Alex Paterson

Step into the ambient world of trailblazer Dr. Alex Paterson of The Orb, sharing his captivating story on Lost in Sound. Our journey with Alex takes us from the inception of ambient house to his acoustic adventures with the Sedibus project, all while uncovering the artistic vigor that has fueled his five-decade-long voyage through the music industry. We relish the nostalgia of chart-topping victories, a totally surreal chess-themed performance on Top of the Pops, and delve into the enduring resonance of "Little Fluffy Clouds."

With laughter and earnest reflection, Alex recalls the exuberance of the acid house scene, his time as a roadie for Killing Joke, and the antics of The KLF, painting a vibrant picture of the friendships and chaos that shaped an era. This episode isn't just a look back at the past; it's a testament to music's timeless journey and the undying passion that drives an artist like Alex, who eschews retirement and zeitgeist for the relentless pursuit of creation.

Finally, through candid anecdotes and personal memories, Alex provides insight into the lasting influence of late artists, muses humorously about secret islands for escaping fame, and shares how non-traditional musicians like himself have brought new sounds to the forefront. From wild rave stories to the enduring friendships forged in the heat of the acid house scene's heyday, this episode is an affectionate homage to the rhythms that keep legends like Dr. Alex Patterson crafting the soundtrack of our lives.

The second Sedibus album ‘SETI’ out now on Orbscure Recordings, check it out here. 

Presented and produced by Paul Hanford 

Paul Hanford on Instagram

Lost and Sound is proudly sponsored by Audio-Technica

Paul’s debut book, Coming To Berlin: Global Journeys Into An Electronic Music And Club Culture Capital is out now on Velocity Press. Click here to find out more. 

Subscribe to the Lost and Sound Substack for fresh updates and writing.

Lost and Sound title music by Thomas Giddins

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Lost in Sound is sponsored by Audio Technica. Audio Technica are a global but still family run company that make headphones, turntables, cartridges, microphones, studio quality yet affordable products, because they believe that high quality audio should be accessible to all. So, wherever you are in the world, head on over to AudioTechnicacom to check out all of their range of stuff. Hello and welcome to episode 121 of Lost in Sound, back after a little break. I'm Paul Hampford, I'm your host, I'm an author, a broadcaster and a lecturer, and this is the show where, each episode, I have conversations with the musical innovators, the outsiders, the mavericks, the artists that do their own unique thing, and we talk about music, creativity, life and the things that inspire us to make the things that we make. Previous guests on the show have included Peaches, suzanne Chiani, Jim O'Rourke, chilly Gonzalez, cosy, fanny Tutti, jean-michel Jarre, mickey Blanco and Thurston Moore, and today you're going to hear a chat I had with a real maverick outside the Ambient House, original Dr Alex Patterson. Meanwhile, my book Coming to Berlin is still available in all good bookshops or via the publisher's website, velocity Press. So, yeah, I'm speaking to you from a cold, but almost spring, like Berlin, and I had a little break, so it's great to be back. Thanks for tuning in, and today you're going to hear a conversation I had several weeks back with Alex Patterson, sometimes known as Dr Alex Patterson, co-founder and mainstay of the legendary group the Orb and now the project Cedibus, which is the reason we had this chat initially, you're about to hear the Orb.

Speaker 1: 2:39

So basically, back in the late 80s and into the 90s, the Orb really took ambient music out of the realms of the academic and into the club. They helped define chill out or ambient house, whatever you want to call it. Their two early 90s key albums, adventures Beyond the Underworld and UF Orb, explored the idea of club music made largely without beats, something that has become a whole genre. But over the next 30 years we're so familiar with now. The latter album, uf Orb, reached number one on the album chart in the UK. But they weren't just ambient, they were surreal and fun too. In 1992, for example, they took a 39 minute single into the UK top 10. This was called the Blue Room. It was the longest single to ever appear in the UK charts. They then appeared on top of the pops for it, where they just sat down and played chess. Perhaps the most famous track is Little Fluffy Clouds which has become an evergreen anthem.

Speaker 1: 3:43

Alex's musical background extends further back Childhood friends with the music producer Youth. Youth would go on to join the post-punk band Killing Joke, which Alex became a roadie for. Alex would go on and work as a DJ and for the ambient music label EG before, in 1990, the KLF album Chill Out came out. This album, chill Out by the KLF, is credited with inventing ambient house and there's a lot of contention which I don't really want to get into but Alex does talk about in the interview about who played what on the album. Alex had a role on this album and I'll leave it for him to say his side of what went on. What went on with that. For legal reasons and also because I obviously don't know because I wasn't there, I'm not going to comment myself. The UF Orb was the band's commercial and critical peak in 1992.

Speaker 1: 4:37

Alex has now released 17 studio albums under the orb Monika, culminating in last year's Prism album. His work might have fallen out of the hip zeitgeist but that's not to take away from, on one hand, the pioneering work that he did, that he's done Throughout the orb. There would have been no ambient clubbing as we know it Also not to take away from his commitment to an energy vibe, a sound which he maintains to this day. This carries on to what we spoke about in the interview, because him and one of his orb compatriots, andy Faulkner, have just released their second album under the name Cedibus. The album is called Seti. It's an ambient record with a kind of acoustic, very warm feel, described in the press release as ambient, unplugged.

Speaker 1: 5:34

Like I said just then, it's very warm and that's much like I found the conversation with Alex to be. So this is what happened when I, paul Hamford from Lost and Sound, had a conversation with Dr Alex Patterson Hi, alex, how are you doing? You alright? I'm alright, paul. Thank you very much. Thanks so much for speaking with me today. I started listening to the orb when I was about 16 or 17 with the blue room, and so it's a real pleasure for you to give me time today. So thank you so much. So it's been like a well over a 30 year journey now, from when the orb formed to the new Cedibus album. What would you say was one of the biggest things that have been consistent in the work that you do?

Speaker 2: 6:26

Me. I think really would be the most consistent thing on the thread. That keeps it all together.

Speaker 1: 6:33

Yeah, yeah, and why do you think it's sort of the sound has been the way it is, like what is there within you that kind of really relates to? It's kind of quite a kind of consistent sound through your music.

Speaker 2: 6:49

Well, yeah, it's one of those things that you can't put a finger on it, because you're on it, you're that finger. I have to compliment you on saying those things, because is it boring over 30 years? I don't think so, because what we've been doing for the last 30 years is something that is consistently weird and it's not your bog standard. We're doing a commercial record and we're going to blow ourselves out in four years. Well, it has already lasted a lifetime, that's for sure, because I know what children do when they're born, when I started doing all this shit, and as for the grandchildren, it's a lifetime achievement to be recognised and have what you say is important, because it means that I've not really lost my roots.

Speaker 1: 7:55

Yeah, I think that's a really nice way of putting it. Yeah, and like can you remember a time when your children first heard your music, and was it something that you went to play to them or that they just found?

Speaker 2: 8:08

They found them in different ways. It's a bit like my football team. I don't bring it down, my kids throw it. I don't make them become a football fan, I don't, and the same thing I did with you. The funniest thing with my daughter was her middle name. There's something very much to do if you know little fluffy clouds. It's got something very, very familiar to it and her teacher pointed that out to her. Oh wow, yeah, really what? And the word Arizona? That's basically it. That was the connection.

Speaker 1: 8:57

Yeah, I love that. When you said Arizona, I kind of heard that noise that kind of had just after it, so your teacher would obviously know who you were and the music that you had made.

Speaker 2: 9:13

Well, the sounds of things, just by her, by her name. Yeah, she was a partisan.

Speaker 1: 9:19

She's a partisan as well. Yeah, yeah, you're a lifelong Battersea liver. Are you liver? That sounds like a weird word.

Speaker 2: 9:28

I'm a river dweller. Yeah, river dweller.

Speaker 1: 9:33

I like the. I mean I think particularly in the early 90s with like UF4 but Adventures Beyond the Ultra World. It had such a big effect on pickstark and the idea that ambient music wasn't just this kind of thing. That was like Eric Satie and you know art music it took into club culture.

Speaker 2: 9:55

Yeah totally. I mean, this is what I set out to achieve in the first place Because of my opinion was I was brought up in clubs as a roadie and then I ended up being an A&R scout for a really kind of renowned ambient label called EG Records. I was always being told I couldn't do that. It's the wrong, you can't dance music on this label because we're not a dance label. But I did. I managed to get EG's only one and only top 40 track on BG.

Speaker 2: 10:38

Moving by Marathon, which I'm extremely proud about because that brought Thomas Feldman together with myself and introduced me to Marathon Oswald, who were both big players in the dance world. They're both German and it brought my love of German things all things German Not to a full circle. That only started another cycle and a cycle with the killing joke recording in Berlin in 84. And then in 89, I met Thomas, ended up going to a club with Thomas and some electric and Marathon.

Speaker 2: 11:26

And a load of journalists, and we ended up spending the weekend watching the wall come down.

Speaker 1: 11:33

I heard that you were DJing on the night. The wall came down right. Yeah, and a club called UFO. Yes, I've heard a lot of stories about that. That was Dimitri Heckelman's first club, wasn't it? What was the atmosphere like at the time? Because that was the summer of love era.

Speaker 2: 11:54

It wasn't the summer of love in Berlin, but the summer of love became the whole. That happened in 1990, 1991, when they did have the Love Parade kicked off where they had similar to what I would call Battersea. But the Easter Parade at Battersea used to be like you have loads of floats and loads of people dancing about watching the floats, but these floats were just full of DJs playing house music and that was a beautiful thing. And that happened after 1989, which is in November 1989, the wall came down and to the very last the Russians weren't liking the Germans. But if that were to by midnight you could walk through Berlin, through the wall, because they'd been pulled down. So you could make your way across Berlin into East Berlin. Even then they had checkpoints to see where you came from East Germans, and anyone with a West German passport was given a really hard time just to go over into East German East Berlin Even that night.

Speaker 2: 13:11

Thomas is Swiss. He had no problem going through. His girlfriend had anger at the time. They had to hold her up and they made her stay there for another 15 minutes Just checking her papers. Please, yeah, because myself you can come in. You're British, but if you're German you have to wait a little while, because we still don't like you.

Speaker 1: 13:35

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 13:37

That's the coldness of it all. The warmth was just one of those magical moments where I really wish I spoke German then that night, because the singing was incredible. There was one bloke with an acute guitar sitting on top of the Berlin Wall singing along. Everyone was singing along with him, but behind the wall you can hear a crowd of people you've never met before who were all singing the same song and they were coming closer and closer and then the walls started rumbling and it came down. They pushed it down from the east side.

Speaker 1: 14:18

Yeah, and of the idea that the music's getting louder, with the people singing coming up to the wall.

Speaker 2: 14:24

Yeah, it was just one of those moments where, yeah, there was fireworks, there was all kinds of things going on and it went on forever, and I know very much so that it was one of those moments that will. It's a bit like playing table tennis with the whalers in either records one afternoon in the summer of 79. Those things you just, luckily, were there at that moment.

Speaker 1: 14:57

Yeah, yeah, and if you cut it, it's from what you're saying about whalers as well. Do you feel like you've kept this sense of I don't want to say fanboy, but like appreciation for the world around you?

Speaker 2: 15:14

Well, it's difficult because there's a lot of things in life that make you go down and make you forget about things and you just get drawn into a world of bills, problems. How am I going to survive? And I've just been blessed where the last couple of years it's been difficult because I have a stroke and a heart attack, which is the best of the sort of things that you can deal with in life. But through the music and through the love of everyone that knows what I've done, I've had a lot of help for want of a better word Knowing that I can't do things full time anymore because it probably killed me. So to everything part time, half space, half speed. Still do music.

Speaker 2: 16:10

And people will appreciate in the new stuff that I'm doing with Michael just as much as the new stuff I'm doing with Mr Faulkner and Michael and Andy Faulkner we're going to do a new album together out of Syllabus, but we're also with Andy we're talking about doing a third Syllabus album. But it's almost it's like taking care, it's like making candy and giving it to your children. It's so beautiful to do and it's rewarding, not just in a tasty way but in a soundly way. The way it sounds is important, obviously with music, so that was just a silly analogy.

Speaker 1: 16:59

No, I love a good analogy like that, definitely. It's just because I mean the Syllabus album, particularly the second one, it does have this kind of real warmth to it. Did you feel like you know, saying it was kind of this kind of really warm experience for you and a lot of love for that, Did you feel that the music kind of gave you something, after what you've been through, to kind of go and make that music?

Speaker 2: 17:25

Andy, it was like we missed each other for 30 years and it was like a very big, big circle of it was on the outs. It was a bit like being in Pluto and Neptune, with myself being on Earth. He's now back on the moon. He's much closer, all bit, and it's almost like he's never really been away. Having the handballed and he's got like short hair. Yeah, yeah, we've seen. I mean, I suppose, yes, they have to be talking obviously quite regularly, because we've both been blown away by the. What press we've been getting has been really, really good, and thank you for wanting to take this on out to listen to us.

Speaker 1: 18:12

Just as much Thank you for making the music. Yeah, it's yeah, but that's what we're here for.

Speaker 2: 18:21

That is my vocation in life is to make music for people.

Speaker 1: 18:24

Yeah, Well, that's what is it for as well, for kind of receiving it. I mean, at the time you started the orb and like this idea of doing ambient music in a club context or kind of like club music without beats, Did you kind of receive any kickback from people that were like what the fuck's that? You know you can't have club music without beats.

Speaker 2: 18:52

Yeah, mainly people like Kaleft, to be honest. Right, but they wanted to. They wanted to especially cheer out album, which 80% of that is me anyway, but they never yeah we'll give you a credit.

Speaker 2: 19:09

We'll give you a credit, but anyway, I'm glad they didn't, because it looks like there was. It was them that did it, so it must be someone else. But they didn't have the balls to say actually, that was Alex, by the way. And I'm now on talking the truth, because I've sat down and talked to them about this great length, that shit, the shit I have and I could build, I would have tuned the sun and much better than that could build, but other than that, I like the oldest thing that was done in there. But it basically sat me in front of the computer in a turntable and mixed and mixed and mixed and mixed for like six hours solidly and they had an album. It was only going to be 40 minutes long.

Speaker 1: 19:57

So it was a live album, basically.

Speaker 2: 20:01

Most of it, yeah, but also does this be the first scenario? And that's what they kind of wanted to be that? But more than that, more than that, they wanted to be the first to destroy themselves. So I know Jimmy doesn't like the idea that they deleted all his material. Where are they going to make any money from? You know, if you delete it, you're not going to think yourself. Why don't you just go shoot yourself in both feet?

Speaker 1: 20:36

Yeah, it's kind of like the idea of the sort of suffering artist in a way, isn't it? Do you think?

Speaker 2: 20:42

Well, it is the art thing and it's been. There's a reason why I left the orb. There's a reason why KLF stopped working and the orb carried on working, and you've seen the fruits of our endeavors 35 years later. I used to question myself am I any good? Jimmy's left the band. Am I any good? Chris Weston left the band. Am I any good? I've asked if not to do any work with me. Am I any good? I've been questioning myself all the time.

Speaker 2: 21:19

But the answer is I've done all this myself with other people, not necessarily pop stars or people that people have heard of before. And that's the beauty of what I do with the orb in that sense is that I keep the essence as an essence. I don't go off on another kind of circle of now we're pop stars when we did a track with Robbie Williams even society is broken this year yet but you would never think he was a nice boy. You'd think he was just loud and cocky, which he is, but he's also very, very sweet and kind of really cut for what I was wearing or what clothes, and why can't I wear them clothes? I don't know, being a maid. In that sense it's a shame we didn't do anything more. But at the same point we did enough because we got invited on to do a.

Speaker 2: 22:24

He got invited onto an album to do cover versions of boy bands. With boy bands doing their cover versions and some of our other, he said, well, let the alt join in with me, we could do a cover version of a BG song, what you will do that. I've known that there have been some seven inches on Studio One from Jamaica. They've done their own versions of I started a joke, really heavy dub chins. There's a beginning. Just get interesting over the top of that. And can you sing like Johnny Rotten? Yeah, can you sing to me? Sing like, because he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a crew know, but he's also I forgot the word, I forgot the word. I forgot the word. Don't worry, but he can pick up on something and it would sound exactly the same. So he can sound like Johnny Rotten. Then he can sound like this I should pick up. Well, he released very but more Prince Farad. So we had him doing reggae and punk vocals over the top of this BG song.

Speaker 1: 23:37

Which BG song was it? By the way, I started a joke.

Speaker 2: 23:41

Right, it wasn't a killing joke either.

Speaker 1: 23:44

Yeah, Well, because, with the killing joke as well, because you met you originally when you were both a school together. Was it like a friendship straight away, or, you know, you just sort of tolerating each other.

Speaker 2: 23:59

I was two years ahead of him at school. I kind of we were in the school for miss bank kids and I was aware of brilliant and weird shit going on prior to him coming to school when I discovered that I was living in Battersea. It comes from Wandsworth, I come from Battersea. It's not a million miles from each other. So I stuck him under my wing and said look, I would make sure you don't get bullied and choose my word. And then the friendship became more of a friendship. The last year I was there, so hanging out at his house with his mum and he could never get his. No one could ever get their heads around my mum. Bless her. She was, yeah, she was definitely one off.

Speaker 1: 24:56

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 24:57

What kind of?

Speaker 1: 24:58

way.

Speaker 2: 24:59

What kind of way? If you didn't like you, you'd know about it. Yeah, she's known for not attacking friends. But one of my mates said oh, this food's a bit naff in it. And she just stuck his face in the food in terms of fuck off, and that's what I've got to do for and that's kind of like every chef's dream, isn't it?

Speaker 1: 25:24

Yeah?

Speaker 2: 25:26

What.

Speaker 1: 25:32

You're bullshit.

Speaker 2: 25:34

I don't think so, but one of those two things I did in life when I thought I don't know if I want to do music anymore. So I became a chef. For what? But that's too much like hard work For so little appreciation of what you do when you make food. Yeah, that's nice. We've got some more.

Speaker 1: 25:55

Yeah, that's it, I appreciate it. And the hours as well, the hours for being a chef. There's that, yeah.

Speaker 2: 26:05

You've got to be somewhere, like sort of a big chef to make proper money as well, Whereas I suppose you have to be a good musician or a good, in a way a good band to make money as well. But that's not really the case these days.

Speaker 1: 26:23

Was there a point where you felt like, with you and youth, that music was becoming quite a big thing in your life? So could you remember like a point where I heard you were kind of getting quite into kind of field recordings and tape recordings at quite a young age and was that can you remember like a point where this started to really happen?

Speaker 2: 26:41

Well, it all happened to an older brother who was basically a Bob Dylan plant and it also was in a band called Rudi Jajkowski and he stuck me in the back of a van and went to watch them play a decent South London gigs. When I was little and that kind of opened my eyes to music. And we're sitting at home one day watching Top of the Pops and Blue Minkwee on TV and by the side laughing. All the musicians have swapped what they're doing. The drummers are now the singer, the bass players, the guitarists, etc. But because they're miming they can do whatever they want. What's miming? And there it was. So when it came to my time to do Top of the Pops, I said yes, yeah, I remember watching that.

Speaker 2: 27:40

And the BBC hated us that day because it was like the men seething how can somebody but you're miming, yeah, but mine no. I like chess. Chess is okay, we'll play chess in spacesuits. Is that enough for you? And there's wacky enough for anyone to think, well, that's a great idea. But the BBC didn't like it. They loved it. They thought it was yeah, it was a good idea, and the whole thing was they're talking about it now.

Speaker 1: 28:18

Yeah, yeah, I mean definitely, I really distinct memory of watching that and also it sort of fitted the music to me. It was like this sort of I always sort of felt that there was this kind of element with your music and also just generally like this kind of idea that there's a sort of prank side to psychedelia, you know like the bit of a cheeky side. You know when do you think that comes from with you, that sort of cheeky nature?

Speaker 2: 28:46

Just a cheeky day. It's just part of my persona, so to speak, that way. It's just. I'd like to be a bit more cheeky, but there you go. The older you get, the more set in your ways you become. Yeah, unfortunately, and there was always there's a really good comment by journalists back in that era the way, the younger you become, so different, totally different by context. You're brilliant. You can't kiss the sky with your tongue in your cheek. I thought it was actually quite a good comment. To be honest, I've not remembered it.

Speaker 1: 29:29

Well, it worked in the memory way.

Speaker 2: 29:32

Yeah, that was in the NME or something like that in 1993.

Speaker 1: 29:38

Do you think you were trying to reach the sky, though, or do you feel like that wasn't really on the agenda?

Speaker 2: 29:45

What we were trying to do is we were trying to do something that was different and that was to make people's attention, since they were not so much like it. It was like this philosophy of the pistols without the anchivation of a punk band. I grew up as a little punk locker as well. When I was 17,. Punk had just really started establishing, rearing its ugly head in 77. I was talking to my doctor the other day. I said yeah, you've got amazing hair. It's like blue spiky. I used to be an original punk locker. She says what year? It's 77. She goes out of the year I was born.

Speaker 2: 30:32

Yeah, made me feel really old again, but I'm getting used to that. That feels like a big cycle. But when you're in the cycle, when you're younger, you don't realise that you're part of that cycle. You just think you're invincible, which is fair enough, because I was exactly the same. Well, that's a sample from the first time. I wish I was listening to this music when I was 20 years old. But we got rid of the 28 and the 820, it just knocked the 8 off. No one ever noticed that, but I always thought it was a little snigger and that was like from another Sex Pistols record Some product which is an album of their interviews. So it's just spoken word, so it's ripe. If that's not ripe for sampling, I don't know what isn't.

Speaker 1: 31:27

And with that kind of approach of sampling. You said in the past that you're like a non-musician in a classic sense and you've worked with people like, as well as Robbie Williams, people like Lee Scratch-Perry and Dave Gilmore. What do you think in those situations that, as a traditional non-musician, you bring to the table but say real DJ skills, dj skills, right.

Speaker 2: 31:54

Something that's been overlooked by musicians for a long time. It's only recently, since the weather actually passed away, that people suddenly realised actually he was a brilliant artist, producer, remixer, and that all comes about from being a really good, fucking amazing DJ. Yeah, and that's Mr Wendrell, I'm talking about Blessing. Yeah, it was about four years ago, on Saturday he died. It was yeah, it's just.

Speaker 1: 32:24

That felt like the beginning of, because that was just before the pandemic and that wasn't it.

Speaker 2: 32:29

He knew what was going on. Yeah, but we just got away before it all kicked off. A bit like Bowie with Brexit and Trump as well yeah, Just getting out on the fray and or maybe they remember some secret island on the other side of the world that we don't know about.

Speaker 1: 32:44

Well, I hope so, I hope so, well, yeah, Every possibility.

Speaker 2: 32:48

Shit like that happens. We don't monitor everything in this big, big white ocean of a world-relieved one.

Speaker 1: 32:55

It doesn't make it happen.

Speaker 2: 32:57

We can make it out if you want as well, you prove he isn't.

Speaker 1: 33:01

And I guess if you're kind of like a really rich, successful person, you've got more resources to make something like that happen as well. There's many islands to go to, isn't there? Totally, maybe they've each got their own little island. You know, like they're within a kind of like a common, of what the word is where you have a lot of little islands connected together.

Speaker 2: 33:20

But yeah, it's a word that I couldn't say, but I know exactly what it is.

Speaker 1: 33:25

Yeah, it's a language of the yeah, like Opeggiator, but it's not that yeah.

Speaker 2: 33:31

That's a sound, yeah.

Speaker 1: 33:32

That is yeah. And do you like what? Do you think it is that sort of DJs or the kind of DJ mentality brings to the table?

Speaker 2: 33:46

Either the sun, metallica or with Metallica, screamy Delica, not Metallica, streamy Delica, that's things like that brings that kind of shit to the table and so, unless you're creating the DJs involved in, there was three albums in 1991 that changed the world Blue Lines, screamy Delica and and the one I did, the first all-bevel.

Speaker 1: 34:19

You're involved with two of those.

Speaker 2: 34:21

Accidentally. Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, but I would have really loved to. I mean, the things with Blue Lines is. It just takes reggae to a different level. That's what was so brilliant about that. It became a modern classic within the reggae world and, intertwined with hip-hop, it became something that many people in the household were listening to. But outside of the household there's millions of people that listen to that, and so that fused the whole thing together. We did it with the indie world. There was lots of indie kids that didn't understand dance music, but the first album introduced a lot of people, a lot of kids to dance music through, who would not necessarily just sat there and wiggled their fingers and gone. You all right there. That's what I'd just get. You can dance with two broken feet. It doesn't take that much to do a little dance with two normal feet.

Speaker 1: 35:30

Well, I know that I dance like someone with two broken feet.

Speaker 2: 35:34

Two neck feet.

Speaker 1: 35:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 35:36

That's okay, it doesn't matter, it's just a rhythm that goes through your body.

Speaker 1: 35:45

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 35:46

And if that white man can't dance or that can't play basketball, can't you just dance like that? I used to play basketball from my county. I was so proud of myself for being a basketball player Way ahead of playing football. I love basketball and it gave me a sense of rhythm. On the other level, I played chess all the time and all the posh kids who played chess couldn't understand how I could play chess and whip their asses and take the pit out of them at the same time.

Speaker 1: 36:15

Yeah, yeah, there is something of like the kind of like the rich kids sort of late night drink a cognac to chess, isn't there?

Speaker 2: 36:26

Yeah, but now they use anal ropes, so watch out LAUGHTER.

Speaker 1: 36:35

I'll be warned, see LAUGHTER.

Speaker 2: 36:37

And there's something very it's a bit like what I'm talking about with EEG and the ambient side of the world. We brought the working man's ideas into an ambient world, as opposed to rich kids thinking this is our music. Darling and Pavenham Cappio-Cutcher that was also Mr Weatherall's favourite tunes. There's a I've got it in the head. I can't remember it's called, but it's a stunning tune and it's an Irish jig. Basically they're all done. I've got it on harmonium flutes, strings not a guitar bass, drums, all done as a real musicians do music, but in a rhythm that's like dance. It could be another one of those things. I can't remember the name of the band, the track now. Yep, it was one of those. Yeah, because I've seen people dancing in the most weirdest way. They've listened to that tune, but it does work. And Ken, it was one of the band's favourite tunes and he played it out.

Speaker 1: 38:00

Yeah, I'm sure that's probably going to come to you, probably in about two nights' time.

Speaker 2: 38:06

You're not wrong, just need to come on with the radio, come on with the headphones.

Speaker 1: 38:12

Anyway, that's it there, and I'm sure I definitely know Andy and the Riffle fans will be listening to the podcast and I'm sure some of them will be going. Oh yeah, I know exactly what it is.

Speaker 2: 38:29

Yeah, it's become like a demigod, mr Weatherall, which is an absolutely fair play. When we first started doing literally from the first in Huge Ever Growing and he was the first person under the guise of Aunty Aubrey who charted an alt tune in the NMA back in 1989. Oh wow, what tune was that? Huge Ever Growing, pulse 30 Print, or were they just called it Love and you? Because it was too much to put in them and it was number two, and number one was a Happy Monday's record he just happened to have remixed. Blessed him. He lived upstairs, I lived downstairs in Block of Lance and we met each other and that's how you met.

Speaker 2: 39:20

Yeah, well, what do you do? I'm in a bank, all deal. What do you do? My name's Andy Weatherall and I work. I DJ in the back room of this club called Shum what you work at Shum. Fuck that shit, man. We do the back room at Spectrum and it's just with bonkers, to be honest. It was just it's like we were meant to meet.

Speaker 1: 39:47

Yeah, and that era as well. Like I mean, did you get very involved with, like, acid House?

Speaker 2: 39:57

I think so. I think so definitely did. Yeah, because Summer of 1988 was it was all about KLF and I was the other DJ. I was their DJ, along with Tony Thorpe, and we would do raves, quite literally. There was one where this is where we did KLF got paid £1,000, so they asked for it to be paid in pound notes. Yeah, not coins notes. And the only place they had notes at the time was Scotland. So they got a thousand Scottish pound notes sent down for the gig we're playing on a scale up. They're at the top. Everything's not plugged in, it's all played. Pretending to play. They got sex of money. How do you attract an audience? Throw the money at them. So they've sucked around all this money out. Our other oldies, who remain anonymous, saw loads of money coming down from the top of the hell of Skilter and he's running around pushing loads of pound coins, a pound notes, in his pocket. What are you doing? Give it. And we made him give it all back. It was blessings. You're just giving it away. I'm having it.

Speaker 2: 41:23

Yeah, but let him come over. At least they don't even know it's there yet.

Speaker 1: 41:29

It's good to have all the opportunists about, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 41:32

Well, especially when it's your own crew as well. What are you giving it away? I can see your logic, but you have to give that up.

Speaker 1: 41:44

I've read some people have written some theories somewhere that it's always the road crew who are the most well read people. On a tour like dispelling this kind of myth? The classic theory, road crew but the road crew is always the ones with books as well. Would you back that up?

Speaker 2: 42:05

I had to because I was a roadie. I did a lot of reading on the road and I was one of the only roadies that I know that couldn't actually drive. A lot of people didn't get their heads around that one either. I got sacked by EG in 1982, 1982. So we're going to get some real roadies in. We're going to do your job.

Speaker 2: 42:36

Three months later they're pleading with me to come back and take my job back because none of these roadies that they got could handle the band. I'm kidding Joe, because they are notoriously bad, dysfunctional log who four individuals could never agree on anything. And if you're working for a band that can't agree on anything, it's like a living hell unless you're used to it. So I got the job back, but the difference was when they sat me. I was probably like, as I say, you get a mattress for a tour. Then I was like, well, how much were you paying those roadies in? So I was suddenly something on 210 pound a day. I have something like that, and I'll carry on reading as well.

Speaker 1: 43:32

Excellent, excellent. We have a mattress to read on now as well. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2: 43:37

Well more than a mattress, a base, Even a bed base to go with an mattress.

Speaker 1: 43:43

And what do you think you were able to do? That calmed Gling joke down that other people hadn't been able to do?

Speaker 2: 43:50

Not be sensitive about their actions, right, yeah, not take it personally. And if they're going to give you some shit, give some shit back because they deserve it. Yeah, and they would agree with me even now. Bless them, yeah, yeah, I mean I'm still really really good friends with youth and that. That that Kine joke was just a little period in our life, yeah, not what we knew each other from where we're still together.

Speaker 1: 44:18

Hmm, his mama, my mama best friends for a while, hmm, Do you ever sort of like, when you talk to him, go kind of it's been a funny life so far, hasn't it? You know all of these kind of adventures and different things, exactly, but yeah for sure.

Speaker 2: 44:35

Yeah, and I think last week I probably see him next week. Hmm, we're not close, close, but we're close enough, close enough and you know he's, I know how heavy he is and I don't want to pick him up. He's a bit too heavy these days. I was a little like I had a bit too much Throw it on his shoulder. I call good things, you know.

Speaker 1: 44:56

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 44:58

And he's, he's, he's actually such. He's a very wonderful human being. He's very warm and he's got some great musical ideas constantly. He doesn't show up with that. He's a record company. He makes record labels. I just make records. It's a difference.

Speaker 1: 45:17

Hmm, do you think I'll ever be a time when you stop making records, or do you do you feel like you'll, it's always going to be something you do?

Speaker 2: 45:24

when I, when I've left this small call Hmm, there's no reason why I should stop. It's not. This isn't retiring. Hmm, it's a a job. When you retire is something, is when you don't like something and you retire from it.

Speaker 1: 45:39

Yeah, it's like, oh my God, I've got to this age, I can finally quit yeah.

Speaker 2: 45:44

And not, not, not with music, not with music. Hmm, when I saw Rodilio's playing last summer in up in East End Summer, it's nearly 90 years old but you can see in his eyes he's still got that sparkle, he's still got that. Oh, did he? He played on a piano for 20 minutes and got cheered out of the building. Hmm, but people realise that he's fragile now he's not, yeah, 40 years old, is going to sit there and do a gig for four, four hours or something. Hmm, and he managed to custom the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the river. Anyway. So there's a bank, I said Jack called the river that he did with, with Eno as cluster, and he did a version of that live, just the piano. He did his singing and then he's dropped and then tried to sing the notes and he brought everyone to tears. Wow, it was so beautiful.

Speaker 1: 46:47

Hmm, he's still got it. Yeah, I think it's just that there's this idea that rock and roll had to be done by young people. For a while it wasn't that which is media, media media, media. I think it just initially sold Levi's, I guess oh that's that as well. Yeah, alex, that was it, thank you, thank you so much for talking with us, oh wow.

Speaker 1: 47:13

That's actually a pleasure. So that's Alex Patterson in conversation with me, paul Hanford for Lost and Sound, and we had that chat on the 19th of February 2024. Thank you so much, alex, for sharing your thoughts and your time with me there. The Sederbus the second Sederbus album, citi, is out now on Orb skewer recordings. Yeah, really enjoyed that chat. Thank you, alex. Lost and Sound is sponsored by Audio Technica. Audio Technica, the global but still family run company that make headphones, turntables, cartridges, microphones. They make studio quality yet affordable products because they believe that high quality audio should be accessible to all. So, wherever you are in the world, head on over to AudioTechnicacom to check out all of their range of stuff. My book Coming to Berlin is available in all good bookshops or via the publisher's website, velocity Press. And the music you hear at the beginning, at the end of every episode of Lost and Sound, is by Thomas Giddens, hyperlink in the podcast description. I hope you enjoyed listening to that. It's great to be back. I hope you're doing well and, yeah, chat to you soon. Bye, bye.