Fuji Days in Bedford and Tulsa. And we have a special guest that Jim and I had been trying on the podcast for probably two months and I'm going to destroy his name because I actually have his name and my contact list different than what it actually is. But it's Shane Bevel. That's correct. Oh my God, I have one and a. So Shane and I obviously had been sitting here chitchatting prior to hitting the record button and I have found out some extremely interesting things about him. Um, photo journalism background commercial editorial photographer has worked at Barksdale Air Force Base area, you know, has worked at Dallas, Dallas. I was at the Dallas Morning News when I was in college. Yeah, that's amazing. It's some fun stuff there. And um, worked in the lab and started as a clerk on the um, on the night metro desk answering phones and watching TV and uh, watching TV news and writing down what happened and uh, for the editors. The next morning and just kind of went from there. That's crazy. Cause if I knew that you were photo journalists, I would've brought in an item that you would probably recognize immediately. So I just got done movies. So I'm in the process of grabbing that stuff that you put in the attic and then you don't really charge until you move again and you go, man, why am I holding on with this? So I ran across a 1994 AP stound guidebook. Do you remember those? The ones where it would go in and tell you like how the, how the writing properly? I probably still have that one. That would've been, uh, I would've had one then. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's just nuts. The stuff back there. The one thing I remember vividly that I was always corrected on, at least when I was white in the military was if it's 10 or less, you write it out and then 11 or more, you number it as a number using the numerals. Yeah. You know, cause I would always just use the numbers and they said no, no, no, don't do that. Right out one mile two. Yeah. That was kinda crazy. You still use more than instead of over in the appropriate places? No, we never have over three cameras. We always have more than three cameras. Yes. Yeah. Cause you would never say we have under three cameras. We would always say we have less than three cameras. They changed that one apparently recently and allowed for over as inappropriate usage. I have real issues with that. But see there's things that just supplies to me like every second that God talks. This is amazing. Um, so let's go down that road real quick for the podcast. Cause I think the listeners will be very interested and you know, you don't have to go into a long detail of how you got started in photography, but being an an a newspaper photographer, you recently did a transition to being your own boss versus from a staff position. Yeah. What was that like? I mean, cause I feel that there's a new direction that most of your newspapers and staff positions are going. I think it's gonna all be freelancers eventually. Well, mine wasn't a terribly recent. It was in 2009, beginning of 2009. So I'm 50 years old. That's pretty recent. So nearly 10 years ago, um, uh, almost half of my career at this point. And so, um, I was working at the paper here in Tulsa and had just moved here in 2008, 2009, you know, if you think back, that's when housing market crashed and um, uh, you know, Lehman brothers and, and everything else that happened. And, um, we really got, um, hammered, pretty hard, the journalism industry and we had been getting hammered pretty hard for a while. As a matter of fact, I moved here specifically, uh, to move to a family newspaper. Um, cause I thought that would be less pressure from Wall Street and that Kinda thing. And there was, um, uh, but I got caught in that first round of layoffs, uh, here at the paper in 2009. Um, and had some opportunities to go elsewhere and do staff work at other newspapers and, um, just didn't think, um, that I had a better chance anywhere else of holding onto a job. Longterm. It was, it was the start of the really steep downhill slide and staff positions and people were getting laid off left and right every week somebody else was announcing. And, um, so we, uh, my wife and I had moved here and bought a house and she got a job she liked. And so we decided to stay and, um, try and go freelance and see what happened. And, um, it was really strange. I mean, it was, it was not comfortable and not good, um, to not be a staff photographer anymore. I mean, those are two words that had followed my name for my entire adult life, you know, and so then to be freelance all of a sudden, um, was, it was a different kind of adventure. Um, but I shot some, uh, shot some weddings. There's a guy here in town that, that really saved me that first year. Um, you know, handing off weddings and letting me shoot some weddings for him. And, um, I knew I didn't want to do that longterm. It's just not, some people are built for it and some people aren't. I wasn't. Um, but I, I did a good job, had along, you know, photo journalism background and, and um, uh, I did okay fit in his program pretty well and did that for a year for him. And then, um, set about trying to find clients and ended up working for a local magazine, um, for a little while. Um, not very long, couple months we did maybe two or three issues. I did maybe two or three issues with them, um, and found some clients that way and um, also move that I add some national editorial contacts, some newspaper contacts from years and years of being in that industry that would throw me work, but also knew that there was no way to make a living on newspaper freelance rates, even at the national level in this part of the country. There's just not enough work. Um, so started working on building some commercial clients and, um, got lucky a few times and, um, pulled some stuff off that I probably shouldn't have pulled off and, um, and made some friends and, um, ended up, you know, building a loyal clientele and it's just grown from there. And now we're almost 10 years end of that. Wow. So just for the listeners, just so they can understand, because often I don't think a lot of people really understand like how a photographer could differentiate between what we would call it for your own commercial work. So if you can elaborate a little bit about that, because when people think of Tornado, they think just strictly a magazine where sometimes that f for your style fashion or editorial sprout or you know, I've done some corporate annual report covers, I would kind of consider that more editorial than a commercial type shoot. Right. You know, cause they're trying to say something about the upcoming year or the past year. Uh, but if you could just kinda like fill me in like what? Like commercial editorial, like what type of photography? Right. So for me, a lot of it is, um, you know, is it for, is it for publication, um, to tell a story, um, and, and um, in kind of a third party way, you know, or is it, um, for a company and if it's for publication in a third party way, then, then that to me is really editorial work, whether that's a niche magazine or a newspaper or a website. Um, or an investigative team. I do some work for the Center for investigative reporting out of California. Um, and a a group here called the frontier that has a great, um, of really great investigative reporting website that covers Oklahoma. And, um, that kind of work is really editorial work to meeting. Um, and then commercial work, even though it may be the same exact work is for a client. Um, and, and that client is typically the company, um, who you're shooting for. And so that would be corporate work, um, headshots for corporations, um, executive portraiture, all kinds of different stuff. And some of that stuff may be editorial. So like, um, you know, project works where we're trying to document something for a corporation, right? I'm using those same tools that I would use working for a newspaper or whatever. Um, but it's for a different client, different motive. Ah, actually I love that. Right? When you start talking about I was copying in my mind, I'm like, you know, why don't you to do some adjusting on mine because I liked how you talked about that being, you know, public distribution versus a client of a company. Maybe it's going to be just a commercial shoot because it's internal for that company or you know, uh, maybe use it for a website, but it's more value for them. Right. So that, I love that. So when we were talking earlier, you were telling me that you're involved in a[inaudible] project right now in Tulsa that you've been photographing for a long time. Right? So, um, first of all, most of the stuff that I photograph, I photograph for a long time. I do, I really believe in longterm relationships with my clients. And so, you know, uh, one of my biggest clients is a health system here in town and they've been a client, I think this is my eighth year. Wow. And I do almost everything for them that they need done, whether that's covering events for them, social events, which I don't do very often, but because of my relationship with them, um, I know all of their executives, I know all of their people, I know their culture and so they, you know, want me to come to that social stuff. Um, and then, um, you know, so I try to keep, it's, um, it's really expensive to get clients. It costs a lot of money and a lot of time to get clients. I fucking put up a website for and everybody started calling. I started Instagram. And so, um, you know, if you judge your, um, if you value your time, it's expensive to get clients. So when I get clients, um, I, I try not to lose them, you know, I try to, to keep them for a very long time and try to do everything they can. So a lot of what I do as longterm, but the project I think you're talking about is the gathering place, which is a, yeah, it's a park here that, that um, uh, foundation, uh, George Kaiser Family Foundation started and, and then, um, they went, um, they, there are some other people who have funded it, but it's a privately funded park. Um, it's really unlike anything in the country. Um, it's total budget was$465 million and then there's a like a hundred million dollar endowment to cover maintenance costs. Um, and so it's a, um, it's a big project. And about nearly five years ago I started working on it and documenting meetings and um, the space as it existed then. Um, and then have just kind of continued to do that, um, for them, for the client. Um, for that entire period. Is it a construction client or is it the city of Tulsa or is it the endowment foundation? It's the George Kaiser Family Foundation is, is my client. And now the park themselves, um, is it, is a separate company, a separate entity. And they're my client as well. You have an I a previous knowledge of these people, they know about you already only because it seems like for commercial photographers, editorial photographers like your clients contact you because they already know you or they have already dealt with you or they have a referral from someone that has like, Hey, he cannot shower advance and you ask him be$2 where I don't really see those types of clients going into Google and typing in photographer to cover, you know, project of parked building. Right. All of a sudden your name popped up on a website. Right. So I had done some work for the PR for the PR agency that represents, that works with[inaudible]. And then I had done some work for g fF and some of the projects that they fund here in town. And so they knew of me. And actually when I, when I first pitched the project, I was actually shooting for them for another project, u m, and got a chance to sit down next to the guy, u m, that has been running the park project for, u m, Gosh, I think j ust been on it 10 years or something. And, u m, u h, you know, I just told h im, you know, we p it, I p itched the entire thing as a, u m, as a historic archive and said, you know, you're comparing what you're building to, u m, t he St Louis Arch and to central park and to, you know, Maggie Daley Park and Millennium Park a nd, and the Golden Gate Bridge and you know, all these amazing things, the Brooklyn Bridge. U m, and if that's when, you know, the, u m, u h, the empire state building and if that's what your building, then, u m, you gotta y ou g otta document that, you know, you have to show the document, the process of it. Because if you don't, then, you know, day of opening, nobody's going to care. But 25 years down the road, 50 years down the road, a hundred years down the road, somebody is going to be really upset with you if you don't have those photos in hand. And um, so they asked me to come in and talk to them about it and I told them when I first pitched it, I said, you know, hire me, hire whoever you want, hire somebody. But you know, it's an important historical project and you need to document it. And uh, so then when they call me back in, I actually didn't show them much of my work. Um, cause they kind of knew my work. They knew me a little bit. What I showed them was, um, historic images from the construction of the empire state building and the St Louis Arch and um, the, the um, the golden gate bridge and those kinds of things and said, look, this is what you have compared this to for everybody. This is the kind of project you're building. I believe this is the kind of project you're building. I think it'll change Tulsa forever. These are iconic images that you know. And the question is, will you have those images at the end of this project? Wow. That's, that's a great, I mean, I wouldn't even call that a pitch or even not just a reality. Yeah, no, it wasn't really much of a pitch. I mean, if it was, it was pretty bad. Um, you know, and then we talked about what it would look like and the fact that we needed to stay flexible and that, you know, some months we were going to be out there, you know, five, six, seven, eight times and some months we were going to be out there one time. And um, and then they pretty quickly gave me a ton of freedom to cover it the way that I wanted to cover it and uh, to work at like a, like a reporter on a beat. And, um, I talked to individual contractors and workers all the time to figure out what the next step was, what the next story was, what was big that was coming up, what iconic things were gonna happen and make sure that, that I, or occasionally someone else that if I couldn't get there was there to, to make those photos, you know, not like how you're telling the story because this is, I can see how all of your background being a staff photographer is going to help you in perfectly prepare you for a long, this is like doing a long story, you know, a double truck injury, all the photos. I mean this thing is like perfect. You know, there's not a little blip, one column, you know, Metro beat on the back. This is like your editorial story for a week. You're just doing it over a long period of time. So you're perfectly suited for that. Where, uh, you know, a wedding photographer or someone that's just dive in into more commercial type clients may not have that skill set and maybe a great photographer, but they don't have the additional skillsets that go with that. Certainly the ability to work independently and to identify stories and to have the news sent, you know, it's an old journalism term, but to have the new sense to be able to say, okay, this is an important story. And, and this meant maybe it's not, you know, um, so early on we covered a lot of things that are underground now that, that don't exist above ground. They exist but they don't exist above ground and you can't see them. Um, and so, but they were massive infrastructure projects, um, that, you know, a giant, you know, bentonite clay slurry wall that surrounds the entire palm to keep groundwater from leaching in or pond water from leaching out or you know, these, these massive piers that they put in to hold up the land bridges and you know, all these different kinds of things. So this, is this projects done? Is it done well? Yes and no. So the park is open, the park is open. I'm sorry. That's what, I'm not your side of the park. But even at that phase, one of the park is open and it's a three phase park. And so, you know, it's, it's open, but it's not done. And then my project, I, I mean, I feel like, you know, always kind of at the mercy of the client, but I feel like we'll go on for a long time because, um, without getting too much into the park. But there, the, the park has some, um, the people who built a park have some desires for the effect that it will have on Tulsa. And they're not, they're not quiet about those. And, and, um, you know, it's, uh, it's about, it's called the gathering place. It's about unity. It's about bringing people together. It's about bringing the city together. And so, you know, that doesn't happen on, on, actually it happened magnificently on day one, but, but the longterm effect is a longterm deal. So, so the whole story to me started with, you know, um, photographing, you know, the side out of a helicopter five years ago, but you know, goes on for a very long time because of the effects of the park and the way that it will affect the city. Right? It's something sort of like central park in New York where that is. Yeah. I mean, when anybody thinks of New York, they immediately think of that, right? Nothing else. I'm going on the empire state building different things, but always central park, if you say that pretty much anywhere in the world you'll referring to fat park. Right? And that is the place that everybody has to see, et cetera. So that is what this is going to happen in Tulsa. Right? It's a very different park than central park, but it's, every bit is iconic. I mean it's, it's really, um, it's just nothing like it. It's hard to explain. You have to go, I kind of do it again. I need to go to that cause that's going to be, I don't get the Tulsa very often. I'm the, you're probably once every two months. Three months. So work something at Bedford's or Caleb, the Blue Dome district. Yeah, I know that's, you know, I'm probably too old for most people on the light. They kind of look at you find like you're like over 50 like why do you like going there? I'm like just like the, I like the buildings. No, it's a nice district. Yeah, I like it. The lunch box sandwiches that people come up with down there. The food is very good and I like that old diner style feel when you go in. Yeah. I just felt like I could almost watch like James Dean walk in the front door at anytime. Right. Yeah. So that's a great part of town. So I loved that area. Well thank you so much for bit. Well you know what, hang on. Before we go, before we go, I am curious about one thing that you had mentioned just a little bit because kind of dying in just a Smidgen. This is long term projects. I do some construction. Yeah. But you know, when I do mind, they're not really very long term clients in the sense of like a project. Like they want it. But once I hit him with the budget, then they're like, oh, it's gonna be that much money. Like yeah, you want me to come out like every day to photograph your construction project is gonna take three and a half months. So yeah, that's a big, they're like, no, we don't want that. We'll just have somebody take it with an iPhone. I'm sure you've heard of those people. So, uh, you know, the idea of always mountain remote camera on location and just have it run on its own. The biggest problem I have is battery. And of course if I use like a GoPro or something like that, yeah, I can always put in a battery pack. But are there, is there even a specialized industry for that? When we started the gathering place project, we bought a, they bought um, uh, nine longterm time-lapse cameras made by a company called um, kind of. Oh man, you're going to get me, catch me. Line harbor. Um, harbor tronics is the name of it. So there's, so there's an industry out there, there's a marketing towards love them. Yeah. So Harvard trauma builds and closures and they'll sell you the complete kit. Um, they're not cheap. I mean, it's not like buying a GoPro. I think the kids that we bought whenever it was four years ago or whatever, worth$3,000 a piece, um, and, and, and a foundation bought nine of them. And, and, um, they have a really pretty complex time-lapse controller, um, built into them. And then they have a, um, a large lithium ion battery and a solar panel. Oh. And then they, yeah, and then they have a, um, well I think you can put a couple different cameras in them, but the ones we have all have canon rebels in them. Um, and they sit in a waterproof, weatherproof enclosure. And, um, the, the thing that sets them apart to me, I think the timehops controllers alone are five or$600, but, um, they're, they're super programmable. You know, you can run them. Uh, one of the big things about longterm time lapses that, you know, typically people work from what 6:00 AM to 4:00 PM, right. And then, and then the construction site goes dead. So more than 50%, a lot more than 50% of your footage is dead. And then half of it's overnight. And so you have to go back and edit all that stuff out. But that takes forever. Um, and with, with harbor tronics is device with their ops controller, you can actually set it, um, to come on at a certain time in the morning and shoot and then go off in the evening and you can set that to any way you want to. And then it also controls, um, through some black magic controls power to the camera. The timeline is controller does. So the way that our cameras are set at the park now, um, we do, um, come on. Yeah, they wait 10 seconds for the camera to wake up and kind of be ready to shoot pictures. Wow. They shoot a frame and then they wait 10 seconds for the camera to write the file, finish writing the file. And then they shut power to the camera off so the camera doesn't sit there and stay on for five years. It's only on when it shooting. Um, and then, um, and then it's only on from like 6:00 AM to 6:00 PM. That, I mean that's worked with price and rush. That would not have thought about that at all. Just going through, you know, the do want the, the, the Y or DIY method. Like, Hey, I didn't get, get more power cause the cameras consume power all day long. That's, that's brilliant. There's a lot of, to me, he said for building your own stuff in general. And I'm a, I'm a big gear head. Uh, you know, I like my gear and, and um, have way too much of it. But um, they, um, there's a lot to be said for building your own thing and trying to make it work. And, um, but when you get a little higher up in, you know, client stature or budget or whatever you want to do, um, there's a lot to be said for research. I'm finding what's out there and buying the solution, um, that, that exists. And there's exceptions to that. Like, you know, the pocket wizard cables that, that everybody, um, uses, you know, to trigger your camera from pocket wizard or vice versa and you buy from pocket please or will I build my own cause I want to build a specific way. Um, but then you know, that that triggers I buy from, uh, uh, from a guy that has built the same trigger, the actual button that you push, um, that has built them the same way forever. I never, never, he's a light tech for sports illustrated and, um, you know, has, has built that kind of cabling for those kinds of guys for a long time. And so, you know, there's kind of a mix in there. But if, if a solution exists, I mean there's, there's not a better solution that I know of and I looked for quite awhile before we settle on that. Then the Harvard tronics solution for a completely autonomous camera. When we went in and built, when we went in to photograph that when they started the project, there was no infrastructure whatsoever. There was no electricity, there was no wireless, there was no internet anywhere on site, on the 66 acre site. And then on top of that, you're trying to cover a 66 acre site. So everything's spread way out. So you know, people were like, well, you know, put a GoPro up there or you know, we'll put this camera up there and then check it every once in a while. Oh No. You know, we had to install telephone poles to hang the cameras on and the cameras were 65 feet off the ground. So you couldn't just go check them at the end of the day. Hey cause it took forever to do it cause there were nine of them. Second all you had, um, issues with, um, ran a card space or could you get a lift that day? You know, could he get, uh, you know, a high lift that day to get up there to check on, you know, could you find a snorkel lift? Could you get the tree guy with a bucket truck to put you up there for the day so that you could pull them. And um, so it was hard enough to do that every three months, which is about how often we checked them. Um, but doing them all the time would have been, would have been a disaster. That means said that project has gotten some publicity. And so now I have people call me from construction companies wanting to do time-lapse and it just is, um, I did it for this project because it was specific to this project, part of it, and I wanted my hands in it. And, um, but I to do that for anybody else, it's like, that's a huge pain. Um, and honestly there are companies that are really well set up to do it with their own enclosures, with their own stuff. Um, or I tell people, look, I'll, I'll come out and consult with you and show you how to set it up and show you how to do it, but I don't want to come out there every three months and check your camera and then go compile cause it generates, you know, basically 5k video. Um, I think right now we have like nine hours of 5k video, um, from the gathering place project and it's, you know, it's just a whole different business on its own. And, and, and you know, for a guy that wants to make a run at it and thinks he can do it, there's a lot of money to be made there. Cause I've seen what the other guys charge cause we researched that first. Uh, and it's, it's really expensive. But um, in these cameras, don't, you know, they don't stream live to the Internet. They don't, I mean they're dinosaurs. You can stick them out there and, and um, they just run forever. Yeah. That guy, when I called him I was like, well we originally hung some off, some buildings pretty high up. And I said, you know, how go to the enclosures, cause these are going to be out in the weather and way up high and you know, three stories, four stories off the river where the wind blows really hard and this, and then he just kinda laughed at me and he was like, well, I have 10 of them running in the Sahara desert and I have another 10 running in the Arctic circles. So I think you're going to be okay. I guess. So, yeah. I mean I even looked into some of the, uh, you know, other water camera housing. Yeah. And of course you're limited on what you think in the neck to it because it's an underwater camera housing. Right. And, uh, you know, like you said, most of the problems are not that. Yeah. But a lot of times it's always, sometimes it's an upsale, you know, it can be one of those things for, hey, you know, I'll come on x, Y, and Z and hey, for three months I can run you in a little, you know, timelines, video of your building. But again, it's gotta be a special project and it's gotta be part of something else for me. I mean, you know, like I said, there's lots of people that just make a living doing that and that's great for them. But, um, for me it's gotta be part of a bigger project or an institutional client where I shoot all their stuff anyway and they want me to do it. And even then, you know, we would probably push that off somehow. Um, you know, it was time consuming. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It can be really time consuming. It's a ton of data, you know, just, um, we deal with a ton of data anyway, 40 terabytes servers sitting in the office, but, but I'm happy just now to get my 18 terabytes backed up to the cloud while you're backing up to the cloud. Well, I have a network server at the house that I have hard drives that we take to a secondary location and then we had the cloud storage. Um, but you know, moving and, uh, dealing with, you know, Cox Internet and I'm just going to say it. Okay. If you move, if you're a new client, you're golden. Yeah. But if you are a longterm loyal client, um, you don't, you don't get a lot of love from cause. No. And I recently switched from them. They, they at t and t finally put, um, gigabit Ethernet, gigabit fiber to the house. And we had about three to that. But they, you know, back up as a whole mother. I said, it's a nightmare for all of us and is, you know, when you, you know, while he's talking to a friend of mine the other day that I knew back from when we shot film and he was like, man, I, you know, I think we're all approaching the point where we are paying more to secure our archive than we probably would have been filming chemistry at this point. And, and you know, it's funny cause I mean when newspapers started converting and never selling, you know, d ones for$5,000, you know, and icon t ones for$5,000, they couldn't buy'em fast enough because they were, you know, that was nothing compared to what they were spending on building on film and showing chemistry. But um, the backside is so huge and so massive. We went to, we actually went to tape backup this year, last year we went to Lto seven tape backup real. Yeah. So we back up each year has a tape and there's two sets. There's a set in the safe in my house and then a set at the bank and the bank fault. Um, and, and so, and then we have a raid server, a big raid server in that, in the office that where everything lives that we can get to constantly. That's crazy. Cause I'm saying when you, as soon as you said take back up, like hey, that's old school stuff. I mean we did a tape backup back in the dark. Yeah. Like in 1990. Yeah. I thought the same thing. And then that Kinda went out of favor for a while. I think it's Kinda coming back what's coming back. And some different ways that the people who are bringing it back into the creative world are actually the TV, um, guys, the TV and movie production guys. And most of the solutions are driven towards them, um, because they're storing massive, you know, every day area Alexa and red files and all this stuff. And so some friends of mine that have a big video production company here in town were telling me how they did it and I was like, hi. You know, you get like six terabytes for 100 bucks on a tape and a 30 year shelf life. Yeah. That's crazy. Kinda hard to be. And uh, now the upfront investment in the tape drive is a lot. Yeah. But, um, uh, but yeah, you know, it, it, that was the, um, that was our solution for that. I can't, and I have friends that work in it at higher levels and they always say, oh Nah, you gotta put it in the cloud and you know this and that and put it on Amazon web services or do this or whatever. And um, then they start looking at the amount of time to transfer the entire archive. Like once they realize how much there is, then they're kind of like, oh that might not work. And I think those, I think those prices are coming down and there are some services that are kind of, um, all in one. You know, you pay 99 bucks a year and you can back up as much as you want, but if you start really looking into that, like if you're a business, I mean, they, they won't guarantee anything. Um, and so, you know, it's, it's, you know, maybe you could skirt by and recover some files, but if the house burns down and you lose everything, you're still, you know, they're, they're gonna who knows what, it'll cost you to get all your stuff at the end of the day. Cause that's, that's what happened to me. I had a, I'll just say it, I had crash plan turned me on to, and I had crashed plan for three years and they had a, they had a home plan that was 50 or$60 a year. I had the same thing for a little while and I looked at that compared to the business. And the only difference was the home one was on a shared server. Right. Like you didn't get your own individual IP address and your own hard drive. So you were shared on this computer system. You're not thought, I just, you know, it's not my primary backup, it's just a backup. Yeah. And I thought, well this would be good. So that's when I started getting backing up your Cox and found out that if you have Cox cable, you do have a data limit per month and if you exceed that, they will pop you with an overcharge. Yeah. So then we had to upgrade to nine on dollars a month so we could run unlimited data on our cable. Sure. You know how that goes. So did all the same stuff. I get like 15 terabytes backed up man. I'm like, I'm happy. Like it took a year. Yeah. And I am like stoked when I got the email that said, you know, we have not backed up data in three days. And I'm like, that means I'm completely set. Like this is perfect. I'm, I'm still working at the time, but it's still uploaded. So I'm like totally happy. So three years go by, I am happy camper. I'm telling everybody about crash plan and what a great service this is. It's one of my backups. I can get files on my phone and then I get this dreaded email that says we're going to close down that service. And if you'd like, you can switch over to the business one. Okay. Which was more expensive, but hey, it's okay. It's a, it's an expanse. It was like a$150 a year. Okay. But it's going to give you so much better servers for x, Y, z. But the issue was they would not take the data that they already had and migrating the[inaudible]. Oh really? I just started from scratch. That's interesting. And I thought, why would I want to start from scratch? I'm going to start synchronizing. I'll go for somebody else. Like you guys, you'll screw up. I called them up and I'm like, you already had the data. Do you have the data at your server? Like can you not like not delete my data and like turn on this plan and just move it over? I mean it's already there and they're like, no, anything over two terabytes. We cannot believe. Right. And you know the big thing on a lot of those, and I'm not an expert on them by any means, but the big thing on a lot of them is how are you going to recover it, right? If you have to recover 40 terabytes via the web. Oh dude, it takes forever. So the commercial stuff, you know the commercial applications for that allow you both to populate with devices and to restore with devices. So they send you, I think it's, I think it's Amazon glacier will send you a giant box that holds eight terabytes or whatever. You fill it up and ship it back to them. They populate and ship it back to you. You put the next state terabytes on it and you go back and forth. Now there is a cost every time you do that. Right. And then once you and those big commercial plans, a lot of times, once you get that populated, you know you're paying per gigabyte to store it and that. Now that being said, somebody out there is gonna throw a fit and call me and say you're all wrong and everything's wrong and that's fine. If it's changed, that's great and you should, you should jump right on it. It's like anything you do to back up as good. But um, the last time I looked at it seriously, it was, you know, back up what we had and to keep it backed up. Never accessing it, just having it sit. There was thousands of dollars a year. Yeah. Actually I started adding up myself and they kind of get you with the like, oh, it's 3 cents a megabyte of fruit. It's like this really low number. You start going like, well I got like 18 terabytes now and you start doing the math. Yeah. Per Month and then how long you want to keep this data to me. Right. Oh my God, now I'm spending like$15,000. Yeah. Or you know, 20 minutes just like it, this phrasing number. But yeah, I mean if it ever goes down, then you have to pay to recover it all. Uh, yeah. So it's, you know, it's a, it's a terrible situation for all of us to be and to have to do it. Um, the only thing that people call me all the time, new photographers, whatever, how do I back this up? I was like, well, there's a bunch of different ways, but you know, the key is more than once. The key is back it up a lot and have multiple, um, you know, multiple ways to access it in multiple ways to get it back. Um, and uh, yeah. So that's, that's key. Yeah. I um, just because you plug a hard drive into your computer that doesn't make it a backup. That's right. Yeah. Well, if it's plugged into your computer, then it's definitely not a backup. It's on the same system. It's on the other same electrical system. It's on the same, you know, all those things. Y Yeah. Even, even, you know, for me, one of my copies is kept in the office on the server and then one of my copies is kept in my safe, which is in my house and my office, my, my post production office. Um, I have a studio here in town, studio 75 that I'm a co op member of, but my post-production office is in my backyard. So they're separate structures, you know. So if one burnt down, the other one, my mind not burnt out in two. So you got some extra fall protection bay. Yeah. But, but might not, you know, so. So then we tried to keep a copy that is not updated nearly as often as it should be, but we try to keep copy in the bag vault as well. It wouldn't be as, you know, I always tell people when you know, the way the system is going online goes and the copies, they actually get stored offsite. Right. I may lose a week. Yeah. But I'll have all those other ones. Right. So yeah, it's a, it's a complex deal. It is. It is. Well, you know, we've been on it for 40 minutes. I want to do with kind of minute podcast because you've got great information. Uh, so before we go this, you're a gear head. So what would be like maybe one or two things that all photographers security their bag but may not be a photography item? You know, one of those things you used to like, oh my God, this is my goto thing cause I, one of the things for me, and of course I don't have it in my pocket right now, are those little red ties from the think tank. I think other different companies make them, there's like a little bungee core with a little pull thing on the end of their, yeah, I could use those things for everything. I'll hold it just, it's, it's like, um, what do you call like a scrunchie for a woman, one of those little guys they always have in their hand. They always use it for like all kinds of things I haven't seen wrong. I'll do this, go do that. That's just like a little red lash. There's probably a couple, um, my assistants could probably tell you better what I did, what I called for better than I could some days. But, um, uh, but I will, I always carry a knife. I always have a knife. Okay. Um, in my pocket that, um, uh, is varying degrees of sharp. Um, but depending on, on how long it's been since I've took a stone to it, uh, I was carrying a knife. Um, I always carry, uh, uh, clips. So two, two kinds of clips I carry. Um, well what we in the industry, a clips. Yeah. So pony clips, um, they, I have spent a decent amount of time hanging out with video guys, so I kind of, they have their own nomenclature for everything. And so, um, pony clips, which are, are the big like fist size clamps, right? That you small ones just cause it says pony doesn't mean it's, yeah, that's right. That's right. And so pony clamps, we carry several pony clamps and they're good for, you know, pull them back, uh, window shades, you know, further than they should be. Or, you know, if you have a window shade that won't go up all the way, you can clamp it up or, um, all kinds of different stuff. We use those things for and then, um, and use them for, you know, what we're using. We don't shoot on paper a lot, but when we're shooting on paper backdrops, you can shove them in the end and clamp them down and it keeps the paper from unrolling. Um, and then the other kinds of clips that we carry, um, that my makeup artists are always running off with, I swear, cause I, I put them in there and then they disappear. Oh, I wanna know what the security, um, what in the video world is called c 40 sevens, um, which is so familiar. It's a very fancy name for wooden clothes pin. Um, they call them c 40 sevens. Now I've got to research why they call them c 47 or the, I don't know, that guy. My guess would be that, uh, at some point it was, that was the number in the catalog or something for them. But see, 40 sevens white, just plain brown. Um, clothes, just clothes line, clothes, pens. Yeah. Wooden clothes, pens. Those things are pretty invaluable. Uh, find that, um, I do a lot of executive portraiture and um, if you wear a suit every day and that's what you, that's what you get up and put on every day, then you have that suit tailored in a certain way. Right. And usually that's to be comfortable in all day. Um, not to look good in pictures. And so, um, we usually on average take about four to eight inches out of the back of executives coats. Um, and you see 40 sevens to do that, to tighten that coat up the neck loud. You guys are putting any on the main lines? Yeah. Pulls a little bit tighter. Yeah. If they, if they have problems with, you know, if they're, if their shirts too big, we might try to do that. That's a little bit harder to do. But you can tailor clothes with them. You can clamp things in place, you can clamp, um, a gels over the front of lights. Um, cause there wouldn't, they don't get hot. And so if you're shooting on hotlines, if you're shooting on[inaudible] or something, which I don't do a lot, I usually use strobes, but um, they don't get hot. Um, you know, they don't reflect. Um, those things are pretty valuable. And then I'm Tanya gaffers tape, you know, different colors, different sizes, different sizes are important, you know, two inches the later down. Okay. I really want to go. But you, you have such interesting stuff. Have you ever seen that, that the paint gun they have for about, gosh, that, you know, I think that uh, my, my, my m I kinda a one I use contract assistance but my kind of a one go-to assistant, Matt, is he want you to buy one really bad would he would gladly put me into bankruptcy with that thing. Cause it looks to me like, I don't know what it costs to buy, but whatever it costs to buy, uh, we would spend five times that much. The first week we had, uh, putting gaff tape down and just said, yeah, well you just, I mean when you can put it down that easy tape everything down. Yeah. So I gonna look at it was$600. Was it really? Yeah. That doesn't come with any tape. Yeah. That's just the machine at like what's got, what's Prograf now?$27 a roll or something. Um, something like that. Three bill right out, right at 30 bucks. So you walk out and you can blow through some money really fast with one of those things. So when that video comes up on Facebook, I'm like, oh, that's cool. But no way. I just keep putting it down one inch. I didn't, you know, four inches at a time or whatever. Wow. Thank you. Saving lunch. Yeah, no problem. Really for being here. This has been absolutely enjoyable. I'll definitely follow you on Facebook. So how can the listeners find you on, uh, on Internet, social media? Um, you know, cause you don't want to fall like, hey, hey can call him. Our website is, is just Shane, bevel.com. Uh, and then on Instagram, uh, Shane Bible photography. Um, and so those are two good places. We, eh, I don't, I don't do a great job of, of, uh, updating any of that. But there's some stuff on there. Okay, great. Great. What happened when people let go of that and, uh, listeners out there, if you enjoyed this podcast, I'd like to hear some more from Shane. I think there's a lot of more information that we can actually hear from him, so if you want to hear them one more time on our podcast, please hit us up on the photo podcast.com. Thanks a lot, sir. Appreciate it.
Speaker 2:[inaudible]
Speaker 3:at photo begs podcast.com.