Anenon

Paul heads into a deep dive into the transformative world of improvised music, where Anenon aka Brian Allen Simon shares his artistic evolution. From crafting beats in LA's vibrant Low End Theory scene to the raw, unedited improv of his latest work 'Moons Melt Milk Lights,' we uncover the emotional resonance that springs forth when production veils are lifted.

Embark on a journey through the creative ebbs and flows that define a musician's life, as Anenon recounts his transition from a digital realm to the tangible immediacy of live performance. The quiet of the pandemic served as an unlikely muse, presenting Anenon with the time to refine his mastery of saxophone and piano – a path that culminated in an album unmarked by edits, a pure expression of presence and vulnerability.

Moons Melt Milk Light is out now on Tonal Union

Presented and produced by Paul Hanford 

Paul Hanford on Instagram

Lost and Sound is proudly sponsored by Audio-Technica

Paul’s debut book, Coming To Berlin: Global Journeys Into An Electronic Music And Club Culture Capital is out now on Velocity Press. Click here to find out more. 

Subscribe to the Lost and Sound Substack for fresh updates and writing.

Lost and Sound title music by Thomas Giddins

Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:02

How are your headphones? Are they okay? I'm not really an earbuds person maybe one day I will be, but for right now I'm wearing a pair of Audio Technica ATH M50 headphones. I love them. They fit great and snug for the studio or out, like I am at the moment, on a very windy street in Berlin. They're made by Audio Technica, as I mentioned, a global but family-run company that make headphones, turntables, cartridges, microphones studio quality but genuinely affordable products, because they believe that high quality audio should be accessible to all. They also sponsor Lost and Sound. So, wherever you are in the world, head on over to AudioTechnicacom to check out all of their range of stuff.

Speaker 2: 1:22

Hello and welcome to episode 100 of Audio Technica. I'm Paul Hanford, I'm your host, I'm an author, a broadcaster and a lecturer, and this is the show where, each episode, I have conversations with the musical innovators, the outsiders, the mavericks, the artists that do their own unique thing, and we talk about music, creativity, life, the things that inspire us to make the things that we make. Previous guests have included Peaches, suzanne Chiani, jim O'Rourke, chilly Gonzalez, cosy Fanny Tutti, jean-michel Jarre, mickey Blanco and First and More. And today we go over to LA to talk improvisation and a little bit of natural wine with my guest, a Nenon. Meanwhile, I'm speaking to you from a very, very, very windy Berlin. Right now it's a little bit warmer than it has been, but it's incredibly windy, and this is also the city where, as you probably know, I wrote a book about coming to Berlin. It's the name of the book. It's available in all good book shops or via the publisher, velocity Press's website.

Speaker 2: 2:35

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, but right now, yes, you're going to hear a conversation I had a couple of weeks back with Brian Alan Simon, better known under the moniker. He releases music in as a Nenon, a LA-born and based musician that, since 2010, has been releasing solo albums. Solo albums and multiple EPs. Brian's journey as an artist started off making electronic music emerging, in part out of the hugely influential low-end theory, the experimental weekly hip-hop and electronic music club that ran between 2006 and 2018. It was a place where artists like Flying Lotus, daedalus, kamazai Washington and Nossage Fing would go test stuff a real breeding ground. The repercussions of the sounds and the kind of freedom there are still being felt within in experimental music right now, and Brian played a part of that. More recently, he's moved away from electronic and more processed music with his releases and we were here today basically to talk to connect it together, to talk about an album he put out the end of last year called Moons Melt's Milk Lights, which is released on the UK imprint's Tonal Union. The album is based around improvisations, largely on sax and piano, and also Brian also runs his own natural wine business.

Speaker 2: 4:10

So a lot of this conversation is about improv. Oh God, it's so windy, isn't it? I hope that's not distorting too much where you're listening to it. And one of the things that I'm not an expert on improv by any means whatsoever but one of the things that really draws me to the concept of improv is about this kind of essence that when people can do improv well, or when something happens where they're able to communicate through improv in their music, that there's something so immediately that connects to their emotions and their expression. It's like doing improv you kind of bypass the processes that other music types of music go through, like sort of songwriting and like the kind of layering of production which requires going back and thinking about and readjusting things, and obviously you get, like you know, incredible results with that as well. I'm not saying like I only like improv like. I like improv, but I like all kinds of music. But when improv is done well which I think it is done on the latest Anenon album which we talk about there is this kind of feeling of direct communication between the artist and the listener and it's a real thrill.

Speaker 2: 5:25

God, that was definitely very windy, isn't it? So I'm going to get in, get in out of the cold, and I'm going to leave you to listen to this. This is a conversation I had a couple of weeks back with Brian Allen Simon, aka Anenon, and this is what happened. You're in LA currently, are you Currently? Yeah, like, I'm in Berlin, so it's evening here and it's morning in LA, and you know this is quite an early time for an interview. Are you a morning person?

Speaker 1: 5:54

No, Not at all. I try to force myself to be someone of a morning person. I get up and usually go to like a yoga class or something and that gets me going. But yeah, I'm definitely. My brain starts to turn on around like 3-4pm. You know, that's where it's like.

Speaker 2: 6:13

Right, and is that where you get most of your work done, the creative work done?

Speaker 1: 6:17

Yeah, I would say. I mean, yeah, I'd say like probably 75% of it happens kind of like late afternoon, maybe all sort of like chisel or sculpt away into the night, but like, at least with this last record, most of it happened during the daytime, yeah like afternoon, afternoon, early evening kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 6:38

Yeah, and do you feel, are you someone that works long hours? Or do you feel like because I know with myself, for example, if I'm writing, I perhaps get a peak flow and I can do quite a lot in a short amount of time, and then if I try to work on after that, it's, you know, it kind of dips a bit, you know, but some people can be really really consistent for long hours. And how are you?

Speaker 1: 7:04

Yeah, I'm kind of the same. I think when I hit that feeling, that's like okay, you're on to something, this is good, I can just keep going. And then and I don't even know what time it is at, you know, at a certain point for sure, that's usually one of the best shit happens, I think, is like in that sort of flow state.

Speaker 2: 7:24

Yeah, it's like you have to sort of, without wanting to sort of sound like macho or anything, there's a sort of a certain amount of breaking through stuff, isn't there like maybe it's breaking through resistance or something, when it.

Speaker 1: 7:37

No, for sure, for sure. I mean, a lot of the work is like getting to the point where you can break through, where you're able to break through so much of the Because at that point it doesn't even feel like work anymore. You're doing the thing that you've told yourself you're meant to do and it's just happening All the other stuff before. That's the work. I think it's like sort of just priming yourself or getting yourself to a place where you can even recognize that the flow is happening. These sorts of things. I have a small wine business that I run here in LA.

Speaker 2: 8:15

I was going to ask you about the wine. Actually, that runs in parallel with the music. Does it?

Speaker 1: 8:22

It takes the same creative boxes for me, but it's also tricky in that I feel like I need to be very clear-headed to make music on the level that I want to be. Wine can get in the way of that, but it does sort of like both things feel like these journeys that you can go on and get very deep into and there's just a lot of similarities.

Speaker 2: 8:51

Yeah, yeah, would you say that there's a kind of creative similarity between wine, or at least how you experience wine, and your music?

Speaker 1: 9:00

Oh, for sure, For sure. I think both things are sort of chasing after the sublime a bit, after this sort of ecstatic state, and I find every I end up going to France a few times a year and visiting wine makers and things like this, and I find these people more interesting than musicians really. I mean, the level of dedication and just how deep some of these people are going into their work is astounding and super inspiring, and they always love me. More than once they know I'm a musician too. I feel like I'm able to enter into their world in an easier way than a lot of other people I know who work in the wine industry, and a lot of wine makers make music also, I've found, too. So there's always this sort of crisscross between the two.

Speaker 2: 9:53

And does it happen in the other way, where you have musicians that are kind of really keen in getting hold of your wine?

Speaker 1: 10:00

Yeah, definitely, definitely. I mean, too many musicians are broke, though, so it's, that's the problem, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 10:08

They're not my best clients. No, no, no, head to the discount store, basically Get the $5.99. But they're definitely interested, for sure.

Speaker 1: 10:17

I've definitely seen more and more musicians start to work in wine too. It's cool and it's kind of like this small you know. I mean underground music has always been. There's this sort of international scene, but there's definitely there's like a sub-scene of the musicians who are in the field too. It's cool.

Speaker 2: 10:38

Yeah, I always quite like that about just the musical aspect of underground music and where you know it's almost like it's like one city spread out over the world. You know in various locations and you know you always seem to know someone in a different city. That's kind of connected to someone else. You know that you didn't realize.

Speaker 1: 10:58

For sure, for sure, yeah, and then it kind of multiplies with the wine world too.

Speaker 2: 11:04

So you got the best of both worlds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you recorded part of Moon's Melt Milk Light, which is your last album in France, right? Just the field recordings, just the field recordings, yeah yeah, I recognize the.

Speaker 1: 11:18

French voices yeah, that was yeah, that specific recording I had done a little solo tenor, set at this kind of auberge, like in place that's in the middle of nowhere in the Auvergne, in like center of France, and I just forgot to turn the zoom off Like I had set it up, and I literally just forgot to turn it off and so I had like fucking like hours of just people talking in the dining room and I was just kind of, I was like I only discovered that like months later when I was kind of going back through the recordings and I heard that I was like, oh, it's so funny and I like because that's actually you can hear me laughing on that so I just felt that it was like a cool little, like little Easter egg or like nugget to put in there.

Speaker 2: 12:09

And I kind of like the way accidents or I don't know if you want to call it an accident or just like serenitious kind of things Things can kind of somehow weave their way into music. You know, I mean the album I got the impression of like, from what I've heard, that the album is based around improvisations, and what was the kind of process for you or what was the sort of goal you had with doing the album in that way?

Speaker 1: 12:37

Yeah, I think it was just like I don't want to say I hit like a complete wall, but I just got to a point where I got kind of tired of like this sort of editing process, because a lot of my previous music I mean, I guess, just to take it back, maybe context, like you know, the early stuff is very electronic and I'd say you know, like 80% of the action is happening inside the box, just moving waveforms around and getting really good at that and fast that it starts to feel like Ableton or whatever. You know, daw is like an instrument unto itself. And then, at the same time, I've, you know, I'm practicing my instruments and I'm trying to become a better player, and so that that starts to kind of like fold over itself, whereas, like by the time, like the 2016 record, petrol 2018 record, tongue, comes out, it's more me playing, but then I'm still like editing, I'm still taking things, I'm still like not completely happy with my performances, but trying to like really put myself out there as a performer as well. More so, in tongue, petrol was more involved with myself, with other players and then taking bits and editing and rearranging and composing, but I just I just felt like I needed. I mean, in the pandemic I had so much time to practice saxophone and bass clarinet I ended up buying a piano at one point and so I would.

Speaker 1: 14:07

That just became like a daily routine and I wanted it wasn't like to prove to myself, but I don't know it was sort of reaction of just like where my work had gone previously and I just wanted to do something that felt fresh for me and like different and like. I wanted it to feel alive and raw and not canned whatsoever. And to a degree I'm still like on some tracks I'm multi-tracking very, very small amount of layers, but it's still like it's not everything is completely live. But this is the only record I've done where there's zero edits on it, so that was something important to me. But I also didn't want it to be so obvious either. I wanted this thing that still felt like my own music, just stripped down and kind of just brought to the core of things and it's not like I don't think I need to keep. I don't want to make another record like this for now.

Speaker 1: 15:07

So yeah, I don't know, it's just a cool moment in time for me. I thought of doing this again. I'm like, oh, terrifying.

Speaker 2: 15:14

What's so terrifying about it?

Speaker 1: 15:18

It's just very vulnerable. I think like to make music like this and you know I think the reception has been cool, like people seem into it, but it's not. Like you know, my other records seem to have done better right off the bat and I don't know. I think that's just something about people's attention spans or how much time they're just willing to give something, because I don't think that this record is like obvious in the way that points of my others are. When I listen back to them, I think you kind of need to dig a little bit deeper into this one to get to what's going on. But I like that. I don't like to cater to anyone's expectations or anything like that.

Speaker 2: 15:57

So yeah, I don't think that's the role of where people's creative interests goes, necessarily, and I also think we were saying about being vulnerable as well, like did you feel like sort of before? There's a sort of element of protection, of being able to kind of almost like protect yourself through using layers and using edits to kind of make sure that the version the world sees of what you do is is altered to the way you know you can finesse it to the way people can see it. You want people to see it.

Speaker 1: 16:29

For sure. Yeah, no doubt. And and it gets kind of like with electronic music. I find it, you know, personally I find it kind of funny because it gets a little blurry at that point where you could be like, oh you know, if I'm, if I'm like improvising acoustic music, but it's within the context of electronic music, whatever, because I like layered it or like added some texture here and there, then I'm sort of like a me, like I can, I, you know it.

Speaker 1: 16:53

Then it's like it's legal to like alter your performance or alter your take and make it sound exactly how you want it to. And I don't, there's nothing wrong with that at all. But just specifically for this record, I just didn't want to do that and I wanted to see that I could still make something cool and interested in engaging. So, yeah, I guess in that way it's like a little bit of a challenge. But yeah, it's like, you know, with the vulnerability thing, and I, you know, when I play live, my best performances always are the ones that feel like I could fail at any moment, like something can go so wrong at any moment. That's what I look for in other people's performances and my own as well, and I kind of wanted to bring that energy a little bit to the studio and to the recording process too.

Speaker 2: 17:47

Yeah, and like I think one of the things I also think is really impressive about it that I like about similar records, like I think of that have taken a similar idea of improvising but then actually having something that has like almost like not necessarily like a concept, but like a kind of a vibe to it. Rather than necessarily sounding like something what happened one night, it has its sort of has a quality of a record. You know, was that something you know like in terms of that? I kind of always relate that to things like atmosphere and with a certain like atmospheric sort of structures that you gave yourself to put the album together or kind of to kind of create a certain kind of mood.

Speaker 1: 18:34

Yeah, I think that's the mood that you're talking about.

Speaker 1: 18:37

I think that's like a result of two things One of just initially sort of like setting up the palette of like only piano, only tenor like I play soprano, sax too, but no soprano, only tenor, and you need some bottom end, so bass, clarinet also and then the field recordings to sort of just like you know, give it an extra layer of atmosphere and melancholy or vibe or like whatever.

Speaker 1: 19:04

And then the other thing is that it didn't it kind of the recording process sort of unfolded in like three separate periods, pretty intense, like tuning the world out, only focusing on music. But then I took breaks because I did sort of like hit a wall. So I was kind of like sitting with a good amount of this material for a few months and, like you know, I went to London about a year ago exactly just to kind of get the hell out of LA for a second, and I'd go on these long walks and I, you know I'd already made about like half the record at that point. So I'm like walking around London and just listening in my headphones, like constantly, and like already sort of like living in the material. So it definitely wasn't, you know, I think cool records can happen in like one or one night or two nights.

Speaker 1: 19:54

And that would be. I mean, I'd be stoked to be able to do that. It's like all right on to the next thing. But you know, I think I was really like living in this material and like it really got into my bloodstream a bit. And so when it came to the point of like needing to finish it, it's I sort of just intuitively knew like where, where the atmosphere needed to go, where the sounds needed to go. Yeah, it's very. Yeah, I mean my work gets more and more intuitive. I don't if I have like too strong of a plan, like it never works out, it's. You just have to set up these modes where you can kind of like or where I can kind of like just follow the lead and then and just feel that I know it's going in the right place.

Speaker 2: 20:36

Yeah, I sometimes feel that I make a lot of notes and I feel like I don't necessarily stick to them, but I find that even just the structure is important for being able to leave it Right right, right, yeah, because then you know exactly, sort of like, what you're reacting.

Speaker 1: 20:53

you know against or yeah, whatever.

Speaker 2: 20:57

Yeah, definitely. And I mean also as well, like I don't, you know, I don't want to say it's an LA album, but you know you're an LA based artist. I don't even know what an LA album is, but what does that association mean to you, if it's like the kind of thing of an LA album?

Speaker 1: 21:14

No, we don't want to go down that.

Speaker 2: 21:18

But you grew up in LA and what was, what was kind of your surroundings like first musical surroundings when you were growing up?

Speaker 1: 21:26

Just, my father would play a lot of records. He was like a record. He's a high five guy. My dad so he didn't play any instruments or anything known in my family, or my uncle was like a guitarist, but that's kind of it. There'd be music on all the time, though, and like loud and high quality, so like always like high quality pressings on high quality gear, and my dad would like trade in his gear like every other year for the new shit, and so it was always like this, like high new, high five setup in my parents' house while I was growing up, and but he, you know, his taste in music wasn't like like experimental or like avant-garde or anything. It was like pretty mainstream shit. But we're talking of, like, you know, 60s, 70s, 80s kind of music. There would be like cool, like some Miles Davis or like Sonny Rollins or the more obvious kind of jazz stuff. Yeah, but there were a lot of Elvis. My dad was like an Elvis guy.

Speaker 2: 22:26

Right yeah, which I guess must have sounded really good through the good equipment as well.

Speaker 1: 22:31

Yeah, it's funny, I have a weird I like, because it was just on all the time. I was like fuck, like I was a kid. I was like fuck, elvis, the stuff is fucking back. I kind of couldn't deal with it. I'm a little traumatized by Elvis, but there was definitely like some good, good like you know there'd be like some like like the William Orbit, like Madonna stuff, like you know, shit like that would be on like loud as fucking to be like damn, this is sick.

Speaker 2: 23:00

That's that to me. That is real proper late 90s, that sort of ray of light. There was the the song from the Austin Powers movie as well. I'm doing the song a real disservice by calling it that Beautiful stranger I think. But yeah, and so what? When? When you started to, was there a point where you kind of felt that music was something that you had your own thing with, like you know, maybe when it started playing instruments, or like an epiphany with just appreciating music?

Speaker 1: 23:29

Yeah, well, it kind of I saw it. I simultaneously started collecting records on my own and DJing, and before I played any instrument or anything. And this is when I'm like 16, 17. And DJing would like I would go and buy like doubles of like hip hop 12 inches and come up with like teens and shit like kind of beat junkies style which would like you know LA, kind of like early hip hop crew inspired by that.

Speaker 1: 23:58

And then I got really heavy into turntableism with some friends who were kind of like there was this kind of like a small scene, you know, here in LA of kids who would like skateboard and then started to DJ when they'd be done skateboarding. We just get high and like just mix records and scratch and shit. But it wasn't like European techno house DJing at all. It was very like California specific kind of kind of vibe. I knew nothing of Europe at this time really.

Speaker 1: 24:29

And but yeah, I got really into scratching and turntableism and like really hardcore about it and was like fuck, like acoustic instruments, fuck the guitar, like all these other guys' stuff Like turntableism is like where it's at, where it's at. And yeah, I got really like really owned that world for a bit and then got really deep into it and then it's I mean, you know, ironically, like naturally come out of that into like then wanting to pick up saxophone, then wanting to pick up piano, because I just got deeper and deeper into digging for like samples to loop or like whatever. Then I was like, well, I just like play it too, like yeah, I'm lazy. So I always kind of had that complex of like sampling, like isn't, it's not enough.

Speaker 1: 25:13

You know, I respect like the hip hop greats and people who are brilliant at sampling, you know, even like nowadays like burial or something like that, like shit is amazing. But for me personally, I always had this like weird complex of like it's not enough to like Even if you're manipulating it and making this brilliant out of it, for me personally it just it got to a point where I was like questioning. I was like, no, no, I need to like. There's something inside of me that needs to come out that isn't coming out through sampling or like even sampling myself.

Speaker 2: 25:45

You know, and you know so, and then you start. What was the first instrument you started?

Speaker 1: 25:54

Lane, I started to toy around with piano and I took I was at UCLA at this point and so I took some like summer kind of like keyboard skills classes, real basic kind of shit, scales and chords and stuff like that and then I ended up I almost dropped out of college and then ended up declaring there's a music history major there and within that, within the music history kind of curriculum, there was two years of theory that you had to take, with the composition and performance majors, and so I took that and that there was, like you know, dictations, keyboard skills, ear training, things like that. I totally got my ass kicked the first year, but then the second it started to feel like, you know, it was coming together a bit and around that time I also I picked up saxophone as well. Yeah, and did you feel like I?

Speaker 2: 26:45

mean because you didn't, whether you had the musical education, it wasn't like the conventional jazz, kind of Not at all. Yeah, did you do you feel like, for someone who sort of music does play around with like certain jazzy elements and stuff, did you feel ever like that kind of ostracized you from a jazz world or was that something? Or alternatively, was that something that was really good to dig into, that you weren't? That's a good question.

Speaker 1: 27:16

Yeah, I think I always felt like a bit of an outsider within the like capital J jazz worlds and I go through periods of my life enjoying that or also being like not, or also not enjoying that.

Speaker 1: 27:31

Most of the time I try not to think about it too much. But, you know, I think I've just come to accept that like, at the end of the day, like I just want to make my own music and as a listener, you know I'm very versed in jazz and you know everything really like a lot of Genres, more so than I would think most jazz people are, you know, and I connect with players who are like that too. Maybe they're better jazz guys than me. I just never, like I never studied jazz, it's always. You know, I know how to improvise just because I taught myself and that Is incredibly important to the music that I make. But I've always felt like a weird, like I thought of verse to like getting too deep into the, into the jazz vocabulary in a way, as if it would like ruin me or something. Yeah, codified you know, and you.

Speaker 1: 28:31

When I listen to a lot of these guys, it's like you know they're all so many like jazz guys are such talented players and like are they're insane, but it starts to sound like each is just a, it's like a variation on the thing. Rather than like them sort of like speaking their own language, them like doing their own thing, they're just coming up with these sort of personal interpretations, personal variations on like this, more like codified language, right. And then you have guys like Sam Gendell or something that have like gone so deep into this, this sphere, into this world, and have come out with their own thing. And those are the types of players like I identify with and you know and Sam and I I'm the only saxophonist that Sam plays with and you know we don't play all the time, but it happens and I find that cool.

Speaker 1: 29:26

But yeah, it's, I don't know. I for me it's like I definitely listen to jazz and contemporary jazz even now, and all the classics and shit like that. But I connect with the guys that just sound, you know, like Miles Davis sounds like himself, john Coltrane sounds like himself, albert Eiler sounds like himself, all these guys. And it's something switched you know when, when jazz went into academia. So in a way I kind of bless that. I didn't really like get pushed into that too early.

Speaker 2: 29:56

Yeah, I do feel that that's just a commonality in a lot of things. Where you have the, you have people that innovate, or maybe they're just innovating through just being able to express themselves in a way that is very connected to themselves, with an amazing way of doing it, and then people take that as like verbatim, as how something should be communicated, and it happens in in, you know, all walks of life. I think you know, in music, like I'm a big fan of like kind of crap rock bands like can, and I know that they had like an incredible kind of stockhouse in classical education. But, like you were saying about your example, I feel like that, like a band that kind of broke through to the other side where suddenly everything became free again. You know, but doesn't happen that often, I think. Quite often people make the choice between, you know, becoming part of the Academy, of whatever that is, or being a little bit on the outside, really Right, right.

Speaker 1: 30:57

I mean, I feel like it even happens with like British electronic music. Now, you know, you have so many things that are just like a variation on like shit Autek or did in the fucking 90s. You know what I mean. And I like that. I like I'm down to like listen to that music. It sounds cool. But sometimes I even have the like, oh, I should make something like that. But then when I sit down and actually try and do it, I'm just like man, this is just fucking derivative. Yeah, so it's. You know, the deeper and deeper I'm getting into this stuff, I'm just like what's, what's the core value, like what's the core thing I'm trying to do here? But yeah, no, it's funny like that. And you have all these like you know, guys, it's not like burial now or like it's just like I don't know, it's interesting yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:43

Yeah, no, it's. And I think also, like you know, we you know round about the time that you were kind of getting into music and all of this, but this is about the time of the low end theory as well. In LA, yeah, yeah, for sure. Did you have an involvement with that or sort of recline? I did, yeah.

Speaker 1: 32:01

I did. Yeah, I actually I interned for Kev, who founded low end theory, years before low end theory even started, so I was already kind of connected through that. And then I had started a label that ran for like five years, right. Basically, the onset of low end theory kind of just coincided with that too, and so, yeah, I ended up playing low end theory like three or four times over the years and kind of sharing bills with like heavy, heavy guys like it was cool and like I don't know there was just an energy to low end. Did you ever attend any?

Speaker 2: 32:43

or just like never, never been to LA. But it was something that I kind of became aware of during late in the time and in retrospect, and mostly through when some of the artists started releasing albums that kind of traveled beyond, beyond theory. So it's more like yeah, yeah, it was very much like oh wow, that sounded really cool. I wish I'd experienced that.

Speaker 1: 33:08

Yeah, there was just you know, low end theory was in this place called the airliner, which is in Lincoln Heights, kind of like East Side, east LA ish, and at the time it was like you know that area is becoming more and more gentrified and stuff now, but like at the time was like like there'd be no other reason. You know, if you're like white and live central or like kind of like, you wouldn't like go there really other than to like get tacos or something during the day. And it was this place, yeah, and this club was just like I don't know, like it was weird to go to this club if it wasn't low end theory happening that night. But if you went during low end theory there was just such a fucking energy there. This hard I haven't really felt since or experienced since. People were just fucking excited to be there and the sound was insane, just heavy, just like rattling your bones, type shit, and to play my own tracks or to like fuck with them and do something, live there really like really fucked with my brain chemistry in a good way.

Speaker 1: 34:10

And the way I hear things, the way I sort of like mix is, I think, is right. Even this acoustic music, it still kind of goes back to that era. I think it was like a huge lesson for a lot of, a lot of guys, like you know a lot of artists, to sort of hear their own music through that system and to feel the reaction or to hear, like your close friends, like tracks that he had sent you like a week ago, like what is this? Yeah, it was definitely like a deep period and very, very creative time for a lot of people. I think, yeah, yeah, I think it's really lucky if you've kind of caught the.

Speaker 2: 34:41

You know you caught, you were part of something or experienced something when it was in that kind of moment, because that you know, the effects go on for years, don't they? And they mutate, yeah, I don't really think about it too much.

Speaker 1: 34:56

But when you ask that question like, oh yeah, wait a second, like that was like a pretty like major, major moment and I, you know, I was only like, I was only like peripherally involved. I wasn't going to say I was like so deep in the thing, but I did have the opportunity to play a few times and like every time I would always like, when I got the signal from Kev, like yeah, we can get you on this night, I would fucking like work. You know, like it's like the dates, like three weeks out of four weeks Out of whatever, I'm like okay, I'm fucking like working on this set. Like right now, this is like I can't think of anything these days that, like you know, would get me that juice to like get in the studio and prep, because you don't want to fuck up, like you didn't, you wanted to, like if you were playing low in theory, like you had to bring it, like there was no other choice.

Speaker 1: 35:40

I feel like those scenarios like exist Less and less not to say that I've gone lazy or anything, but I don't know. It's like a different energy. You know, yeah, yeah, and what would you say?

Speaker 2: 35:53

the energy is there like a kind of a sort of a fellow peer scene group in LA at the moment, or, you know, is it more just international? Now I'd say it's more international a bit. You know, for better or worse, I think there's pretty much, no other choice.

Speaker 1: 36:09

I think it's more international a bit, you know, for better or worse. I think there's pros and cons. Honestly, I'm maybe not the best guy to ask about LA right now. I don't know if I'm just like aging myself out of the thing or like what's going on, or I'm just more stubborn, probably a ladder. Yeah, I definitely look to like the international scene a little bit more for inspiration or to see. You know, I'd say my peers are more in that world or you know, in that way at this point. But there's, you know, there's things you know after low, in theory, there was a place called Human Resources that was definitely like a big hub, just like an art gallery that's like had really good music programming and like just energy. I'm just like it's all about energy for me. I think in anything and I'm trying to think of like places that have, like have this kind of like raw, flowing, freeform energy and everything is just a little like to professionalize these days for me. Right.

Speaker 2: 37:08

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 37:09

Yeah, Talking about just about like local music or whatever so curated and like tight and like. You know that's cool too, but at some, at some point you just want to go to some like raw fucking shit, you know, like.

Speaker 2: 37:25

It's great to have that feeling of just being totally unprepared for something and kind of getting swept up in it, isn't it? Yeah, you need to talk about improvisation and and I sort of think about atmosphere and stuff like that Do you feel like there's a connection between improvisation and atmosphere when you're, when you're making music that you try to kind of grab hold of?

Speaker 1: 37:45

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, definitely. You know I can write and read music, but it's so much slower for me when I do that, and so improvisation is just this way to sort of like you know and it comes back to what I was saying earlier about breaking through the wall and having the skills know that this is something worth, you know, pursuing this small musical fragment small idea just come up with this worth digging into.

Speaker 1: 38:13

And improvisation is this tool where you can kind of just, like you know, keep producing little seeds, little ideas that either kind of hang in the air or they don't. And the ones that hang in the air, that's where you kind of want to start to dive. You know, you want to dive into those feelings, into those sounds. And, yeah, improvisation for me it's just the tool that allows me to do that, to sort of set that process in motion.

Speaker 2: 38:39

Yeah, yeah, and you mentioned right at the beginning about yoga as well. Is there a connection as well between like I don't know, because sometimes fine with like improvisation we talked about flow state as well yeah, and then that you do yoga as well? I mean, I do a little bit of yoga. I have a class on Fridays that I don't always attend but, and I get into meditation.

Speaker 1: 38:59

I go tomorrow, man, I go tomorrow.

Speaker 2: 39:03

Yeah, I've put my place down so I have to go. I kind of feel like there is something you know connects things like yoga and maybe improvisation with flow, state and stuff. Do you feel like there's a sort of blending of those practices For?

Speaker 1: 39:19

sure, 100% God. I really don't want to go public as a yoga guy, but no worries, we can actually we can.

Speaker 2: 39:26

Either I can even edit that or we can just kind of say, yeah, we're not. You know, I don't care actually I don't. I just for anyone that's only ever heard me and not seen one I don't have a top not totally keep it.

Speaker 1: 39:40

I'm just joking.

Speaker 1: 39:43

No, yoga is, you know, it's slowly, because I've been doing it for like seven years or something now at this point and over the past few years has become like I've become a bit more devout, not into the like, not into the culture, but into the.

Speaker 1: 39:58

It's my own practice of the thing. And and, like you said, like the flow state, you know, in a good, it doesn't happen in every yoga class or every time I practice, but you know, when I'm, when I'm in the zone, like you know, yeah, I'm in a deep, you know, flow state. I mean I'm in this thing and I don't even know where I am, but my body's moving, doing all this crazy shit, and that really does the deeper. You get into that, you know, for me, especially with the saxophone, you know, very connected, because the saxophone is both of these things are all about breath, all about breathing, and so I try to bring that energy when I play the horn, because otherwise, what am I doing? Like I try to get into this, this meditative state, and also just the physicality of, you know, being in touch with your body and kind of knowing how your body works and knowing what you're capable of.

Speaker 1: 40:56

And the older and older I get like, the more that's important to like being able to play an instrument instrument well, such as the saxophone, which is such a physical thing to play like really have to put your whole body into the thing. There's no. Saxophone is very binary. Like a guitar, you can kind of like whatever fuck around with piano to, but saxophone is like it's you're either on or you're off. There's no fucking in between and that's like that could be daunting sometimes. And so I think like having a sort of regular physical yoga practice, spiritual yoga practice, like it helps for sure. And yeah, I think I should mention this saxophonist passed away I forget, maybe early 2010s David S Ware.

Speaker 2: 41:44

Right, I'm on the wire.

Speaker 1: 41:46

I was a New York guy. Post Coltrane era kind of came into prominence like the 80s I'd say, but kept going Brilliant saxophone player, but yeah he's, he was sort of like a vocal about very being very deep into meditation and spirituality and over the past few years I've I always enjoyed his music, but then, you know, kind of coinciding with my own like yoga practice and stuff like that, and I'm watching these things where he would talk about not just on YouTube or whatever, like he would talk about meditation and spirituality and like how connected it is to playing the saxophone or playing just music period. And yeah, I found that quite inspiring and I went into Moons Melt Milk Light with that pretty fresh in me of being like, ok, I just want to get into this, this deep zone and make music like this.

Speaker 2: 42:39

Yeah, OK, so that's me, paul Hanford, talking with Brian Alan Simon, aka Anenon. We had that conversation January, the 11th 2020, for. Thank you so much, brian, for talking with me there, and thank you so much, adam at Tonal Union for for bringing Brian's work amazing work to my attention. Yes, the album Moons Melt Milk Light is out now on Tonal Union. Yes, and yeah, I love to have that conversation about the idea of, like improvisation and the freedom with it, and I did find like a kind of maybe there is another connection point between improvisation and natural wine, this kind of idea of of things straight from the earth or straight from the soul or something like that. Maybe I'm just wittering on in the cold now, but anyway, yes, lost and Sound is sponsored by Audio Technica, a global but still family run company that make headphones, turntables, cartridges, microphones.

Speaker 2: 43:41

They're making the headphones I'm speaking to you right now on. They make studio quality, affordable products because they believe that high quality audio should be accessible to all. So head on over to AudioTechnicacom to check out all of their range of stuff. My book Coming to Berlin is available in all good bookshops or via Velocity Press, the publisher website. Fucking hell, it's windy, isn't it? I'm just going to get in, tom Giddens did the music hyperlink as usual. Take care, chat to you soon. Thank you.