In this episode, Chad Corbett, David Pannell, and Certified Probate experts break down good marketing vs. bad marketing, how to write good marketing copy for real estate, how to build referral relationships with vendor partners without ever paying a referral fee, and networking with real estate attorneys for value adds like estate inventory services.
Free Probate Crash Course Webinar: https://probatemastery.com/probate-fast-track-webinar/
Certified Probate Expert Course: https://probatemastery.com/probate-training-course-for-real-estate-agents-investors/
Join our Facebook group, Estate Professionals Mastermind: https://facebook.com/groups/estateprofessionalsmastermind
In this episode (YouTube Timestamps)
0:00 Introducing McKenna Kaup: Successful Real Estate Agent and Probate Mastery Integrator (Probate Mastery news)
4:03 Creative Finance Course: What’s next? (Real Estate Training)
7:26 How do I approach a bank for a business line of credit? (Real Estate Business)
11:27 Is real estate coaching worth it to invest in? (Real Estate Coaching)
14:01 Interest rates and debt in the current market (2022 Economy)
15:39 The Real Estate Long Game: How to help a seller lead rent in the short term (Deal Analysis)
17:34 All The Leads probate credibility website (Probate Website)
18:45 Probate real estate copywriting and marketing (Real Estate Marketing)
25:58 Working with attorneys for referrals (Attorney Referrals)
32:35 Leveraging vendors with bulk service packages (Business Operations)
34:16 How to monetize vendor relationships (Real Estate Vendors)
36:53 How to pitch real estate vendors for bulk service packages (Real Estate Vendors)
38:12 Estate Inventory Service Packages value-add for probate lead generation (Probate Marketing Ideas)
42:45 How to attract and capture more leads (Real Estate Marketing)
Learn more at www.probatemastery.com
In this episode, Chad Corbett, David Pannell, and Certified Probate experts break down good marketing vs. bad marketing, how to write good marketing copy for real estate, how to build referral relationships with vendor partners without ever paying a referral fee, and networking with real estate attorneys for value adds like estate inventory services.
Free Probate Crash Course Webinar: https://probatemastery.com/probate-fast-track-webinar/
Certified Probate Expert Course: https://probatemastery.com/probate-training-course-for-real-estate-agents-investors/
Join our Facebook group, Estate Professionals Mastermind: https://facebook.com/groups/estateprofessionalsmastermind
In this episode (YouTube Timestamps)
0:00 Introducing McKenna Kaup: Successful Real Estate Agent and Probate Mastery Integrator (Probate Mastery news)
4:03 Creative Finance Course: What’s next? (Real Estate Training)
7:26 How do I approach a bank for a business line of credit? (Real Estate Business)
11:27 Is real estate coaching worth it to invest in? (Real Estate Coaching)
14:01 Interest rates and debt in the current market (2022 Economy)
15:39 The Real Estate Long Game: How to help a seller lead rent in the short term (Deal Analysis)
17:34 All The Leads probate credibility website (Probate Website)
18:45 Probate real estate copywriting and marketing (Real Estate Marketing)
25:58 Working with attorneys for referrals (Attorney Referrals)
32:35 Leveraging vendors with bulk service packages (Business Operations)
34:16 How to monetize vendor relationships (Real Estate Vendors)
36:53 How to pitch real estate vendors for bulk service packages (Real Estate Vendors)
38:12 Estate Inventory Service Packages value-add for probate lead generation (Probate Marketing Ideas)
42:45 How to attract and capture more leads (Real Estate Marketing)
Learn more at www.probatemastery.com
Welcome everybody to the weekly probate mastery group coaching call and a state professionals mastermind podcast. No real theme today, but I do want to take a moment to introduce you guys to somebody. You'll see, on, on, in the zoom window, a new face McKenna has joined our team as integrator. And anyone, if you followed my advice and reading list, and you've read Gino Wickman and Mark Winters books, get a grip Traction, rocket fuel, or any of the other entrepreneur operating system books, the integrator actually sits as the filter between the visionary crazy people like me that have more ideas and time and organizational skills and everything that goes on. So this is a really important milestone in my career. It's something I've known I've needed for a long time. And quite frankly, never had the courage or the patience to sit down and actually find the right person. So, we already see, you know, a huge improvement and team dynamic. I feel more relieved that I can actually step away and focus on the more important things to me that allow me to deliver more value to you guys. So guys, please welcome McKenna and McKenna. I'll give you the floor uh, introduce yourself, let everybody know who you are and kind of what, what your vision is for your new. Hi everybody! As Chad said, my name is McKenna. I've been kind of in a lot of different areas in the real estate realm from being a realtor to a property manager, to working on the ops team for real estate brokerages for awhile. And now I get to be a part of this education opportunity for real estate. So I'm really excited to get started in that right now it's, you know, I'm week two. So a lot of my time has been spent learning our tech and identifying the vision. So, we've got a lot of really exciting things coming your way. So be on the lookout and that's all I've got. Awesome. Thanks McKenna. One other thing before we jump into questions and dialogue, as I'm sure you've noticed, Katt has really, we've really focused on bringing a lot more, what we believe to be unique and valuable content to the community this year, since I'm in a little more stable environment, not moving every three days in the RV. We've got more time to five casts and bring experts in. So we recently put in front of you a professional ISA service probate attorneys just, just literally. We're jumping on this call connected with another really great probate attorney out of the state of Florida who really aligned with our values and reached out to us because of what she saw in this community. And that's a pretty damn cool feeling like when we've got the attorney community reaching out because of the culture they see in our Facebook groups and the way we treat each other and they want to be part of the real estate conversation, even though they're illegal professional, because this community is more valuable than what they've found in their own space. And that's really the direction we're headed. Guys. We want to bring Mo give you access to more and more of those people that you might not already have access to and bring more value to, to kind of elevate the conversation. Far as I've seen in my life, a rising tide lifts all boats. So we're really focused on getting the right people in here. Next week. We have literally a six degree black belt and Sansei that focuses on very, very specific types of retirement retirement accounts that are typically only used by billionaires and politicians. And it's something that I've integrated into my own estate plan. And we're giving you access to people that have taken me years to build those relationships and meet the right people who I believe to be the top of their field in the entire world in most cases. So if you have ideas of fan of called a call on the audience, a couple of times, if, if there's anything you really want to learn about, or an expert that you know is in this space, but you've never been able to include them in your own personal network, let us know. Give us, you know, give us a target, give us, give us a goal for how we can provide more value to you. But if you haven't been keeping up with the YouTube channel, the blog, the podcast episodes, other than the weekly calls, I would encourage you to go to jump down because we're giving away more value than, than most coaching companies and course companies even charged for. So I'll quit. Yeah. And, uh, open the floor. Who's got something they want to work on this week and it comments, questions. I have a question. Chad, are you planning or is there already a podcast somewhere that you've gone a little bit deeper dive on the creative financing model. we're actually examining the overall business model of this company. My goal is to get a more evergreen version of probate mastery in place over the next couple of months, and then build more of a course library. I have tried to get everything in my head into one linear course that wouldn't confuse and overwhelm people. And I just don't think that's possible. I think it looks more like you know, you've seen a graphic of neurons, how everything's kind of intermingled. And for me, it's I've, I've been thinking about it. How can I take a and teach on a linear path? Everything that I've learned and, and create a shortcut and creative financing is one of those things that as soon as like two questions, then it turns into a neuron, right? It just goes, it can go anywhere. So I think the, where we're headed with the community is actually having a course library. So you could think about it almost as the Netflix of benevolent entrepreneurship, it's going to include things that aren't even related to probate or real estate. So we're going to look at business structure. We're going to look at mindset. We're going to look at finances as wealth creation, tax optimization, creative financing, tactics, and small business acquisition, as well as real estate acquisition. So I've got a big, big vision and a lot that I can share. That's a real big part of McKenna's job is to reign me in and find the way she, her job is to be the filter between me and you guys and make sure she gets that you have access to the best. I know it's gotta be frustrating to hear me talk about it and say one of these days I'm gonna build a course. Well, hopefully those days, that day is coming a lot closer. So later in this year, we hope to have foreclosure mastery based on what I see happening in macro economics. I think it might finally be time to take everything that I've done in the foreclosure pre-foreclosure space and actually kind of using the same methodology that we use in probate mastery, different tactics to the same strategy. We'll probably have a foreclosure mastery course before the end of the year. That creative financing course has been trying to get out of my head for so long. And I that's, that's a big, one of my big intents to get that out. Okay, great. Thanks. Yeah, cause I just want to be, or in fact, all of us should be well equipped going in with the four choices to give to the seller. So that's what I was looking at. I saw one of your videos recently with the attorney from Arizona and you guys touched on the creative financing there. And I was like, yeah, we need a deeper dive on this. So yeah, it can expand almost any real estate professional. You can expand your business by 20 to 25% just by having a good understanding of creative financing. Cause those junk deals are no longer junk deals., I know there's a need and, that's a big priority for us and it may end up coming to you in the form of the, you've probably seen the mind map that I've showed a few times on podcasts and on this call where we look at the leads on the left-hand side and the strategy or the conversation on the strategies to monetize every real estate conversation. I think that may end up being the format. So we kind of follow the conversation and teach as we go along through each branch. And at the very end, that's where we hit the tactics. You buy, you list it, or you use a creative financing strategy. But I'm thinking that's probably the format and we will follow that that's logical tree through an emotional conversation. And at the very end, you learn all the tactics to actually close the deal. I think that's the format you can expect. So it's, it's a big one that works great. Yeah. Fed how are you this week, brother? I'm well, how are you doing? Well, how can I help you? I like like the specs looking good, my friend. And for you, I remember a few months ago you had suggested business line of credit. I looked up as much as I could about it, wanting to get to just kind of pick your brain and see what you suggest on how, how to go about it and what to look out for and what to maybe avoid. I think you were saying that it may be best to go to a community bank opposed to a one of the big boys. Okay. Definitely avoid big banks like the plague for many reasons. That's, that's pretty common advice for me. So I find, I look for this for years and we banked even with regional banks, you know, we had as much as $3 million in EBITDA on, on a P and L annually, and we couldn't get a $50,000 line of credit. It's ridiculous. Like there's essentially no risk whatsoever for that lender. When you come down into community bank level, typically they're, you know, they're looking to build relationships with small businesses. Now, the bank that I use is an outlier because it is now after an acquisition, one of the largest banks in the country. But they still act like a community bank. Can they still lend like a community back? So I use first citizens. I go in, I usually seed a company with 20 to 25,000 bucks, cause that, that elevates my deposit account to a level where they're not used to seeing, especially from a brand new account. So I dropped 20 grand in the business banking account, as soon as it deposits. And they hand me that deposit slip. I ask to see the vice president of commercial lending or the president of commercial lending. And we sit down and talk about an overall finance strategy for the business. And First citizens, if you actually asked for less than 50,000, it's not, it doesn't even have to go to underwriting. So they will own you up to 49 9 that day for $150 fee. For me like the last one I did, the entity was less than two hours old. I had a $75,000 revolving line on a credit card and I had a 49, 9 line on a business line of credit. The business line of credit is you're typically going to find those at the time, plus one and a half or sometimes a fixed rate prime plus one and a half on the day you were originated. Don't ever be afraid to renegotiate rates on a line of credit. If rates go down, if we go into a stagflationary economy and and I said is, you know, it has to resort to negative interest rates to maintain, you know, growth. Then there could be an environment where rates could drop. Don't ever be afraid to negotiate that back down. If you originate a high rate, And just thinking for another future who might be listening to this, we could have 6% either, right? But the other place you can look into credit unions. So credit unions are not for profit. You know, their job is to get money off of their books and then to, into the customer's hands. So they can also be really good line of credit lenders. d when you go to bigger institutions and companies that present that as a service business lines of credit. it's incredibly difficult to get. Now, there are some others that are pretty obvious to a lot of people that I'm overlooking, mainly because I believe they're threaded. You can pull lines of credit through companies like Stripe or PayPal merchant companies. They're typically coming with, if you know that they send out slick offers, it's like, Hey, you can get a $20,000 advance. And by the way, you only owe this much. But if you do, if you figure out the APY it's oftentimes north of 20%, between 20 and 30% AP. That's just dumb money. So there are short term line of credit company like that, where you can, you can grab a line without a whole lot of underwriting at all, but it is basically a credit card rates. So you may as well just get a credit limit increase on your credit card and pay the 25% there. It's less costly and easier to keep track of. So that's kind of in order of priority community banks and my favorite credit unions would be my second. And as a last resort, you can look at that companies like square or PayPal, a lot or QuickBooks as another one, Quicken also offers it. But in my opinion, all three of those last three, all come with ridiculously high cost to capital. Yeah. No, thank you for that. And I actually wanted to run this by you because essentially I have, I have something coming up and the cost is 20 grand. Okay. Could I put together 20 grand cash probably, but then I thought about, is it smart to, is it an income producing asset? It's coaching, it's coaching. I'm going to be nice direct. They're not the, like, even if you were asking to pay me that money, I would tell you that you should not use debt on something that doesn't give you a return on investment guarantee. Nothing nothing's guaranteed. You use that to acquire cash, producing assets, period, you, your coach might die. He might suck. Like he may quit and go a different direction. There's human variables outside of your control. And you're creating something that threatens to destroy wealth, not build wealth if it doesn't work out, I just gave this advice maybe a half an hour ago. One of our Facebook communities, someone was geared up about my answer to, you know, what, if you had a hundred thousand dollars to get started in real estate investing. And I gave him the same advice you use debt on income producing assets and only income producing assets. That's if you are serious about building wealth. Yeah. What else is negotiating with the coach down to a level of what you can afford today?$20,000 as an upfront one-time payment is not that reasonable. And if they have that much value, I did this this morning. We, we committed to $20,000 for consulting services on a YouTube strategy. I've followed these folks. I've vetted them and I see the value, but we were able to get them to spread it out over five months and there's accountability built in. So right, coach, he'll spread it out where you can end installments where you can afford it. And I'll say that I've even done that with organizations as big as Tony Robbins international. There's no coaching company too big to give you an installment plan. Yeah. And that's that, that's what I offered because I mean, we got, we got the overall cost down to the point where the coach feels that it's fair. And then at the same time, you know, I just said, Hey, look, you know, I'm serious about it. So I could pay X amount today. And I kind of broke it down as to how, you know, you know, then I said, I have an escrow closing in two weeks. I could get you another X amount then. And then in the next four months, you'll get this, this much, this much, this, I just broke it down. So, and I even said, you know, we could do it at six months or less. So I'll happily show you everything that's going on. But for some reason it was just like prepay or nothing. I'm like, that's strange, but okay. I mean, so that's why I was looking at it, but I'm happy. I'm happy that, that I purposely waited for, for for today's call to kind of go over the payment options to talk to you, because I don't know about the business lines of credit. And realistically, had you not told me that. So it sounds like you're telling me for this type of stuff. It would probably be best to just, if I have the capital to just pay it because it's not income producing. If it's not generating additional money essentially does it, did I understand correctly in an expansive debt environment like we're in right now, we're all, we're all high on the fumes of the federal reserve, right? So we're in this debt fueled craze of everything going on and it's, it's, it's easy to fall prey to, well, everything's going so well in my business. I'll be fine and not think about what happens if it's not going well. And I still have that payment to make, how long would it take me and 20 by 20% hell even 6% interest will eat you alive. Like. It's unreal. How, you know, when it compounds. So McKenna and I last night, we played with a compound interest calculator just on, you know, Arizona has a low state tax, but we looked at the next 40 years of her career paying a four and a half percent tax over 40 years. And if, instead of paying that expense, she would just invest 14, $2,400 a year. I believe it was, we would end up with almost $3.6 million when she retired, 6% can seem insignificant right now. But at the end of 40 years of your career, if you're paying all that debt service and all that interest, you're cheating yourself out of millions of dollars with a brain like yours. I can guarantee that's true. Thank you. And, oh, by the way, just, I don't want you to think that I'm ignoring the topic. The one we discussed last week about that that property that I was thinking of flipping she ended up deciding to keep it, so she's going to keep it and rent it out. So. that particular, project's not going to go... not so fast, but what happens to most first time landlords when they decide to try renting it? Oh, she's good at she's having me run all that stuff. So it's fine. I'm just playing the long ball, you know? So for now... In 10 months, you have that appointment all over again, conversation that gives you 60 days to prepare for the end of the first lease to cycle them out and sell the property 80% of the time. That's the outcome. Yeah. She, she asked me already to meet with the contractor to just kind of advise on what should be done to get it ready for market. And then yeah. Didn't want her to get suspicious. I said, look, I'm going to play the long ball right now. I'll do what she wants to do as far as lease, you know, I'm, I'm going to be the agent for that. Anyways. She wants me to manage all that stuff anyways. So I'll know all the ins and outs and all that stuff. So, I'm confident about that. Just wanted to give you an update. So you don't think it's I just kinda, you know, forgot. I'll say this I've, I've worked with thousands of people in this space. I think you take the cake. As far as someone who's willing to hold themselves accountable in front of the community, it takes a lot of courage. So you always circle back and hold yourself accountable. And I think that's awesome for you to show everyone else. We can all stand to do that. Thank you. I do want to open the floor to bill gross cause he he's going to kick me off my soap box, my community bank soap box.. Bill said, I use Wells Fargo got a great line of credit plus a huge credit card line use for my business, a brand new corporation. So obviously I, you know, it took me 40 years, but I finally made a mistake. There's getting so there's, there's lots of banks out there. If you have banking relationships you know, don't write them off just because I say so, maybe start there and if you need a fall back position and look at some of the suggestions that I made, how can we help you today? Around there, Rodger? Hey, Chad, is there running a marathon in the background there? Yeah, that was a little 10. K it's me doing some Hey first off, I want to say thank you for your advice a couple of weeks ago on the property I'm working on. Uh, So far so good. And again, when you said a couple of weeks ago or constantly about work on a relationship, show empathy, and real estate will come: True statement. And the final thing I ask is um, I went to all the leads for credibility website, but when I look at it, I haven't approved it yet, but when I look at it, it looks to be a little aggressive in my thoughts, as opposed to showing the empathy. Do you have any advice on. What's the intent of having a website for you specifically? It's not a trap. It's just a, to show credibility for people to go to. If they want to look, check me out or what have you just the credibility, but it kind of glares out, Hey, do you need to move property fast or whatever? And I just, that's not really the story I want to get across. So yeah. So you have a couple options here. One, you work with their team to actually make the copy on the site that your business values. They should be willing to do that depending on their levels workload right now too, As you make a choice to make an investment in your business and a website can be a cash producing asset. So it's something that David Pannell has, really gotten serious about this year. I'll tell you to build a website that will actually inbound real business. You're probably looking at a $50,000 investment, bare minimum, and that's not just in development costs. That's what it costs to produce content at the way we're doing this. It just takes, it takes experts like Kat and McKenna to really pull it off and get that traffic coming in because it's the internet is a pretty competitive place. So if your objective is to find a place to land traffic from direct mail and not worry about SEO, Then you can go with an out of the box solution, just make sure that you feel good about it, or don't buy it period. Like it fits your business values and who you are in there, and you can't get that customized, go find a different solution. But if you really want to build something for the longterm that when really own this and your market, then it might be time to consider actually hiring a developer and building out a website that will actually be the magnet for business. Oh, the one thing I'll say, if you're going to the best and a custom website with the intent of getting your own traffic, you should question every developer and make sure that you get in writing it's unique content that will only be on your website, because if you're buying a service, like, you know, that that claims to be an SEO package, but it's using duplicate content from, for, you know, a hundred different people. You're not going to get the SEO that you were presented. So if you're truly looking to invest in something that will bring leads to your business, that's proprietary, usually that's a custom solution, not an outside of the out of the box solution or. But just make sure that, that you have a clear understanding of what that is, that it is your own unique content not found anywhere else. Then it's a live investment. Otherwise you need to be you need to be doing direct marketing to point traffic to any of those other solutions or nobody will ever see them. Right. Man. It's just a rabbit hole that you got to really go back and watch what Chad said, Roger. I mean really watch this video again and just really dig down those words. He just said, man, I've been working on a website for 15 years and that's, I mean, it's not, not completely, but trying to figure it out. You just gotta be real careful. Yeah. It's, it's interesting. Like technology seems like, you know, it just works. You put something out there it'll eventually work, but it really a valuable website isn't that much different than a luxury home. Like if you want that result like that luxury experience, nothing, nothing comes without an exchange of energy. And typically in our society, that energy is measured in dollars and capitalism. So it to build a really effective lasting website in any niche, in any industry, it's a considerable amount of money and human effort. And then anything that claims to be a shortcut. it's not a shortcut to that same result, it may be easier. It may be more affordable, but it's not the same result. No. Absolutely no shortcut. I'm sorry. I keep interrupting Chad, but yeah, this is a very, very touchy subject for me. And I could get really, it just pisses me off when I hear people just don't want to do one job because they want to cheat on another job and you're just not going to get that result. I make calls and I do what I need to do as a realtor. And I'm putting money into my website because eventually it's going to take away that job of doing that prospecting job. this week alone, I spent$3,500 on content on future articles for this month for 30 articles that are written by a writer here locally. You have the full creative license to that content, you own it. Nobody else has access, right. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's subdivisions here in Fort worth. If you heard that word from Chad, he said, niche, find a niche and probates a niche. But what else is in probate that we could do? Are we buying houses? Are we listing houses? Are we helping them get the garbage out of the house? Drill down that niche and that is your website. It can't be everything for everybody because when you send people there or you tell people about the website, they're going to go there and get an impression of you within five seconds. What is that website saying? Five seconds of you. I just bought a house from a lady on Monday. That she watched one video and she knows that I, could fix her house. So she wants me to fix her house up because I had a video that's five years old. I forgot it was on YouTube, but it's a house that we fixed up. It's matches her house, but she only watched probably 30 seconds of that video. And I got the call them buy that house, flipping out. I bought a probate. Yeah. don't buy a website that everybody else is getting. Don't hire somebody. That's going to make you a template site. Write down your target market, man. Like what? I wish I could show you what I'm working. Well, I already show people on my senior stuff. Oh man. It just fires me up. Y'all y'all just need to think about your target market. I just had a lunch with a guy he's a young kid and he's delivering pizzas. Right? He delivers pizza. He's 25 years old and he's doing it on the weekend. Cause he's, he lives within range to do this. He's like, Hey, I think I'm gonna wrap my car with a Papa John's pizza and I'm going to put a code on it. So when people order pizza, they could use my code to get discounts on pizza and I'll get paid. I'm like, that's the same mentality. When you think about, nobody's going to call your alpha marketing, right? That's alpha. What do you call it? Chad, probably a marketing where people are just going to think about the brand when it goes past them When you're a billboard marketing, when you're your first postcard that goes in the mail, your first letter that goes in the mail, your first phone call, your first voicemail, you gotta be beta. Beta is follow-up beta betas, where you're going to get all the business when everybody else gives up. It's that eighth letter is that fourth postcard is that ninth voicemail is that website. That's, niche-y so much, you have 30 articles talking about one topic with one back link going where you want them to direct their information, man, it's just so insane. If you just think about your target market and where you want to lead them, I want to get either someone on the phone to go somewhere or someone from a letter to go somewhere and get a five second impression to use me or to hire me or to at least have me on there. And if you're more than five seconds, you won't do business with. And that's why the five is so critical. Just getting no, David's want a lot of things, right guys. They, can we share you mind if I share your, your website so they can kind of see what we're talking about? I don't know if you'll find it. It's very, yeah. I mean, I could, like, you could go on my website and look for blog categories. And one of them is 55 things seniors need to know. It's going to be 55 blog articles, but I'm going to sprinkle in their probate stuff. I'm going to sprinkle in their success stories. So that's going to end up being 169 articles in the next six months that are all going to link to one spot. And Chad and I will tell y'all about this later, but. It's going to link to them, interacting with me so that hopefully that pre probate stuff will actually kick in. Yep. Okay. Well, thanks for that day. Thanks. Ryan, you've been patiently waiting. How can I help you? First I just wanted to introduce myself. I'm Ryan, I'm brand new to the group. First time in one of these calls, you know, I'm kind of new to investing overall. I'm actually in, I know I said this in the in the chat to Bruce, but this is open to anybody I'm, I'm in a, another mentorship called a sub to, with pace Morby. If people have questions for creative financing, I can obviously pass them along if then, you know, if they can't get to you or something like that, I'm more than happy to do that for everybody. And you know, I do have some questions, but I'm trying to stay focused. Keep everything. You know, there's a lot coming at me right now and I'm like brand new to this space. So I'm just trying to get to the bottom of some stuff. I mean, I got one meeting with a probate attorney on Thursday and I've got like the pitch I want to give him and everything and I'm trying to like figure that out, but there's a few things that I just need to clear up. Did you the episode with Rilus Dana the, yeah, I just watched it last night. I just wanted to make sure. Yeah. So basically, I mean, while we're talking about Rilus, I mean, he's like, buddies with pace there's a whole series in the, in that mentorship. It's actually, what brought me here was, was that idea and you know, for all came through sub to, to come to this, so. There they talk about, Pace found a way to be able to like pay the attorney on the backend of some of the deals that are happening like legally and ethically. I don't know if you know anything about that or to be able to involve them on the, in the referral of the actual deal. Who are you want me to teach you how to lose money, lose money? Well, if you're paying a referral fee aren't you losing money? I see what. So, what we teach in this community is build so much value. The attorney doesn't expect her referral fee and it's going to be hard to charge for me to even compromise on that opinion, because I have so much validation I've never had to. What we teach our students in this course is so damn valuable to the attorneys and that's the podcast that's coming up next week with a Florida probate attorney who's taking a stage in front of 5,000 people to talk about this tomorrow, where the right real estate professional will help that attorney scale their firm, it'll help them circumvent anti solicitation laws. It will help them provide a higher level of customer service and ultimately close cases faster. And that the family has more money. What the hell do you owe a referral fee for? You're helping them grow business? So yes, you can do it. I get a little bit dramatic about that. Cause I want to create an anchor in your memory. I don't have to discount myself because what I offer is so unique and especially you, if you're a creative financing specialist, you know how to do sub to wrap owner financing, land contract, contract for date, lease with option to purchase. You never discount that skill set. Gotcha. So with that in mind, like, like I'm struggling with the idea of like coming in, like offering this like service to the attorneys, like saying like, Hey, I'm going to be this, like one-stop shop for your clients to be able to, you know, do all this stuff. You know, when I come in and say, that's, that's what I'm doing, how do I become the guy who gets the referrals? Like how do I bridge that gap to then, like, after I'd build a relationship over some time to really get them to send me stuff and be in be in my corner? So based on the community that you're part of and, and what you've shown me about your personality so far, I would assume I'm going to make an assumption. You've got some pretty high net worth individuals in your network, right? I wouldn't like say like, they're like, Yeah. I'm around people who know what they're talking about. Yeah. Right. How many of them do you think how the state plans? I see where you're going with this, I've seen enough of your content. So, yeah, that's, that's what I'm always going to tell you is you, if you're going to walk into a vendor partner's office and you want to earn, you want ultimately selfishly to get referred. Then appeal to that selfishness in them and take them a referral. If you don't have a living trust, become the first referral. And it gives you an opportunity to vet this, this person out, to see if they clear your bar to see what their standard of service is to see, to build that relationship. Then they're going to get to know you the same. Like they're going to be like, holy crap, this guy Ryan's cut from different cloth. And that's part of, you know what Rilus and I talked about last week , when a legal professional find the right real estate professional. They'll bench, the rest of the team. And they'll, I mean, Roger Lecy is having some health issues. He's not here. He's, he's from Fayetteville, Arkansas older gentlemen that was terrified of prospecting when we first met, he was kinda, he was putting himself out to pasture, but he thought he'd try probate. Roger is now, he run the radio shows. He's paid as a real estate professional in divorce and probate testimony in courts. He really focused on the advice I just gave you.. He was find way to provide value to the attorneys. A secondary way, a less intimidating and easier to achieve way is what I mentioned about co-marketing where you can help that, that attorney circumvent restrictive non, solicitation law that won't allow them to direct market to people in probate or people who have the, you know, people were more affluent and should have an estate plan. You as a real estate professional, don't have that same limitation. So if you can work with them to design a marketing fees, and one of the most common ideas, you actually sit down and write out a probate checklist specific for your county and starting with, make funeral arrangements. You can go all the way back to the non-legal aspects of it and everything that's non-legal is one color, everything that's legal is another color. And then that attorney's information is on the footer of that, of that piece. And you included in every letter you sent. As, as a value add for the consumer. And then when the about 20% of them will be pro se or pro per meaning they won't have legal representation that gives them an opportunity. So you walk in the door and say, hi, my name is Ryan. I've got a social enterprise here locally that helps families going through probate. And your farm really got on my radar because of the standard of service you're providing and the reputation you have. I was hoping to sit down with one of the partners and discuss a marketing collaboration where I pay for your marketing and exchange to have my clients getting the level of legal service that I expect for them. Do you think they're going to talk the term with you, right? Yeah, absolutely. So the only problem I see with that personally is that I don't know if I have the bandwidth to be able to pay for their marketing. It's okay. I mean, you can do it there, digital fulfillment for now. What is your. So my marketing is basically, I mean, like I'm very, very new, like very new. So like, I've been cold calling and I'm just starting like maybe thinking about doing direct mail. Okay. So when, when you get direct mail into your marketing strategy, that will make sense if you walk in there and they're not, you know, to offer it on the phone instead of likely to be awkward. Right. But, so I would recommend find somebody in your family and your network, a past client. Your have you been in real estate for a while and you're new to investing or you're just getting into real. Yeah, I mean, so I was an appraiser for like a year and a half. And then now just, just now I switched over to trying to wholesale basically. And then I found this you know, the idea that I had was is that I was going to go in and say like, Hey, like I can. I can service your clients and bring value to your clients by being that referral hub? No, I was only a trainee. I never actually got the license. I had such a good marketing offer for you. Why would it, would it look like, go to the law firm and offer a free appraisal for every one of their clients? And then you hire a VA to fulfill and you check their work. Gotcha. But all right. So that's not really an option right now, but yeah, it is because you have right relationships in the appraisal space. Right. You have to see if he'll do the deal. Okay. One of the things I've done in the past is I bought a block of appraisals. So I'll go to an appraiser and I'm like, Hey man, we're unemployed every day. Aren't we like, we gotta, we gotta keep, keep grinding and keep getting those deals. How bout I prepay you for 10 appraisals at 50 cents on a dollar? The answer is always hell yes. So prepay photographers, appraisers, any, any home services companies prepay them for blocks of service and get it at a discount. So then the perceived value from the attorney is four or $500. Your real cost is going to be dependent on your relationship. It could be as little as a hundred bucks. Right? Gotcha. So like you're bootstrapping right now. I get that. We've all done it. And like, you really, really think like, you seem like a very intelligent person, use your head, think outside of the box. Like how can I provide value to any small business owner around me to get services and referrals in return and use your appraiser relationships to build attorney relationships. Awesome. That's great. That's really like, I would've never thought of that, like ever. So I appreciate it. Last question. Like, I don't want to take up too much time. Like I just have one more thing, the services like that hub, if I was market myself as that service, is that getting monetized somehow? Or is that like, just purely, for the sake of building the relationship? So that's the indirect, in most cases, that's the indirect monetization. So you're looking to play the spoke right now. You would be the spoke for real estate investor. Right. If I have it my way, I'd take somebody like you and encourage you to get licensed because you'll have a more a competitive advantage and no liability, in my opinion. And then you would be the realtor spoke. So you could have the broker to business as well as the investor business. And you can use creative financing and brokerage the same as you can as an investor. If you have the right broker. You could potentially fill the appraisal spoke like you could be the appraiser and that wheel, or you could use one of those relationships. We just talked about everything else is going to allow you to have a vertically integrated solution where you get paid is by attracting business that you wouldn't otherwise because the family can make one phone call or they can you look like you're way bigger than you actually are perceived value as a huge thing and business in general, but specifically in direct marketing. When you have that five second impression that David Pinel talked about when they see a vertically integrated solution with a team of vetted qualified professionals versus a yellow you know, iridescent postcard that showed up in the mail that said we buy houses who, what are they going to take more? So that is our marketing hook. So we don't necessarily look at hammering each of those partners for referral commissions or rev share or monthly fees or anything like that. What we do is we vet them. We make sure we're working with people that we trust will reciprocate in a referral relationship. Then we don't want to track all those variables. What I've found is when you find a good qualified professional that has the same kind of standard of ethics and standard of service that you do, they'll move mountains to send their business to you because you're different. The same reason you found them, they'll they'll attach to you. So I don't normally recommend trying to directly monetize your network. You're going to do that through referral reciprocation and you end directly monetize it over time. And that's where like Rodger Lecy who I mentioned earlier, he's in a market with 35 leads a month, but he's averaging five and six closings in the probate space.'cause he, he laid that groundwork. He built the right team that supports him as much as he supports them. Chad, I really appreciate it. Nice to meet you. Yeah. Thanks for being here. Welcome. All right guys, we've got a few more minutes. Katt I haven't been watching chat. Is there anything I need to look at anything? I missed one that says, say more about the photographer, real property and estate condition, et cetera. So what I was recommending there, like when that, if you are working at scale and you know that you're going to use up, you know, you, you know, you're going to have to shoot 40 listings, you know, that professional photography on 40 listings this year, meet with your photographer and sit down and say, you know, listen that cashflow is really important in business. Isn't it? So I know that I'm going to have at least 40 listings that I've, I've put on my goal sheet for this year that I'm willing to pay for this level of photography package. So, because I'm an at the top of the cashflow rollercoaster, you know, we're all on it. Sometimes there's peaks. Sometimes there are valleys I'm at the top of my class cashflow roller coaster. So as an accountability move and to help you as a trusted partner, I want to go ahead and prepay you for those 40 photography packages. But in order for doing that, like without, you know, charging, you like charging you interest on the money that I'm giving you, like, could you give me those packages at 50% off? And I'll, I'll have the payment to you to. You never know photography might be, they might need that cash more than, yeah. Well, I, in my minds I can think of someone that immediately would do it and where I was going is so thank you because I'll do it. And then I was, is there any need for it? Is there any need for an attorney to have the property or the state and condition photography, you know, photographed, I mean, Or is that something that they have their clients do for them? I recommend for every family is go in as soon as the funeral is over. If I'm, if I'm talking to them this early, get in the house with an iPhone and good lighting and take a video and photo of every damn thing in that house. Because if a family gets, I would say about a 25% chance that any estate could go sideways, people get ugly. Then you have a record and it's timestamped and geotagged, that's why I say use a cell phone. So as far as putting a professional photographer in there to get high quality photos, I don't see any value in that, but it's something you can offer and you can delegate to a very low wage person on your team. You could offer estate inventory service for every single person that opens your letter. And you while you're there, put a branded no trespassing sign on the window. The front says no trespassing. The back has your business card and an eight and a half by 11 business card that says no trespassing facing the street and says how great you are facing the interior of the house you need to get inside so it won't be blown off by the wind or stolen by somebody. It gives you a good reason to meet face to face, go inside the home, tape it on the inside of a window. And by the way, while you're there, why don't you do the inventory that gives you two really good hooks in the first conversation to get face to face by providing value first. So I have it that I wouldn't charge for him until. I mean, I wouldn't charge for it. I would use it as marketing. That's just kind of how I naturally think that there was wondering if it was weird. So we had one lady early in the day, at all the leads. This is funny. She was a really, really good listing agent and she was making a really good income, but she loved pressure washing and she would actually do free pressure washing for each estate. And I'm like, this is going to eat you alive. And eventually she disappeared and I'm like, maybe she pressure washed herself. Oh God. On that. But I was like, you can't be doing this. Like it's not dollar productive activity. She's like, it's so gratifying. It's every pass. It gets cleaner. All right. You obviously love pressure washing. So I w I one for Dave Pannell like when I. Just the comment of what it really takes to have a monetize website that was very helpful. Cause I'm dinking around with this thing forever and ever. Right. So my question is, is there any value to bringing in people like, like, even though it's not my content just referring to other people's content through my site, does that, does that count? It's not, it's not custom. I know it's not you and re- blogging, not nearly and native, like original something. They, before he answered one of the interject, there's a book that I should have recommended when we were having this conversation earlier, roger, if you're still here before you make a decision on your website and what what's going to work for you, I want a commitment from him. If you watch this recording, or if someone can tag him in Facebook, there you are. I see you now. I want a commitment from you that you'll read a read or listen to a book. And that book is they ask you answer.. It was written by a small business owner who owns a pool company in Northern Virginia and what he figured out that exploded his business. He now teaches as a marketing consultant. He wrote a book it's one of the most valuable marketing books, because it's all about the inbound strategy that, that, you know, it's called everywhere else. But it's about value first content marketing to bring business back to you. And it's the, there's a lots of books on inbound marketing. That one, I think is the best one that because it's written in layman's terms, it's got the author herself narrates and tells his own stories. I would recommend it in audio book format. But by understanding the principles in that book, you'll know who you need, what kind of work you need done and who you can delegate it to. You also, you know, it's kind of behind the looking glass. Like once you understand that if you connect with that message, you'll find it hard to be pleased with any out of the box solution. But for anyone who, if, if this, this conversation resonated with you today, please I, your homework is I challenge you to go read that book and it'll change the way you look at marketing, I think. Awesome. Thank you. Katt also said she likes the audio book better. David, I kind of like, I had to put a pad to interject, yeah. Okay. Yeah. You know, what, what are you going to do with that inbound traffic? And so if you don't have a good CRM and you're already, you know, in your heart, you're not following up with people the proper way, let's solve that problem first. Okay. Let's solve the issue. If you're buying data, if you're sending mail, if you're making phone calls, if you're not making seven or eight calls to those people that you don't have a good CRM. And I guarantee you, if you're not spending at least 300 a month on a CRM, you're not, you don't have a good one. You could go to these cheap ones that have an Excel sheet that kind of reminds you when to do something. When I wake up in the morning, I have 40 tasks to do every day and I set them for usually on Thursday. So I I'm always overdue, but I know I need to write a handwritten note to somebody. I know I need to call somebody and I need, I need that two people did my to my database every single day door, dash delivery people in that database. Yes. Yeah. There's a, there's a lot of junk. There's a lot of junk, but I think I better order hot dogs. Yeah, no, it's true. I mean, It's everybody's worried about get the listing, but how are we going to service that listing? Same thing. How are you going to follow up and service that person registering to your, your database? And I just told the investor, this, I took over his marketing. He bought he's purchased wholesale four houses from me in the last year. And he's like, I have two signs in his front yard now of we buy houses. Cause he's not taking those calls and he's not putting them in a database. I told, let me, let me solve that problem for you. You stay in your lane. I'm good at conversions. Let me do my job. Dave, if he's willing to do that, something I used to do for every house that I don't like, that I was flipping, I knew it was going to set for a long time. And the sign police never, ever gave me an issue on this. I printed out, I think it was three feet by six feet of banner that had my company logo. We, I buy houses, we buy houses. I tried different messaging. It was like 80 bucks. I probably bought six houses off of hanging a banner on the gutter. I would just drill holes in the gutter, put a zip tie on it and the grommets. So it wouldn't squeeze together. The wind wasn't hurt and then I would stake it out on the ground. And then it looked like, hell, but it's a construction site. It looks like hell anyways, we got attention. But for like 80 bucks, I made tens of thousands of dollars off those, those simple PVC banners that were on flip phone while they were under construction and other. You just got to think of ways you're going to get inbound calls. And then how are you going to deal with that phone call? Are we good at our communication? When that call comes in,, we don't, we know what to do with it. And luckily if you're going to have a banner like that or a sign like that, what are you going to do with that call? When it comes in, if you're making it go to your phone, it's just worthless because you're going to forget about the next call or when you get to the next red light, you know, it's think of. It's not worth building, if you don't have any way to capture the fish. Yeah. And that's something that the technology was just emerging. When I was done, I put my Google voice number on it. If I missed the call, I got a text message and an email immediately saying I missed the call if they left a voicemail and emailed me and transcription. But if I had it to do over again today, I would actually use a text code. Like, you know, we buy houses, texts, code FAS T to this number to connect with our team or to see, to see our work or to get this valuable offer, whatever it is. And the other thing I did is I would put a sign out front, like a coming soon sign. And I branded each of my flips. I was that it was called a portfolio of properties, signature home. So my homes under construction had a brand before they went to market. It was a portfolio of properties, was the team name, the brand at the time. And the type of home, that project almost call it a signature property. And that worked beautifully because people would look and they're like, oh my gosh, this guy's, he's got it. He's got it together. And that's how I think it's the second time I've talked about this probate Alice on this call, but one of them, I got came over. The banner was hanging on the house. He looking through the windows when I pull up and he's like, Mr. So-and-so, you know, we, we were neighbors. We built these thousands of the same. And he was like, this is, this house has never been anywhere near this. Nice. I got another house, about two miles from here. You want to buy it? I'd be honored to sell it to a man like you. And I'm like getting the damn truck. And I bought that. I bought that house for 13,000 bucks. Flipped it for 56 the next year. And she listed, he was completely checked out because it was a hoarder house and he was embarrassed about it. And he w he had very high standards of cleanliness and they took very good car care, his property. This was an aunt, he was the executor. He was ashamed of the property. The outside was gorgeous, but inside was, that was one. I had to wear a respirator to even go in and look at the house. But that's what kind of connecting all these ideas together. Lots of, I mean, there's a pretty free ranging conversation today. We were all over the place, but we are at the top of the hour, I do have to run. I hate to wrap up so quickly that sometimes I feel like we should see just how long people would hang in, hang into these conversations. Who's up for a marathon, just for the hell of it. When you went to that house. So they guy came to the house. He, he already made his decision of what he's gonna to do. Exactly. most people have already established a decision in their mind. So you just got to ask enough questions to get it out. So very true. Powerful lessons. And on guys, I'm going to run them at four o'clock that I'm late for. Thank you so much for being part of this community and everybody always participating and having great questions. See you here, man, but you got to have.