Sam Kimzey of Chaac Technologies looks to the skies for the solution to twin problems

Our guest today is Sam Kimzey, co-founder of Chaac Technologies. That’s a pretty unusual name for a tech company – Sam will explain where the name comes from and why it is so relevant to Chaac’s  mission.

Chaac’s technologies has developed an innovative solution to address simultaneously two of the  biggest sustainability challenges the world faces today: access to clean water and access to clean energy. In places like the US and Europe we tend to take access to water for granted, but it is a major challenge in many parts of the world, a challenge we need to solve to improve living standards and boost economic growth. The solution that Chaac technologies has come up with is the most imaginative we have come across so far; we’ll let Sam describe it to you. We’ll just say that it’s out of the box ideas like these that give us confidence that we’ll eventually be able to put global growth on a fully sustainable path.

Chaac technologies is also a perfect example of an early tech startup: two cofounders, both with a background in the military, and one big idea to help millions of people. Chaac technologies has already struck several high-profile affiliations—this is a company to follow very closely.

Enjoy the episode, share it with friends and colleagues, and if you can spare a few minutes do write us a review on iTunes. Thanks for being curious!

Transcript

Michael: 0:00

Hi there and for edge listeners. Before we start the show, we wanted to let you know about a new venture. Marco and I are launching that we're quite excited about, we're calling it the[inaudible]. It's this strategic advise. What is sort of his aim that startups in the growth phase, depending on how you've raised money and how you've grown, that could mean companies who've just received the series a funding company thinking about raising series B funding, what even later. The point is that the strategy garage is for companies who perhaps for the first time have to do some serious thinking about their future market or year or two or even five or 10 down the road. Maybe you have as chief strategy officer, but her time is taken up by tactical work or more likely you don't have a CSO yet or you're just perpetually short staffed or perhaps you don't have the proper skill set for strategy interpreting your company's macroeconomic context.

Marco: 0:55

That's where we come in. So what is the strategy garage? It's a series of different strategy offerings available individually or bundled priced for startups budget. For example, our roadside assistance will help you understand how macro economic news might affect your market. Our alignment check will help make sure your C suite is all focusing on the right issues in a consistent manner. Our tuneup and rebuild can help you improve your strategy or build it from scratch and our test drive will help you do rigorous scenario planning. We'll use our experience of leading innovation strategy for some very large and established organizations combined with our experience working with startups to help your startup grow. If you're a startup CEO, CFO, COO, and would like to learn more or a VC or other funder and no company that can use our services, please reach out, send an email to strategy garage at[inaudible] dot com that's a strategy garage, one word at M, the number four edge.com.

Sam Kimzey: 2:00

I've been around the world, I've been to a lot of different places and one of the things that I'm, I really believe is that, you know, now we're going to start, we're going to have to get back to basic infrastructure questions. We're gonna have to get back to, um, you know, we've got to, we've got to build better roads, we've got to build better grids, we've got to build better infrastructure. Um, and I'd start to, I think that the world is going to start refocusing. Um, you know, the economics of it, it, you're going to start refocusing on some of these very basic infrastructure questions. Um, and, and you know, so, you know, we're starting to see that we're in the U S of course, the, the trillion dollar infrastructure bill that's always been kind of floated out there. Eventually. That's gonna come to fruition in some way. Um, you know, the middle East is, is putting tons of money, uh, into, um, infrastructure. And when I say this, I'm talking about like if you've flown through Doha, Qatar recently, you've seen the airport, they put tons of money into it, um, to get folks in and out of there. Those are the kinds of things that I think are going to be, um, the next 10 years. And that's really where the forefront of technology is going to start focusing of the next 10, 20 years, uh, or, or those questions. And then we'll get back to dog collars and talk to toaster ovens. But

Michael: 3:33

hi there and welcome to M for edge podcast about technologies that will change how the economy functions. In today's episode we speak with Sam Kinsey of chalk technologies. That's C H a C and you'll have to listen to the episode to find out why they chose that unusual name. In fact, their technology solution is

Marco: 3:53

equally unusual. Chock is thinking on two of the world's major challenges at once. Energy, poverty and water scarcity and they're tackling these problems through a solution that is ingenious. If a little unconventional. Chuck's founders have unusual backgrounds for startup founders too because well they met while working for Uber. Their other shared experience was in the U S military. There's a certain can do as them that comes across when you speak to them, which makes their ideas seem less well really out there and they show encouragingly that not all capitals of former colleagues are as dysfunctional as you and me. You've been a loyal emperor edge listener. You will know that. We've interviewed startups of many sizes from those with series D two companies with$80 million to late stage fundraising to brand new ventures with slipping their way to reality. Check is just a two person operation right now, so it's amazing to see what two guys a cool idea and Cedars or Kathy can accomplish. We hope we'll be able to check in with them as they scale and grow. Here's Sam Kimsey

Michael: 5:05

enjoy the episode and thanks for being curious, Sam Kimsey of chalk technologies. Welcome to M for edge.

Sam Kimzey: 5:17

Hey guys, how you doing?

Marco: 5:19

Very same. Thanks for being on the podcast. And to kick it off, why don't you tell us and our listeners, why on earth are you doing this? Why on earth did you decide to build the company in the atmosphere and explained what Chuck is all about?

Sam Kimzey: 5:32

Yeah, yeah. No, I, I'm, I'm excited to talk about it and, you know, um, it's funny cause I think the cliche answer is you can talk about better environment. You can talk about, um, you know, building stuff or, uh, uh, your kids and all of that, but a lot, and that's there. That's obviously there. But a lot of this is just applying, um, you know, applying a lot of, um, my background and my drive to solve problems to, to this area. And, and when I saw this, um, uh, in the potential to impact a utility access, um, and, and, and get at those things, I just was so attracted to the unique idea, um, and, and the problems that it, that it entails, that, that just really, really drew me in. So beyond the kind of like, you know, basic, you know, why, why didn't I start a solar company or something that's that basic, like that's what it really is. The uniqueness of the whole,

Michael: 6:37

yeah. People misuse the word unique a lot. Um, but I think chalk is actually unique. Um, haven't seen anything else. Like, and the name is also, um, unusual if not unique. So for our listeners, that's not in my New York accent shock, but it's shock with a C H a C. and so explain what that means too.

Sam Kimzey: 6:57

Yeah. Yeah. So chalk is actually an ancient, uh, a Mayan God who, um, uh, was, uh, uh, the God of thunder. And, um, he had a big ax, uh, and the, the, you know, the, the ancient to Indians, um, uh, uh, believe that when he, uh, when thunder happened, it was him chopping the clouds with his big acts. Um, and the sound that came from it was shock, like a, like a big ax hitting a piece of wood. Um, so we, we, uh, we took that, that was actually Jake hammock, my cofounder, his, his idea. And we took that and ran with it. We just really loved the idea. Um, because we are reaching up into the clouds and grabbing the atmosphere and, you know, we, we won't tell the secret that's really what our technology is doing, but, uh, it may or may not be.

Michael: 7:57

You've got a guy up there with, with an ax. So, um, for, for our listeners who are now on the edge of their seats, we, Marco referenced, you know, I underneath you doing something, atmosphere chalk. Is this a cloud God? So tell us what you guys do. What is the technology you are trying to bring to Mark?

Sam Kimzey: 8:13

Absolutely, yes. So what it is, it's a, it's atmospheric water generation at its basic, which is basic. Yeah. Basically dehumidification technology. So we're taking the water vapor that is in the air, um, around us, up in the sky, um, and we're taking that water, um, uh, condensing it from vapor into actual water, um, and then dropping it, uh, via gravity down. Um, essentially a very long tube, uh, where it impacts the hydro turbine, spins the hydro turbine and produces power with the output being, uh, clean water, um, CloudWatch. Uh, so that, that's, that's kind of the, in a nutshell what we do. Um, there's, there's obviously a lot to that, but uh, that, that's pretty much it.

Marco: 9:03

That's pretty impressive cause you're trying to solve two problems at one, right? It's addressing energy access and clean water access. Can you talk a bit about the scale of the problem? I think some of our listeners will be familiar with the challenge of energy access, but if you, most of us, especially in the U S take water access for granted.

Sam Kimzey: 9:25

Yeah, no, and I think that's a great point is obviously energy. Um, you know, it's almost self evident. I mean, people really do understand there's, there's energy concerns in the world and, and we need more and more energy. Um, but the water side and, and especially to folks, I would say it's like East coast, uh, folks in the U S on the East coast. So always kind of get the, the energy side cause that's what they need. Um, you know, especially on the East coast, but everybody on the East coast is kind of just watering their lawns, doing whatever. Whereas the West coast folks really especially, um, you know, folks out in the mountain States, things like that are really understanding, um, the water, the water concerns because of, uh, drying rivers and, um, uh, you know, the water crisis in California, things like that. And then around the globe, um, even when we can see the water crisis, uh, occurring, uh, globally in various Latin American countries and African nations, uh, all around the world. And water is just one of those things where you kind of have it and you don't think about it, but when you don't have it, you don't have it. Um, and so it's, it's, it's, it's becoming, um, you know, a more and more, uh, of a, of a major impact to folks. Um, and, and people are really starting to see the issues surrounding water and it, and it's going to become kind of one of, in my opinion, it's going to become kind of one of the access issues like energy did over the last hundred years as we built out this, you know, vast industrialized, globalized economy. Um, that's going to be, uh, I think water is going to be kind of that next frontier in a lot of ways.

Michael: 11:06

I want to, there are a bunch of issues I want to get to, but I do want to give listeners a good picture of what the thing actually is. So you mentioned there's a tube basically that takes the water from, from the clouds. But if, if, uh, you haven't yet spoken to Sam or Jake, that image is by itself probably a little bit confusing. So what's the thing? How high up is it? How long is this tube? What happens at the bottom? Yeah, it's not floating in the clouds. Exactly.

Sam Kimzey: 11:35

It's not floating in the clouds. Exactly. You got that, you've got that. Right. So there's, you know, there's water surrounding us right now. Like if you, if you're sitting wherever you're sitting, there's water vapor. Um, it's all a basis of relative humidity, things like that, sea levels, et cetera. So there is in the air right now around you as you go up, there's an in kind of, depending on where you are there, there could be more or less, but there's kind of a sweet spot around about a thousand feet where there's a really good amount of water vapor that, um, you know, that we can really tap into. So yeah, it's not like we're chasing clouds around. It's a great visual, but it's not like we're flying around chasing clouds, trying to suck them down with some big hose, um, as, as fun as the visual is. It's just not realistic. Um, and so really the heart of the unit is based around a condenser apparatus. Um, and, and I, I don't want to get, I want to be really careful with explaining the technology in complete detail just because we're still going through patent applications. We're building out things, we're discovering stuff as we build this. Um, it, it basically is the heart of it is a condenser unit that operates off of some pretty interesting physics principles to, uh, end trap the water vapor, turn it into water itself. And then, um, you know, so now you have, uh, you have water and then it drops it down, um, a long tube and this tube, once it goes down the tube, now you're starting to hit hydrostatic pressures. You're, you're getting into terminal velocity, things like that. This becomes basic. Um, I'd say basic, but it really is, it's, it's, it's basic, um, hydroelectric principles of, you know, just like you, if you had a big waterfall, it was getting a, a turbine and drops down. It hits a turbine and spins how we're keeping it up in the air. And I think that's kind of what, you know, we're, we're looking at different ways of doing it. So there's the potential to put it on. Um, like a blimp type apparatus. Um, we're also looking at, um, just tower, not just butt, but tower rising. The, the um, um, the condenser. Um, one of the, one of the interesting things we discovered as we've been down this journey is there's actually a lot of abandoned, um, wind turbine towers out out, um, in the Midwest that, uh, uh, don't have a current use. Um, now they may not be at a thousand feet, but we can still capture some of, uh, the water vapor from those Heights as well. Um, and the other is simply mounting it on, um, things like high mountains. Um, so going up to a mountain that has a thousand foot bluff and Mount and mounting it on there. Um, but the heart of it is a condenser unit that, uh, that that's what pulls in the water, uh, vapor, turns it into water and then drops it down to yet the large tube. And it's like, you just mentioned that the going through patent applications, you're still developing the technology. So how much of these a

Marco: 14:51

is still on paper? How much of it is a functioning prototype level is then your feet ready for commercial development.

Sam Kimzey: 15:01

Yeah, I'll start. It's not ready for commercial production yet. Uh, but we're very close. So, um, a lot of the pieces have been built. We have done a lot of testing on the various components of it. Um, and we're actually, we're actually working, uh, we have a one piece of technology that we are looking at licensing to, uh, to supplement this, uh, as well that that's actually coming along very nicely. And this is, it's really gonna improve the efficiency. So a lot of this has been built. We built some prototypes. Um, you know, I, I, it really is sometimes, so, uh, you know, two guys in a garage like building things they bought at Lowe's to put this together. Um, and, and we feel like we are very close to having a good prototype on hand. Um, that may not necessarily be an MVP, but we'd be very close to an MVP and then it's a matter of scaling it.

Michael: 15:59

Got it. Yeah. I mean, first of all, I want to know Marco, if we can get some affiliate marketing dollars for the Lowe's reference their home Depot. You're welcome to chip in. So one of the questions I had, and you and I had discussed this a while back, was you know, how much of the system you feel you need to manufacture yourself, how much of the system, you've got a lot of different parts in this thing. How much of it can you, um, can you license or, or buy it loose? You know, how much of it is, is new and unique? Like the concept?

Sam Kimzey: 16:30

Yeah, the heart of the con, the heart of the condenser unit is probably the most, uh, and, and it's a system based on some physics principles that were, uh, again, I want to be really careful how I did, how I describe it, but it's based on some pretty interesting, uh, physics principles. Um, that is, that is probably like the, the patentable piece. That's like really the core of it. Um, as far as like putting it together, uh, you know, yes, there's going to be some OEM parts that we're going to have to eventually outsource or you know, or even insource build our own manufacturing plant to, to build, um, you know, the prototype itself. Um, we're going to build in house just because it's, it's easier that way, but once you start getting into OEM manufacturing, there's gonna you know, that, that, that's a scaling question really. Um, but it's not like we're, yeah, there's no crazy materials out there that we're using that that's, this is actually a physics problem more than it is a materials problem.

Michael: 17:35

Got it. Interesting. Okay, good. Um, you, you mentioned, uh, you're thinking about how do you scale this already and what are some of the difficulties that you guys, you know, some of the challenges that you guys are ready for seeing and how you scale this. Do you need a, I've seen need to be a pie. Um, talk about, you know, how you find the markets, first of all.

Sam Kimzey: 18:01

Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's actually a, um, that's, that's the, a lot of the debate if you will, a lot of the questions if you will. Um, you know, beyond just building the, the, the thing itself, the, the I the, the product itself, it's um, you know, finding, finding the, the markets and channeling it. Um, the interesting thing is the use cases, there's really use cases for energy and water or I, nobody's really questioning that. Like that's kind of self evident. People we need clean energy. People know that we need clean water and yeah, you can, you could sit there all day coming up with use cases if you will for cheaper, cleaner energy like that. That's not a a question. Um, the channeling is probably the biggest, the biggest hurdle after we build the product. And you know, you've got a couple pieces that we have to look at. One, we don't want to get overrun by somebody else. He just goes, Oh yeah, I can build that as well and does that, which is, you know, can very much happen. And we want to partner with the right folks who can help us get into these markets very quickly, um, and build these things out. So we've looked at different, um, different channelings. We've, we've done some, uh, we built out some pretty interesting, um, you know, partnerships. So we're actually partnering with a, um, with a native native American reservation, um, to deploy on their property. Um, you know, through, uh, through a, uh, native American owned company. So that, that's actually in the works right now. We've been partnering with a, um, a major electricity brokerage who does a lot of business with, um, you know, they have some really deep connections into the energy markets and, um, they put together packages for folks, like big data centers or, you know, I'm setting up a data center, I'm setting up a brewery or I'm setting up a big building in New York city and I need, um, you know, energy packages for that. So they do a lot of that. And then the longer term, uh, so that's kind of what I call the beat too. Yeah. That's like the BTC B2B type of business model. Um, then there's, um, kind of the government side of it, the municipality side, and that's the longer term play of having these things, um, be able to power like an LA County. Um, you know, in working with municipalities that need, uh, you know, water and power, um, and, and building that into the, into the grid system, those are the longer term plays because they take a lot longer to play out. Those are years long plays not, um, not short plays, but we feel like we can very quickly, based on some of this we can probably get, um, once we have the product, uh, these deployed onto the smaller, uh, I'd say smaller, but these, these other more consumer-based, uh, channels fairly quickly. Um, and, and really start proofing that concept out.

Marco: 21:09

And I'm curious here, Sam, with DM as your talk about the possible development possible partnerships with the municipalities, local governments that are there specific ways in which you see the electrical grid evolving? So the future of energy that you think create a specially strong synergies with your technology?

Sam Kimzey: 21:32

Yeah. Wow. That's an interesting question. Yes. Um, you know, I think one of the things is, is that, um, well let me, let me back it up and I'll just say like, I think one of the things is, we all, we all recognize that water and power is, is a massively political in nature. Um, type of thing. Utilities are massively political in nature for various reasons. Um, you know, if you're a, if you're a mayor of a town, um, you want to make sure your constituents have, have those utilities. Um, so you know, that, that, that then comes down to now you get into the money aspect of it. And of course, that's where, um, you know, and the deployability aspect of it, if, how many towns have essentially died out because they didn't have access to one or the other. Um, and so what we see is, is it is if we can bring this into, um, you know, localities and municipalities, cities, et cetera, and we can bring it in there and we can either supplement or be a major part of, uh, and when I say baseload, it's not just baseload for energy, but baseload for water. Um, we can really turn around, uh, some, you know, some areas that have been stricken by lack of access. And that's why we really go, we say, um, you know, our focus is on access to infrastructure. Um, our focus is, is, is on. Um, it's not just about being an electricity company or about being a water company, it's about being an infrastructure access company. We want to be able to provide that. And even some interesting kind of components of that is then people start asking the questions of, well, you're really up high. Can you put a wifi repeater or 5g repeater on these things and you know, then we can have a communications in, in our area. Um, and there, there's complexities there, but it's kind of one of those, how many other things can come out of this if you have something that is producing, um, water and energy, what other access programs can you start putting into place using this technology? Um, so yeah, we see the synergies in, in the, in, in that, you know, big grids are very efficient, but they do have some limitations in that they can leave certain areas out and this can be a supplemental piece to it or it can, it can also be a baseload for a large grid as well. So there's some really interesting pieces there.

Michael: 24:11

So you hit on a couple of different points there. Um, one of which, um, you sort of alluded to I guess is the different, the different needs of specific communities, um, whether it's, it's the lack of broadband or other internet access or lack of the utilities you're, you're specifically providing, um, does that, how does that play into what geographies you go to first? So we've talked a lot about the differences between the Eastern us and the Western U S in terms of their water needs. Um, typically, you know, when people think about electricity access or even water access, often their minds first go to developing countries. So, how does that play into your, your go to market strategy or where you see these, you know, the chalk technology adding the most value or maybe having to, you know, the, the easiest, easiest entry.

Sam Kimzey: 25:08

Yeah. Well so believe it or not[inaudible] yeah, everybody kinda does gravitate towards that developing nation, you know, like, Oh that, that's not the problem of my backyard. But the, the true answer is it kind of is. Um, and you know, like I, I use data centers cause I think that's a really good example of, um, you know, the type of, um, uh, you know, infrastructure if you will, that that requires a ton of electricity. And what people I don't think fully see, they may, maybe they know, maybe they don't, but oftentimes, um, you know, these data centers, they'll go out there and they'll build like a, a wind turbine or they'll build a bunch of solar panels on their property to supply their base load that they need. Um, because they, they don't want to be tied into the grid or it's just not economically feasible, whatever the issue may be. Um, and then they kind of be, they kind of become their own generators in a lot of ways. Um, so that's the kind of market that we're looking at, that, uh, we, we do believe that we have, even right here down the, down the road. I'm in Maryland, down the road in Virginia where they're building a lot of these, we feel like we would have a very good advantage to, you know, be out there supplying a baseload of, uh, energy and water for the building. Um, so yeah, and it's, it's funny like I've mentioned New York city, um, you know, so we already have the height, right? It's New York city. Uh, you have height, height advantage, uh, you will, we're looking at potential partnerships that could involve placing a, uh, one of these products on the top of a very tall building. And then you have water and power for that building that's off grid that helps it be more resilient. Uh, and, and that becomes a supplemental piece to the, to the larger grid. Um, and that's, that's where we see, uh, you know, we really do see the value not just in developing nations, but here in what is a developed nation because you're starting to see that, um, folks separating into micro grids in a lot of ways and in a starting with big business, but it's not really at the residential level yet. But I, I could see that eventually happening. Um, you know, at the residential level where you, you've got to go out and you've got to build a development and you need so much water to power or not to power, but to, to, uh, provide water for the showers and the sinks and the toilets, et cetera. Um, some developments are not getting built in Western States because they just don't have the access. Um, you know, to, to that. So that can help with housing issues, uh, even in the United States. So it's not, I, I look at it as it's not just for developing nations. It's, it's for us who, as a developed nation have started to hit kind of that, um, you know, where, where can we go? What's the grid? After next, what's that next piece?

Michael: 28:12

Right, right. Yeah. So you mentioned, uh, you know, tall built tall buildings in New York. So if it's, you know, thousand feet up, we're looking at a, I don't know, a hundred story building or something like that. So lots of, lots of residents. If it's a data center in Virginia, um, you know, very, very huge power needs actually. So, um, what is the capacity you guys are, are planning for these installations? How many megawatts are we talking about here?

Sam Kimzey: 28:42

Yeah, we're, we're aiming for between one to five megawatts, uh, of, uh, power to be generated from one of these. And, um, you know, we're, we're aiming for several thousand gallons per minute, uh, to be, uh, flowing once we get a full installation. And that's not just from one condenser. I, I don't want to make sound, uh, you know, out of line, but that is from a, a full fledged installation that has, um, kind of like, uh, a wind farm or a solar farm. It would be like a AWG farm, I guess would be a way to describe it. Um, so that, that's what we're, that's what our goal is to eventually get to,

Michael: 29:23

right. So for perspective, five megawatts for people who, who aren't as familiar with these numbers is the size of, um, well, you know, a modern wind farm can be like 200 to 300 megawatts, easy, often more. Um, you know, uh, a nuclear plant is, is a gigawatt, so, so we're relatively small on the thousand gallons per minute for water. I actually don't have a, a good benchmark. So what does that, what does that mean?

Sam Kimzey: 29:51

Yeah, it kind of means different things in different places depending on, uh, you know, how, how thing, how folks look at water. So what we've found is in the water markets, again, it, it, uh, uh, a thousand gallons, uh, is roughly a dollar 50. Just to put it in economic terms, the average price in United States is about a buck 50 per thousand gallons. Um, and that, that, that's of course, you know, out on California, it's far more out in the East coast, it's, it's a little bit less, but that's about the average. So to put it in economic terms, that's about how much, how much we're producing. Um, once you start getting into gallons per minute and gallons per day, that that comes to several million gallons that can be produced over a period of time. And, and that's, that's filling up, you know, reservoirs and lakes. The thing is though is that you, you use that, um, you know, we use that, uh, I mean New York city, I couldn't even give you, I don't even think they estimate how much water they go through. Um, but that that's easily would be consumed in a building, um, over the course of a day or two very easily. So that, that's, um, that, that's kind of where that's at. Now. You'd still mentioned, yeah, that the, those are smaller installations. Um, comparatively, um, we recognize our technology is nascent. It's not going to be outright competing with everybody right off the bat. That's not the, that's not the intent. We would be crazy to say it could be, but it's going to be developed over time and it will become a competitive, uh, it will definitely become competitive. Um, as we, as we optimize and, you know, get this rolling, uh, over over the years.

Marco: 31:40

And Sam, you mentioned resilience earlier, there is clearly a strong focus on sustainability as well in your technology. And so far we have not talked at all about the your experience, but you have an extensive experience in strategic roles in the armed forces in government. So can you talk a bit about that and especially how it has contributed to shaping the way you look at these issues?

Sam Kimzey: 32:03

Yeah, yeah. Thanks for, thanks for bringing that up and I appreciate that. Yes. I've, um, I'm a combination of, uh, military, uh, uh, about 22 years. I'm actually still in the national guard, uh, as an as an army officer, um, government. I spent, uh, about seven or so years with the federal government in both department of Homeland security and department of energy mainly, uh, and also with a, a FEMA, mainly working in the, uh, crisis and disaster management infrastructure protection world. And then, uh, on the corporate side, uh, I am, my last company was a, a little known tech company called Uber technologies that, uh, uh, just IPO to that six months ago. And it does ride hailing. Where I, I sounds familiar. Sounds familiar. You might've heard of it built out there at global security center. Um, and so we were the central hub. Uh, we are still there, um, monitoring, uh, uh, uh, all the crises around the globe, all the market interactions, uh, and uh, responding to that on behalf of, uh, Uber and keeping the customers happy. So yeah, a lot of different roles, um, in, in mainly in the security world. Um, but a lot of, uh, roles in, in understanding that what they required was made, was understanding of big infrastructure and how does big infrastructure fit into our world. Um, you know, obviously it was a certain lens, but how does that big infrastructure fit into our world. Um, and then I, I've taken that in, in, in this role as, um, you know, Jake Jake had, uh, Jake hammock, who's my co founder. He, uh, had developed the idea, kind of a nascent idea, and he was talking to me. He actually had, uh, worked with me at Uber. We were talking and he said, yeah, you ought to come along and do this with me. And, um, you know, it just was such an interesting idea and something I can, um, I've actually learned a ton because I'm bringing more than just the strategic thought. Now I've now I've got to learn marketing and venture capital and all this other stuff that I've been around but never done. Um, now I get to kind of bring all those pieces to play as well. Um, but yeah, that's, that's kinda my background is a combination of military, uh, government and corporate side. And Jake is also former military, correct? Yes. Jake is a former military and he's currently working with a, uh, another tech company, um, uh, more in the call center, uh, uh, technology space as a, as their, uh, um, director of cybersecurity. Got it. So, you know, you mentioned earlier the two of you working in a garage, but actually you're your different parts of in different parts of the country. Right. So you said you were in Maryland, but he's out in Utah, is that right? He is. So, yeah. So he's out of salt Lake. The company is actually based out of salt Lake city. Um, and, and is registered in Utah. I live in Maryland, um, for various reasons. Decided not to move out to salt Lake, but we're in a modern world. We have zoom and telephones and emails. So it's, it's not that difficult, but I do go out there when I said that, that was actually us. I was out in Utah for a couple of weeks, um, uh, about a month ago and that was, that was us just taking a, you know, a screwdriver and some, uh, sheet metal from Lowe's and, uh, putting things together and ACE, I'll, I'll throw a

Michael: 35:50

awesome,

Sam Kimzey: 35:53

uh, what else is out there.

Michael: 35:58

Nice. So, so the distance does not, does not, or has at least not yet anyway. Provided any particular challenge to your getting this thing off the ground?

Sam Kimzey: 36:09

No, no. The, the engineering we've been working with, uh, some affiliate partners, we're actually going to, we're very, very close to bringing an in house engineer, uh, on who, uh, might be located closer to me actually. But no, it hasn't, it has, again, we're kind of in the modern world where it's like, you know, it's nice to be in the same room as somebody and it helps in certain ways, but we can, we can function just fine over email and, you know, zoom and Google and all that other good stuff.

Michael: 36:42

Got it. Great. And, um, I want to give a shout out. We met you and I at a pitch night at a potential energy DC, um, which is a local sort of accelerator program that's just starting its own. Um, uh, what do you call it? Angel investor group as well. So shout out to BDC and I, so we're also both members of the clean energy business network, CBN. So shout out to them too. Um, how have you found the networking opportunities generally here in the DMV as we like to call it an out in Utah? Um, DMV for those not here, that's DC, Maryland, Virginia, not um, the department of motor vehicles. That's what the, it's what all the cool kids say. Um, so how, how's it been being a, you know, small energy business, um, you know, you're, you're, you're really quite new. So tell us about your, you know, initial work getting networked.

Sam Kimzey: 37:41

Yeah, well I think we kind of have the best of multiple worlds because of how, how the, um, or, or, uh, separated is so salt Lake city is, um, you know, kind of one of those up and coming tech communities. It's a lot of folks from Silicon Valley who've just gotten kind of tired of Silicon Valley, don't want to spend the money out there, have come out there to salt Lake. Salt Lake has a really, um, diverse and interesting, um, uh, innovation, uh, community that's built around it. And then, you know, the same in the DMV area as well is that, you know, you look in Maryland, Virginia, DC, the tech companies that are, um, being built out here plus the government access, um, is, is so, so important. Um, especially in the energy and water role and utilities world, you've gotta be, um, you've got to be plugged in. You've got to understand what's going on in the government space because it's so regulated. It's so political. Um, you know, we can talk about current events. It's all around energy. It's, um, that, that's, uh, you know, I think it's important to have our fingers in both pots. So the fact that, um, you know, we can, we can have, uh, you know, a little bit of separation from all of that and focus on the innovation side and get plugged in with the network out in, uh, Utah and out in salt Lake. And then the fact that we can be here and we can be plugged in with the network, uh, here in the, in the, in the, um, the DMV region. I think it's just, you know, we, we get the best of all worlds because of that. Um, and that's, that's why I also say it works really well because you know, we're in two different time zones too. So sometimes, yeah, it's only a couple of hours difference, but you know, that couple of hours gets us a little bit more productivity.

Marco: 39:43

Marco[inaudible] any other questions for Sam? I was just going to point out that besides the advantage of the times on different, so the extra hours of productivity, a little bit of distance can be very healthy for a joint business. I think Michael and I will kill each other if we were in the same town. Correct?

Sam Kimzey: 40:01

Yeah. Yeah. It gives us, it gives us a little more time sometimes to think about the uh, uh, you know, the responses back and when we have, um, you know, like all businesses, we have a lot of internal debates on what are we doing, where are we going, why are we doing this, et cetera. And then it does help to sometimes sit back and go, well, I got a little time to respond. Let me really think.

Michael: 40:25

Yeah, right. Perfect. So, Sam, we usually wrap these up with, uh, uh, opportunity for our guests, sort of lax philosophic about something like, you know, where do you see this in 20 years? But you guys are so new that I'm not going to, I'm not going to burden you with a 20 year question, but I'll, I'll burden you with, uh, let's say one year question. Where do you guys want to be as a company in one year?

Sam Kimzey: 40:49

Well, yeah, so that's a great question and this is kind of at the, where do we want to be, what do we want to be? My, my view and my view is that this product is the, Putin has the potential to create, um, a brand new method, if you will, of producing renewable energy and water. And I put it on par with solar and wind and hydro and all those other things. And you know, if, and I believe we will, when we get this thing off the ground and we build the product and it's working, I see a parabolic, uh, growth, uh, in, in what we're doing. And, and like I said earlier, I don't, I don't feel like we are, uh, nobody's questioning the use case. Everybody gets it in terms of like, yeah, box that creates more energy and water cheaper. Got it. That's great. Um, I, I think the, the, the, the real question on that front is how quickly can you get it out there once you build it, once the thing works. And so I see us, um, you know, being a very big player very quickly, just because once, you know, once you have this thing, it's gonna, it's gonna grow exponentially. People are gonna want it very, you know, they will, they'll want it yesterday because it's gonna save them money. Um, so that's, that's where, and that's the challenge. The, the growth challenge, the scaling challenges. Um, kind of our next big thing. And I, and I will, I will wax a little fizzle, philosophical. I'm kind of the 20 year question. Go for it. I've been in the infrastructure world for awhile, so I think about these things and, yep. I feel like, I feel like the other reason I really enjoy this is that, you know, and I came from, you know, the, the tech world, I spent some time in a tech world and, and you know, the, the question of do we need another service? Do we need a social media site or another, Hey, you know, ride hailing entity, do we need another, you know, dog collar that can talk to your toaster oven? That's kinda like, I don't, I think we're kind of moving on that. And a lot of what tech had focused on just in the last 10 or 15 years really has been those service related questions. And as I, I've been around the world, I've been to a lot of different places and one of the things that I'm, I, I really believe is that, you know, now we're going to start, we're going to have to get back to basic infrastructure questions. We're gonna have to get back to, um, you know, we've got to, we've got to build better roads, we've got to build better grids, we've got to build better infrastructure. Um, and I'd start to, I think that the world is going to start refocusing. Um, you know, the economics of it. It, you're going to start refocusing on some of these very basic infrastructure questions. Um, and, and you know, so, you know, we're starting to see that we're in the U S of course, the, the trillion dollar infrastructure bill that's always been kind of floated out there eventually that's gonna come to fruition in some way. Um, you know, the middle East is, is putting tons of money, uh, into, um, infrastructure. And when I say this, I'm talking about like if you flown through Doha, Qatar recently, you've seen the airport, they put tons of money into it, um, to get folks in and out of there. Those are the kinds of things that I think are going to be, um, the next 10 years. And that's really where the forefront of technology is. Gonna start focusing of the next 10, 20 years, uh, or, or those questions. And then we'll get back to dog collars and talk to toaster ovens, but

Michael: 44:37

just stuff the important stuff. All right, great. All right. Well thanks so much for taking the time to talk to us and to tell us about jock. We really appreciate it and good luck on your journey. Thanks so much guys. Appreciate it. And uh, uh, take care your as well. This was fantastic. Thanks. I'm good luck. Thicker. Okay. Bye. Bye. Thanks to the folks over at pod blade for editing. This episode. Pod bleed is an affordable podcast editing service focused on making podcasting more accessible by offering all in one podcast editing, starting at just$20 per episode. We learned the hard way that audio editing is one of the most time consuming parts of the podcasting process. That's why we're now using pod Wade, Ted at our shows. Check them out at[inaudible] dot com that's pod, lead.com and tell them for edge that you.