We reveal our secret weapon for staying relevant and on top of mind - email marketing. Guiding you through our strategies, we share the how-tos of weekly newsletters, maintaining an updated email list, and categorizing your audience for targeted marketing. You'll glean insights on how to handle the inevitable unsubscribes and abuse reports, and learn to navigate the delicate balance of timing your communication perfectly.
Our conversation doesn't stop there. Strap in as we explore the intriguing world of Artificial Intelligence (AI) in writing and marketing. Unravel the potential of AI as a time-saver and productivity booster, as we delve into its ethical implications and the criticality of personalizing it. Together, let's discover how AI can transform your marketing content and brand identity creation process. Remember, the future of AI is in our hands, and using it responsibly is key. So, tune in, let's unravel the future together.
This week's episode is sponsored by our friends at Retouch Up! Use the coupon code GYST10 for a special discount!
This episode was written and performed by Mary Fisk-Taylor and Kira Derryberry, produced by Kira Derryberry and edited by Joel North.
We reveal our secret weapon for staying relevant and on top of mind - email marketing. Guiding you through our strategies, we share the how-tos of weekly newsletters, maintaining an updated email list, and categorizing your audience for targeted marketing. You'll glean insights on how to handle the inevitable unsubscribes and abuse reports, and learn to navigate the delicate balance of timing your communication perfectly.
Our conversation doesn't stop there. Strap in as we explore the intriguing world of Artificial Intelligence (AI) in writing and marketing. Unravel the potential of AI as a time-saver and productivity booster, as we delve into its ethical implications and the criticality of personalizing it. Together, let's discover how AI can transform your marketing content and brand identity creation process. Remember, the future of AI is in our hands, and using it responsibly is key. So, tune in, let's unravel the future together.
This week's episode is sponsored by our friends at Retouch Up! Use the coupon code GYST10 for a special discount!
This episode was written and performed by Mary Fisk-Taylor and Kira Derryberry, produced by Kira Derryberry and edited by Joel North.
This week's episode is brought to you by our friends at retouchup. Retouchup works smarter, not harder. Welcome to Get your Shoot Together as a photographer's podcast where we discuss studio, business life and keeping it all in line. I am Kara Derryberry and I'm Mary Fishtailer. Hello Mary Fishtailer, Hello.
Speaker 2:Happy day Happy, happy dreary fall day, yeah, you know, and it's not even really fall yet, even here in Virginia Now. I was just in a beautiful state of Tennessee this past weekend and I got to see so many of our great friends. I got to see Kate and I got to see Misty and I got to see Karen and Colby and so many other amazing Tennessee PPA people and it was beautiful and I could see the hints of fall driving through the areas in Tennessee.
Speaker 1:Yes, the essence of fall.
Speaker 2:Oranges and yellows whispering about and I got to see baby Jacks. Oh baby Jacks which was fantastic so, but it was beautiful. But here in Virginia is just kind of dreary, it's not. You know, there's no fall color yet. It's still kind of muggy, warmish, even though I'm dressed in a full sweatsuit in the house.
Speaker 1:That's where it meant to.
Speaker 2:I'm like it is fall.
Speaker 1:I'm wearing a sweatshirt.
Speaker 2:I know I guys, my first one. I had a wedding last weekend, a tropical storm wedding, fantastic. That was supposed to be at this beautiful marina. That ended up being in literally a size of a gazebo, because that was the backup plan, because there's also, like this, amazing area around the marina, so if it is bad weather, you can still be covered. Well, the horizontal rain forced us into was essentially the size of a gazebo, because you couldn't even be on the overhang areas. You know what I'm saying. So then the bride message me that everyone has COVID Wonderful, fantastic.
Speaker 2:So, I am quarantining here at home today. I just found out, unfortunately. I've traveled, you know, half the south, but I'm still testing negative. So I'm going to, and Jamie is too, so I'm going to lean into that, but gosh why yeah?
Speaker 2:I mean, I know, I know I'm being I don't mean to be ungrateful, but come on, please, can we just be free of this? Can we just get it just be like yeah, I mean, you know, and it's you know. I want to say it's like the flu, but it's not, you know, it's not like the flu.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately, it's here to stay. It's that's what they say they said it's something we'll have to worry about for a long time. It is, and, and you know, kevin just went and got a booster and I got my scheduled. I got a booster, I was like shivering all night, oh, and you and I both, I mean it was right before.
Speaker 2:Singapore. Right, like I need to do that and I'm old, so I did the shingles and I just need to take a week off. I just need to find a week. The shingles I hear is brutal, awful, awful. So I've got to do it. I've got to do it. I just, I know I'm going to get sick. I know I'm going to get sick. I need a new flu shot. A new flu shot. So I need all three. And you seem to schedule it like on a Friday when I have nothing I have to do and just ready to be sick because I'm going to get the appetizer.
Speaker 1:I've got it scheduled so I can like take the day off after that and then run into the weekend. Yeah, that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to do a.
Speaker 2:Thursday or Friday, where I don't have to work and I'm not traveling or seeing people or what I, just because and maybe I won't get sick this time, maybe if I prepare I won't get, I will feel ill. So I know, guys, sorry don't mean to start off by complaining, but I just, I don't know, I feel icky too. I feel it's just like I don't know, Lots of heavy stuff happening and I'm trying to be joyful. I'm trying to be. My cup is refillable, but it's feeling kind of empty right now, to be honest.
Speaker 1:Well, well, maybe I can fill it up. How about this? Let's do it. You know, one little thing that I've been planning this week, which it's not what you think it is, because we just OK. But you know, what I really dislike doing is charging my good friends for my work, like I really I really don't like doing that and but unfortunately, like during the holidays, I can't get everybody done, I can't fit them all in and just do it for free, because my, you know, my session times really have to be for paying clients. So but they're like, but we want to do it and I'm like, I know, but so I just push them off and push them off. And so what I did this year is I sent out a doodle poll to my inner circle of girlfriends.
Speaker 2:OK.
Speaker 1:And I said, here are some potential days where we all can come hang out at the studio. It'll be chaos, we'll have drinks, I'll shoot a family photo of every one of you, you know, while you're here, and we'll hang out and have like a little little photo party and I'll give you like a couple of digital files from this and you can use it for whatever you want. Please don't try and pay me, because I don't want your money, but I do want to be able to do this for you for the holidays, so that you have a, you know like, have an image like Merry Christmas from Kira, you know, and so I'm trying to make it like, while getting it all done in one fell swoop, but also making it fun, could like a hang out with my friends, you know, and that's my plan.
Speaker 1:This year is to see if that works, because I, because I always feel so bad, because my friends always have to wait last, but also they don't pay, but also I don't want them to pay right so we're like, but we're willing to pay them like I don't want your money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, and so it's just a little my little girl group here and you know they're little kids and the dads and the biggest problem is the dads are not available because of football season. So we've been having to like schedule, which annoys the crap out of me. You know that I know, you. So, anyway, that's, that's my little, my little nugget. I will report back on how that turns out.
Speaker 1:But right now we're trying to find a day that everybody is both available and that I'm available to do it, and I don't think it'll take that long because, like I said, it's going to be everyone the same. You know, the same set the same. We're just popping in. I'm going to grab it, kind of like when we had our workshop and everybody just jumped in for pictures at the end. You know they're there, yeah, yeah we're going to do that, ok.
Speaker 2:Well, that's cool. I don't give anybody free pictures, so I don't like I don't. I mean obviously my family, so Andy, or Jessica, my Jessica, but that's it.
Speaker 1:Well, I go by the idea it's free or it's full price.
Speaker 2:Exactly. I guess I don't have any friends. I think this is what I'm realizing. No, your friends, just don't live there. Don't give me free photos.
Speaker 1:You give me plenty of free photos, plenty of free, nice, wonderful.
Speaker 2:I, yeah, I just I was just thinking, huh, I don't even think I have anybody to invite. How sad for me to live all over the country. They actually do, this is true, but yeah, that's so OK.
Speaker 1:And I know for a fact of Katie needed a senior portrait. You wouldn't for a second be like of course no, Terry, give me a full price. No, no, no.
Speaker 2:She. We always do Katie at Thanksgiving, because we go to Kentucky and we bring everything. We've always done her portraits, because that's her birthday, is Thanksgiving week as well, so we've always been able to do hers then. So they get theirs done that week, you know, unless they, because they don't always come over Christmas. But that's my goddaughter who lives in Louisville. If anybody is wondering who Katie is, but I do talk about her enough that you probably know.
Speaker 1:So I know I'm just. I'm assuming that everyone has been keeping up with every, every character I mean.
Speaker 2:I know, I mean it's probably a presumptuous of us, but but anyway, yeah. But speaking of getting busy during the holidays, let's take a pause for the cause, so we can hear from our great friends at retouch up, which I'm not sure what I would do without right now.
Speaker 1:Seriously, beer back. Hey, you is it 2 am and you're still up retouching that one-year-old's cake smash session because there's just not enough hours to get it all done. Stop what you're doing right now and upload that session to retouch up. Never tried retouch up? No problem. Sign up for a free account at retouchupcom and use the referral code GYST to tell them you're one of our loyal listeners. With retouch up, there are no contracts, no minimums, no complications and nothing to lose. For a limited time, all listeners of this podcast can save $10 with the coupon code GISTFALL10. That's G-Y-S-T-F-A-L-L-1-0 for all customers. That's enough to retouch like four headshots or get five extractions or remove all the leaves out of the pool and the cars out of the parking lot on that real estate shot you just took. Get your life back with retouchup at retouchupcom, and we are back.
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm gonna tell you, I about fell in the floor on the airplane the other day what day was it, I don't know. I've been in a. I feel like I've been in a fever dream for 48 hours On Tuesday when I got an email from Curidary Riftography. Okay, guys, because I preach about weekly, almost daily, newsletters and emails like I'm a big, I'm big on email. I think it does work. I know it works keeping my name in their inbox. It's brand identity, all the things. Kira believes this as well. So Kira goes. You know, I think I'm gonna go. Oh, there's Waffles for us. I'm gonna go in, I'm gonna check out. I'm gonna kind of update what happened. Kira, be honest. Yeah, no, I told I would love to. I know you are, I know you are Love to be honest.
Speaker 1:Remember how we always say like do as we say, not as we do. Well, do as Mary does, no. And you know, here I have at my fingertips like an expert in how to do this and I haven't done it in a really long time. I get very my butt tightens up a lot at the thought of sending out an email, sometimes like to a big group of people, because I look at those unsubscribes, that unsubscribed Okay, audrey Wanget, I know, I know, stop it doesn't matter it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:I know it doesn't matter, but like seriously, like one person before we get into it. One person I just fulfilled an order for did a beautiful like large family portrait for and they just came and picked up and then I saw that they unsubscribed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't understand the psychology of that. We can talk about that.
Speaker 1:Okay, but anyway, so the so what I did, what what had happened was is because it had been so long, I hadn't updated my mailing list in a really long time and rather than categorize all of my, all of those email addresses, as you know, business corporations or photographers, or you know family session clients, or past-hedge clients, blah, blah, blah I just dumped them all into a bucket, just dumped them all into a really large bucket and I uploaded it and I updated it and I ended up with like over you know 2,500 email addresses or whatever, and I'm like, oh, okay, that's a nice chunk to send to. And the results were less than great. Imagine that. Imagine that, okay, we threw up, we threw an email at the wall. At the wall.
Speaker 1:To see what's stuck, just to see what happens, just to see what would happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it is hard, and I, first of all, every, we have to remember, guys, that every time you send an email, it does cost money. And whatever service you're, if you're doing it appropriately, which we all are, if you're using mail champ, or we all are, it costs money. So you're, every time you send an email, it's costing money. Now, it could be pennies, it could be quarters, whatever it is.
Speaker 2:So for me, I have to keep out and I mean we both get, I'm sure, an enormous amount of photographers emails into our system whatever leads, however lead, whatever lead generator they're coming in on because they want to see what we're doing, because we teach and we're out there and I get it. You know, I totally understand that. But I don't want to pay to send them an email about booking their fall family portrait because they're not going to book their fall family portrait and it. And look, guys, if you want, just call me, I'll send you my emails. I just don't, you know, don't like you, I'll give them to you. Just I don't have to go through the painstaking process that you're going through now. It's of pulling out all of those that are not actual, real clients. That's the not fun.
Speaker 1:I don't think it was the content so much that was. That was not great. I think it was just the list that it's not no, yeah, not the content, it's the lit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly the list exactly, yeah yeah, every once, while you just start fresh, and since it's been a minute since you've done it, maybe you just pull your client names and you start a whole new list and you just dump the other. I know that feels can you do that?
Speaker 1:yeah, I could probably do that well, and it'll. It'll remember, because I use mail champ. Yeah, and it'll remember people that said absolutely not, I don't know. Yes, it will, even if you upload them again.
Speaker 2:I refresh my list every quarter. For that reason I'm only pulling cuz sometimes, not always, but I mean I'll be very honest, like sometimes I'll have a client that I don't really want to reach out to anymore something has happened or whatever that maybe I don't want to continue to market to them. I've realized they're not my ideal client anymore. So I will want to, I want, so I'll update my. I update my client hazing fiscalist every quarter and it will, when I put it in it, immediately knows those that have opted out. So I don't have to worry about any of those legalities. Mail champ takes care. That's what we pay them for.
Speaker 1:That's their job, yeah yeah, yeah, well, in hindsight. I mean, if it look, if you go and you categorize, let's talk about that. So in mail champ and I'm sure in all the other email client softwares, it allows you to categorize the, the name, as you can create all the categories and when you go and send, you can send it to a specific list. But you could also say exclude these categories, anybody who falls under these categories, and so I could say exclude photographers, exclude corporate clients, exclude. You know, I don't know what. I could come up with other things too. But you know, and I could just send, or I could just say specifically send to the group in this list that are just family session clients or family session inquiries. You know, because I also have lead generation, sure, where they may not have come through the website as a full-blown client, because they haven't hired me yet, but they've contacted me through the website. You know, and I could reach out to those leads. But I think I did do one smart thing, even though I screwed up everything else.
Speaker 2:No, you did it, you did it. Let's start with that.
Speaker 1:I went and looked because I did go and look at the reporting, you know. So you can see not just your open rate, but you can see all of the links that appeared in the email and you can see all of the, all of the people Specifically that clicked on those links. Yes, so, all of the ones that clicked on the booking links but did not book. I Went ahead and exported you can export specific lists like that out of MailChimp Exported that list out and crafted a custom email for every single one of those people Yep, and said, hey, I thought you might still be interested and, you know, sent a nice, you know, person-specific email Yep to that person to follow up. Yes, you know, which is what you have been doing for years.
Speaker 2:But I was just like, look at me being smart, no, that's a little bit people have shown some interest, right, they've gone from just mild salsa to mediumly medium to hot salsa because they've they've shown you that they're interested. So now you have to do exactly that. I mean, let's be honest, big corporations have huge bots out there that know this. As soon as we click on something, you know you're gonna get some sort of a targeted email or message or something on Digitally be their email, facebook, you know, social media, whatever that they go. Hey, I think you might be interested. Well, you know I'm interested because I've clicked on it. We just have to do it the manual way, which is follow that, get that data and then be very targeted with it. And absolutely I do that. Um, absolutely, I mean, why wouldn't we do that? They're giving us what we need to know.
Speaker 1:Well, another nice thing the MailChimp does is like if somebody opens the email and they click something, it ranks them, it gives them a star rating and it ranks that person as, like this, is somebody who act actively, at least engaged, yes with the content. So you can even send specifically from MailChimp To the people who engage the most with the emails you know, and so that's another way to kind of like reach out to your, your target audience, more.
Speaker 1:But that's exactly what I'm gonna have to do. I'm gonna have to go in and actually Categorize everyone, and it'll be a process or I can take them out, and I can Mainly do, but you know, you can, rather than dump the whole list, you can have the whole list, export the list, categorize them and reupload them and it'll update everybody. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, it's good and it's. It does take some time and energy and this is something that, guys, if you don't have time to do now, you know Kiri does have an amazing assistant, so I'm sorry that this he's helping you out with some of this.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, but if you don't have that, then you know it's something you just have to sit down and make the time to do on one of your desk days. If we go back to something that we continually talk about, that it's important because if you're gonna spend the time, energy and money, that time, energy and resource to put that out there, right, it doesn't make sense that we just send an email and go, oh well, that didn't work. You have to work the list. I mean, you really do. It's not gonna just you're not gonna sit down an email. In my opinion, you're not gonna send out an email and just book everything you want or need to book. You're gonna. You might now you might get now you might, and I good for you if you do.
Speaker 2:I've not found that to be the end all just one email. It takes a little more work than that. You're gonna get those early adapters and that's great. Those are the ones you want anyway, right? But for me, I need more than that. So I'm gonna have to work the list and follow the data and and go through that, go down that rabbit hole and Either pay someone to do it for you or do it yourself. But you're wasting money if you don't take advantage of that, because would you agree, care that just giving them that second or third like little piece of cheese, essentially it's gonna eventually you're gonna get way more sessions if you do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely I think, I think, and, and you're, you're open and rate your click rate, everything goes up, the quality of the list goes up, and Then you feel like you're actually accomplishing something, whereas like you open it and you're like, oh, this click rate is bad, oh, this open rate is terrible. Oh look, 19 unsubscribes. Oh look, one person reported abuse. Why? You know, one person in 2,500 reports abuse and you're like, who was it? Who did this to me?
Speaker 2:I know, I know, I know, I know it. I I used to get. I just don't even open those reports anymore. When I get the unsubscribe report, I don't even look at it. It doesn't matter. If they don't want my name in their email box, that's totally fine and I'm not gonna worry about it, because even that person that did unsubscribe they just they're just there may be one of those people like me who like to keep a very clean email inbox, and it's not that they're not gonna use you again, they just don't want to. They don't want to deal with it. They're already.
Speaker 1:I mean exactly exactly.
Speaker 2:It's hard to remember that, though, in the heat of it all, though, I give you that. I give you that it is, it is, it is yeah, cuz you're like why don't you like me?
Speaker 1:I know what have I done. I know what did I do, especially lady I just worked with, but I get it. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2:I know it's hard, it's not easy. It's not easy, it's hard to put ourselves out there. I mean, that's part of the biggest problem I think we have, you know, is that mindset of putting ourselves out there and dealing with rejection because it none of it feels good.
Speaker 1:No, it does not feel good, it just doesn't so well, I'll tell you to what I think sort of drove this. This will say Small misstep, you know, I mean we still got the point across. We still book sessions, we still, you know, did what we had to do. It just the reporting doesn't look good from it. But what drove that sort of speedy, you know, hastened, let's just throw it at the wall kind of idea, was the fact that I was feeling pressure. It was like, oh god, it's already the end of September, oh, I haven't finished this yet. Oh, I need to get this out. I've been working all week on this new style guide which I'd love to show you and and we can talk about. But I've been, I've been putting all this stuff together in every little small minute that I have and finally I was just like you know what, I gotta get it out.
Speaker 2:Done is better than perfect right.
Speaker 1:Right done is better than perfect. But also even the time of day. I know better. I used to send out email marketing. I know you don't send it at five o'clock at night. No, what's wrong with you. What's wrong who?
Speaker 2:would do that. What psychopaths that send an email at five o'clock.
Speaker 1:What kind of moron would send an email to 23 to 2,500 people? At five o'clock and expect great results.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, you get it. But we all know this, we all know this and we do. But you know you got it done, and sometimes that's even though you know there's lots of little flaws in there, it's done. And I mean, there's just a point at some time in my week or my day, I just getting it done is. It's the only thing that's gonna let me be able to lay my head down on the pillow at night, because it just becomes overwhelming for me.
Speaker 1:Sometimes you just gotta get it off your list.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so done, and not perfect. Well, it's done, and at least something came out of it right, correct.
Speaker 1:Like it wasn't as fruitful as maybe it could have been, but we don't know. You know everybody got it. So Right, right. And you know I did book two new clients who had been headshot or corporate clients before. Oh, that's great For the first session. So I mean that crossover worked. Yeah, you know, cause you know I'm always getting headshot clients. You know I get a law firm in here and they go oh yeah, I need to hurry you for my family photos, you know. And so like that was one of. You know maybe that was a good unintended consequence of well, I mean not unintended, it was intended, but you know yeah.
Speaker 1:It actually worked.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So how do we do it? Let me ask you. Expert email marketer.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm about that.
Speaker 1:How do you do that? How do you both target an audience like that you know wants the information and appeal to a crossover audience that you hope wants the information? So in this example, I have family clients or senior clients or you know something to do with family, who I know are interested in the information, and then I have these headshot clients or corporate clients that are also getting the emails and I'm hoping they're interested in the content. How do you, what would you think would be the best way to target them?
Speaker 2:So most of what I do I send to pretty much all my clients. Now, I don't have I'm not as corporate heavy as you but if it's the marketing director, the HR person, whoever's hired me from a company, I'm sending them the email. They can always opt out Every one of almost every one of my emails. I have. Most of my emails will say and look, if you, most of my emails invite them to share it with a friend or family who might also be interested. So I always do that and I will.
Speaker 2:I know it worked because a lot of times someone will say oh, my sister-in-law sent me this, my mother-in-law sent me this, my neighbor sent me this. So I'm always inviting them to share it with other people if it's not for them right now, because I do weddings. So sometimes if they're not in the space where they have kiddos yet, they might share it with their new sister-in-law, who does have children or what have you. So I don't really need to. My biggest challenge is keeping out other photographers. And it's not that I want to keep the other photographers out guys, that's not what I mean. It's just I want to spend my studio marketing dollars on marketing to clients, right, yeah?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So, but everybody else pretty much goes in the same bucket, unless they opt out or I don't want them in there anymore. So if you're an inquiry at my studio or you've used me, you're in that list. I don't really have them petitioned out Now. The only time I will is if I'm going in and doing that second, third or fourth round using the data of who's actually clicked the links and go following the clicks, or if I'm doing something incredibly specific. Obviously I have separate wedding lists. If there's a engagement, bridal or wedding, I would only send that to a certain list, but other than that, I send it to everybody. Yeah, and I probably have 15,000 names.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, I mean, so I didn't do it to, and the people-.
Speaker 2:I don't do. Yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
Speaker 1:The only reason you're in my list and photographers. I have a separate list of just photographers who signed up to follow me or whatever, and so not every you know you may be listening and be like I got that email, but that's probably because we've worked together before, like you've come to our workshop and I have you entered into my. Everything has been exported out of my you know, 17 hats.
Speaker 1:So, if I've invoiced you or sent you money or had a transaction with you or you inquired, you know, and we collaborated in some way. I that's how you ended up on that list.
Speaker 2:I see, that makes sense, yeah.
Speaker 1:So luckily, it's not every photographer that I've ever interacted with, but certainly ones that where money has been exchanged.
Speaker 2:Right, that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I mean and I know I have them in there too it's just because I generate leads in different ways, right? So either you're a client, or you inquire through social media, or you inquire through my website because I have my you know lead magnet or my transitional call to action on my website. I get a lot of leads on a weekly basis from that. So that's where I really have to sift through, because I would say, half of them are photographers, because I teach it and I talk about how important it is and people want to see it, so they download it and that's fine. But then they go into my drip campaign, et cetera, et cetera. Once they go through my drip campaign, then they end up in my general email list. So that's the list that I have to sift through. And again, it's not because I'm being stingy, it's just because I don't want to pay to market to someone who's not going to use my services.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, why spend the money?
Speaker 2:It does add up. You know what I mean. Like you know, it does add up over time.
Speaker 1:So in the same way. So I was also thinking I almost did this, but then I thought this, the emailing them would be faster. And now I feel like if I poke them again too soon it's too pushy. But you know, when you talk about using Drop Cowboy, it feels like Drop Cowboy. For those who maybe missed, that episode is the ringless voicemail that Mary was using for her clients. So if, like Drop Cowboy, if you just do it by pay for play, it's like 10 cents a call You're getting expensive. Yeah, it's pretty expensive if you have a big list, but what if you just drop Cowboy to the people who click?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I think it's very inexpensive. Sorry, I must have misspoke. It's very. I think it's for the bang for the buck. It's very expensive. Now, where I am going to disagree with you is I will send an email and within 48 hours they're getting a voicemail, because I want them to think I really am anxious to talk to them.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay. Well then, I'm not saying I'm just a nervous, I'm a nervous person.
Speaker 2:No, I know you are and this is and well, let's be honest, this is something that's kind of new to you, because you've spent a lot of years on this podcast alone saying, well, I really am not, I'm not in a space where I'm doing a lot of marketing. Yet You're at a different space where you've changed your business to where you're going to need to market more because of your price point and your product lines and things like that. And because you're expanding beyond your incredibly successful corporate business headshot line.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and it's been so word of mouth and it's not that it's honestly just because of the traveling so much.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean and it's probably you know just me being gone so much this year, I think it's a combination, though I think when your business grows to the point where your business has grown, word of mouth runs out because you're not, and maybe because you're traveling, you're not out in the public, you're not networking as much. That's a really great point, because maybe through networking you've gotten a lot of your point, but at some point you kind of run out of people. So you have to start putting yourself out there in different capacities, because I found that to be the same thing. I felt like I didn't have to market for years and then all of a sudden I'm like wait a minute, and I have to market more because I'm not out. I'm not out and about more. My kids are getting older. I'm not at school as much, I'm not here as much. I'm not, you see. So I think that it happens to all of us and on top of your traveling, I think that didn't help, but I think this would have happened anyway. So if that makes you feel, I just think that you're at that point in your business, you're over a decade in. It's just time.
Speaker 2:But I think the Drop Cowboy thing works beautifully with and I would say I hope you received my email. I'm so excited about this. I thought of you. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, meaning I want them to go. Oh, wait a minute, a lot of times I'll go. I will have more. I will probably have more people call me and say, mary, I didn't get the email. Would you resend it, of course, or because it went to spam or whatever else, but I want to make sure they got that email.
Speaker 2:Now, the Drop Cowboy you're probably not going to send a 15,000 names. You're exactly right. I'm either going to target it to the people that are my best clients that haven't I target it to my best clients that haven't been in anywhere from two to three years or, unless I know there's a milestone which I track those. I'm usually calling them personally anyway, meaning they're second child's, ready for their three-year-old portrait, or whatever that is. But I'm probably going to drop Cowboy to people that are my best clients, meaning they have spent with me and they haven't been in within the past two and a half to two to three years, because I want to get them in the door. I probably would not choose to only drop Cowboy to targeted people only because I know they got the email. Now I'm not saying don't, I would probably include them, but I want to make sure they got the email, and because so many emails go bounce to spam.
Speaker 2:Now my lead-in is I sent an email, I don't know if you received it. I just want to make sure I thought of you. Blah, blah, blah. Because again, I know I'm repeating myself, but I probably have more people call me back and go oh my gosh, mary, I didn't see it. I apologize, could you resend? Then? I know? Okay, great, now we're in a conversation.
Speaker 1:So, like your repeat customers or customers that typically are booking, and you see that they didn't even open the email You're like okay.
Speaker 2:I need to send this out to them specifically.
Speaker 2:I do because I want them to open those emails and then because they might just have missed it or what have you. And again, I'm not saying I only would send it to send a drop Cowboy to them, but I would certainly make sure I sent it to them because I want my emails to get opened, I want that open rate to be high, I want my exchange on energy asserted or money put in to be high, not low. So drop Cowboy for me is just really good. Now the thing with drop Cowboy is I can't use it very often. You know, I used it earlier this year. I've not used it since. I probably will use it again, maybe in a week or two, just to let them know that.
Speaker 2:You know, fall family portraits are booking up, thinking of you. Are you ready to book? And then I might use it one more time for my holiday quick take clients. Because I still am doing those and because those are so profitable and busy for me. I can't give them up yet, even though we say every year, maybe this is the year it's not going to be the year. This year I'm going to do them because I look at the money and I can't pass that money up but that's a very small group that I'll send that to. That's only going to be sent to people who have children in the home, obviously, or past, you know, quick take clients. But I probably next week will do a drop Cowboy for my fall families Because fall, like I said, still isn't hitting yet.
Speaker 1:but it's why can't you do it very often?
Speaker 2:because it becomes insincere and then it starts feeling fake. So, because I'm saying I was thinking of you and didn't know it starts by now and I could be wrong. So let's talk about this. I feel like it's going to start reading as not real.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it'll start reading a little corporate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you know, I kind of feel like I know when I'm getting a fake call, but they know my voice and it is my voice, so I don't know that. My clients have put two and two together. You know what I mean?
Speaker 1:Well, I'll give you an example of something that felt insincere. I had two. I had a friend and a client text me in this week hey, kara, I need your help. And then it was like a fundraiser. You know it was like that. They obviously like mass text, using some sort of thing. Yeah, and in fact one person said, hey, shakira, I need your help.
Speaker 1:Obviously how I am in their phone, right, you know. And I thought, oh, I haven't heard from. Oh, you're not. Like, look at somebody I haven't talked to in a while. Oh, never mind, you're not, you didn't send this to me, like you sent this to everyone in your phone, yeah, you know. And so there was a moment of like, oh, look who it is. Oh, you know and so you don't want that, you don't want that feeling.
Speaker 2:No you know and I don't do names because these are mass so they're not personalized- oh yeah, you couldn't do that. So, but I will say I would start if I were you, I would set it up and I'd say hey guys, it's Kara, I'm just touching base, Happy fall, or you know, gosh, you know, whatever, Are we glad that's. You know something like that. I hope you're in school years kicking off well, or I hope you're doing well. I sent an email out last week.
Speaker 2:I'm very excited about my new my new design lookbooks, or whatever Style guides Style guides and I thought of you guys and I'm working on some new stuff and, of course, fall family portrait or my, you know, my fall portraits are booking up. I don't know if you use fall because you all are old studio, but if my holiday portrait sessions are booking up really fast and I know I haven't, you know, I know that you guys are something like that.
Speaker 2:That's how I say my studio sessions, video sessions, are booking and and I, you know, just I'm so excited about these style guides and I wanted to just kind of get your thoughts, so just want to make sure you got the email and if you have any questions or if there's anything I can do, please do not hesitate to give me a call, because you did send out an email. You do have new style guides. You do want them to call you, so it's all incredibly sincere. So that email, that voicemail for me, anybody that I would drop cowboy, that too, it's going to hit as authentic, in my opinion. Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah. But if I'm doing that every month, it's not going to hit. It's going to be like leave me alone. Now you're being annoying.
Speaker 1:Right, right Now you're. You're harassing me. Yeah, because I feel like man, you know man three times and I don't hear from them. Maybe I'm just not getting the point you know but maybe people are busy, and also in September, and even though we are eager to get the fall booked you know it doesn't mean that anyone's really they're thinking about Halloween, oh, of course, of course, yeah, and then it's November and then it's done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you know. No, absolutely no, you're absolutely right, and it's tricky, you know, and this is another thing I think that because you, I email, you know me, I first of the month they get my newsletter and they get an at least one email a week for me all year round. It's, it's, it's set up. As a matter of fact, I've made a promise to myself that I'm going to set it up in January for the whole year and just let it ride Like. I'm just trying really hard to automate that as much as possible, because I'm pretty consistent with what I'm talking about. My first quarter is always going to be an artist project. My second quarter is children in the garden, summer is beach and fall is family portraits. Now, if I pepper in a project or quick takes or anything like that, those are additional emails. But that's my outline. That really has not changed in five years. It's consistent Because those are my. That's what I've identified as my main categories where I get the most money, so in the most sessions. So you know that works. But I think that when you get more consistent with it, it become people will expect it and the cool thing is is the people that don't opt out and the people that do open them and the people that do click through, you're going to be able to identify a male champion. Right Does a great job helping with that. That.
Speaker 2:Those are your star clients. Those are the ones that are your winners. So, for me, when I had those star clients literally my star clients when I last month was looking for some new outside sales reps because I've had two that have, one has moved and one is chosen to take a full-time job and whatever, but I was looking for some new reps I reached out to only those clients to apply and I got three new applications. I'm excited. I'm working with them right now. So those are my clients that are. They are real, they're brand believers, like, they love my brand. They're not going to opt out. They're the ones that are probably already sending me business anyway. Those are my, those are my number ones.
Speaker 1:They're not always my biggest spenders by the way, they're definitely not but they're my brand believers.
Speaker 2:Those are the ones that are going to talk about me and really love what I do. And, you know, if I want to reach out to someone with a referral type opportunity, those are the ones I'm going to reach out to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, I've like you know, I'm glad we're talking about it because I'm in the thick of it you know right now, and I bet a lot of other photographers are right now too and and feeling like they're behind the. They're behind the eight ball. On this one, you know absolutely.
Speaker 2:No, and it's overwhelming because you also are dealing with your own stuff and our own and you still have lots of clients in business to worry about and you have families and we have all the stuff. Like we all have all the stuff and you're trying to get your own family ready for Halloween and oh, I need to do a holiday card and oh, my gosh, christmas is around the corner and I'm not going to do. Yes, all the stuff all the stuff is happening.
Speaker 1:Every bit of it.
Speaker 2:Every bit of it's happening on top of us having to do this. So the good news is is that what you going through, this process, hopefully, is going to help other people, encourage you guys, just do it. I mean, like Kira said, look, I feel like I made a lot of like. If I had to do it over again, maybe I wouldn't have done it this way or that way, but I'm just thrilled that you got it done and you're learning from those mistakes, because next year, this time it's already going to be done. You're just going to have to push a button. Yeah, you know you're setting yourself up for future. Future success as well as, hopefully, immediate. You know bookings and success as well, because it does become very automated after a while. You don't have to rewrite these every time, guys. You don't have to rewrite it and do all the stuff you know and I think, Kira, you're using you're using some automation for your copy, even.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I am, and it's been very, very helpful because, again, not that I couldn't write it myself, but I have this long. I use chat GPT, the chat GPT, the free version, and I have a thread that I started with it, that I have just been brain dumping everything about my business into it, writing samples of the way I write marketing emails, the way I write articles and blog posts, everything. Basically, I'm copying my brain into it so that I can go okay, I need a blog post, I need it on this topic, and or I need an email blast and I need it on this topic, and here are the calls to action that need to happen in it. Here's the things I need to cover in it. Can you help me write this?
Speaker 1:That will be that will get the biggest response, you know, or something like that, you know, and please write it in my voice. Please, you know, help me use the best keywords for subject lines, and you know so. It'll give me a subject line, it'll give me options for subject lines, and sometimes it misses the mark. Sometimes it goes a little wordy, you know, but it's a great place for me to start so that I can modify that. It's still generating stuff based on the information I've already given it. So, whereas I think what people are so worried about is like if you say I want it to write in the style of so and so, you know, and then that's kind of lifting an author's.
Speaker 1:you know words and use, but this is really like. I want you to write it in the style of me. Please steal me, yeah, steal me, yeah, it's important.
Speaker 2:Like she said, there's now with chat to be tea. There's the tools section, right, and you can upload not only your writing samples, but you can upload exactly what your intent is, who your audience is, how they should accept it, how they should you know. So, like you know, are you, are you writing this to sell? Are you writing this to inspire you? So there's lots of lots of things and I've done a lot of. I'm not I'm not using it really yet, but I'm really I'm flirting with the idea of it, and I just read a really great article by Seth Godin, who talked about a lot of the things that should be included if you really want to highly customize it, and it was really well done and I took a lot of that heat and I can't remember the gentleman that he referenced. That's doing a lot of work on this, but, like me, as a small business creative, like words I should be incorporating in to look at.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of great information out there if you do your research and, yeah, there is a lot, of, a lot of smack talk on some of the sites and a lot of the things about you know the theft of it and, as a matter of fact. You know, I know I told you I made great friends with a lot of my writer friends. That are all Dave Matthews people and I know that thank goodness they're coming to the end of that strike. But there's a whole, nother, whole, nother issue just just starting with all that, but how AI is stealing essentially their whole livelihood. Yeah, and songwriters now I saw where Bob Dylan just signed on. All the songwriters are coming in because of that and so I don't know where all that's going to go, and that's way above my pay grade.
Speaker 2:I feel. I feel terrible for the people that are losing, you know, life's work over this. I truly do so. I do internally struggle, but I think you're exactly right. I think if you put in your style, if you put into your intent, it can be an amazing tool. Just like Photoshop helps us edit our images, it can be an amazing tool to help us just up or edit our writing. I think that's very different than write me an article on XYZ. That's not, in my opinion, appropriate. I know you feel the same way. Oh, 100%.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and in fact, even like I mean, you know, there are articles that I have to write for like PPA magazine, and of course I'm not going to use it for that you know because that's not authentic at all and I feel weird about that. It's the president's message. I feel like it should genuinely be your message, the president's message.
Speaker 1:But you know, but otherwise I would just be writing these things. I don't. I'm not a company that hires a, you know, a copywriting team or a marketing team or anything like that. If I were bigger, I might, and then I would. I would have concerns about it, but as I wasn't doing that already, this is just saving me some time for, you know, content, that is, people are skimming.
Speaker 2:Exactly, you know exactly, and it doesn't. It's not huge. You're not writing huge papers that are we're not impacting the world here, it's just there's. You're trying to get really drilled down, concise marketing blurbs in your own voice, and I do think it's incredibly useful. And again, I highly recommend going out and looking like what Kira's talking about, making sure you're customizing your chat. You know your AI as much as possible, just like we do with our retouching guys or just like you do with. You know it's no different than we've had AI ever since Word Perfect was invented, because when you checked your grammar, your spelling, that's AI. Oh, grammarly, yeah, it's a I mean Microsoft way back when. So it's always been around, it's just so paperclip.
Speaker 1:It's, I see, I see you're writing a letter.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly, exactly. So there is exactly. I forgot about that. So we're all you know. Use it to your advantage to save time and, and, and you know, make yourself, and I do think it helps save time and I'm definitely setting mine up. I'm excited to maybe play around with it, but I'm also lazy and I have all my emails already written, so I'm struggling Well for next year.
Speaker 1:You know, like I, like you said, you're trying to get it all knocked out at the beginning of next year. You could, you could start working on that. And one other good tip I'll share is that if sometimes, especially when you're getting started with customizing it, you can tell it who you are and what you do, but then you can say what information do you need from me to be able to have the best brand identity you know for my business, so that you can help me create some marketing pieces? And then it'll go off asking you all kinds of things that you made not a thought of, that it might want Exactly.
Speaker 2:You know that was one of the things in Cess article about to like letting it ask you questions and you answering them truthfully, because it's going to help customize it more and more and more so oh yeah, it did that for me earlier today when I was writing a blog post.
Speaker 1:It came back. I was surprised, Actually. It came back and asked me how I wanted to handle the structure of something. And let's see what it said I'm back. I'm back in it over here. Let's see, it's getting smarter is. My point is what it says. It says this is great content, guys.
Speaker 2:La, la, la, la la.
Speaker 1:Oh, it says let's delve into the main content. How would you usually structure a blog post like this? Do you have any specific tips or guidelines you'd like me to include?
Speaker 2:And then so you're, you're collaborating with it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. Like I was having it write an article about, you know, getting the best business headshot, you know, and it was asking me for my ideas, my content, that I would have written in it anyway, yeah, no, absolutely.
Speaker 2:It's no different than collaborating with another person or and I hate to another person. So it's I hate to say that, but it's like if you worked with someone on Fiverr or you hired or outsourced your copy. It's the same thing. But us, as small business owners, we don't have the resources to do that, you know. So having this at our fingertips allows us to compete in an arena that we weren't able to compete in, quite frankly, because it's it's very cost-prohibitive to hire someone to help collaborate with that. So, as a small business owner, I get where. For us, it's a game changer.
Speaker 1:It's a huge game changer it is, and especially when you're, you know, by yourself, or you got one extra person, or you get, you know. Well, no only do so much, absolutely, I only fit so much in.
Speaker 2:Well, all right, all right. Well, the moral of the story is I do believe in the consistency of emails. Do not worry about the unsubscribes and try to be consistent. Consistency is king, content is queen, consistency is king and content is queen. So I think we've gone over today the importance of consistency and I think that we've also gone over the point of content and how you have a great resource that you can customize and create some great valuable content for your clients.
Speaker 2:And I will leave with this piece Don't forget to nurture, nurture, nurture. Then ask. So don't make everything about book me, schedule me, you know, contact me. Make sure you're giving them nurturing articles, like what makes a great headshot, how to dress for your healing portrait session, my favorite chocolate chip cookie recipe, whatever it is. Nurturing pieces which you can collaborate with other great creators out there. Out there, by the way, if you find a great blog that's about you know cooking or something and you want to collab with them and give them credit, and vice versa, that's so strong. Make sure that you're including information that your listeners or your readers will use, whether they use you or not. And I'll also say the follow-up piece Kira talking about incorporating Drop Cowboy into a follow-up. I think it's the biggest impact of all. You got to use it like garlic, you know sparingly or at least how I would use garlic or like spicy peppers very sparingly but it can have the biggest impact of all, in my opinion. So there you go. All right, I'm going to do it.
Speaker 1:Let's do it. We're doing it. Okay, you guys can follow us on Instagram I Get your Shoes Together. You can follow us on Facebook at Get your Shoes Together. You can email us at girlygetyourshoestogethercom and subscribe to us everywhere where podcasts are played. We will see you next time. Thanks, y'all.