Back2Basics - Episode 20: Body Language Part 3 – The Event or Interview

Feliciano School of Business faculty members in the department of Information Management and Business Analytics, Dr. Mahmoud ElHussini and Dr. George Elias discuss issues and problems being faced by business professionals. On this podcast, they again discuss what your body language says about you. Dr. Moe and Dr. George breakdown issues and problems being encountered by entrepreneurs, executives, and all levels of managers.

Co-Hosts Background:
 
Mahmoud (Moe) Elhussini, MS, MBA, DBA, is an Instructor Specialist at Montclair State University.  He is also the president and founder of The Growth Coach Allentown - Somerville.  A consulting and business coaching company.  Moe has worked in data & operations management for over a decade.  He then switched to business consulting, helping companies build ERP and customer interface systems.  After that he transitioned into international business development, helping companies manage their internal organic growth or through mergers and strategic alliances.  Moe has published a couple of handbooks, one on emotional intelligence and another on servant leadership.  He is currently working on a third that revolves around overcoming sales objections.  Moe has a BA in Biology from Rutgers University, an MBA in Global Management, and MS in Information Management, and a DBA in Geopolitics and Strategy.  At Montclair University, Moe is part of the Information Management and Business Analytics Department.  He teaches Business Decision Making, Operations Management, and Statistics in Business courses.
  
George Elias, Ph.D., PMP is Chief Systems Engineer for Space and Airborne Systems leading initiatives in integrated spectrum management and mission avionics at L3Harris Technologies. Additionally, Dr. Elias is as an adjunct professor at Montclair State University’s department of information management & business analytics where he teaches business operations and statistics. Dr. Elias is experienced in leading the development and production of complex hardware and software system solutions including: electronic warfare systems, communication systems, and space systems. Previously, Dr. Elias served as the Director of Capture Excellence & Business Development Operations for the Electronic Warfare Sector. As an L3Harris Technologies Certified Enterprise Capture Lead, Dr. Elias was responsible for directing large, complex pursuits across the enterprise. In addition to systems engineering and business development, Dr. Elias has held roles in finance, quality assurance, operations/manufacturing, modeling and simulation, project engineering, program management, and Internal Research and Development (IRAD). Dr. Elias has a Doctorate in Systems Engineering, a Masters Certificate in Project Management, and a Masters in Computer Science from Stevens Institute of Technology. Additionally, Dr. Elias has a Bachelors in Computer Information Systems from Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey & New Jersey Institute of Technology. Finally, Dr. Elias has a Mini-MBA from Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:04

Hello everyone, welcome back to, back to Basics. I know it's been a couple of weeks. I hope everyone is well. I am Moel Hussini and I am here with my dear, dear friend, george Elias. Hey, george, welcome back, buddy, how are you?

Speaker 2: 0:22

You're doing great Mal. How are you?

Speaker 1: 0:24

I'm good, I'm good, I'm good wrapping up my Christmas to-do list. Are you done with your gift shopping?

Speaker 2: 0:33

I haven't even started. I'm way behind this year, way behind.

Speaker 1: 0:39

Yeah, and I think I have. I think one more day I should be done. I started really early. Are you off from work or are you working the next week or two?

Speaker 2: 0:49

Well, I'm going to try to take some time off, so at my day job, I'll share something with you. What's?

Speaker 1: 1:00

up.

Speaker 2: 1:02

I get about four weeks worth of vacation to you know, and they'll even let me take five or six or whatever I want. There's really no limit. All year I've taken 19 hours. I can't believe it.

Speaker 1: 1:15

Are you kidding? That's it, old year.

Speaker 2: 1:18

Yeah, yeah, all year. I don't know what happened, so I'm going to try to take a few days off, but there's a user to lose it.

Speaker 1: 1:30

No use it.

Speaker 2: 1:32

That's just the way it goes, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:34

All right. So lesson learned to the listeners don't do that. Use your vacation days, yeah, exactly. No one else. Seriousness, man, you need some downtime. Take advantage of it. Try to take a couple of days. I can't believe that.

Speaker 2: 1:46

Listen, it wasn't on purpose that the year got away from me. I know, Next year I'll have a better plan.

Speaker 1: 1:54

The year does go by quick. Last thing I'll tell you real quick. I mean I was at Burlington the other day getting some things. They already have Valentine stuff up. I'm like slow down, and then it's Easter and then it's Memorial Day and then next Thanksgiving, anyway, anyway, anyway, it's all good. I remember last, last time we met, we were talking about body language. Right, that's kind of like. I think we had a couple of episodes. We're talking about body language. Do you want to continue with that? Shall we continue talking about body language?

Speaker 2: 2:24

Yeah, I think we could probably wrap up body language here, and I think we hit body language from a few different aspects. Right. Even last time we talked about body language over the phone, which I thought was an interesting concept.

Speaker 1: 2:41

True, true To remember that.

Speaker 2: 2:43

Yeah, right, yeah. So what we said last time? We said that we wanted to continue with body language.

Speaker 1: 2:51

Okay.

Speaker 2: 2:53

But something a little bit different, some things that have to do with, maybe, formal events or speaking engagement, interviews and the role that body language has, you know, even at a networking event. Right, yeah, how does that, you know, help you be successful or not?

Speaker 1: 3:18

Nice. You know what? Why don't we? Yeah, let's start with that. Let's start with tell me your thoughts. Let's talk about presentations or networking events. Start with whichever one you want. Let's focus on those. I know because last couple of times you talked about interviews. Let's give some time, if it's okay with you, and then we can come back to interview and get the end. But let's talk about what are your thoughts? What's the link between? Because that's not something that a lot of people think about. So let me ask you this question to kick it off what is, in your mind, the link between body language in general and a networking event? You're walking through the door, you parked your car, you're walking in and there's a bunch of people standing around. What's the relationship? How does that factor in the body language?

Speaker 2: 4:06

So you just mentioned walking to the room, right, just starting from the beginning there. Yes, have you ever noticed? Have you ever noticed that some people, when they walk into a room, they're noticed like the whole room notices, right, and I think that aspect of it is very interesting. There's just a way that some people know how to enter a room and I was thinking about it. I'm thinking that maybe it's how they walk in with confidence. What I mean by that is, you know, back, straight shoulders back. You know you walk through the door with your eyes forward. As soon as you get into the room, you scan the room and look around to where you'd like to go and you head over to an interesting place, right, or to go talk to somebody that you've chosen out of the group. And I think some people just know how to enter a room and some people, you know, make me be a less confident person. Person might walk in almost like head down, looking at the floor, you know, shoulders curled and on the phone or they almost hide.

Speaker 1: 5:22

Texting the phone.

Speaker 2: 5:23

Right, exactly.

Speaker 1: 5:26

That's what I was going to ask you, because what you said at the beginning and you started answering my second question, what you said at the beginning about how you walk in with confidence and look around, some people might listen to that and think like you know what, instinctively, that's what I do. So what I want you to continue with, george, is what shouldn't we do Walking down on the floor. Don't walk in texting on your phone without making you know like eye contact with anybody. What else should you not do? Should you stand by yourself when you walk in at a table? Should you walk towards a group? What things come to your mind that maybe you shouldn't do?

Speaker 2: 6:07

So this is going to sound you know silly, you know silly things, but if you're going to a networking event literally to meet people, right You're. I mean, that's why you're there, right.

Speaker 1: 6:20

Yes.

Speaker 2: 6:21

What I've seen that is interesting is oftentimes networking events will have food and beverages or maybe a little buffet, some snacks. I would say a big no-no in my book would be to head right over to the buffet and fill your hands in your face full of food. You're literally, at that point, putting a barrier between you and your ability to talk.

Speaker 2: 6:50

You're putting a barrier between you and your ability to shake hands. You know, I would say that, even if you know a networking event is going to have food, if you think you're going to be hungry, go and have a snack before you show up. Meet all the important people in the room, don't worry, the food will be there when you're done and if not, there's plenty of places to eat outside the event. Right, yeah? You know, you're not going to starve.

Speaker 1: 7:20

So I'm just like a drink in the hand maybe, and just walk around ready to make contact with other people.

Speaker 2: 7:26

Maybe I would say a drink in the hand is okay. I would say better yet would be nothing in your hand, because if you're at a networking event, what you really want to do is to be able to shake hands and hand out your business cards, yeah, so it becomes very awkward with food and or beverages. So I mean, if you're legitimately thirsty, I think that you can manage maybe with a drink and put it down on the table and you can still work it out. But just be aware that if you're there to meet people and you want to make good eye contact, it's hard to make good eye contact when your focus is in your plate of appetizers or something Got it.

Speaker 1: 8:15

Look, I don't want to say last question, but one last question that I have, and then we can move on to presentations, if you want, or we can continue talking about networking. But one of my some of I go sometimes to events for business coaches, right, and we get together. One of them has a strategy that's a little different than what me and you were talking about and it took me some time to process it and I still don't know how I feel about it. He says when he walks into an event right, a networking event he finds an empty table and he sits at it just by himself and he waits for people to come sit down to talk with him.

Speaker 1: 9:01

Sometimes I feel like you know what, if this event is two hours, and I'm going to do this, and it'll take 15, 20 minutes, half an hour, for someone to maybe think about coming to sit down at the table, it's wasted time. But he actually thinks it's a really good strategy. He loves doing that. He just sits with confidence, with eye contact, with a smile on his face. So you know, he gives that impression that hey, I'm approachable. But he does not walk around, he just waits for someone to come sit with him. What do you think about that? It's different, right.

Speaker 2: 9:41

Yeah, I have mixed feelings. I think that, for me, I would rather be the person that's in charge of going to meet people that I want to meet.

Speaker 2: 9:55

I find that oftentimes the most interesting people in the room, that the people that really need to get spoken to, are usually the ones standing with a crowd around them. Even so, to take the opposite approach and to make yourself a destination is kind of interesting. I'm curious about why it works for this individual, or even if it's, if he's telling himself it works because he doesn't want to stand, he'd rather sit, but I, you know, let's say, really does work. There might be other tricks that he's doing. One is the smiling in the eye contact, the. The other thing that Actually can help in your favor is the way you dress.

Speaker 2: 10:44

Right that is kind of adjacent to to body language, but how you dress. I've told people that I've gone to never king events and business events with with a bow tie on, and Nice, there's some people that are that are really against the bow tie. But I'll just be honest you a well done, not not like a clown bow tie, not the one with it that takes pictures Right now or has a squirt like squirts for.

Speaker 2: 11:13

Work like that but it's like I hand tie, a nice bow tie that goes with my outfit and I find that it attracts people. People want to comment on the bow tie right, nice, and afterwards I've gone out see people for the like oh, you're the guy that had the bow tie on right. They people notice little things that are unusual or nice, pocket, square right.

Speaker 1: 11:38

I do the funky socks kind of approach. I wear the funky.

Speaker 2: 11:44

So, but it becomes the conversation piece, and so you you just put something on you that that is. That's. That's a sign, right? You're not putting it as a sign at, because of course you don't want to look at a clown, right? Yeah you know it.

Speaker 1: 12:00

I get your point appropriately. Yeah you.

Speaker 2: 12:03

You know you become approachable. There's something to talk about. Oh yeah like it could be as easy as Wearing a pin of your favorite Sports team. You now have to have something for somebody to comment on.

Speaker 1: 12:18

Yeah, and to end this point from my from my part I think I was thinking about it while you're talking Events where we end up sitting at round tables. I could see that maybe working where I sit down and wait for random you know so that I'm not targeting anybody, I'm welcoming everybody and whoever wants to come sit. Maybe in that case I could see it working to where, yeah, we're walking around, you know, get our drinks, get our snacks, but then we end up sitting at a table to hear a speech or a talk or whatever. Then maybe I could see myself sitting at a table waiting for people to come sit down. But if it's an event where everybody's walking around, you know it's like an active event, I, yeah, I have, I'm still thinking about it, I'm processing it and I'll leave it up to the listeners to formulate their opinion.

Speaker 2: 13:11

But so the the, the other thing, the mode, just what one more point about that, where you stand in the room into being important, right? So I'll make, I'll make an example. I think standing near an entrance to a door where people have to pass through is Not a bad strategy, right?

Speaker 2: 13:32

if you want to, if you really want to meet the most people possible. You know, positioning your base of operations per se in an area that's frequented or has to get people have to walk by Is not a bad strategy to make sure you meet people, because there's gonna be a natural flow to the room and you could figure out when, where the quote-a-quote currents are in that sea of people. Standing in one of those currents is a way of maximizing your time in your space.

Speaker 1: 14:05

You just reminded me of something. One other Point I want to make about this, and this is from a lesson that I learned we should not try to underestimate or Dismiss Someone that's coming to talk to us that we think like, yeah, meaning there are some people that are that could be a good strategic partner, a good potential client that may approach you, that don't have that aura or that presence around them and may come across as not too confident. Do not dismiss them and move on to the next person. Give anybody that approach you with a handshake or that wants to meet you, give them the time to get to know them, because I've had cases when I was starting out, young and new.

Speaker 1: 14:55

Somebody would Come up to talk to me. They would look nervous. They would look you know, they have that nervous smile on their faces. I would give them a quick handshake, a Quick nod, listen to them for a few seconds and then move on, and then it turns out that it was a huge missed opportunity for me. So my point is don't be quick to judge people. Yes, we should practice exactly everything we talked about, but in the actual event, when you are interacting with people, give people the time to get to know them right, regardless of how you perceive them, that with that initial perception, get to know them, talk to them, give them a fair share of time to you know to get to know them. Don't dismiss people too quickly when you're at a networking event.

Speaker 2: 15:41

I so, fumo, you reminded me of something that's kind of just an interesting idea If you observe how very senior and experienced either business people or politicians react in crowds the most successful ones if you really look at what they do and you can observe things on television at different events. When they're shaking hands, they definitely do that. They don't just turn around. They actually take time with each individual person.

Speaker 2: 16:19

It's something that I want to point out, because now, getting back to body language a little bit, they don't just have a set one smile, they just don't walk around with their teeth grinning all of their faces beaming in the room. They talk, they're serious and then when they first meet the individual, they will shake hands and maybe reach out and touch their shoulder. They look directly in the eyes and then they have this blossoming smile.

Speaker 2: 16:54

They look in the eyes and then the smile. The mouth goes from a regular, maybe serious look to I'm happy to see you look, and I think people notice that when you look somebody in the eyes and then the smile blossoms out of seeing them, it really makes for a great connection, as opposed to you just having a quote unquote plastic smile on and beaming it all over the room, then your smile isn't individually special for each person. I do think that having the ability to connect even with people that are less confident or less outgoing, you can actually end up with a special bond with that person where they feel extra comfortable with you because of those first few moments.

Speaker 1: 17:52

And appreciative, yeah, and appreciative, yeah, because you're building rapport, it's kind of like your relationship, and you're showing that smile, that genuine smile that comes out eventually. It's based upon the discussion, so it makes the person feel, wow, like he appreciates me, appreciates the time, appreciates the discussion. Those little things add up, I agree with you. They add up to formulate that opinion that we have of others that we're talking with, agreed, agreed, agreed. So, george, you're presenting to a group Two times. One time it's four people, six people sitting at a conference table and you walk into the conference room, and then another time you walk into an auditorium and there's 600 people standing in front of you.

Speaker 1: 18:43

What do you do differently? Let me tell you real quick, while you think about it, what I do, what I kind of. I'll tell you what I do in both cases. I try to use the real estate. I walk around a little bit. I'm not standing in one spot, right, I'm using my hands, not waving them like a bird, but I'm using them to kind of activate that interaction between myself and them. I'm still using positive energy, not as much when I'm in a conference room as I would. I don't kickstart that boost energy when I'm in a small room as I do when I'm in a big room with a lot of people. Maybe I kick in and fuse a lot more energy. But let me stop there. What do you think you would do the same or do differently in both scenarios?

Speaker 2: 19:40

This is an interesting question and I think it really depends on the room dynamics. Let's start with the conference room example. Let's just say it's anywhere from a one-on-one to maybe a handful of people, Definitely on a one-on-one. I am not going to stand up and present that just seems a little silly.

Speaker 2: 20:06

In fact I want to give them individual attention. It's possible I'll try to lean forward in my chair, show that I'm interested in them. I definitely don't try to read off the slides or something like that. I'm really more just talking to them or telling them the story or telling them about the business or what needed to happen. I have, I'll tell you, in conference rooms of even maybe five or six people. If it's an important presentation and there's slides being projected, I have stood up.

Speaker 2: 20:45

I know that's different than what a lot of people do. I will stand up, and I do it from a presentation. I still as though when you stand up you command the room a bit more. I'll do that on purpose and I'll try to stand in front and not in a way that blocks the slides, but maybe off to the side. I won't move around a lot unless you have to make a point. I'll use my arms, my body to maybe match some of the story or some of the words that I'm saying, for sure.

Speaker 2: 21:22

I would say from there on the larger the room, the bigger my body language gets Anywhere from walking around to using my arms, like if I said the word big, I might spread my arms all the way out to show something big. If I said the word small. I might use my index finger and thumb together to show something small. I'm using hand gestures to mimic the words. I think it helps people to understand.

Speaker 1: 21:58

I was going to say what you're talking about now is even sometimes, if you're with one person only, yes. Because I was going to say yeah, yeah, which is fine, it's okay. Because I was going to say I disagree a little bit with you. Because I was just thinking last month I met in my coaching with a couple of clients where it was one-on-one and I did what you said at the end now, which I agree with. I did actually stand up and present. If I have a presentation and I really get into it and I get interactive and I'm pointing it up on the screen and then I come back In between, yes, I sit down. You know, I bring up a slide after I say my piece Sometimes maybe I could sit down and ask them what they think, comment with them and so on and talk with them. So it's a mix of both.

Speaker 2: 22:55

The only thing is that you know, with that one-on-one or the few, I think you got to play it by ear. You definitely want to get down on their level and not be standing over them all the time.

Speaker 2: 23:04

You know, obviously, if you're making a presentation and it's being projected, then yeah, you stand up and you explain something that you might sit down again. I agree with that. I also like the presentation style where you purposely don't project and let's say you had a brochure or something. You might turn it around on the table and point them and walk them through the brochure and to look at certain things. I like that because it's a good focal point where you can direct their eyes and their thinking and walk them through something. I like that as well. But I'll be honest with you for sure, the bigger the room, the bigger the audience, the bigger the presentation. You have to do it in order to connect with the entire group and give them something to focus on.

Speaker 2: 23:55

Yes, and for sure you know situations that are very difficult for me to present is where I have a very large group and I can't see the people right For some reason, either blaring lights in my eyes, I can't see the audience or, let's say, it's a Zoom call and nobody's putting on their webcams. That's just a really big agenda. It's just the Georgia-Live monologue and that's just difficult to carry on for a long period of time.

Speaker 1: 24:32

Now a dozen people in a conference room I make eye contact with while I'm presenting. You know like I circulate around people Make an eye contact. Big room, 1,500 people. What's your thoughts on eye contact then, connecting with the people?

Speaker 2: 24:56

I definitely am doing it. I'm finding people in the audience.

Speaker 1: 25:00

I am presenting to them.

Speaker 2: 25:04

I'm gauging their eyes, their body language. Are they leaning forward, are they snoring, are they on their phone? And I'm gauging my reaction of what I do, based off of the consensus of the group. I need to be in tune with the group and to that extent, your body language and the way you present yourself matters. Right. You move around? Are you standing with confidence? Are you making eye contact? Are you smiling, are you?

Speaker 2: 25:33

into the presentation, because your emotions and the way you exude those emotions through your facial expressions and your body language will actually help the audience react and feel the same way that you do so if you're bored in your presentation chances are. The audience is bored right.

Speaker 1: 25:56

You'll get a workflow.

Speaker 2: 25:57

If you're excited yeah, it's true If you're excited and happy and you're smiling and you're making eye contact and you exude that confidence the audience feels it. It really sets the mood for the room.

Speaker 1: 26:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What other points can you think about between both scenarios?

Speaker 2: 26:16

So let me bring this other thing that I couldn't help thinking about, because you said a conference room with maybe a dozen people. One of the things that happens in those sorts of groups is you'll end up with one or two people that might be the most senior people in the room. I might start trying to figure that out quickly, like who are the leaders in the room, and be extra attentive to them or defer to them, because the body language or the other people in the room are going to show who's the real leader there.

Speaker 2: 26:52

So you have to pick up on other people's body language Also. This might be a minor point here, but pointing right. So if somebody asks a question, pointing at them with your index finger I think it's a big novice move. Don't point at people. It's a lot of people get bothered by it. I do like you can sort of use your entire hand, not by your index finger, but your entire hand Thumb up, you say, oh please, you know, like, and invite them.

Speaker 2: 27:25

You can maybe make the motion for them to like oh, please, say something. The other one that I like sometimes and you can watch follow just to do it. They kind of make a close, a slightly loosely closed fist and they kind of point with their thumb and I think that's that's a pretty nifty trick.

Speaker 2: 27:47

Yeah, it's really nice, but what you do with your hands and gestures like that make a big difference. I would say that if you're at the conference table let's say an interview where it's inappropriate to stand up and walk around the room, you're not presenting your interviewing. I would say there are certain power positions that you can put your hands in. For instance, you can connect all your fingers and thumb together with your palms apart, maybe not quite with your elbows on the table, but you know, maybe in a way, if you're trying to make a point, that's a very strong position. Definitely don't hide your hands underneath the table, Right? I think that's a big no-no in an interview. You want your hands cleanly visible. It's a good idea to take notes at your own interview, right of things that they're saying. So a pen and hand and a pad of paper, I think, is a good posture position to be in Again with your back straight, trying to make eye contact as much as possible, Smiling right. Things like that really make a difference.

Speaker 1: 28:55

Agreed. And you know what other point I'm going to take this from a different angle that I want to bring up to the listeners. You do not have to be a very outgoing, super sociable person to be good at presentations. There are a lot of great, great speakers that existed over history, believe it or not, that were very introverted, very, not too sociable, but they gave amazing speeches and amazing presentations. And you can actually sometimes, if you watch on YouTube some speakers, some people that talk, you could see the transformation that happens on their face when they get up on stage, from being their self to being the presenter, the one giving the speech right. Sometimes they go through that mental transformation, a switch that they click to start being in that presentation mode.

Speaker 1: 30:03

My point is it is something that you can practice. It doesn't mean you have to change your whole personality. Might take a little bit more work, but it can be done right. It's just like practicing how to swim, riding a bike, how to do other things. You can practice becoming more seasoned at giving speeches or presenting. You just have to really think about it.

Speaker 2: 30:30

So, mo, I completely agree with you, but I do think it gets better with practice. And I guess, of course being good speakers necessarily something you're born with.

Speaker 2: 30:43

I mean, certainly some people are a bit more outgoing and they have the encouragement from the time they were a little maybe, and it really helped them along. I would say a good thing to do is, now that we have cell phones and stuff all around, make yourself present for a couple of minutes and record yourself on the iPhone and watch it. You'll see things to make yourself better, like I'll tell you, a key thing I tell people all the time when they're presenting is I'm like oh, take your hands out of your pocket, right?

Speaker 2: 31:12

The worst thing you could do is to have your keys or something in your pocket and right on around, you're actually showing the audience that you're more interested in what's in your pocket than talking to them. So I would say and if you have problems making big hand gestures, you know what Hands at your side is perfectly fine, stand there with confidence, it's perfectly fine. I like to move around, but shifting back and forth never shifting back and forth doesn't help, right? So if your default isn't to walk around, then just plant your feet, don't lock your knees. Just stand with some confidence back, straight hands at their side and talk. It's perfectly fine to present that way and in fact a lot of people prefer it. So I know I walk around and you said you walk around.

Speaker 1: 32:09

Just in terms of audience.

Speaker 2: 32:11

Some people that are hard of hearing and need to see your face would prefer it if you didn't walk around. I'm just saying it's just a consideration. Stand there with confidence at your side and make sure you are fit in the audience all the time, because if somebody is hard of hearing, they can't see your face. They're not going to understand what you're saying.

Speaker 1: 32:34

And don't look at your wristwatch. If somebody is asking you a question or talking to you, try to avoid looking, unless I need huh.

Speaker 2: 32:44

Unless I ask you what time it is, and then it's okay.

Speaker 1: 32:46

I was just going to say that, or if I really do sincerely need to know how much time I have left. And I'm going to look at my watch. I say that's the reason why I'm looking. So how much time do we have left? Am I running over the time scheduled? So you have to show your intention while you're looking at your watch. We all know what happened with George Bush during the debate. When he looked at his watch. It was his kiss of death. So just always remember that. Do not look at the watch when you're, especially if someone's asking you.

Speaker 2: 33:18

So one more thing I wanted to bring up. If you talked a lot about presentation, I want to go back to the interview or the one on one, or even like the networking event. Something that you can do and again body language wise is you can mirror the other people's body language. Sometimes that works very well. If they have a certain hand position, you can mirror. As long as it's appropriate, of course. Right, you can mirror their position. It's a way of building rapport. Your minimum gain how they sit, are their legs crossed? Well, if it's appropriate, maybe you can cross your legs too. Or if they're leaning towards you, lean a little bit towards them or lean a little forward. They'll lean a little forward. If you can get into this little thing where you're mimicking each other's posture, then you've built a lot of rapport and it's almost like a mini team building.

Speaker 1: 34:21

Nice, good point. Good point, george. Yeah, I think that does make some people connect well with others too. It's a good point. Great man, this was a really good discussion. Do you have anything else you want to add?

Speaker 2: 34:36

No, I think we could probably go on with posture and facial expressions and biolinguage forever and ever. I think we did a pretty good job here at Back to Basics.

Speaker 1: 34:51

Yeah, no. So that's good man. Oh yeah, no, this was a good discussion and I enjoyed it. I took a lot of some takeaways out of it, some good takeaways. So yeah, great. No, I don't think I have anything else to add.

Speaker 2: 35:07

So well, why don't we wrap this up and I think this is going to be our last podcast for this semester.

Speaker 1: 35:15

For this year, probably yeah.

Speaker 2: 35:17

Yeah, for this year. We'll kick it off again in January.

Speaker 1: 35:21

Great All right.

Speaker 2: 35:24

So anyway, thank you all for listening to this episode of Back to Basics on the Business Edge, brought to you by Feliciano School of Business at Montclair State University. We hope you enjoyed this podcast and welcome any feedback you have for us, including suggestions for future topics.

Speaker 1: 35:43

Thank you, george, thank you listeners. I wish everybody a nice and healthy and happy holiday season and we will circle back with you in January. Take care everyone Same here. Thanks Mel, thanks George, take care buddy, bye, bye, bye, bye.