Mind of Snaps Podcast

Discussing Psychedelics with Rocky | Episode 18 - Mind of Snaps Podcast

June 17, 2019 She Snaps Season 1 Episode 18
Mind of Snaps Podcast
Discussing Psychedelics with Rocky | Episode 18 - Mind of Snaps Podcast
Mind of Snaps Podcast
Discussing Psychedelics with Rocky | Episode 18 - Mind of Snaps Podcast
Jun 17, 2019 Season 1 Episode 18
She Snaps

I've been talking about doing these episodes for a while and finally got the first one done. Had a lovely conversation with Rocky about our psychedelic experiences using psilocybin (mushrooms) in a therapeutic setting.

Please note that I DO NOT advocate the usage of any psychoactive substances for any young folks, wait till your brain finishes developing please. Also, make sure you check the laws in your area, procure anything you DO take from a safe and reliable source. Do your research, anything that can impact your mind is not worth toying around with. Make sure you understand dosing, make sure you've checked with a doctor to make sure you're not at risk of harming yourself and use a guide whenever possible.

There is a lot of wonderful research out there about the possible benefits of using psychedelics in a therapeutic setting and I suggest you read it.

If you'd like to hang out with Rocky again after this (as you should, cause he's awesome) you can find him through the social accounts below.



Make sure to subscribe to the Patreon if you'd like to make it easier for me to create more free content for everyone!


Jessy (Mind Of Snaps / SheSnaps)


CONTENT --- Twitch | Youtube | TikTok
SOCIAL MEDIA --- Twitter | Instagram

Snap Pack, Best Pack - Join the Community Discord!

Support the show (http://www.patreon.com/shesnaps)

Show Notes Transcript

I've been talking about doing these episodes for a while and finally got the first one done. Had a lovely conversation with Rocky about our psychedelic experiences using psilocybin (mushrooms) in a therapeutic setting.

Please note that I DO NOT advocate the usage of any psychoactive substances for any young folks, wait till your brain finishes developing please. Also, make sure you check the laws in your area, procure anything you DO take from a safe and reliable source. Do your research, anything that can impact your mind is not worth toying around with. Make sure you understand dosing, make sure you've checked with a doctor to make sure you're not at risk of harming yourself and use a guide whenever possible.

There is a lot of wonderful research out there about the possible benefits of using psychedelics in a therapeutic setting and I suggest you read it.

If you'd like to hang out with Rocky again after this (as you should, cause he's awesome) you can find him through the social accounts below.



Make sure to subscribe to the Patreon if you'd like to make it easier for me to create more free content for everyone!


Jessy (Mind Of Snaps / SheSnaps)


CONTENT --- Twitch | Youtube | TikTok
SOCIAL MEDIA --- Twitter | Instagram

Snap Pack, Best Pack - Join the Community Discord!

Support the show (http://www.patreon.com/shesnaps)

spk_0:   0:00
way. Welcome to the mind of saps podcast with your house. Just

spk_1:   0:11
a few steps. A popular

spk_0:   0:13
touch broadcaster, photography entrepreneur and Mendel In this in future cast expect to fall along with as she learns more about her mind in the world because you're messing here. But stick

spk_1:   0:24
around. You might

spk_0:   0:25
just learn something as he went through the mind of snaps way.

spk_1:   0:37
Welcome to the minders. Naff podcast. This is Episode 18. I'm pretty excited about this because it follows a ah, something I've wanted to do for a while. I've wanted to do a lot of research, learn a lot about and then have some discussions related to psychedelics. And this is my first chance getting to do that If you've ever been to my channel. Um, you may know I speak pretty freely about it. I personally think that there is a lot of interesting studies that air coming out right now that are showing some potential benefits from certain types of psychedelics in a controlled therapeutic setting. So I do feel I should probably add the disclaimer really quickly. If you are listening to this and you are under the age of 25 I e meaning like your brain has not fully finished developing yet. I definitely don't recommend doing these if you're young. If you have any past history like do your research, please don't Don't take things that you don't understand, especially if you don't understand your body. There are some studies that show that folks with a history of, um, certain mental illnesses or disorders they may not go well with this. So please keep that in mind if you have a history of like schizophrenia if you if you are unsure of your mental balance in general, I definitely don't recommend going into this just because I said I had a good time. So please, please, please keep that in mind. Mindset and setting are super important. Getting things from a safe place are it's very important. Like anytime you're ingesting anything, you're taking something into your body. Please, please, please be smart. So it's not legal in your area. If it's not something you can do safely if you're not fully of age where you can do this without potential danger to your mind, if you have any past history and your family, that could go that Could you know mess with this. Don't do it. Just please do your research. Be smart. Understand that while we discuss this, it doesn't mean we are experts in this at all. This is just based on the research I've done up until this point in my own personal experiences. So please, please, please be smart. I am not in any way advocating for everyone to go out, track down psychedelics and take them without any kind of research at all. Like I am not a huge proponent of that. I'm excited to see where things go in terms of these potentially getting decriminalized legalized all that kind of stuff. But I wanted to say that before I get into this. So gonna talk today about psychedelics specifically, we're gonna discuss psilocybin, which is what comes from mushrooms. And we'll talk about this with my friend Rocky. You guys may know Rocky from Twitch from Twitter Instagram. I think he does stuff on YouTube to really great content. Creator, personal friend of mine. Very entertaining dude. And I'm I thought having having a conversation with him about his experience would be fun. So if you have taken psilocybin, if you've done mushrooms or therapeutic reasons. And you want to share your story with me, like, hit me up wherever you want. Hit me up. Twitter, instagram discord, twitch. Let me know that you're open to having a conversation about psychedelics. And we may do more of these because I really think that there's a massive stigma attached. And if we did more research, if we worked a little bit harder to reduce that stigma, these could potentially help a lot of people. That's what I believe again. Remember the disclaimer from earlier. But having said all of that, we're gonna jump in and bring in Rocky. Okay. Rocky.

spk_0:   4:14
Hi. How's it going?

spk_1:   4:15
Say, what the fuck is up?

spk_0:   4:17
What the fuck is up?

spk_1:   4:19
He, uh, go ahead and introduce yourself. Let people know who you are. Where to find you all that kind of schnitzel before we get into this.

spk_0:   4:25
Okay, I'm Rocky. I'm twitch dot tv slash rocky and at Rocky on Twitter on all social media. Um, I am a competitive gamer, but I've instrument for about four years and I run. I'm currently playing for tonight Started with Destiny, which where I met snaps and a lot of other lovely community members. Um, pretty much it. I like to play a whole bunch of different video games. Sometimes I'm competitive. Sometimes I just like to kick it and have fun with the community, and that's about it.

spk_1:   4:54
And you're very open. You talk about a lot of stuff not just related to gaming, which I very much like.

spk_0:   5:01
Yes. So I I did, actually, I've been doing mindfulness personally for a long time, and, uh, I did a mindfulness and meditation stream. I've done a handful of them, but I did one back before IRA was a thing and actually got banned for it. By first year streaming about four years ago, I

spk_1:   5:17
just remembered that I started to say I was like, Oh my God, I remember this happening.

spk_0:   5:22
Yup, because it was technically not creative content. I titled Tried to Be Clever at titled The Stream. The Art of Creating Happiness in Your Life or Something like that that got banned within an hour of being live joke. Somebody's happy about it. It's

spk_1:   5:39
upsetting just because, like, you know, some of the shit that kind of slides and people are like broadcasting porn in directories and everyone's like tagging and flagging, and somehow it doesn't get taken down for a long time. But like you

spk_0:   5:53
may with, like, 30 viewers and talking about happiness. And they're just, like, get this off of my sight. Now

spk_1:   6:00
get this filth off of here.

spk_0:   6:01
This trash off fasting. This is Twitch. Okay.

spk_1:   6:05
Oh, my gosh. All right, So you know why we're here? Yes, We're gonna talk about psychedelics. And I let everyone know as we were letting into this that we're talking about psilocybin specifically, which is the psychoactive component of magic mushrooms, as many people call them. So did you before we started talking about it, cause I know like our conversations kind of lead into it, but did you have any intentions of trying any psychedelics, Like, had you done any research? Did you? Were they something that were on your radar?

spk_0:   6:38
Not really. Um, growing up. I always thought that that would be probably one of most interesting things to experience. Just cause it's so different than everything else. It's not just, ah, it's not just a feeling, you know, you're you're getting an experience out of it. So I was interested in it, but I never had any plans of doing it. Really? Just because I had any time I've ever smoked marijuana, uh, I get I really enjoyed smoking marijuana. When I first started in college, I smoked for about a month, and then all of a sudden I started having really bad experiences with it. I would freak out, I would get, like, really paranoid. Um, it was just unsettling. So I thought Okay, well, if that's gonna unsettle me to the point where I don't want to do it anymore, I'm not touching psychedelics because it

spk_1:   7:22

spk_0:   7:22
actually kind of scared me. The idea of it, because being out of control of your situation. Really? Ah, that idea didn't sit well with me, so I didn't have any intention of doing it, nor had another research.

spk_1:   7:34
So what changed your mind?

spk_0:   7:37
Well, I do happen to have a friend who is very well versed in these types of things and is very convincing. S o. You know, when I was talking with you, I know that you did a lot of research into it, which made me feel comfortable because I trust your judgment. And I know that you, if you're gonna do research into it. You're actually gonna put your best foot forward and figure out what the deal is, what the right thing is, and with the pros and cons are, um I know if somebody you trust tells you that it's okay, and that's gonna be all right, then it's OK. And you were kind able to guide me through the experience ahead of time and let me know what to expect, which I enjoyed. Um, and the fact of the matter that, like what I didn't expect was that I was gonna have his most control over the experience as I did. Uh, most of that comes from meditative practice, which you had told me ahead of time, which made me feel a lot more comfortable going in that if you have a good practice of kind of centering yourself and clearing your mind thing, you'll be able to do that while on the psychedelics. And it was true.

spk_1:   8:39
Yes, so cool. So we were talking about this before we started recording. But it's funny because, like you were coming out to hang out anyway, I I was fortunate enough to have a safe source or some silly side on mushrooms at the time, and we talked about trying. I know you were a little bit on the fence and like I'm not I'm not about to be that peer pressure a friend, like we were discussing, having them with whoever else was over or coming out at the time was Dougal,

spk_0:   9:11
Dougal was there. Yeah.

spk_1:   9:12
Okay, so we were We were talking about it and, like, I didn't want to leave you high and dry or anything, you know, like, you know, it was the discussion. Like, will we, won't we? We had the plan. We may do them this day if everyone is on board, if everyone feels comfortable and you're still kind of on the phones and then we just kind of, like set him there, Had some conversations when did it, like, totally click for you were like, Fuck it. Let's try it.

spk_0:   9:39
Um, after you were just like, you know, it doesn't matter. We'll just have a good day. I was just thinking about the rest of the weekend. I was like, All right, you know, if if we don't do this, then I'm just gonna We're gonna go out for pizza. We're gonna get some drinks, gonna hang out with some people. It will be fun. And it would be like a lot of the other conventions and meet ups that I've been to, which are all experiences that I enjoy. But I've had a lot of times before, and I was just kind of thinking about where I was at. Um, I've been doing the same thing for a while, and I kind of just wanted something new. I want to have a different perspective. It sometimes we get to like, mental routines and we need something to break them up. And you can either you can either be that catalyst or sometimes a new experience or doing something out of your comfort zone is that new perspective that you needed. So I figured I kind of wanted something different, and I wanted Thio have some type of transformative experiences and really spice up the weekend of it. So this

spk_1:   10:31
B s

spk_0:   10:32
so I figured I'd give it a shot and I do a little bit just to see how how it is and how I kind of reacted to it. And then we did that micro dose. So we did a small dose. I

spk_1:   10:43
wouldn't call it a micro dose. Micro dose thing is something very specific. That's like point time.

spk_0:   10:47
What? We did that at first, remember? I don't know if you remember that. And then when that kicked in, I took the other, like 0.85 to do.

spk_1:   10:54
Okay, Okay. Yeah, you're right. I have forgot. Because I don't I don't particularly love micro dozing, so I don't even know if I did that. I think I might have jumped right into the like 11.25

spk_0:   11:04
I think me and Alex Micro dosed. That would make sense. Like 30 minutes later, I started feeling something, and I kind of wanted to get an idea of what exactly the feeling was just thio almost imagine that feeling amplified. So that's why I did like the micro dosed. And then, um, that felt nice. It felt like, kind of just meditative calm, almost like CBD, but much, much more potent, I guess. And that type of calm, I was like, All right, cool. I like this. I'll do a little bit more. I'll do a small dose today and see what happens. And then we did that, Um And it was It was good. It was definitely different than the second day. For sure, huh? It

spk_1:   11:49
was that little bit of like calm you get. I think the best way to describe it is is the like euphoria like you get like, a little dose of that euphoric kind of high, but it's not like a doggy. Hi. It's more like

spk_0:   12:03
a meditative hi. It's like a post meditative calm, but you didn't take. The psychedelics are almost like meditation steroids. They get you from point A to point B a lot faster than you normally would like. It's something that you could potentially obtain with extreme meditation, but it would be very difficult and challenging.

spk_1:   12:21
Yeah, without, like a longstanding practice and a lot of work and getting better and better at the letting go of things part, um, totally agree, because after, like the majority of my trips, any time I meditate for like weeks after that, I can hit that so quickly. Like right? I don't battle. My father is often. It's just like e. I'm relaxed. I'm I'm here and I'm president. And let's just watch these thoughts go by

spk_0:   12:46
Onda reason they call. It's things like this. Mind expanding drugs is because you're you're expanding your capacity because you can see the potential that you can reach. It shows you a reference point that your brain control back to and our brains just like to compare in general. But once and it's almost like breaking through a plateau at the gym it once. If you can't believe that you can lift heavier than X amount of weight and then finally, one day you break through, then it's gonna be easier to get back up to that next time.

spk_1:   13:15
Yeah, it's like the ah, I don't remember the time limit, but everyone references this for, like, motivational purposes. Whoever the 1st 1 was to break the record for running a mile. Everyone thought up until that point it like four minutes.

spk_0:   13:30
Four minute mile. Yeah, Once it was broken, nobody thought it could be broken. And then once it was, it got broken.

spk_1:   13:35
They thought your your heart would fucking burst in your chest if you broke it so no one

spk_0:   13:39

spk_1:   13:39
be that

spk_0:   13:39
exploded. Yeah.

spk_1:   13:40
Then one dude visualized himself crossing the finish line one second under four minutes, and he actually did it, and then everyone could do it. And now I think it's even even lower, which is crazy,

spk_0:   13:53
or as gamers, you know, this is in this base. A good reference point is when you have enough objective or a task and a game like beating a boss or something and you just can't do it for a week and you finally beat that Boston, you can do it every time. After that, yeah, just expanded your capacity. And you know what's possible now? Kind of that thing, Um, which which is really cool, because after I left Chicago just everyday life, being mindful was so easy. It was just so simple. My brain was just kind of attracted to looking at different things and looking at things in a different way, just naturally and organically, where it was just a mindful approach to my day without effort.

spk_1:   14:35
Yeah, I feel like it really re opened my curiosity, but not just like being curious, because I feel like we'll do that. But being totally free to browse that curiosity, like if I'm out in public with friends and I'm suddenly curious about a tree like I don't feel as weird now walking over and just staring at it and being like, Damn, this bark is so fascinating. Whereas before I would have been like It's weird when you're curious about things to just stop and inspect them. And that's like what kids do, and we shame them for it after a while. It's such a shame.

spk_0:   15:14
No, absolutely. And I think that my favorite thing is the psychedelics kind of Have your eyes get dilated, your people's get dilated. You take in more light. Um, and you just start seeing things a little bit brighter and kind of appreciate visually, just the way light refracts off of different objects in a room or just small details. Shadows. You're much more Ah, in tunes like what they look like. And I would just take a minute throughout my day in the weeks going forward afterwards to just be completely, I guess, in awe. That's what it did for me. It didn't sparked my curiosity so much as it reignited my awe for just things that would otherwise be mundane. I would see the way that the light would reflect off of a mirror, and we're like the glass in the shower, and we're just off of, ah, beat of water in the shower. You just look at things in a different light, and it's amazing.

spk_1:   16:14
It is. So tell me about the first experience versus the 2nd 1 So the 1st 1 you did like one gram total. The 2nd 1 you did two and 1/2 or three.

spk_0:   16:24
Two and 1/2. Okay, so the one grand total was kind of like a really extreme deep meditation. Hold on one second. I need to drink some water. Mmm. Everybody listening. Drink some water. Because

spk_1:   16:40
Riley would be so proud.

spk_0:   16:43
So, yeah, the 1.1 or whatever we took that was like an extreme meditation. It was I was very in tune with my own feelings, my own thoughts, and it kind of exacerbated my feelings of empathy. Like, I was very aware of what you and Alex and do. People were thinking and feeling

spk_1:   17:04
kind of just

spk_0:   17:06
based on subtle body language and tone ality. Um, it's things that I probably would pick because I consider myself a pretty perceptive person. Like when I'm conversing with somebody, I pick up a lot on how they're saying things not just what they're saying. Oh,

spk_1:   17:20
you're very empathetic person. Totally.

spk_0:   17:22
So I think that what this did for me was typically, if I'm having a normal conversation with someone, I'll ignore those things because I think I'm either reading into this situation or I don't want to be presumptive or something like that. And then afterwards I reflect back and I'm like, Yeah, I think I was right here and here with my assessment. But when I was when I had taken the Thea Psilocybin mushrooms, I was very confident that I was right in the moment with how you were feeling and how you were thinking. I remember thinking like you kept trying to reassure me how different it was with more doses and the way that you were saying it. I felt like you were disappointed in your experience, like how much what you were feeling, and you didn't want me to have a negative opinion of it or dislike you. So you're trying to really, really hard to reassure me that this is very different. This is still enjoyable, but you don't understand. It's very different. Yes, and I think I told you at one point I was like, Listen, it's totally fine. Like, I'm still enjoying this. Let's enjoy whatever this is. And we can always revisit it tomorrow and do more. You

spk_1:   18:28
remember that Because I was stretching at the time. I was like doing yoga in the corner. And I remember feeling like I said the word disappointed. And as soon as I said it, I was like, No, no, you're not disappointed. You just you want clarity, Like you want to make sure that he knows that, like, this is nothing like what it's about to be. It is still a beautiful thing. It could be wonderful, like you were saying for, like, meditative purposes. There's so much there. But I had a hard time explaining, like, just just fucking wait, dude, just wait.

spk_0:   19:02
And, uh, yes. So it was kind of like that, and it was also kind of like being really high on T h c. Okay, but without the mind racing thing, it was Yeah, it made me very introspective. Which th he does. But th see, I don't really have control over my thoughts because it's just lightning fast like thought. Afterthought, afterthought, afterthought. Pinball ing around its ZX 80 HD, but worse, you know. So it was like that. But I had control over it and it was common, slower paced. So it's like if you take that, you really slow it down. That's whatthe 1.1 waas. Then the next day the 2.5 or whatever it was that we did um, yeah, I think it was 2.5 that was drastically different. So right when it started to hit me the first day I was looking at your TV and I noticed that almost in like an instant that the shadows above your TV like the light coming in from your glass the glass door next year, TV. It kind of looked a little bit more cinematic, almost like if you take the filter on instagram the silhouette filter.

spk_1:   20:19
Yeah, and

spk_0:   20:19
like you add the shadows around the border. It kind of looked like that above your TV, and I was like, Oh, that's really cool looking, and that's as far as the visuals got the first day. And then I started, like laughing. We were looking at moving art, and there was some giant whale with this face pressed up against the screen, and I just started giggling because it was funny. So that was the first day. And in the second day the same thing happened with the sell out of the shadows. But it was a lot more pronounced. And

spk_1:   20:45
then I

spk_0:   20:45
started seeing like the light coming off the television, bouncing off the ceiling, and it got me thinking like these air light rays that are actually here. Typically, it's stuff that's here, but I'm seeing it in a different light because my eyes were taking a much more light and everything's more pronounced. I'm just paying much more attention and focused to things that are here but are too settled to pick up typically. So so then that kicked in. And I legitimately the way that I guess you. You see light. It's almost like you take a camera lens like a movie lens, and you throw it over your entire vision. I felt like I stepped into a movie, Um, which was amazing, You know that they called the Magic Hour like twilight in Yet and photography. So right about sunset. That's when light looks the best for printing pictures, and you've probably experienced in your day to day life where you just feel like you're kind of in a very picture. Ask her movie like setting and everything looks cool. Imagine that. But in the middle of the day and it's every moment, it's not just one angle of the light is everything looks that way so that I thought was incredible. And when that happened, I remember again we're watching moving art. And this one was like the animals one. It was like the junk like not the jungle. It was like the African savannah lions running and gazelles prancing. And I remember I looked over at you and I said, All right, I'm here. I'm at the show. I understand now because it was completely different than the first day

spk_1:   22:23
because, like the first day I remember, I remember afterward like you would have a great time. I had a great time and I was just trying to like, trying to get you to see like this was beautiful, but like what comes next is so very different. And so I found. And, um, I think you were thinking that you could extrapolate and say like, Okay, yeah, based on what I've experienced I think I know what you're saying. I'm gonna probably feel this way. And then when it actually kicked in and I saw your face, I was like, Oh, he's there. Yup, I see it now. He sees what I was talking about. Is it really like like Alex know whenever we would trip the other We always noticed when it was kicking in because of the movement and the colors, like it suddenly feels like, You know, the curtains are almost billowing a little bit and you start feeling like the house is breathing, which almost makes like for people who are stone sober, like listening to this. It sounds creepy, but it's very warm and encouraging, like it feels so comforting. You see it and then the colors they just get. Like you said, It's like that magic golden hour filter. Suddenly everything as a little bit more vibrant and bold and just bucking gorgeous. It's like, uh, it's It's just so pretty.

spk_0:   23:41
Yeah, it's, um, and I remember as well that when it first kicked in, I started. Ah, you know what the difference is between the first and the second day. The main difference. It's that the first day was me having a feeling because of the substance and me also like kind of, um it was an individual approach almost. It was like I was exploring this and these were still my thoughts, and I was using the substance to think deeper and condom winnings. The second day was more of an experience that was being shown to me. I was the control, but it wasn't me having an experience. It was me. There was an experienced happening and me being a part of it, you know, you're along for a ride. It's almost like a right on when you start feeling that, like waving issue like you were saying, It's almost like you're strapped into a roller coaster and you realize, Okay, this first loops about toe happen. It's moving, the ride's here and you're along for that ride, whether you like it or not, so you just have to embrace it and let go. It's the same thing if you resist being on a roller coaster. If you're afraid of being on a roller coaster, you could have a miserable time. Could be screaming the whole way. Something with something like this. Once you resign yourself to the fact that this ride is happening, whether you enjoy it and sit back and let go and try and dictate your experience or you resisted the entire way that you're gonna have drastically different outcomes you.

spk_1:   25:11
That's why I like whenever people are asking about this, we're talking about it. I always make sure it's so clear, like mindset and setting are so important because you do have control like you were saying. You you have the ability to kind of, like snap things back into place. If you're especially if you're not on a massive dose like you condemn finitely, see what's happening. No, it's coming from the mushrooms, but kind of bring things back to where they were and still feel like, pretty much normal. But you also have this wonderful, comforting sense, like it's okay to let go. Just let go. It's okay. Like you're in a safe place. You planned for this, which we really did. If you recall like I'm I'm very like militant about how I go about these things. I make sure we're super well hydrated. And make sure

spk_0:   25:58
we don't have

spk_1:   25:58
crap in our tummies because no one wants to feel gross when they're tripping. Because whatever you're feeling does get amplified.

spk_0:   26:05
Oh, yeah.

spk_1:   26:06
And the last thing you want us to be, like, Holy present through a stomachache.

spk_0:   26:11
Yeah, that was the one thing that was really uncomfortable. The second, the first dead and get any sort of stomachache. The second day, I definitely felt nauseous for maybe 5 to 10 minutes

spk_1:   26:22
in the first, like, 45 minutes or so as their body is like. Okay. What the fuck is this? Okay. What the fuck is this? All right, We're good.

spk_0:   26:30
Exactly. With the second that it started to really kick in again, I and I was just along for the ride, and I realized it was almost as if that nausea, like the nauseous feeling transformed into the waves that my body started feeling. It sounds really weird, but it's almost like you feel this one sensation that you can imagine it in control with your mind as it becomes a different sensation within your body.

spk_1:   26:54
Totally. And not everyone gets nauseous. For those of you listening, not everyone gets gets nauseated from taking any kind of mushrooms. There's different strains. The ones that we had were some of the Cubans is, which is one of the ones that I think is most common out there. I've tried some other strains that tend to be a little cleaner in terms of the way they feel in your body. Like I for me, like my stomach is very sensitive. So I get a little into a little iffy after our like in that 1st 40 minutes or so, almost no matter what. But the other strains seemed to be much better, and it's still it comes and goes pretty quickly.

spk_0:   27:34
The first day we didn't eat anything beforehand, we only had coffee and water. And then the second day we had, like, eggs and bacon. But that was probably it that they wasn't sitting well, the combination.

spk_1:   27:45
Yeah, I usually fast when I trip, because I've I've noticed it helps me a lot.

spk_0:   27:50
Yeah, definitely. That's probably the best way to do it, but, um, so I don't think I asked you too much about your trip when I was there. I know that you had told me about, like, a couple of your other trips where you had experienced, like, different lifetimes and things like that. But do you remember what your trip was like when I was there?

spk_1:   28:08
Um, I remember making, like, kind of a final call when you were there. That was, like, Okay, in the future when I trip, I have to remember what type of trip I'm having. Like, I I honestly, for what I go to get out of it, I prefer solo tripping these days just because I have a very hard time especially, you know, cause, like, I was introducing you to it and trying to help you, like, have a nice, peaceful trip. Um, it basically is. All I think about in my trip is the people who

spk_0:   28:42
were there. People's trip.

spk_1:   28:43
Yeah. So, like, the majority of the time when you were there, I was having a lovely time in my head. You know, I still was doing my yoga and stretching and listening to music, but I couldn't Holy relax into it because I wanted to make sure that you were okay. I wanted to make sure that everyone was okay so very regularly out. Open my eyes and look over and check up on you very regularly. I'd be like, Are you feeling good. You need anything like so, Solo Tripping Shik. It's wild tripping with friends or family, and I am like, my existence is to make sure they feel good.

spk_0:   29:19
Okay, fair enough. I can totally see that too, Because whenever if if I was in your position, I would definitely feel the same way.

spk_1:   29:27
Yeah, like introducing someone you care about to something that can be kind of overwhelming if you don't know kind of what to expect, you know?

spk_0:   29:37
Yeah. Plus, you want them to experience what you've experienced. You don't just want it to not be bad. You want it to be a great experience. So you're trying to script that whole thing with the moving art you were constantly telling us. Okay, Put on like a blindfold. Take it off. At this point, experience the colors at this point, experience your thoughts and at different. You're looking at the clock. You're just keeping track of how long it's been. You know, it's completely different. You have responsibility while tripping.

spk_1:   30:05
Yeah, it was it was still very nice because, like, that's that's something that brings me a great deal of joy is like helping people connect to themselves. And that's what I think. Like certain psychedelics, especially with the right setting Conduce do so like it's It's one of the affirmations I do before stream every day. I I connect to people daily. I help people connect to themselves daily. So like while I was tripping and had you guys, they're experiencing it like I was like Cloud9 just so happy because I saw the fucking look you had on your face and I'm like, Oh, I know how that feels. It's so encouraging. It's so beautiful and pure, especially when you see that it's not just the psychedelics doing it for you is you connecting to you. You suddenly are just like Oh my gosh, I really am awesome, like I really can do whatever I want. We really are all one Love really is all you need, man.

spk_0:   31:02
It's true it And it's funny to that when you are in that mindset that a lot of the different things that you've heard or different teachings. There were a lot of different Buddhist sayings that are clear ancient that I connected with and resonated with at a different level that I thought, Oh wow, I understand now, And they've known this for thousands of years. Were they tripping back then, or is it just let the type of meditation that they were doing that they got into this mindset that they can understand life and existence at this level? Yeah, I remember. One of the funniest things was when you looked over and I the blanket that I was using, I literally threw it over my head. And I was looking at the I felt like a little kid, like you remember when you'd have, like, blanket forts or something like that? You felt like you were in a cave or like, your own little world. And I did that with the blanket because it was kind of a transit semi transparent blankets that light was coming through. Yeah, it looked like, um, it looks like the patterns of the stitching on the blanket underneath. It looks like the little stars that you would put on your ceiling as a

spk_1:   32:09
kid. I like

spk_0:   32:10
the little glow stars. And I thought I was like, Wow, I'm in my own observatory right now. This is amazing. Giggling under a blanket and you're like, Rocky, what do you do it

spk_1:   32:20
because like to paint the picture for our lovely listeners here. So whenever whenever I trip, whenever anyone else is doing this with me like I make sure they know like you want to be comfortable, it's fuck anything that pulls you out of like the present moment you don't want. Like if you're wearing a belt, that's uncomfortable if you're too warm to cold, whatever. So, like, I usually rock out with a bathrobe because it's super comfy. And I can easily like get cooler by taking the robe off, warmer and like, kind of wrap myself in it and feel really comfy and happy. So we're all super cozy, like jammies stretched out across the living room. I got the yoga mats out. We've got incense going. I had the essential oil diffuser going. We had really peaceful, soothing music. And it's cool because, like moving art is set to this really beautiful classical music that you don't necessarily focus on the music. But the music impacts the stuff you see in your mind. So, like as the music raises and then drops, it's almost like your brain is like, Okay, we're gonna have the climax of the story here and then the resolution. So

spk_0:   33:25
Fantasia almost.

spk_1:   33:26
Yes. You're having these, like, little, many experiences that are kind of in time with the music, which is wild. So we're all stretched out Super cozy. Rocky is on my couch in the corner. So we have, like, the chase lounge, part of it, the shoes And you're, like, stretched out. You've got a pillow behind you. You still, I think, had my head band around your head because you would just like taking it off of your eyes. And I looked over and he is like, full body stretched out underneath this blanket. And he's kind of like holding part of it up over his head and then, like, pawing at it like a fucking And he's just so fucking happy I like asked what you were doing and you moved it from your head and you're just smiling your ass off. And you told me the same thing. Like I feel like I'm seeing stars right now.

spk_0:   34:19
Yeah, it was really funny. It was good. I was like, You should try this. Do you want the black girl? You just enjoy you

spk_1:   34:28
like I'll remember that moving

spk_0:   34:30
forward. You know,

spk_1:   34:32
I don't want to take away from your experience. Please continue on. And your amazing observatory.

spk_0:   34:37
No, it was good. That was great. And I remember I heard you at one point. There are a few times throughout the trip that it got a little unsettling and my mind started to go to a place I didn't really like. Um, we're just having had a connotation that I didn't like again. I think it was partially because of the music. There were a couple of, um, those episodes that had a little bit more ominous of a tone.

spk_1:   35:01
Yeah, that kind of, like, deeper, lower. And then it builds into the positive stuff.

spk_0:   35:06
Right? So it was during one of those, and I wasn't feeling so great about the way I was thinking and feeling s o. I remembered what you said. Like, if you're just not liking what you're thinking, just say OK? I don't like this. Let it go and then say I want to think about this now. So you just completely meditating. Just meditate the crap out of yourself, you know, just mindfulness. So I was doing that. And then while I was focusing on that and focusing on the music. I heard you talking to Alex, but I It sounded like you were speaking in tongues. Um, which was unsettling. But then I asked myself that I was like, Why is that unsettling to me? Is it unsettling? Cause I don't understand it. And if so, like, why is that bothering me? And I was able to just kind of observe it and just appreciate it for what it was. And I was like, All right, that's kind of cool. Then you know, my inner paranoia of like, Oh, I didn't just break something in my brain and Emma did. I'm not gonna be able understand people talking from now on or dead language. You have those little fears. Am I Okay? Is something wrong? And I having a stroke or something like that? You just don't know. So then after the trip, I think Alex said to me that he thinks I was experiencing raw audio. Like I was just hearing audio coming in, and my brain wasn't processing it. I was just catching myself observing it. Yeah, which is crazy when you think about it, because right now, think about the feeling of your legs touching the chair that you're sitting on.

spk_1:   36:41
You're not the boss of me,

spk_0:   36:43
okay? Do it because you want to know because I told you to. Fine, Fine, Fine. So you that sensations there, That feeling now, if you draw your attention to the feeling of your clothes on your body, that's another feeling of touch that you didn't experience before you weren't aware of. Um, if you're looking towards your computer screen, you're also picking up the corners of your room and everything else that's in your room in your peripherals. But you're just

spk_1:   37:05
all that into every data. All

spk_0:   37:07
that sensory data is going into your brain, but you're just not processing it because there's no point in doing it. But it's still going in there. It's there. If you decide to draw your attention to it, Um, which is why sometimes when we're accounting memory, we could remember things that we didn't realize in the moment because that information was there. So it got me thinking, Wow, how much information is my brain processing If I'm hearing sounds and that's kind of like when you're in the auditorium and it sounds like rabble, Rabble, rabble, rabble. Yeah, all of that is actual sound. And if you choose to focus on it, you can actually hear what's going on where you can see what's going on. So it made me almost start to think that if I meditated on this, that I could develop super sensory like ability, like almost like a superpower, kind of like their devil or something like

spk_1:   37:54
that, where if

spk_0:   37:56
you can learn to train yourself on focusing on things that you don't normally pay attention to, there's so much going on and think about how many other things we're just not aware of, like that empathy that me picking up on what you're thinking and feeling that's there, that there's something

spk_1:   38:11
still son. Three data.

spk_0:   38:12
Yeah, there's data that's tangibly there that you're just ignoring or not picking up on. So if you can tune yourself into that, you can live at a much more mindful, profound and present moment because you're actually experiencing more of the present moment.

spk_1:   38:26
Do you know the numbers behind that?

spk_0:   38:28
Behind What,

spk_1:   38:29
um, the sensory data coming in because I learned this recently and it's it's fascinating his fuck, um, we are taking in 11 million bits of data per second.

spk_0:   38:39
That's crazy

spk_1:   38:40
and we're processing. Guess how much of that we're processing like actively, like, kind of aware of,

spk_0:   38:46
I'd say less than 100

spk_1:   38:48

spk_0:   38:50
40. It's

spk_1:   38:51
40 bits out of 11 million. That's all you're getting, which is nuts because, like you said, that stuff is still going in there. And it's part of the reason people I have a hard time sleeping at night because they don't give themselves any stillness any time for their brains to do what they need to do and process that information, determine what to keep, determine what creates new ideas, all that kind of shit. So they laid down to go to sleep at night, and their brain is like, Look at all this shit I collected today Let's go through it And I think

spk_0:   39:18
about how much of a hard time you have processing just the 40 bits

spk_1:   39:23
for real. So one of the things that's interesting and this is this I could be wrong about this, but my understanding of one of the things that still a Simon does for you, and I think we talked about this before We did it is that it changes the way that serotonin works. So serotonin apparently is one of the things that basically is is the door from the 11 to the 40 the 11 million to the 40 bits. So serotonin is the thing that's saying, like I'm gonna just, like, barely let you process or actually like experience. These things were taking in because too much sensory data is overwhelming. It's too much. Then you take psilocybin, and that door opens much wider, and suddenly you're I don't know what the numbers are on that, but suddenly you are way more aware of so much more sensory data. And like you were kind of saying with the sound, it's almost like in its raw form, because auditory sensations are kind of wild when you're tripping like they kind of dance around in your brain a little bit. It's like you get Thio experience the sound, moving all the way to you and then moving around in your brain. And then it settles into you saying, I know what this is that I just heard.

spk_0:   40:33
Yeah, it's and it's crazy that your vocal cords are just vibrating air molecules, which are then vibrating through the room, pushing it on the anvil of my ear. My brain is interpreting the amount that it's pushing it on that anvil as sound. And then it's taking those sounds in assigning meaning to them. That's mild, insane. It's amazing. And I think the thing that I took away from it the most when I was going forward was this idea that when I'm in a bad mood, or when I'm overwhelmed or stressed, where is my brain? Where is my focus? Focus is the most important thing, and my focus, oftentimes, is on intangible things. Things that are going on in my mind, my emotions or predicting the future or harping on the past. Things like that. It's all in your brain. You're kind of like behind your eyes, so to speak when mushrooms told me, is that you can find joy in the present moment. If you take that slider and you go from intangible, focus all the way to the other end and focus on tangible. You focus on the things that you can touch that you can see the things that are actually around you because that's all that you do physically have here in the present moment, so

spk_1:   41:43
future might not ever come to be not in the way you keep, like, believing in your mind. But what is here is what's here right now in front of you

spk_0:   41:51
and the reason that mushrooms, like you, said it can opens the gate a little bit. And it forces you to experience so much of that that your focus is on processing new information. And it's not on harping over old stuff. So that's why you're able to enjoy yourself as much as a little kid. A little kid has that sense of wonder in all in every moment, because everything is new and you're experiencing it nonjudgmental because you're just curious. What is this? What does this mean for me? And as we get older, we kind of categorize things and throw them into boxes and in our brain to make things easier to sort and handle our tasks. And this isn't important for me getting this project on at work. So I just need to block out emotions, and I don't need to enjoy what that tree looks like today. I was not gonna get this TPS report on my paper or stuff like that. It's so important, Thio do. Even when you have your societal duties or your obligations because it's going to keep you levelheaded, it's gonna keep you calm. It's gonna keep you centered, and they're gonna be able to put your best foot forward. In all of these, focus is the most important thing. Focus becomes your thoughts, your thoughts, then become your actions and your actions will dictate your results or your reality.

spk_1:   43:08
And I

spk_0:   43:08
remember hearing one of your mindful talks, and you were talking about how your brain is kind of like a giant computer processor like ghoul. Almost. And that's why self talk so important. What you say to yourself, your brain's gonna say, Okay, um, life sucks. Quick query Life socks Question mark. Let's search for all the things that would validate that Is that is that true? And then it's going to search for all the reasons that life may suck just to validate what you're thinking. It's like, but your brain is doing this objectively, completely with no ulterior motives. But you're the one. Your conscious mind is what's feeding it that input so that you're thinking about all the reasons life sucks. And as you're going throughout your day like this happened, well, that's because life sucks. And this everything's just added proof because you're focused on it, and your thoughts in your mind becomes it. And then when you're presented with an opportunity, he'll think, Why bother Life socks and you don't take the opportunity. So there's your actions, and that's gonna feed your results, which is you're gonna have a sucky life. On the contrary, if you're telling yourself life is wonderful, it's beautiful. And as you're driving to work, if you're telling yourself life is wonderful, you're gonna say, Oh wow, look at how the how beautiful the clouds are today or I really love this song that just came on the radio. Wow, the fresh air is amazing. It's a beautiful day or it. So it's a little bit cold. I'm enjoying feeling with the chili sensation or the warmth of my A C or the heat as it's warming up my hands. Just little things that you can focus on that are added Joy's. That's where your focus is. Your focus is on with all the reasons that life is wonderful and then that becomes your reality. So you you just have to go dial down to the core, which is focus. And then everything else stems from there.

spk_1:   44:47
Yeah, and that's That's what I really liked about. My experiences with Psychedelics is like one I like that it doesn't It's not something where I was like, Man, I can't wait to do that again tomorrow, you know, like it's a very self regulating tool, like it is not something that you feel like doing every day, and it's not because it's bad, but it's like you gotta analyze everything you just experienced for a while because time is not the same. You are having many, many, many experiences in a very brief amount of time. And then after your trip, you remember all of it in crisp fucking detail. So, like there's there's a lot of work that goes into kind of sorting through everything through. So I love that, and I also love that I felt brief from a lot of my bullshit, a lot of the stuff that I've kind of collected from my external life. I started to see because it was connecting me to me. I started to see that I didn't have to hold on to all of that That, like, if I could feel good in this moment right now, this is something I can get to you. I know it's not just because I was tripping cause it was me. It wasn't the drugs, the drugs helping me connect to me. So I was. I remember after my best trip, like the most profound one that we talked about coming out of that and being like, Holy fuck, I'm nothing. I'm everything. But I'm nothing and not in a nihilistic like everything sucks kind of way, but in like a I'm not a person who has depression and anxiety, insomnia. I'm not a person who hates myself. I'm not this person who I believed I was based on all my circumstances to that point, I'm kind of a blank slate, and if I work hard, I can Yeah, I can choose who I am every second of every day. It's just it takes a little work to get there, whether you use drugs or not

spk_0:   46:43
in ah, Buddhism, they call that Shin Yata, it's called empty means emptiness, But the idea is not empty with a negative connotation. It's like you were saying you're an empty vessel, and since the self who you are as a human being is fluid, meaning it can change in any moment, it takes on the shape of the vessel that you give it. So you're empty in the sense that you can fill yourself with whichever you you decided to be. Um, I give the example. I like to give the example of a water bottle versus a coffee mug, two completely different shapes. But if you believe yourself to be the coffee mug and everything you've done in your life from the time you were born until now has solidified that and continues to perpetuate the coffee mug on and you don't believe you could be the water bottle because you think your coffee mug, you're actually just the coffee inside of it. If you have this new idea for who you want to be, you want to be the water bottle, and you just pour the liquid from the coffee mug into the water bottle, and you just have to keep perpetuating that form. But if you decide the next day to go back and told habits because it's easier because you're comfortable and familiar with being a coffee mug. You might find yourself being the coffee mug again the next day. It's just what your willpower and you are believing yourself will allow you to do

spk_1:   47:56
and the effort like like you talked about. There is some work that goes into it because we can. We can know that we are empty, so to speak, that were kind of a blank slate, but also accept that our brains have some routines that they're used to. Our bodies have some muscle memory. Our brains have. You know, these behavioral patterns and things so you can make the choice in this moment to say, like I am a confident person. I am a person who gets shit done. I am a person who exercises every day, like whatever it is you want to tell yourself. You are doing the first of many steps towards actually becoming that person, and some of those steps are going to involve you trying to outsmart your automatic processes. If you know that you tend to have certain thought patterns when you do certain things, you may have to use some affirmations or do some body work even to kind of change that. You know, you have some habits you are battling something that has already established. But it doesn't mean you can't create something else. It's just gonna take that work in that routine and that that deliberate effort to start creating new patterns that eventually will become automatic

spk_0:   49:03
mindfulness and meditation will allow you to turn back to that fluid state where you can choose to bring out anything in the given moment. Creating new habits is so that when you're not in a mindful state, you when you're going on autopilot, you operate differently than you had previously. But if you're mindful, then you're being responsive instead of reactive, the more you consciously are responsive person. In any situation, you're going to create new reactionary habits. But the point is the only thing you really need to be diligent about, because it sounds like a lot of work redoing all these habits, you're not really the only thing you need to be diligent about is being mindful. And if you can be present minded in any situation than it no longer feels like work because you're being responsive, you're the ball is in your hands and you have control over it. You're not just reacting.

spk_1:   49:53
I talk about this all the time because it really it is a simple concept that can be challenging, but it's not impossible for anyone. Um, like, that is what has allowed me to separate myself from my anger, anxiety, depression, all that, like meditation and mindfulness, showing me that those thoughts weren't coming from me and then giving me the opportunity to see them when they first pop up versus seeing them. After I've already gone down this path. And now I'm angry, agitated, anxious. Whatever. Once I start identifying with it, it's a different action I have to take to get out of it. But if I see the first anxious thought in my mind, and I can look at it and say, where'd that come from? Okay, so this situation is causing some things that would trigger an anxious response in my body. I don't feel like being anxious right now, So now that I see this first anxious thought, I'm going to take some action. I'm gonna stretch. I'm gonna take some deep breaths. I'm gonna replace that anxious thought with an empowering thought. Whatever. And I do the same thing with my anger. I don't I used to not know I was angry until my body was already angry. And then my mind was just catching up. You know, I would get really tense. I would feel my jaw clenching my back, tightening my fists tightening sometimes. And then the angry thoughts would suddenly become a parent. Would be like, Yeah, fuck this. Fuck that. Fuck everything. Fuck you, your fucking family. Like fuck everything. Now I see the first angry thought Come in and I start asking questions about it. Like, what is the deal that? Do I Am I actually angry, or am I just a little frustrated and my feelings dressed in my feeling overwhelmed and then again, like it gives me that opportunity to be proactive instead of reactive. So, like initially, it was kind of a split after I first started the meditation and mindfulness like I would usually catch some of these thoughts and feelings. Like what? I was already partially experiencing them lately. It's like a whole new level. Dude, I can't tell you the last time that I felt anxious or felt angry or really felt anything other than what I wanted to feel in that moment. I see the stuff. I do something in my body in my mind to change it. And then I move on with my day and it is so fucking freeing, so freeing.

spk_0:   52:07
It's basically you're setting. You basically setting your mind like a little alarm that catches you on your own. Bullshit. When you when you start going down these negative pathways, sometimes you're aware of it and you ignore it because you're like I screw it. I just want to be angry right now, and that's unhealthy.

spk_1:   52:26
Feels good in the moment because

spk_0:   52:29
you feel like you. Yeah, that's one way of releasing it. But that's also the path to be to becoming your anger or your lesser emotions. So you were saying you are now a person who has an anxious feeling or an anxious thought or a person who has an angry thought, an angry feeling rather than becoming the anger or becoming an angry person and ah, one really good exercise for Externalizing your emotions is imagined that their of row of babies, all with different names anxiety, depression, anger, whatever it. The negative emotions are the names of the babies. When one starts acting up in crying, you just physically imagine yourself saying, What's wrong, baby? Why are you crying, picking it up and consoling it? It's a way of you taking your emotions outside of yourself and then talking yourself through it so that you can talk yourself down and control it and and quiet the baby

spk_1:   53:19
coming down.

spk_0:   53:20

spk_1:   53:21
yeah, it's that separation. When you when you start to see that you aren't your emotions, you are having them. If you're connecting to them, you're maybe identifying with them. But you don't have to like it gives you a whole new level of control,

spk_0:   53:36
right? And like you said when you first tripped and you realized that you didn't have all that bullshit, the anxiety, the anger, all of those things that you were an empty vessel, that you were nothing and everything, Um, that was basically you realizing that in the moment none of that is here unless you bring it here. So all of your past, anything that you're that brings you down, you're less herself is what they called in Buddhism. It's called Mara. You're less herself. Any time that surfaces, you're less herself surfaces. It's you causing it to surface. We like toe deflect the blame on other people. My sister made me angry. I

spk_1:   54:19
came to my mind to

spk_0:   54:21
wait. Instead of deflecting your bullshit, you have to take accountability for the fact that you're allowing people to influence your own internal ecosystem. You're

spk_1:   54:29
ruined my day like no dude, you will

spk_0:   54:32
ruin your ruined Exactly.

spk_1:   54:34
You know, maybe if subconscious. But it was you.

spk_0:   54:38
Exactly. My boss was being an asshole today, so my day sucked. Well, your boss might have been being an asshole. But you're the one who allowed it to ruin your own day. By the way that you internalized it. He was an asshole. So then you were spiteful in the way that you were working. And then you end up having an argument with him. And then your entire day was spent brooding, he laughing and

spk_1:   54:56
personally. What

spk_0:   54:57
personally You're no longer talk. He went back to his office and you sat there seething and thinking about it. Even though it's no longer present or there you perpetuate Thea the situation when you decide to internalize harp brood on things and you have control toe. Let it go. That print is a new present moment.

spk_1:   55:17
This is one of the things that I find, um, really fascinating, I guess. Like, and please understand folks that are listening like we're not trying to downplay some serious things that a lot of you are battling, You know, we know that it's not always just a simple path forward. But even for those of you who are battling, you know, chemical, chemical imbalance, PTSD, things like that. There are still things that you conduce do that maybe you have a slightly higher hill to climb to get there. But it still gets you closer, right? Like this is this meditative mindfulness practice. All these little things you can do for your mind and body, they could make a massive impact in your life. So we're not trying. Thio blame you for the feelings that you haven't really controlled up until this point. Rather, we're trying to help encourage you to see that you have way more control than you may have been led to believe that this at this point from and when it comes to anger, especially in anger towards other people. A friend of mine gave me this quote a while ago, and I've had it pinned on my desktop since. Because now, you know, having separated myself from it, it almost seems silly to me that anyone else has the ability to impact my day Because people being dicks like that's no surprise, right? Like this. This shouldn't be a shocker to us. We want people to be nice to us. We're nice to them a lot of times, but we know that there are dicks. We know that there are people who are rude and ungrateful and unkind. We know we're likely to encounter these people. And like, if your boss is an asshole and has been since the day you started, if your asshole boss ruined your day, it's not your asshole Bosses fault. You knew this whole fucking time here, boss was an asshole. You're your reactions could change if you kind of acknowledge that and recognise it's not about you. So my favorite quote is when you wake up in the morning, tell yourself the people I deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous and surly. None of them can hurt me. I think about this all the fucking time. I know what to expect in the outside world. I know what to expect. Some people are gonna be amazing and beautiful and loving and kind. Some people are gonna be assholes, but none of this is a surprise. So if I get upset from this thing I knew was gonna happen, it's my fucking fault. It's something I should work on.

spk_0:   57:39
I think it's also really important to note that we've all been assholes at certain points in our lives. And the reason that some people are majorly assholes in most situations is because of their negative habits of thought. So it's really important to be understanding when people are saying things to you. There's two ways to take them. There's above the words and beneath the words above the words, you take what they say, its surface value and then you respond or react to it at service level. Beneath the words is your understanding the intent of why they're saying it and then you can respond to the intent. So the example that I like to give is like a mother is telling your son that she wants to go to work. She was, She's a nurse and she works a lot of doubles and overnight shifts and he says, Mom, let's go to the Can we go to the park today? And she says, Sorry, I can't. I have to work and he's like, You never spend time with me. I hate you. And storms often slams his door. If she responds to above the words, she might say, You want grateful little shit. How dare you? I'm going to work so that I can support you. You're grounded, get and it turns into a conflict, a screaming match that she leaves the kids angry and upset. And then she's pissed off at work. And then that might carry through tow. The rest of her day, she might snapped her co workers, and then everything ends up being shitty. Instead, if she decides to respond and realize, Oh, he actually just wants to spend time with me. And what he's saying is coming from a place of hurt, but also from a place of love. It's a kid, you know, like he shouldn't say that you can respond with understanding and say, I'm sorry that I can't spend time with you. I really want Thio. Unfortunately, have to do this for money. You sit down and explain it to him. Say I'm free on Saturday. Let's go to the movies and that little fight doesn't happen because you're responding with understanding. And then he has a good day. He feels better. She has a good day and then they can spend time together. And there's no added conflict. Granted, that's not easy. It's not easy to see the beneath the words in every situation, like if your boss is being a dick about a report or something that you're getting done. Maybe he had a really bad fight with his spouse at home or his kids are going to college and he can't afford to, ah, to pay for it. Or he's worried about losing his job, and he's putting pressure on you because he doesn't want to lose his job. So he wants is his, um, these people to perform, You know,

spk_1:   59:59
maybe he has a perfect life, but he has been raised around assholes and just doesn't know any better. He's never been around someone who effectively and kindly communicates. So that's the only thing he's known, you know, like

spk_0:   1:0:11
a lot of them is the negative. It's

spk_1:   1:0:13
Yeah, it's just not that big of a deal. It's not something that's worth taking personal, and that's that's like the biggest thing is, you know, the ego wants to make everything about you. So when someone does something, it's like, Oh, they don't respect me They don't appreciate me They think I suck and they're assholes for thinking that. But when you kind of take yourself out of it and see the person, things start to click a little bit more.

spk_0:   1:0:38
One thing that you said before was, ah, that it's not your fault And we're not saying that anybody listening is a bad person for thinking this way or that. We're better because we are able to kind of assess ourselves in a situation that's not the point. The point is that we're not taught from an early age how to think about what we're thinking about, so we're kind of going on autopilot and naturally were predisposed to jump to the worst case scenario. It thousands of years ago, fighter flight was was existence. It was hunting you. We were hunter gatherers and If you go out the hunt, there's a rustle in the bushes and your brains immediately jumping Thio. What is that? Can that kill me? Can I fight it? Should I run? You're jumping the worst case scenario because it's a survival instinct. Nowadays, in society, we don't have to worry about physical survival In most First World countries, our survival is based on our mentality. Our ability to work and provide and be ableto thrive socially as well as monetarily. So all of these things that were saying jumping to worst case scenario, it's a survival instinct when you apply it to society creates a bunch of bad habits of response and negative emotions within yourself. So it's really important to just realize that we when you go on autopilot when you don't think about what you're thinking about, you reinforce those negative habits. And if you're not aware or mindful of those thoughts, you'll never be able to rewrite them. So you might have gone 25 years, 30 years, 40 years without ever having that conversation. And the longer you go without having those conversations inside, the stronger those bad habits are. So once you start taking that path to changing yourself and bettering yourself. You'll start to see other people that just aren't as far along as you, so you can't get mad at them for that. If your boss has never had a conversation like that inside, then you no wonder he's all pissed off and upset. He's never taken a second to relax. He's never taken a second to step out of his negative emotions out of his stress. And he's just perpetuating that. So

spk_1:   1:2:44
we talk about that all the time, like if you if you aren't deliberately creating your thoughts and your actions, then it's very likely that someone else I'II like your upbringing, your surroundings, your external life to this point have done that for you. Absolutely. And I don't want that. Fuck that.

spk_0:   1:3:05
No, thank you, Yeah,

spk_1:   1:3:07
especially like you were saying. Like we we do have a negative bias, but it is something that even that bias can be changed. There's a lot more we can do for our minds and bodies than think we fully get, and I I think one of the best things like you were saying it. It doesn't make you want to look down on others who don't like, you know, have that control or that that insight into themselves. Yet it just kind of makes you feel bad, like, Man, I know how that feels. Maybe I didn't act the way that you acted, but, like, I know how that feels. That's why we stopped being mean to trolls that come in to chat because I haven't gone around and said nasty shit like that. Someone else doesn't mean that in in my past, I haven't been a dick when it wasn't warranted that I haven't reacted to something in a way that was unkind or not helpful. So now when I see people doing this, I just think like men. I know my life wasn't necessarily like, easy. It wasn't the hardest thing or anything like, I'm a very grateful person. But with all the shit I've been through, I would never have thought to treat another person this way. What kind of life have you led? Like what? What brought you to this point where this seems like an acceptable way to handle whatever's going on in your mind right now? And then it just it makes me feel sad.

spk_0:   1:4:22
Yeah, and it should because you're empathizing with people because you can understand where they're coming from. And even if you didn't react the exact same way, I like to think that on Twitter, especially. Ah, lot of the trolls are just younger, the immature, and they don't know they think it's either funny or they don't mean the things they're saying. But what you're saying is responding to it with beneath the words instead of above the words somebody says, Hey, you stupid asshole and chat and you're like Why you called me a stupid asshole? Fuck you, You're an asshole.

spk_1:   1:4:53

spk_0:   1:4:53
it's Instead, you're like this guy's just trying to get a reaction out of me. We've all been dickhead kids, too. If you think about it, I really, really realize this. When I saw my 12 year old cousin at a family party and he was telling me about Twitch that he watches, twitch, any plays, video games and he started, he found out that I stream to start coming around my chat room and the way that he talks in my chat. I'm like, Oh, he talks just like every other idiot troll that Iben they're all probably actually literally 12 years old or young kids, and they're probably sitting in discord like let's try and make. They don't have a connection with you as a person. They don't see you as a person. They see you as entertainment, and if they're not a part of your community that we go, let's just try and make each other laugh. I'm gonna Hey, Johnny, watch. I'm gonna call this person a slut and see how she reacts.

spk_1:   1:5:40
And then, oh, no reaction. Let's let

spk_0:   1:5:42
no reaction That's

spk_1:   1:5:42
takes a little bit of

spk_0:   1:5:44
the stakes or go on to the next person who gives us a reaction. And then that's what they say. Don't feed the trolls, but when you feed into that, you're content becomes about them. You're giving them the attention that they seek. And no matter what reaction you give, it's what they were looking for. So it's not always as malicious as you think it as it sounds. Sometimes they're just trying to get a giggle, and it's not the right way to go about it. But sometimes we can disassociate ourselves from our humanity when that person isn't right in front of us. There on a TV screen. They're not a real person to us. They're not in our real social circle, Justin.

spk_1:   1:6:18
It's interesting entertainment. We just in check because you know, we watch a Ted talk together every day. We watched its head talk recently. The talked about, um, the teenage mind and like the adolescent mind growing up. And there are certain things that until like your, um, like your frontal lobe and a lot of the areas involved in, like cognition are fully developed, it is literally harder for kids and teens to see from someone else's perspective, like it is a massive challenge for them because their brains aren't quite wired for it yet. So that was kind of interesting to me that, you know, it's like when you're really, really little. And you're like, What is it like under five, like you are on the phone with someone and you don't realize that they don't see what you see. So, like, you're a little kid talking to like your grand parents on the phone and you're pointing at stuff around your life, knowing, yeah, you're not knowing that they don't they don't see what you're pointing at. It's kind of the same thing with like like adolescents in general, their their fear and like the amygdala, is apparently like way more in control, and they just struggle to understand things from outside perspectives. Everything is very like, kind of egocentric at that point. So I thought that was kind of interesting because it gave me some insight into, like, how to break things down a little bit, like some trolls that come in. We I think I think we do need to stop generalizing that they're all like the majority of our kids because there are so in the military do this. But it is very evident. I think when their Children are kids, their teens doing this because they kind of use certain language. They say certain things, But like I've started coming, like approaching those with an educational perspective or or or standpoint like Hey, so here's the deal. I get what you're trying to do here. You're getting attention. You're trying to get a laugh, but let me explain really quickly why joking about something like this is very damaging and very harmful, and then we'll have a little talk like, you know, coming in and saying gross sexual stuff to a woman online. This is directly contributing to less women wanting to be online. The stats about like, um, you know, sexual assault and rape and things like that. They're very high and very scary is, though, if you think about the idea that, like one in five of these women who you come online to say nasty shit, Thio may have experienced something traumatic in their daily lives that now you've said this words of them that you thought was funny and they are locked in their trauma for the rest of the day, like this is not something anyone deserves. Can you see that? And we'll kind of converse about it. I've had a lot of younger kids apologize, which is great, and see that that's not really the way to go about it. Like, you know, you could have gotten attention by just saying, Hey, how's your day going? We would have paid attention to you. You don't have to go this route

spk_0:   1:8:57
exactly. It's like the little kid lashing out for attention when they're younger. Some people never grow out of them and manifest itself in different forms as you get older.

spk_1:   1:9:06

spk_0:   1:9:07
it's not necessarily throwing a tantrum in the supermarket, but it's the same thing. Yeah, one thing that's also important to recognize is that a lot of people who are being shit heads when they're younger or not, even necessarily when they're younger. At some point in life, we almost need to experience suffering in life and the wrong way of living in order to use it as fuel to grow. In Buddhism, the concept of suffering is is legitimately fuel for enlightenment. They use it. Ah, the analogy that they use is it's almost like the headwinds on a point. The stronger the headwinds it is, the easier it is for the plane to take off when you decide to take flight. So the more suffering you have, the more negative emotions you've had and the more you've embodied that throughout your life. When you make the conscious decision an effort to try and better yourself and strive for enlightenment and peace and mindfulness, the more you're gonna feel it, the more impactful it will be. And the more experience you have to draw on when you decide to make that change, so it will be actually easier later on.

spk_1:   1:10:15
Yeah. And, uh, I mean, I talk about this with a lot of people who I know have kind of suffered as well. Like the upside, if you would like to attach one to some of the shit that you've been through is you learn a lot about yourself. And I think it can really help you to relate to others. Because you can remember those days where you looked fine, where you went through your day and, you know, converse with people as normal. Everyone probably would have described you as a happy person that day. But internally, you were falling apart. You were hating yourself. You were lonely. You were angry or sad, whatever. Like if you can remember what it feels like to be in that moment and know that like no one else sees it, I think it's it makes you want to let other people know that you see them too. You know, like I get it. Dude, you're lonely. You're angry. You're sad. Whatever it is you're feeling. I understand. Like I've been there, I felt lost. I've felt miserable, but this is not gonna help you move forward at all.

spk_0:   1:11:13
We just want to be heard honestly, as human beings we want to feel listened to. We want to feel understood. But we don't always want to say what it is that we're feeling. Nor do we always know what it is they were feeling. So if you do approach not only your own self talking your own internal ecosystem with understanding but then if you approach your conversations in your social interactions with that same level of thought, you're gonna, like attract so many positive people to you and you're going to make such a difference in your own universe. Think about if you were feeling that one of your worst days ever you're feeling terrible within, but you're not lashing out. You're just trying to go through about your day and you say something to someone or you're a little bit confrontational, argumentative, and they stop for a second and they say something that diffuses it. I don't know if you've ever had this before, but I've had this with my sister a lot because we argue quite a bit. And usually it comes from the fact that she is not in a great mental state. She's She's pissed off at something, and she's got a lot better this. She's been going to therapy for a few years, so she's more self aware. So recently, when we go to argue, she'll stop for a second and she'll say something almost kind or something that diffuses the situation because she realizes that I'm arguing cause I'm not in a good mental state like I might have just lost the tournament or something like that. And then she goes to provoke me, and I'm just like, you know what? I'm sorry. I didn't I didn't mean to have it come across that way. I'm just upset and she takes accountability for her own actions and her own contributing to this. And I'm like, You know, it's fine, It's fine. Let's just move along with our day. So something that normally would have turned into a fight that would have lasted the entire night. She diffuses it and because she understands that I'm not in a great mood and she's also not in a great mood.

spk_1:   1:12:57
Yeah, man, it's so helpful. So going back to what? What we started talking about when we started this podcast. Um, what would you say are the first of all. Are there any other moments during your trip that you want to kind of point out because they were interesting or fascinating or whatever?

spk_0:   1:13:16
Um, I think that it's okay. I don't really remember this too vividly, but I remember looking at your table like the coffee table, and I just remember seeing it. And it looks, I guess, so different. Just the I guess the way the light was heading in that it felt like it was an alternate universe almost. And I looked around the room where everybody was positioned, and it kind of just made me think of the idea of, like, time and timelines and that this could be happening in an infinite number of universes. And what I'm taking from it could be completely different. Who I'm experiencing with could be completely different. Um, and it also got, like, drew my attention to the fact that time might not be linear, like we experience it. Something felt somehow familiar, almost as if I had experienced it before. But I knew that this was my first time ever doing mushrooms. Um, so it kind of just really got my mind going down that path of what's possible, the realm of possibility. And what is the nature of the universe that we that we live in? And, uh, I remember you said that you felt like you had lived multiple different lifetimes and that we're all kind of the same person. And it got me thinking about the idea of the oneness of the universe. And, um, remember explaining this to my friend pole when I came home because I was telling him about my experience. And it made me think that you know how when you experience pain like physical pain, its signal to your brain, all that pain really is saying This is bad for you. Don't do this. And it's a neurological signal. It's not an actual physical thing. It's just your brain saying this is bad. Yeah, negative emotions are similar in that regard. They're telling us that we're doing something wrong emotionally, Um, that this is bad for us or that this is incorrect. So I got to thinking about the feeling of loneliness, and when you're feeling lonely, it stems from a couple of things. It stems from the fact that we all were social creatures and we we crave attention, and we crave being around other people. But why is that? And I think the reason for it. The reason you have emotional pain associate with loneliness is because we are all connected when you think about. If there's a shared consciousness, um, between all things and if all time lines exist that the exact same time, it's just we experienced them linearly, Um, and everything is connected then. Loneliness is a deviation from the path because it's a brain telling us this is wrong. This is incorrect. We're not lonely. You're connected. So you're lying to yourself almost the same way that when you're perpetuating your own depression or anxiety, those feelings worsened because you're going, you're resisting your own internal compass, telling you go the other way. Yes, is bad. This is and you know you're doing it. So when you embrace that loneliness, you're telling yourself untruth your tell yourself a lie. It's You're connected with all people, your consciousness, a shared with all things. So you're never truly lonely. Even when you're physically alone, you're not actually alone. Yeah, So that was one thing that kind of stood out to me, um is the idea that at any given moment I can shut my eyes, meditate and feel connected. Yeah, They brought me back to also Neil DeGrasse Tyson talking about how we're stardust and

spk_1:   1:16:36
yeah, we are.

spk_0:   1:16:37
We're start us do at a very physical riel level. We are made from the same atoms that were created in forged inside of sons that were president the beginning of time and have been recycled matter throughout all of time. So the atoms in your hand existed not only in a son in a star billions of years ago, but they also were recycled. They've been plants, They've been dirt. They've been cows, They've been dinosaurs. They've been parts of all things. And we're physically connected to the universe. In that regard, the most powerful source of light and energy in the entire universe are stars and were made from matter that was forged inside of them. So we are physically powerful, energetic sources, and we are lights in our own individual worlds. Yeah, if we choose to be,

spk_1:   1:17:29
I love I love thinking in those terms and thinking about how, like we like to believe that we are us like We're just this, like head to toe package this body in this mind inside of this body. And then when you kind of start separating yourself from that a little bit, it's so freeing. Like when you think, like, am I a collection of cells or am I a person or am I the United States? Or am I this big landmass? Am I the Earth? Am I this Galaxy like we're so connected to all of it and we think ourselves separate from it. But the further you dig down, the more you see that, it's kind of like just closely packed shit. It's not like we're actually this totally separate thing. We're still so connected and so reliant upon these things around us. I think it's really exciting. Thio kind of stop thinking about yourself in terms of just you in your body in your mind and start thinking about how connected you really are to everything and tripping like that. Really, it's not even just something you're thinking about. It's something that you feel field experience so strongly, and that's I think one of the things I love the most about it is that some of these things we talk about that we know. Deep down, we feel we don't don't pay attention to the feeling We pay attention with words, and when you're tripping, it's like the opposite. You say very little like if you if you remember that the amount of actual converse thing that you do like if you're around other people who are tripping It's not a lot because you recognize the things that don't need to be said because we all feel it and you recognize when other people are kind of feeling similar things. So the amount of times I've like looked over at someone who is tripping, made eye contact, and then both of us just start smiling and nodding like You know exactly what they're feeling. There's no need for words. Words just do not do justice like they don't They don't explain the stuff we're actually like feeling in their minds.

spk_0:   1:19:26
It's because, well, cool the information that we already know those subconscious signals that were getting. But we normally ignore or they're not strong enough to make it to the surface of our conscious mind. Their present there right there were feeling them, but yeah, so tripping and it made basically made me realize that, um, like, you were just saying how we're all connected and we're all small. But like we're more than just a collection of cells to expand on that we are the universe experiencing itself. We are all the cells of the body that makes up the universe. So if you think about it, each of ourselves is individually a cell. But if you think about your body, I am me. But I couldn't be me without billions and trillions of individual cells that don't exist outside of me. So am I. Me or marry those cells. What is me, you know?

spk_1:   1:20:17
Yeah. And even going into consciousness, the what is me is fascinating because people try to determine where that consciousness comes from. And like like, if you have, like, a brain transplant like, is it still you? Are you a different person? Are you that brain? What happens if you just take parts of the brain out? But like your neurons are all firing in the same manner cruelly creating your conscious existence? Like which of it is you? You?

spk_0:   1:20:44
Is there something intangible occupying that? That mind that's controlling it. But just just as there are cells that make up your your human body and you are not yourselves but yourselves heir, not you, you're both one of the same. We are the cells that make up the universe, and the universe exists because of the cells. The cells exist because of the universe. So we are the universe. And it's so much better to approach your day with that level of thinking because think about the potential that you're going to be ableto dig down deep down and bring out of yourself as opposed to you going through your day telling yourself you're just a bag of bones doomed to die and decay one day.

spk_1:   1:21:20
Exactly. Yeah, you know, I love that, Um, I think it was Helen Watts who says the same kind of thing about the universe and like us being all interconnected, Um, I'm fairly certain it was him who basically said, like, we're all the same source of energy, just dancing for itself. And the more I thought about that, like while I was tripping, the more I really felt it. Like Holy shit, we are all one in such an insanely profound way. Yet we limit and and distinguish ourselves in these very unhelpful ways.

spk_0:   1:21:56
You know, like when you just said that it kind of just clicked with me where there was, like, I guess, a level of stress. Almost like your attention in the back of my head. That just was completely alleviated when you said that We're just, uh, the universe world dancing for ourselves. We're all energy just dancing for ourselves. Um, it's the same feeling that I get when I exercise after I haven't worked out in a while where you're just doing it and your body and your mind just deep down to just nod their heads and are like, Yes, this is what I should be doing. This is the right thing. This is healthy for me. There's literally no downside to this same thing, feeling that I get when I meditate. It's when you just realize that something is just so true that there's no way that you can argue it inside and you just feel healthier and better and calm because you're going with the flow of the universe Here, you're sinking back up with that dance. Yeah, You know,

spk_1:   1:22:48
exactly. You're just You're just letting yourself be a part of it and not being too upset if you dance a certain way or another. Like the whole dance itself is beautiful and it's it's interesting and it's worth paying attention to with a very open kind of happy, joyful mind.

spk_0:   1:23:07
Do you remember when I first started tripping the second day or the first day? Maybe was that I said, uh that I felt like there was a song toe life like t the universe like that Everything's operating base and you told me that you felt like everything's very mechanical. Almost that universe operates to a certain cadence.

spk_1:   1:23:27
And that was when I started telling you you needed to play the game everything.

spk_0:   1:23:30
Yes, yeah, yeah, which was a great game. I was thinking about that the entire time. You're just saying that, but I kind of felt that way when the second day, when I saw, um, the lights on your ceiling. We're kind of like dancing to the to the individuals that were on the screen, the moving art. And it was because, you know, if it's blue, then there's blue light on the ceiling. It was just coming off of the TV. But the way that it was moving, it was moving with the music. It seemed, uh, and it was just very interesting to be so in tuned with what's around you that you see that there is a cadence and there is a flow and everything's moving at the right time and you feel stressed or like you're meeting resistance if you're out of sync with that, so if you're not drawing attention to it, it's almost like playing a baseball game. But you don't know the rules of baseball's like you hit the ball and then you start running left instead of right and everybody's the crowd's yelling at you. Your team's yelling and you have no idea why. You have no idea what's happened. People are throwing stuff at you. You have no idea what's going on because you don't know the rules of the game and you meditate. You learn mindfulness and present mindedness, and you open yourself up to the universe. It then opens itself up to you and you can learn the rules and they play by the rules and operate in a way that's healthy and the path of least resistance. But That doesn't mean that you don't have to grow in order to get their resistance is necessary for growth in any aspect of life. You need physical resistance to build physical strength. That's what working out of the gym is. You need mental resistance, emotional resistance to grow mentally and emotionally. But once you get past that, once you grow and you build that strength, if you operate by the rules that are given to you or that you learn along the way, you're gonna be very, uh, well suited to succeed in life.

spk_1:   1:25:13
Yeah, and I think I think that, like, kind of machine like feel, um, like if if there is such a thing as like an organic machine, that's kind of what it feels like when you're when you're seeing everything like that, when you kind of see the way that things ebb and flow, it's it's very encouraging because then you start seeing like seeing things without your own subjectivity on it. It's like, yeah, things that I don't like are gonna happen. Everyday things that I do like are gonna happen every day, like none of this is something that's worth taking personally and like the idea of having like really bad luck, for example, like we joke about that sometimes. But some people really believe that that, like everything, is out to get them instead of just thinking like these are just things that happen. They're just things that happen to any and all of us. We all have things that we don't like. We will all have beautiful days and tough days, but like your focus is such an important part of that and not taking it personally. Like if you have a string of bad luck, it's just it is what it is. It's just things that happened. It's not things that happened deliberately to you. It's just the way this machine works. That's just going through all these different patterns.

spk_0:   1:26:23
Life isn't fair. Life is an unfair. It just is, and then we choose to make of it what we can. But that becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. What we were just talking about before, if you think that you have bad luck and you convince yourself of it and you tell yourself you have bad luck, then where's your focus? You're focused on that. Things were gonna go poorly for you. So then,

spk_1:   1:26:40
you know,

spk_0:   1:26:41
you're always looking at the negative, and then things are going to go poorly for you, and you're never gonna be able to see the door of opportunity right in front of you. You'll never be able to walk through that if you're if you're focused on it. Um, well, there was one other thing I just want to say with that. Oh, train of thought. Come back. Um, self fulfilling prophecy. Anyways, if you've got something to add on to that, I'll circle back in a second.

spk_1:   1:27:03
Usually, if you let go of it, it'll return to, you know, um you know, honestly, that's that's really it's just I really love all of the insight that I gained from tripping, but kind of like we were saying earlier. I think there's a major value there in the fact that it could be kind of you'd almost like as like, a steroid. But for your mindfulness practice, if you go into it with that idea, like I'm gonna use this to connect to myself, whatever that means for me, I think there's a lot to be gained. But if the idea of doing it it's still scary. Everything we gained from it is stuff that you can gain from your mindfulness or meditative practices. Like as many things as you can do. Focus on yourself. The real you focused on creating yourself and your life like it is so empowering and so freeing. And this is something that is totally feasible for anyone and everyone. And that's like, That's why my message has shifted so much because you've been around since the beginning. Like, you know, I was a very angry person, even if

spk_0:   1:28:07
they don't

spk_1:   1:28:07
always show it. And now, like I wake up every morning feeling good, I actually get sleep at night like I never would have thought I could feel this way. I really didn't believe it was possible. And now I'm just trying to make sure people know like I am not an atypical, um, like response to this, like this is common. People choose to focus inward and suddenly their lives change like this has happened to so many fucking people. So if out of this podcast you don't have an immediate urge to go, you know, try psychedelics. Dope? Not what were you were really going for? It's more just like this can be a good tool for that. But even if you choose not to use this tool, there are a 1,000,000 other tools you can use.

spk_0:   1:28:50
And if you've never meditated before, I don't recommend doing psychedelics just yet. I think that agreements eso just a disclaimer. I've been meditating for years. I'm 26. I learned about meditation when I was 17. I graduate high school. I was miserable. I was depressed, Um, anxious. I never went to the doctor for it or was diagnosed. Technically, I was diagnosed clinically like years later when I was actually, uh, I went to the for a physical and my doctor was like, here, fill out this this test to see if you have depression. And I had been meditating and battling my depression for years now. I knew I had a grip on it. I wasn't in a bad place, But answer the questions honestly. Based on how I felt, I was diagnosed with depression and he tried to give me ah, antidepressants, and I actually ended up having a kind of deep conversation with him and and the nurse and telling him about, like, my mindfulness and stuff. I kind of talked myself out of my funk in that moment, just kind of drawing my attention, attention back to being mindful. And he was like, Okay, well, yeah, You know what? They're there if you want him, But don't take him. And then as I was leaving, the nurse came up to me and asked me to recommend her some books on a positive mentality and like psychology and things like that. So I thought that was hilarious, that I was diagnosed with depression and then was asked for advice on mindfulness and positivity as I was leaving. But anyway, I've been meditating was like 17 and it was quite a struggle for me at first. When I first found it, it was euphoric. It was new on Guy was riding this like, high of living differently. And then you realized that you need to start applying those things, or else old habits will creep back in. And I went there a couple a couple of cycles of, um, mindfulness and and meditation and euphoria and positivity and happiness, and then cycled back to some depression and anxiety and all those things. They surfaced again, but it was never as bad as it was originally. And I got better and better at catching myself and not letting myself live and wallow in that for extended periods of time. And now it went from spending weeks or months on end in that negative mindset. Before I'd catch myself. Two days, two hours, two minutes. And now I'm at the point where again, like you were saying, If you catch yourself with that inkling of a thought that's gonna send you down that path, you stop yourself and then you circle back and you change the way that you're thinking. So that ability is so crucial. If you're gonna be using second Alex because your your mind could wander, and if you don't stop it and you're not aware of it, you might experience something that you don't want to experience. Might have a very negative, um, experience with that.

spk_1:   1:31:23
Yeah, totally. A lot of people who consider themselves psycho nuts, um, would say, like no trip is a bad trip because you're still learning about yourself in the process. But there are some that I could see being scary if you don't know that like you have the option to change it, you know? So I agree. That's why I, like, was so militant about. Like, do make sure you stick to your meditation because meditation gives you such immense power in your mind if you learn how to apply it, at least so like having that ability to when you start to feel, feel yourself going to a place where you're like, Oh, I don't really like this. This feels weird to be able to be like, Okay, I'm gonna focus on my breathing again, and then it goes away and then you're on to the next experience like it is. It makes it a much different experience for

spk_0:   1:32:10
straps woo. If you've never meditated before, just at least spend, you know, maybe a month, two months, just practicing it a couple minutes a day. And so many people tell me that they can't meditate or they're just I've tried it and it's just not for me. Those are the people who need to do with the most.

spk_1:   1:32:26

spk_0:   1:32:28
Nobody starts out good at meditation. It's a it's a training exercise and focus. And then you're just focusing on one thing. Your breath there many different types of meditation, but that's core meditation and all your

spk_1:   1:32:40
mindfulness medicine.

spk_0:   1:32:41
Mindfulness meditation. Yes, you're just focusing on your breath in order to clear your mind. And that's a training exercise and focus so that you can shift your focus off of all the bullshit that's going on in the back of your head and clear it out so you can focus on one singular thing. Um, that's really important. And it's like going if you go to the gym, for I always give this parallel cause physical and metaphysical world parallel each other perfectly. But if you go to the gym and you slap on £300 on the bench press and you try and lift it the first day that you're in the gym, you're gonna get crushed by those weights. You need to start at what you can manage. If you can only keep your focus for 5 10 seconds at a time before you wander. That's fine. Just draw your attention back to your breath and then keep going.

spk_1:   1:33:19
It doesn't work out.

spk_0:   1:33:20
You build it. Yeah, exactly.

spk_1:   1:33:22
Tell people that all the time because they tell me, Well, I can't help it. My mind wanders like Yeah, exactly. And just just to get somewhere, get further into this. I think we have to stop telling people that it's about clearing your mind. Um, because people think that when they're meditating or done meditating that like nothing is happening in there, all that's happening is they're breathing and it's more like you're separating yourself from it. You're starting to see that there's difference or or distance you the conscious you, whatever you wanna consider yourself made, the choice to focus on your breathing. And yet all these thoughts are popping up and just kind of doing a quick drive by. So it's not that they don't exist anymore. It's not that your mind is clear. It's that you're seeing that these things happen, whether you like thumbs who are not. And then you get the choice of whether you want to associate with them or not

spk_0:   1:34:10
see personally, I've had different experience with it. That's more how it when I started meditation it would be those thoughts were always there, and I was just kind of like a branch of my thinking. But now when I meditate after I meditate for a few minutes I do completely clear my mind, and it's focused on whatever I'm meditating on, whether it's sensation, I like to meditate in the shower because I think it's really easy to focus on the sensation of water heading like my head or my hands. Um, and that's easier for me to focus on them breathing. But when I clear my mind of those things, I'm completely focused on whatever sensory, um, meditation I'm focused on. Everybody has different experiences with it. But the point is, the most important thing is to learn how to quiet your mind, not necessarily completely clear it. And to focus on what you decide to focus on, that you have

spk_1:   1:34:59
focused. Being the biggest part is like, Yeah, I was learning how to build the skill of focus, choosing what you want to pay attention to, whatever sensory data that is, if it's your breathing. Some people don't like that, cause the freaks amount to think about the breathing. That's fine. Focus on how you're but feels in your chair while you're meditating. Focus on a mantra that you repeat over and over. Just one. Whatever. Yeah, it's good shit. Okay, so we've got to start wrapping this up a little bit because I slept a stream today and we're moving into a nice long podcast, which I think everyone's gonna enjoy. That's, um So what were the lasting implications or if any from your your trip, like after you left, you went back home even today. Like, are there any things since trying psilocybin that have changed permanently?

spk_0:   1:35:47
Um, it opened my mind up to the greater possibilities. And I know that even if I deviate from what I've learned or the path that I would want to go down at certain points it's opened me up to I know that that path, the right path exists. I know that, uh, I have certain ideas for the way that I wanna live my life now and that even if I deviate from it, I can always circle back to it. It gives me confidence for the future because I know that I'm in control of my destiny. And, um, it kind of expanded my idea of the world that I live in and my own individual potential in the same way that being on twitch has kind of expanded. My idea of my day to day life. The reason I like being on Twitch is because it connects me with so many people all over the world and so many different friends online that have different interests and lifestyles and things like that. Where if I had never gotten involved in this, my life would revolve around my hometown, the friends that I have physically, And if I wasn't talking to them or anything like that, I'd feel much were isolated. I never feel isolated because I'm opened up to the idea of all these amazing things that I can do all over the world that my friends are doing as well, because I've expand. I've made connections all over this globe that we occupy in the same way that I've now made connections in my brain to traverse the entire universe for my idea of it. So so that for me, is the most expanding bit of mindfulness that I gained from so seven mushrooms.

spk_1:   1:37:21
That's dope. So if you if you had to recommend, it's like, let's say we have someone who is kind of ideal candidates, so to speak, you know, they did all the research there at this point where they've determined that there's nothing that's gonna potentially harm them. They have a safe source, and they are thinking about going into it. Is there anything you would advise a new, um, mind Explorer before they hop into psychedelics?

spk_0:   1:37:47
Well, I'm sure that type of person would definitely be doing it for therapeutic reasons or spiritual reasons or experimental reasons, not for recreation. I don't think that this is a good recreational drug. I know a lot of people when at least when they're younger, that have done it that way. I know my dad was telling me about his experiences with it, and he never sat and meditated while he was thinking taking second so I wouldn't Well, you could probably have a sick time if you were doing it recreationally. I wouldn't advise it for recreation. This is not something that I would do is a recreational drug. Make sure that you have a safe space. You have allotted the time that you need to do it, and you're not going to have any disruptions and then, uh, choose something that's soothing to you. Like the moving art was really nice for us. Um, I really enjoyed it. the setting was the setting is crucial because you're picking up on vibes you're picking up on. Everything is amplified. So if you have a negative environment, physical environment that's gonna be amplified, it's gonna seeped through into your trip. Uh, so make sure you have a good space and a good, uh, mentality towards approaching it. That's that's really it. I would definitely recommend it. Thio pretty much everybody. I would recommend experiencing this at least once because it's so easy to get caught in your own close mindedness that you'll never realize that you can just open up and break free of it. And this opens it prize. You open like a clam and you're open to the world. You know you don't have a choice.

spk_1:   1:39:13
You have heard it here. Rocky isn't open clam now. Yeah, that's awesome. I really appreciate that. I appreciate you being open to talk about this because I said at the beginning of this podcast, this may be a recurring thing, kind of talking about experiences other people have had with it because I really, really want to reduce this stigma. I think there is power in this as a tool and you know, going back into that hole like everything is part of this one grand machine. I don't think it's a mistake that this fucking thing grows naturally in our world. You know

spk_0:   1:39:52
it. I'd completely agree with that. And I also do want to point out that speaking of this stigma behind it, I have never really been one to experiment with drugs or anything like that. I didn't even smoke weed until I was like I was in college. I was in my twenties and I didn't like it. Really. Um, a lot of my friend has experimented with tons of other drugs, and they always offered them to me. And I always said, No, I grew up thinking like, bad, bad, bad. No, no, no. And while I do think that a lot of substances are very detrimental, I think that this is something that's completely different. Um, and it's unique in and of itself, and I opened my mind to it, and I gained a lot from it. I'm also a very scientific person. So, like a lot of people think, Oh, it's like a hippy dippy type drug, and you sound like they think of like burnouts or something when they hear mushrooms. I think the reason a lot of those people sent seemed burned out is because you get exposed to so many different things. When you take these types of drugs, that is very hard to articulate it. It's a sensory overload. So if you're not good at articulating what you've seen and what you experience, you're gonna sound like a burnout or you're gonna sound hippy dippy because you're not making sense of it yourself. Maybe said, it makes sense to you, but you can't convey it to others. So

spk_1:   1:41:03
do you find that you can converse very easily with other people who have tripped now? Yes, it's like as soon as you know that they tripped. Also, it's like, Oh, I can drop all of this all of this and go straight to the stuff because I know you're gonna feel me. I know you understand.

spk_0:   1:41:19
I still haven't done enough to understand, like to be ableto empathize with Duke will be coming in off the post, for example, like that. That was something that I still don't really. I didn't get so I can't really resonate with, but I can understand. It doesn't seem stupid to me. If that's what makes sense

spk_1:   1:41:37
like with the overwhelming feelings. Don't seem a silly anymore. Like when someone is like man, love really is the answer. And you're like, Oh, I know that because I felt it because I fucking was love for a day.

spk_0:   1:41:48
I wasn't You know, that's absolutely true, absolutely true. And it doesn't sound silly. Once you've embodied it, you can resonate with that. You can empathize. It's not just sympathy. It's empathy. You felt it before.

spk_1:   1:42:01
Yeah, and it's like I I use this example the time like after tripping. I have this very like, strong dislike for expressing any kind of negativity, even towards inanimate on checks like I'm so locked into the idea that we are also interconnected, like every part of the matter in our world, like this is all us. So you have. But

spk_0:   1:42:23
whatever into the universe that you decide.

spk_1:   1:42:25
Yeah, and I love talking to my things. I love talking to, like, trees and plans and stuff in, like I know that they're not gonna talk back to me. It's not that kind of like a tree hugger hippie shit where I'm like I love talking to the world and it talks back, but it's more like I know that it feels me. So I'm cool with that, Like I'm putting out these waves of positive energy and love, and I know that by like telling one of my trees in my yard that I think it's a beautiful tree. I know that the tree isn't like filled with a sense of pride. Like Go mi, I turned into a great tree, but I know that there is something happening where my energy is going out, connecting to this and like, because we're all part of the same shit. There's something good that comes from that. So I love doing it. I think we're my stuff all the time.

spk_0:   1:43:14
We're all the centerpieces of our own lives, So if you think about, if you're just the greatest and brightest you that you can be toe everything that's around you at all points in time, you're changing your universe. It's almost like in video games. What's rendering is what's in front of you, like you're only rendering the map that's in front of you. The rest of it's not. It's there, but it's not rendered. You could only influence what's in your direct contact. So if you want to be that person that's radiating joy and light, then you're going to do that. All the people that are going to be around you are going to benefit from it. It's in science. Energy flows from high to low, so if you can create that high level of energy, you draw the energy from within yourself and you bring it into your universe. It's going to float all the people around you and you're gonna bring them up just by being in the presence.

spk_1:   1:44:02
Ayman lead by example. Yeah, and if I

spk_0:   1:44:07
remember the thing that I forgot earlier if you want. If you want to close with that, so it's again the most. The underlying theme here is focus. I think focus is the most important thing, cause everything stems from it. Um, so it's an analogy that I had realized in watching football because I used to be big into sports thing. Idea of prevent defense. You ever see a football game and it's all about momentum. There's a lot of momentum that goes into its obviously skill talent strategy, but towards the end of a game when somebody's met mounting a comeback. You, they might have been dominant the entire game, but the other team starts coming back and they are able to build that momentum and and go. They're playing to win. And then the other team who's on defense plays what's called prevent defense. They're preventing the other team from a big play. They're trying to not lose the game, not give up the big play. And the underlying focus there is on not losing now, technically not losing and winning or the same thing. But where's the focus in each? If you're focusing on not losing, you're thinking about losing. And just like that Google search query in your brain, Okay,

spk_1:   1:45:14
bring trying to not

spk_0:   1:45:15
lose exactly. We're trying to not lose what, what entails? Losing what could make us lose. Well, if I miss this catch or I'd scuff this play or I let up a big catch or I tripped and I fall over my feet. All of those things could make me lose. Now I'm gonna not do that. All of those negative things are what's in your mind. And then lo and behold, almost every time the prevent defense fails, they give up 50 our past. They give up a bunch of little passes, and then all of a sudden the other team comes in and scores. Now the other team isn't focused on not losing their focus on We need to win. Let's make this happen. Both of the teams are trying to tow win, but the underlying focus is what determines the outcome. So in your life, are you playing prevent defense when you're trying to accomplish something? Are you trying to not mess up? Are you trying to not fail or you trying to succeed the

spk_1:   1:46:02
linguine? Or are you playing not to lose

spk_0:   1:46:05
the same outcome on paper, but the underlying focus of what determines the results there?

spk_1:   1:46:12
Yeah, that's you know, money has been playing a lot of poker, and that's something that we talk about all the time. It's like make sure that you know where you're at. If you start recognizing that you're playing because you don't want to lose, walk away from the table for a bit stretched, meditate, then go back when you're ready to play to win. Then you sit down and you play

spk_0:   1:46:29
right. Are you running forwards or you backing? Backing out backpedaling. It's very important. O focus on your focus.

spk_1:   1:46:39
Focus on your focus, people. Yeah, this was awesome. I'm glad you joined me for this, Rocky.

spk_0:   1:46:45
Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

spk_1:   1:46:47
Everyone, make sure you go follow him. Say nice things to me. Is a great game or a great person. And I think you'll enjoy his streams because kind of similar to my channel. Rocky is open to talk about this stuff at any time. Let you go in there and you ask him a question about the universe and he's in the middle of a game. You're gonna first of all, see his fucking face light up because the stewed loves to talk about the universe, but, like he will do it. He will give you all the time and energy to talk about all kinds of random shit in your brain. So make sure you do that. You'll have a great time.

spk_0:   1:47:19
Absolutely. I love talking about the universe.

spk_1:   1:47:22
Thank you again having awesome day. And I'll see you at Garden. Come.

spk_0:   1:47:27
I'll see you at Garden Cone. Maybe even sooner. Maybe I'll make a trip out to Chicago.

spk_1:   1:47:31
French Do it.

spk_0:   1:47:33
All right. You have a good one. Take care of snacks. I buy. No way.