Kick Off Your Damn Heels: How To Kick Anxiety & Live A Badass Life!

Jessica Cline, Divorce

November 19, 2019
Kick Off Your Damn Heels: How To Kick Anxiety & Live A Badass Life!
Jessica Cline, Divorce
Chapters
Kick Off Your Damn Heels: How To Kick Anxiety & Live A Badass Life!
Jessica Cline, Divorce
Nov 19, 2019
Show Notes Transcript

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Speaker 1:
0:01
Welcome to kick off your damn heels. Are you sick and tired of getting bad advice about anxiety? Does it piss you off when people talk about anxiety as something you must claim or just live with forever? All of that crappy advice ends right now. Are you ready? Because we're ready. It's time to get down and dirty and kicking anxiety to the curb so you can live a badass life. Welcome to the podcast with guts. And now here's your host, Dr Tara Lynn
Speaker 2:
0:37
[inaudible].
Speaker 3:
0:39
Hey everyone and welcome back to another episode of kickoff your damn heels. I am Dr Tara Lynn, anxiety Tamer food shrink and oil aficionado. You can check me out@drtaralynn.com and I have a special guest, Jessica Klein and Jessica is a divorce therapist and coach. And the reason why I have her on is because I do marriage therapy. So doing divorce therapy and coaching is quite different, but an extremely necessary component because not all marriages work and we would like to end them, I would guess more amicably. Correct. All right, so go ahead and take a minute Jessica and introduce, introduce yourself. Let everyone know what you do and we'll get started with this. Very important conversation. Perfect. So
Speaker 4:
1:30
I'm Jessica. I am a psychotherapist. I'm a licensed clinical social worker, if anyone really cares about that. Um, I have been in the field for about five years, about 10 years working with women. Um, and I have transitioned into working with women that are divorced or separated or have had a significant breakup, so like a long term relationship. Um, and I work with, uh, the collaborative collaborative divorce council here in Wisconsin. And then, um, I'm also trained as a mediator. I think that helps out a little bit in our sessions and then some discernment counseling training as well. So really, um, it's from, you know, seeing women from that decision point of like, I think that it's time for me to leave my marriage and then, you know, seeing them through the transformation of what that will look like. And I started in a weird way, like I started, you know, therapy and I was like, I'm going to be a child, you know, having to work with children and settle on playing games.
Speaker 4:
2:30
And then, um, and I, I worked in community mental health, so I saw everyone, but then after awhile I kept getting like people with really ex significant diagnoses, like we're talking conversion disorder. Um, so it would look like they were having a stroke. They would not have control over that. Um, and as I was referred, these people we explored in their marriages were incredibly unhealthy, volatile and abusive. Um, so I became known as the divorce because people were coming to me married and they were leaving divorce and, but I'm not sure if that's good or bad right now. Right. When I see that people are like, oh, I don't know if I want to see her then okay. I just want to say that I of course also some people that, you know, we, you know, worked on their relationship and they need married. But for some people it was like, you know, they're suicidal and it's kind of like, as we explored that, well then they are living with an abuser and they're wanting to end their life.
Speaker 4:
3:27
So, um, you know, it was actually a good thing that they left their spouses because, um, they were leaving some really unhealthy marriages. So I was really close with a psychiatrist and he would send me people and you know, like, we need to have fun in, in therapy and I would be like, is this a couple that you want divorce or is this a couple of you want to stay together? Um, so I really became known as a divorce therapist and then, um, I relocated and then I went through my own divorce as well. So, um, and, and it was a challenge to do that really amicably, but that's kind of my philosophy is trying to do it as collaboratively as possible. Get as many professionals that you need to help facilitate that. Um, because collaborative divorces, um, you know, down the road 10 years later, they always show that those people are happier that have engaged in that process.
Speaker 3:
4:20
That's interesting. I didn't know that that was even a statistic. It's such a new thing. I actually did training in collaborative, collaborative divorce. Yeah. In mediation as well because I thought for sure I was going to end up being a mediator, you know, and I think we are right. You know? Right. So the whole collaborative divorce is a relatively new thing. And, um, I think most people look at it from the standpoint of attorneys, you know, we, we weren't collaborative attorneys, but just so anyone who's listening, there's a whole team and collaborative divorce, you know. Um, so having a divorce coach can be a very vital part of the team. Right. You just curiously, do you work with people trying to figure out if they should divorce or is it mostly after? Okay.
Speaker 4:
5:06
Um, some people are in that separation area, um, where they might have made that disorder decision to separate and we kind of figure out what, you know, is this, um, you know, a marriage that you can repair or is this something that, you know, you're, you're leaving. And then, um, for some people, you know, we are at the point of, you know, like I do a lot of articles about, um, emotional abuse and you know, what abuse looks like in a longterm relationship. So I get a lot of people coming to me and they're like, well, I didn't even realize I was being abused. You know, my partner is using substances and I'm, you know, I would like to divorce them, but I'm staying because I'm afraid they're going to do something. And then like, so here they've kind of, you know, almost been a prisoner in their marriage and tiptoed around this stuff, so it's never, never been healed. It's kind of like, I'm just going to stay in this. Yeah. Yuckiness as the fear of rocking the boat and then we, we kind of process that. So, um, you know, some decides, you know, they are gonna stay cause that's their choice. And some decide, you know, like, this isn't my best, you know, life for me and my, my children.
Speaker 3:
6:18
Yeah. I in the interesting part, and I think we should talk about this as the whole mental health,
Speaker 4:
6:24
um,
Speaker 3:
6:26
play I guess, or interchange that happens when you're in a relationship that you know you shouldn't be in or that is causing you more trauma and how you carry that trauma with you and on your body. You had mentioned conversion disorders. So can you talk about what that is for the lay person please?
Speaker 4:
6:44
Yeah, so conversion disorder, um, is really a Trump trauma response. Um, and, and it literally looks like someone is having a stroke. The what, you know what the person that I worked with, you know, would actually become paralyzed in my office as we processed some of these things. Um, they, this was showing up in their job. Um, they had been going to doctors for years because, you know, they thought it was a heart problem. They thought it was a stroke. They thought it was, you know, this and that, and then
Speaker 3:
7:14
a nervous system issue. Like anything, well, it is a nervous system issue actually.
Speaker 4:
7:20
Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, a lot of doctors aren't even aware of it. And that's not where they, you know, their brain goes, um, and about six years into it, then it's kind of like, it's psychological. Um, you know, it kind of, it seems to take that long for them to kind of pinpoint that medical stuff is not addressed in it. Um, so, you know, those people are, I mean those are extreme mental health disorders that your body is completely shutting down in that way to protect your brain from something that, um, uh, trauma that you're experiencing. Um, and often I always say it's kind of like the roots of a tree when we pull it up, like we don't even realize how far they go down. Um, so then a current marriage problem is really, um, kind of mirroring what happened in the childhood.
Speaker 4:
8:04
And so we've got trauma going on for, you know, 40 years at that point. Um, this been ignored. Um, and then that's why the body can't respond in any way. And those people are often on, um, you know, like it in other things. I'll get the brain and so then they can't even process anything. So there's no way that they're ever, um, going to be able to even, um, heal from that. So then, you know, for that particular person, I placed them in a facility that I was able to go to, um, and, and do a med wash. And, you know, the staff knew, you know, when she was having an episode, she wasn't going to die from it. It wasn't truly a stroke. Um, so they had to learn the discomfort of taking care of someone that had that experience. Um, and then this person was able, you know, within a few months, um, to almost have no episodes in their life. And we're talking about almost entirely throughout their day that they were having those. Um, and, and really they had a really wonderful recovery. Um, once we really were able to dig deep into what the trauma actually was, because all those medications were, uh, deadening everything. And so we couldn't touch anything at that point.
Speaker 3:
9:20
Right. And it's funny because that's kind of the message that I have with a lot of things is medications help when they help and they hurt when they hurt. And you need to know the difference or when it's gone too long. And when I think about people who have been on different medications, I'm constantly changing medications, stacking medications and um, increasing, um, dosaging and things like that. Like you probably should look a little bit deeper into what's happening, you know? Um, so I, I look at things like, uh, especially with marriages and relationships, like accept it, change it or leave it. [inaudible] and a lot of people don't want to really explore the idea of leaving it, you know, um, they want to do, I guess maybe cross all the t's. Dot. All the i's turn over every stone before they make that decision to leave something. Um, can you offer, and you don't know, I'm going to ask you this, but can you offer a little insight as to why it's so difficult to leave a relationship that, um, is causing you trauma? [inaudible]
Speaker 4:
10:23
well, I think it's absolutely fear-based. Um, because you know what you don't know, you don't know. So it's actually scarier to think about what the outside world is going to be like and being independent than to live with someone that is, you know, um, you know, putting you in a relationship that is creating trauma. Um, so part of that is, is really, it's easier to stay. It's kind of like when you live in a, in a really bad apartment and you know, you want to leave, but moving is a real pain in the butt. So you let your lease from new and you'll and it, you just are, you're stuck. Your identity is the stuckness then. So to think about leaving is really difficult. And then there's, when we look at time and investments, so, um, it's, it's the same as when you go to the grocery store and you're standing in the checkout line and your line isn't moving, but you know, the other ones are, and you think about moving and then you're like, I put it up this much time to this line.
Speaker 4:
11:17
I have to stay on this line. That's the same as, yeah, it's like investments. It's like relationships. So there's this feeling I put four years into this relationship, I can stick it out another year cause it's gonna get better. Those are the things that we tell ourselves in those situations. Um, so it's all about, it's also part of that investment theory, uh, theory of time in regards to that. So, you know, of course it's, it's we think that we can repair someone, you know, in some way or it will get better. Um, even though we are denying, you know, we're, you know, there are choices, you know, accept it. Um, ignore it, change it, leave it. Um, and most people are living in the ignore. Um, yeah, acceptance, you know, means like I, I accept this as it is. Ignore means I'm like not even going to deal with it really.
Speaker 4:
12:10
So most people, that's when it shows up as a mental health issue, trauma, anxiety, depression, whatever. That's when it shows up there is when you're ignoring it. Yeah, exactly. And that's a sign, hey, you're not living your life the way you're supposed to be living in and now you're not doing well. Depression, anxiety, I mean all the way to the rise of conversion disorder, health issues, constant stress, no sleep, insomnia, weight gain. We're looking at, you know, so many things all the time. Yeah, exactly. And then we're a shell of who we were meant to be. Um, so then, you know, I think it just, there's several layers of, of why people stay in those bad relationships. Yeah. So this is the interesting conversation because do you usually broach the topic with your clients of well maybe you should leave the relationship or do you let them get there on their own?
Speaker 4:
13:07
Um, well, I have to because I'm a therapist and because I'm also a coach, it depends on how we are working together, right? Therapist, it's more of me, um, you know, processing things with them and providing insight. Um, and, and you know, just kind of having them make their own decisions. And as a coach, I'm a little bit more forward. Like, you know, hey, this is going on and this, these are the signs that this isn't healthy for you. What is the barrier to leaving this relationship? Because likely it's not going to change. Um, so I'm more forward as a coach than I am as a therapist. See, we were talking about this off air just a little bit, the difference between being a therapist and being a coach. And maybe we should segue into that for a second. Yeah. So you know, it's, it's fascinating cause I'm like, Oh wow, I'm going to say this and the coach or the therapist world is going to like throw daggers at me.
Speaker 4:
14:08
Sometimes being a therapist is bullshit and you know, only in the fact that it's hard to see something happening and not be as forward about what's happening, you know, um, to be able to just be real with somebody sometimes, you know, instead of processing and allowing them to get there, they may never get there. And you know, it's the forest through the trees, right. The, the, you're standing out here, you can see it all. But you know, as a therapist you might not be able to say it like that. Right. How do you, how do you, um, I don't know, what do you think are the advantages and disadvantages as being a therapist versus a coach? Especially when it comes divorce?
Speaker 3:
14:53
So I think that, um, you know, some people are, are leaning on therapy because they want to treat depression and anxiety, um, and they are hoping to use their, your, their insurance benefits as well. Um, so I think that people have this feeling like therapy is for people that really have, um, or are mentally have mental illness, um, they're not mentally well. So it's kind of like, I'm gonna go to a therapist because I'm at my worst. And then I think the contrary to that is this feeling like I'm going to go do a coach because I want to change something in the future. You know, like it hasn't escalated to this point where I'm really unwell. Um, so I want to go there. So I think that in therapy, um, there's this divide of like where people kind of like a road where at like, oh, I don't, are they called y?
Speaker 3:
15:43
No, that's a wide turn, but it's a road. Um, and then you're going the road said yes, and then you go one way or you go the other way. Um, so I think that there's just kind of this perception in society that that's kind of how you utilize those services is when you're really unwell, you go to this therapist and when you just want to change your life, you'd go to a coach. Right? And I do want to say like, um, because I do a lot of couples work, um, I'm just throwing that out there for anyone. I don't charge insurance for that. Um, because typically right, they're not coming in because of a mental health issue and well, they might be, you know, but then you should be dealing with your mental health issue, you know? But it's very fascinating because people are very quick to be like, well, I'm on an antidepressant, can't you use that?
Speaker 3:
16:28
And my point I always say is sure, if we want to build every session around depression in you, I won't gladly use that. And your spouse can sit next to you. You know, while we do that, you know, and it's, it's very interesting because a lot of therapists will manipulate the insurance thing, um, to be able to take insurance to work with a couple. And I'm crystal clear on, on that, unless it is truly a mental health issue that we need to work on with a couple, you know, which, which is rare, you know, usually it's uh, you know, they, they always classify it in communication or something like that. Like 99% of my couples come in and say the problem is communication. I don't know. Usually it's history. I don't know. Usually it's childhood. I don't know. Like there's, there's a lot of lot of stuff in there, but it's just a very interesting, um, I don't know.
Speaker 3:
17:25
It's an interesting dynamic and people should know, you know, risks and benefits of using insurance and also why using a coach would be extremely beneficial, especially in the breakup process. I had another therapist on who is, um, known as the breakup artist actually, and he's out of Chicago and you guys should listen to the podcast with Josh waters. Um, but he is fascinating too because he is all about, you know, the breakup process itself, you know, um, so there is definitely a need for this and so many people are stuck right in the middle of should I or shouldn't die and the risks and the benefits and things like that or just being stuck all together, you know, what is your, what is your best message for somebody who totally just feels stuck and unable to make that change? What, what message do you have for them?
Speaker 4:
18:19
The message I would have for someone in that, um, place would be really to look for help in that. And oftentimes people are going to friends and family for advice and their motive is different. So sometimes having, um, you know, a, a therapist or a coach that can really help you process that, um, and allow you to kind of reduce the fear to see or see what the outcome truly could be so that you actually get to take, you know, and, and change your life. Um, that's kind of the message I have for that. I think that there is nothing wrong with needing support to do this, but I do think that people think that there is something wrong with that. Um, and then because many times when people are the lever, um, of something traumatic, they are bringing with them a ton of guilt, even if the relationship was incredibly unhealthy.
Speaker 4:
19:14
Um, and even if it gets really nasty, I see this in divorces all the time. There's still so much guilt because they made the choice to leave. And I really want those people to just get the support that they need in that process because on the other end of it, there's a beautiful transformation that happens. And for people that don't receive the support, I often see them struggle for years, you know, five years after a separation and divorce. Um, when they didn't get the support that they needed, um, there still five years, you know, holding onto this divorce and pulling them w pulling it with them, whereas people that are working with someone, you know, one to three years, they have a completely different life and it looks really wonderful.
Speaker 3:
19:55
Yeah. I, as you were talking, I was thinking of, there's a book called the compound effect. Have you read it? Oh, thanks. So it's a pretty good one. I'm talking about how little things that you do add up to something big, whether it's negative or positive, right? So if I ate a cake every single day for a year, the the outcome really bad, you know, versus if I walked for 20 minutes every day for a year or the outcome would be very positive. Um, they go a little bit deeper and they talk about like, um, responsibility in relationships. It's not really a relationship book. Everyone is just kind of a, I don't know, like a life guideline book. Um, and it asks like, who has, who has responsibility in the relationship to make the relationship work? And I usually ask my couples this and the majority of the time, of course I get the standard 50, 50, right?
Speaker 3:
20:50
It's half your responsibility and half mine. And really the truth is 100% 100% like you have to put in 100% into yourself so that you can give 100% to the relationship. Right. And that's not a finger-pointing thing. That's just a, did I do me 100% no. Did you do you 100% right. You know, um, because there's this idea and I've thought about this a lot with couples, everybody wants to find or point the finger at the other person. Nobody wants to be the blame the fault, right? Like the bad guy or the bad person that ended the family, right. Nobody, nobody wants that role. And I keep saying, why does there have to be that role? I don't get it. Like why does somebody have to be bad or do something wrong or something big? You know what I mean? Like have the affair use drugs and alcohol. Like if it's not big, this is what I get a lot too. People are like, well, they didn't really do anything. And I'm like, so you're going to wait until they do like what, you know, why do we have to wait for a hurricane? You're not going to sit and wait for it to come. You know, you're going to get outta there. Right. So what, what do you say to people who want to point the finger and wait for someone to be the bad guy? Anything?
Speaker 4:
22:08
Well, I always say that relationships and marriages are incredibly complex. Like we like to simplify these things and I think blame is simplified. So, you know, there's this like, I wanna make it okay and I want to point out what someone else did. And one of I'm in the collaborative process that this a no go, we just don't go there because that's not going to be collaborative. Then it's going to be the blame game. Um, and, and that's not, you know, when they come in for the collaborative process, that's what they want. And so I have to guide them to stay in that frame of mind. So really we're working on, you know, that's, you know, the, the blame isn't the reason, you know, that we're here. It's because the marriage didn't work. Um, and both people are at play in that often. Um, and really, you know, it's, it's not conducive to moving forward.
Speaker 4:
22:58
So I really stopped him in that and we really kind of, so my theory is always reset, rebuild and then rewrite your story. So resetting is, is, uh, something I do often with people is like, Hey, let's, you know, remember what you came for. Like, so let's, uh, the negative thoughts or the blame or the talking badly about someone. No one is a victim in, you know, the, the membership that I work with, um, because that just puts everyone down a notch and we're all empowered and we're all, you know, no matter what someone did or really moving forward and that stuff isn't going to position us to move forward. So that's kind of how I treat the blame.
Speaker 3:
23:40
All right. So let's talk about what you offer and can you, um, you said you have a membership site or something
Speaker 4:
23:46
that you're working on. So why don't you share what that is and let people know where they can find it. And just so you guys know it all be in the show notes as well, where you can find this information to work with Jessica or to just be around like minded people or people going through something similar as you. So what, what can they work? Can they find you? Sure. So I um, last year started to do a support group online, but I had found that, you know, with people divorcing, they have so much stuff going on in their life that they can't necessarily be there Tuesday at such and such time for a video call all the time. Um, so what I moved to was a support club. Um, so it's a divorce, separation support club and um, you know, there's like monthly content that we work on stuff we have frequently asked questions hour and then we have like a coaching hour.
Speaker 4:
24:36
Um, so I have that option available because I really wanted to make a resource available to people, um, that was truly affordable, that they could work it around their time cause they got kids and they got all this other responsibilities. Um, and, and really, you know, provide them with a supportive tribe of people that are all kind of working through the same stuff. Not everyone's story is the same, but we're all kind of on the journey together. So that is, you know, one of my biggest things that I'm working on right now and that's just launching right now. So you can find that at my website, www.jesskleinwithac.com/membership. Um, you can find that in the show notes though. Otherwise it's [inaudible] dot slash slash way. Sometimes I miss type it, even myself, I cannot be relied on to give proper, we won't, we'll just put it, we'll put the link right in.
Speaker 4:
25:29
Then you don't have to worry about that individual work as well. So therapy in the, in the states that I'm licensed in, but then I do online coaching all over. Um, I see people in France, I see people just anywhere that they roam because I myself am a roamer. So in the summer I, I'll be traveling but you still have access to me because I can do video stuff. So that's really awesome. Yeah. Um, I do some discernment stuff. Um, it's not really, can you, could you describe what discernment is for people please? Yeah, so discernment is kind of a couple that is ambivalent about where they want to go. Um, one maybe wants to leave and one wants to repair, but we know how that works, you know, if one is, is set on leaving. Um, so discernment counseling is really five or less sessions where you come together and you decide, you know, is this something that you can work on or is this something that you both can agree to leave.
Speaker 4:
26:28
And it really sets things up to kind of move into the collaborative process when there is an ability to have that. Otherwise we know what happens when they don't have that process. Ambivalent person kind of gets to a point where they have to do something drastic in order to get the relationship to end. And I see a lot of infidelity in those, those type of dynamics. Um, so discernment is really just, um, you know, each person has their time to really explore the relationship and whether it can be repaired or, you know, is it time to, uh, move towards a separation and what would that look like? And then if it Wa if both parties are, are willing to repair, then I would send that on to a really wonderful couples, therapists, um, that can help them repair that. And if they're, if they've decided to part ways, then we can do it amicably, then I will, you know, s set them up with my wonderful resources from the collaborative law council. Um, and then, you know, that's kind of what just certain that looks like. All right, cool. Okay. Everyone. So we know that bad relationships can cause more mental health issues if you're struggling with a bad relationship and you would like to learn if you should stay there, repair there or leave there. Give Jessica call. All right, so thank you so much for coming on. All of her information are going to be in the show notes and um, wait for your next episode of kickoff your damn heels. Bye.
Speaker 3:
27:59
I really hope you loved this episode as much as I did. Please subscribe to this podcast and leave a review. Basically wherever your favorite place to listen to the podcast is and don't forget to head over to kickoff your damn heels.com for information about my book, my private Facebook page, and for more free bonus content. See you next time.
Speaker 1:
28:24
Thanks for listening to kickoff your damn heels with Dr Tara Lynn. If you're wanting more badass information, head over to www.kickoffyourdamnheels.com damn heels podcast is for entertainment purposes and does not replace your relationship with a primary healthcare provider or mental health professional. If you think you may have a medical or mental health emergency, call your doctor, go to the emergency department or call nine one one immediately. We're not entering into a therapeutic or physical doctor patient relationship of any kind and nothing on this podcast website or associated content should be considered a medical advice. The information provided by in kickoff, you're at Dan heals, including, but not limited to audio, text graphics, images, and other material are for informational purposes only.
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