As photographers, we understand that capturing an authentic image goes beyond just snapping the perfect shot. We discuss our approach to creating a stress-free environment for our clients, especially when it comes to headshots, and how we masterfully balance it all without offending them.
Now, let's talk about something we've all encountered - red flags. In the photography world, they can make or break a client relationship. We reflect on our experiences, sharing insights on how we navigate the tricky landscape of client expectations, budgets, and the importance of staying true to our business model. We emphasize the value of digital files, why artists need to value their work, and how one client's experience can open doors to new opportunities.
This week's episode is sponsored by our friends at Retouch Up! Use the coupon code GYST10 for a special discount!
This episode was written and performed by Mary Fisk-Taylor and Kira Derryberry, produced by Kira Derryberry and edited by Joel North.
As photographers, we understand that capturing an authentic image goes beyond just snapping the perfect shot. We discuss our approach to creating a stress-free environment for our clients, especially when it comes to headshots, and how we masterfully balance it all without offending them.
Now, let's talk about something we've all encountered - red flags. In the photography world, they can make or break a client relationship. We reflect on our experiences, sharing insights on how we navigate the tricky landscape of client expectations, budgets, and the importance of staying true to our business model. We emphasize the value of digital files, why artists need to value their work, and how one client's experience can open doors to new opportunities.
This week's episode is sponsored by our friends at Retouch Up! Use the coupon code GYST10 for a special discount!
This episode was written and performed by Mary Fisk-Taylor and Kira Derryberry, produced by Kira Derryberry and edited by Joel North.
This week's episode is brought to you by our friends at retouchup. Retouchup works smarter, not harder. Welcome to Get your Shoot Together. The photographers podcast, where we discuss studio business life and keeping it all in line. I am Kira Dairyberry and I'm Mary Fitz Taylor, and I just want to say for the record I have a pretty good track record. I'm not flubbing the intro. It's been very few times in our Gabylian episodes that I have flubbed it's true, it's true.
Speaker 2:But she did just flub it to the point where yeah, her assistant's laughing. I'm laughing, it was. Joel will also be laugh. Our editor will also be laughing at some point. Yeah, yeah, I think I said photographer for.
Speaker 1:I don't even know what it was. It was no, no, it was a sound.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was so. Yeah, guys, so it's. You know we're full in November and it's gotten cold here in Virginia, Is it still? Is it gotten cold in Florida? It's chilly, it's brisk.
Speaker 1:I'm in a sweatshirt. Oh dear, I know I was actually kind of cold this morning, okay Okay. So I like it. I was eager for it, but I do feel like there was no in between.
Speaker 2:Like no, no, it wasn't. It was so warm this weekend and then it just got real cold, like yeah, didn't even have like a minute for like that the air, nor the like you know what I mean Like air or heat was running, it just kind of went to one. So it was rude, it was so rude.
Speaker 1:And as always, things are like heating up. I was complaining. I told you I was complaining my friend this morning. I was like, oh, you know, it's kind of loose. I'm playing it fast and loose, like with my schedule I've been. I had breakfast with her like a long breakfast this morning. I was like what do you got today? She was like nothing, what do you got? And I was like I mean I'm podcasting and then I have a consult. And then I got in and I looked at the calendar and I was like just kidding, it's awful, it's going to be awful in any minute and I should be bathing in this in this slowness, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, I don't feel that way. I still feel like I'm not as busy as I should be this time of year, and then get it. I, this is what we work for, this is what I said I wanted. But all of a sudden I'm like feeling a little little bit of anxiety, like I just feel like I should be so much busier, like I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I mean, I, I too, have felt that way for about the last week because I was getting like no, I agree with you. I really feel like this is usually a time where we're like flooded doing family sessions and it left and right, and I I'm going to say I definitely have fewer family sessions this year, but they're, I'm finding I mean we just booked two today. I mean we're booking them later Like it just seems like people are waiting longer.
Speaker 1:You, know, and so I mean, and then I had an issue where I did a consult for somebody and they booked me and even though we went over everything, she came back and said, oh, I didn't realize it was this big cost as much. And so we ended up like canceling that one. You know gracefully.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Yes, but yeah, it's just been. It's a little you know what I'm doing instead of working. This is what happens when I have any sort of lol Is I start planning home projects?
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah, you do yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So like what if you see my house? What if we swapped the guest room with Kevin's office and we moved Kevin's office downstairs and we turned that big guest room that's, like, you know, a finished out garage we turned it into wait for it game room?
Speaker 2:tables dartboards okay, video games Kevin's office upstairs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, then we have a third bedroom upstairs and it's the smallest bedroom, right, it's like it's a tiny, it's like a nursery size bedroom. So that's where his office is. Yeah, and it's just, he's got too much stuff for this room, and so what, if? What if he moved downstairs and had his office downstairs, which was more an office for use when he was, when we were home?
Speaker 2:you know from the pandemic, you know?
Speaker 1:and what if we took the guest room, which doesn't get used that often but is the well, it's solidly the biggest room in the house outside of like the den, you know? Okay, and we made that a game room, and that's upstairs, it's downstairs.
Speaker 2:The guest room is downstairs. Okay, I see, I don't know. I mean, I don't, I'd stay as far away from home projects as possible.
Speaker 1:I know, but what if I had a pool table? Do you have a pool?
Speaker 2:table. We do not. No, we do not, and nor do I want a pool table. Oh, you're missing out. Well, since it's just Darryl and I here and I don't think the dogs are going to pick up playing pool and billiards anytime soon, I don't know what we would do with them.
Speaker 1:What if you guys pick up ping pong? What if you had a ping pong table? No ma'am, no ma'am.
Speaker 2:I have, I have. You know, I used to play tennis like two or three times a week and I haven't for years, but I have flirted with the idea of picking up the pickleball.
Speaker 1:I like to flirt with that idea too, but also, that requires being outside more. I want more indoor activities.
Speaker 2:Well, my friend is opening a pickle ball place and it's an indoor facility.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's nice, Best of both worlds.
Speaker 2:Yep, and yeah, he's cool, his name is John Laser. He actually used to call the Flying Squirrels Games, which was our you know pony team here for the baseball, and then he went to Virginia Tech and he used to call the sports games up there, and now he's opened this pickleball association and it's all. He started a foundation called the Ladybug Foundation it's all for children's mental health.
Speaker 2:So it's a foundation but he raises money through these pickleball tournaments and stuff like that. So, yeah, it's an amazing. It's an amazing charity and we've done a lot of well real life has done a lot of work with them on getting that ready. Actually, we're going to do, I think, santa with him this year, which is going to be kind of fun. My sister loves Santa. I think she still secretly believes in Santa Claus, which, of course, santa Claus is real. I don't know who's listening and any who. She loves to do these events with this group. So it's been really fun. It's been really fun to watch him just explode and all this happen and raise all this money.
Speaker 1:So that's really awesome. Well, you know what would have been a little easier to market if he, instead of pickleball, leaned into laser tag? Oh John Laser, yeah, John Laser could have right. That would have been an obvious maybe two on the nose.
Speaker 2:She did there. Do you see it? An obvious Okay On that amazing joke, we'll just take a. We'll just take a pause just to see y'all can pick yourself up off the floor from laughing at that one I know I know, I hope you can recover.
Speaker 1:We'll be right back. Hey you is it 2 am and you're still up retouching that one-year-old's cake smash session because there's just not enough hours to get it all done. Stop what you're doing right now and upload that session to retouch up. Never tried retouch up, no problem. Sign up for a free account at retouchupcom and use the referral code GYST to tell them you're one of our loyal listeners. With retouch up, there are no contracts, no minimums, no complications and nothing to lose. For a limited time, all listeners of this podcast can save $10 with the coupon code GISTFALL10. That's G-Y-S-T-F-A-L-L-1-0 for all customers. That's enough to retouch like four headshots or get five extractions or remove all the leaves out of the pool and the cards out of the parking lot on that real estate shot you just took. Get your life back with retouchup at retouchupcom and we are back.
Speaker 2:We are back, okay, mary.
Speaker 1:Fishtailer. Yeah, so I went. I went to Atlanta last week and I participated as one of the speakers in the Rock that conference that took place at PPA headquarters with our friend, sean Lee. Yes, lots of amazing speakers, really good content, really excited attendees. It was really really fun.
Speaker 1:And I put together like this whole new program because I was doing it on shooting, but I thought you know, they had several people shooting and I did demo. But I thought one of the things that would be kind of interesting to talk about is how, as photographers, we we have to be a chameleon in order to get people to react to us in a natural way so that they look like themselves on camera. Yeah, right, yeah. And so I kind of just went through this list of things that that we do and I thought it might be something that was like worth like expanding on. I think it's.
Speaker 1:I think it's something that I don't think you think about having to do this as much as you end up having to do it when you get into the industry, right. So like, for example, somebody walks into the door of my studio and their company has sent them here and they don't want to be here, right, they didn't want to get their headshot done. They don't understand why we can't use the one they already had from 15 years ago and they're really busy and they want to get back to work. So they come in with kind of a negative vibe, right Like a negative energy. So being a chameleon for them doesn't mean meet them with their negative energy, right.
Speaker 2:No, but it does.
Speaker 1:It does mean meet them with something to alleviate this anxiety that they have right. Right so their problem is in Story of Brand Land. Let's do it. Yeah, let's go in there.
Speaker 1:Their problem is they have to do this and they do not want to, but it must be done Correct, and it must be done quickly. And so my solution for them is hey, listen, don't worry, I totally understand. I am like the dentist. But you got to do it, but you don't want to do it. I have everything already set up. Just step right in here, I'll take your photo. If you have a minute, I'll let you pick it, so nobody else picks it for you, and then you can be on your way under 15 minutes. And they're like oh good, oh good, okay, I don't even need the whole hour. No, of course not, we'll get you out. And then they kind of like, they kind of relax Right.
Speaker 1:Because you've sensed this.
Speaker 2:Now, if they come in and they're excited and they brought outfits, and that's obviously not the energy you're going to bring to the space, like right, Because this person is excited.
Speaker 2:But no, I think that does make sense. You know, I think we see that a lot with headshots and I think I used to see it more with some of my high school seniors, specifically when in our studio we did a lot more seniors and you know, we kind of shut that, shut that part down after the pandemic. But usually the guys, sometimes some girls, but they would come in and you just felt it, they were not, they had to come there, they had to be there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know I'm not gonna, whether it was myself or Jessica or Andy, we're not going to come into that space like pretending like they're excited. I mean it's just wasted energy and then everybody feels uncomfortable. You know what?
Speaker 1:I mean.
Speaker 2:But you're not going to come in as like either. You know there's a, there's that fine, fine line there. You know why do they feel this way? Cause they're being forced to do it and they don't want to do it. So the only thing, that, the only itch that you can scratch, is exactly what you said. You know what? I'm all set up and ready for you. I can have you in and out of here in 15 minutes. Just, I just bear with me, yeah, and just you know, speak to the elephant in the room. I get it. You don't want to be here. I'm not taking it personally, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I mean there is that balance of like I don't want to be here, I don't want to offend the photographer, right, you know what I mean. And because people, I get worried about that, I don't want to do this but I don't want to ruin this person's day, Right, you know. Or maybe they don't care, sometimes the seniors, they don't care if they offend the photographer. But you know, I've even done it, especially with the boys, you know, because the mom is who really, really wants it, you know, and I'll, when mom is out at your shop, so they know I'm talking to them, you know I'll be like hey, listen, if you just trust me, I promise I won't make you look stupid and mom will be so happy with you because we know this is for her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because you know this is for her right. Do it for mom, yeah, and they'll go okay.
Speaker 2:And I also found a lot of times, specifically with my school seniors, they had a lot of insecurities whether it was going to be posted online or not. Oh yeah, and they didn't want to look weird. And I mean because you know, bullying is real and let's just be honest, it just happens. So I would always make sure I say, look, just so you know we don't post anything that you don't approve of. So you're going to pick it and if you're happy with it and give us permission, we'll post it. And I would say that sometimes, specifically again with high school seniors, because there was a huge concern that they were going to look, look, quote unquote stupid online, you know, because Well, because kids, these days they have a very curated online presence and they have a lot more control over how they're perceived online than than we ever.
Speaker 1:I mean, we didn't, you know, I mean nobody if mom had a picture in a wallet, you know, or on her desk or whatever you know. So yeah, and so like, like you said, if you alleviate that like concern listen, nothing's going online with that you see in it first and you give them the okay, right, you know, okay, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, it's that. So what other things I mean? Also, I think you know, for me this time of year, coming in with all the kiddos and mom, just the stress factor, like are they going to be? Hey, are they? And a lot of times I'll start this conversation before we ever are in person and it's like so I've done this for a couple of decades now. Please do not worry about it, your kids are going to be fine. No, you don't understand. I'm like I know, but you know what I do understand.
Speaker 2:I've raised my own kids. I use the kids in the studio. I'm allowing plenty of time. So if we have any like awkwardness or we have any meltdowns or we have any adjustment period, we're good. You do not need to worry about it. You know I'm going to help you. I think anytime you can address those things or addressing how you're going to help them, whatever it is pick out clothing, where they're going to hang the portraits. They don't need to worry about posing or lighting. I had somebody I think it was last year, but worried to death how she didn't know how she wanted to be posed and I'm like no, no, no, I will handle this part. It's funny what people get worked up about they get really hung up on stuff.
Speaker 1:That is not something that they are in. They should be in control. That's my job. I had just yesterday a phone call panicked client who I work with every single year. She calls and she says Kara, did I, did I book a family session? I said yeah, and she goes. Did I pay for it? I said yeah, she goes. When is it? I said Friday, she goes. No, no, no, I forgot, I forgot I have not planned, I have no outfits, I have nothing. And I said just reschedule, get it back on the calendar, reschedule, find a time that works. Can you meet with me on Zoom this afternoon so we can shop together online and just order some the crap out of some Amazon stuff and I'll help you plan. I've got you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Plenty of time Just breathe.
Speaker 2:No, it's true, and so how good does that feel? So, what, we know? What's the alternative? The alternative is okay, well, just get back to me whenever you know. But no, you're like, no, let, let me help you pick this and then I'll obviously those new, the new, the new storyboards or mood boards. I'm sure can be very helpful in that, If you can't. I'm just saying this, guys, in case you don't have time to like get on and shop online with them and handhold. But sometimes we have to anticipate it and sometimes you just kind of read, you know, read the room. Now let me ask you this question have you ever read it wrong, like thought we were in one place and we're really in a different place?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the risk we run right, Literally just did that on a console the other day. I totally thought we were on the same place, the energy I mean. What was interesting about this particular call is it was very clear to me that she had heard of me but is not familiar with my work. Okay, and so she started talking about it's an extended family session of grown children, so like 11 people and their spouses or boyfriends. Right and but first, first red flag we want to go outdoors. We want to be not super posed and super candid and just silly and whatever. This isn't a silly group. This is a bunch of people in their 20s you know what I mean Like they're. They're doing it for mom, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And also I don't want everyone to be. I told everyone to just wear what you're comfortable in. And it's like and like the whole conversation I'm on here for is to guide. Yeah, the closing is to talk about how you know the posing and what we're going to do with them. And then the final red flag was um, what are we going to do? You know, and and are we making this like really beautiful portrait that we're going to, you know, put up in your house because all the kids are moving out or moving away or whatever?
Speaker 1:And she was like oh no, well, probably we just want to do like digital. So I just I kind of knew like and and then, when we talked about the session fee, I said, now, you know, the session fee does not come with any of you know, any of the products, so you'll come in for an order session, we'll do that. She was like, absolutely no problem. And then we get an um, an email, for she goes could you resend that to me? Like, while we're on the thing, I said, sure, no problem. So we send it to her.
Speaker 1:And then Misty gets an email from her and says hey, I had no idea. I purchased photography last year and you know, 350 came with all the digital files, you know. And so she just assumed that mine did, even though we talked about it and I was meeting her, even though I was like, okay, this is not what I do, but I know I can do a good job for her, and so we'll just push through, because she says she understands and yeah if she wants to buy the digital package which I went over with her, she she'll be fine, you know, and Nope.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I mean I think sometimes we don't want to trust our gut on these things, like you kind of knew what you didn't. You know what I mean. Like I think that's true, you know a lot of it. I mean this goes a lot of ways. I'm glad we're talking about this because being a chameleon, yeah, it's in the space, but you know, we need to be really proactive in our marketing by doing that.
Speaker 2:And I think that the more time we spend in our marketing solving those quote unquote problems right, that we're talking about meaning I know it's not as easy with headshots, but maybe it is I mean, maybe you know that information that's going out is like what should you expect? And you can be like bam, bam, bam. You know this is all you need to do. I take care of the rest. Same thing with family portraits. You know, would you like to have a design consult? Can I help you with clothing consult? Can I do making sure they understand all these things? I think that takes a lot of the fear out of it and then it taking upon ourselves that now and I know we've talked about this before, but I can't just wait for them to call me back and reschedule. I need to be incredibly proactive about getting that scheduled, calling them, reminding them, like the reschedule you know me a couple of years, several years ago, might have said okay, well, just give me a call back when you're ready.
Speaker 1:I would never do that now. Well, it's too late in the season to even do that now. Like, you can't even count on it at that point and I think at the end of the day too, the other thing that you like a red flag, you know when you're, when you're talking to a new potential client is like and I know you feel the same way as I'm looking for clients that are looking for their photographer for life Right, like my ideal client, family portrait client. I mean, of course, headshots, but family portraits. I want somebody who's like obviously I got to get on Kara's schedule and Kara's going to help me with this year's awesome look that we're going to beat last year. We're going to make this.
Speaker 1:I love the ones that were like came what we did this last year, it's got to be. We got to go over the top for this one. Yeah, you know what I mean. And so when you're working with a new client and they go well, last year I worked with this other person and then we, you know the ones that hop around to like whoever's on sale or whoever's on special or whoever that's not I, you know when you, when you hear those words, like, oh, I used somebody last year and they did this and she even was showing me like some of the images that the person shot for her, like through her, through zoom, you know, on her phone. I was like, oh yeah, these are cute, you know. I mean, it's clear to me that she wasn't looking for her family's photographer, you know, like she was just looking for a family photographer.
Speaker 2:Trying to make a difference this year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, there's a big difference, you know. But you know it's. Being a chameleon also doesn't mean not standing your ground Right, like it it. It also means like you want to match the energy and you want to please, like you want to solve their problem, but within the boundaries of what your business model is Correct, like you can't. I didn't modify when I responded to her with when she said that she didn't have enough budget for this one. I was. I tried to be incredibly polite and gracious. You know, absolutely, I totally understand. You know I specialize in this and create, you know, in studio portraits, family portraits and creating art for the home, right, and I know what you were looking for was a bit more candid, a bit more on location. So it's totally possible, too, that I'm not the right fit stylistically for you. However, if you did want to pivot and come to the studio, here's what I could do for a smaller budget, you know, for your family.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And and I laid it out and I said now I know that's not what you asked for. So I completely want to respect what you did ask for and if you find somebody that will do that in the price range you want to do it in, I totally understand. But let me offer this as an alternative and then, either way, just you know, just let me know how you want to proceed. You know, and she was so happy, I mean, her response to me was so nice, she was thank you so much for taking the time to explain that to me, you know, and and to offer me an alternative. I'm not sure if that's what they're going to want to do. I'm going to talk to them about it, you know.
Speaker 1:And then we moved on. But yeah, I mean, you know, I didn't bend, I didn't give her a discount, I didn't go. I'll do that and match that person's price. But you know, and I just said, totally get it, totally understand. Yeah, no hard feelings, please don't worry about it. Here's what I can do and it. You know, I'm not even sure what her budget is at this point, you know.
Speaker 1:I just know that it's, it's less than what she wanted. And so, you know, I think that there's something to be said to. You've got to be able. I still think that's meeting energy, you know what I mean. I think that she's like I'm embarrassed, and now my, my way to alleviate her is don't be embarrassed, this is totally fine. Yeah, like I'm not upset, I'm not worried about it, you know, and that's, that's the energy I'm going to meet you with. I'm not going to, not going to change my price for you, correct, but but I am definitely going to be gracious and let you off the hook, exactly.
Speaker 1:Like easily, you know yeah.
Speaker 2:No, I like, and I think you're absolutely right, and I, I mean it's not personal. I mean, if somebody realizes, oh my gosh, this isn't at all what I was expecting, I want to know, then I don't want to know after the session. I mean, we right, we all know that. But you know and it kind of goes back to that conversation that I, some of you, I think people think I'm kidding sometimes, but if I do get that, I'm going to. If people say, oh my gosh, this is so expensive, I just agree with them and say, okay, so what can we do? And and if it's not that we're going to work together, that's going to be okay as well. But same thing as you, like, I'm not going to change, but I certainly can offer them other solutions or wish them all the best.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, totally, yeah, I totally understand. Please know that I hope I can work with you at some point in the future and if it's not this year, maybe it'll be another year. Yeah, you know, and just and just move on. You know, and I had to. She was saying that she was confused about you know what, if we just got digital files and we didn't get the box that comes with the prince, and you know, because she wanted the big package, and I said, well, the box with the prince is what comes as a complimentary piece that goes with the digital file, so there's no change in price, you know, for doing it less, again, not a compromise, right, you know? Because even if I took let's pretend I made it but number for what that package costs without the box, right, it's still out of budget, for I know it is. Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:And then I explained that in my studio and I hope in many studios, digital files are the highest valued commodity because it can be reprinted any number of times, it could be enlarged, it could be shared unlimited, Right, and so because of that, it is the most valuable piece that I offer in my studio. So you know, and that photographers offer. You know, artists offer a range, just like any artist that you would, you know, buy their art in a gallery or whatever. You're going to have some artists that the work is $100 and some artists who's worked the same size and possibly even, in your opinion, the same quality, that's a hundred thousand dollars, right, you know what I mean, like, it's more about the artist and you know the work that they create and how they value it. So, but you know, I think it was educational for her and she wasn't mad.
Speaker 2:Well, that's the thing I mean. You know she might tell somebody else. Well, you know this wasn't for me, but this sounds I think you would really like this person or whatever and that happens a lot Somebody that ends up not being the right client for you but because they had such a great experience not being the right client for you, they'll tell somebody else and they're like it wasn't for me, but you're gonna love these guys Like you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:And this in reverse. This is not the type of client that I would start going. Well, I'm out of your budget, but you know who you might wanna call Correct, because honestly, I think that is negative for the. I mean, I think you're putting a client on another photographer who maybe isn't gonna be a great client, you know, and you're also kind of undervaluing the other photographer by suggesting that they may do it for less than you. I agree.
Speaker 2:And I absolutely agree. Now, if it's this very stylized thing for example, one of my really great clients, she loves those very elaborate Santa things I don't do those Right, Totally fine. Of course I found someone I said, okay, this is who I would go to. It wasn't a pricing, it was a style. I don't do that, Like I don't do the newborn sessions. If there's a really great photographer locally that's a member or certified PPA member or whatever, that's what I'm gonna refer, right, Because at least I feel like if they're a PPA member and they've gone through certification or something, they're working on their craft. That's all I can do, you know. But that's different than oh, you want somebody cheaper, we'll call them Because they're real cheap. I mean, no, I would never refer someone cheaper.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not a good look for that photographer either and honestly, they'll be able to find a cheaper photographer.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:You could throw a rock and find one. So I mean, but I do send referrals all the time, like you said, like for specific styles, specific genres. Honestly, if I'm not able to do it, like because I'm too booked or something like that, but yeah, I wouldn't send somebody just because I'm too expensive and then I'll go, but this person does the exact same thing as me and they're 50% less. I mean, that's not good, it's not good for anybody. No, it's not good for me, it's not good for them.
Speaker 2:It isn't, but I like how we're kind of. I mean, I hadn't really ever thought about this piece as being like that story brand level or step of solving a problem, and one of the biggest things that we're taught when we go through story brand is solving it Whether they even knew they had the problem. So that leans into before they even get there. You could clear up a lot of this. Now, you're right. A company sends somebody in for a headshot. You've never even talked to them till they walk in the door. So you're pivoting. That's a live pivot. You got to figure it out right then.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I mean those of us who still photograph weddings. We certainly understand that I mean going.
Speaker 1:You've got to hold those people all day. You got to keep spirits up, you got to keep energy up, you got to.
Speaker 2:And one person's energy is not going to be the same as somebody else's. You might have this one group that's chill, and then you have the high strong and then you have somebody who's not happy. I mean, like there's just there's all kinds of personalities that and depending on the space that I'm in or who I'm working with, I'm going to be kind of mimic their energy, so to speak. Now, not necessarily their negativity. Again, that's not what I mean, but I'm not going to be all cracking jokes if I can tell they're in a very different, they're not laughing.
Speaker 1:I have one client that I've worked with for years this family every single year and they always want an outdoor session and they always want it. We've just been. I've got a plan with them, like I know what we're doing. But every year the dad he comes in shorts and flip flops and he's always on the phone, like with work, like off sides, I'm working with the kids. He's got to take in a business call. He's very important, he's a very big job and the last time we did this we're walking down this path, down this garden, and I'm walking next to him and I look at him and he's just like I can tell and I go. You hate this, don't you Like? You hate being here and he was like I do. I mean, I love he goes, I love what you do and I love the result and I'm willing he goes, but I hate this part. I hate this part so much and I was like yeah, yeah, I got you.
Speaker 1:But we're going to get it done. And then, how about I get you done with the kids first, like all of our little individuals that we always do with you and the girls, and get the group family portraits done quickly, and then, if you need to scoot and just let me work with the girls for the rest of the time, that's fine. Yeah, and he's like that would be awesome. Yeah, because they always come in separate cars, because mom is a stay at home mom with kids and he's working this big job and so he's always coming in hot in his flip flops. No, absolutely.
Speaker 2:We do that too for the selection sessions or the order sessions. If we know we have one of those and it's usually the dad we're like you know what, we're going to come and we're going to go through, we're going to go ahead and just cull through everything. So when you get here, all you're doing is choosing between a couple of poses and finalizing, because if I can tell they're really like that they're always on the phone or they're I don't need them to be there to look A or B, do you like this one? Or you know what I mean? Let's just narrow it down and then let them come in and be a part of the final decision. We do that as well because that's for the order session. I mean anytime I can make it less painful for them.
Speaker 2:And again, guys, we're not taking this personally, right, like it's. We're not taking it personally, which I find that some people do. Some people like well, I'm fun or I'm this, I got you, but it's just, it is painful for some people. It's kind of like some people don't mind the dentist and some people, like me, are definitely afraid of the dentist, like everybody's in a different space. And, as a matter of fact, when I go to the dentist, they know my energy and they are matching it the minute I walk in the door. You know cause they get it.
Speaker 1:But, you know, by the same token, because of all of this pivoting and shifting energy and being everything to everyone when they need it, while still standing your ground and not being pushed, you know, pushed over or bullied, it's exhausting emotionally for you. I would imagine that people who are caretakers or people who are, you know, in the medical industry or people who are in the therapist would, at the end of the day, like shut down. You know, I have had some major times where, like especially during this time of year, which is never my favorite time of year because it is so busy and I am being a lot for a lot of people all at once every day, I emotionally it's very difficult for me at the end, you know, cause I start to just like have, I can't be everything to my family at this point. You know what I mean. I can't solve problems and make decisions at this point because I start to get decision making fatigue, you know, and I just come home and I go. I don't wanna make a.
Speaker 1:You guys pick what you want to eat. You guys pick what you wanna do tonight.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:And then I'm closed off. So it's important for your home life and for your personal life. You got there. It's gotta be some good self-care in there.
Speaker 2:You know like so what is that? So, like one of the couple of things that and I know you're gonna chime in here, but so some things for me that helped me get through, because I know exactly what you're talking about I'm like, oh my gosh, why don't I have I don't feel that as much anymore A couple of things that made it different. I get my personal holiday cards done very early, like I have had mine done since the summer. Number one, number two I am already done. Christmas shopping, like I start in October asking I drive everybody crazy, like all the kids what do you want, what do you want? So my dining room now is Christmas central and it's just ready for me to grab, like I'm stockings or stuff I'm done. And then the other, you know.
Speaker 2:The other piece is that I switched all my client gifting to through the continuously through the year and not trying to pile it all up as I'm a year, which I know, we both have started doing that. So now I don't, I'm not as fatigued and I still, even this time of year, am very, I'm very serious about my desk days and I mean it's gonna happen more this time of year than any. That I'll be like, okay, I'll take one or whatever. But I try very, very hard to keep those days and I've even gotten to the point now where on those days I work from home, because I get too sucked in if I'm at the studio.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you know I make myself feel bad like all week because this week has been slower. That it's allowed me to have more flexibility, like I went and got my nails done and I had a long breakfast with Amanda this morning and you know there was one morning, you know where I just literally I was feeling great when I was talking to you.
Speaker 1:And I was like I have to go home and take a nap, and then I felt bad about taking a nap, you know, and then you know, but the truth is is that it's about to be insane and I need that. I need to be able to do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, we have to replace the shame right Like it versus like, well, I feel bad because I'm gonna go and take a nap. You have to flip that and you have to. I mean, I understand that shame is one option, but what's another option? I can be proud of myself for taking care of myself, because I can be a better mom tonight, or wife or photographer tomorrow, or business owner or boss or whatever Like we have to. Every time, we find ourselves going down like that exact rabbit hole which I'm the worst at, as you know that we have to be able to switch it. So instead of feeling me saying oh, I just feel so bad that I have to say nope, what can I say? That's positive instead of negative, and I think that's really a hard, but it's such a huge shift if you can make yourself do it, and I'm not always successful, but I know I really try. I've really tried this year.
Speaker 2:That's been like one of my things this year to really, really work hard on Cause I just spend. I think we spend so much time feeling guilty or bad or you know whatever those negative words are. I mean, I think you posted something the other day the amount you know a cuss jar versus the amount of times I apologize for something that I absolutely don't have any control over Like.
Speaker 2:I apologize for the weather. I apologize if your pants are too tight, like I. Literally I'm gonna apologize and that's just such a wasted and we do it. We do it to ourselves and you know part of us needs to like if our clients and they're complaining, they kind of want you to take all the risks. You know I'll take the hits, that's kind of my job but we can't do it nonstop because it will. It'll wear you out and I think this time or the never are coming out of this time and I know I've talked about it, I know you've talked openly about it. You know the depression issue can be really bad and who's gonna suffer yourself and or the people closest to you, your spouse, your children you know the people in your inner circle are the ones that are gonna. So the chameleon part needs to stop. When you get home, I guess, is where I'm trying to.
Speaker 1:Well, or you need to save some room so that you can be that for them too. Well, that's true.
Speaker 2:You know that whole Simon T Bailey comment from that couple of years ago. You know they get the best of you and I get the rest of you. Yeah, well, that one's dumb. Yeah, it does. Cause you're like damn, I feel I feel attacked, like how dare you? I think everybody in that room felt that. So you're right. Like if you don't have the compass, if you can't, if you have to, then you need to be as much of a chameleon and cheerleader for them because they have bad days at work or bad days at school or anxiety. Yeah, and just cause you've given everything to your clients doesn't mean you can't, you don't get to not give the best to those people that are gonna be there by your side when you recover from this busy season.
Speaker 2:Right, and it's busy for lots of reasons, even if your studio is not crazy busy which I think all of our studios get a little busy or either you're doing some quick takes or minis or your holiday cards, or just you know people getting that last minute. I know, all of a sudden I have three huge commercial jobs wanting bids and you know one of them is a I mean, one of them is like a seven day job, so it's a. It's a 50 or $60,000 quote that I'm working on but, they're trying to spend the money before then to the year.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't know how many days I have till the end. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Like I'm like what's the end of their year?
Speaker 2:Yeah, when are I gonna fit this in? So of course I don't wanna walk away from that. That's too big of a job, but I'm not sure how we're gonna negotiate that and I'm already tired of thinking about it. I'm grateful but I'm tired, you know so. But talk about being in Chameleon. You can't going from, like photographing a family and then going into.
Speaker 2:We already did our first pitch to them complete, because it's now all of a sudden, me in a machine shop with seven men, one woman and you know what I mean and a very different, very, very different energy bringing to the brain.
Speaker 2:But but you know, but I also, I only think I'll say, kind of like that we have to remember and it sounds like we're throwing a lot at you guys today Even though we do that, it still has to be authentic, right? Like it would be very inauthentic if, all of a sudden, if all of a sudden, you not only were shifting but you all of a sudden pretended like you had a huge interest in the World Series and you were over them and excited that the Rangers won, which I'm sure you already know this because I'm sure you watched the game Sports ball. But it would be weird, right? Nobody be like wait a minute, that doesn't feel real. So there's that fine line too, like I've seen some people that they shipped so hard that I'm like who are you, who is this person? You know, this is when you were little and your mom would do the mom thing and like she would.
Speaker 2:One minute could have been like cussing you outside, like you're about to jerk a knot and you're behind and then somebody walks up and you're like who's this lady? Like did anybody have that? I could see Janet being maybe a little bit like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, she maybe had some moments.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my mom definitely had some moments. Like a teacher would walk up and all of a sudden it's like please don't ever leave, because I was getting in a lot of trouble before you left here. But it has to be authentic. It has to be authentic as well.
Speaker 1:So it definitely has to be authentic, because people can see right through that. And so that's being a chameleon without losing yourself. Correct, like a chameleon isn't suddenly a dog, right like no, you're absolutely right, it's actually always a chameleon yeah, you're always a chameleon, yeah, and I mean.
Speaker 2:but I like the fact that you brought at the point about what you bring home into that base too, because I think we're just I have more regrets than I'd like to admit early on not realizing how toxic that was and toxic's a bidward. But coming home and feeling so justified to be in a crabby mood or don't talk to me or whatever, and I think back and I think, oof, that's so unfair to the people that were so excited for me to walk in the door because I had such a long, terrible day or stressful day. I thought it was okay to take that out on them and it really wasn't. I'm so much more aware of it now but, boy, I wish I could turn back time and be aware of it when they were younger and smaller. You know that's a huge regret I have.
Speaker 1:Well, don't beat yourself up, because everybody does it.
Speaker 2:You know, you learn and you live and hopefully I'm sharing that and somebody will hear it and they won't make the same mistake, because I made a lot of mistakes and the good news is you know, you grow from them or you share them, so other people don't maybe. I don't know, you know, god knows. My kids will let me know now if I make one, that's for sure.
Speaker 2:But all the babies, All the babies. I know, I know it's crazy, oh my gosh, just little. We had a really bad storm come through this week, rather, and Alex calls Daryl in the middle of the night and a tree fell in her backyard and took out her whole electric panel, oh God, so it was just hanging there. So Dominion Power had to cut the power to her house. So of course she came home and then, you know, they had to get an electrician and they had to get the tree removed and, oh my gosh, but it all got cut, it all got fixed. But how scary, right.
Speaker 1:What is this? Yeah, that's scary because, like, if it you know it could, it could be live and dangerous. Well, it was.
Speaker 2:That's why Dominion Power had to rush out, and then, you know, getting the tree removed and then getting electricians, and then Dominion Power had to come back out and plug the power back into the house, which I didn't even know was a thing, but it is. Oh, yeah, yeah, you got to get it back on the grid. I know, get it back on the grid, exactly. So that was a crazy week for Alex, but she's got her new job and going to work every day and her dog Huck's not happy, though speaking.
Speaker 1:No, I Huck's probably pretty used to her being yeah he's very used to it.
Speaker 2:But but this is Halloween week, so this will come out next week, so Halloween will be out, but you guys looked amazing.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you. Yeah, lucy made a fantastic Wednesday. I posted it so if you guys followed me you probably saw it. Fantastic, holy moly, it's better. It's better than I could have hoped for and she's so pleased and so happy and our friend Bethany did her hair and makeup and did such an awesome job. And then we all dressed up and poor Kevin, you know we losing Kevin and I kind of thought that maybe last minute she wouldn't care if we dressed up like Morticia and Gomez.
Speaker 1:You know, because we've been so busy and and I kind of just wanted to wear my skeleton One so you know, onesie, that I wear every once in a while because it had gotten cold enough that I could do it, because it's so hot. And so I was like hey, do you think that maybe I don't have to do Morticia, that I could, I could just throw on the skeleton outfit. And she goes no, you have to be Morticia. And I was like, oh, you're right, you're right, I agreed to throw together a Morticia look. And then Kevin goes, he goes Do you, maybe? Do you think I don't have to dress up? I was just thinking, maybe I don't have to dress up. And she goes no, you're going to be Gomez.
Speaker 1:So he puts the suit on and together as a unit, we looked great, right, like it's very obvious what we are. But when Kevin was just walking with our friend Adam while we were trick or treating him and like people would go Are you a businessman? Yeah, did you dress up like a business man? I could see that. Did you come straight from?
Speaker 2:work, did you just? Yeah, are you going to? Are you going to close on a house or something on the side?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But you'll be together Collectively. You guys, y'all were definitely that as a unit.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, as a unit it was very clear. I can see that, though that's I'm glad that we got a good picture just right before we left the house too, just to sort of, you know, solidify that. And she was so pleased. You know it's all about making Lucy happy.
Speaker 2:Exactly Everyone's happy, everyone's happy.
Speaker 1:Well, that's fantastic. Everyone was pleased.
Speaker 2:Well, I hope everybody had a great time. It was rainy and gross here, so um.
Speaker 1:Oh no, we had great weather. That sucks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, um, and it's hard. I I'm going to be honest, guys, I just kind of put a table and candy at the street, normally because of the dogs. It's just every doorbell is, you know, we don't need to get the dogs involved in everything, and you can't knock on my door and my dogs not get involved. So we usually do something out there, but it was too rainy so, oh, so you couldn't even set up out there, so I skipped it. Oh, that's okay, I know, I know it's I feel bad, but I turned my lights off and well, nobody toilet papered or egged your house.
Speaker 2:Nobody, and I did Smash my pumpkins.
Speaker 1:So, but you know, I haven't seen a toilet papered house in so many years. I don't think that the kids even know to do that anymore. You know and like, or an egged house, like. I feel like that was the thing that, yeah, in my childhood kids did Like. I rolled a house once with my friends.
Speaker 2:I definitely I hate to admit it, but I definitely was part of a group. I was scared to death, but I was there. I was there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, we were all scared to death. I mean, I remember it. So it was at a slumber party at a friend's house and we watched okay, this is where you're going to be like, oh great, we watched speed, okay, on tape, on VHS yes, and that's like canneries and Sandra Bullock yes, and Sandra Bullock, and it was rated R and there was a lot of F bombs in it. And I think I want to say we were in like seventh or eighth grade, seventh grade maybe. And so we're at this slumber party, all girls and one of the boys that we went to school with was lived like down the street. And so not only did we watch speed rated our movie that the mom of the house that we were at was fine with us watching, and my parents I had already seen it, you know because, rated R yeah.
Speaker 1:But he snuck out at late at night and we walked down the street and we toilet papered this boys house. No, right, yes, and it was so exciting. And then it was not my idea, believe it or not, it was also, I was actually very cautious at this age. That went away after a while, but so, but we get back home and one of the girls at the slumber party the next morning, her mom comes to pick her up and she just confesses Right there Everything she just couldn't hold it in. She just went, mom, we watched rated R movie and they were snuck out after 10 o'clock and we roll toilet paper at this boys house and I'm so sorry. You're like she was Cheryl, wow.
Speaker 2:It's so quickly.
Speaker 1:Oh God, so quickly I was. I remember being shocked at how quickly she confessed I was like you haven't even put your shoes on.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, she was like our friend Greg Every time he would eat pancakes, oh yeah, he couldn't even get to the gate without calling Lisa and confessing that's. Yeah, it's a story for another, for another day, but it's kind of like man, you didn't you barely got those pancakes, you were down and you were already confessing. No, she always, she's always going to find out.
Speaker 1:He knows she's going to find out, so you might as well be the one to tell Well, he's going to say he's going to tell.
Speaker 2:He's going to tell it himself. He would have been like that girl he would have, as soon as he got picked up he would have confessed all of a sudden.
Speaker 1:He would have been.
Speaker 2:Not me, man, I would have be like steel trap, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:No, I lips are sealed. I was not going to tell anyone.
Speaker 2:And I'm also like you know, snitches and ditches like uh-uh.
Speaker 1:No no no, no.
Speaker 2:Well yeah, I'm that girl for sure.
Speaker 1:I don't know why we're talking about this. I know.
Speaker 2:Camelions, camelions, Halloween Camelions.
Speaker 1:But when we were coming home, because we love we didn't trick or treat our neighborhood. This year we went to this like neighborhood that's tons of decorations and excitement. So we went and did that one. But we usually, you know, have trick or treaters at our house and we didn't put anything out, you know, and left all the lights off and we got back and goes oh, thank God nobody has rolled our house. And I was like you know when was the last time? Oh, so they would do it if you okay, yeah, Like, if you yeah if you didn't participate.
Speaker 2:I've never seen that in my neighborhood at all, so I've never I think.
Speaker 1:I think that's an 80s thing, I think that's the place with the ring.
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't know how you can get away with anything.
Speaker 1:Oh no, people have too much Like we've, and we've got crazy people on our street that are like booby-trapping their yard and stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know, I mean, yeah, I watched, you know, because I watch a lot of true crime, so they're going to find you on the ring. I mean you couldn't even go down the street without them coming around and like did you see a black truck? I mean, they, I can't believe what they find from people's doorbells.
Speaker 1:Now, like you, oh yeah, and they post them on the group. We have group Facebook groups like neighborhood Facebook groups, like did anyone see the person that went speeding down this one?
Speaker 2:It's you? No, no idea. I don't know, I know it looks like my car, but it's definitely not me. There's a lot of people with this car, so there's not, though have you all seen Gare's car?
Speaker 1:It's a very special color.
Speaker 2:Like I would never own that car because I don't know I could do something bad. And then I I can't lie.
Speaker 1:I mean yeah.
Speaker 2:I saw you just have a black car. You have a very specific color car.
Speaker 1:Yes, I have a very specific color car. That's a very specific model car.
Speaker 2:I won't be getting away with much. Nope, no, ma'am, all right guys, hope you all have a great week and, yeah, take care of yourself and take care of your family, and it'll be over soon. And then we'll be sitting around looking at each other thinking remember when we were really busy, remember when we were so busy.
Speaker 1:Oh, when, like, I'm so worried. Oh my gosh, guys, okay, you can follow us on Instagram at get your shoes together. You can follow us on Facebook at get your shoes together. You can email us at girlygetyourshootsogethercom and subscribe to us everywhere where podcasts are played. We will see you guys next time. Thanks, y'all.