Join Kelly and Tiffany as they chat about some lesser known birth interventions and the importance of physiological birth experiences.
00:00 Introduction
21:32 Who You Invite to Your Birth
30:20 The Power of Words
33:22 Creating a Sacred Space
Links to all the extra good stuff:
Beautiful One Free Resources: HERE
Natural Birth Foundations Freebie: HERE
Things you can Decline Freebie: HERE
Join our email community: HERE
Submit your answer-on-the-show questions: HERE
Join Kelly and Tiffany as they chat about some lesser known birth interventions and the importance of physiological birth experiences.
00:00 Introduction
21:32 Who You Invite to Your Birth
30:20 The Power of Words
33:22 Creating a Sacred Space
Links to all the extra good stuff:
Beautiful One Free Resources: HERE
Natural Birth Foundations Freebie: HERE
Things you can Decline Freebie: HERE
Join our email community: HERE
Submit your answer-on-the-show questions: HERE
Welcome to At Home with Kelly and Tiffany, where naturally minded women gather together as we pursue simplicity and confidence in health alternatives, so we can show up better in our busy lives and feel more at home in our bodies. Join your favorite home birth midwife duo for conversation, candor, and community. Welcome back to at home with Kelly and Tiffany. I am Kelly and I'm Tiffany. And I know a few episodes back, we were talking ever so peacefully and graciously about how the podcast gets introduced. Very gracious on my part for sure. And I'm in the car recently. My kids were actually arguing about what goes first. Is it Kelly and Tiffany or Tiffany and Kelly. And I'm like, let me tell you, I know for sure. Without a doubt. We've beaten this one down. It's Tiffany and Kelly. How did, when did your girls say will, because they're so used to being surrounded by our content constantly, either hearing audio, play, or hearing or reading, you know, transcripts of things or seeing graphics or whatever. That Roslyn, my oldest. She was like, I've heard you say Tiffany and Kelly before. I know I've heard you say it. And I was like, yeah, one time, one time. I said it that way. I am sorry, but it stuck with them. It's Kelly and Devaney. Yep. Yeah, it is. And she was like, why does Kelly get to covert? We went through the whole thing. And you're like, cause Kelly is so demanding. She said, is it because Kelly's older and she needs to have this thing. So thinks. Thanks Roslyn the senior respect. First, well, then we got into a whole conversation of like, why you say. The man's name first. And a family and. Y you do the oldest children. It just, it's just, it doesn't, it doesn't really matter, but it's just a system everyone agrees on and that's how we make it all make sense. So. My name comes first because I'm old. ER. That's my takeaway. Okay. Older. Well, you know, it's hard, hard won victory for me. And here you are. Just in the piece of it. Yeah. Absolute peace. Today, we're talking about lesser known birth interventions. Yeah, we, I love this topic because we always hear about like, oh, trying to avoid the interventions, right. Trying to avoid like medications or big things that are like going to derail what you are trying to do with your birth. But there are some like little sneaky things that can pop up in. Pregnancy and labor and birth that are for sure. Interventions that you might not think are interventions, right? And so like from the perspective of physiological birth, which is our preferred method of. Perspective. Perspective having method. If you look at what the body does well on its own, then. If you consider all the things that could potentially interrupt that you will have a long, long list of many things that could interrupt the physiological experience. So if we only focus on things that interrupt the. Medical experience or the physical experience or the adorable birth. Plan. Itinerary. Then that's, we're missing a piece there. We're not looking deeper at what, what your body is actually trying to do for you hormonally. Yeah, for sure. Excited to jump into that. All right, before we get started. I want to answer a question that we get in our membership a lot. Or maybe I'll make you answer it. Okay. Okay. Here it is putting me on the spot. Yeah. Okay. So, is this safe for pregnancy? Is this safe for breastfeeding? Is this recommendation. Okay. For pregnancy and breastfeeding, is this supplement okay. For someone who's trying to get pregnant? Is this herb safe for breastfeeding. If we ever make any recommendation on almost anything we can. Basically guarantee we will get this question. And also somebody would beg to provide the solution to that is just always disclose what is safe for pregnancy and what is safe for breastfeeding. However, it's not quite that simple. Why is it complicated? Well, unfortunately, there's, there's not a ton of research on a ton of things for this season of life in particular, when it talks about things that we generally recommend in terms of like herbs. Supplements, homeopathics, those types of things. There's not a ton of, you know, Like strong research that people can point to and say, see, this has clearly been shown to be safe. There's research showing like, oh, we don't, we don't really know. Or there wasn't harm. Or you can also, even if you just Google you'll, the first page will come up of. 10 different people saying 10 separate things about the same exact herb or something. So I understand. It is confusing. Totally. So you guys know us that. Unfortunately, it doesn't get to just meet this black and white. Yes or no, because we take an individualized approach to everything. So the answer is usually. Let's look at the, let's look at the information. This is what makes us think it might be safe. This is why it's controversial. You get to decide now how much of that risk that you want to take on. And unfortunately, we live in a society where everybody just wants everything to be completely decided for them and completely like made up for them. And I do understand. If you don't know how to look for that information yourself, then you are overwhelmed. You're at the mercy of Google. Yeah. And I think it kind of like pulls back a little bit there too. Like a lot of people who come into our into midwifery care realize very quickly that they're like, oh, I'm in charge of making the decisions here. And that is a sense of responsibility, right. That you take on that you just don't necessarily see in other. You know, the medical model in general, it's the decision is sort of made for you or the recommendation is given to you. And so stepping out of that and into this idea of like, oh, there are potentially pros, there's potentially cons, and I'm gonna make the decision for myself and assume that responsibility. Can feel overwhelming or feel scary for people. Yeah. So for our clients, and of course, for the members inside of our community membership, we are happy to say like, oh yeah, in general, like we, we know this is controversial, but we're comfortable with our clients taking it. However, there are some areas that you can look for, reliable information about these things. Some resources and my favorite one is lacked med L a C T like lactation. N E D like medicine or medical or, you know, lacked med is a database of actual research associated with any and all. I don't know, benefits and risks and information and all of that scientifically put into categories. And so if it's a common thing you'll be able to find it on there pretty easily. And so that's where I would start, because that really does provide some scaffolding for like, well, here's some evidence that says. This is probably safe. Here's a little bit of evidence that says when we studied this on rats, there were adverse outcomes. But we actually have zero reported cases of that ever happening in humans. So therefore proceed with caution. So then you start to, you start to digest some of that information yourself and decide what risk you're willing to take, because nothing is nothing is completely safe and without risk, unfortunately. Yeah, for sure. That's a great option because there's both like, allopathic and naturopathic, like options as you're searching on there. I mean, you can search something like Tylenol. Or something like. I don't know. Motherwort tincture. Right? And so then you're like, oh, this is, it's a, it's a great database. There's an app for it too. Another great one, just to kind of look at general feedback and like pulled together research and recommendations is Kelly mom.com. So Kelly, like my name of, at home with Kelly, Tiffany. Kelly mom.com. That's a great resource all around. That should be like saved somewhere in your browser. If you are. Anywhere in your mothering. I don't know journey. Yeah. They have tons of information on their site, but they also have a catalog of pregnancy and breastfeeding safety information. And that can be really helpful. Another resource is Lola chain link and they are just a world renowned, breastfeeding support organization. And they have lots of information and up-to-date stuff. And. They're pretty good about getting women pointed towards the right things. Yeah. So if you ever find yourself asking that question of yourself while you're, I don't know, at the store about to purchase something on Amazon, whatever, and you're wondering like, Ooh, actually, can I take this during pregnancy or breastfeeding? Those are great resources. Absolutely. Okay. And then I want to highlight a really cool resource on our own website. You can find it beautiful on midwifery.com and inside of the resources tab. Honor. Homepage, you can find 12 free resources. They are always there. And I'm going to tell you what they are, because if you need to click over and grab one of these. This is just free education, free information, things that we want to get into women's hands. And it is. A huge variety of education topics on all the different things that we share. Here. It goes a 30 day hormone reset, which I actually can not just only. Say it, I have to explain to you that this is an entire month. Of emails that you sign up for that automatically get into your inbox over the course of a month that teach you how to reset your hormones from home. Really cool. Next we have a postpartum planning guide. Cycle sinking roadmap. A guide to women supplements. Prenatal supplement guide. Postpartum supplement checklist. See that cycling ebook. Prep for pregnancy checklist. A natural birth foundations handbook. Birth of vision worksheet and anti-inflammatory juice recipe and a vaginal health master class. That's an entire little mini course on vaginal health that you can access for free. There's a ton on the website. But I'm really proud of the way that we named some of these things. There's like roadmaps and handbooks and guides and eBooks and checklists. I just appreciate hearing that all out where I'm like, oh, we actually didn't overlap those names too much as much as they were in my head. Yeah. It's really hard to know what to call these things. But somehow we figure it out just pure grace. Huh. What's funny though, is as we're putting those freebies on the website, we have so much content, like, so we had so many freebies at the time that we were like, we actually need to pair it down and put these here. And as we were making the membership and putting all of. Not only, you know, like the free content in the other pieces of content that we have created. I was like, man. We, we really do lean into the content creation stuff. I really enjoy that. I mean, it's one of the hugest reasons that we decided to create the membership. Because we're like, oh, clearly we have a passion for getting this information into an easily digestible form. And now we've just can't stop creating things. And so here we are, a few years later, I was just telling Kelly how I was finishing something up for the membership before she got here. And what a gift it is that we have so much content to use as a template. I don't know if anyone who's listening, does any kind of like. Graphic designer content creation. But when you have these little, these little templates, because you've created I don't know, a thousand pieces of content before you can just go back and get all of your. Branding and formatting and beautiful pieces in one place and throw something together so easily. This is just. It's a joy, the joy of my life. A hundred percent. All right. So interventions in birth are a problem for women wanting a natural birth because interventions usually cause more interventions and induction on medication, a procedure. They basically just all interrupt the physiological cascade of hormones that allow 90% or more of women. To have an undisturbed process. So what I'm saying there is that over 90% of women. Have a low risk. Care situation and, and upcoming birth that if you left it alone, it would go perfectly well by itself, which is really saying something, given the outcomes that we see overall in maternity care in our country, yes. Less than 10% of women giving birth. Require some of these interventions. Medically required of these intervention. So we need to keep that in mind, as we, like Kelly said, as we look at statistics and we look at what the majority of our bodies are able to do, there's a disparity there between what women want and the experience they want to have. And. The outcomes that they end up with. Yeah. And so that's what, we're, what if you've heard about the idea of the cascade of interventions, it really means, right? Like that you imagine a waterfall that's happening, but the waterfall doesn't just happen. Right. It starts because water starts flowing from somewhere. Right. And so that one thing even. Can just be the little first step in the journey of intervention. So if we're able to take ourselves off of that path, out of that Riverbed out. You know, and, and keep the interventions as much as possible to a minimum. The better flow that we can go with towards that 90%. But that's just not, unfortunately, just not what we are seeing. No, I mean like meddling with the natural process at all. For example. Maybe getting vaginal exams towards the end of pregnancy. Agreeing to the stretch and sweep. Going to the hospital too early. I'm calling your birth team over too soon. All of the, and those are just, those are big things. There's so many other things, right. Little micro influences. Having little interruptions like that in the natural process actually increases your chance of the big interventions, like asking for pain medication and instrumental delivery or a Syrian section. So that's a big deal, right? Especially if you are somebody who's desiring to stay away from those things, right. Who's desiring as undisturbed a birth as possible. Yes. And I want, I think the connection that I am longing to make for women is. That the outcome that you want is related to. As physiological of an experience possible. So it's me. It's potentially not even just like, here's how I want my birth to go, but it's like, if, if you want it to end like this. The most likely chance of that happening is to have that threaded throughout your entire experience. Yes, for sure. So you guys know our C-section rate in this country is 33%, which has so many women like really rethinking the entire model of care, but they're under and midwives, statistically have a C-section rate of less than 10%. So when we earned women to pick a birth location or the outcome matches their desires, that is exactly what we're talking about. So you can have an unmedicated birth in the hospital, but you will just have to fight for it. And many would argue, and I might be one of those. That a physiological birth in a hospital is actually not possible just because of the interventions that are inherently present in that setting. Yeah. So there's a, there's a difference between an unmedicated birth. You can absolutely. Of course you ended up fighting for that a lot of times. But there's a difference between an unmedicated birth, which you can have in the hospital versus a physiological birth meaning. Allowing that entire experience to unfold without messing with it. It is near impossible to actually do simply because policies, procedures. Bright lights. You know, strangers things that they have to check off the list. So it's up to the scare, anybody, but just. Stating like a foundational piece there. Yeah. Okay. So let's talk about the difference between a natural birth and a physiological birth, a little bit more so that women who are just kind of digesting that. That idea and that information for the first time, understand it a little bit better. Yeah. So I always think back to my first birth where the ha. What I really wanted out of it. Was to have an unmedicated birth. And I was like, that is what will make me feel fulfilled in this experience. Like, I, I really desire that I trust that my body can do that. Recognizing when I went into the hospital. How many things were at play that were messing with the process? Needing to have a vaginal exam. When I arrived being told not to push when I wanted to push. You know, pear, perennial, stretching while the baby is coming out, cutting the cord so quickly pulling on the placenta to get it out so quickly. All of the things right. Rubbing my baby down, putting a blanket between me and my baby, all the bright lights and the loud noises postpartum. All of those things interrupted. Whether I re I did not recognize it at the time. But all of those things interrupted the hormonal. Interplay of everything that was going on. And so once I actually saw a true physiological birth, where hands were off, lights were down, voices were quiet. Mom simply birthed her baby. I realized. Oh, that's, that's what it is. That's what we're after. And it's not just the idea of, oh, I gave birth without medication, which is a great and worthy goal. It's just so much. More of a. I guess a philosophy on both mom and providers, part that play into. Trusting the real like hormonal orchestration of birth. Yeah. And so that hormonal orchestration is primarily driven by oxytocin. And that is something that your body makes in order to. Help you to have efficient contractions and bring the baby down. And Helped to open the cervix and all of those labor progressing things. And the type of things that turn that oxytocin production off can be feeling unsafe. Having unfamiliar people around you. Having to, having to make decisions in labor or having to think through some possibilities that takes you out of that space where oxytocin can thrive and puts you in your thinking brain and having to problem solve. And so that's what that's basically what we're talking about is preserving that. Physiological experience with the hormonal cascade that is meant to progress labor. Well, Yeah. And so that's what we're getting after. When we talk about today, those lesser known birth interventions, because what can get in the way it can be really big things or it can be kind of sneakier things and things that I think aren't usually seen as interventions, but do stick themselves in between you and your physiology. Yes. You know, like as you're going about your day and making different food choices, and if you're like me, you might say. Say something like, is this food choice going to fuel me? Does this put this, this does this help me with my nutrient goals for today? Or is it neutral or worse going to set me back nutritionally? Right? That's kind of how we can approach this concept. In birth. Does what is happening in my labor hinder or help that hormone cascade. And is this supporting oxytocin or is this supporting stress hormones that interrupt oxytocin? And so. Birth interventions. Aren't always medical. Some of those common interventions are not often seen as interventions. And that's what we're going to share with you today. Yes. So first one up is who you invite. So who you invite to your birth. This is going to include who you choose as your provider, right? That is somebody that you are choosing, you're selecting them and you're inviting them into this personal space bubble of birth. Right. So they work for you, right? They are the they're, they're an invited guest. And so who else also are you bringing in? Is it your best. Friend. Is it a doula? Is it your mother-in-law who stresses you the heck out? Right? There's like a whole, you know, gamut of people that you can think about inviting, but guests in your labor space should be needed. They should be wanted by you. And they should absolutely be aligned with what your goals are, what your desires are for your labor, because a hundred percent, if they are not. That's going to throw you off at some point in your labor. Yeah. And potentially you'll overcome that. And then it won't feel like a very big deal. As long as there are not other. Whammy's coming your. Your way. Right. So I was talking with somebody on Instagram recently about this, where she was telling me like you know, who she invited to her birth and who was there. And she listed off the, the nurses. She was like, well, I didn't really invite them. And I challenged her a little bit because I said, well, in a way you did, I mean, you agreed to an environment where they were provided to you. So it's not like you're completely. Blameless, not that we need to be like assigning blame or anything, but like you, you agreed to birth in an environment where there were going to be strangers there that's, that was a part of it. So. It's not like anyone's surprised you with extra people at your birth. Yeah. And that's when I think that people don't always really think about, and sometimes they're like, oh, well, I guess it's, whoever's on call. I'm like, well, okay. That's an important thing to like, step back and really think about because I mean that certainly can be a great thing. If the person who ends up in your room is. Wonderful and aligned with you, but it is stressful when they are not. And I mean, yes, you can say, no, thank you. We want somebody else, whatever. But yet again, another intervention where you're thinking and you're feeling threatened in some way or something like that. Yep. Absolutely. And then another, the other thing on the list is if or when you leave the house, it is often said that the very first intervention at a hospital birth is when you decide to leave your house, which kind of alludes to like you're walking into an intervention cascade. And just by saying. Now I will go give birth in the hospital. Plus I think it makes a lot of women recognize that their choices as to where they plan to give birth has a huge impact on their birth story and how things unfold intervention wise. And of course home birth has a much lower rate of intervention, but also considering your timing. As you arrived to the birth center or the hospital birth, if you do need to leave your home for birth. And so kind of back to that idea of who is at your birth with you, will you have some continuity, will you have a doula who was laboring with you at home that then can help you transition into your next environment? Smoothly or can your partner paid close attention to that? Or can you have a plan? In order to make that transition a little bit smoother. Yeah. I mean, as we were both doulas before we became midwives, I would say. Oh, I didn't always have clients who an unmedicated birth was their goal, but. I would say 99% of those that I did who were birthing in a hospital were always like, just help me stay home for as long as humanly possible. Like. And of course I can't gauge that. Exactly. I can help support, you know, give some insight, but. Why did they want to stay home so long? Right. And recognizing, oh, they're more comfortable here. They recognize what they're walking into when they get there. And it decreases the potential for some of the interventions they are trying to avoid. By not spending as much time there. Yeah. There's a doctor in our community who is very well loved and because of the way that he supports vaginal birth after cesarean, and when he has these clients come to him and say like, okay, what is the best way to achieve that? He's really clear. You should hire a doula and then you need to stay home as long as possible. Because as soon as you come into this environment, I'm obligated to participate in it. And we just know that there's going to be more interventions, plus just societaly there's things stacked against you as somebody who's had a previous Syrian. And so. That always stuck with me that he was so adamant that has to be back. Clients had doulas and stayed home as long as possible. Yeah, hence I'm sure why his outcomes are actually really great. Yep. You know? Yeah, that's great. Next one on the list, any time you are touched. Right? So any touch of any kind can, it's very similar to what Tim was talking about with the food, right? Is this helping or is this like derailing what the plan was? Right. So calming safe. Like loving, gentle touch. Or right. Rushed, harsh, forceful touch. Those things can absolutely shift the way you are in your body, where you're at in your mind. So as you feel loved, you feel protected, you feel safe in your body. In labor, when that happens, that's a huge part of the vulnerability it takes to soften to open. To let your baby move down to engage kind of in that flow of. You know that hormonal orchestration, right? The flow of labor. But then on the other hand, that forceful touching. That touch that just does not feel safe in your body. And that can be anything from a grabbing of an arm to harshly, to put an IV in to the really. Rough vaginal exam, those kinds of things that forceful touching is going to restrict. We're going to go the order to swing the opposite side of the, of the pendulum there. It's going to restrict pretty much everything, right? Yeah. And we keep almost polarizing this idea of like home birth and hospital birth. However, these things can take place in any environment. And the only reason that we highlight them in that way is because in the hospital, it. It almost always is happening. Almost always. And at home, you just have a greater chance of having more support around you or having a more individualized experience or being able to say, I know exactly who's going to be there and I'm going to tell everybody. This is how I want to be touched. This is how I want to be spoken to. And then I know that for the most part, those wishes are going to be respected. But. Important to realize that there's no one setting that is completely safe from these little interruptions or interventions. Yeah. And I think it, it, we keep coming back to the idea of like who you're inviting into your labor space. Right. And some of these pieces do sort of cascade off of that big, that big decision. Yeah. And even Kelly and I, of course, we're priding ourselves in the type of care that we give that is supporting this process. And I don't know exactly. I don't have examples off the top of my head, but I know for a fact that we have accidentally inadvertently, maybe even like purposefully, but it's just what had to be done in the moment we have participated in being a part of these intervention. Sometimes there's no way that we can't in some ways, simply because. We're we're present and we're there and we are the care providers. Like there's. Most of the time we get to. You know, Engage in the way, in a way that just feels safe for everybody, but everybody's safe is different everybody's reaction and labor is different. Every situation calls for different things. And so I totally agree. While I. I would hope that it would be discussed back with us also. Certainly if you're somebody who's listening and are like, huh? Not necessarily with us, but like with your care provider or even a doula, right. We've heard people's experiences with doulas being like, oh man, It did not feel good or that was not quite right for me. And so, you know, it's just a helpful thing to remember that not everybody's perfect. Yeah, absolutely. Another thing to consider is any words that are spoken to you the same as touch, basically like words matter exactly the way that touch matters. And this can circle around to who you're inviting into this space too, and their philosophy about birth and those around you, what they subscribe to and their trust in this process will 100% come out in labor. Even if it's not in what they say, maybe it's just in their body language, what they're saying with their presence. Right. So choose this piece wisely. And I would say. I noticed this the most when we have a doula at a birth with us, that is just. So disconnected from the physiological system and just 99% of the birth she does is in this. You know, other environment with all these different pieces. That it's taught her in some ways that that is how birth has to be. And it's just tiny little things that might come out while she's supporting, you know, this client that just in the way that she words it in Justin, her suggestions. And just in this, these tiny little pieces, you can tell that she doesn't fully see what neat, how, how this particular birth needs to be supported. Yeah, for sure. And I'm sure as a doula, I probably engaged in that somewhere too. Right. And so. We can have grace with ourselves and like learning some things and being exposed to some things, but I will never forget a mother. It wasn't a mother-in-law I always bag on mother-in-law's mother-in-laws can be really wonderful. But it was a mom who, as her daughter was pushing, was like, yeah, just get mad. I get mad at your baby. Get mad at your baby. You've been through so much, just get mad and push your baby out. And I was like, well, don't get me out of your baby. Your baby's trying to work together with your baby, you know, and just being like, oh wow. That's like such a. That's such a huge, again, pendulum swing to this physiological thing. That's that's, you know, you're trying to work together with your baby to do this thing. I was like, oh, those. That was interesting. Yeah. I've heard nurses in L and D say that like, oh, you just got to get, you just got to really get mad, get mad and push I'm like, okay, I see what you're trying to do here. What you mean is this is an intense experience where she needs to dig deep. And really pull some strength. Into these pushes so that she can bring her baby here and, you know, she can do it. That's what you meant to say. That's what she meant to say. You didn't, I mean, we all need to encourage you to be angry. And that's just a lack of emotional literacy. Yes. Yes. Yes, it is. When you start thinking. Everything comes down to. Anger getting mad at your baby. Yep. Last one on our list, not the last one in any exhaustive list, by any means, but the idea of lighting. So the idea of. I suppose it's not just lighting, but lighting can be a huge part of this vibe that you're setting in your labor. And so creating a space right of calm of dim, peaceful feelings in your surroundings. Again, another piece of just feeling safe in your body. Versus right, anywhere that you just feel like, oh, this is like a sterile, bright kind of environment that may not help you feel really safe. Caveat that may make you feel really safe and that is acceptable also, but that is your own personal assessment of what feels good and right for you. So just the freedom to kind of set the tone with just peace, right? With your own. Labor space, right? With the lighting, with the music. With whatever, like textures you want, right? Like if you have a favorite blanket or pillow or whatever, those kinds of things. All just kind of sensory tools to regulate your nervous system and be able and comfortable and vulnerable enough to go inward to allow that labor flow to continue. Yeah. I mean, it all comes back to those hormonal pieces. And in general, oxytocin is going to be the highest and stress hormones. Are going to be the lowest in an environment that feels. Intimate. Private sacred, quiet, dark, small women, just instinctually seek out those places, like even so much. So that. It's really common for us to have an entire home at our disposal with our own clients and find them in the toilet closet, find them in their walk-in closet because they just need to get someplace. That feels like that. Yeah. Their own little cave. Right? So the point in sharing all of this is to remind you that you have the power here, right? And you can. You can accept that and take it back for yourself in your birth experience. Right. Helping you see that. Although there's a ton of aspects, you may not have control over in birth. That's just how birth goes. There are some choices that can be made as you are planning for your birth that have more of these types of benefits, kind of attached to them. So worthy considerations as you were making plans for. An upcoming birth experience. Yep, absolutely. And you guys heard a share earlier that there is a freebie called natural birth foundations. It helps you with these pieces. Exactly. It helps you uncover strategies for the most natural birth possible while also prompting you to communicate these things to your team. And after us personally, watching hundreds of birth unfold in every single setting with all kinds of different outcomes and all kinds of different families and desires. We have seen what works and we have seen what does not work just universally for birth. So plan ahead for some of these lesser known or, I mean, even sometimes a greater known interventions for a peaceful and uninterrupted birth by grabbing that natural birth foundations freebie again, you can find it on our resourcesPage@beautifulonemidwayfree.com. You can also find it in our show notes. Thanks for chatting with us this week, ladies. No, it was a fun one. We will catch you next Monday. Bye.