Crypto Clothesline's Podcast

Chinelle van der Westhuizen on Money Laundering & Regulation for Scammers on Crypto Clothesline Podcast

June 27, 2019 Season 3 Episode 68
Crypto Clothesline's Podcast
Chinelle van der Westhuizen on Money Laundering & Regulation for Scammers on Crypto Clothesline Podcast
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Crypto Clothesline's Podcast
Chinelle van der Westhuizen on Money Laundering & Regulation for Scammers on Crypto Clothesline Podcast
Jun 27, 2019 Season 3 Episode 68
Crypto Clothesline

This week’s Crypto Clothesline guest for the Money Season is crypto regulations expert Chinelle van der Westhuizen. 

Chinelle is definitely NOT giving legal advice in this episode but she is a law lecturer at Notre Dame University in Fremantle and an advocate of the high court currently researching the regulation of cryptocurrencies.

This week we are wrapped in red tape, regulation, banks, policy makers AND money while we ponder the debate over the benefits of regulation and the future of our beloved cryptocurrency.

Check out all our interviews on the Crypto Clothesline Podcast HERE.

Show Notes Transcript

This week’s Crypto Clothesline guest for the Money Season is crypto regulations expert Chinelle van der Westhuizen. 

Chinelle is definitely NOT giving legal advice in this episode but she is a law lecturer at Notre Dame University in Fremantle and an advocate of the high court currently researching the regulation of cryptocurrencies.

This week we are wrapped in red tape, regulation, banks, policy makers AND money while we ponder the debate over the benefits of regulation and the future of our beloved cryptocurrency.

Check out all our interviews on the Crypto Clothesline Podcast HERE.

Speaker 1:
0:00
Don't forget that it ha. All right. Uh, so we're gonna make sure we talk about not giving legal advice. I think we need, yes, yes. Need to repeat that again. Yeah, Jesse Case. All right, let's, let's get going. Uh, today we would love to welcome on the show. No, hang on. I might use one. I just realized I've got to make sure our practice your name, Chevelle at Chanel van West. No, west West housing vendor with housing. That's fine. That the West hasn't. Okay, good. Johnny, he's going to yell at me again. I'll tell you shade. Go.
Speaker 1:
0:46
I really, we really should leave recording. Uh, so we would love to welcome to the show today. Chanel Vanda Westhousen. She is a law lecturer at the University of not your diamond Fremantle and she's currently researching into regulation of cryptocurrencies, but specifically the regulation on money laundering activities fueled by cryptocurrencies and consumer protection and all as welcome to the show Chanel. Ah, thanks ivy. It's great to be on the show. Thanks for coming on. Thanks Amy. Rose. Now, the very first thing we've got in our notes in big bolded writing is that Chanel is not giving legal advice, but she is sharing her personal opinion. Are we, are we in agreement on that everyone? Yes, definitely. Great. That Chanel, um, why cryptocurrencies used to, why a cryptocurrency, I'm just a little out start again because that's your person. That's not my words. So, um, I'm just gonna start off by asking you about how you got to be here. Okay. And then I'll, I'll find myself in all of our, okay. Sorry, I just tripped up a bit now. So Chanel, your, uh, originally South African, you find yourself living in Perth and you're working in this incredible area with cryptocurrencies and regulation. How did you end up in this situation? How did you get here?
Speaker 2:
2:11
All right. Uh, well, um, like you've mentioned, I'm from South Africa. I completed most of my degrees. Um, over there. No, I was also admitted as an advocate of the high court. Um, and then my partner and I really had the opportunity to move to Perth. Um, and it was a bad stage was about early 2014 when, um, the University of much Dan gave me a scholarship to complete a masters by research in the area of blockchain and um, and the regulation of Bitcoin with an Australian. So that is actually where my interest sparked or it was, it triggered to some extent. Um, and since then I've been working for universities, Electra and um, yeah,
Speaker 1:
2:55
that's the gist of it. Awesome.
Speaker 3:
3:02
Oh is it? Mine are going to need a bit of a name. I love. Okay. So she now from what I gather, you are a bit of a fan of cryptocurrency. Um, and as with many of us, um, we are of the mindset that we would love a free and open peer to peer cryptocurrency cause you know, it's better than having that middle man step in and put his stop sign up. Now I'm a little bit worried about the red tape and regulation coming into play and I have a funny feeling that um, you know, people involved in the legal industry are going to do play quite a large role in this. How do you as a lawyer see the effect of the incoming regulation on Crypto? You know, [inaudible] is it still going to be synonymous and open and free or how's it gonna play out?
Speaker 2:
3:58
Yeah, uh, well that's actually a very good question. I mean, um, if you have a look at it, I guess the main, the main purpose for these regulations that came into play, um, definitely was because of the Silk Road, the liberty reserve cases. Um, you know, we had in 2013, um, and then also with Mt Gox in Japan. That collapsed for some, no for some reason. Um, but, but I think yes, block chain, um, was initially created to be transparent and open. Um, you know, to some extent. However, the regulations, you know, in this particular, um, spice could to some extent damage, um, this transparency if regulators do try and regulated. Um, w how would I say it too closely? Um, so I definitely think there needs to be quite a good balance between regulation and, um, you know, how people so be, how they will still be able to use a blockchain in a free and transparent way.
Speaker 2:
5:07
So in, um, I think it was about in 2014 at some stage that the journey general's department actually mentioned that um, the Australian, um, transactions reports and analysis into Australia is seeing an increase in potential money laundering activities in Australia. Um, and I guess at that stage they just decided to play some regulation or introduced some regulation into the illegal use of cryptocurrencies, but they did it in such a way that it will not actually stifling innovation in a sense. Um, so I guess it's, it's really, it's a really hard question because we don't really know what government, um, what the intention of government is with regulation.
Speaker 3:
5:53
I would love to know what the intention is. What did we all love to know? We
Speaker 1:
5:58
call, do you think she nailed it? And this could sound a little bit disrespectful towards our friends in the government, but do you think they actually know, know about cryptocurrencies? I mean it seemed that in 2017 they didn't really seem to be understanding it at all. Do you think there's been the importation of experts and people that can actually demonstrate that it's not the same? It doesn't really work the same as a share at that they've got different qualities to other asset classes?
Speaker 2:
6:27
Yeah, so it's actually a tricky question again only because in well since the time they've actually started doing those parliamentary the bytes, um, they have made a submission or recommendation rather that they have a specific task force. Um, look into this particular area. And I guess the experts that are on that panel, we to some extent, no, the intricacies of blockchain and what cryptocurrencies are, um, I think they are just having real problems with how it fits in with current regulations. And so it is, it is my opinion and really that we can't necessarily use current regulation to fulfill what blockchain or the cryptocurrencies one, sorry. Um, it's really up to them to, to find a way to, to deal with these types of new issues. Yet
Speaker 1:
7:28
Chanel, I'm usually a little allergic to lawyers, which is probably why I do these interviews remotely. You can tell you right now in Queensland.
Speaker 2:
7:36
Okay. Well now I know the reason. Thanks.
Speaker 1:
7:41
But I, I'm just wondering, cause you're a lovely lawyer so this is very easy, but can you bring any funnel comfort or any comfort to the community about the benefits of red tape? This is a bit of a division about that. Like what do you think, how's it really going to benefit everyone? Particularly here's one thing, particularly when it's mostly the crypto community who loves crypto, not the rest of the world. So I'm wondering why is red tape needed for us?
Speaker 2:
8:10
Um, well I guess the, the retype is war relating to icrs exactly. For example, um, icrs and bio investor protection. So really with the ICRS, um, the Australian Securities and investment commission as well as the Australian constant competition and consumer commission have both made it clear that we want, um, protections for consumers, for consumers within this area. When they purchase, for example, coins or tokens within ICO is, um, only because those is, for example, um, you know, mislead and deceive certain buyers. Um, and when you know, your normal person on the goes in, um, see this website on the ICO, things are, I'm going to make millions off of this particular project. Um, that's really what they're looking into in order to protect those particularly investors. So it's only since I think that I actually looking into specifically, um, regulating that area where people are really involved within the crypto space, but they also have the challenge of trying to, you know, try and, and have a broad enough so that someone who just all of a sudden goes onto the website, see what this is, and then invest without doing their due diligence.
Speaker 2:
9:35
Um, try and protect them in such a way without, you know, getting any independent advice. So it's really, it's, um, that is, that's why I'm coming back from my first part where I said, um, you know, it's, it's a very tricky situation with, you know, this technology and the reason why this technology was created in the first place. Um, and whether government decides just to, you know, uh, regulate in terms of the crypto industry or whether it's more broadened, um, industry. So I think people just need to be away that they are actually, you know, protections for or some type of protection for them in law. Uh, but not everything.
Speaker 1:
10:21
No. You mentioned Silk Road and perhaps the reasons then you mentioned ICO is and you know, the ways of, um, suspicion 2017 of raising funds for different crypto projects and blocks, more based projects. And it might be a little bit of a naive question, but I do want to ask, I crypto currencies actually use to clean people's money laundry here in Australia and if so, what are some known cases of that?
Speaker 2:
10:48
Oh yes. That's another good question. Um, look, there's definitely potential for an ICO scheme, for example, to be involved, uh, with some money at all Jay activities. Um, they, you know, are, they are meeting icrs out there that actually rotten lucrative investment schemes, but you know, you always get your normal type Ponzi type schemes and childcare providers that has popped up in the last couple of years in Australia especially. Um, and this is once again because you know, or the ICR provides that particular level of privacy, uh, within that structure and really by blindly, um, what I say redeeming cryptocurrencies, uh, full tokens of some kind, the ICR actually or potentially places themselves in a position where cryptocurrencies, um, my maybe guidance from illegal activity. Um, so I guess because there's a lack of some record keeping within an ICO structure and you know, due to the speed of the transactions that actually happened within that ICO and the lack of oversight, um, it could be seen as a desirable structure for, you know, laundering money.
Speaker 2:
12:02
Um, and that is why it's really crucial for these ICRS. You need to be aware of the anti money laundering laws and the consumer protection laws are all invested protection laws that apply. Um, and I would really, you know, um, my head clear to those ICO is that, um, you know, it was try, Leah is here to stay in terms of, you know, regulating part of what they can regulate at this moment. Um, and so, um, there was, from what I can remember, there wasn't an ICO scam of, um, I think it was dragon coy, um, that was seen of some of some sort of a money laundering scheme, which, um, uh, was in Bangkok if I'm correct. Um, but we had that. And then we also had the Mt Gox on the exchange digital exchange platform that collapsed in Japan. And due to that, the, um, you know, the money laundering, um,
Speaker 3:
13:03
activities just increased and issue of money laundering schemes that were happening outside of Australia, but perhaps affecting Australians.
Speaker 2:
13:14
Yes, that's correct. I mean, they, there hasn't been a lot of money laundering schemes, I guess, that are very prevalent in a trailer yet. Um, but because of all those ones that happened internationally, um, I guess the training government thought they, they need to put measures in place, you know, just in case something happens. However, um, I I did note that earlier this month and the Australian transactions, um, reporting and analysis center, actually Australia, I'll just refer to it as I'll trek. Yeah. Um, they actually, um, I think they, they with together with the AFP made a significant, um, discovery with illegal drug trafficking, um, together with, you know, money laundering activities through blockchain. Sorry. Um, there was this whole investigation since 2018 or 2017 with this. And so we'll just see where that goes. So at the moment is just, you know, news reports, but we'll see where that goes.
Speaker 3:
14:18
She know. Can you, do you have any insight into whether or not you think that the banks, the Australian banks in particular, are going to come out with their own cryptocurrency and if they do, do you think that is going to escalate the development of regulations and maybe give you a really high paying job?
Speaker 2:
14:42
Yeah, good credit. Look, another really hard question. Only because, you know, it depends from bank to bank, whatever. Um, you know, the, the ancients are at the moment. Um, I would, I would definitely say that there's difference of opinion on this matter. Sorry. Um, I guess banks or financial institutions are actually interested in taking that technology behind cryptocurrencies. Um, and they will probably definitely explore this idea further. Uh, but I really think that, you know, the central banks like the Reserve Bank of Australia for example, um, they are distancing themselves from cryptocurrencies specifically. And it was interesting that in 2018 there was a report by the official monetary and financial institutions forum, which was called Central Bank digital currencies. Um, and they actually stated that a number of central banks have been exploring the idea of creating their own cryptocurrencies, but, um, there haven't really pursued it yet. So while central banks, um, you know, I believe that it could be beneficial to explore this particular concept, um, is so presents challenges. Um, you know, I was saying for them within regulation, you know, and monetary policies and I guess they own this wait and see approach to see how, you know, governments react to the regulation of it and whether they can go forward. So I guess I did see interested in the innovative, innovative part of it, the technology, uh, but how they will utilize it. It's, you know, it's a white NC
Speaker 1:
16:25
gang really. Chanel I heard you speak previously about, I was writing down some notes and you talked about Ponzi schemes and illegal activity and I don't want to throw you under our best to you, but I was watching episode four of the hidden secrets of money by Mike Maloney with my kids and he was able to demonstrate how the banks, and in this case in America, the banks and the federal reserves and other trusted institutions are actually a massive Ponzi scheme and they are running illegal activity. But we just let them continue doing that. How is it that the very same people that are potentially sort of doing that can be hand in hand with the people making regulations to protect us from the people that are doing that? I, I find it really contradictory. So I mean, so it's almost like focuses on cryptocurrency but will just completely ignore the whole banking fact that sector. Yes.
Speaker 2:
17:20
Yes. Well, I guess [inaudible] it's, you know, it's the central banks. It's, it's all centralized. It's within a particular community if you want to say it within that economy. And they don't really want to, uh, you know, have competition in this area. So I guess with this, you know, with, with cryptocurrencies popping up now since, you know, the early days, I guess they really thought that they would, you know, I have control over money and the financials, you know, institutions for really long time. And I think there's competitiveness is what is actually, um, I guess, uh, you know, trying to use the better word for it. Um, it's scaring them to an extent. And, um, the, you know, even though I'm talking about, you know, cryptocurrency is being used for money laundering purposes. Um, a clear example of how it is actually happy on a daily basis is with the Commonwealth Bank of Australia.
Speaker 2:
18:25
That money, no, his candle that has been going on since 2016, I don't know if you, if you're aware of this, um, and where they find them a record breaking $700 million for this breach. And so what I'm trying to say is that um, you know, whether it's payments through cryptos with it yet currency yeah. They are both actually still subjected to money laundering activities. It's just on different platforms really. So, um, the, the, our current regulatory system, yes, we do have regulations for money laundering activities within your general fear to currency tribe, traditional payment systems. Um, but it's still lacking. And you know, every day there's money laundering activities are going on due to not doing your novel, you know, know your customer policies and procedures are going through the due diligence process. So if you actually have a look at it, the ratio compared to how many money laundry activities they are within financial institutions compared to cryptocurrency, you know, it's actually rather the major compared to what cryptocurrencies go through every day. So, um, I guess it's more the sense of the government being scared of how are they going to deal with this particular competitive, um, you know, area off payment systems.
Speaker 3:
19:55
Yeah. Yeah. I'm here. You know, we can cut this question if you like, but um, when I was writing it I was like, yeah, you really want to us. So, um, so your still imagine that you're standing in front of policy makers and they ask you how are they going to best regulate these annoying Jen? Why Libertarians with Utopian pipe dreams for a free and decentralized currency? What are you going to say to them? Because I'm pretty sure they're going to get people like you with giant brand to try and control the movement praise about a utopian fee for that bloody good one.
Speaker 2:
20:47
That was pretty Krishna. I've never thought of it. I'm going to make a note of it now. Yes, I get that. No, good question. Um, I guess I don't really have a clear answer for this, but what are, what I would suggest is to actually do, um, you know, some, or do really good research in this area. Try and understand the concepts of why this industry is here. Um, you know, and try and not try, not really, um, how would I say, use old and cotton regulation to try and fit this new model of law into those particular models. So they really need to think outside the box because this is a, this is a very different area. It's a new area. It's an upcoming area. Um, and it's that they can actually place it into, they can place it into a box and think, alright, we've regulated, there's, um, you know, now we can move on.
Speaker 2:
22:05
So they really need to do their research. They really should talk to people about it. Um, try and get an understanding of how people feel about it, whether people even know about it. Um, you know, people in the industry, how they feel about being regulated, how it being like regulated. I mean it's, it's such an exciting area and I'm sure some people in the crypto currency, you know, feel the industry would actually support some level of regulation if it is done correctly. So they need to find a new way to deal with this new area of law. Sorry. That's what I care. Two will come and, okay. So they need to, okay. Well after this question they might just go to the old school red tape. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I really think they need some, you know, new. Um, how do you say, I think they need some annoying gen ys with libertarian. I didn't get the whole thing. I tried to write it down. You know what she said? Yeah. Yeah. We really need to consider it because otherwise they just going to keep, you know, preparing or creating legislation or actually just amending current rate regulation. Um, the way they've always done it. Sorry. Well we'll just have
Speaker 1:
23:46
to see. Oh well that was a toughy.
Speaker 3:
23:51
What can run, you can pretty much tell you what's going to happen. Let it go. Let it go. [inaudible] I'm a N***a Tron, they're just going to be like the way that they've always been. There's been new technologies for a very long time and it's all the same. They don't do anything different. Everything is the same. They just like put a sticker on it saying, Yup, that fits here. You know, that's money, that's, you know, whatever,
Speaker 2:
24:23
what we need copy and pasting or things into different areas where they think it should fit. Uh, but I think they're really any time to up the concept. Um, offered watch cryptocurrency actually is. Um, and, and sorry with w with, as you know, someone says it's not money with someone says it's money. They really need to sit down and have a real look at your room. Did they really want
Speaker 1:
24:51
concert? But I think the issue is also like a generational one. And it's interesting that you brought in the Gen y analogy. No reality. Amy Rose, because recently with that, that terrible, a terrible shooting in New Zealand. There was a, a friend of mine, and I wish I could bring it up, but she, she just wrote this diatribe about, um, old crusty men in government who are not, I dunno, she, I, I'm going to sound sexist, ageist, terriblest in every possible way here, but I'm sort of thinking in order to government and policymakers to really be able to embrace what cryptocurrency potentially could be, they need to be able to look at the world through a new set of lenses, you know, through new glasses and as long as your policy makers are still sort of sitting in their cushy positions and they've got their, you know, massive incomes, even once they're retired, they're really, they're hand in hand with the banks and they're hand in hand with those institutions that have been in place for so long and then have been regulating us to their own benefit for so long that I'm really cynical about them really ever getting a bird's eye view, a different perspective on, on how this could be and how it could really impact on our families, on our future, on, on, on the planet.
Speaker 1:
26:11
Um, you've even got that conversation that, that a Swedish girl brought up. Oh Gosh, I've just had a mental blank and I've forgotten her name. Help me out here. The one that, that really challenged the UN, um, she's everybody's new warmup. Oh, can you give a good look for me? Yeah. She was standing in UN, wasn't she just going, you're not going to listen to me. You've never listened to me. You just, yes. Great. As soon. Virg yeah. And thank you. I mean, I can, you know, I'm getting kids to listen and watch her and I went along to the rally and you know, marched against climate change. But yeah, she said you can't just keep doing things the way we've always done them because you'll end up with this stuff you'll always end up with, you know, that we've always had, so it's a moving and shaking situation, but it feels like the powers that be as sort of sedimenting down into the same old, same old. And that's, I think what the frustration is.
Speaker 2:
27:12
That's right. Yep. And, and I mean, if I look at some stage when all of this, you know, was a hype in terms of regulation, you know, early 2013, 2014, um, you know, the government was very much say, oh, we'll wait and see what all the other governments will be doing internationally. Now we didn't train the 19. Um, I guess they can't really use that, explain that, you know, that excuse anymore. Um, and so, um, it's, it's, it's like for example, in Japan, we, they've now they now have a legal status, um, you know, illegal tender legal status for, um, cryptocurrencies and having a specific code just dealing with, um, you know, a cryptocurrency. So I think really, um, the government can actually now look at other, other, you know, international countries and see how they've dealt with it and, and they are dealing with the, you know, great in some aspects and other aspects that aren't, so don't get me wrong. Uh, but, but they are ways in which they can actually make really good recommendations and ask people for submission.
Speaker 1:
28:26
She would have to have faith. You feel like your government and your local leaders actually listen to you? I mean, that's, that's I think the cynicism. That's our underwriting all of this because we had a conversation with them. Dr Bread pet, who's, who's the mayor of Fremantle. And it was a great conversation, but part of that was, okay, so I, yeah. So Brad, do you think that, um, blockchain technology being introduced, which is the technology backing up cryptocurrencies, and this is an aside from the money argument, but it's kind of right up there with government. Do you think that blockchain technology could have an effect on voting? And do you think that's a positive thing? And I, excuse me, he was quite open to that, but I think there are quite a few, excuse me. I think there are quite a few politicians that would be quite frightened at the idea that they have to do what they said they're going to do at the election promise time.
Speaker 4:
29:17
Yeah,
Speaker 2:
29:21
that's right. Yeah. So I mean, it's, yeah, it's, it's an interesting and fascinating area and I think people really need to be open to the idea, you know, at least.
Speaker 1:
29:33
Yeah, I'm in exploring that world and we'll see that went a little bit off the question list isn't it?
Speaker 2:
29:47
Sorry about that. Sorry about that. But before we go there is a question that we usually ask all of our guests and that is what is your favorite quote? Ah, all right. Um, well I do have a couple of favorite quotes we'd round, but I guess it depends how I feel on the day, if you know what I mean. Um, no but, but one of my favorite quotes is from doctor series, which says why for dinner when you were born to stand out. And I really liked that particular card because I think being exceptional in things, um, you do, you do on a daily basis and how you show compassion to others while pursuing your dreams is actually what makes you stand out. And this actually resonates a lot with blockchain and cryptocurrencies as well because it's such an outstanding, um, and different area. I mean, if you pursue it, you will naturally stand out, you know, from others that just want to do the whole day to day thing. Sorry, I had another very quick question. That is, what is money do you think? And what do you think the future of money is?
Speaker 2:
31:10
Another interesting question. Yes. So many anxious in questions. I mean it's just, you can, I can understand why you say you can always, you can talk about this the the whole day, but we don't have all day. All right. So I guess I have two actually two viewpoints on this. So my professional opinion, um, in terms of what that is, um, is that it is actually, there's just something that, um, can be used as some accepted medium of change, which provides a unit attached to that exchange. And then pro, you know, of course can be sought at a certain value for listening purposes. Um, and this can be seen as your day today. You know, type purchasing of common goods, put somebody in legal tender tested. But that is a boring view. So we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll get close and a more subjective view, uh, where we really saying, yeah, yeah, I'll do a cloud slide view.
Speaker 2:
32:10
Um, we'll, we'll step away from the legal points. Um, no, and I'm, well, on a personal note, I think money is really viewing the relationships it creates. Um, and how, um, you know, our culture, values and backgrounds play a role in how we perceive money, um, at this stage in our lives. So for example, you know, I can just quickly say that many African countries still use bought at transactions and commodities of some kind to pay for goods or services. Um, whereas first we'll countries, you know, electronic commerce has taken over the payment system, world ride, but if you actually really think about it, um, all these different ways of paying for goods and services is actually just a means by which that person is utilizing the bunny. So it's just on a different scale and in a different market. Um, and you know, the quote by FDA, and I don't know if you know Afro Bane, um, you say that, um, money speaks, sends in a language that all nations understand.
Speaker 2:
33:17
Um, and I think this what I've just said resonates with me and, and I think this has been the case throughout centuries where money has involved in such a way that he'd actually adopts himself. So you see [inaudible] being part of the future or do you think, do you see them existing side by side sort of fit current crypto and batter and things? Uh, yes. Yes. Well I think, um, well when you talk about it, I actually think back to when my parents bought me that little piggy bank and you remember those heavy bags and you use it to save your pocket money. Um, and I don't actually, I don't have kids or by our, and so I'm wondering where the parents seeing that we moved so far along in society and so I, I'm going to buy the one today, keep teaching them to put money into a bank and I put your money under the mattress. Just put your money into something that'll make you money. So I feel like it's kind of a mixed message, but I could say it's reminds me, aren't you Chanel?
Speaker 2:
34:36
Okay. No, I'm, I'm actually, to be honest, I, I know I'm very, uh, I'm, I'm quite young, but I'm actually very old fashioned and I actually have a very old soul antique. I still heavy no, but, but he changed, I think there potential for cashless society in the near future. Um, I mean with the frictions and, and other technologies providing for such opportunities, I think that money will never actually lose its characteristics, but it definitely has the potential to change shape, which we'll probably not include coins and paper notes. Um, I'm, I mean, I'm not saying it's going to happen in the next five to 10 years, but we definitely on our way to looking into, into that area, oh, I think it's definitely happening in the next five to 10 years or something. So they were being watch to being, I'm going to say, oh, come on.
Speaker 1:
35:40
Yeah, that was a real girl.
Speaker 2:
35:49
Uh, yeah,
Speaker 3:
35:58
no, I've been listening to a lot of futuristic thoughts. A lot of them are very aligned on one particular thing. And that is that, you know, there's not really a place for, for cash, particularly with the need to, um, you know, to view data and spendings. And I mean, even me just trying to use zero, you know, I, I use my Xero App, I use my zero program and I go and I skin a few receipt and I can actually choose to, to use cash. So there then they don't even have that option. It's like, it's, they know that that option is not going to be around for a very long time. So why are they going to spend any money on implement, you know, adding that feature to the actors and other programs that just going in that direction. Sorry. Well, yeah, yeah. Accounting softwares there. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
37:02
Look, I'm, I'm excited for what the future holds and, and, and how cryptocurrencies and blockchain will actually change, um, you know, one side of the world, but to thought makes sense. But specifically the financial industry and um, you know, the, the, the feature of regulation at this stage, it's very unclear. I mean some countries embrace it, some of it storage. Um, and I guess with the bits and pieces of legislation, but we actually do have, um, you know, it might create this debate on whether the regulation is in fact needed.
Speaker 1:
37:43
[inaudible] on the show are practicing Buddhist. She says, I think that the Australian ATO and regulate, you know, policy makers have been incredibly generous because we are allowed to spend cryptocurrency in our country and in a lot of countries they're not allowed to do that. It's totally bad. And so I think we're already, do, you know, we're not doing so bad if you look at us on the global sliding scale of crypto friendliness. Yeah,
Speaker 2:
38:12
no, of course not. Yes. Part of this, you know, what is the future for money is really government making their choice, having a balance between, you know, regulation, transparency, um, and how it will impact upon, you know,
Speaker 1:
38:32
we thank you so much for coming in today. I have had a bit of a tricky time getting you on because this is our fourth, just part of the digital adventures really, isn't it? Sorry. And I think it was kind of good cause our conversation than a question I just sort of mature most into. I'm like, I think, I think we did rather well talking about regulation. We even had a few giggles. Yeah. Well that's good. Well I isn't that funny. I'm wearing that shirt in the Nordic countries to Russian talking Internet, Internet. That would be great. Yeah, I am. Yeah. Eight or why are you actually on the NBN network? I don't know if that makes a whole lot of difference though. Just say yeah, probably. Yeah, there I go again. Go again. All right. My Love. Oh, instead of pleasure having you on today. Thank you.
Speaker 4:
39:43
Okay.
Speaker 1:
39:44
All right. I think now I think that went rather well given all the extenuating circumstances. Awesome. That's great. Yeah,
Speaker 4:
39:59
yeah.
Speaker 1:
40:02
Oh yeah. But should we do the interaction now? What are you going to do? Go and have a light and the women in blockchain event tonight? I feel like doing it like a hole in the head. There's absolutely no one yeah, that I know of so far that can step in.
Speaker 1:
40:21
Hmm. Oh, you need to just, you just need to assign the road or someone, that's what I did for mine. There's this guy who's been going and he's like, really loves it. And I just sent him an email saying, your am, you're an organizer now. And we had heaps of tech problems and he's a tech guy coming along and help. So that's good. It was so good. You just need to tell someone to jps, one presenter. So she, she would want someone to introduce her and give a kind of general overview and Sophie is not coming. Uh, Julie's away because her father died. Did you know Julie's father passed away in Switzerland? In Germany. So she had to go back suddenly end simultaneously. She's working on this Malaysia with the Malaysian team and they got into the top three of 'em, uh, apps using blockchain as a backup in the world. And they didn't win, but they were in the top three and the, yeah, so the, the, the prize was a hundred K or, I dunno. Mazing what? We have recordings I get,
Speaker 4:
41:33
yeah.
Speaker 1:
41:33
Do you want us, are we recording when I yeah.
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