Tuk Smith (Tuk Smith & The Restless Hearts, ex The Biters)

Tuk Smith is a singer, songwriter and music producer. He was formerly in the band The Biters but now fronts his own project called Tuk Smith and The Restless Hearts.  The band has released one full album in 2022 and more singles leading up to a full album this year. We discuss the music business, landing the opening slot on the Motley Crue Stadium tour, working with producer Rob Cavallo (Green Day, Paramore), staying true to yourself and more!

00:00 - Intro
00:14 - Inspiration To Be Yourself
04:25 - New Melodic Pop Rock Music
07:45 - Producing, Recording &  Writing Songs
09:45 - Rob Cavolo & Shelved Album
10:45 - Making Own Record
11:39 - The Biters & Band Dynamics
15:04 - Partying, Heroes, Songwriting & Sobriety
18:25 - Motley Crue & Allen Kovacs Connection
25:50 - Music Business & Strategy
31:57 - Outro

Tuk Smith and The Restless Hearts:
https://www.tuksmithandtherestlesshearts.com/

Chuck Shute linktree:
https://linktr.ee/chuck_shute

Transcript

Chuck Shute: 0:13

You're kind of like an inspiration to me recently because an interview, I mean, your music to IVs I can't play music. I mean, you wouldn't be an inspiration musically, but just your attitude because you kind of had I listened to an interview where you kind of had this thing. You're kind of like at a crossroads, basically. And they were kind of trying to push you to be more commercial and cover pop songs and things. And you were kind of just like, I don't want to do this, like this doesn't. I think the quote you use that stuck with me was something about when I look back on my career, when I'm on my deathbed, or when I'm old or whatever, like, I want to look back and have works created that I am proud of, rather than, you know, how many Spotify downloads you got, or whatever?

Tuk Smith: 0:57

Totally, I mean, I think even if I tried to do it, it wouldn't work. Because it would feel disingenuous to me, if that makes sense. Like, I think I'm not physically capable of doing both things that feel like bullshit to me. And that's probably one of the reasons why I'm not where I think I should be in my career, but I honestly can't help it. Okay,

Chuck Shute: 1:22

that's interesting. Yeah. Okay, because I struggle with that as a podcaster. Because I'm like, Okay, I gotta have on the big people love the big names, right, the big name guests, but some of them I'm like, Ah, not really interested in this person. But I know it'll get clicks. And it's like, I definitely couldn't do that every episode. But I feel like, I almost feel like I have to throw one of those in like, once a week, or once every other week or something. And you don't feel like you should maybe like, throw a cover in or like a song that is record label, push, just like, on top of the 12 or 13 great tracks that you've already written?

Tuk Smith: 1:56

No, because I'm an artist, and artists are the ones that are supposed to be driving culture. And so I've lived a wild ass life. And not only that, I've like, busted my ass trying to figure out how to write songs, hours and hours. And I've wrote songs wasted in written tons of shitty songs. So at this point, no, I don't want to cover I ended up they broke me. And I ended up covering a lot of Delray song and it was like, and I have nothing against Lana Del Rey. But you know, I was accused of not giving them the marketing tools they needed for my record, so I might as well just fucking quit. You know, so you kind of you know it. And there's great things about labels, but it's just, I guess, if you want to play that game, and a lot of people are able to, and it feels genuine to them, and more power to you. So I'm not talking shit on people who want to do this cover songs, just this is a personal thing for me.

Chuck Shute: 2:51

Yeah, because I feel like some bands almost prefer the covers, like they love doing covers. And they'll put them on, it'll put like three or four covers on their album and stuff. And it's like, I don't know, it's interesting.

Tuk Smith: 3:02

I mean, let do to each his own, I want to do things that feel genuine to my soul. And it's just the only reason they labels want you to cover is because it ties into quote, unquote, algorithms, and they try to tether you to the other band stuff. So you can do some computer generated shit to get streams and cliques. And that's not why I got into this.

Chuck Shute: 3:24

No. Okay, so then like, what is that a part of it like, don't you? Because it's like you just said earlier? You said you're not where you think you should be? Right? So you think you should be I mean, I think you should be more popular. Eddie trunk is a huge fan.

Tuk Smith: 3:39

I should say I'm not where I want to be. I'll rephrase it personally.

Chuck Shute: 3:44

So but you do so you do want to be popular, though, like you do want to have.

Tuk Smith: 3:49

I want to be on my own terms. I don't know the definition of popular I don't know if the style of music I'm playing has a bitter big enough audience, and today's cultural climate, to even be big, because what I like and what the consumer wants are, I feel like I'm fucking lost. I'll look at something and I think it's like a parody or an SNL skit or a satire. And I'll read the comments and it's like legions of people going you're fucking amazing. And I'm like, Something is definitely wrong with me. So

Chuck Shute: 4:26

well, yeah, I mean, I guess depends on what kind of music But isn't there a market for music such as this? I mean, there is some newer bands that are playing melodic rock. I mean, they're not the same as you but I would say like, you know, band like the struts is doing pretty well. Right. And I mean, that's, that's playing kind of similar music, right? I

Tuk Smith: 4:44

mean, I don't know when the last time when last time you listened to struts, I keep up with them. It's very in the vein of like, Harry Styles now. Which is which is cool. No hate, but like me doing something very guitar driven and kind of powerpop up like there are some bands out there, but I don't think any that are being pushed to the forefront. And I'm a big fan of the struts. But, you know, I've tried to tour with them many, many times. I don't know if it's politics or what, but I've never been able to get the tours,

Chuck Shute: 5:14

really, because that would be a amazing package. I would love and love to Yeah, yeah, I'd have to listen to their newest I must have missed, because I just remember the one album I had a few years ago. And I just loved that there was a couple songs that I really liked. But I haven't I haven't heard the Harry Styles stuff. Yeah, I'm

Tuk Smith: 5:30

just I don't know, I would just it's like that 1975 kind of Harry style stuff. Yeah, just cool. I'm all about artists changing and everything. But they definitely have some great songs. And I would love to tour with them for

Chuck Shute: 5:42

sure. Yeah, that's cool. What other bands are you into currently that you think would be a good package.

Tuk Smith: 5:50

I'm into a lot of the bands that I work with and produce because that's what I do to sustain myself. So there's like a whole underground of like rock and roll Power Poppy garage bands that I love. And it's just such a small scene, it's probably encapsulated to like, you know, a cap of 100 to 200 people per each city, combined. So there's a lot of bands I work with, and I'm a fan of like, you know, I love shit, like the darkness. I love the new Green Day record. I'm a fan of the new marvelous three record. I love that. And then when it comes to like newer bands, there's a lot of underground bands like Kate Clover just put out a cool, single great record. There's a band called wildlife I work with. That's awesome. I like a lot of the punk stuff too, like spiritual cramp, and things like that. A more of kind of the angular punk stuff.

Chuck Shute: 6:40

That's awesome. It's a lot of homework. I'm gonna I want to listen to all that stuff. That sounds I mean, somebody already know. But yeah, that's great list.

Tuk Smith: 6:47

Well, I think that, you know, I'm, I'm about to release this Spotify playlist I did. And it's called modern power, pop and rock and roll. And basically, it's because it's not really acknowledged in the industry, anywhere. There's no home base for it. Like, there's active rock, metal, pop, punk, you know, anything blues, rock, there's playlists and outlets for the kind of stuff. Sorry, the kind of stuff that I'm doing, there's really no home base for it. So I'm a huge supporter of other bands, and I try to work with them and anything like that, that can kind of build a community.

Chuck Shute: 7:28

So that I was gonna say, that's what my question to was, I was gonna ask, how do you sustain because that's what I would think that you'd have to do the occasional cover or whatever, just to pay the bills. But you're saying that you can still create as you want to create? And then you do the producing to pay the bills.

Tuk Smith: 7:44

Producing and songwriting?

Chuck Shute: 7:45

Yeah. Oh, do you write songs for other artists?

Tuk Smith: 7:49

I write with other artists. I never wrote some compositions for TV shows and got some placements and things like that. And in front of me is my little recording desk with my preamps and all my compressors and shit. So I'm recording 75% of my record. In this room right here. There's shit tons of amps and guitars over here, you can't see but what I'm doing with my record, and I'm very blessed, because I've been like, mentoring under studios and learning from great songwriters and producers the last decade is I'm going to like cut drums in the studio. And then I record everything else here. Yeah, you literally sit right here and sing. Okay.

Chuck Shute: 8:28

Do you and you self produced than your own stuff? Or do you have?

Tuk Smith: 8:32

Yeah, I'm writing, recording and producing it. Yeah. Okay.

Chuck Shute: 8:35

Wow. Does it help to do like having a producer and other producer to help you kind of shape it? Or you'd rather just do it yourself?

Tuk Smith: 8:42

No, I love producers, man. I've always been. I've always been infatuated with the every asset of like rock and roll from the history, the fashion, the gear, the songwriting aspect of it, and the production of it. And I've been blessed to work with some of my favorite producers. I got to write a song with Butch Walker. He's huge. Rob Cavallo produced a record that is shelved. And he's fucking amazing producer and I've worked with Marty Frederickson and just some other people that are just killer. And so I kind of just use that to like, suck it all up and learn it. And so I'm interested in producing and writing as much as I am being an artist. That's

Chuck Shute: 9:23

cool. You mentioned marvelous three earlier Have you ever had a chance to work with a butch Walker?

Tuk Smith: 9:27

Yeah, I wrote a song with him it was it's released it's called same ol you okay? Is that ways I want to that's your Spotify got released? Yeah, like, like during the pandemic maybe like 2021 2022 Okay,

Chuck Shute: 9:40

yeah, cuz I listen to all your stuff, but I can't remember the song titles and then wasn't there. One album that didn't get released like it's shelved or something because the label hasn't they haven't released it yet. Or maybe they know Yeah,

Tuk Smith: 9:51

that that's the album that Rob cavalo produced, which I don't know if your listeners are filling in Rob Cavallo is like Mega he I guess like discovered Green Day. He did Dookie American ADEA. He did my chem Black Parade. He did like, tons of shit Goo Goo Dolls. He's like one of those big. You know, one of those guys and it was killer making a record with him. And it was truly a dream. It was like one of those old school records in the studio where you have like, a fucking coffee machine and runners and session musicians. Oh, I mean, just a massive production. So to come from that to like doing most everything in the one room? Yeah. It'll humble your ass really quick.

Chuck Shute: 10:33

Yeah, there's some good things and bad things, right? Because then again, when it's just you, it's like you're running the show. I mean, there's more work to do. But also you get to call the shots. So you get to say, Well, I think the guitar should be louder on this or drums or lower, whatever.

Tuk Smith: 10:50

Totally, man, look, I'm blessed to be in a place where I feel confident enough to make my own record. But I don't think it was up until the last maybe like two years where I was like, I really confidently think I can do this. And so the first song that I literally did everything was my first single a couple months ago called take the long way. And I was nervous as fuck, you know? Because you got nobody to bounce ideas off or whatever. But yeah, everything turned out great. Until Yeah, that

Chuck Shute: 11:17

sounds amazing. I think that's the number one song on your Spotify, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's really catchy. Anybody who hasn't heard you or doesn't should check that song out. And there'll be, there'll be hooked. Like, that's how I listened to that song. And I was like, Okay, I'm in and then I listen to the rest. And I even went back and listen to some of your, the other band that you're in. What was it cutting out for? whiners? biters? Yeah. And you said, you're not going to do biter songs. When you play live, though.

Tuk Smith: 11:46

I did, like birthday parties and shit where they've paid me and I've went up and learned a couple biters, tunes or whatever. But I'm like, one of the reasons why that band, I kept it together so long, it was very dysfunctional, and like the best rock and roll way. Because you want those fucked up personalities. You want to be in a band. Sometimes I think the coolest bands are the ones where everybody should be in therapy, but they never went and bite it and biters was was definitely that very, very troubled people. But it kind of like, there's a family brotherhood. So you know, instead of like breaking, like, pushing members out, or me doing weird shit, we just all decided it was probably better to break up. So I feel like that's like has is kind of sacred, and I'll leave it alone. Okay, but we had a cult following. It was cool. I mean, we started in the punk clubs, sleeping on fucking floors, and living like fucking animals. And you know, the last tour, we were like, in a tour bus. So it was cool to see that happen. You know?

Chuck Shute: 12:48

Would you ever join another band and have? Do you think you could ever recreate the magic with someone else?

Tuk Smith: 12:55

What do you mean, in the biters? No, you know,

Chuck Shute: 12:57

just some, like total, a totally new band. But it's not your solo project where you're running all the shots. It's where you're collaborating with somebody else?

Tuk Smith: 13:05

Well, I will say this, most bands have one person calling all the shots anyways, just, there's a facade, okay. And it's not an ego thing. There's just usually one guy, but if there was another collaborator, songwriter person that had a vision, of course, I love collaborating. Yeah. Yeah. Like if somebody was like, come if Luke Strauss was like, come play guitar for me. And let's do I would be like, Yeah, of course.

Chuck Shute: 13:28

And that would be one where obviously, like, he's calling the shots.

Tuk Smith: 13:32

I don't know, man. I'm pretty fucking alpha, I'd probably be like, No, we're gonna do it this way. Yeah, I don't I don't I don't know. You know, I don't know. It just depends. It's like being in a relationship being in a band. You know?

Chuck Shute: 13:45

Yeah, that's what I've heard. I mean, it's amazing. When you hear the stories and you kind of like, peel the curtain back and see how the sausage is made. It's amazing. Some of these bands have been able to last as long as they have like, I guess that's why they have like separate tour buses and things. Like if the band gets big enough, like they somehow they make it work. They

Tuk Smith: 14:03

stay together because there's money. Yeah. And a lot of bands when they're smaller, don't they're like, Fuck this. There's no incentive. Yeah, yeah.

Chuck Shute: 14:11

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Why would you put up with that shit if you're not making any money?

Tuk Smith: 14:15

Yeah, totally. You don't do it because of money. But like, if you can't fucking pay your bills, and you're and you're fighting, like, Fuck this.

Chuck Shute: 14:22

Yeah. What were some of the biters. I mean, you guys had the shortfall. And so that was enough. And there's probably some good times in, in addition to the dysfunction to

Tuk Smith: 14:31

Yeah, yeah, I mean, like, it was great and amazing, but there was Look, dude, we were drinking and partying and like, you know, we it was fucked up. It was cool. And I think that's what people are attracted and it was kind of dangerous. But not trying to be it was just like, you know, the drummer might throw up. I might, I might lose my fucking temper. Yell. It's I don't know, you know, we don't know. I think it was for the best. In retrospect, I handle things and carry myself different but that's how you grow you make mistakes? Sure.

Chuck Shute: 15:02

And as you get older you kind of you kind of have to tone some of that down a little bit, right? Like I know for me like I don't drink as much as I used to. I mean, I rarely drink now because it's just like it hurts me. It's an old man.

Tuk Smith: 15:15

I look dude, I hit it really really hard with the partying because my my heroes were like, Bon Scott, Johnny thunders, Keith Richards, Steve baiters, those motherfuckers died, Keith Richardson, but you know what I mean, it's ever gonna die. So I was like really interested in that kind of stuff. So I say this, I say, I'm a late bloomer should hit the pollen a little sooner. And what I mean by that is I like I'm trying to make up for lost time. So I really don't have time to be getting fucked up all the time. I've already done it. I wasted a lot of time doing that. But once again, that's just a personal thing right now and I get more satisfaction out of recording and producing other bands and making my records and things like that. It's more fulfilling.

Chuck Shute: 16:05

Okay, but so for songwriting and inspiration, because that's always the debate, right? It's like people say, like, I remember when I was a kid, when I my brief music career when I was taking guitar lessons and like, I remember getting my guitar teacher saying how like Aerosmith. The earlier albums were better because they were all fucked up. And like, they just wrote these great songs. And I'm like, I mean, the, the, the songs and they were clean are pretty good, too, but they're poppier, more polished, what is your

Tuk Smith: 16:28

nose? They didn't write those things they didn't write. They didn't write crazy and crying. They were bringing in big songwriters.

Chuck Shute: 16:35

Yeah, they co wrote I mean, I had Desmond Child on he talked about how they wrote the song, dude looks like a lady. That's, that's kind of interesting. Yeah,

Tuk Smith: 16:43

and look, what I'm saying is that that usually happens when a band gets sober. They bring in these prolific amazing writers like Desmond, I'm a huge Aerosmith fan. But when they were the Toxic Twins, yeah, it was dangerous and super fucked up. It was more about the vibe as much as the song right. And then same thing with Guns and Roses when you walk down the roses and 87 from the ribs like axles like a fuck and like an animal with rabies. He was like jumping into crowd beating the fuck out of his own fans. So yeah, there's a danger like that that doesn't exist in rock anymore should it exist I don't know. But I was attracted to that kind of shit the darkness of it yeah

Chuck Shute: 17:26

I will you bring up Guns and Roses I was a huge Guns and Roses fan I think for me it's like a piece of that I think the thing that meat to me that was so appealing about them was like how they just like and even in their lyrics they it was kind of like this fuck you like we don't give a shit fuck you know? Fuck off all this kind of like it like as a shy like little kid. I was like, Oh, these guys are cool. Like they don't take shit from people and they'll tell you to fuck off. I'm like, I liked that. That's cool.

Tuk Smith: 17:53

Oh, yeah, I mean same thing as me because where I grew up it was a very very normal Very Vanilla blue collar kind of town so any kind of shocking rebellious shit like that. That's why I got to punk rock and you know, Guns and Roses were kind of a gateway into punk for me like with the spaghetti incident stuff because I was always into like, older records and stuff and they were covering dead boys and shit like Rose Tattoo. So they definitely carry that spirit for sure.

Chuck Shute: 18:22

Yeah. And what about Motley Crue? Cuz I know I mean, there's a whole fiasco with you were on the stadium tour. But you were you said in interviews that you were a fan of them as well and Nicky six.

Tuk Smith: 18:34

I think that I was at think me and Nicky six probably have the same influences. Like Cheap Trick. T Rex, the sweet, so we probably and like I'm sure a lot of his favorite bands are mine too. So I could see because at first Motley Crue record had a lot of cheap trick in it a lot of more like powerpop kind of songs.

Chuck Shute: 18:56

I love that first record, that's my favorite one of theirs.

Tuk Smith: 19:00

Yeah, it's killer. Yeah, it's killer, for sure. I mean, look, dude, I was excited to go on that tour. Yeah, you didn't

Chuck Shute: 19:06

get to do any of the shows, right? No, oh, god. It's so stupid.

Tuk Smith: 19:11

It's called COVID. Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 19:12

yeah, it was that. So was that. Just like, did they cancel you off the tour then? Or did you just say, Well, fuck it or what happened? I forget the story. What happened there because that would have been they did do the tour then it was classless act or whatever.

Tuk Smith: 19:26

Yeah, I signed it in the NDA. I think that's what it's called. Okay. So I can talk a little bit but look, COVID Put it back two years in a row. And it was looking like that third year bands were starting to tour. And, look, the label kind of has like this protocol that I was on. They don't release your record at all, unless you're doing a shed or stadium size tour. So some of those artists on the roster had been in purgatory for five or six years. yours. Now with my personality. You could think how I felt about that, like, fuck this shit on that, dude, I got the Motley tour. I'm like, oh fuck, like how lucky seriously? Yeah, how fucking lucky you get that I'm like, Cool and then I sit on my ass for two years. And like me, which is probably not the best way to do it. I'm like, I'm not fall, go out and play the fucking clubs. I'm not scared to go play the fucking dive bars, I gotta get out and fucking play. I can't sit on my ass. I'm not waiting. And they're like, I don't know if the tour is gonna happen. Enlisted relationships were strained, not just me, it disintegrated. They gave me an option to leave the label. And I did and the next thing I knew I was just slid right in there. So you know, it

Chuck Shute: 20:41

must be nice to be initially though, to be targeted for that tour and have that record deal. How did those people can you talk about that how you were for that?

Tuk Smith: 20:54

I mean, the guy that owned better noise Alan Kovac he manages he managed a motley crew. So you know that it's just leveraging relationships this whole industry is.

Chuck Shute: 21:05

So did he discover you then or did somebody in his keynote?

Tuk Smith: 21:08

No, when I when I had I basically had to go through basically a lawsuit with biters. Record Label earache. I know it probably makes me sound like I'm crazy to work with, but it's really not super common. It's it's like common. Yeah, all the time. Like some shit happens. And so and so I still talk to a lot of people on staff at Eric, but I basically had to go solo. I signed everything over. And I like biters was kind of done anyways. And I was like, okay, so I told my manager, I said, I've got all these demos, shop them and see if you can get me a deal. I want to make a record. And my manager was playing golf in California. And in the Can you hear me, okay, yep. My manager was playing golf and in the fucking locker room or whatever, like coming out of the shower. Rob Kavala was there. And my manager was like, Rob cavalo. And he's like, yeah, he goes, You producing any rock bands lately? You know, like rock artists in cavalo, apparently was like, No, but I'm looking for for one, you know, any of my managers like, yeah, I got the perfect guy for you, right? So I started sending stuff to go follow and I'm going to California meeting with him. He's fucking awesome. By the way. I mean, he's like a musical genius. cavalla There's a reason why successful, he hears my demos, we go through them, I make a couple trips, and I'm putting all this shit on my credit card, right? There's nobody paying for it. I'm just like, I can't turn this down. I'm gonna go in debt. Fuck it. So I meet with him. The first time I meet him, he goes, show me what you got, like just an acoustic with him and his house in his room. So you can imagine how intimidating that is. And I played him a song. He goes play it again. That was fine. Great. That's a terrible impression. Anyway, the point is like, I was just playing acoustic to him like in a room together. And we develop the relationship over a couple of months. And he goes, All right, I want to make a record review. It's going to be great, go find a deal. And I was like, Oh, this is going to be easy. Because we have cavalo base, basically saying he's gonna make a record with me. Did we go to like 30 labels? Oh, I love them. It doesn't fit our roster. This is great. It doesn't fit bah, bah, bah, bah, blah. They had a meeting with Interscope. And I think, I don't know if it was Interscope. I can't remember but one label heard my demos with cavalo in there trying to get a deal on Kabbalah is going to bat for me with these a&r guys. And they go, Oh, we really like his stuff. It's really cool. You know, we have this rock band on our roster and this one, and um, they've incorporated elements of trap beats into their music. When you do tucks record, do you think you're going to be able to incorporate those kinds of elements, it really helps with the streaming. So so with that cavalo comes back and we're like, oh, wow, this isn't going to be as easy as we thought. So, literally, out of nowhere, we send it to Alan. And he calls my manager immediately goes, I've been looking for an artists like him. I love his songs. I love his look, I love his influences. And Colette called me on the phone. I didn't know who the fuck this guy was. I had no idea. He was like this powerful. Big swing and Dick in the industry. I'm like, Yeah, you like my ship, whatever. You know, just so off my radar. And my manager is like, Yo, that's like fucking out. Alan COVID Duran Duran motley crew, like he's did all the stuff. So yeah, Alan was like, I want to put you on retainer right now to have you signed. So he wanted me to sign something to make sure that I wouldn't go anywhere else while he was doing it. And it was awesome man. And he made let me make the kind of record that I wanted to make. There was no a&r And they ran my songs through like this fucking algorithm machine or something, some kind of program and it was lighting up the the algorithmic landmines, all Over. You can imagine me somebody that like, just wants to write songs. I don't fucking know about algorithms, and they're like, Oh, we put the lyrics. We put the lyrics, the chord progressions and the BPM in there and the algorithms went fucking crazy. I'm like, I don't know, man.

Chuck Shute: 25:17

That is funny. Yeah.

Tuk Smith: 25:20

Anyway, so I got to make the record I want. So that's kinda like how Alan came in.

Chuck Shute: 25:24

But that's the one that is like the show, right? Yeah,

Tuk Smith: 25:28

three songs got released off of it. And COVID Yeah.

Chuck Shute: 25:33

And so you have one that you're working on currently, that's going to be a full album. That's that will be coming out. Yeah.

Tuk Smith: 25:39

And then yeah, so then I released a record like a year ago called Ballad of a misspent youth. And now I'm doing a fresh one. Yeah.

Chuck Shute: 25:47

Okay. And this is on the same label that the last one was on.

Tuk Smith: 25:52

The last one was on this label called Mr. G. And they were subsidiary of virgin and my manager and Marty Fredrickson producer speaking to Aerosmith. super talented worked with them. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that yeah, he's fucking killer, huge influence on me. So Marty, and my manager put together this little subsidiary through virgin, and I did my record through there. And it was cool. Virgin didn't want to pick up my option. Because I don't stream enough. I don't know, man. So I'm just doing this myself. It's so weird. The

Chuck Shute: 26:25

business stuff because, yeah, you're right. It's like I hear so I mean, maybe it's just me, maybe, or I don't know. But I hear stuff. And I go, Oh, that's not that. Very good. And it's got like millions of streams, and then I hear your stuff. And I'm like, this should have like, more street. Like, we need to get these songs out there to the world. We need to like play them on music and TV and commercials. And I mean, do you think it could just be something like that, where some one person likes a song and puts it into commercial and it goes viral or something?

Tuk Smith: 26:52

Man, I don't know, at this point. And if I think about it, I'll go crazy. I am the I Am the dude that like, once a week, sometimes somebody will DM me or say, dude, dude, this is a travesty. You should be huge. You're underrated. I'm like, Thanks, buddy. You know, I can't really control that. But look, record labels used to make investments and artists, too. You know, like John Mellencamp David Bowie, they put out several records for they broke, and there's countless other bands. Now, if you don't they throw 100 things at the wall. And if one sticks, it's fine. But if you're not already doing it yourself, they're not gonna develop you anymore. It's not about that.

Chuck Shute: 27:34

Yeah. But I guess the positive too, is that you don't necessarily have to have a record label backing you. I mean, all these people can blow up for I mean, your stuff is out there. We just got to get the word out. And I mean, it helps when you go on Eddie trunk, and he's praising you and saying, you know, the record is brilliant. All that. And, I mean, I wish I was bigger, and I could help you more, but I'll help you a little bit. Hopefully. So

Tuk Smith: 27:57

no, dude, look, man, I tried to do interviews, and I'm very, very grateful to every fan, even though it's it's it's quite quality, not quantity at this point. But I mean, going independent, like, look, there's no label that's going to sign me at this point, what I do is just not, it's not happening right now. And that's okay, man. It's like, artists careers go through peaks and valleys. And the most important thing for me is like being an artist, dude, I have some weird, like, mental thing where I have to, like slave, creating like songs and putting all this sweat equity in the making shit, and then just release it, and then start over again. It's the most fucked up shit in the world. So to me, it's important to just continue releasing music and things that I love. And being on a label kind of hampers that a little bit. Yeah. Do

Chuck Shute: 28:53

you get Do you ever get frustrated though, when you slave and you put all this effort into a song, and it doesn't get the response that you were hoping because I do that a lot with podcasts. Like there's some episodes where I'll read the person's book, like read several or the the guest book, and I'll put all the notes and do all this research. And then I'll put the episode out. Nobody cares.

Tuk Smith: 29:14

Yeah, dude, it's, it's, it sucks. The good thing about that is it starts to weed out like the lifers from the people who are just trying to do it. Right, right. And so after a while, you get your ass kicked, people walk away to me, it's just like, Rocky, I just keep getting my ass beat because it's not about winning. I just have to do it. And hopefully you end up winning. Yeah. And if you truly if you truly love something like you can't just you can't stop. Now

Chuck Shute: 29:45

that's true. Yeah. And that's what inspired me. Well, yeah, like I said, going back to the beginning of the thing about what you said about when you look back, you want to do something you're proud of, and I feel like that's what I'm trying to do with the podcast. And I think you're doing that with the music and I think that's just really inspirational because you're right you if you're trying to like do something to please other people, I feel like you just burn out faster. So totally

Tuk Smith: 30:06

what it's weird to a lot of that like, you know, social media and people going viral I'm watching a lot of people make things specifically to go viral, or make things because they think people are going to like it, or they want them to like that. And that's just wrong. That's not real art. That's just commerce. And that's okay, if you're in business, but real artists is not about money at first at all, or commerce. It's about like, you have this, you don't even know why you wake up in the morning and want to do it. And for better or worse, I'm one of those people and it sounds like you are super passionate about what you do. And you go, why the fuck am I even doing this? Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 30:48

exactly. I mean, it's like, I have this conversation with other podcasts or buddy of mine. It's like, we're in the same boat, or like, what are we? What are we doing? You know, it's like, and so that's what's so inspirational of you. You're like, I'm not gonna fucking do this. Like, I'm gonna do what I love. And I think that's really inspiring. So very thankful, buddy. Yeah, well, I said, I'd get you out here in 30 minutes. I'll let you get to the next one. But I appreciate you doing this. I'm

Tuk Smith: 31:09

gonna get this. Oh, that was a quick one, man. Yeah, it was super quick. All right, if you want to. I really enjoyed talking to you if you want to follow up or do another one.

Chuck Shute: 31:17

Yeah, absolutely. I would love to. Yeah, come back. When you when? Anytime you have something else to promote when the new record gets closer to releasing. You got a tour or anything like that? Yeah, absolutely. I'm

Tuk Smith: 31:27

releasing a new song March 7. Okay, awesome. So the plan is releasing singles every six weeks up until the record release.

Chuck Shute: 31:37

And remind me again, with the record before record as well, if

Tuk Smith: 31:41

I can stay on the timeline, because I'm doing it all myself. It shouldn't be August 22. But if I get sick or something I'm talking I'll probably be put back a week.

Chuck Shute: 31:50

All right. Well, yeah, come on back anytime. I'd love to have you. All right. Thanks, tuck. You're

Tuk Smith: 31:54

awesome, buddy. Thank you.

Chuck Shute: 31:56

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