#001 - The Purpose of Plebe Summer at The United States Naval Academy with Commander Mike Murnane

Commander Mike Murnane is Grant Vermeer, the Academy Insider's guest on this podcast. 

Commander Murnane was the commissioned officer in charge of plebe summer for the USNA class of 2020 while Grant was the regimental commander. 

Commander Murnane, a graduate of USNA class of 1995 became a naval flight officer upon graduation and his highly successful career brought him back to the naval academy as a senior officer.  He was the officer in charge of plebe summer and the leader for the sixth battalion during the academic year.

Commander Murnane is a leader Grant holds in the highest esteem and considers him a mentor.  Their conversation and stories about the behind the scenes of running plebe summer give a great insight into plebe summer and the naval academy.

If you want to learn more about how to prepare for plebe summer, Grant recommends many tremendous resources about plebe summer and the United States Naval Academy on his website. 

Be sure to review and follow the The Academy Insider with Grant Vermeer podcast on Apple Podcasts or where you listen to podcasts.

Follow the Academy Insider on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook.

Links Mentioned in the Show

Blog article on Purpose of Plebe Summer

Commander Murnane's Book Recommendations
 
Gates of Fire 
Siddhartha 
Resilience -
The Obstacle is the Way 

The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families.

Grant Vermeer your host is the person who started it all. He is the founder of Academy Insider and the host of The Academy Insider podcast and the USNA Property Network Podcast. He was a recruited athlete which brought him to Annapolis where he was a four year member of the varsity basketball team. He was a cyber operations major and commissioned into the Cryptologic Warfare Community. He was stationed at Fort Meade and supported the Subsurface Direct Support mission.

He separated from the Navy in 2023 and now owns The Vermeer Group, a boutique residential real estate company that specializes in serving the United States Naval Academy community PCSing to California & Texas.

We are here to be your guide through the USNA experience.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Okay.

Speaker 2: 0:03

This is your host, Graham for Mere Naval Academy class of 2017 and on your academy insider. It's my goal to be your guide through the Naval Academy experience by sharing my stories and providing you insight information into the life of a midshipman. Academy insider is in no way officially affiliated with the United States Naval Academy. All of the content on academy insider is my own and does not reflect the views of the United States Naval Academy, the United States Navy, nor the Department of Defense. Welcome to the academy insider podcast in the first episode in the preparing for and understanding plebe summer series. Today I'm joined by Commander Mike Ronayne as we talk about the purpose of plebe summer command and her name was the officer in charge of the class of 20 twenty's plebe summer and served as the six battalion officer for his time at the Naval Academy. Together we had an overwhelmingly positive experience leading plebe summer and getting to work with each other on multiple occasions, specifically second semester of my first a year, my senior year when I served as the six battalion commander. As a result, we wanted to get together and share our knowledge and experience with you guys and I think you guys are really going to enjoy this episode as we share a ton of stories, a ton of fond memories, and it's a really valuable, um, educational and entertaining episode. So I hope you guys enjoy it and let's jump right into it. All right. Hey Sir, thank you so much for coming on and joining us today on the academy insider podcast.

Speaker 3: 1:32

Yeah, happy to be here with you. Grant. Any time, happy to sit and chat about our experiences and catch up with you anytime.

Speaker 2: 1:39

Absolutely. And for all the listeners, I know you already heard the disclaimer, but I do just want to reiterate that everything that meaning commander Manet and say on this podcast are thoughts of our own and do not reflect the naval academy, the United States Navy, nor order the Department of Defense in any official way. Uh, we're just sharing stories and providing our insight from the experiences that we had in the hopes that will provide value to the next generation of Naval Academy Midshipman. But before we get started, sir, if you don't mind just kinda walking through a little bit about your time at the academy. Basically as an alumni, your class year, your company, things that you did at the academy and then you kind of your career path and how you got to where you are today. Yeah, sure.

Speaker 3: 2:17

No problem. So I'm a 1995 Greg. I went there right out of high school in 1991 did my plebe summer in the summer of[inaudible] 91 and my four years at the academy were phenomenal and like a lot of people will tell you the people that you meet there are your friends for life. You know, one of my good buddies, his godparents to my children now. So it's, you know, just some amazing people that I've met along the way. I played hockey and Lacrosse while I was there. I was a recruited athlete for Lacrosse, not highly recruited. Trust me, I was not a, not a top recruit, but I came down and played Jv Lacrosse my freshman year. Then sophomore year I tried to play both Lacrosse and hockey. I made the Varsity Lacrosse team but could not play both sports. It was too much. And my true love was hockey. So I played hockey for the last three years. I was there and could not be more happy with that decision. It was really good for me. I studied ocean engineering and believe it or not that sophomore year when I was doing both sports was what I actually had my best grades. Uh, you know, it's that funny little thing. You'll look back on time management that we learned so well while we're there. I actually had so little time that I had to manage it meticulously and I probably did much better that sophomore year because of all the things going on. Oh absolutely. But yeah, so I graduated in 1995 and I was commissioned as a student naval flight officer. Went down to Pensacola, went through the training there, got winged out in San Antonio, Texas when we used to wing guys through the naval flight officer program at Randolph Air Force Base. And then I went into the p three community. I did two tours as a p three naval flight officer. The p three s were big sub hunters. They've since been replaced by the PA Poseidon, but still same mission out there that we did. So I did tours in Brunswick, Maine as a naval flight officer up there with[inaudible] tool. Did deployments to three different places as a junior officer up until I was a lieutenant. Went to Sigonella twice Keflavik and Rosie roads on a split site deployment. Rosy rose down in Puerto Rico and uh, you know, so on top of Russian submarines, hunted drug hunters, hunted friendly submarines, did surface searches in the Mediterranean. All great stuff away. Cool. Yeah. And then my staff tours included an opportunity to go out to Yukon as a staff officer in Germany. So I got Stuttgart, Germany. I did a year at the war college. And then my command tour was as a provincial reconstruction team, commanding officer and Kandahar, Afghanistan. I did that from 2010 to 2011. And so then after that I went to the bureau of personnel for one more staff tour and then was allowed to come back to the naval academy as a battalion officer. And that was, I was pretty special. I still pinch myself thinking of the opportunity that I've had there. So I really, really enjoyed it. And how do kind of senior officers get to go back to work at the naval academy is staffed by, what's the process for that? Is that simply just a detailing slot or is there an application process with that? It is just a detailing slot, but certainly the senior officer program, the way to get there as a battalion officer is to go through your warfare community in the standard fashion and do your junior officer tour, do your department head tour screen for a milestone or command billet. So I'm a little bit of an exception to the rule. I commanded a provincial reconstruction team, not a squadron. So my career wasn't exactly standard getting to the Naval Academy. But, uh, the standard way of doing it is working through and having the opportunity to command within your warfare whether you're a submarine officer, a surface warfare aviator. Occasionally we get some SPEC war guys come back through, but for the most part, subsurface and air guys get the opportunity to come back and, and the men and women I got to serve with his battalion officers are just incredible people in such a great time.

Speaker 2: 6:13

Absolutely. All right, well, uh, thanks for that. Let's jump into here. So again, the first series really of the academy insider podcast is about plebe summer. And I think a big part of preparing for plebe summer is understanding what you're actually going to go through and embracing the why behind everything that's happening. And for everyone who knows me and knows my story, I didn't really know the why behind plebe summer and I didn't really know what I was getting myself into. And that kind of led to some rough times during plebe summer. So again, I just want to talk about the purpose and the why of plebe summer and why you're going to experience everything that's going to happen. So we're lucky to have command and remain because when I was the regimental commander for the class of 2020 plebe summer commander, my inane was the officer in charge of plebe summer. So sir, if you don't mind just explaining a little bit about what the OIC is and kind of the roles and responsibilities you had while you were the officer in charge. Yeah, so with everything we do, we

Speaker 3: 7:08

do with the academy, there is a lead follow relationship. There's an officer structure that's there to help guide midshipman through these leadership experiences. And so really my primary role was to do all of the staff work to get things set up for plebe summer and to do all of the administrative things that would be required to get this thing going. But then once we went, really once plebe summer starts, my job is to help you as the regimental commander and make sure that you have the leadership experience that you're supposed to get out of that. And I think, you know, by and large, you and I were very successful at doing what we needed to do to get plebe summer going and then make it a success as it went. And so I really enjoyed the time and, and I felt as you know, I was just in that mentor role and, and I had other officers underneath me that I was mentoring through their rules as well. And so I, you know, there's, there's a whole huge staff underneath you, but by and large it's just a mentor role of trying to help the cadre of Midshipman that run plebe summer go get that leadership experience. And that's what I think makes plebe summer, such a valuable part of what we do at the academy. And for the candidates out there that are coming in, you know, that part obviously isn't clear to them. And like you said, the why of what they're about to experience. That's not really wrapped up or clear to them and, and all of the stuff that we do. But the why for them is that transition from being either a fleet returning sailor or a civilian off the street like I was. And you've got to be assimilated within the brigade. You've got to learn military customs, courtesies and culture, and you've got to learn what it means to be a midshipman. And so that in August, when we turn those plebes over to the brigade of midshipmen, they're integrated. They're a part of the brigade. And so that, that's the other why to what we did. And I believe with the class of 2020 we did it pretty well.

Speaker 2: 9:16

Absolutely. And I appreciate you talking about your role as a mentor because everyone listening, I learn so much from commander name and the two of us working together was so much fun. Like there are so many times where, and Doug, you're on plebe summer is extremely stressful as a detailer. Well, I wouldn't just walk into his office and sit down in his chair and be like, sir, I don't, I don't know what's going on. And I need some help, I need some advice and just bounce off ideas. And um, it was just truly phenomenal. And then also as the rich commander, we get to partake in all of the like operations briefs that go on at the officer level, like the actual lead summer staff. So to get to sit in and watch how plebe summer runs from an extremely high level was a really unique and interesting experience. So it led to me and commander marinade having a phenomenal relationship, which we then get to continue into the academic year as well, which was also a ton of fun. It ended with so crazy enough command and Renee and actually took us to a climb the chapel dome. So the Naval Academy Chapel, you can actually go up and climb command and Renee and climbed the chapel dome. I climbed about half of it before I got way too scared and stopped by the heights are not my favorite, but it just goes to show an example of the detailer and officer staff, whether it's at the company level between the company detailers and their company officer or at the regimental level between the regimental staff and the plebe summer OIC. Those mentor mentee relationships that the officers have with the detailers is just truly a really special piece of plebe summer. Yeah,

Speaker 3: 10:50

couldn't agree more.

Speaker 2: 10:52

Absolutely. So kind of with that, we talk a little bit about detailers and I'm sure a lot of people are wondering again because details, they seem so scary coming on like on the way in, but at the end of the day really they're just midshipman. But then when you think, oh well they're just been shit man, how do we know they're qualified? So sir, if you don't mind just talking a little bit about how detailers make plebe summer, what it is and what training do they receive in order to be qualified and competent to do that?

Speaker 3: 11:18

Sure, yeah. We go through a pretty rigorous process of selecting the midshipman that will participate as plebe summer detail owners. Many of them come to us during the academic year asking to be a part of it. Some of them have to kind of have the arm put around them and be told, I think you'd be really good at this and I want you to experience this. And so there's a little more coercing for some folks, but by and large we put a staff together that is some of the best Midshipman we have in the brigade. And I think midshipman intuitively know the importance of what plebe summer is. Yeah, I know that they know it's hard. And so the midshipman that sign up to do it, they know they're getting themselves into a big challenge. And so right away you've got folks that have had two or three years of time at the academy under their belt and they want to give back and they want to get that leadership experience. And so those folks are always inspiring to lead. It's obviously not every single one of them that is itching to come back. And do that and like I said, some have to be told and so yeah, we have a training program in the spring semester called the leadership development and education program, El depth that we put the detailers through to make sure that there's a baseline level of knowledge, what they're about to embark on. You'd never know, you know as a plebe, you're just following orders and you're going and doing what they tell you to do and you feel like you can never do it fast enough. You can never do it well enough. You can never get it done. Exactly right. And of course that's by design. It is always a demanding, challenging, difficult environment that we put people in to ensure that there's a stress component to doing our job. Our job in the fleet is going to involve a lot of stress and this is the first inoculation. This is the first time you get to experience it, but when you experience it as a plebe, you have no idea how hard the people running it are working. One of the things I know is, is UC from, from our side of things as a detailer or a staff running plebe summer, you see that folks finally understand it's so much harder to run plebe summer than it is to be a plead with him to the summer. And it's just so, it's so true. And one of the things that everyone looks back on, you know, their own plebe summer and many academy grads will tell you they had the last real plebe summer and you and I both know that's not true. You never experienced plebe summer twice. You'd never get that point of ignorance, that point of not knowing what you don't know. And that's part of the anxiety of being a plebe. You just don't know what you don't know. Getting comfortable, being uncomfortable as major antenatally like to say, you get comfortable being uncomfortable and you start to understand that it's okay not to know everything and to get yelled at and to learn on the fly, you're going to get yelled at in your life. And that's a part of what we do. It's a tough business with exacting standards. And so this is the very first inoculation. It's not the most intense navy training that is out there, but it is intense navy training for folks that do it for the first time. It's quite difficult from the ple perspective and from the detail perspective and like you and I both know, you look back on your own detailers and remember them and some you remember fondly and some you don't remember fondly. And we tried our plebe summer to make sure that our detailed staff or the kind of people that were going to be remembered and respected. Yup. It's okay not to be remembered fondly, but to be respected and to know that you gave it your all and did everything you could do. That's what it takes. And so that leadership development program that we put the details through prior sets, that baseline, there's, there's a few courses that we take care of and some tests that we do right before the detailing set. But by and large we have a qualified staff ready to go and they don't know what they don't know either. And once the plebes hit the deck, that's when the real learning starts.

Speaker 2: 15:28

Absolutely. And it's so true when you talk about the details staff like you don't have to be liked but you need to be respected. And that was kind of something that I really wanted when I was Reggie commander. We talked a lot with my staff about, hey, we need to set the standard and set the expectation of what being a detailed is going to be about. And for us being a detailer was embracing a culture of discipline where we treated everyone with dignity and respect. Like you're saying, it is a difficult navy training, but it should never cross the line into anything that is inappropriately degrading in any way, shape or form. We're here to transform and develop people to get them ready to become members of the brigade of midshipmen. That was our goal. That was the whole purpose of this transition from being a civilian to a military, break the old habits and create new ones and then build them up to be ready to join the brigade. And while you were doing that, it's very easy to have a memorable experience when you're doing that with a lot of enthusiasm and energy. You never remember the details that were like just kind of there and not really doing anything. So we always talked about having a really positive attitude and working extremely hard and practicing exhaustive leadership because when you're a detailer, you only have three weeks. There are two sets to plead summer, there's a first set in a second set of details, so you have three weeks to make the impact and leave kind of your training legacy on them. And so you need to not miss a single moment of doing that. So practicing exhaustive leadership, having enthusiasm, having energy and doing all of that with an aspect of dignity and respect. That was kind of my intent when I was a reg commander for our detailed staff because I wanted everyone by commanding. Renee was saying to be remembered as memorably but in a positive fashion and not necessarily for like being nice like, oh they were cool, but it was like, no, they were good at their job. They worked hard. They treated everyone with respect and they were a great detailer and so that was kind of what I wanted for all of our detailers and like made him run it and said, I think it went extremely well. Like the company and platoon staff that we had for the class of 2020 is plebe summer was phenomenal. There were like zero issues at all. Everyone was doing extremely well and it was just fun to watch and I have such fond memories of being a detail or that summer. It was really good

Speaker 3: 17:44

time. Well for those of you listening out there, you can hear now why we grant to be the regimental commander of that plebe summer class. That was so well stated. I could not have said it better myself and grant impressed us back then when we interviewed him. Right. So the very, see I want to add that in there. At the very senior staff we convene a panel of senior officers, all the battalion officers and the deputy commandant and we interview these Midshipman that want the high leadership positions and the competition is fierce. There are like 70 midshipman that come into that room and it's a tough room. Senior Officer's Oh five oh six is in a command master chief sitting in there and they've got to come in and answer about eight minutes worth of questions. By the time they get comfortable answering questions, we're telling him to leave and, and that year I do remember just really enjoying the interview process. We had a great staff, like you said, in between you and Julia Arthur, who was the other regimental commander. I could not have asked for two better leaders to be at the top of the midshipman chain of command. And it made my life so easy. So thank you again grant. Absolutely. I appreciate it. If you don't mind. So I was actually going to bring up the, the whole Stryper interview process next. What were you actually looking for in people during their interviews when it came to filling the spots in the billets that were available for plebe summer stripe? Our staff? Yeah, that's a, that's an interesting question because the first time I sat on the stripe or board, I realized as a Midshipman, I never went to a Stryper board. Am I? Look now, I was, it was humbling man. I'll tell you their grant, you and Julia and so many others that came into that room to interview had such great composure. We're articulate. You could convey a sense of command and leadership philosophy and ability to respond. And we knew, we knew how pressurize that room was. Shoot, even one of us walking in and even though we know each other in, they're starting to get grilled by that group of people and nobody's comfortable in that situation. And so it sure is. And it, I mean I know it's by design and you sit across the table and everybody else is on the other side of the table and man there's no glass of water and site and get parched real fast. And I've seen great mid ship and go into that room and have a hard time being able to articulate their thoughts and plans and goals and, and their leadership philosophy and that sort of thing. And it's, you know, that the pressure of plebe summer is to the point we can't have someone that's gonna fold underneath the pressure. And so that room is designed to be a little bit pressure packed. But we bring the stripers in and we grade each one of you guys out. And when I say stripers, I'm talking about the people that have the high leadership positions. And so we, we grade every one out. And you know, I, I know when you came through grant, I gave you the highest of anyone that came into that room and that it was an easy decision for me. And I know my colleagues in that room, many of them just put their pens down and sat back and smiled in their chair as you conducted that interview. So it was inspiring then as your last speech was, it's inspiring now to listen to you and I know you're, you're already doing great things in the fleet and that's as a result of some of the great lessons that you got to learn going through the

Speaker 2: 21:13

tribulations that you had to go through and at the academy. I really, really appreciate the kind words sir. Okay. Yeah. So once we get to the summer now, so everyone has been slated, everyone's been pigs, we have the plebe summer detailing staff all set out during the lead up time and during the summer. What lessons were you trying to teach your officer's staff? So all the o three is working for you and then what were you trying to get the like the company level leadership to teach their details? Like what were some of the big lessons that you wanted people to get out of plebe summer? From the detailing side of things?

Speaker 3: 21:49

Yeah, so everyone needs to understand one, that servant leadership is way harder than just being a follower. And you know, everyone talks about, oh, plebe summer, plebe year is the worst year and it's difficult and everything else. Well I definitely believe that the harder thing is leading and inspiring your peers. And so I've talked with the officer staff a lot about peer leadership, about how difficult it is to inspire your peers and to get them to do what you need them to do. And you know, you guys during the academic year all have that same rank or you know, close to it. And so, or at least coming in as second class, Mitch Shipman, you were all just second class midshipman juniors at the United States Naval Academy. And so now here you are with someone who's been through the same amount of training is you and you have more stripes on your shoulder and you're told to go ahead and lead them. Hey, that is the way of the military. And that happens in an actual, uh, you know, the military, once you, once you get out there and join the fleet, you know, people will be promoted up the ranks faster. And so at some point in time you'll be looking at up here and they'll either have a rank higher than you are lower than you. And dealing with that, that pure leadership aspect is so key time management is so difficult and being able to predict all of the different things that are going to happen, which are, it's impossible to predict the future. We know that. But to predict the trouble spots and to have plans and courses of action and things ready to go for when things don't go right, everyone has a plan but no plan survives first contact. And you know, we had a great plan for how Ida was going to go and we had to shuffle multiple times just on induction day to make sure that it worked. And you know, every day there's that challenge. And then as the fatigue sets in after the three or four day point, I remember talking a lot to the staff about, okay, they're going to now feel the exhaustion of the adrenaline pump is done, ideas come and gone. We've had that experience. We've gotten into a little bit of a rhythm and now exhaustion is going to start setting in and they're going to realize, oh my God, I'm working 18 or 19 hours just to try and make sure that they're, you know, 14 hour day goes smoothly and it is not easy. And so the ability to mentor and help people see that they need to develop rest plans and they need to take care of themselves so that they can do their job well. And again, it's another great fleet lesson. But that's, that's one of those things where the or staff has to really be sharp and monitoring their people and looking out for those signs of fatigue and for those small mistakes and those little things that, you know, when, when the little mistakes happen, that's when you know, big mistakes start to follow. And so you want to catch it at the little mistakes, correct it, do it, you know, in a good, tactful manner. And you know, typically as we like to say, you know, praise in public and reprimand in private, you take someone aside and private and make those little corrections. And then move them on and then, you know, you watch that growth and development, that Aha moment of, Oh, I get what you're saying now. And you see that happen. And man from the, from the officer's side, it's so inspiring to watch it. It's, trust me, it was just as exhausting for me. And I remember criminals who ski ordering me to take a weekend off and go let Lieutenant Colonel Coleman take charge of things. And we don't like to do that. We don't like to let go of things. But it is, it's a great lesson. And it was an example that I had to, I'm trying to teach it to you guys if I don't follow it, what kind of an example am I setting? And so it's, it's an amazing way of looking at the prism of your own career and all of the experience you've had and what you've learned and the ability to share it. I know, I know I said this many times when I got back to the naval academy and a lot of different people, but I felt like every tour that I had led me to my battalion officer tour because every tour that I did in the navy, there was a story I could tell and share with you guys that could somehow marry up to what we were learning, what we were doing, what was going on, and it could help teach a lesson. And you know, if we learn, if we learn lessons from a anecdotes and stories, it's a lot better than learning it the hard way.

Speaker 2: 26:15

Absolutely. And so one of the big things that stuck with me that you always would talk about is the idea of being a teacher, coach and mentor. And I just like, I love that you're talking about the idea of arrest plan and making sure that you are properly getting the right amount of rest and doing everything that you're going. Because that was something that felt like, again, I didn't want to do it. It's the same thing I was talking about earlier with exhaustive leadership or I was like, I only have three weeks I to do everything. But it was those conversations with you and realizing that you not need to take that time off because I am a big believer in the power of presence and that's something that I tried to incorporate every single day was constantly walking around brain cop, tall, constantly being present, all of the different companies just so I could be there and see that everything that was going on. But if you are not ready, you're not rested. If you are too tired to really be present in the moment, like you might actually physically be there, but you're not there, you're not present in the moment. And that was such a major lesson that I learned during Plebe Summer Cause of your coaching and your mentorships that like in order to be present somewhere, you really need to be present. In order to be present, you have to be focused on that situation. The only way to do that is to making sure that you are taking care of yourself so that way you're adequately able to do that. So I just want to say thank you because that was one of the biggest lessons I learned and going out onto deployment now where I've been on three different deployments, it's very easy to drive yourself to the point of exhaustion where you are not operating at the level you should be and making sure that you take the appropriate rest and trusting in your chiefs and trusting in your first class to lead so you are able to kind of take the rest that you need in order to be leading at the, your prime ability is so important. And that was just such a major lesson I learned through my time as a detailer and as a direct result of your teaching, coaching and mentorship. So thank you so much. And for all the parents and everyone listening out there, if you have a son or a daughter that is going to be a detailer or eventually wants to be a detailer, like building these relationships with the officer's staff, I'm, that's where you learn all of the major life and leadership lessons because those are things that just you can't have, they just don't happen unless you make an effort to build these relationships. So sir, I just want to say thank you so much because it was a tremendous opportunity to experience.

Speaker 3: 28:39

Well, I was always humbling and inspiring to work with you grant, because I recognize that my time is a bit shipping. I was not quite as successful as you are as a midshipman. And so it always made me feel better that I had something to offer now later on in my career rather than, uh, not offering much. Back when I was a midshipman and there's, you know, there was nothing wrong with my time as a midshipman. I learned a lot of great lessons and there were amazing things that I got out of it. But I can honestly say it's a gift that keeps on giving. You know, as I see you guys out in the fleet, anyone that I worked with, it's been so rewarding to run back in to you guys and the fleet and to hear the stories about what you're doing in the fleet and how it relates to directly back to things we did. And yeah, and so those plebe summer lessons, I knew I wasn't just trying to teach you some abstract theory that you would never use again in your life. I was teaching you something that you know, hopefully you put to use right away. It sounds like. You sure did. And so again, it's really rewarding to me to, to, to hear those stories back again. And you were one of the easy ones to teach coach and mentor.

Speaker 2: 29:47

I appreciate it, sir. All right, moving on now to, um, we talked about the detailing staff. We, we mentioned that there's a company officer and a senior enlisted leader with each belief summer company. Sir, if you don't mind just explaining a little bit about the role of each company officer and senior enlisted leader during plebe summer.

Speaker 3: 30:04

Yeah. Well I'll tell you even I'll, I'll dial it back a little bit further. That senior enlisted leader thing started when I was a midshipman. They started sending enlisted personnel back to the academy. It's one of the greatest things we've done at the naval academy is and incorporating, you know, chief petty officers, you know, gunnery sergeants and senior enlisted personnel, you know, they get to look at you guys and they know that in a couple months, a year or two, you're going to be the one leading them and they have a real vested interest in making you the product that they want to be led by man, that it's magical. So those, those senior enlisted leaders and the plebes summer companies, man, they offer just an amazing insight to life in the fleet. There are great conduit between our fleet returning sailors that are going to go through it, go through the academy experience and they can translate a lot of things. And so that experience is so invaluable. The senior chiefs, the gunnery sergeants, all of those folks participating at the senior enlisted level. And so they're paired with a company officers. And so the company officer is a, you know, a lieutenant who has come back off of sea duty from their first operational tour. And so they're in their first shore duty tour where there, you know, many of them have come back to the academy, you know, that our academy grads themselves and many of them have not, it's not a majority, but you know, a sizable minority of them are not academy grads and they, it doesn't matter whether you have an academy Grad or not, all of them come back and they, they learn more about managing larger numbers of people and that, that mentoring role and the fleet experience that they can share. It's so close to what you guys are going to go experience that it's just an invaluable resource for the, for the Midshipman and then for the company officer to practice that, that kind of leadership. And so they get to mentor each one of the companies. So a smaller number of midshipman underneath them. Uh, they have a smaller group to kind of look out for the day to day operations while the more senior folks look at the, the entire operation and, and the, and the larger picture. But they kind of get involved right knee deep in it with the company level leadership. And so that, that mentorship role I think really works well and some of just their fleet experience drives them to be superb company officers. And it's, it's so fun to watch the mentorship and their ability to connect to the detailers and inspire them to, you know, to lead boldly and to do great things and to understand that they're gonna work harder than they perceive the plebes to be working. And so that, I got to witness a lot of that during really both plebe summers that I served in, but certainly our plebe summer. It was, it was great to watch and observe. Absolutely. All right. Now we're going to get a little bit, a little bit more personal user. Do you have a favorite memory or a story from either your plebe summer or from your time as the plebe summer OIC? Well shoot. Uh, I would say my plebe summer, my favorite memory, which still to this day makes me and several of my friends laugh, but a, I remember we were in the hallway and there was some squad leader instructional period going on, which really translated into a lot of PT for us. Plebes, we were doing a lot of flutter kicks and pushups and that sort of thing, instructing you not to suck so bad. Right. That's right. And just trying to inspire me to be a better version than me. Well, I do remember at one point in time I got put down in the pushup position and a copy of midshipman regulations made it on the floor underneath my face while I was doing pushups in the squad leader told me to read from the paragraph while I was stuttering and stammering while he's saying down and up and, and I was having a really hard time reading it. Well, the reason I was having a hard time reading it is the book was upside down in front of me. All my buddies that were standing on the wall getting yelled at in a position of attention, couldn't, you know, they were not allowed to look down and see what was happening with me. Well, one of my very good friends shared with me later that year that he thought I was illiterate and he couldn't, he couldn't figure out how I got into the naval academy and I couldn't even read a book. This is her name. Yeah, exactly. It was totally that sort of thing. And it, of course I didn't find out about until four months later we wound up striking off as friends and hanging out together. And you know, after the First Army Navy game that we went to, which was a navy when my plebe year, it makes it all, all that much better. It was a lot of fun and we were sharing stories and that story came out. So I think that one I've told many, many times and I, and I really, I really love it, but um, you know, I think my favorite memory of our plebe summer actually occurred before plebe summer started in that was when, you know, I got you and Julia together and we started talking about what was in front of us and the work that we were going to have to put in. And I just remember that from the previous year, my experiences, the officer in charge, I learned a couple of lessons that I thought were really important. So I started to try and share them with you guys. And before I could even elaborate on what I was talking about, you and Julia had it, man, it was so inspiring that I think I remember starting to relax once we named our stripers and you and Julia were in charge and you guys would come to the meetings and you would have input. You would have just really good insight into what was going on and what needed to be done such that when, you know, right before I day getting ready for first set and then right before the turnover to second set, all of that hard work was already done before we got there. And I knew, you know, the year before is the assistant officer in charge that those are critical periods. Those are hard times and you and Julia made it that much better because you guys put hard work in ahead of time. And so my memory of that is pretty acute and pretty great. I won't lie and say that as the last parade of plebe summer went by, I did have a smile as I got on the gun, on the bus to ride back over to alumni hall with a distinguished visitors and just said, oh, thank God. Uh, I think, you know, there's one other picture that I savored up on the podium at pep. Someone took a picture of me just enjoying watching all of the plebes run off the field. That may have been you that took it. Uh, but I save her that picture because I remember it was close to the end of the summer. It was one of our last pep sessions and I, I do remember feeling pretty rewarded at that point in time. So I gave you a couple extra memories more than what gas for, but uh, as we reminisce, I have a lot of fond memories of that summer.

Speaker 2: 37:22

Oh, I absolutely love it. Thank you for sharing all of those. I really appreciate it. All right, so sir, the majority of our listeners are people actually that are about to come for plebe summer. So a lot of people who have received their a appointments to the Naval Academy. And so as we talk to them, what is your best piece of advice for anyone about to go through plebe summer?

Speaker 3: 37:44

Yeah, it is going to be a stressful event and right now be comfortable with the fact that it will be stressful. My mother still remembers dropping me off at alumni hall at the doors to go in and start the induction day. I day process and I don't know who it was. It was a member of the plebe summer staff. But someone came up to my mother and grabbed my mother and she could, they could see the concern on her face and they said, don't worry ma'am, we haven't lost one yet. And to this day, to this day, I don't know if he was talking about a mother or a plea, but either way it was comforting to her. And so I will tell the parents that have anxiety about that moment, that it's, it's okay. It's a great journey. You'll see them at the end of the, and you will be amazed already at the transition that has happened to your son or daughter at that point in time as they're standing in front of you in a, in a uniform with a new haircut of sorts and in a new look on their face. But what you're going to embark on is going to change who you are in a profound way for the good. It's going to teach you the sacrifice of hard work. It's going to teach you how to prioritize time, manage and become the best version of yourself. And so if you embrace it, if you embrace it as a challenge, don't think about all the things that you're giving up, you're missing out on or anything else. Do you embrace that challenge and understand that that four year road is lightning fast? It happens before you know it. It's not that long of a seven week or eight week summer from when you get dropped off to when you, when you have parents weekend, and then when you joined the brigade. And then there's just little milestones all along the way that you have to look forward to. And Man, that climbing of Herndon at the end of plebe year, boy that's, that's something that you think about all plebe year long. What that's gonna feel like. And it feels as good as you imagine it to feel. And then every one of those milestones along the way feels as good as you imagine it. And so just to understand, you don't run a marathon in one big step. You run it many short steps and you have to persevere and you have to have, you have to have some tenacity and, and you got to learn about yourself along the way. So be open to learn about yourself. Show up in good shape, the physically fit when you get there. You don't want to have to try and get into shape over plebe summer. That makes plebe summer markedly more difficult if you have get, yeah, so do show up in shape and then enjoy it. It is. You're gonna. You heard me, you know that was 1991 I hate to admit that 28 years on, I can still vividly remember doing pushups over the top of that mid and regulations book. And so you're going to create some memories that are going to last. They're going to last. So embrace that and know that it's a fundamental experience to who you will be. Whether you eventually graduate or not, doesn't even matter. It's a fundamental part of who you will be for the rest of your life is that you're going to experience something that not a lot of people get an opportunity to experience. Yeah, without a doubt. So

Speaker 2: 41:12

I'm just going to go ahead and try and summarize what we've been talking about a little bit really quickly. And so I think after all of this discussion, which has been absolutely tremendous and extremely valuable, I think we can simplify it as this is that there are detailers and officer and senior list of staff that are carefully selected, well trained and they did it because they want to be a part of this development and growth process, right? The objective of plebe summer is to indoctrinate you into becoming military members, to transition for being a civilian into a military member and then basically build you into a basically trained midshipman that is ready to join the brigade. And all of this allows the detailers to get this defining leadership experience that we talk about with all the, the teaching, coaching and mentoring in this real world experience of leadership in leading plebes that I want to get across to the point that everything that happens during plebe summer, a lot of it will not be fun. It will be very stressful and there'll be a lot of pressure, but it is not personal. None of it is ever personal. We are there with a job and we do it because we care and we do it because we care about the plebes and we want them to become the best versions of themselves as people and leaders as they can possibly be. So that's always my best advice is realize that whenever you feel like you may be getting a lot of negative attention, potentially, it's never personal and it's always in the best interest of you, whether or not whether or not it feels like it in the moment. So I think those are kind of some of the really, really big things and command of her name. Thank you so much for coming on to talk about it. But before we finally wrap up, we do have a lightning round of quick questions here for you to answer. Ready to go, most of which is what is your favorite spot

Speaker 3: 42:57

on the yard? There's a chestnut tree across from the chapel and for whatever reason, walking from my house to Bancroft Hall every day, for some reason, just walking underneath that chestnut tree, it's out on just to offer stripling walk. But on a, I forget the name of the wok that it's on, but it's one of the curves paths along the way and it's just, it's just a neat, really old tree and I can't imagine the number of amazing military people that have walked past that chestnut tree. So that's, I think that's my favorite spot on the yard.

Speaker 2: 43:35

That's really cool. That's a unique answer and I love it. All right, sir. Well, what a, either from your time as a Midshipman or, uh, as battalion officer, what's your favorite meal in Cain Hole?

Speaker 3: 43:47

Chicken tenders with pool. A sauce. Come on, man. I did not instruct you on this. God, I feel, why is that what I know. So you guys, so captain Hughes the suffer while we were there, brought it back your senior year there was a picture of this mushroom cream sauce that's way sauce and I tried to get you guys to dig in and no one in your class really liked it. But when we were midshipman and the bin of chicken tenders would come out, especially as a plead, you would get dispatched from your table and you would have to go politely asked the King Hall workers if you could get one extra tray of chicken tenders, if there were any extras left. And so when the chicken tenders and pool a sauce we're out, that was always job in my squad is a plead. So that was my favorite meal.

Speaker 2: 44:35

Fantastic. All right, the next one, and I forgot to put it in the outline, so sorry, uh, is, what's your favorite book? And then kind of along that is, is there a book that you would recommend for someone who was about to head to the Naval Academy for plebe summer? They can be the same book, but I just kind of preface it in two ways.

Speaker 3: 44:53

Yeah, I've read, so this is gonna take me full circle to where the people listening are on my interview with the folks, the blue and gold team, to get my nomination to the academy. They asked me about tell us about the books you've read and I gave him an answer and I hope some of you recognize it. I said, I've read dozens of books about heroes and Crooks and I've learned much from both of their styles. And so that's a Jimmy Buffett quote. Okay. But I used it in my interview and no one called me on it when I use that line in the interview. But, but I have read a ton of books and I will tell you a couple of books that are always on my shelf. One is gates of fire by Pressfield 11 you know, we, we read it when we were there, it was assigned to us to read and it was a second read for me. It's what the movie 300 is based on. But I love that book. And as a military person I I find a lot of great joy in that one. I read a book in high school called Siddhartha Herman. Hess is the author of that one and it's a, it was kind of an eastern philosophy Buddha sort of thing, but it's about the journey of a young man to adulthood and finding that inner peace and it's a short read, but it's one I would recommend to everyone and anyone. Another book I read while I was at the academy recommended to me by one of my company officers because he felt that a lot of things that I talked about were within this book and it's called resilience. Resilience is a book written by a former, a former navy seal, Eric Greitens. He's got a bit of a colorful past here recently and so I hesitate to lead with that one, but I will tell you that resilience, the book is a phenomenal read for anyone that's undertaking difficult tasks, whatever it is, resilience is the key to life and there's, there's a book out there I haven't gotten to yet but I'm going to read. It's called the obstacle is the way, and it's a little bit of a stoic philosophy. I really believe in embracing challenges in your life. Nobody writes books about how easy it was to do what they did. Everyone writes books about the challenges they overcame. And so that resilience book talks a lot about the qualities and characteristics of a resilient person and it's a bunch of personal letters from Greitens to a former seal team member who was having a real hard time coming back. The civilian world and living as a civilian is marriage was on the rocks, his job was on the Roxy. He just had a hard time. But the letters that he writes back to them are absolutely filled with wisdom and I was really impressed by that book. So, so real quick, those are a are three books that that I could tell you I think would fit for anyone about to embark this journey.

Speaker 2: 47:53

Absolutely, man. That's great. I need to read two of those. Gates of fire is one of my absolute favorite. Yeah. In front of it. Let's say. It just provides so much commentary and insight into leadership. But specifically military leadership and the role of an officer within the military unit. And so on top of it just being an entertaining story, there's so much insight in, in great wisdom that you get out of it. So, uh, thank you for those recommendations and great. The last question is what advice would you give to any of your children if they were attending the Naval Academy?

Speaker 3: 48:28

Yeah, that's funny. You would ask. I tried. I tried to make that my oldest daughter is going to college this year, so she's, she has chosen not to go to a service academy and that's okay. I'm all right with that. But if I was going to sit one of my children down, the advice I gave a few minutes back about embracing the challenge about understanding that this is shaping who you are, someone who is willing to take on something harder than most other people. Embrace that opportunity, thrive in that environment and you will succeed no matter where you go. Those qualities, they get learn this. This is why Naval Academy grads have a good reputation around the world, regardless of whether they serve a career in the military are not the things that you learn in an all service academies, the things that you learn in a service academy. It just shows that you have a humble nature, willing to work hard and that you'll take on the big challenges. And I love that reputation and I do everything I can to, to maintain that reputation. And I've tried to instill it in my own children as I've got four crazy children of my own.

Speaker 2: 49:43

Well, sir, thank you so much for coming on in the academy and Senator podcast and sharing some of your, your insight and just true wisdom and kindness. And so thank you so much. Really, really appreciate it.

Speaker 3: 49:55

My pleasure. Grant anytime for you, certainly. Uh, but I really enjoyed that role in that time at the academy and, and I love our alma mater and I love to call it our alma mater now.

Speaker 2: 50:07

Absolutely. I'm glad to call it. I'm a moderate too, for sure. All right, well thank you so much and for everyone listening. Thank you for tuning in and I hope you all have a great day. Thanks. Thank you all for listening to this awesome podcast episode with Commander Mike. Morning. Please make sure to leave a review of academy insider on and be sure to subscribe to the podcast. If you want to know more about plebe summer, check out my video online course in which I go over in detail about how someone should repair for plebe summer, physically, mentally, emotionally, and logistically. You can find that and articles about plebe summer on my webpage, www.academy insider.com all links discussed in the show are listening to the show notes below and cu, including links to all of the books that come in from her name brought up. Um, grant for Amir, your academy insider. Thank you so much for letting me be your guide to the Naval Academy.