Augustus Muller — Innovative electronic musician, producer, film composer and one half of cult duo Boy Harsher, talks with Paul about his approach to music, highlighting his journey from a high school discovery of synthesizers right through to a current sabbatical in New York.
Augustus gives us an intimate look at his creative process. We delve into his experience with teaming up with Jae Mathews to form Boy Harsher, their DIY approach that led to the EBM/coldwave anthem Pain, the influence of film on his work and why a Hans Zimmer approach doesn’t work when scoring Vex Ashley's Femme-directed porn collected together on his recent Cellulosed Bodies album.
Augustus Muller's 'Cellulosed Bodies (Original Score)' — the album featuring two scores, 'Crash' and ‘Automaton' is out now via their own Nude Club Records.
Lost and Sound is proudly sponsored by Audio-Technica
Paul’s debut book, Coming To Berlin: Global Journeys Into An Electronic Music And Club Culture Capital is out now on Velocity Press. Click here to find out more.
Subscribe to the Lost and Sound Substack for fresh updates and writing here.
Lost and Sound title music by Thomas Giddins
Augustus Muller — Innovative electronic musician, producer, film composer and one half of cult duo Boy Harsher, talks with Paul about his approach to music, highlighting his journey from a high school discovery of synthesizers right through to a current sabbatical in New York.
Augustus gives us an intimate look at his creative process. We delve into his experience with teaming up with Jae Mathews to form Boy Harsher, their DIY approach that led to the EBM/coldwave anthem Pain, the influence of film on his work and why a Hans Zimmer approach doesn’t work when scoring Vex Ashley's Femme-directed porn collected together on his recent Cellulosed Bodies album.
Augustus Muller's 'Cellulosed Bodies (Original Score)' — the album featuring two scores, 'Crash' and ‘Automaton' is out now via their own Nude Club Records.
Lost and Sound is proudly sponsored by Audio-Technica
Paul’s debut book, Coming To Berlin: Global Journeys Into An Electronic Music And Club Culture Capital is out now on Velocity Press. Click here to find out more.
Subscribe to the Lost and Sound Substack for fresh updates and writing here.
Lost and Sound title music by Thomas Giddins
Lost and Sound is sponsored by Audio Technica. Audio Technica are a global but still family run company that make headphones, turntables, cartridges, microphones, studio quality yet affordable products, because they believe that high quality audio should be accessible to all. And I'm speaking to you right now wearing their M50X headphones, there for the studio, there for everyday. I speak to all my guests wearing them, including what you are about to hear on this episode, but whatever way you'd like to listen, head on over to AudioTechnicacom to check out all of their range of stuff. Okay then, you ready for an episode? Welcome to Lost and Sound. Hello and welcome to Lost and Sound. I'm Paul Hanford. I'm your host. I'm a writer, author and university lecturer based in Berlin, where I'm speaking to you now from, and this is the show where, each episode, I have conversations with the musical innovators, the outsiders, the mavericks, the artists that do their own unique thing, and we talk about music, creativity, life, the things that basically inspire us to make the things that we make. Previous guests have included peaches, suzanne Cianni, jim O'Rourke, chilly Gonzalez, hania, rani, ghost Poet, mickey Blanco, sleaford Mods and First and More, and today on the show, I have a chat with Augustus Muller. Okay, so this is a short one today. I hope you're doing really well. What I'm speaking to you right now, from doing this little talky bit at the beginning, is in Rosenteller Platz in central Berlin. It's a little bit windy today so I apologise if there's a little bit of wind noise over the microphone. But yes, I've just got back from a weekend away, a weekend holiday in the Baltics, right by the Baltic Sea, so I've still got a little bit of holiday haze about me. And, yeah, this is a short little interview today.
Speaker 1:This is a chat I had with Augustus Muller, musician, producer, filmmaker and film scoreist, one half of Colt's electronic duo, Boy Harsha, and we spoke initially. We had this conversation initially surrounding his score work in particularly the album Cellulose Bodies, which is a collection of two scores for short films, one called Crash and one called Automaton. And I originally got to know his work through Boy Harsha, particularly the track Pain, which went from being a cassette, where only 69 copies were printed up of this cassette, to being an underground global dance floor alternative dance floor smash. And I think there's a real consistency that runs between the film score work he does and his work as one half of Boy Harsha Boy Harsha formed by Augustus with Jay Matthews when they met in film school in Savannah, georgia, georgia the American Georgia, not the Georgia in Europe, that is, over the last decade and they developed a sound that's danceable, minimal, furry, physical, has touches of EBM, techno, cold wave, synth film scores that remind me of like John Carpenter and Goblin and that kind of like VHS kind of aesthetic. So it sort of fits with this that Augustus would find like a sort of a realm, a way of expressing himself through film scores.
Speaker 1:So we got talking because of the score he had done for Cellulose Bodies, which is the collection of Crash and Automaton, two short films made for the Four Chambers project, which is the fem centered experimental porn project of artist Vex Ashley. And as you can gather from what I'm saying if you're not familiar with his work, his work is sort of like this intermingling, his intermeshing of the body and the machine of analog sounding, pulses and arpeggiators and EBM beats and VHS aesthetic with all of the things that go with that. So it was a really good combination when I started listening to these soundtracks. It's a really good combination of sounds going on with it. So I was really really interested to talk with him about this and about his process. So, yes, we had this conversation about a week ago, right at the end of September 2023. It's a short little one, and this is what happened. Hey, we're doing it. How are you doing? You're right.
Speaker 2:Doing pretty good. Yeah, how are you?
Speaker 1:I'm good, thank you. Where am I speaking to you from? Where are you now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I just landed in New York City. I'm doing like a little sabbatical here for the next few weeks trying to work on some new music.
Speaker 1:Amazing. So you're not from New York City, though, are you?
Speaker 2:No, I'm from a little town in Massachusetts called Northampton.
Speaker 1:Right, and so do you find like getting away from Northampton is a good way to get inspiration. Is that like a way you go to to kind of get ideas and be in a different place?
Speaker 2:Honestly, I've never done it before. I, like have been building my studio there for like the last 10 years, so I thought I, like you know, had the perfect set up there, but I don't know. I'm looking for some new inspiration. So then I would change things up a little bit.
Speaker 1:Nice and is there like a particular way in the past you've sort of looked for inspiration. Do you look sort of like your surroundings and stuff, or does it come from somewhere else?
Speaker 2:I think I just kind of had a goal. I kind of knew what I wanted to make. For the last 10 years there's been a song in my head that I've been trying to make. So it's just like I didn't really need inspiration. I just would go to the studio, try to make that song every time. But yeah, boy Harsher has been a band for 10 years, so I feel like yeah. I need to start trying something new.
Speaker 1:Amazing. So today, you know the album is a collection of two scores. Cellulose Bodies is the collective name of it, so that's kind of come out quite recently. And can you tell me a little bit about how the score came about?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I always wanted to do score and soundtracks and just like making music to film and video. Four Chambers is like a cool lead space company Met Vex at a show of ours like back in 2019. And just sort of like through that idea out there, like, hey, I'd love to write something original for you guys. And then, yeah, a few months later, we started working on sort of the first iteration of that, which was an album I put out in 2020 called Machine Learning Experiments, and then, during kind of the COVID break in 2021, I did two more films.
Speaker 1:And what is the difference for you between doing a film school and working on boy harsher stuff or other work that is, doesn't you know? You're not, you're not scoring to a medium. I mean, how differently do you approach doing that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's very different. It's a collaboration. I mean, you're working with visuals and that's giving you the inspiration and that's giving you sort of like the framework of how to write music. And it could be tough because you're working with like a really tight deadline, but it also makes you come up with things you never thought was possible. You know, sounds and like sort of genres that I hadn't tapped into yet, like start coming out of the woodwork.
Speaker 1:And do you think, because you're making something for someone else. In a sense, it kind of does give you a little bit of freedom, in a way, to experiment and try different things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. I mean I'm going to make something that feels sincere to me. That sounds like it's coming from like my personality. But yeah, when you're working with visuals, like you'll try something and it'll just sort of lock in with the visuals in like a way you didn't think was possible.
Speaker 1:There must be such a nice feeling when you know maybe, maybe you're just hoping it's going to work and then you see it locking in and you go in. That's the sort of synergy between film and music, yeah definitely, definitely.
Speaker 2:Because it's like you listen to that track by itself and you're like maybe that doesn't have it, but then it's like, yeah, there's harmony with the visuals.
Speaker 1:And then I guess it's also the case of like hoping that the filmmaker or the director really likes it as well, and there must be this little moment of thinking God, I think this works, but I really really hope she does.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally. I mean, it's like not ego driven. You know, the music's definitely like in the backseat With the stuff, with four chambers, you know, I think the music plays a bigger role. But like on a feature film or like a narrative film, it's like, yeah, very much like sort of an afterthought.
Speaker 1:Hmm, I mean, what's also interesting about the two scores for Crash and Automaton are the ones they're made by four chambers and they're kind of fem made and focused adult films. They're very sexual and very provocative. Was this in a challenge in any way for you, kind of approaching the material?
Speaker 2:No, not really. Yeah, I mean I took it pretty seriously. I was just like I had it up on the monitor. You know I'm right into the tone, right into the rhythm. I, you know Klaus Schultz said, did some scores for porn and like Patrick Cowley, are like big influences on me. So I was just pretty eager to join that collective.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I guess there's a connection in terms of rhythm and repetition with porn and electronic music as well. Was that something you dug into?
Speaker 2:Yeah probably too seriously, like tapping out the tempo to people fucking, so yeah, but it was fun and I think I made something I'm proud of.
Speaker 1:And did you base the tempo on the fucking as well?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, definitely I'd be like oh yeah, we got to turn this down a little bit. Yeah, I'm going to amp this up too much. Yeah, and the first time, like the first score I did, you know, there was like a come shot and I just like really sort of like made it go too far, like it just got like too emotional. It was like a hot, like a haunts simmer, like like crescendo, and Vexus was like, yeah, like let's just tone it down a little bit, and I was like all right, yeah, totally, totally, we can be a little bit more subtle.
Speaker 1:Definitely they must have given you sort of like you know, like thinking, like they're fucking in 120 bpm or something like that yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's good.
Speaker 2:You know, I think slower is the better for most of those films. They're kind of like slow and like, yeah, disassociative.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they remind me as well of you know. They definitely take a kind of more of a cinematic approach as well, they're. You know, I sort of feel elements of like Kronenberg when I'm watching them as well and that kind of like body horror kind of element. Were they influenced? Because I know film is a really important part of your makeup as well Were these kind of quite big influences for you?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, definitely. I mean Kronenberg's Huge Crash is one of my favorite films, so that was like sort of a no brainer. I was definitely trying to channel that Howard Shore score when I first started out, but then when I got into it I was like there's no way I can touch what he did, so I had to just like start from scratch.
Speaker 1:I think that's quite often the way with inspiration, isn't it? Well, we sort of have like an idea of like the things that we're into, or, and then you sort of leave that after a while and you enter into your own terrain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, it's like still definitely a learning experience for me. You know I'm new to this, so like I'm not sure what I'm capable of. So you know I'll set, you know goals and like set references and you know I'll try to achieve them. Sometimes I can, sometimes I can. I got to sort of reframe things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and like the theme of the two films is kind of body meets machine and I feel that feels particularly apt with looking into your music generally as well anyway, that there's this sort of real connection between the kind of warmth that you get from. It's kind of like a contradiction in a way between like the kind of warmth that you get from analogue textures and arpeggios and the idea that basically it is machine music as well. You know, is that something that sort of is interested you, the sort of combination of just humanity and machine in music?
Speaker 2:I mean, it definitely interests me. I think the reason I use synthesizers, though, is just out of necessity. Like acoustic instruments, I like don't have the technical chops to pick, you know, pick up a violin and lay down something, but the computer is something that's sort of like saved me as an artist, like if I didn't have this technology, I don't think I would be making music.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and going back to the beginning, is that? Was there like a point where you first connected with synthesizers and computers and saw that as being a way to make to express yourself?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've had a synth in high school that I just like found in like the band room. It was like this old Roland synth the MC3 or 3, that just has like a bunch of samples of kind of the whole like line of Roland synths, so lots of iconic sounds on it, but in a little box and I just remember like finding a patch on that and like holding it down and like finding like the cutoff filter and just sweeping that and realizing like, oh wow, that's like an entire song, that's like an entire composition. And that's something I hadn't experienced before, because all my friends were like in bands, like rock bands, that could all play their instruments. I couldn't do that, so I was like, oh well, music's not for me. But then when I found that I was like, oh, I'm going to keep messing around with this, but like in a very like secretive way, right, so you kept it kind of quite private for a while.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, definitely, it was like something I did.
Speaker 2:I was in a film. I went to film school and I was like wanted to make music for my films, you know so that the emphasis wasn't on music. But then slowly, I was just like working on music in the background and it kind of became the priority.
Speaker 1:And so this was back in Massachusetts. Yeah, back in Massachusetts, yeah.
Speaker 2:I went to high school in Massachusetts. I moved to Austin when I was 18 for a couple of years and then eventually went to college in Savannah Georgia.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so this was what, like maybe how long ago was this that you were kind of discovering this?
Speaker 2:I really started messing around with music, probably like 2009.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so you're saying, like friends were more into bands and was this something that was like more your background as well and kind of what were the bands and what was the scene like at the time?
Speaker 2:I'm in high school I feel like, yeah, just like Indie Rock was like very, very big People are in bands like I don't know. That sounded like modest mouse.
Speaker 2:And I was definitely into that, but it wasn't like something I could recreate. I got into like hip hop to like lots of like kind of golden age hip hop like Mom Deep and like Wu Tang Clan and like wanted to make beats, and that was like sort of my entryway. I was like I'm gonna make beats, yeah, and that kind of started me on my journey through like synthesizers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I think, because I used to make music and I think my introduction and I was making electronic music as well, and it was a similar kind of thing where I came from a band background and rock background, but finding synths and like samplers and computers was a way that I felt like I could actually get a sound that I wanted. You know, I've never really been bothered about being a virtuoso or you know, I don't think I've got the application or the skill to kind of go to that level and I never really wanted to. You know what about you? Because you know, also, like boy, harshest music and your music is very sort of, in a lot of ways it's very pure, it's like stripped to the essence of the sounds and the melodies that you use. Is it, was that always something that you kind of felt that you wanted to stick to? And you know, or are there plans to sort of go vangelis at some point?
Speaker 2:I mean, like minimalism has always been like something that just makes sense to me, like I can't wear more than a couple of colors at the same time, like just too much noise just kind of confuses me. So yeah, when I'm writing a song, I just like want to hear those elements, I just want like everything to sort of fit and like if I'm stacking too many tracks, it just like just makes me like kind of anxious.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and how did you meet Jay?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Jay was in film school with me. She was in the graduate program. I was an undergraduate program at a film school down there and she was like sort of like a hotshot producer on campus. She was like putting up this film that I saw Flyers for like in the in the in the classroom. So I actually applied for a film she was working on as I was trying to get into production design back then. So I applied to be the art director on her film and we sort of just hit it off like we just had like really similar tastes and, yeah, we started working together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and did the idea for the kind of sound kind of come about immediately, or was that just through playing around?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good question. I think it was sort of the sounds I was making I was like messing around with I mean sort of like the minimal synth thing was almost an accident. Like I was like getting kind of into the noise based techno stuff at the time. It was like a really cool time for electronic music, at least in like the States back then. It was like all these like noise people started putting like beats behind sort of their noise sets and that like I thought was really cool because I loved going to those shows and just like hearing like Wallace Sound four track sets but then you like introduced like a drum machine to that and I was just like, wow, this is so powerful and so raw. But then I started working with Jay and I was like, well, we need to add like a melodic element to that. So it was just like about adding a slight melody to sort of like these like noisy techno songs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, a lot of people kind of talk about the kind of EBM textures or the sounds and you know there is like a sort of you know whether it's conscious or not, you know I do get pictures of kind of a cold wave and EBM Is that sometimes, like you know, when people talk about people, music that other people have made, you know like, as in people like me or critics or journalists, we sort of describe it to stuff and it might not actually be accurate to like what you were listening to. But what was where you kind of like digging the kind of body music and the EBM at the same time? Or is that something that kind of came about just through other people making that connection?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was into it a little bit. I mean, I was like aware of it. You know, I'd like bands like DAF, I like bands like Suicide. I think those were kind of touchstones for us. But, like sense, someone like compared us to like EBM band. That's like when I started digging and started sort of started finding more and more music.
Speaker 1:And that there is a real connection with that music and punk as well. I think and I kind of get like a real punk feeling from your music as well that it is so stripped down and it kind of just gets to the essence of stuff as well. And you know you have your own label as well. You and Jay have your own label, newt Club, and you know the whole idea of doing stuff DIY, you know, is that which is very punk in itself. Is that quite an influence on you to kind of kind of keep things DIY and raw, like that?
Speaker 2:I think so. I mean, we started out so small and we didn't really know what we were doing. So I'm sort of happy it took this pace, because we sort of learned everything in real time, but the stakes were super low. It's not like we were thrust onto a big stage, it's like we could sort of find ourselves and discover ourselves as it was developing. Yeah, I mean, I think we're at another level now and I'm looking at, like, what the other alternatives are and sort of weighing what the pros and cons are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, it must be nice not to. I mean, I think sometimes people when they're pushed into the limelight too quickly or their careers are accelerated too quickly, it can be a little bit of a weird thing. You know, it's sort of you have to kind of. You know it's like being off kilter a bit. Some people really rise to it. But were you quite glad that you know you? You know there has been this kind of ascendance but that it's like you say, it has gone at a pace that has been maybe manageable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean there's, I mean there's. There's never been a time where we wrote music because we're like, oh, this will hit a wider audience. We've always done things like. We like the way this sounds, we like the way this looks, this is the vibe we're trying to put out there. I'm just happy we did it that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's got a comfort from what you feel. Otherwise, it's just meaningless really, isn't it?
Speaker 2:I mean, that's music for me. It has to be sincere, it has to be genuine. That's what powerful music is. If you're faking any part of it, then it's just like. I think people can tell right away and it's just off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think you have to be prepared for the failure as well. As long as you're being genuine, then it's not really. I don't really consider anything that's genuine a failure to when we make it ourselves. That's just the outside world, isn't?
Speaker 2:it really. Yeah, that's why I play music. It's almost a journal for me Me recording a song. It's putting that time period into a capsule and saving it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but then, at the same time as that, I first became aware of Boy Harsha, for example, with the track Pain. I live in Berlin and I did feel like there was this, even if it was just an atmosphere or my imagination, like a connection between the darkness of Techno, of Berlin and the textures that you were using you and Jay were using. The track became a bit of an anthem really. Was that a surprise when it did?
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. I mean, we released that song on a cassette edition of 69 copies. We went on tour, we played basements and then a year later, someone uploaded it on YouTube and it started getting some traction. Yeah, it continues to amaze me how far that song's gone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you ever listen to old stuff back, or is it always about moving on?
Speaker 2:No, I definitely do. I write my music for me. It's something I like. I definitely like to check in on it. I've listened to it thousands of times between recording it, mixing it, mastering it, playing it. But yeah, I definitely go back and reference it, especially as I'm working on a new album. I'm just trying to channel it. It's a reference. At this point, if you're looking at a mood board for a new album, this is obviously a part of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's interesting, isn't it? Some people just never listen. But there was that old thing about Scott Walker would spend years on an album, listen to it once in the studio and then never listen to it again afterwards. I definitely respect that kind of way of doing things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean if he's got the confidence to know it's just like a smash hit hearing it that one time. But the only way I know it's good is if I can listen to it so many times. I need to keep listening to it over and over again. If I can take it to the next step, start mixing it. That's like okay, I know there's something in this track.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And also the film the Runner as well. I mean, obviously, because you both met at film school and film has always been such an important integral part of what you do, would you say, look, film came before music for you. Oh, yeah, definitely. And so how did the idea of the Runner come about?
Speaker 2:Well, I think it was like beginning at what was it? Like you know, end of 2020, like no one knows if shows are coming back. Everyone's like crass mouna at straws. Livestreams are really hot. Everyone's doing a livestream. You know we're talking about doing a livestream and that we were just sort of spitballing on the idea of a livestream because slowly, livestreams became less and less a livestream. Like they were like first live and then they were prerecorded and then they were like edited really well and then they just like the production value kept going higher and higher on them. So we're like, well, let's just make like a livestream that's also like a film. And then it just sort of became, you know, like a narrative film with some a little bit of performance in it. I mean, we started carving less and less of the performance out of it as the project expanded.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and does that lead you to the future? Do you have, like, future film ideas that you want to develop?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, 100%. That's something we're definitely working on. It's just like a whole other realm. You need a million dollars to make a movie. You need like it's just a. It's a much bigger event. So we're putting that, we're putting some effort behind that, but it could take time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what would you, what would you sort of you know, because so much of what you've done has come from like a DIY background and you know you've carved this way that is very kind of unique and very singular. You know, what would you sort of say to? You know, perhaps people that like 10, 15 years younger than you, that are kind of maybe like you 10, 15, maybe 15 years ago, that are kind of you know, like maybe aren't playing, they could say I don't think so many people are playing guitars anymore, but you know what I mean that aren't feeling like they're perhaps compatible to do to enter the music industry or like fuck the music industry. But like you know, not feeling perhaps confident to go and make their own artistic statements, like what would you say with the things that sort of helped you that you could pass on to other people that are, you know, in that point now, yeah, I mean, I think you just need to follow what you're motivated to do.
Speaker 2:You know, for me making music was something I could do on a Friday night when everyone went out everyone else went out to a party Like I would have a great time just going home and like making music. So like find what that is, like, what isn't a chore, what isn't work, and invest in that and just sort of follow whatever you're motivated in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it does seem to be like, from what you're saying as well about, like the, you know loving listening to your music, that there's no point necessarily in doing anything unless you're you just actually love it. I think sometimes we feel like we're pushing ourselves to do stuff but when we actually do it we don't really enjoy it, you know. But you seem to like enjoy every stage of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, it's a full-time job now, so it's just like now I'm. I still follow that philosophy. You know, if I don't feel like writing music, someday I'll, you know, work on my DJ playlists, or I'll work on some design, or if all else fails, I'll try to watch a film or like listen to some other music, just like trying to stay, you know, productive in some way.
Speaker 1:Okay, so that was me, paul Hanford, talking with Augustus Muller for Lost in Sound podcast. We had that conversation on September, the 26th 2023. Cellulose bodies the soundtrack is out now on on Boy Harsh's own nude club label. And, yes, thank you so much, augustus, for sort it, for having a chat with me. Thank you so much, kate Price, for arranging that chat and yes, lost in Sound is sponsored by Audio Technica. Audio Technica are global but still family run company that make headphones, turntables, cartridges, microphones, studio quality yet affordable products, because they believe that high quality audio should be accessible to all. So, wherever you are in the world, head on over to audiotechnicacom. My book coming to Berlin is available in all good bookshops and via the publisher, velocity Press's website. And thanks to Tom Giddens. Tom Giddens does the music you hear at the beginning, at the end of every episode of Lost in Sound. But, most of all, thanks to you. Thanks so much for listening. I hope you're having a really, really lovely day and, yeah, chat to you soon.