Mind of Snaps Podcast

A Day in the Life of a Writer for Casting Support - Episode 13 Mind of Snaps Podcast

August 18, 2018 Bones_CR Season 1 Episode 13
Mind of Snaps Podcast
A Day in the Life of a Writer for Casting Support - Episode 13 Mind of Snaps Podcast
Chapters
Mind of Snaps Podcast
A Day in the Life of a Writer for Casting Support - Episode 13 Mind of Snaps Podcast
Aug 18, 2018 Season 1 Episode 13
Bones_CR
Not only does Bones have TWO podcasts (Crucible Radio & Gaming In Hell) but he's also a writer for Breakdown Services, a casting support company that assists with thousands of projects in the entertainment industry each year. He writes character descriptions for episodic television and feature films! This is a longer episode but I really think you'll enjoy it!
Show Notes Transcript
Not only does Bones have TWO podcasts (Crucible Radio & Gaming In Hell) but he's also a writer for Breakdown Services, a casting support company that assists with thousands of projects in the entertainment industry each year. He writes character descriptions for episodic television and feature films! This is a longer episode but I really think you'll enjoy it!

Support the show (http://www.patreon.com/shesnaps)

spk_0:   0:11
Welcome to the mind of a podcast with your host, Jess A. She stamps a popular twitch broadcaster, photographer, entrepreneur and Bendel's advocates in this and future cast expect to fall on with snaps as she learns more about her mind in the world and her fellow humans. It could get messy, but stick around. You might just learn something as you enter the mind of snaps. What's up, guys? Welcome toe. Episode 13 13. Lucky, Lucky Number 13 on the Mind of Snaps podcast This week, I'm super excited to do another a day in the life. I really enjoy doing these because I get his chance to just sit down and learn more about what people do every day in their jobs, and I get to learn more about what those jobs are. So if you have an interesting job, don't forget. Hit me up. You can find me on Twitter mind of snaps. Or you can email me mind of snaps at gmail dot com and let me know a little bit more about your job and tell me why you think it might be appropriate for a podcast like this. But this week we have bones He's from Crucible radio. He does a couple different podcasts and he's got what I think is a very fascinating job. So let's get right into that and introduce them. All right, so we got bones here, Bones, What's up?

spk_1:   1:31
Not much. What's up with you?

spk_0:   1:33
You know, just the usual. Trying to decide if I should attempt Thio to get all serious and refer to you as Mitch occasionally. Occasionally, but I don't think I'm ready. I think I'm just gonna stick with bones.

spk_1:   1:44
That's fine. That's fine. It's podcast world, so I'll always be bones. To some extent, it were

spk_0:   1:50
true. True. And I'm just I can never do the real name thing. It just throws me out because I'm used to seeing you in my feet as bones. I'm used to seeing everything as, like, twitch Twitter podcast names. The real world isn't isn't real to me right now. Well, then you

spk_1:   2:06
found out that I have some weird, like, middle name first name trick, and it just becomes this whole ordeal. So

spk_0:   2:11
yes. What? My boyfriend does the same thing too. He goes by his middle name and that always throws everyone off. Plus, he he changed his Twitter information. So it's like a like a jumble of letters from his actual name, but it it makes them. What is it? It's like Ben. Aleksei Nian is what? His name shows up as on Twitter. Eso everyone thinks his name is Ben and his name is Alex. So, like you people, I don't know what to do that.

spk_1:   2:38
Yeah. People think I like Don't want to be called my first name, but it was even my choice. So that's right. I'm not. I'm named. My first name is after a grandfather, but my parents were always gonna call me Mitch. So then, like, a teacher would read out Robert, which is literally, technically my first name.

spk_0:   2:56
Yeah, but

spk_1:   2:56
then, like kids, you know, little awful little kids think I'm, like, think I, like, get upset. So they call me Robert to tease me, and I just wouldn't respond because I don't react to it. So if you yell Robert across the room, I won't turn around.

spk_0:   3:10
They used your real name to tease you. This that's the skill lover level of youthful trolls right there. Well, you remembered like bro. That's my name.

spk_1:   3:22
Well, you got that. And then you got the fact that my name is Mitch and rhymes with a very easy insult, and they couldn't think of that one. So

spk_0:   3:29
I'll be honest. It took me a second. Well, it's

spk_1:   3:32
a decent person who didn't jump right to that.

spk_0:   3:35
Let's not go too far into that idea, but sure, we'll go with that. Mitch said. Decent, decent. Okay, I'll go with that. I'll allow it. All right. So, Bones, you do to podcasts, and you also have what we'll just refer to as your day job. Then what is your day job? Please tell me about it. That's like the main reason that I wanted to talk is when I posted that sweet about like Do you have an interesting job? And you gave me just, you know, our many characters you can fit into a tweet. I was like, I watch a lot of entourage.

spk_1:   4:14
Well, I definitely hit you with the most interesting part of it, but I'll try toe. I figured I'd have to push through the lake whole setup of what the world of casting is to get to the cool farts. But you know, historically and batted explaining this airfare to just do the technical part first. And maybe it will be interesting, but

spk_0:   4:34
I think it will be just just jump in wherever you want to jump in. Tell me about what you d'oh!

spk_1:   4:39
So, first of all, I am a writer and I write something called Breakdowns, Breakdowns, Air used to cast TV stuff, feature films, commercials. What have you But the whole thing where it starts is that I work for a company called Breakdown Service is that's the name of the actual product. But this is part of this very, very lake. Complicated, I don't know, very connected side of the casting side of Hollywood and TV and entertainment.

spk_0:   5:17
And you even you live out there, right?

spk_1:   5:19
Yes, I do. I live in a way, and, uh, we work at a nice little mom and pop building on the in west l A. And, uh, we're very We're kind of cut off from the hustle and bustle. It's really funny because I know when you know workers, a lot of other industry people, maybe people who are on set or we're working art departments and I'm like, Oh, I work a breakdown and they have to like what? Like eso No one who works in it and who is probably used. It knows about breakdown. Oh, yeah, But it is this, like it's like the It's like the liver of the entertainment and you don't think about your liver. You can feel your heart beat. You know how muscles work but like your liver is pretty important. And so no one really knows what we do. But the casting side of things, the process of a casting director who's the person that you know, sits in those auditions and goes, You're perfect. You're the part. They use our system in our sight and a few other competitors, but mostly breakdown to get in touch with agents and alcohol. So agents and actors have their own little thing. So agents go online and they see these breakdowns, and I'll get to what a breakdown is. But they represent actors and they go, Hey, that looks good. I got an actor that fits that description. They drop man. It's all online. They submit it in a casting director. They get 900 faces on there on their side of breakdown online, and they get 900 people. They're like, OK, well, that's too many. Let's see Ah, 100 of these people at an audition and they use this system, our website, to sort of gather the people they want to see for that first wave. And then

spk_0:   7:00
So there's there's a person aspect and there's a technological aspect. You have some of this automated, but you're like the one that's putting together the stuff that can be automated. Then,

spk_1:   7:09
well, I'm putting together the descriptions of the characters, the sarcastic There's so many levels, but it's funny because my little room and breakdown service is I mean, we're I don't know the number, but there's at least 100 people there. But a lot of them are just working on this site or doing actor supports like I don't know, I don't know what they do, and we're different enough that I don't ever interact with a lot of the other departments. Interesting, But so all right, so try to get to the cooler parts. So there's this whole thing all the times you see that classic scene of an audition, you know, they walk in and I'm reading for the part of blah, blah, blah and there's the three people at the table. Yeah, everything to get to that point is done online. And there's versions and versions and versions of whatever and someone submitted to a description of a character, or else how would they know? You know what part fits them? Yeah, So that's what I right. Okay, so So now we get to I'll get to the actual breakdown thing. So

spk_0:   8:12
is it honestly bad that, like every every part of this that you are discussing, I'm literally just picturing so many aspects of entourage. Like, I know him mention that before. But my boyfriend just started watching it for the first time, so I, like, started at the beginning with him. And now I'm just, like, imagining all these different people from the show in these roles. And I'm like, Okay, okay. So now I just have to, like, envision you as like, a separate but integral part of this.

spk_1:   8:41
Yeah, So that's the thing is like, I don't ever see uh, this set. I don't go. I don't work on projects and stuff like that. I'm not really hands on in terms of the art itself of shooting most shows But what we get is the scripts. We are very directly the I say we, I mean six writers. There's six people in L. A that do this and that part I'm very proud of because there's

spk_0:   9:06
only six of you in general, not just at your job.

spk_1:   9:09
Just six writers at allow that, right? Breakdowns and the other five have all been doing it for 20 to 30 years, some some less. But it's like a little family in there. And I actually started as the assistant to that room. And then we have such an influx of scripts and so many projects happening, uh, these days that they actually added a writer position and and hired me or promoted me. So I became the first, like, new writer s

spk_0:   9:41
so cool. Yeah, it'd be a bad ass dude. Good for you.

spk_1:   9:47
Yeah, it was really cool. And I have learned a lot from them have and like so my the other writers have all been doing that themselves. But some of them have written TV pilots that have been made, one of them's of a theatre critic. She's been, uh, writing for the l. A Times for a very long time, and it's amazing her knowledge of theater is will stagger you and they're all movie buffs and that kind of thing. So and and a couple of them are former and current actors, so they've also been on that side of it. So yeah, it's a lot to learn, and it's really cool. But we get scripts for shows,

spk_0:   10:23
not literally every show,

spk_1:   10:25
let literally every movie. But if it's important enough, if it's got a big enough budget, you know, except the network thing, it's like So, for example, Entourage but not, uh, you know, a show on local cable or

spk_0:   10:39
something. I got it

spk_1:   10:41
right. So we get the scripts and we write descriptions of the characters in those scripts for whoever the casting director needs to cast. So I'll use Entourage for an example. So if we commonly

spk_0:   10:56
please speak to me oh,

spk_1:   10:59
probably like not know enough of the details of the show to make it worth it. But, uh, So, for example, Entourage has been out for a long time, right? Maybe where it is in three or whatever. When we get in a script of Entourage, we already know the leads like we don't have to break down. Um, you know, Turtle, because that's no one's casting. He's cast. We would do if we get something like that is fine. All right. Well, who's tthe e? Who's showing up? All right? Maybe it's a new producer that's gonna schmooze on him or something like that. Like I always knew. So all right, A description for him. Or maybe it's a security guard that they trying or a bouncer and they try to get into a club. He's got two lines in the show. You'll never see him again, but they need to cast him for that episode. Okay, so So what I do is I read a script and I literally go line for line, and it's really it sounds glamorous, but I have a notebook next to me where I literally do a dash, and I count how many times person talks they've aligned a dash it. They have a line. Dash it there in a new scene, account that scene. So I count how many times they're actually talking in a script. And if they're the lead, I don't have to get every line. I'll call him a lead which is nice. But, for example, that bouncer, maybe he's got two lines and he's in one scene in that moment that moment where they're trying to get into a club and I'll just describe them and I'll say and it sometimes the script provides a lot of details. Sometimes they just call him Bouncer. And there's nothing but I might say fifties Caucasian, big, intimidating, no. B s. You know, he he refuses to let Turtle into a club and that whole description, because

spk_0:   12:39
he's

spk_1:   12:39
got two lines and that's all it takes, and then they can find that person for a lead. Then I get to go a little bit more in detail and I'll say Maybe, like, you know, if there is some schmoozy producer, I might describe him as, you know, I'll just get more creative and I'll be like, Oh, he's shark like but a good businessman. Uh, kind of. He's got a snake oil salesman vibe and then I'll get into what they do. And I'll say that, you know, he's approaching them with an offer that they can't refuse. But it turns out to be a sham or something like that. Okay, and Uh, and I'll describe that. So then all those roll descriptions get put on a breakdown. There you have it. That's the breakdown. It'll probably be called Entourage Episode three of three and that will get, you know, tweaked by the casting director. Maybe they want. They don't want to call the bouncer big, but they want to call him like tall. I'll let it that for them or fix fix a little phrasing here and there. And then we post it the agents go, I I represent an actor that can play a bouncer may submit, and then hopefully that guy that got submitted gets called into the audition. And that's the whole wheel. Let's little technical process. That's the whole cycle of how people get cast.

spk_0:   13:54
It's so interesting, though, because, you know, I guess you just don't really think about that kind of stuff. You just think like here's a script and then someone decided I like this role. I want to be a part of it, which I'm sure a lot of that does happen for maybe some of those bigger names. But I didn't really think about how something like that would be cast and now you're making me think Like I said in Entourage terms, if there was some bouncer I can totally see sitting down and writing that like he needs to be friendly enough that, like he conduce a quick like handshake but still say like, No, you're not getting in. He's got to be intimidating, right? Right, I That's so interesting. I never knew this existed.

spk_1:   14:32
Well, that's the thing is like, I've talked to directors who I had to like, really like, you know, break down the saying, the character description. It's like you you did this and they're like, Oh, like it's such a little corner But it's really, really essential to the entire process. So, you know, I guess that's for me. It's been working out pretty well. I've been there for five years, and I've been a writer for four. And it's cool that I get sort of like I can get my hands on something that's maybe going to be big or maybe is at least has some importance to it based on who wrote it or who's in it. But I also to just have a very standard, you know, um, 40 hour work week I sit at a desk, I got my desk. It's a little family in there. It's very mom and pop when it comes down to, it s so it works out for me because I'm not the most like, you know, go get her scream on kind of guy like I don't live for that That energy like a lot of people. D'oh! So it's cool. I'm fairly involved while also not having the most stressful side of it s Oh, yeah, it's cool.

spk_0:   15:41
And so, like with these with these scripts that you get, you said, sometimes they're very descriptive and sometimes they're not. Do you ever push back from one of the writers? When you create a breakdown of one of their characters, they're actually wrong. I said it specifically in the script. I wanted dark hair, dark features, whatever.

spk_1:   16:02
Well, so a couple times. But they're weird instances, and for the most part, writers aren't super involved. So our relationship, our clients so speak is the casting directors, and we have. Like I said, there's departments in my office that work directly with actors who have accounts or agents. You know, I don't have to talk to agents. But I'll help the casting director out because those were the people giving us scripts. Um, and they will do a lot of their own changes, and they'll also work with producers. And, weirdly, enough producers of the people sort of making those calls. Oh, and some writers are, you know, it's kind of funny because, like, there are a bunch of, like, laws of screenwriting, and I didn't go to film school. Actually, I just got a plain old English writing degree still, but I But I've learned a bit about script writing and, like a traditionalist, will say that you shouldn't be describing your character to so many extreme details like if you're casting a you know, like a lady who lost everything and now she's homeless and she turns out to be the hero like Yeah, yeah, you could describe her pretty in detail, but there is this traditionalist sense of you should just give them a name. And then it's up to the director and the actor and the people and everyone who puts this together to really, really decide who that person is.

spk_0:   17:26
So it's really a team effort to come together with that to get that final vision.

spk_1:   17:31
Yeah, and that's why I don't have to always go so hard on, like, at least physical descriptions. So, Okay, for example, like a project I work on. That was really, really cool. I got the script for John Wick, too.

spk_0:   17:44
Oh, cool.

spk_1:   17:46
Yeah. Yeah. All three John Wick's have come through our office. I got to and I forget, You know, I think John Wick was cast before I started. I can't remember. But, John, look, three came in and I went to my my co worker, Chris, and she was like, What is this? And we're all like, It's

spk_0:   18:02
John wit.

spk_1:   18:03
She had no idea what the Really? Yeah. She was just like, Oh, all right. She's like,

spk_0:   18:07
this is

spk_1:   18:07
Violet. I'm like, yeah, we're all

spk_0:   18:09
like, it's really good,

spk_1:   18:11
but anyways, yeah,

spk_0:   18:12
I would've been like, don't worry. I'll do this one for you. You clearly don't don't know much about it. It's probably really, really difficult for you just so that I could read that frickin script.

spk_1:   18:22
Yeah, that's a funny part of people trying to maybe secretly get scripts they want to read or don't want to read. But it's a whole nother thing. But in that instance, well, of course I didn't write the description for John Wick because that was Chiana Reeves and him. He was not getting recast. But if a writer in the traditional sense was to describe John Wick originally, it would probably just say like thirties. Maybe not even list that and say, like a stoic, cold man. You know that my brooding Yeah, and they might be so vague in that first thing they might just say like haunted eyes. Sometimes they do that. They'll say, like John Wick, 30 haunted eyes. And that's like what I get right when that first shows up and I'm okay, new character, and I'll write that down and all indicate you know where this character just showed up. But it's for me, for it's up for the rest of the script to then go like OK, well, who is he? And it's well, it's someone who's out for revenge of someone who had made peace with his dark past but is, you know, pulling it out of him again, or it's always been inside of him. These capable of such things or he's just, you know, Maybe he's just done with it. Maybe he's so over it and he doesn't care anymore. And I'll have to determine like, Well, what is it really like? What are his biggest motivations? Cause that's where an actor will go in. And, you know, sometimes we joked that it's just easy to read the first part and go like thirties Caucasian. Great. I've got one of those and submit, submit an actor. But the actor does want a little bit of info, so they want to go in there and they don't like. No one wants to go audition for John Wick and be like, Yeah, I'm thinking back, bitch. And

spk_0:   20:06
like I like,

spk_1:   20:08
terrible like macho, you know, like Sylvester.

spk_0:   20:12
Like a fast thing like thinking I'm back. Larry David is cast. Yeah,

spk_1:   20:18
like he's all creepy. Or like,

spk_0:   20:20
you know, someone like wants to

spk_1:   20:22
go in and nail that vibrant gets that vibe of like this dude has lost everything and does not care anymore. And they want to nail that, And it's not always gonna be perfect. An actor wants to put their own spin on things, but that that's where they can pull it. And that's where you can have five billion Caucasian males in their thirties. But one of them is John Wick. Otherwise, it's just like too big. So that's the traditionalists to get back to the screenwriting side. A traditionalist is very, very limited. And then you've got writers who just love for right and they love to describe. And they love to get really, really detailed. And you know what? For me, that's fine. Like go nuts. I'll just probably right exactly that, because it's not about me like no changing the words. And I'm not really worried about plagiarizing. It's like, No, this was from the script. You described him as, um, a weirdo with two teeth who whistles and I'll write

spk_0:   21:17
that. And I'm not,

spk_1:   21:18
you know, it's not like my job to go like no ah, strange man with less to

spk_0:   21:25
have to sort of re word that I will never hear a phrase. Yeah,

spk_1:   21:30
the times, I'll paraphrase. That's when they Then they get a little offensive for just problematic. And I'll be like, All right, this in an okay way, and we'll be fine.

spk_0:   21:39
God. Ah, that's see. I was even gonna ask that, though, Um, the whole, like John Wick as an example of just saying like he's a white man versus giving that back story of kind of the emotional sense of that character going in. Is all of that stuff like for the most part of you picking up a lot of that from reading the whole script and getting kind of like the full story? Because I'm sure they don't write that in the script like he is in ER or he is conflicted by his past but wants to move forward. So you're the one who's putting a lot of that together based on context.

spk_1:   22:15
Yeah, basically. And that's really why we do read the script. And that's why it takes a sort of creative approach to it. I mean, it could be in plenty of cases that were just kind of like a robot or a program that, just like, pulls those attributes right, like boats and thirties in the script. Let's put thirties in the breakdown, and that's really just like, you know, the first couple words of a description, but where it comes in is that we interpret and see what happens and actually figure it out, and we're not just gonna You know, we're not there to figure out, like so someone kills his dog and he goes and there's this Russian guy, you know, you don't want a list out like those the things he does. But like, Why? What is he feeling? And that does take a little bit of reading. And you know, part of it is I've done hundreds of scripts at this point When it comes to that bouncer, I'm not like super worried because he's probably not gonna have, like, a big twist or a big ark.

spk_0:   23:12
This'll guy wakes up every morning, has orange juice, has great, loving family, but he's a little conflicted because he's having difficulties with his mother in Lime. You write that for, like, a two line bouncer.

spk_1:   23:27
Or sometimes the writer tells me all that, and I'm like, Okay, but doesn't matter, because

spk_0:   23:32
all he does

spk_1:   23:33
shake guys. So yeah, some people really, really go all out. But yeah, yeah, that's part of the you know, that's that's why everyone who does this and all of my co workers and mentors since I've started doing that, have that side of them. It's like they've either, like acted themselves have written themselves and if anything, are just huge. Huge fans of literature and art and and entertainment stuff like that, and you and you sort of have to do be ableto pull that. And it's not the hardest thing in the world, but to really pull it out of the script, have it in your head, and then also put it back on a piece of paper and nail. It is, Ah, is the fun part, and that's sort of the challenge. But But I've I don't get you. You sort of asked, like Do a lot of people not like a description or really wanna change it? Not really. Honestly, there's sometimes that were They will. And sometimes I'm just like whatever. Like I you can't said the same thing, but in different words. So

spk_0:   24:36
I'm not

spk_1:   24:37
really you get you get Thio. You get used to not caring about someone like chopping up your writing because it's like, you know, all right, like no one's wrong. It's just like what you want it. Or sometimes it's semantics for the casting process like you, you just want to make it a little more nice or a little more vague so that, like more talent wants it. You know, like it sounds like a more appealing role because, you know, not everyone wants to play like a bad role or something like that. Or if it's 21 interesting. So though they'll spice it up. But I understand that it's not them going. While he really didn't understand what this character was like, it's just more of Ah, you know, I am a casting director, and this is how we have to get the submissions. So, yeah, it goes through a lot of changes, but mostly between the casting director and the producer who really wants to get their hands on it. It comes back to us and we make those changes and then send it out to the world.

spk_0:   25:29
All right, So how many of these do you write a day?

spk_1:   25:33
Well, an episodic. So, like a show me half hour longer. An hour can take about two hours for an hour long show. Ah, feature really depends. It could be, you know, 10 rolls in there. It might take us three or four hours or we get we've gotten scripts that are just so massive and they take us a day. Or maybe it just carries on until the next day. S o. I would say I put out on average, 223 a day, Um and then when we have busier seasons, because we definitely fluctuate with pilot season when all the new shows air starting or when you know fall television is coming back on air like which will be soon for me. We'll start getting more and more shows every day, and we'll do less feature films or way less pilots, pilots being like a new show s. So then I can do maybe four or five or even Maur if it's just like a bunch of little things, because sometimes it's like, you know, we've got one character in this episode of new new Girl that we need And I'm like, Great, let me handle that and takes me half an hour,

spk_0:   26:35
Okay?

spk_1:   26:36
But yeah, we put out a lot and umm, I think, uh, one of the writers Richard calculates, and he does about an average of 600 scripts a year, I want to say, and maybe that's been Mork cause I think he said that a couple of years ago. And then the reason they, you know, brought me on as another writer is that just so many shows are being made. It's really, really insane. There's a lot of shows and with Netflix now, and

spk_0:   27:04
I was just gonna say, Did Netflix change that a bit? Now that there's there's not just TV, there's Netflix. And who? Lulu and Amazon and all these independent places making their own shows and movies

spk_1:   27:16
definitely. And that that changes pilot season a lot because pilot season It's like so Christmas. The industry shuts down, everyone's quiet. It's very nice, really peaceful. And then soon as January starts, it's like we're going to make new shows and some big channels will have, like 25 to 30 pilots, like the first episode making a show on going hope. Hopefully, this is our new show, right, and most of them don't make it to air or some of them make it to Eric. It canceled in 34 weeks or a season, but that's this Russian January and 434 years ago was probably the worst or the biggest pilot season I ever had, and that's when I started writing because that was very just this out pilot season works. Since then, it's actually slowed down, and this has been partially because of stuff like Netflix. They just do shows when they want.

spk_0:   28:09
Yeah, I noticed that they don't really have the traditional like summer fall line of stuff going on.

spk_1:   28:16
Yeah, like stranger things is not coming out like the same night is like the new episode of two Broke girls like It's just happening when they do it and and that gives them a lot of, you know, obviously a lot of action throughout the year. Consistently, there's not reruns in the same sense anymore. Ah, and stuff like that and then some. Some networks, like Fox, ABC, all those big network. Some of them were just like, You know what? We're not going to do pilot season in the same sense we're going to start spreading shows out or just, you know, maybe maybe growing them a little bit more before we immediately put a show on the air as opposed to, like, film pilot put it out there. Hopefully, it's takes that kind of thing. So So pilot season has been changing, but yeah, we still have we still have busy periods from January to March, just tons and tons of shows? And then we'll get Rush in July. And then it's like Christmas scripts start coming in August because Hallmark Christmas movie, Of

spk_0:   29:18
course. I was just thinking like, what kind of turned around, But that would make sense for a relatively short turnaround on some of those ah, Christmas movies that come out.

spk_1:   29:27
Oh, yeah, there's a lot of Christmas movies. It's staggering.

spk_0:   29:30
Yes, I can't Can't wash, can I can't do it.

spk_1:   29:34
Uh, we have a We have a little The motto for Christmas movies, especially of the Hallmark variety, is that big city bad small town. Good. And that's really all you need to know. Big City is very, very bad. Don't have a big busy job in New York. Go back to small town, be with your family. That's good. That's all it takes.

spk_0:   29:57
Oh, that's I mean, There you go. Nailed it. You nailed it. I

spk_1:   30:01
just did the logline for, like, 50 Christmas movies.

spk_0:   30:05
Oh, my God. Jeez. So, like, you're right. You're going through all these different scripts. You probably have a pretty good reading comprehension. I'd have to imagine to be able t read between the lines and put together a good character description. Do you get excited when you see that stuff? Then when you see whoever they cast for these roles do sometimes does it kind of match up?

spk_1:   30:26
Yeah, yeah, there's been a few and I will say, I think I watch less TV since I started reading scripts, which

spk_0:   30:36
is reminiscing,

spk_1:   30:37
I still get to the big ones and so

spk_0:   30:39
is the magic gone? I think it's a

spk_1:   30:42
little bit like, Wow, I want to just, like, go home and play video games and not think about TV. Ah, little bit, you know, And But there's there's definitely shows that I've started watching because I read the scripts, which is funny. That's happened two or three times. I think Hell on wheels, my favorite show I zombie and fresh off the boat. I don't know if that's still on there, but those were scripts where I read them and I'm like, These were great and I actually went home and, you know, found him on who loo or something like that and started watching those. But that doesn't happen too often. I definitely like occasionally, just like seeing an episode of something right. Rhea lot of ah, blackish And I remember like my roommate was watching an episode and I'm like and I went down the kitchen of making a sandwich. I'm like, Why

spk_0:   31:28
do I

spk_1:   31:29
know the plot of this show? And it turned out I had read the script. I was like, Oh, yeah, I know what happens So that's always kind of a cool feeling, But there's There's a few big feature films where it's kind of wild for me toe for me to see them eventually go on to become something like, I would have to say that the thing I'm most proud of reading was shape of water.

spk_0:   31:50
Oh, cool.

spk_1:   31:52
Yeah, it was a pretty surreal experience when, like a just just do breakdowns. You know, there's just get a script to do it. You don't care what it is. Obviously, I saw the name of the writer and let's that's crazy and it was good and it's nice to get a good script, but it was wild that, like I'm 78 months later, it's like, Oh, that's the best picture! Had read the script and written descriptions for

spk_0:   32:16
And you have all of Israel. What is an important part of that, too?

spk_1:   32:20
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's it's weird. It's like, you know, no one sees it. No one knows what happened. It just it's there. But, like,

spk_0:   32:28
yeah, yeah, that kind of

spk_1:   32:30
helped with that. I wrote a description, but fit. What's his face? Yeah. Good. So,

spk_0:   32:35
so cool. Especially. You don't seem like a very boastful person. And like, considering that you're one of six fucking people who do this job, I can think of 100 people who in your position would not shut the fuck up like they wouldn't every everything. I know how this ends. I know where that's going. I helped write the description for this person. Although I wanted it to be this I had this person in mind. You told

spk_1:   32:58
me

spk_0:   32:59
I could see this being the type of job where, like if if the wrong person has it, I would be like we're not friends anymore. I can't be around you. I need you to just shut up and stop spoiling my ship.

spk_1:   33:10
Well, yeah, and I'm not allowed to actually do this like I stray far away from this. But there's sometimes it's like, You know what? I don't like this project and, like someone else, says something I'm like No, no, that no, don't talk about that show And

spk_0:   33:23
I like what

spk_1:   33:24
I'm like. I just I don't And sometimes there's shows that are, like, just tough for us on the breakdown side, like on a purely technical side that are really good shows, and I absolutely respect that. It's like hard work to write some complicated shows or have, like a big vision that you need to nail and that, like, you know, sometimes it doesn't translate. Sometimes I'll read it. I'm like, I don't get it. I don't know what it shows, huh? What this person is doing, I can describe them because I can get you know I can just from a observational sense of how this person acts, I can describe them. But if you wanted me to like, really give you the whole plot outline, I'd be like, I don't know, and then it turns that turns around and a show is like, really, really popular. And I'm like, Oh, great, everyone likes that good for that show, cause I didn't understand. It s so it's Yeah, there's there's a whole whole variety and fun and funny enough. There is also a difference of like, which shows we like. And I'm like the one millennial writer and I'm like, Oh, give me that one. That's good. I love these and they're they're fun to break down and then my co workers will just be like, This is nonsense. I'm like, Yeah, I know, I know. It is

spk_0:   34:31
just It's just like rock music, man. Yeah,

spk_1:   34:36
and sometimes the show is just like this is nonsense, but it's super simple to break down. I like these writers. They give me very clear descriptions. Or sometimes a casting director will be like, Don't spoil the plot. Don't give us any story info, no background. Don't name other characters in the descriptions. I'm like, Okay, you just want me to call this cop like hard nosed and seen it all. And that's it. Yes, cool here is done. So yeah, so it's It's a whole variety and the different types of scripts, or why we like reading them or why we don't can really, really very and often have little to do with the quality or entertainment value of the script. So I'm not bashing thes shows air

spk_0:   35:17
bad. Don't you probably

spk_1:   35:19
should watch them. You shouldn't read the script because you will be confused like me, and then you become me and no one wants that. Were they stated about other TV shows he hasn't even seen yet. But

spk_0:   35:31
so what's what's one of the other? One of the other cool ones that's shown up on your desk where you saw it read the title were like, Who I get to do this?

spk_1:   35:39
Well, I would say OK for that, Like when I saw and knew ahead of time. Proudest moment. Besides, shape of water is the pilot for Atlanta.

spk_0:   35:50
Oh, that's awesome.

spk_1:   35:52
Yeah, I have been a Donald Glover stand since 2011. I saw him do a show in Denver when, like, people didn't understand that Donald Glover and childish Gambino were the same

spk_0:   36:05
person. I like people are still figuring that out. Oh,

spk_1:   36:10
yeah. Oh, yeah. My girlfriend just did, and I was like, Are you

spk_0:   36:13
Oh, my Lauren trying

spk_1:   36:14
to be me. But I went with my buddy at the time, was a sophomore in college and he did stand up for 10 15 minutes because he was still like a young guy doing comedy. And then he started rapping and my roommate was like, What is happening? Yeah, but yes, I've been obsessed with him forever, and he's one of my creative inspirations. So I actually got into work, like, a few days late, and I think I heard in days, hours, minutes, had email or someone I had sent, like, I'll be right there. So someone put a script on my desk saying He's coming in And it was just like Atlanta written by Donald Glover. And I was like, Okay, this is the coolest thing ever. What

spk_0:   36:55
are you doing that moment? Do you call a front or do you just sit there and stare at it like fucking rad? I

spk_1:   37:00
just sit there and I do it and I can't e. I can really only talk about it to you because it's definitely already out, no question about it, But yeah, that was surreal. I will say that I didn't, uh, guess that Donald himself would be playing the role he's playing. I thought he was going to play paperboy the wrapper and I assumed that was him and I didn't describe them. A such a guest. But when I saw the show, I was like, Oh, cool, that's flipped. He's not the rapper. That's kind of nice, but yeah, I had that completely backwards.

spk_0:   37:36
Now I'm just mad because I've been my boyfriend. I have been saying over and over again. The next show we are watching is going to be Atlanta. And then every time we're finished up like we finish another show, somehow he's come up with another my my boyfriend, just like nerds out over over all kinds of shows and stuff. So he always winds up with a new one. Reads like This is the one we're watching next. So we've been We've been dodging Atlanta on completely by accident, and I just keep hearing that it's amazing and I am also totally a Donald Glover stand love, like when I found out that he was involved in 30 Rock, especially, I got really excited, like just knowing that that he has had such a such a big role in so many different things. Like his humor is fucking legendary. He is a smart dude. He is talented like that. It's so cool that you got to be involved in something that he has made into something so great.

spk_1:   38:37
Yeah, just to have my hands on it for two hours out of my day was was really, really amazing. And it meant a lot to be. And the other writers were sort of like, Oh, cool. Sounds like a new show and they didn't care. And stuff like that, like this means to me. Uh, yeah, I actually moved to L A to become a writer, sort of in quotes. Like I said, I didn't go to film school, so it wasn't like I'm going out to write TV. I just sort of went to because my best friend from high school was going going to grad school at U S. C. And he's like, Hey, I'm going to grad school. You always wanted to live in L. A. Right, And we get it. I just went with him. So wow, Yeah, I was like I applied to be a pH like agencies and stuff or just like wherever, Like, I'll just like I'm no work it, Sony or something like that will get an internship, and I really luckily happened upon breakdown, which I didn't really know existed or had no idea how to look for it and got my assistant position there for right away. So it's really cool that actually get my hands on something like that. And ah, and yeah, it's it's pretty amazing trying to think of the other big ones. Okay, I will say that I read Trailer just came out, so don't even know if you missed it. It's literally was, like two days ago.

spk_0:   39:57
You know, I'm on the edge of my seat.

spk_1:   39:59
There's a new movie called Green Book, and it stars Mahershala Ali and Viggo Mortensen. I have not seen crypt. I've put that in one of the best scripts I've ever read in my life.

spk_0:   40:09
Really good. Okay, I'm

spk_1:   40:12
very, very excited to see that. And I hope it's very good. And I hope people love it because it was a wonderful, wonderful read. Um, I don't know. You

spk_0:   40:23
know, you've got my mind working, like every time I'm ready to see a movie or something, I'm gonna hit you up and be like, what is decent out there right now? Because you will Nothing.

spk_1:   40:33
There's so many, and they're so many times. And there's been a few where it's like, you know, and sometimes like Like I said, it's not about the script or the like, how good it will be in the end, because it's all a process of like, maybe they just crush it on the art direction and things like worthwhile thing to watch has nothing to do with the script. Eso Sometimes a coworker will just be like I don't know what that was like. That was kind of weird. And then it goes on and big, and also all seven of us are in there are just like, wow, who knew, just, like, didn't expect it or barely remember doing it and then the movies out. And we have to go like, Wow, this trailer is getting a lot of buzz and then I search in our system and, like, wow, Okay, yeah, someone broke that down like five years ago. And then

spk_0:   41:18
well, I imagine the execution is important. You know that you can probably if you have a really great director, If you have some really great cast, you could make a lot of really terrible even scripts, probably into something great.

spk_1:   41:30
Yeah, it's there sometimes where? Like I said, where it's just like this show is difficult to do. We're not mad at it. It's not bad in bed quality. I can't possibly say that. The show's air bad quality. They are written by very, very talented professionals. But from our like, weird perspective on it, the one time anyone's gonna go at this script with an angle of a breakdown writer, it's like huh, This is a lot like, uh, my favorite is the younger versions of characters I'm always like. Oh, no. Oh, no. I have to track three versions of the same character. Okay, got Kate at nine years old and Kate at 11 and Kate at 17 years old, and then I'm like, in the panic, but

spk_0:   42:09
that that just that alone is very interesting. The whole idea of younger cast members are younger characters like them when they were kids kind of thing. Because sometimes you see that And unlike, wow, this person I fucking believe it. Like, they really could be this person grown up. And then sometimes they cast people, and I'm like, where did you? Uh, I just don't see it.

spk_1:   42:35
Are we just doing a quick, quick, little silent flashback and you just have to be like a little blonde girl, and that's gonna cut it, Or is this gonna be like, a lead role in itself? And they have to really, really nail it. But yeah, it's totally upto casting directors and producers and how important the role is and stuff like that. You don't get that pay. Everyone's where you're gonna pay someone so much money for a small part. Blah, blah, blah. Yeah, it's Ah, it's a very intricate system. It's really, really like to me, knowing my own side of it, like my own little little portion of this entire process. To get a movie made is pretty technical and pretty detailed, and sometimes we'll work on. We'll do versions of things like 16 times. Maybe we just keep editing. Maybe they put it out and it doesn't get this admissions that they want, where the role changed a little bit. And then you know what? We have to open this up to more types of people or were changing the descriptions and stuff like a lot goes into just finding enough people toe audition for a role that it boggles my mind to think of all the other steps. So, like I been hearing about all that, my girlfriend is a graphic designer. She's in the Art Directors Guild, the union, and works on TV and film, and she's a graphic designer and and she sometimes like she does a lot of beautiful work, but sometimes she's like making parking signs. You know, like there's gonna be a no parking sign in the background of the shot and we need to make one, and they stick it on a sign. And it's just like what? Like, who thinks of that when they watch TV or a show like you ever think like they're standing in a parking lot and they're talking or whatever, and there's like a you know, like a cheap looking hole in the wall pizza place. Someone designed and invented a pizza place and put up a banner,

spk_0:   44:24
and I'm not even high right now and you're just blowing my fuckinmind right now. Honestly, because this is the type of shit I think about. This is part of the reason I wanted to do this whole a day in the life Siri's because that, like I try to look at the world in that sense, like when I see commercials on TV that I find, like, captivating, I really dissect him like, damn, what did it look like when they were putting together like the storyboards for this? What did the initial sketches look like? How many different people are involved in this and now, like hearing your side of it, Hearing about that graphic design aspect? This is just one more reason why I'm gonna be ultra curious about everything I see in movies and stuff. Now,

spk_1:   45:07
yeah, it's changed the way I watch things to some degree. You know me watching a movie with my girlfriend and, like I read a script for blockers and I was watching the movie and I was like,

spk_0:   45:20
How cool

spk_1:   45:20
they like, change that character. Let's not the version I read. Wow, they this scene is completely new or something like that. And then my girlfriend's like,

spk_0:   45:28
Oh, pretty good,

spk_1:   45:29
like production on that like Coaster. Oh, I wasn't even thinking about that side, and there's just so much to see. And then you get in a room with more than four people from the industry and you're like, What? I mean, it's the same. Thing is it's like it helps me be a little more open minded toe like the actual processes of everything in every industry and to say stuff like, Well, that job's easy is like, Well, no, it's not. I can guarantee, you know, job is easy and I'm not. I'm you know, I'm never gonna assume someone's thing is super, super simple. And I'm workin like a creative field. I guess you know, I'm a liberal arts to create working in my field and writing and stuff like that. And then I talked to friends and they're like, software design people. And I'm like, I don't even know what you guys are saying. I genuinely don't know what you were talking about. And yeah, you can You can be really, really smart at one thing. You're good at your job. Absolutely no idea how detailed something is, but it's cool. It's really crazy. Yeah, I learned a lot. I've seen a lot and I get you know, there's the shows we do, that they're gonna be the way they are, and I know that I go in. It's very easy for me to do it. And then occasionally we get one that really changes my perspective on something or tells a story. I get

spk_0:   46:50
to read

spk_1:   46:50
stories all day. That's the coolest part's rise. I literally

spk_0:   46:54
just ran a fucking job. Yeah, what makes you mad at your job? You you You're not saying it's easy, right? But it's it's It's simple in concept. Like what you do. So what? What frustrates you When when do you go home after work and you slam the door on your way in? Like what actually does get frustrating about your job.

spk_1:   47:16
Well, you know, there's bureaucratic stuff in every job, and, you know, we work in an office and I don't want to just, like, really, really complain about that. I'll put it on. I'll try to be a good guy and put it on myself and try to find one of my weaknesses.

spk_0:   47:30
Okay,

spk_1:   47:31
I get a little frustrated, um, with myself or just you know, like I don't want to do this show because I'm not good at this stuff, but stuff that's like, what? I don't know enough about the, uh, job that this person does. Okay, and then I have a tough time describing them. And I'm not gonna really like bomb because I know if anything, I just describe their personality and I don't mention what they dio. But sometimes it's important to say what they do because it can give a better picture of their interactions, the way they interact with people. Or or this person behaves because there are a boss or this person behave because they're they're a lower level employees. But

spk_0:   48:10
sorry, it's just the way they look. I could see that that kind of factoring in

spk_1:   48:15
Yeah, so so And this worries me all the time. Is that like I'll just say their job title and I won't know what that means, and I just hope that, like, that's enough. And then I'll just go with a character description. That's a much heavy on personality, but like a lot of like politics, stuff like heavy business, side of things or just like weird, you know, if something's really, really detailed and it ran a writer, you know, did amazing research on something they're gonna like. Show that off and they're gonna be true and they're not gonna like it's not like a Helen make stuff up. You can't like makeup, science and things like that without, like, you know, like putting a negative spin on your script or something like that. So I don't know that you like politics. I'm like, I don't know what the assistant director, director, attorney of the blah blah, blah. And I'm like, okay. And I just like, right? Agent, sometimes, you know, like, they are important agent.

spk_0:   49:11
I don't know why,

spk_1:   49:12
but that's what they are. And I always feel a little self conscious where I'm just like, I bet one of the other writers you know, a little older than be a little wiser than me would like, better understand this character because of that job. Whereas I just see them. Is this, like, politician or a lawyer type? I don't fully know what they dio

spk_0:   49:33
is a collaborative environment that you could reach out to one of those other writers and be like, you understand this job like, what the fuck is this

spk_1:   49:42
right, Right. Of course. Like, I will get that. Like I'm not gonna be wrong in their job title. I'm not going to call someone of lawyer when they are, you know, like a governor or something like that. You know, it's like I said, We're like you were talking about when it's just about knowing that full project from the roof. Like what? How does this impact the way they carry themselves? Or are they gonna interact with another character differently? If I don't really understand how this interacts and you know, I get through it and it's not a big deal because I can just talk about them and literally how they act and not say a word about what they do in the script. And it's all okay because that's eventually what matters. And like I said, some casting directors don't want

spk_0:   50:26
plot e. I

spk_1:   50:28
don't want you to call them anything, and they just say, like he's mean. I'm like, Great, That's it. But yeah, that could be That could be tough where I feel like I have to just know about everything because scripts congee about anything, and that's always that's

spk_0:   50:43
got to make your job interesting, though, because you get a little bit of insight into so many different walks of life. So many different types of jobs and interactions because movies and shows and stuff are largely based on stuff that is happening.

spk_1:   51:00
Yeah, And I I think one of my skills is beating so obsessed with just opening a new tab and Googling anything I don't understand. You try to do that as much as possible. It like conversations with people. It also makes you sound like you know what they're saying to you, because

spk_0:   51:17
you just

spk_1:   51:18
immediately googled it. But I'll get into stuff like, I'll read a script that's based on a true story. And I'm like, Hold up, hold up. What? All this is real and I'll go read about it. And by you know, I'm procrastinating a little, but by reading a massive Wikipedia article, I now, like, go back to the script and going Oh, okay. Oh, and I know Maur there, So I just know Then people, you know, you talk about the news or like, an event that happened. I'm like, Yes, I do know all about that. And I realize when I say yes that I do know what that is. I'm saying yes, because I read it in a script. I paid attention in school or something.

spk_0:   51:55
Okay, You got that information somehow.

spk_1:   51:58
Yeah, yeah, it did get into my brain and I'll do a little research myself, but yeah, it could be really fascinating of just like, Ah, true true story. I read a new feature coming out with Michael B. Jordan about a true story. He plays a real person, and I think that's gonna be amazing. But it was it was huge. And it because it connected to something that was very, like, topical in recent. And I didn't realize that, like, Oh, no, I know that happened in the news, but I didn't realize the background was a fascinating person who's been doing stuff like this for 20 years. And I'm like, Whoa, I didn't know that they were associated with this case or something like that. So yeah, it could be really, really cool. I can learn a lot, and sometimes you learn about something super, super weird you were never gonna look into or just iss subcultures and things like that. You know, you're

spk_0:   52:49
such a great fucking job, though.

spk_1:   52:53
Yeah. I mean, for the most part, Yeah, I'm like like it's ah, it's a desk job when I get a little bored and I need to go walk around and just stretch my legs, and I said in one place for a while. But any time someone asks like you, I'm just saying No, there is a lot to talk about. There's a lot of cool stuff, and, uh, yeah, it's It's also easy to remember all the cool things I read and I just block out the boring stuff and I can. I'm really good at turning my brain off just right, right in those bouncers, those security guards that are going through the warehouse going, Hey, who's there? And then something drops down from the ceiling and rips them up on their flashlight, falls and hits the ground rules around in a circle. I'm very good at just cranking those descriptions out. So

spk_0:   53:33
it's so cool that you that you're in this position and you get to learn all the time. That's that's like one of the things that I think everyone should have in their life is is something that forces them to constantly be learning. And not everyone has that like that. That really is so valuable gives you an opportunity. I'm sure, to connect with people in all kinds of different levels when you meet them.

spk_1:   53:57
Oh, I have to say, since you're since you're bringing that up, I gotta talk about this, But I'm ready. Ah, weird side. Not weird, but aside. I didn't expect when I went into this job and when I moved up to a writer that didn't expect was learning how to describe and treat everyone who was different than me and not just like I pride myself on being very like, uh, you know, paying attention to those things like, for example, getting people's pronounce right and stuff like that. And I pride myself on that. I've been conscious of it for a while. I had a moment where I was a dumb idiot in college and went, Oh, wait, I gotta, like, shape up here And I was really good about that. I was really adamant about it, and then we had a meeting at work with glad it's G L A. D. And I forget the full acronym. They helped represent and help change and help everyone in the industry with transgender l L G B, T Q. Everything, and they will represent actors or and there is another group I wish I could think of the acronym that represents actors with disabilities, you know, like wheelchair and stuff like that. Like any physical disability, any mental disability. There's actors that are portraying those roles, and it's amazing. And we have this awesome meeting where we just went through all the terms, you know, and it's like, You know, you're not just like throwing out all the bad words and stuff. I was like, Okay, I was not up to speed. There's a lot of changes happening with terminology in the last three months that we have to stay on top of, and it became this new initiative for all of our breakdowns to be as good as possible. And we're all like everyone. There is wonderful people. There's been no issues. It's not like like a breakdown goes out. You're like, Oh

spk_0:   55:50
my God,

spk_1:   55:51
it shouldn't have said that, But it can always be better. And now it's our huge, huge prerogative to, like, really, really nail that. And I met a guy from glad who just like explained what it's like for, you know, like for for actors trying to get roles and how difficult it is and how often times. Even today, you've got roles that are not really great or like, for example, like sex workers are always painted as, like abilities, you know, like how many scripts you know where. It's just like the the woman on the street, and it's clearly bad. And, you know, they have, like, an awful roll. It doesn't display them as a human being is just like a prop in a crime show or something like that. And how all of that like how a lot of those rules get displayed, for example, like it's been a really new thing for unfortunately, that, like gay and lesbian characters, are no longer just like in the script for the plot of the fact that they are gay, you know? Yeah, it's Oh, here's this. This person is in the script because we're going to talk about this person being gay this episode. It's just that they are, And then the truth. That's the truth. And they go about doing all the things. And it's not always about their sexuality as this plot or as this, like device, you know what I mean? And so yes, so we just had this awesome meeting and I and I actually was told they mentioned a script that it just came out a story that's coming out and they're like, Did you guys read this and was like, Oh, I read that and they're like, remember this character and I'm like, Yes, it was a confusing character because, well, to be honest, the script didn't portray it that well, so I had a difficult time like describing it, and I was like, I don't fully know what they're going for here. And it turns out that Glad had talked to that company that those producers and stuff like that and they had changed the role quite a bit before it went out. I was like, Wow, that's amazing that they are that in touch with everything and can help make rules not so exploitative and things that

spk_0:   57:57
I was just going to say. I mean, it sounds like they have a very valuable part in this to make sure that that people aren't being cast as a prop versus as a person who happens to also be gay or disabled or whatever.

spk_1:   58:12
Yeah, it's really amazing because you see it in all of our descriptions coming through because we don't write every single one and be impossible. Sometimes casting directors have them ready to go, and we put him out and you see him. Everyone's using the new terminology, or

spk_0:   58:26
maybe we'll fix

spk_1:   58:27
it and they'll be like, Oh, cool, thank you. You know, they're not like,

spk_0:   58:29
yeah,

spk_1:   58:30
you know, they're They're not like mad that we we call him on it, you know, they're just like, Oh, I didn't know how to say that, Thank you so much. And then the next time they sent a breakdown in, they've got all the all the terminology and stuff for, like, great thumbs up everyone. So that's been really cool, and it's been cool to see that sort of change. It's been a really big initiative in the industry recently, and, you know, there's still problems and they're still times where I just go in and I'm like, Okay, that's how they're described in the script. But I'm gonna make a different description. It might break down to just, you know, nail that and, you know, like call. And it comes down to the simple things like, you know, every every woman who's not white is exotic like I'm not gonna use the word exotic and my breakdowns. It's a real simple thing for me to just find other adjectives, but that's just like that's the classic one and and that's that's obviously getting a lot better. But yeah, that's been one of the more prideful sides of the job. And that when I didn't expect, is that I can have an impact in the way people are described human beings or described, and the way that rolls are described to make people want to play them, to make, to give a lot of other people representation on the screen. And I think that's been, well, the coolest side effect. Yeah,

spk_0:   59:43
yeah, I mean, that really is great. You you mentioned a little bit earlier, too, that sometimes you get some of these descriptions and you're some of these scripts and you're like I just don't even know what you're trying to say here. What happens if you do get stuck? Do you just put something kind of brief together? Or do you? You have the ability to go back and talk to the writer, or do you just talk to your other people in your office? What do you do when you are suck?

spk_1:   1:0:08
Yeah, well, when it comes down to, like the like I said, the plot, this is their title or that's what their job is. It's ultimately something that's going to get red before it goes out. Like we will never publish anything to the world for agents to submit until it's been approved and stuff like that. So a lot of the times I can very easily and it's not a lot of work on my part. Go. All right. So I'm gonna go with this and I'm thinking I'm nailing this character. I'm doing my best and if they want to adjust it, be my guest. That's why I'm super comfortable with anyone just taking a red pen to my writing and tearing it up because they know, you know, they want the creative side of us to pull out these personalities. But when it comes down to the casting like they're going to know if this person is 35 or 55 or you know, male, female or what, so they'll give us those details. Sometimes there is definitely opportunities, right? Just ask a casting director and they'll send it in and they'll say, Hey, break this one down Let us know if you have any questions and we're like, Great, we got it, We're on it. You'll see in a few hours and we'll just send him an email like, Hey, so this character is Ah, a little vague or like, Is this person cast? Is there already an actor playing this cause it's referring to them from old episodes or something like that. We'll just sort of investigate. And, ah, yes, we have, Ah, good relationship with all the clients and enough passes and sometimes, like we send a breakdown back, I see it in three weeks, and they're like, We're ready, I think. Oh, I forgot. I read this script and they've got all their changes. Or sometimes we do re reads. They'll say, like some scripts just stay in development hell for a long time. Some scripts air like we get it in there like this

spk_0:   1:1:57
is

spk_1:   1:1:57
from 2012 because have, like, a a newer draft, and they're like, No, we're gonna we're going for it and stuff or they'll say, Hey, you guys broke this down But it's gone through a tone of changes. So I'll get it back and I'll do a re reading. I'm like, Oh, this character is gone or this character is entirely different. This is a brand new scene and stuff like that and they still need to know how many lines like I said and all that sort of thing. So there is a lot of changes in a lot of, ah, steps and processes. And some casting directors are just like you did amazing Release it. I'm like, Really? Are you sure you're good with this? All right, because I'm putting it up there and and sometimes it's just change after change after change, little tweaks to make it look kind of different than when it started. But it's all about really, really nailing what they want to get in their submissions in their in their talent. And yeah, I mean, they've got to find the right the right person to play it. And sometimes you know, the classic story of like, well, this part was written for so and so, But this person came in and they just nailed it. And then the role changes from there and and I had described the old person and someone completely different. I think a good example is that do you watch? Have you ever watched how I met your mother?

spk_0:   1:3:13
I've watched a little bit of it. And every time I watch an episode, I'm like, Why the fuck do I not watch more of the show is a close. Good.

spk_1:   1:3:21
Yeah. So the role of Barney, played by Neil Patrick Harris was hilarious. Amazing

spk_0:   1:3:28
and a total creative

spk_1:   1:3:30
big creep. Real gross. But it's fine. But that role was described as like a jack black type. Like he was supposed to

spk_0:   1:3:39
be a little bit

spk_1:   1:3:40
like I'm just a dude who goes to bars and drinks and talks to girls and, like, a little bit crazy, a little zany.

spk_0:   1:3:46
And then he became like a refined creep. Yeah,

spk_1:   1:3:50
yeah, they didn't have that idea. But Neil Patrick Harris read it, and it's just in a perfect suit. And is this, like, perfect, handsome man? And they're like, Wow, this is This is amazing And they went with it. So that's just that's the whole magic of the casting room that we probably wrote a description for that character and called him a slob or whatever so it can change in at 50 different points from the time the scripts written to when it actually gets to the screen. So,

spk_0:   1:4:18
man, that's so It's so interesting and I've always had, like, a great respect for casting, but I didn't realize how much went into the work even before casting started. You know, sometimes you watch a show or a movie, and it's like, Damn, I don't know who half of these people are, but they did an incredible job on casting. Those people worked so well together like I've felt Batch,

spk_1:   1:4:41
you know, when you say stuff like no one, no one else could have been that person or it's really funny. Like like there's those, like top 10 YouTube videos, just like 10 actors that almost played big roles. Big rolls. Okay, great. Yeah, they're very famous, but no, like they could not have been. That person is so attached and honestly, because they can change because this is the script can be just different or an actor just nails it. They change everything about a movie to fit one person, but we as viewers and as fans are attached and it feels good on We're just like, yes, So, like, for me, I always think about like I'm a huge emcee, you guy and I'm just like Robert Downey Jr as Iron Man is literally the most perfect thing that's ever been

spk_0:   1:5:30
doing. Yeah, I think there's, like

spk_1:   1:5:33
40 like a list dudes who probably would have been great, who knows, could have been amazing. But like I look at that and like, No, there's no alternate realities and this there's no alternate universes where someone else plays Iron Man and it works. You know, it's just Robert Downey Jr. And that's just the fun of, you know, being into a movie and stuff, and I

spk_0:   1:5:54
know it would

spk_1:   1:5:54
be different, but you get those feelings. You're just like I don't want to feel any different. They did a good job, and that's that's good casting. That's good. Um, I don't think anyone broke down Iron Man it. Art

spk_0:   1:6:06
had our

spk_1:   1:6:06
company. I don't think anyone described marvels too big. They don't let anything out. There's no I can imagine no releases on our site for that. So But yeah, I was just perfect, and that's that's what's all about.

spk_0:   1:6:18
You know what one of the movies that comes to mind when we're talking about all of this and how some people I feel like they just they just got the perfect people for it. Odd Thomas.

spk_1:   1:6:29
I'm not even familiar.

spk_0:   1:6:30
So I read all of the Dean Koons books. That's what it's based on on Thomas's thing, this really cool character and in the books he's described in relative, relatively good detail on Dhe, then his love interest. Stormy Lewellyn is this like, sassy, kind of eccentric girl who is just super smart and, like, kind of keeps him like they're just this perfect couple, right? The cast. Anton Yeldon recipes So San as odd. Thomas. I don't know the name of the the actress that played Stormy Lewellyn, but when that movie ended, I was just like, yeah, that was because they had picked anyone else for that. I would have flipped the table because if they would have ruined storm his character, I would have been so angry and him as Thomas as this kind of like fast talking, very smart, but very chill dude like it was just perfect. And now you have to watch that movie honest.

spk_1:   1:7:26
Yes, I d'oh Also like Anton, So yeah, yeah, it's funny cause you get the ones that people will just debate till this day. And then it's just totally subjective in the end, too. Like everyone says her Miami in Harry Potter's, she's described as frizzy and awkward and stuff like that. She's not this pretty girl, but then you have Emma Watson, but you're like it's like, in my opinion, I'm like, But that's perfect. Yeah, she became her mind. He's like That was it, That was it. And they're like Harry Potter's awkward and dumber goofy looking. And it's like you have a Daniel Radcliffe. Is Harry Potter. Yes, it works, and it's for me. It feels right, and they grew into those roles, and but But they'll forever debate it, and you can't decide, like, well, that good casting or bad casting. If it's got people debating, I might lean towards good in that case, but yeah, I mean, it's totally subjective. In the end, I bet there's someone listening that thinks there's a better iron man out there, but they'd be wrong.

spk_0:   1:8:23
Yeah, you're wrong. If you're listening and you think there's a better Iron Man False.

spk_1:   1:8:27
Yeah, you got that classic story that everyone shows up on Reddit every other day about how John Krasinski was almost Captain America.

spk_0:   1:8:34
Oh, my gosh. My brain just broke.

spk_1:   1:8:37
Oh, yeah, He There's something about the story is told a different time or different way every time. But that he was in the suit, actually actually got to that point where they're putting people. And he said that he saw This is there's, like, four versions of this story, but the one is that he saw Chris Hemsworth walked by in the floor costume and he was like, Holy shit, that's four. And then the other version of the story is that he was gonna be was auditioning for Captain America is one of the finalists, and his agent called him is like they went with Chris Evans. And then John Krasinski was like, Yeah, of course in America was like, Yeah, he is. He's Captain America.

spk_0:   1:9:18
I can see why people would be on like like team Krasinski there, though, because he doesn't have that. I don't even know you're You're a writer. You can You can tell me here like the the sense or the feeling you get When you look at both of their faces like Chris Evans vs him, they've got that like, kind of like sweetness to them. They're so wholesome. Yes,

spk_1:   1:9:39
cap is so obnoxiously wholesome. He's such a nice guy, and it's it drives people insane. But that's exactly what Chris Stephens is, and it's It's very much what John Krasinski can be.

spk_0:   1:9:51
Yeah, just have very expressive faces to, uh, well, you see them react to something sad or bad and you're like, all I want to hug you right now.

spk_1:   1:10:00
Yeah, and you can see them like making those decisions of just never never giving up what's right. You're like, Yeah, they can both do that when it comes down to it. It's just I know Chris Evans is probably just buffer. I don't know,

spk_0:   1:10:12
a decent in the past. He was, I don't know. I know. I know. Kaczynski is getting pretty swallow these days,

spk_1:   1:10:19
since he's Ah, Jack Ryan. Now I think it's like, Yeah, I guess he's finding something to show off that he was pretty swollen, a quiet place to

spk_0:   1:10:28
what a great fucking movie.

spk_1:   1:10:30
Yeah, I don't think we read that because there was no roles in it at work, so that didn't come through a breakdown. Service is

spk_0:   1:10:36
I'll make some together only what? Five. There's

spk_1:   1:10:40
like two lines in the whole movie, but wow, Yeah, Yeah, it goes. It goes so many different directions. I'm trying to think if there's one or I could even say where I was, like not what I expected. But you know, not enough has come out and I can't possibly watch everything I read. So

spk_0:   1:10:57
that attitude No, John look

spk_1:   1:11:00
too did a pretty good job, I think.

spk_0:   1:11:02
Oh, yeah, that was That was a great fucking movie. I'm excited now for three. Cause Chiana was great, like, really was the perfect one for that role. I can't picture anyone else's John Wick.

spk_1:   1:11:13
Yeah, I read, Um, another fun. One that I saw immediately was the disaster artist because I'm a huge, huge fan of Tommy Rizzo in the room. I read. I read that book that that Greg wrote about the room and and then the script came in and I was like, Oh, my God, I just read this book. I'm reading the script immediately, and I went and saw the movie. But that was also like they're going to cast every comedian in the books, get it? So it's not so much like a who interprets this role, But that was that was a cool one to see, to go to the theatre with friends, to be like Oh, yeah, I read the script is pretty cool. So now it's for a while.

spk_0:   1:11:54
Now you're in this the super dope job you've got your podcasts you've got You've got all this different stuff. You D'oh! Do you Do you feel fulfilled with this? Is this like what you want to be doing long term? Or is there like a next step up from here that you're hoping to get to someday? Honestly, I think

spk_1:   1:12:11
there's a next step. Absolutely. Um, I like the stability of what I do so much. That's another thing that I won't rant about or ramble about is the just like the different jobs in the industry. A lot of it's freelance. A lot of it is just like find a new project. I mean, if you work on a commercial, it's done in three days, you gotta find something else to do, and I could have gone that route and I know people who are really, really good at that route and have made good careers like they came out to L. A the same time as me. And we're just working 14 hour days on set, getting people coffee, and now they're helping to make the decisions and stuff like that. Yeah, and it could have gone that route, but my mental state have been ready for it, or I would have been a little tired or it would have maybe not fallen in love with anything. I don't know, but I can appreciate the stability. I've had to just go to the same place every day and with people I know and respect and love and sit there and work. And it's like, Yeah, this is good. It's nice to have this in, Ah, in an industry that's so just always churning s o for that I really love it. But But yeah, I know now that I've read 400 scripts orm or I'm kind of interested in doing other things, I've also kind of considered jumping into other industries. You know, I don't know what my writerly skills can can offer and other places or just continue in the meantime, to pursue my hobby stuff, which is really what's great about having a steady day job is that I have a home and record podcasts and it's just for fun. And that's Ah, that's really cool. But my schedule is busy with I work weird hours. It's like 10 to 6 30 I get home at 7 30 I'm always grumpy about that. We'll see. But for now, it's really fulfilling and it's really great. And I have health insurance. So no complaints here. Yea, 2018

spk_0:   1:14:07
way could talk about that for a long time.

spk_1:   1:14:11
You got another hour?

spk_0:   1:14:13
Well, so you know what I find really fascinated. Fascinating about this too. One of the things that that we talk about in my stream a lot is t like, kind of put together a general outline of what you want out of life and then just work, explore to try some new things and see where it leads you. And when you said that you went out to L. A wanting to be a writer, that was it. It wasn't. I want to be a TV writer. I want to be a script writer. I want to be a description writer. You just knew you wanted to write. And this job you didn't even know existed that only five fucking people were doing. And now six are just kind of happened.

spk_1:   1:14:57
Yeah, it did. It really did it. And I'm really, really, like, lucky. Honestly, because it was personal relationships that sort of got my resume to this place, or I wouldn't have stumbled on it in time. I don't think, um, they actually hired someone else. And then he quit within a month and they call me back. I wasn't even the first pick on dhe. The writers love to tell me that, like they voted for me all along. But thank you. Thank you. But, um yeah. And also, I went into it and worked for a year as, ah, someone who just made changes on breakdowns, was edited or or put other pre written breakdowns out, just made tweaks and sent emails and answered phones on. And I didn't really think that there was no, like, prompt promise or premise of, like, Yes, start this and you'll move up. But they created a new position and and asked me and that was really cool, and I'm very lucky once again. So yeah, it's It's been it's been great. And there's times where I'm always like All right, well, I need to see more. I need to do more. I know I don't wantto spend every day waking up at 5 a.m. to go get coffee on a set, but I don't know, maybe I should At some point, maybe I should get out there and maybe I should write more of my own scripts, which I've always wanted to do. And I've done a few things for fun. I definitely have, like, final draft saves on my computer uplink scripts I've started, but

spk_0:   1:16:21
that's all.

spk_1:   1:16:22
Yeah, there's so much to do and exploring and being a writer in L. A is like, What does that mean? And, ah, there's that There's other venues out there and I've considered, you know, going to like the publishing world and stuff like that. Happy writing. There's so much. So I just had to decide when I'm ready for that leap. But I think another the cool thing about, you know, just being able to have a job or like you said, just like set of a goal, even if it's vague, doesn't have to be the most precise thing. Just, like, pursue an interest like I did with the podcast. And I was like, Yeah to strangers and read it. Sure all sounds fun, like, Let's do a show. And it has, like, completely changed my life in, uh, in an insane way. And that was just like a kind of, like, spur of the moment put myself out there in a social scenario I wouldn't have probably done before that, and I'm not sure why I did it anyways, but it pays off. So yeah, I just like it doesn't have to be this. It's manifesto off, like, here are the 10 steps I'm going to take over. The next

spk_0:   1:17:26
year has become who

spk_1:   1:17:27
I want to just do it.

spk_0:   1:17:29
I'm not. I'm not

spk_1:   1:17:30
planned enough to have those kind of those decisions. I'm not, like, stable and planned and precise enough to go out and set those goals nice and vague, and I'm all I'm all for it. Nice invade.

spk_0:   1:17:43
It's just it's just great because this, Like I said, this is something we talk about so frequently because I have people come in all the time who are just like, Well, what am I good at? I'm not. I can't find another job. There's nothing. The only thing I'm qualified for is this. And they get these like, very stuck mentalities, where it's like, Well, I'm only able to do this. This is what I'm good for. This is what I've learned in school. But this this is what I keep telling people, is to come up with that general idea and you convey base, that general idea, off of things that you like, things that you're decently good out and see where it goes and, like, that's That's what you did. You knew that you wanted to be a writer. You were good at it. You did some studying and the job that you have you didn't even know existed. The job you might have in 10 years, you might not know exists Now it's it's exciting, and I think it's encouraging.

spk_1:   1:18:36
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. There's there's no way it happens without just like having a little friendliness and just like going for it and just saying like if someone offers an opportunity like it was for me, like Hey, I can send your resume over here. I'm like, absolutely do it. I don't know what that means, but

spk_0:   1:18:54
thank

spk_1:   1:18:54
you. You know, just like having that like openness to it is really the only thing that made me get anywhere so far. And, um, it's funny us if I'm, like, fulfilled and I think, like, Yeah, I don't want to be at this desk for the rest of my life And there's gotta be something else I want to do because I'm all about exploring. But I think what's funny is that, like when I think about it a little bit more, I have pretty fulfilled because I think, like I said, one of the coolest parts was that whole thing where I learned a different way Thio to look at shows or like who's getting represented on on shows And what do these characters mean? And can I Can I lift them up? And can I, you know, like do a good job as hard as I can to describe this character so that they don't become a cliche and I think like that gives me a little bit more reason, and I feel like I can you know, like, have my little touch on the entertainment industry by choosing what words I describe and I think it like to me, it feels like like what you do. It's like, you know, being a streamer. But then taking it a moment farther to, like, really connect with people or talk about things that are hard to talk about. It's like That's amore, right? That's the job. Title doesn't necessarily change, but that's like more to get from it. Yeah, filling. And that's what makes me feel good. And I respect you a lot for doing that. And it's just like you can get something Maur out of a job or, ah, a gig. You know, if it's temporary and you're just doing it because you gotta pay rent, we all gotta pay rent. But you can get more out of it if you can. If you can find a little bit more to do or just like, put your own personal touch on on a job, even if on the resume your description is maybe the same as other people's, so there's always more to get from it.

spk_0:   1:20:37
Yeah, I agree, and it's cool that you've gained so much perspective from this because that's one of the things I think Twitch has done the most for me, like four. Just I have gained so much fucking perspective. I did not realize how wrong I waas about so many things until I was exposed to this global perspective daily. Yeah, it's it's seriously is mind blowing. It really is in, like I'm in the same position as you are, dude. Years ago, all I knew is what I was good at. And I knew that I wanted to help people in some way. That was all I kept in mind. Is this general idea Somehow I'm gonna help people. I don't know how the fuck I'm gonna do it, but I want that to be my life. And then switch happened, and it didn't appear in the beginning as a place where I was going to be able to help people, but it it turned into that, and I kind of helped shape it into that in the same way like you take your job and you get some of these scripts where you could just look at me like I don't understand this, but you take that extra step and you go get lost on Google for awhile. I think that's awesome.

spk_1:   1:21:40
I love Google. I know it changes my life. It really does. But yeah, yeah, it's It's a surreal thing to realize. Like it just looks on the surface level, like just something to do sometimes. And then there's this. There's so much more to it, and you're never gonna find out if you're not like down for trying it out, even if it sounds boring. Initially, I got a job because I needed to pay rent. I worked at a desk and I was like, Whoa, there's a lot happening here. There's a lot to think about. And there's a lot that I challenged myself to think about on a daily basis now, and it can at least, like, be proud of for improving myself in the process, which is definitely the case. Yeah, there's so much

spk_0:   1:22:21
and it's cool. Like, you know, I think the fact that you were so open is probably a good reason why they went from five breakdown writers to six because a lot of people could go into that same role. You were in where you were in kind of this administrative role, and they would look at it and be like, Well, I'm never gonna be one of these. They only have five of them. So you know, it's a thankless job. I just do bullshit. I'm not happy here. And I think with a lot of people in their jobs, they do that whole like, Well, that's above my pay scale thing, or what do I care? I'll never be in that role. Why should I learn about any other aspect of this business? But like this is a great example of why? Because you never know you being open to those possibilities and learning more and doing as much extra as you can when you see it available might mean you get to be the fifth breakdown or the sixth breakdown writer like That's That's really cool.

spk_1:   1:23:16
Yeah, and I need to take my own like advice and learn from my own experience because earlier I said stuff like, I don't know where my writerly skills apply if I wanted to jump around, but that's part of figuring out a new job. Anyways. Everyone has different sets of skills, but like there's times around like I worry that I'm not as fast as the other writers who have been doing it a long time. Like I don't process thes scripts is quickly. Or maybe I just, like, read a little slower. I should be skimming because we have too much work to do or something like that. And every time I think about that, I'm like, Oh, no, I'm, like, kind of slower at this, uh, and writing and typing and stuff like that. But at the same time, like, I know I've been able to change the room itself in the process, in my own ways, by being really tech savvy, you're bringing that like, youthful, youthful vibe of just like speeding through our our workflow and adjusting the way we know Tate things and all that sort of thing. So I know I've had my my own impact on it and like you asked if we just sort of, like, ask the room, we absolutely d'oh! And there's plenty of times where I'm answering the question. If this like, what does d t f mean? Okay on. I'm always answering those questions

spk_0:   1:24:30
like great I can I

spk_1:   1:24:31
can offer something here and I can, actually, even if it's silly sometimes. Oh, yeah. There's so many things to offer a room of complete, different people that you you're not gonna know until you're in the air and it comes up.

spk_0:   1:24:46
You just sort of flashback. I was watching something, so I was adopted by my grandparent's, right. So my parents are like most people my age is grand parents age. So I was watching a show with my mom when I was younger. I was probably in, like, high school or something. But you know, this this world is perverse. You learn stuff very early on. We're watching cheaters. I don't know how we wound up on this fucking show, but we're watching cheaters together in the middle of the day, and this woman finds out that her husband is cheating on her with a dominatrix. And my mom asked what is a dominatrix? And I was just like, uh how do I explain this? And then after that, how do I explain why I know this and you don't like That is terrible position to be in

spk_1:   1:25:33
Wikipedia. I don't

spk_0:   1:25:34
know. Oh, my gosh. Okay, so, so going. Going back to all of this, though. One of the things I enjoy doing with these a day in the life is take a moment to share some wisdom. What what wisdom can you share and any any perspective on anything like, Do you want to give some life advice some career advice? If you could just spread, like share 11 solid message out of this, what do you want to tell people listening?

spk_1:   1:26:03
Well, so we both, you know, work on the Internet. We talked about making things better on the Internet. I've been known to take a more pessimistic approach, so I have a motto where I usually say that everything you did in life previously should be embarrassing. But that's more of like a self deprecating thing of when I was a dumb idiot in college, and I thought it was a good person, really. It's so put to put a better spin on that Is that like you can always improve? And I've learned that a lot in the last five years, and I've learned that, you know, even when I had a big personal change, that there's still a lot to learn. So I always think of like knowing that you can't improve, but it doesn't have to be a bad thing. It doesn't. It doesn't mean you're doesn't mean you're in the negative and you've got to get up to zero to be neutral. And then good person like you can be in the positives. But there's always more room to grow. There's a There's a Japanese word for that phenomenon that I just learned, and I cannot remember. It would probably butcher it in anyways, but it's the literal act of always knowing you can always be a little bit better because self improvement never stops.

spk_0:   1:27:15
Yes,

spk_1:   1:27:15
Oh, I I believe that I follow that. But I also have been trying to give myself more credit for doing a good job so far because I you used to not, you know, I used to be Oh, wow, you sucked.

spk_0:   1:27:27
But I haven't sucked

spk_1:   1:27:28
for a while, all right? I've been doing pretty good, so keep reminding yourself that you're already doing a good job and you're already making progress while while pushing towards that is what I have to say, like I have to remind myself that all the time. And like I said before, I learned how to really, really describe a transgender person in a breakdown. I wasn't bad, you know. I wasn't like being a moron, but I did learn and I got better at it. And now I can go into that going and I can help other people. And Billy Oh, here's how. Actually, you should be worrying that on your breakdown. And I do that every day now and it's awesome. So there's always room to improve, but you're not. You don't have to hate yourself in the past.

spk_0:   1:28:05
Yeah, I mean, baby steps are still steps, and that's that's one of the things that I try Toe Express to my stream all the time because I love people who come in and they're they're upset because they're struggling. But I'll, you know, kind of talk him through it like, Yeah, but what did you do today? Did you actually get up and make coffee? Because that's something that you couldn't do two weeks ago, you couldn't get yourself out of the bed and morning and get a few little things done. What baby steps have you made? Because be proud of those, you will have a lot more of them in. Like you said, being committed to development to constantly working on yourself doesn't mean there's something wrong with you. It just means you always know there's more to learn.

spk_1:   1:28:44
Yeah, yeah, and you don't have to hold it against yourself knowing that

spk_0:   1:28:48
there's like little gaps to fill. But it's the best part

spk_1:   1:28:50
is that you could be, like, really content and know that there's work to be done. But it doesn't have to all happen at once, and it doesn't mean that you're like falling

spk_0:   1:28:59
behind you just

spk_1:   1:29:00
sort of like you're getting there and it's a It's a process and that's that's been tough for me, but I'm getting better at it. So that's right there, baby. Step,

spk_0:   1:29:07
Yeah, and in comparison, really as a thief of joy. And I can imagine that being tough when you're in the room with people who are like veterans at something, it's really tough to not. I want to compare yourself to them. I'm sure.

spk_1:   1:29:22
Yeah, it really, really can be. And it can. You know, you can compare yourself and make yourself feel better and reasons you don't really necessarily need Thio. That's a wolf. Hey, it's me.

spk_0:   1:29:35
Yeah, about that. How do you How do you shake yourself out of that? Done. Do you just remind yourself like you were saying earlier? Like Well, but I do of this. I do bring this value. I taught them what d t f means. Those motherfuckers didn't know that a minute ago.

spk_1:   1:29:48
Yeah, No, I do. I think enough and I just like, look, for a little ways. I'm like, Oh, I do that pretty well, You know, if it makes me something, makes me feel better. Just complimenting myself. It's like, all right, it doesn't mean I completely forget about my flaws or anything like that, but yeah. And just sometimes it's like about turning it off. And I've I've learned to do that. Ah, for better or worse, to kind of turn my brain off and just go into, like, zombie mode of I'm really, really attracted to repetitive tasks.

spk_0:   1:30:21
I mean, people are

spk_1:   1:30:23
you asked me to lick envelopes and close 50 of them. I'd be like, Yes, because I just don't have to think, but I can try. Aiken, I'm good at putting myself into that mode where something's been stressing me out or whatever. Something weird happened at work. You know what? I don't care now that I have no feelings towards it, but right now it's not a priority, and I just don't care. And so I just like clothes off. Go back to what I'm doing and just, like, get to get into a worker bee mode. And that's that's a really useful tool

spk_0:   1:30:52
sometimes. Absolutely. Do you? Do you have a good ah or any? Do you have a self care routine of some kind?

spk_1:   1:31:00
You know, I wouldn't say I have a routine, but I will say that this month you caught me at a good time because I've been Ah, we've been on this new things over a crucible radio, the pot, one of the podcasts. I hope my girlfriend and another friend of ours actually took the initiative on this. I just, you know, had mod approval in discord to post it. They came up with this idea that we actually did a diet bet challenge. Which means you can you put down money into a pool and if you lose 4% of your body weight in four weeks, you get your money back and a split of the pool. Cool. We did that. And I was like, All right, let's go for it. I have not been taking my care of myself to that degree in a long time. I need to I want to do this and I put $30 down. We put it out there in our discord, and then a lot of people are like, That sounds awesome. And we got a lot of people who were like, Oh, I don't need to lose weight But I have in the past or like I'm a personal trainer. Let me help you out. We have 40 people doing it, and the pot is like 1000 $1100. Wow, that's gonna get split. And then for the last three weeks, we've just been like everyone's been posting of, like, you know, I started Taquito diet today. Or like Man, I had sushi for lunch, but I had too much. I gotta run today, and we're

spk_0:   1:32:21
like, Oh, I just went

spk_1:   1:32:21
on. I just bumped my run up from 20 minutes to 25 but everyone's like good job and it's been awesome. And I think like I've been making progress and I'm pretty proud of myself so far. I think I'm gonna hit the goal and like doing that makes me go like, Oh, and also, you know what I'm like feeling good. So I'm gonna, like, do my hair much better today or something like that. And I'm like, like, and I know this man. I've been there and I've, like, had moments when we get back. But it's so every time, every time you make a little progress and that makes you want to make other progress, those endorphins to start flowing tears. Yes, like this feels good. Also, it happens after I watched Queer Eye Way. Just watch, like all of it. I was crying all night. It's so beautiful. Literally. The next day, we're going to brunch with a few of our friends and I come downstairs and I have, like, a necklace on my girlfriend is like,

spk_0:   1:33:16
Who are you? Just like you think

spk_1:   1:33:18
I'm gonna watch eight episodes of Queer Eye and not, like, really dress up like get back to that mode where I used to, like, really pride myself on how I looked and stuff like that. And it was so funny. The effect I'm like Wow. Instantly, huh?

spk_0:   1:33:29
Come todo killer man

spk_1:   1:33:32
it is. But it changed me like just watching that show. I was like, Oh, yeah, I can do better.

spk_0:   1:33:37
I like it. And then you start making these changes to your diet and you start making other changes because of those that's awesome. I tell people that all the time how important the mind body connection is and for your mental health, like exercise is, is an absolute necessity. That's like the American Psychiatric Association mandates 30 minutes a day. That's if you're if you're seeking treatment for any kind of mental illness, disorder, whatever, that's one of the first things they tell you is get at least 30 minutes in every day. So it's cool that you've started this this this awesome program, this whole weight loss thing, probably not realizing that it was going to be more than a weight loss program. In the end, you know, people are gonna wind up feeling better, and when you feel better, you want to do some extra things. You want to put yourself out there a little more. You wanna wear fucking necklaces? E had a leather band with a diamond on. It looked cool

spk_1:   1:34:32
and I was, like, So happy, like, dig it out of this drawer but and, like the funniest effect is that, like my might go to like de stress medication is like video games, right? Like let me just, like, play some dumb video games for three hours. I need my alone time. I love alone time, but now, like that has been reduced on. But also, it's like Great. Okay, so you're good. Like self medication. Video game habit is no longer like and escape from doing, like, other important. But you're still getting it and it's less and you're doing Maurine the day. It's like such a great

spk_0:   1:35:09
it is

spk_1:   1:35:10
the effect thing.

spk_0:   1:35:11
That's something that we talked about a lot, too. Is gaming absolutely can be great in terms of stress reduction? You know, having a nice little community. There's so many wonderful things. There's a reason why a lot of us have our lives built around it now. But there is such a thing as gaming wrong, and that's when the Onley thing that you do when you're angry, sad upset is go and just veg out in front of games. You don't address anything. You don't do anything for yourself. You just do the thing that allows you to not think about it. Yeah, and I noticed I started when I started making some minor changes in my life. I noticed the same thing. I was like, Oh, I I don't I don't bullshit around as much during the day at anymore. I don't I don't do as much binge watching of TV. I don't feel the urge to go in and game for several hours just so I don't have to think and said, I'm like, Okay, let's get the thinking out of the way. Let's meditate. And then if I want to play video games, I'll be doing it because video games bring me joy, not because they hide my pain.

spk_1:   1:36:10
Yeah, exactly. That's been a weird, weird thing when you start doing a podcast about a video game and you have an excuse to play it, and then you just, like, realized like okay, and now I'm too much. Now I'm doing much so it's been a good effect. It's been the past year. I've I've been really, really doing a better job of that. My girlfriend moved in when you live with your girlfriend, you suddenly cannot play video games on like that was just like a thing. Like, I figured, Oh, no, I can't have my fun, But really, it's like, No, I'm just I'm just like spending time elsewhere in better ways while still absolutely enjoying my favorite hobby and getting that like, alone time, which I need every day, like, you know, headphones on, like not speaking with my human voice, But I But I don't need five hours of it.

spk_0:   1:37:00
Yeah, that's the best part. Yes, if I can. I don't know if you do it already, but if I could make a quick recommendation, I think meditation has been the best thing I've introduced into my life lately.

spk_1:   1:37:13
Yeah, you know, my body swaying. He's ah, he's a big time meditator, and he's been he's been preaching it for a while, and I know I should probably give it a shot. I think I probably tried a long time ago, but with a whole different mindset about it s Oh, yeah, but yeah, I'm thinking I need to give that a go and swim will be like, finally Yeah. Oh, of course. you do it when snaps is not me? Every day, but it's about baby steps. Oh,

spk_0:   1:37:39
yeah, Absolutely. And that's honestly, like meditation can just be such a great thing. You're talking about how you need your alone time. You need your quiet time That that is something I've always needed to like. I struggle with anger, I think the worst out of all of the metal mental issues and disorders I have, I think my anger has always been the hardest. Meditation is like the main thing that has allowed me to start stepping away from that more. So I'm glad now, too, because I was talking to swing about some podcast stuff, too. So now I know that we'll have some some good conversations about meditation.

spk_1:   1:38:13
Yeah, absolutely.

spk_0:   1:38:14
Give it a shot, though, man.

spk_1:   1:38:16
Yeah, Yeah. All right. All right.

spk_0:   1:38:19
You're being open to the world into things, right?

spk_1:   1:38:22
I just said you can't figure out if you like, or if it gives you other joys Another way. If you don't do it once.

spk_0:   1:38:27
Yeah, give it a shot. This has been so cool, though. You know, this is a nice long podcast, which I was kind of hoping it would wind up being cause I but like you get to be kind of in people's lives in their jobs through these scripts. Thes podcasts are so fascinating for me because, like when I meet people out in the world, if I if I find out of a job that I know nothing about, that's like the next thing I do usually is I pull up a chair next to him. Like So you're not busy, right? Tell me everything. What is a day in your life like? Do you like your job? Are you fascinated every day? What else do you D'oh?

spk_1:   1:39:00
Uh huh. Yeah, And I also love taking. I take pleasure in the little parts about like, Oh, you know, this whole thing that seems really glamorous. There's also this really, really silly thing that happens every day like me. Like having to break down security guards. Wait. What? Like I love that there's like, there's that nuance to it. Yeah, there's it's fun. It's fun. I you got me in the morning with a cup of coffee. No food in my stomach. So clearly I was happy to talk a lot about it. It's understandable, but

spk_0:   1:39:32
yeah, it's good. The wild world, this is This is the type of stuff. I think people are excited to listen to an extended podcast on. Yeah, absolutely. Especially because your story, I think is honestly very, very inspirational. You went out there to be a writer, and here you are, in this job that you didn't know existed doing something that only five other people D'oh! How How fucking cool is that? And you're making a living off of it. You get to pursue your hobbies and your passions, and you seem pretty fucking happy.

spk_1:   1:40:07
Yeah, well, when you put it that way, I think I definitely am. It's nice to hear from someone else saying it for me to just, like, go through the motions, But absolutely, you're right. It's like it's just really cool. And it, like, I think that's why I tweeted had you in the first place. Is because, like, there

spk_0:   1:40:22
is

spk_1:   1:40:23
that part where I do like revealing that I've got that cool industry job. Yeah, so it's fun to talk about the cool parts without, you know, everyone in the office who already knows the whole deal. We just sort of grumbled to ourselves.

spk_0:   1:40:38
Yeah, well, hopefully when you when you sit down at your desk next time. Because when you're going back to work, that's when people will probably be listening to this. There's gonna be all these people out there that are just thinking like, Damn, that's a cool fucking job. So now maybe when you sit down, you can think like I have Cool fucking job. Today is gonna be a good day. I get to learn a lot today.

spk_1:   1:41:01
It all depends on the scripts. Well, let's just hope I get a good script. But yeah, no, it's It's absolutely true. Sometimes you're like, it's really sweet that I just read TV all day. It's like something cool in that on its own.

spk_0:   1:41:13
Yeah, I mean, I love to read. I would I would geek out on that part for sure. I like writing. I'm not necessarily a super talented writer, but I enjoy it. So it's It's fascinating on so many levels for me.

spk_1:   1:41:24
Yeah, it is really fun.

spk_0:   1:41:26
Well, cool man. Thank you so much for being a part of this. I'm really glad you made time for me on the weekend with your coffee. it's This is

spk_1:   1:41:35
perfect. It's like wake up and just sort of like shell and just, like talk on a podcast. My favorite activity. That's

spk_0:   1:41:43
amazing. So before we before we cut it off, then go ahead and plug your stuff. Let people know where to find you if they want to talk more about your super interesting job or your podcasts.

spk_1:   1:41:54
Oh, boy. OK, well, you can find me on Twitter at Bones Underscore CR I go by bones on the Internet and most things I d'oh. Um, well known podcast that I do, at least if you're from the destiny Worlds Crucible radio. If you like crucible, give that a listen. If you don't, it's probably not gonna be much help to you. It's very specific. It's the most hyper specific podcast I can imagine. But I also did recently the last few months start another podcast called Gaming in Hell, where if snaps his approach to the Internet is super positive, I'd consider it the heaven of gaming and were in hell with me and my buddy Dan, where we just, like talk about video game tropes or news or the social world of it and the dark corners of the Internet and vent and complain and rant about.

spk_0:   1:42:44
How did your most recent recent one on the website and I was like, I could talk about this for a while, but we're not gonna bring that up today,

spk_1:   1:42:53
Snaps. You'd be probably pretty perfect for it. So you should come on if you'd like. But anytime men, it's like the only way I can keep doing it sometimes where I'm just like, if I'm gonna be in this video game world, that can bring me great joy, but also drive me insane. I'm gonna have to record my own voice blabbering about it for a week or also go nuts. So it's it's super super therapeutic, and we and we have some good moments, too, where we also realize, like we're in ways where we can do better ourselves because we're just two, like Dude's talking about it in the end. So we gotta have a good impact. But yeah, and then also, we tally up our reviews and stuff every month and donate to the National Alliance of Mental Illness five star reviews, and, uh, I think we do a dollar for each one of those and stuff, so we don't want to listen to it. Give us a five star, still go towards a good cause and you don't have to listen to me complain about

spk_0:   1:43:48
it. It's

spk_1:   1:43:48
a win win.

spk_0:   1:43:49
I really like that. I didn't know you guys do that. That's super cool. Especially because you know, I'm really big into discussing mental health.

spk_1:   1:43:56
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's it's It's like a huge part of my life, too, and, you know, I've never It's weird. I've never been in a position to sort of, like, talk about it openly, like one on one. I have no problem, like I'll tell you every all of my skeletons or whatever or whatever, Uh, drugs I've been told that take in my life but like to do it on a more public scale has been kind of like Cool. Yeah, it's been this obviously a big movement on the Internet, too. Just like let's be more open about this, I

spk_0:   1:44:25
think in creation

spk_1:   1:44:26
it's crucial for our world toe like survive if we want it. Thio. But yeah, it is freeing, and it's cool that I can like you if it's just on the hashtag on the holiday for it or whatever. I don't mind saying it and it's cool. But yeah, it's it's really changed how I can just sort of be open and not just be bones who just talks about PVP. I'm bones, but also a guy named Mitch Shuqin rant about how we feel sometimes. And that's very cool.

spk_0:   1:44:54
That is cool, man. Yeah, this this was super awesome. Thank you again so much Did we get all year? Did we get all your social media is out there. I know We drop Twitter in. The podcasts are switching the podcasts. We do twist instagram

spk_1:   1:45:08
twitter bones underscore CR That's that's it. I don't really post enough on instagram I deleted Facebook. Facebook's screw you sucker version. I'm gone. Um, yeah, just that Follow me on Twitter and all my links air their toe, the podcasts I record so give those a listen if you want.

spk_0:   1:45:27
Awesome. Thank you again So, so much. This was super interesting. I can't wait to share those with people.

spk_1:   1:45:33
Thank you. This is great. And being able to talk about my weird job is like it was more fun than I thought, but but and also just to talk about how we feel. It's really great. Thank you for having me.

spk_0:   1:45:46
Thanks everyone for tuning in this week. This this was such a cool podcast getting to have bones here. I learned so much. I know this one's a bit longer, but I don't think any of you are gonna be upset about that. I'm thinking you probably learned a lot too. Don't forget if you have some fascinating job to or if you just want to be able to talk and you think that what you do is at least a little interesting hit me up Mind of snaps is on Twitter or you can find me or you can email me. I mean, if you just do mind of snaps at gmail dot com let me know about your job. What you d'oh! I'd love to hear from you, but don't forget to follow me just in general mind of snaps on Twitter. Mind of snaps on Instagram If you want to support some of the efforts of this podcast on the stream, you can go to pop a tree on dot coms last she snaps and support everything that way. It also gives you an opportunity to get some photography and some Monday morning or Friday morning positivity podcasts, which is dope and then common. Say what's up to me on twitch twitch dot tv slash she snaps. I'm on Monday through Friday, Monday through Thursday, our morning stream. So I'm on 8 a.m. Until about 3 p.m. Friday. I started about 3 p.m. Central and I'm always open to talk about this stuff. It's a really open forum I like to hear from you. I like tea. I like to meet you guys, So please come in. Talk to me. We can talk about this episode. We can talk about previous episodes. You can tell me things that you'd like to hear in future episodes. Just know I am open and I want to get to know you. But thank you for real, for tuning in. It means so much that all of you are supporting so many different things that we're doing here. So I appreciate you and make sure that you check out my buddy Nick Nick, because he's the one who does all of the editing for this. And I think he does a killer job. You can find him on twitch at twitch dot tv slash nick AMC and you can also see him on Twitter. Same thing. Twitter dot com slash nick AMC Awesome Editor does the editing four Mind of snaps and also for DCP, the Destiny community podcast to make sure you check him out. Thanks again, dudes. Have an awesome, awesome day.