Dr. Thomas Seyfried (biochemistry professor)

Dr. Thomas Seyfried is a professor of biology, genetics, and biochemistry at Boston College.  According to his research, we have misunderstood cancer as a genetic disease, rather than what is truly is, a metabolic disease.  He has had very good results with treating cancer in both animals and humans using a ketogenic diet and low dose drugs.  We discuss his groundbreaking research, how it works and how to get the word out about this. 

0:00:00 - Intro
0:00:13 - Fundraising for Cancer & More Cancer
0:04:30 - Otto Warberg & Science of Cancer
0:13:53 - Research & Case Studies with Metabolic Therapy
0:20:30 - Using Low Dose Drugs Such as D.O.N.
0:24:15 - Current Nutritional Advice For Cancer Patients
0:26:05 - Autoimmune Disorders & Keto Diet
0:27:43 - Ozempic, Ketogenic Diets &  G.K.I.
0:37:43 - Stress & Cortisol
0:39:55 - Types of Fast & G.K.I.
0:42:13 - Hyperbaric Oxygen Chamber
0:43:55 - Evolutionary Biology & Proof
0:46:50 - Corruption in the  Medical System
0:50:18 - Problems Trying To Use of Cannabis To Treat Cancer
0:53:20 - Difficulty Getting the Word Out of Research
0:56:10 - Cancer Rates Getting Worse
0:57:50 - Taking Pills & Drugs
1:00:40 - Nutritional Ketosis & Biome
1:04:05 - Ketogenic Diet To Treat Cancer in Animals
1:05:55 - Grass Fed Vs. Corn Fed Beef
1:07:30 - Preventing Cancer, Moderation & Awareness
1:14:25 - Water Fasting
1:17:50 - Getting the Word Out
1:20:36 - Outro

Dr. Thomas Seyfried website:
https://tomseyfried.com/

Chuck Shute linktree:
https://linktr.ee/chuck_shute

Transcript

Unknown: 0:00

is

Chuck Shute: 0:13

such an important topic of all, I mean, I've done over 400 interviews, but I can't think of a more pressing issue that people should hear about. I mean, because it just seems like now cancer is everywhere. Both my parents had it. I have cousins and aunts and uncles. I mean, even my cat got cancer, which I'm like, What is this epidemic with cancer?

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 0:31

Yeah, it's only getting worse. It's not getting better.

Chuck Shute: 0:35

Right. And you bring up an interesting point where you say, you know, we keep giving money to all these, you know, these fundraisers for raising money for cancer research. And it's still getting worse that it seems like if we're giving more money should be in the research is getting funding? Shouldn't the rates be dropping?

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 0:53

Yeah, absolutely. So but nobody's asking why.

Chuck Shute: 0:57

Right. So you bring up an interesting point that we're looking at the disease wrong. It's not a genetic disease, which is what they've said previously, it's actually a metabolic disease.

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 1:08

Yeah. Well, I you on live now is. Yeah, so you're absolutely right. You? That's a very excellent question. And you should be asking your viewers why they never asked the question. You know, so many people are donating money. To all of these foundations, the Susan Coleman, you know, run for lung run for breast, you know, run run for bladder brain, you go down the list of all the different societies of cancer, everybody feels it's doing something good. And bottom line is, the more money they raise, the more cancer we get. And no one seems to ask what the hell you're doing with the money that we have been giving your society for the last 20 years. And all we have is more cancer to show for it. There's no accountability. You know, it stops at the fundraiser. In other words, the all of the all of the emphasis is on getting people how many people can start running, for wherever they're going, and are being sponsored to collect money for the organization. And then the organization takes the money. And what we get is more cancer. And so what are you doing the questions I always ask is, what are you doing with all the money we're raising? And you can even ask the federal government, National Cancer Institute, same question. We're putting $5 billion a year of American taxpayer money into your organization. And all we get for it is more cancer. And then there does not seem to be any accountability, whether it's a government run organization, or whether it's a private run organization, their argument or what they sometimes and you can test it my test my hypothesis, you can they they'll say, oh, it's an extremely complicated disease, and we're doing all we can to try to stop it. It's not that complicated, and you're not doing all you can to stop it. That's and then you stand you start getting them upset, angry, and then they kind of discount you. So people have to start asking really hard questions about this. But but you know, the obesity is now replacing smoking as the number one risk factor for cancer. And we have an obesity epidemic. Well, don't people can't they put two and two together? Don't they realize that being fat puts you at risk for getting cancer? They don't know that. We can you believe it? We actually ask people do you know being overweight and obese? But if you had no I didn't know that? Well, damn it, man. You somebody better get the word out to these folks.

Chuck Shute: 3:49

And also so many other conditions, as you talk about this is can be related to the type two diabetes. Oh, yeah. And it's basically boils down to a high blood sugar. Yeah,

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 4:00

what do we do? How do we get that we eat poorly, highly processed foods. We don't exercise. I mean, it's not that complicated.

Chuck Shute: 4:06

Well, it's it's ironic, too, because you talk about like Susan B. komen, or whatever. And how they'll, you know, they'll advertise these things like you I think goes KFC. How to think like, Oh, we're trying to help raise, you know, solve cure cancer. I'm like, I think you're causing cancer with your food. And yeah,

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 4:21

but nobody's what you just said, nobody's telling them that. Somebody's got it. Let them know that apparently they don't know. Yeah.

Chuck Shute: 4:28

So let's, let's do your research. It's based on auto Werber, which I did a little research on him. What a fascinating guy. This was a guy who was half Jewish. Yeah, you know, stood up to the Nazis. I mean, this is this guy had some big balls, and he kind of identified that cancer. He only had half of it because he said it wasn't a genetic disease. It was it was metabolic but you only had half of the problem that glucose and you said there's the other half is the gluten.

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 4:57

That's what we did. That's our that's our big thing. It's not People say, Oh, everybody knows glutamine. Yeah, but everybody misinterpreted how glutamine was driving the cancer. We have shown that it's a fermentation metabolism, not an oxidative metabolism. And that's a big that's a big difference for those that are in the field of energy metabolism, and cancer. There's two ways to get energy in our body. One is an ancient substrate level phosphorylation when I say phosphorylation, meaning you add a phosphate group to ADP to produce ATP, adenosine triphosphate, which is the chemical energy equivalent of the transfer of the phosphate to proteins and lipids and things like this changes that configuration, it is energy. Where do we get our energy from? How do we make ATP we eat food, okay. The energy of the sun creates carbon hydrogen bonds are originally in the food that we eat ultimate, all energy comes from the sun. And then when we eat the food, we break those carbon hydrogen bonds and released again the energy of the sun and capture it in ATP. Without ATP, no cell can grow or survive. So the question is, how does the cell make ATP and there's two predominant mechanisms of making ATP. One is an ancient pathway called Subject substrate level phosphorylation doesn't require oxygen. And this is the kind of energy that all cells had in our in the evolution of life on earth. All life on Earth started from single cells that were using this substrate level phosphorylation, because there was no oxygen in the atmosphere. At that particular time. Only after cyanobacteria started to produce oxygen, did we start to get more complicated structures, multicellular organisms, and eventually US and other mammals and fish and what we see. But every one of us every we're all getting energy from ATP. Well, over this time, these ancient pathways have become minimal. They play an extremely important role in our energy metabolism, as you and I are sitting here breathing, and we're getting energy from oxygen, but but the preparation of the fuel source is using these substrate level phosphorylation as a very minor process. But when the oxygen a bill when the ability of the cell to get energy from oxygen becomes corrupted in any number of ways, the cells gradually fall back on these ancient pathways. And this is what the cancer is using. It's called substrate level phosphorylation. Warburg described it in the cytoplasm, he received the Nobel Prize for actually defining the protein that actually gets the energy from oxygen in the mitochondrion. But he said these cancer cells aren't using oxygen, they're using this ancient fermentation pathway. And he tried to quantify how much ATP was coming from fermentation versus oxidative respiration. That was where he made one mistake. We now know it's not possible to accurately quantify where the energy is coming from. Our big thing is that we also get energy out of that same organelle. But using an ancient fermentation pathway embodied in that organelle the mitochondria so the mitochondria in the cytoplasm produces most of the energy. And that's where we get we're breathing because the mitochondria takes in the oxygen and use it as an acceptor so we can get energy through oxidative phosphorylation highly, highly efficient, highly, highly efficient, substrate level phosphorylation is inefficient. If you have to use a lot of substrate a lot of material to get a small amount of energy. But the cancer cell has fallen back on these ancient pathways. Because the organelle that generates the high efficiency energy is no longer efficient, it's inefficient. So the cell uses ancient pathways to grow and reproduce, and the organelle that controls the differentiated stable state of the cells in our tissues. That organelle is the mitochondria and it's the controller of the differentiated quiescent state. And when that organelle becomes corrupted, inefficient, it falls back on the fermentation and loses the control of the growth of the cells thereby leading to dysregulated cell growth. dysregulated cell growth is the definition of cancer. Cancer is cell division out of control dysregulated cell growth, how did it happen from a chronic damage, chronic interruption of oxidative phosphorylation with a compensatory fermentation, leading to dysregulated cell growth? Very, very clear, very point to really just following the pathway of Warburg and looked deeply into what he was saying, and we've confirmed almost everything that Warburg was saying, except we have shown that he was an error in trying to quantify the glucose pathway. And the amount of energy coming out of the mitochondria from oxidative phosphorylation, he did not know about amino acid fermentation, another fuel that can also generate energy through substrate level phosphorylation, but it occurs in that organelle the mitochondria. Now we know for sure how the cells are getting their energy, and we know how to kill them. Because once you know what they're reading, you know how to kill them. So, and people are chasing genes, they're looking at all these mutations in the nucleus, trying to do precision medicine talk, all those genetic mutations are downstream effects of the abnormal energy metabolism. Okay. So that's why we're not making any major advances. We keep chasing things that are downstream and not central to the issue of what's causing the dysregulated cell growth. So constantly, we're throwing good money after bad on all these fundraisers and all this stuff. And if you look at the, at the scientific advisory boards, not only for the National Institutes of Health, but also for these various cancer, Susan Coleman and all these others, they all have guys that think cancer is a genetic disease sitting on their scientific advisory board. Therefore, you know, you're throwing money, good money after bad because those guys don't understand the biology of the disorder, the treating. Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 11:25

and I think it's at least one person. Have you ever debated any of these? I

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 11:29

don't want to debate me. I've asked for it. Obviously, sketchy that they won't talk to you about that. Bring them on? Why don't you bring somebody on here? We'll have an alternate. Okay, bring somebody on tap get somebody from the gene kit from the NCI national cancer is get the get the new director of the National Cancer is this and I'll be happy to discuss this with her.

Unknown: 11:50

This will be great. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, they

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 11:53

say I take an extreme view. Yeah, my extreme view is trying to manage the disease. That's what's extreme. Right.

Chuck Shute: 11:59

Well, and because I mean, that's one of the big thing that's changed over, you know, the last few decades with the cancer raising is also our diet and lifestyle. I mean, the food pyramid, this thing is like a joke to me. I mean, now, I think they finally gone off this, but for a while they were telling people to eat 12 to 14 servings of bread and carbohydrates a day.

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 12:20

Yeah, I know it was upside down. Well, you know, we can we can look at all that. And you know, a lot of this of smoke and mirrors and taken people's attention away from the critical issue. All right, what can I eat? Can I eat this? Can I eat that, you know, cancer can't survive without glucose and glutamine, because they need a fermentation, energy metabolism. And those are the only two fuels that can provide enough energy for fermentation. We interrogated all other fuels, and nothing more, nothing can keep these damn cells alive, except glucose and glutamine. And they can't use fatty acids or ketone bodies. Clearly, the management of cancer depends on lowering your blood sugar, elevating your ketone bodies, because now you start to starve the hell out of these tumor cells. And then you come in with a specific low doses of drugs that hit that glutamine, mitochondrial substrate level phosphorylation. And people will survive much, much longer in a higher state of life, overall survival, quality of life will significantly improve. Why is nobody doing this? Because they have no clue about what I just said. And I publish these papers. I don't know what I have to do. I mean, sit on a telephone pole or something like this. I mean, for Christ's sake. I mean,

Chuck Shute: 13:33

I'm trying I wish I had a bigger audience.

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 13:35

Well, I mean, it's just like, everybody's scratching their head. Oh, yeah. This guy should be a Risha, well, then go and talk to the guys at the NCI and find out what you get slapped down, go into the Dana Farber Cancer Center going to MD Anderson, and you're going to get slapped down? Or maybe you just don't want any part of this. Talk

Chuck Shute: 13:51

about the research you've done, because you've been published over 150 times. And you've done experiments that have proven these ideas with mice. Right?

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 14:01

Yeah. And humans. I mean, humans seem to do do

Chuck Shute: 14:04

the control group with humans, because that'd be unethical. You will, they don't

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 14:07

want when you recruit people, they don't want to be in the control group. They all want it out in the public group. But then you can't do the clinical trial. And you say, well, we can't do we can test it. Then.

Chuck Shute: 14:18

You have case studies as well. These people are beaten, or they've, I guess you call it you don't call it cured or beaten. You say they've managed to the cancer, the doctors will say of eight to 10 months to live and then it's been eight years and they're still alive.

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 14:32

Yeah, well, that's the thing I I don't know if they're cured or not. All I know is they're living a hell of a lot longer than they were predicted to live. I mean, it's so common, it's comical and tragic at the same time, you know, it's almost, it's so depressing and so frustrating. And yet at the other time, it's so nonsensical. The guy that we wrote up for the brain tumor, glioblastoma, Pablo Kelly, who is now entering his town. A year of survival with a tumor that they told him in 2014 that it was terminal if he didn't take radiation and chemo, he would be dead in nine months, nine to 12 months. And they said he had an inoperable inoperable brain tumor. And he would have to take radiation and chemo because the tumor was inoperable. So he said, I don't want any of that. I just want to do metabolic therapy male now I didn't know that that at that time I I said, Why don't you because I definitely don't want radiation and chemo. So I said to him, Well, let's do this metabolic. You know, I'm not a doctor, I can't tell anybody what to do or what not to do I just give them information. Well, after after three years, the damn tumor now becomes operable. Okay, from inoperable state to inoperable state. So he had the tumor debulk. And at first he thought, Whoa, he was on this very restricted ketogenic diet, low carb, low carbohydrate, high fat diet, which lowered his blood sugar and elevated his ketones. And he was doing good, felt good. Then he had the tumor taken out. And they said, We think we got it all. So he started to slide back into more of a carbohydrate kind of diet. Lo and behold, images of his brain show the tumor cells are still there, and they're starting to grow again. So put the fear of God back into him. And he goes back into the metabolic therapy, and you can see the tumor starts to slow down again. But then, over the years, it starts to creep up again. And he had hit the bolt a second time. Okay. After after six years, he had to do both things. And then he thought he was out of the woods and started to eat some things that he shouldn't have. And lo and behold, the damn thing starts to grow again, as a third bulking. So he's had an inoperable tumor operated on three times. Wow. But you know, is the guy cured? No. Is he still alive? Yes, he's had he's gotten married two kids. I mean, if he did the standard of care, he would have been dead years and years ago. So does Maillet metabolic therapy cure can't Well, it didn't cure his cancer. But he certainly has 10 years of life that he would have never had about this. And who knows how long he will live? I don't know. Yeah. So people will then say, Oh, see your metabolic therapy can't cure. Well, damn, Man, that guy live like five times longer than he should have? What the hell? Yeah.

Chuck Shute: 17:24

Well, and then people will say, Well, that's a case study. Well, there's other case studies, but also talk about the research that Turkey did, because they use the metabolic gap with low dose chemotherapy. And they had really good results. Yes,

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 17:36

right. Well, they read my book. And then they started to modify their practice in the clinic in Istanbul. And they were seeing similar kinds of responses. I mean, I saw pictures, and we published the breast cancer woman from Ohio, who was given one one month left to live. And that spread it was breast with to her brain, went to her bones, liver, spread all over the place. And metastatic cancer, she got on the plane, went to Istanbul, and was in the ICU intensive care unit for for several weeks, they thought she was going to die from her exposure to radiation and chemo and all this kind of stuff. And they gradually brought her back, and then started to reconfigure re strengthen her body, and then introduced very low doses of chemo while under metabolic therapy. And gradually the tumor started to shrink. And, you know, they, they, we published the paper, we couldn't see any more cancer. And then people say, Well, you gotta wait a while. Well, we've waited a while. And she started sending picture pictures back to us from Hawaii, where her and her husband are celebrating their two year survival. And I just saw Dr. Slocum last month. And I said, you know, how is it our breast cancer woman from Ohio doing? Oh, she's doing fine. You know, so there's a woman now who has lived several boys, I wish she could, who knows. But the fact is that she's alive, and she seems to be doing well. And she's getting on with her life. I have no idea whether she's going to be cured. But all I know is she's living a hell of a lot longer than she was predicted to live using standards of care and probably would have been dead a long time ago. So we have guy Tanenbaum Maggie Jones and Brad Jones are writing producing a big documentary called The Cancer revolution, which embodies all of the stuff that I've been talking about. And they're collecting one after another of the stage for terminal so called terminal cancer patients. And if you go to their website, you can see pictures with these people telling their stories. And Pablo Kelley is one of those guys on there. You can listen to him. You tell me whether he looks like he's ready to drop dead anytime soon. You know, all these guys are looking pretty healthy. They're very excited about their, their, what they're doing to stay alive. And they're very enthusiastic about it. And they're all considered terminal. You know, what do they mean? Terminal? I mean, we're all terminal to some extent. You know, I mean, if you die, you have a terminal cancer, you die from old age at 95. I mean, well, you're gonna die from the cancer, what the hell's going on with that? Right. So terminologies in a very loose way.

Chuck Shute: 20:19

So the Keto thing is part of it. And then you say there's another part of the treatment that would take this drug that is, I guess it's you say it's hard to get d o n, because it's there was you have some use and children, they it was too too high of doses. So it had bad side effects. So then they have they officially banned it in the US or

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 20:38

it's not banned. I mean, I get it from supply houses for research, but it's not for human use. Not for human use, give me a break, those the drugs you get from those supply houses have to be pristine. Otherwise, you screw up your research experiments if you're using crap stuff. So if I had cancer, I'd definitely be using this stuff that I get from the supply house. And that's for sure. It's pure, pure, it's healthy as good. But you see, it's not allowed. Yes, if you have a drug, that's really good, but it's too toxic. Then another way to deal with this is figure out how to reduce the toxicity by maintaining its therapeutic effect. And we've done that, we've shown that you can give small amounts of this drug while in therapeutic ketosis, and the toxicity of the drug goes way, way down. And the power of the drug goes way up. So it's like having a brand new drug, but because the system is already shit candidate, you can't, you can't use it now. So again, this is a block this drug would be. But the problem is, it's a repurposed drug, it's off patent, nobody can make any money on it. So what the drug companies are trying to do generic is I want to add it's yeah, it's an antibiotic thing it was isolated from from from a staph strep thing, years and years ago, and people you know, synthesize that, the thing of it is now, because you can't make any money on it. So you take the structure, and then you try to add something to that structure to maintain its therapeutic efficacy, now, it becomes a new structure that can be patented. And now the drug companies now become very, very interested in how we can patent glutamine targeting drugs. And now because they'll make money on that drug, they won't make any money on Dawn, 60, oxy, nor leucine, because it's, it's an off patent, kind of a kind of a drug. But you know, I'm in the business of trying to keep people alive. If we have a drug, and we know how to use it, what the hell is wrong with trying to keep somebody alive. But we can't do that, because we can't make any money on it. So you have then the drug companies should say our primary goal. And the goals of all of our research is number one, the revenue generation, and they're by the grace of God, if you survive, that's great. Well, I don't look at it, I look at it just the opposite way. I said, let's find something that works. That really works, then we can have entrepreneurs come in and try to figure out how to how to twist this into some profitable situation rather than do the reverse with,

Chuck Shute: 23:04

even if so even if people are still in. Because we again, I don't want to give people medical advice and tell them to go off their chemo drugs. I'm not a doctor. But if they were taking the chemo and stuff, you're saying if they did the fasting with the ketogenic diet, they could maybe potentially their doctors would would lower the chemo that they would need, they wouldn't need as much. Well, that's

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 23:23

what that's what we showed in the in the Istanbul group. They were using dosages of drugs that were at the very lowest you could possibly use while still falling within the when that regulations. But I asked them, I said what happens if you use even lower doses, they patients would do better. He said, so many can't go into that into that range, they'll lose their license to practice and all of a sudden went any way these guys lose your license. I mean, the issue here is you're trying to keep people alive, manage the disorder without toxicity, and it can clearly be done. There's no question about it. I mean, the stem group has proven that we have all these case, individual reports showing the same thing. You're right. We don't want to throw we don't have to throw out all the chemo. We don't have to throw out all the different kinds of radiation. We just have to know how to use those things in a more knowledgeable and effective way that what we're currently doing. What are

Chuck Shute: 24:16

they prescribing in terms of the diet? It's for cancer patients that are that are going through chemo and radiation what is the doctor tell them to eat? Hopefully some food

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 24:26

pyramid as much as you can. So you don't lose weight. In Famille any core high carbohydrate foods, something that you won't lose weight. Rarely. Yeah, I'm

Unknown: 24:36

going to ask them for crying out loud. The opposite of what you're saying. Up is absolutely the

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 24:41

opposite. So because they don't have any understanding of the biology of the disorder, that training is the scariest thing that you can possibly imagine. Okay, a test my hypothesis. What town are you living in? Where are you Arizona?

Chuck Shute: 24:54

I'm in Scottsdale, Arizona. Yeah,

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 24:56

yeah. Well, you can bet I have some friends at the bar. aro that are trying to work on metabolic therapy. But you can go down there and talk to guys that are in like breast cancer and things like this and see, you know, what do they, what do they recommend for their patients who are being irradiated and poisoned? What's their recommendation for breast cancer, colon cancer, liver cancer, those kinds of cancer, bladder cancer, you know, they'll all say, Well, you got to take this high dose here, we're gonna give you a surgical treatment, and we got to keep your weight up. You got to keep that weight up, man, you got to eat that you got to get those carbohydrates in there. And then they'll give you a steroid. I mean, this is nuts. I mean, this is absolutely nuts. People want to go and test and I I, why do I know that? Because I get dozens and dozens of emails from Port cancer patients who run to their oncologist saying, oh, I want metabolic therapy. Oh, no, you can't do that. There's no evidence that glucose drives cancer. Besides, you might lose weight, which would be really, really bad. I mean, what are you kidding me? Don't these guys understand what they're doing? So what are you talking about? Thanks. I think I'm gonna get a stroke doing this kind of stuff.

Chuck Shute: 26:05

The steroid thing. I don't know if you follow pop culture at all. But the comedian, Amy Schumer, you know, she said, she went on his talks. And everyone's saying, Well, what's wrong with her? And she had what's called moonface. And they sent me steroids are causing. She said it was from an autoimmune disorder, that that's why she got the steroids. isn't all this stuff kind of related? I feel like because I also heard on if you're familiar with Jordan Peterson and his daughter, they did a carnivore diet. And they both had, or I think the daughter had autoimmune disorder. And it just the thing vanished, the autoimmune disorder went away with when she did the carnivore diet.

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 26:37

Yeah, yeah, no, no, you're right. The moon face is your signature that for cancer patients, when you see cancer patients, especially brain tumor, soon as you see moonface, you know, that person might as well sign their death certificate. Because the moon face is so much steroids in your body, your skin gets paper thin, your face gets swollen like this. And some people feel oh, well, I'm looking good looking, I get wrinkles off my face, I'm getting this, you're this, you're this close to death. Because that your blood sugar is going through the roof from those steroids. And the tumor cells are suck, sucking down the glucose produced in the blood from the steroids. So you don't last long after you see moonface in general, especially for brain tumor. It's just, it's just tragic. We're killing all these damn brain tumor patients, like there's no tomorrow. And when you bring it up to these guys, I give big lectures and they stand there stone faced, they don't attack you, they just sit there looking at you. Like you're talking some foreign language to them. You know, it's unbelievable. I mean, it's scary. It's scary.

Chuck Shute: 27:41

Scary. So what are your thoughts on ozempic? Because are these kinds of drugs? Because, you know, that helps the weight loss is does that work? Does that coincide with your research? Or is this going to make things worse? Or how does it how would that affect cancer patients?

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 27:58

I have no clue. I never studied it. I don't know. I don't know we'd have to run a big trial ourselves and our the way we do our experiments, the reason I know all this stuff is because I tested all experiments. I run preclinical testing on cancer, brain cancer on these different metastatic cancers. I record all this I publish these papers, and then we adapt it for the clinic for patients. And when they start doing it, they do better than the than the mice do. I have never treated a mouse with cancer with ozempic and monitored the change of of blood sugar linked to anti inflammatory, pro, a photonic and all these signals, all these readouts that you have to get from treating a tumor with a particular drug. So I don't the answer to your question is I have no clue. I didn't do the experiments myself. Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 28:49

but that mean, because this would be an easier way to or a more natural way. I mean, for me, personally, I would rather take less drugs. So if I could do the ketogenic diet and fasting instead of taking another

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 29:01

keynote. Yeah, when I that's why we developed I published the paper on the glucose ketone index calculator, which tells you tells you what you what you can't or cannot eat. Because some people say I don't like ketogenic diets. I'm a vegetarian. Okay, I just eat a bunch of lettuce and see what it does to your GK I you know, and what do you, you bite, take a bite of a carrot, and all of a sudden your GK I jumps up and what don't eat the carrot. I mean, there's a lot of things that you that a person every individual can do to determine how they're going to manage their cancer if they want to manage their cancer. The issue with the glucose ketone index, it measures the amount in milli molar concentration in the blood of the sugar, glucose and the fat breakdown product called beta hydroxy butyrate, which is a ketone body. So when you stop eating, you obviously see Not eating food while you're, you know, people think they're going to be dead in like three days if they stop eating human being can go 70 or 80 and Angus Barbary from Scotland went 303 178 days without eating anything. He's the longest hold Record record holder on the planet. They weighed like 400 pounds. And he Oh yeah, I was

Chuck Shute: 30:22

gonna recommend that for the average person. But I mean, you know, I

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 30:25

can't tell you George my late friend George Cahill down here at the Joslin Diabetes Center in Boston. He used to do that to these morbidly obese people, he would fast them or all kinds of ways, and they would lose weight and they would get fit. And a lot of the comorbidities would go, but what happens is, you store fat in adipose tissue, that's that's the fat you see adipose tissue, you know, you have, you have guts, and you have acid you have adipose tissue is stored in our bodies. Because we start we arose as a storm species. And through our evolutionary past, we never had enough food. So we needed to store fat. Well, when you stop eating, the fat comes out of the fat adipose cells. It's broken down into singular fatty acids that are in the blood, and they go to the liver. And the liver takes the long chain carbon fatty acids and chops it up like a wood chipper, or wood chipper, and produces the small water soluble fat breakdown products called ketone bodies. So the ketone bodies can replace glucose for all cells in the body, except the erythrocytes, and hepatocytes, which are the but the liver burns fatty acids to get energy. And all of the cells, the brain, the heart muscles, they're all burning ketone bodies, or fatty acids together, tumor cells cannot use those fuels to survive, because they don't have a good respiratory organelle the mitochondria, so you can make the rest of the body healthy while degrading the tumor. So what we do in the in the glucose ketone index calculator we take, you can take the drop of blood, like diabetics would take a drop of blood, you put the the glucose stick, and then the ketone stick, you push a button, and boom tells you the GK is the ratio of sugar to ketones in your blood. Normally, you have very high glucose and extremely low, almost undetectable ketones, and then you stop eating, and all of a sudden the glucose goes down and the ketones go up. And all of a sudden you get a unity in the blood, where the ratio is one to one. And when you have the ratio and your blood of ketones to glucose, as 1.0 or below man, those tumor cells get hammered. They're they're under a serious metabolic stress. They're hanging on for the their dear lives in this and then you hit him, you come in from the side with a little shot of the glutamine targeting drugs and man, you blast them the hell out of these tumor cells. And the rest of your cells are super healthy, because they're burning the ketone bodies. So I mean, this strategy is just so nice. Now I don't I don't want to make people think, Whoa, I want to go out and do it. You okay? You want to see what it's like, stop eating for three days. And all of a sudden say, whew, I might want that radiation and chemo after this.

Chuck Shute: 33:07

Right? You don't want to start with a fast you say to do the keto diet for 10 to 14 days. And then I

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 33:14

would say let's call it a zero carbohydrate diet for 10 to 14 days. Okay, you know, eat steaks fish, somes vegetables, no bread, no pasta, no rice, potatoes, any of those carbs. Anything about dairy

Chuck Shute: 33:29

does dairy count as a car?

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 33:31

So sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. It's the individual. And that's what we did. With some of we ate yoga. I mean, you got to you got a nice low steady GK I, wow, look at this, you're really good. You're really good. And then you eat something like a yogurt or whatever. And boom, you see the spike? Ah, what do we know? Don't eat that. not that complicated. Okay, so each post you have

Chuck Shute: 33:58

this device, what does it call the Mojo meter that keto

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 34:01

Mojo from Amazon? Sure. You know, that's what's nice about it anywhere in the world, you can just go to Amazon and get the meter. And, you know, used to be used to be they have a ketone meter and a glucose meter independently of each other. But now they put the meter everything together in the same in the same meter. So, at first we were doing experimental, like, you'd have to go to a hospital, clinical chemistry lab to get this kind of work. But now the industry is starting to realize that this is a very, very important for not only cancer patients, but just people who want to get into healthy zones. You can Aki, you all of a sudden you get much healthier than you were when you had igk AI

Chuck Shute: 34:45

so GKR you said for cancer patients, you want to get a value of two point our below and for example, like if you drink a Coca Cola you it would be 100 Oh

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 34:54

100 You? Well, that might be we shot blood sugar up to 180 85 milligrams per deciliter. Now, when you want to kill cancer cells, you got to get it down to 55 to 65, and then raise the ketones. The reason why you're raising the ketones, because you can push blood sugars down to almost undetectable levels, because the ketones can replace glucose even for your brain. So you're letting the body take care of the problem, but you're pushing the body in the right way, where if I publish this cold your body will kind of oncolytic cannibalism, your body attacks the tumor and uses it for fuel for the for the rest of the body. But it will only do that when you push the blood sugars down to such a low level. Okay? So and because it's like having the cancer cell needs a lot of fermentation fuel, it needs a lot. Whereas the normal cells need very, very little. So as you push the blood sugars down, and make the normal cells now, more, they now need these, these fuels themselves, then they start up regulating and their sensitivity to these fuels. Putting direct pressure now on the tumor cells, which have to have maximum levels of these fuels to survive, the normal cells in the body will not attack the tumor cell, when you have enough energy for everybody, everybody is sufficient with their energy, the tumour cells are fat and happy the normal cells are getting their energy, all of a sudden, you start lowering these levels, where the body now starts to detect an energy reduction. And then as the energy reduction stays low, then there's a self surveillance within the body where every cell must account for its its efficiency, and its participation in the society of cells. And when you have certain cells like cancer cells that are not energy efficient, the body auto lytic cannibalism, the body attacks the tumor cell and will dissolve it only because the energy in the body has reached a certain critical level where every cell must account for its efficiency for the whole survival of the of the body. And when you acai down to that, that range, your body starts to look for, where am I getting my energy, where, where who's not who's not contributing successfully to the survival of these cancer cells, they're using a huge amount of energy to grow in a dysregulated way. And we're gonna go after them. They don't serve us the rest of the body. And the next thing you know that the damn body turns on the on the tumor cell and eats them uses the fuel from the tumor cell to feed the rest of the body. What a little cannibalism. Yeah, that's

Chuck Shute: 37:41

great stuff. Why don't we bought the emotional part of this because you said emotional stress can make the blood sugar go up because of cortisol, the stress hormone, right? Absolutely.

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 37:51

Absolutely. And our friend Trudy Dupont, unfortunately, she passed away from brainstem glioma, but she stayed alive so much longer. And at that time, I didn't know about the glutamine targeting so I, I wasn't able to help her on on that. But she was our first test person to do the glucose ketone index. And she had a beautiful low, beautiful, she had a handicap from the tumor. And somebody took her handicap parking spot over in nice France. And she got boiling, angry banging on the guy's door. And once you park in my, and then she did her blood sugar measurement, and she said, Oh, my God, my blood, my my blood sugar went up to 150. And I said, What's your ketones, Trudy? And she says, Oh, no, they're still at about three millimolar. So I said, well, so anger got your blood cortisol levels up, your body raised the sugar, but it didn't reduce the ketones, which was which was really good. So when you do the ratio, now, it didn't look so bad. It wasn't such a traumatic event. And of course, when the anger and you subside, everything goes back down. And in our press pulse therapeutic strategy for managing cancer, which we published open, open access, we have stress management is a critical component of the overall management of cancer. You need to reduce stress, people are freaked out as a matter of fact, the simple diagnosis of saying to someone that you have a terminal, you get all freaked out. You go into into a very depressed and all of a sudden, your blood corticosteroids are up your ketones up and you're making your tumor grow faster. So what you have to do is you have to reduce stress, gradually drive that those glucose down with diet exercise, exercise will lower glutamine and make the efficiency of ketone bodies greater. So there's so many things that can be done to destroy this cancer in a logical way based on biochemistry and biology. That seems to be unknown to the oncology community in large part.

Chuck Shute: 39:56

Yeah. Now what about you talked about water fast? Do you have any thoughts? Something like a juice fast or bone broth fast. Those

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 40:04

all depends on what it does to your GK i. Okay, bone broth doesn't raise your GK I don't worry then to bone broth. You know, it depends. I mean, you can keep a low GK I eating, eating, eating meat or, you know, one one P every other day. I mean, depend on what you're what you're eating. People say, Well, I'm going to starve to death. No, no, you're not, the body adjusts and starts to get super energy efficient from even small amounts of food that you eat. Your goal here is to kill cancer cells. And you want your body in a position where it starts to turn on the tumor to use the fuel from the tumor to feed itself. But if you're taking big meals in, there's no reason for the body to turn and attack the tumor. But if you so whatever comes into your mouth, when you have a low GK AI, is going to be used very, very efficiently by the normal cells of the body. And again, the tumor cells are going to be at a competitive disadvantage. And gradually they up and die on us. So and then, of course, if you kill the majority have to how do you know that you do it by PET scan MRI, you can see my lump went away my PET scan, you know, how do you feel I start to feel really good. You know, besides I lost a buttload of weight, you know, I had this I diabetes went away what has to happen to the diabetes, you know, all of these things start to go away, and your body is killing and eating the tumor cells. And then you can say, Oh, let me see what I can eat, and everybody has their own control. May what you might eat, and what I might eat might be two different things. We all have to measure it ourselves. Eventually, they're going to come out with the free libre, those kinds of devices that you can actually attach to your skin that will measure glucose and ketones without without you having to constantly prick your finger to get the blood to do this. So the technology is coming. And it will be here I guess in the next year or two, where people can then get the beeping on your cell phone. You can put a threshold on your cell phone when you go above that GK op op op op op op. They can't eat that. Wow. Okay, let me modify. Yeah, this is all coming down the pike is what about

Chuck Shute: 42:11

other treatments? Explain how the hyperbaric oxygen chamber what does that do? That's a tool that is to help treat cancer. Yes,

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 42:21

but you have to be in good LOGIQ AI to get the full benefit of hyperbaric oxygen, let me tell you, Okay, when you take a radiation to your cancer cells, or your tumor somebody or radiates you a lump, or an area or whatever, the radiation beams come into the tissue and they hit oxygen molecules that might be in the vicinity, causing that oxygen to become a radical. And radicals will damage DNA, RNA and protein. So radiation causes oxidative stress in the area of the tumor. The problem that radiation doesn't always work is there's so much hypoxia that there's less oxygen Radek, there's less oxygen molecules in this non oxygenated or hypoxic event, making the radiation less less effective, what what hyperbaric oxygen does, and you also have to realize the cancer cell has has protective mechanisms against reactive oxygen species. But those protective mechanisms are driven by the fermentation fuels glucose and glutamine. So as you lower the glucose and glutamate, the cancer cell becomes more susceptible to oxygen radical damage. So yeah, you can use radiation, or you can go into a hyperbaric oxygen. So what you do is you get into a low G Aki glucose ketone index, knowing that the tumor cells, a protective shield of antioxidant is now lowered. And then when you raise the oxygen in your bloodstream, when you have very little fuels to protect them. The tumor cells start dying naturally. It's all based on evolutionary biology man, once you understand evolutionary biology, all this stuff makes perfect sense. Problem is very few people understand evolutionary biology. Hey,

Chuck Shute: 44:04

I don't understand i To me this what you're saying. It makes sense. Just common sense. Like the you know, eating natural foods as opposed to highly processed foods is going to benefit you. Health wise, I think that we I think we can agree with that. And also even YouTube has not taken down any of your interviews. I haven't said it's flagged for misinformation or disinformation or ever. So there must be some truth in what you're saying.

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 44:27

What do you mean truth? I mean, what what number of scientific articles right? What can you change? I mean, what I'm

Chuck Shute: 44:32

saying that's why I say oh, that's, you know, there's always like, anytime I try to have guests like this on, people will say, Oh, well, that's just you know, people will there's naysayers, right, I'm sure you've had some

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 44:44

Yeah, because they don't look at the scientific paper, right. Now read the literature, you know, oh, he can't be right. I said that you read the page. Same with the biopsy. You know, these guy Oh, you shouldn't scare people tell him to take a biopsy could spread the cancer and what the Christ I read them, why don't you read go in the literature and read how many The papers have shown that, oh, I didn't know that. Well, for crying, you're the one treating the patients you should know that, you know, for crying out gets me so upset. These just brush things off. Oh, there should be a clinical trial who were that important? What was going to do the claim damn clinical trial? You know? Oh, well, the federal government should know that our federal government's not going to do the clean list of patients demanded. They won't do it. So you have an ideological dogma here. They're telling you everybody is thinking that cancer is a genetic disease. And when you're thinking it's a genetic disease, you're chasing things all the time that aren't relevant to the nature of the problem. Your precision medicine attivo Keytruda Carty immunotherapy, we're going to attack that with that mutation on that tumor. So what was mutations that downstream epiphenomena? Those same epitopes could be on your liver and kidney? Why do you think some of these people die from liver and kidney failure by the immunotherapy that's supposed to target the tumor? So what's going on with that? That I mean, this is the whole thing. People have to know the biology but and I don't expect them to know what I know. But damn it, I publish the papers, they can read it. And I always say you have to have some modicum of scientific literacy. That's one of the things I do if you see, I try to teach scientific literacy. So we're not walking in the dark all the time, right? You know, people want to stay alive, they need to read these papers. oncologist want to help their patients, they need to read these papers. They don't read the papers, we continue to persist with a failed system. People are dying. Do you know that we're 1700 people a day are dying in the United States from cancer, that 70 an hour. I mean, this is six times greater than the fentanyl drug overdose thing. Six times greater than that you won't hear anybody talking about all the dead people from cancer. 50% of the people that are treated with cancer are dying from the treatments. They're dying.

Chuck Shute: 46:46

Well, that's an interesting thing that you said with a lot of these, like super rich guys like Paul Allen, I think you use an example. They're getting the latest cutting edge treatment, which are these really dangerous drugs, and they're dying faster, right? Yeah.

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 47:00

I said the rich are gonna be the first guys, the poor will will inherit this stuff. I mean, it can't afford all that stuff. So you might as well do fasting and ketogenic diets. They'll stay alive longer than the rich guy is going in for this really expensive stuff. Maybe you have trust in the medical system. Don't no doubt, listen, if you're doing cardiovascular replacement, and you know, heart work, and hip and bone replace replacements, knee build rebuilding, I mean, that part of medicine has achieved such an incredible degree of precision and success. But when you're dealing with chronic diseases like cancer, type two diabetes, we have an abysmal record in working on that and all it comes down to diet, mostly diet and lifestyle issues.

Chuck Shute: 47:47

Yeah, well, wasn't it like I thought I read something and hope I don't get fired for misinformation if this isn't

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 47:52

correct, but it's always gonna happen. They can't they cancel you. Not me. Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 47:57

well, this will be me because I'm saying it. But I thought I read this thing where it said, pharmacies, Big Pharma gets 100 got 123 made 123 billion in 2018, I think for 2024 was destined to be estimated to be 236 billion. So how do they that's a tough sell in a boardroom like, Hey, I think we got a way to help, you know, increase lives and success with cancer. We just do a ketogenic diet and their profits would plummet. Yeah,

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 48:24

of course, don't forget all that money that it costs a lot of money to advertise all that stuff on television every night. You got people dancing, you got people smiling, and then they tell you all the all the all the things that are going to kill you if you take that that medicine, normally this 20% of the commercial is how great it is the green background boats guy smiling, and then 80% of how many ways this cancer is going to kill this treatment is going to kill you.

Chuck Shute: 48:51

Next commercials the lawsuit about if you got harmed from that drug? Yeah, it was so great. Well,

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 48:56

that's a that's a very good point. Because the the the the industry lawsuit industry has been paralyzed in trying to stop some of the ways we're treating cancer patients because they say this is the standard of care. Therefore, the term standard of care protects the people giving poisonous radiation and chemicals to these people, because the field determines that that is the best we can do to help somebody stay alive a little bit longer. So treating somebody with a brain tumor with radiation, which contributes rapidly to their death is not is not a criminal criminal liability. It's not considered malpractice, because they're considered to be doing but I'm saying when you irradiate somebody's brain with a tumor, you free up massive amounts of glucose and glutamine. You throw the steroids on, you get the moonface. That's medical malpractice, as far as I'm concerned, because you're killing the dam patients are protected. They're protected under the standard of care. So, I mean, it's not it might be these treatments. might be good under certain conditions, but man, the poor folks have no clue on how to use the tools they have. Yeah, it's scary. It's an eye and what do we have for it? We have 1700 people a day dying from all these, these things, not insignificant.

Chuck Shute: 50:16

What about the use of cannabis? I read this study. It was a groundbreaking study by researchers for researchers from Charles Darwin University into the Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology where they they pulled a cannabis extract called cannibal cannabinoid pH. E. C. 66. On melanoma cells. Are you familiar with that? Would that work in conjunction? It all helps,

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 50:38

you know, I wish I had I tried getting cannabis oil from the Federal unbelievable. So I said, Listen, marijuana causes an increase in basal metabolic rate. That's why people get hungry, they get munchie. Remember, marijuana munchies? your basal metabolic rate goes up, that means you're burning energy a little faster. Okay, so my hypothesis was, why don't we give mice with cancer, cannabis oil, while we're undergoing a therapeutic fast, or calorie restriction on these mice, their basal metabolic rate will go up the you're eating less food, so the sugar in the blood will be going down. And that means auto lytic. Cannibalism, the way the body attacks, the tumor would be accelerated, getting rid of the tumor faster. I thought this was the greatest thing. So I tried to get cannabis oil. It damn federal had federal agents in here, check in the universe. Oh, yeah, we had to build a special box. I had a drop listen to this, once it was less, it was a half an ounce. You couldn't even get a taste of whiskey, but it's a half an ounce. And I had to we had to build a special room and the university. And then we had to make like kids were breaking into it. And it would set off alarms in the Boston College Police Station. And they how long the federal agents with timing, how long it would take for the Boston College Police to get to the room where the cannabis was stored. And I'm saying for one drop, and then I had to go through the state. And then I would, I would I would get these licenses right to do this. And by the time we got everything set up, the license expired, I had paid another $500 for a new license. And my students who wanted to do it, they all graduated after one after another granted, we never got it off the ground. And so I never was able to do the experiment because of the damn bureaucratic bullshit that surrounded this. And then we had to finally have somebody come in and redo the world tearing the metal box down the lockbox. And I mean, this is nuts. So for what everybody's smoking marijuana on the streets now and I had to go through all this stuff. But anyway, your your your answer, your question seems to be irrelevant. I would have liked to have studied that in a really good scientific controlled experiment to see whether or not there was validity to the question. You asked me through a comprehensive control scientific experiment? Unfortunately, I cannot give you the answer to that question.

Chuck Shute: 53:03

Wow, that is fascinating. That bureaucratic bullshit. Basically, you're preaching to the choir on that one. I don't understand it. But I mean, I think you're doing amazing work. I just just like, it seems like we have to get the word out somehow.

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 53:17

Yeah, well, you know, the word I just went through, everybody's asking me how to get there. Well, you guys are all talking to me, right?

Chuck Shute: 53:22

You've done some huge shows. Have you tried to get on Rogan? I feel like if you were on Joe Rogan that would go viral? I

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 53:28

don't I don't ask anybody. They come to me. They want to know, they come to me, like you and others. All these other people. They want to hear what I have to say, I'm not going out. Hey, listen to me. You want to know, I'm not proselytizing any of this stuff? People ask me questions. I answer based on the research that I have done over 40 years of doing this kind of stuff. Working in the epilepsy field with with diet management of epilepsy for decades. I mean, doing this biochemistry and genetics and analysis of this stuff for decades, publishing these papers in peer reviewed open access, so people could read them. You know, a lot of people interesting, who if you go and look who's reading them, it's mostly the late people that are reading them. Scientists, though, read them as the guys that shouldn't be reading them, don't read them. It's really,

Chuck Shute: 54:15

it doesn't seem like the doctors are just they're kind of just prescribing the drugs that the pharmaceutical companies are pushing. Yeah. Doesn't seem like they're reading up on the dangers or other ways or

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 54:26

they're overworked the poor guys, let's be honest, the a lot of these physicians, when you there, they've got a line of people out in the hall to try to see they've got to process 20 bodies a day through their systems, whatever the hospital wants, the the poor guys are actually running run ragged in this whole system. You know, physician's assistants, and these kinds of things are trying to take the pressure off these guys. We're not we're not, we're not training enough people to do this stuff and they go to medical school and they get none. None of this information is shared with them. That they should be using metabolic approaches for the management of many chronic diseases, not just cancer, so that that part of them not part of their education, who writes the product that treat the the the curriculum for the medical students that you have to say, is that the hospitals? Is it the pharmaceutical companies who's writing the curriculum for training physicians in the country today, because we have chronic disease, epidemic of chronic diseases, obesity, diabetes, cancer, all of these are chronic diseases that could be easily managed, or much more easily than that we're currently why these visitors and then when you go to them, especially in the cancer, oh, eat as much sugar as you possibly can never heard the cancer cells use sugar is Oh, no, that's that's a myth. As a go on the web, this big thing, myth, cancer cells don't use sugar for energy. Who the hell written by a physician? I said, What the hell, man? Don't so and the poor guy on the street, you know, he doesn't know what's gonna He's going to these guys thinking they know what they're doing. You know, and, and then they say to me, Oh, you don't have an MBA, you should know, you can't really know what you're doing. Well, how are those guys doing who do have MDS in the cancer field? And aren't doing very well? For sure. Right. So,

Chuck Shute: 56:08

I mean, like you said, the rates are getting worse. And that's very concerning. Yeah.

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 56:12

Well, there's one thing you have to be very aware of. And that's when they say, oh, no, no, no, we've made 33% improvement in cancer over the last several decades. Well, I'd see all these dead people piling up, everybody, I seem to talk about kids. No, no. 33. So how did you come up with a 33%? improvement? So here's what you do. You go back at the beginning of the 1990s, we had the anti smoking campaign, everybody stopped smoking. It was it was politically incorrect. Socially, let's put it that way. So it was socially incorrect to be secondhand smoke is bothering me, blah, blah. And all of a sudden, people stop smoking. So the way you get the 33% increase today is your project. If we didn't stop smoking, how much more cancer would we have and 2024. If we didn't stop smoking, the fact that we stopped smoking, we have 33%, less cancer than we should have if everybody continued to smoke. So it's smoke and mirrors. Basically, it's not. But if you have metastatic cancer, your probability of survival today is not much of any better than it was in 1990. In fact, in 1970, as a matter of fact, for brain cancer, we have never, we have not made any major progress in 100 years. Survival in 1925, for glioblastoma, was about eight to 14 months. Survival in 2024, is about eight to 15 months. You're telling me you've made progress, no progress. So people gotta get angry about this. I mean, I don't know what to say,

Chuck Shute: 57:44

Ah, I'm pissed off. Yeah, for sure. And it's not just, I mean, this is just like a slice of this whole pharmaceutical. It problem, I mean, and now they're making those, I'm sure you've seen one of the documentaries, or you're aware of the Sadler brothers, and that whole thing when the drugs that they the painkillers that they were saying, Oh, these are totally safe, and then it killed all these people.

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 58:06

Made them have drug addiction and all this. You know, it's sad, but, you know, it's, it's part of who we are as people like taking pills. It's another thing too. People love taking pills. I don't take any pills.

Chuck Shute: 58:19

I don't I would prefer not to. I mean, I would take it if there was something that you know, was gonna kill me and I had to take the pill, but it wouldn't be first choice. I would rather

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 58:28

I take pills for acute issues. Like when I had my hip replacement. I served oxy code on once, you know, but

Chuck Shute: 58:38

that's never been said. And also like, there are some drugs, obviously, that you're you're recommending that could use. But these are like are not big. What's the other one that because it was doin that we mentioned there was another one in Bendis. All which is like a parasite medication. And it's the glutamine as well. But he's like 50 cents a tablet and India.

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 58:57

Well, it's crazy man. I'll tell you it's nuts. This guy, Joe Tippins, took the fenbendazole which is a horse the warmer and showed that he got rid of his his metastatic lung cancer. You got to listen to you got to get Joe Tippins on here. He's got to you know, he was the anatomy for 300 clinical trial. He was the only guy that took the fenbendazole he was the only guy that survived the only survivor of the clinical trial was the only guy that took the fence, the worm, the parasite drug. And then they had to throw out the whole clinical trial because one guy was a survivor. And they didn't know whether it was their wonderful immunotherapy that led him to survive, or was it the fact that he that he took the fenbendazole so you have to do another and God forbid you do a big clinical trial, you show that half the people who take fenbendazole survived three four times longer than the guys who take the immunotherapy without the fenbendazole you know what that will do to the investors investment in that particular drug and go, Why the hell are we taking that? Well, we can do the Fed Ben result, which you said is pennies. Now what happened was the Koreans, South Koreans heard about this and they had a run on fenbendazole. Clean every every petstore. Country was empty. So it's a big article published on all this stuff is unbelievable. But you know, we showed that fenbendazole embedded these parasite medications, they seem to target the same metabolic pathways that the cancer cells use. So there's an overlap and how the cancer cell gets energy and how the parasite gets energy. So anti parasitic drugs seem to be knocking, knocking down some of these cancers, but the drugs work infinitely better when you're in nutritional ketosis. Everything works better in nutritional ketosis. Radiation works better when you're in nutritional ketosis. Poisonous drugs work better lower doses when you're in nutritional ketosis. And that's up to the patient, the doctor will not tell you to get into nutritional ketosis with the patient telling

Chuck Shute: 1:00:52

them that they're telling patients the opposite, eat a bunch of sugar and ice cream, and that is your your cancer.

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 1:00:58

It's not going to cure your cancer, it's going to keep your body weight. It's the body weight, they're fearful that you're going to lose body weight. Why you lose body weight? Well, you have pathological body weight loss, and you have nutritional, therapeutic, what we call therapeutic weight loss. When you stop eating, do fasting, that's you lose body weight, you get healthy and you feel good. When you have when you are poised if somebody poisons you, you feel like you can't, can't eat, you feel nauseated, you're going to lose body weight, cut Texia from cancer is pathological body weight loss, because the tumors are sucking the glutamine out of the muscles and getting it and driving it driving the thing. So you're losing body weight, cut Texia, you're losing body weight, because some guy poisoned you in in an attempt to make you healthy. So they say here, take the infimum of the donuts and get your body up. I mean, it's nuts, man. And then then we had this case where this guy weighed 350 or some over massively overweight. And they were concerned that this guy from the chemo was going to lose too much body weight. He weighed 350 pounds, what do you tell you're worried about? You know, you want to on the weight loss, weight loss things, just take some chemo, take chemo, you'd have to worry about gaining weight. I'll say that, but your microbiome gets blown out. Your gut is all destroyed, you're hemorrhaging. I mean, this is nuts, man. This is what they're doing to make it healthy. Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 1:02:16

well, so what is the cure for the the microbiome thing? There's some natural things that you can altra, Violet blood irradiation are those things that would help?

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 1:02:28

Well, your microbiome is heavily dependent on glutamine, it's glutamine. This is another thing, you got to be so careful when you target glutamine. Because glutamine is used by the cancer cell, but it's also used by your gut and immune system as well. So this is why what I say is not as maybe straightforward as you might think. But we are very, very aware of how we have to target the glutamine issue, because we have, we have to keep our health. And we know that the adversary cancer cell is using and needing the same fuel that our gut and our immune system needs. So that's why we develop the press, you can press glucose, and you just pulse pulse, glutamine, glutamine to kill the cancer cell, but not harming the gut, or the immune system. So this is a strategy that that we are working on currently. And our funding for this comes from private foundations and philanthropy. There are people out there, believe it or not, that feel that what we're doing could make a massive impact on the lives of people. And they don't feel that they have to make a buck on what we're doing, other than to know that the ultimate outcome for managing cancer is ultimately what we're doing here in our research. So So those folks support us, and we can do all these kinds of experiments, to test critically test with control experiments, all of the things that I'm saying, because when I speaking to you about this stuff, is because I have done many of these experiments and I have evaluated data doing this. And I know what the outcomes happen to be. And they they work in people just as well as they they work much better in humans than they work in mice. I can tell you that and dogs Oh my I published the paper on that dog right with the mast cell tumor on his face. Go look at that open access. Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 1:04:12

that was an interesting story. Cuz you said that you thought the dog or ketogenic diet you're feeding them wasn't raw chicken, and then they know you're gonna kill them with salt.

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 1:04:23

You gotta love it. I know you gotta love it. I mean, it's unbelievable how people react to this stuff. So yeah, yeah, no, this woman and so I so I must be doing this poor woman. She never went to medical school. You know, it's just it's a dog owner. She just listened to my YouTube videos. And she gives the poor dog raw chicken with the bone in it. Little Fish oil and a couple of raw eggs. And then the damped tumor starts shrinking off the dog's face, and the dog died of old days from heart failure. So how was one cure? I can tell you that dog was cured of its mast cell tumor. That's

Chuck Shute: 1:04:59

amazing. No, no, because like I said at the beginning, it was weird. My cat got cancer. I was like, I mean, he doesn't smoke. How does a cat Carol or pets getting cancer? Okay,

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 1:05:08

they're getting cancer from the crap food that we're putting in those cans.

Unknown: 1:05:12

The humans in Yes, absolutely. Yes.

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 1:05:15

These dogs are morbidly obese. Yep, we go to New York City. Everybody's got a fat dog walking on a leash. You know, I mean, it's like what's going on these poor dogs. They're so perfectly lean in there in the wild wolves look at a wolf. When was the last time you saw a morbidly obese wolf running around? You know? And they put corn and they put vegetables in the dog foods, right? of carbohydrates, wolves and these kinds of animals. They don't attack cornfields. The farmer who owns cornfields never worries about my sheep. Now it's eating my corn, right?

Chuck Shute: 1:05:53

Yeah, they're doing the same thing to our cattle, right? I mean, most beef now is corn fed and not grass fed.

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 1:06:00

Oh, yeah. But I tell you do a taste test between corn fed beef and a free range beef. There's a huge difference in taste. The the corn fed beef is softer, it's more tender. Because my professor from Herman Brocklin, from Illinois State University, owns of organic farm and he said you could have the cows, corn, corn cows did not evolve to eat corn, so they get massive acid indigestion, eating the corn, and then you give them a lot of anti acids to reduce the acidity in the cow's stomach. And that's what makes the meat real tender. So and people love it man, they love corn fed if you go to all the top steak restaurants, oh, we got corn fed beef here, you know. And then if you I like if you're going to do free range beef, you have to soy Fayette, you have to kind of heated up for a while to break down some of the collagen. And it can be flipped and much more flavorful it is it doesn't have as much fat for sure. But it was alfalfa, corn, grass fed cows that were exercised. And this kind, yeah, the meats a little tougher, it's much more flavor and the color is different. You can look it's darker red than the than the the corn fed stuff. So but you know, it's a personal choice, whether you want the corn fed or the free range, and this good chefs that know how to make the free range can be as softer put it this way, as you know, as nice as it can be afford the cornfed. So she could say,

Chuck Shute: 1:07:30

yeah, so Can people if they started on the ketogenic diet, I mean, if they don't have cancer, would this help, possibly, potentially allegedly prevent getting cancer or having real cancer.

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 1:07:43

As I said, in my writings, it's very, very hard to get cancer, when you think about what kind of abuse that we have to do to our body, to make it have a bunch of cells growing out of control. I mean, you really have to beat the crap you have to, you really have to abuse your body for decades to get a tumor. Because our ancestors are Aboriginal folks with cancer was almost non Arab. They were these guys eaten their, their, their natural ways. It was recorded in history. All these guys are showing this. So to prevent cancer, you got to keep your mitochondria healthy. Because the only way you get the predominant way to get cancer is damaging oxidative phosphorylation, leading to a compensatory substrate level phosphorylation. So you really have to abuse the hell out of your mitochondria. To do that. Now we live in a toxic environment, we get bits and pieces of plastics, we have these forever chemicals. We're sitting on our ass, we're highly processed foods, we're not exercising, all that together, will damage mitochondria in some population of cells in some in some organ. But if you can keep yourself healthy enough, exercise enough and try to reduce your blood sugar occasionally, not to say we should never rejoin it and jelly doughnuts or pizzas or any of this stuff. I look at that as kind of a treat. You know, it's not something to be to survive on. But every now and then it tastes really good to have one of these highly processed things. We all love them. We need them. McDonald's hamburgers, Taco Bell, all this stuff is very, very delicious. You know, you get Chick fil A if I have a chicken sandwich from Chick fil A,

Chuck Shute: 1:09:11

oh, you ever had the Chick fil A chicken strips with the Chick fil A sauce?

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 1:09:15

So unbelievable, you know? So good, right? And the waffle fries. Oh, God Almighty. You know, you go to IHOP and you pour all the sugar on top of sugar and coffee sugar

Chuck Shute: 1:09:29

people this is an occasional like once a week maybe

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 1:09:32

or whatever. You know, the problem is is that obviously we're not doing it once a week we got an obesity epidemic these guys are hanging around the place they're waiting for it to open in the morning. You know

Chuck Shute: 1:09:43

well it's so it's hard it's not easy but I mean if you could try to reduce is what you're saying and and how like what would be a realistic diet and fasting like fast once a week once a month, once, three times a year. What would you recommend? You know we are obsessive

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 1:10:01

species of people, we obsess, you know, some people will go out, they'll fast themselves to death, like some of these anorexics. And then, you know, I think we have the social emotional kinds of conditions, human, so many of us are addicted to alcohol, cigarettes, drugs, sex, I don't know, everybody has some sort of an addiction. I just think the most important thing is just to be aware, just to be a lot of people aren't even aware of the stuff that we're speaking about here. So if you are aware, at least you have, nobody's forcing you to eat all of these kinds of things, or nobody's depriving you, Alicia, thrown in prison or something like this. And even the prisoners seem to do pretty well. They're not you know, fasted for go to prison, we're not going to give you food for three weeks, you know, a lot. You'd be surprised how few people would want to go to prison after that. Right. But, but, no, I think we all have to judge for ourselves, what we think might be the best based on the education that we have, and what we see around us in our environment. So, you know, there's no mystery why we have type two diabetes, why we have cancer, macular degeneration, cardiovascular disease, depression, which is another event related to chronic chronic problems related to diet and exercise, all of these things are all connected to this, how many of us are gonna go back and live like cavemen in the Paleolithic period? Right? Not many people. So, you know, we we develop grains, civilization arose around our ability to cultivate wheat and rice and these kinds of things, we build cities around the food, that's how we develop civilization. Otherwise, you know, we were hunter gatherers, and it's not easy living, oh, geez, you know, I'm really a little hungry, I got to chase down this deer now for three days, stab the crap out of it, carve it all up. I mean, and then I gotta bring it back to the family. And if I don't bring it back to the family, I'm not gonna even go back that they won't let me back in the in the huddled back there. You know, this is a lot of energy after waste trying to kill him, or dig out some tuber out of the ground. Oh, wow. I just think we just, you know, it's a lot of people are always looking for something to eat, they're walking around all the time trying to find something to eat. But now we build the grains and all this stuff. And now we're paying a price for the success of our technologies. But I think people should know that, that the technological advances have another side to them. And that other side is chronic disease. And as long as we can manage some level of monitoring moderation, for a species that's mostly in moderate. So So, but again, knowledge is power. And I think that if everybody could understand these things, it won't be such a mystery.

Chuck Shute: 1:12:58

Yeah. Well, I think that obsessive thing that you're talking about, I mean, people that you know, maybe they get really into drugs, or they get really an alcohol, or so they could change that and shift it and get really into exercise and really into diet, and then they can be obsessive about oh, yeah,

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 1:13:13

you got you got CrossFit. Those guys are really unbelievably healthy. You ever see these CrossFit guys? Oh, yeah, you know, I mean, they're all into this stuff all the time, you know, doing this kind of stuff? Well, I

Chuck Shute: 1:13:23

think that's what I tried to do is I try to ask people that are really into shape and really good health, Hey, what are you doing? And rather than listen to my, you know, television, commercial, or whatever, I try to ask people that I, I can see them, they're in really good health. I'm sure some of that is genetics. But a lot of times it's their workout routine. It's their diet, nation.

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 1:13:41

Well, we're blame. We're also in the blame game business, we want to blame obesity on our genes. If it weren't for our genes to store energy, we would have been exterminated as a species, we would have gone extinct. Okay, you and I would never have this conversation. If we didn't have genes that stored energy, those same genes that allowed us to survive as a species during hard times, are now killing us by storing so much energy, that we're choking off all the things that we need to remain healthy. And that's all evolutionary biology. And if you understand evolutionary biology, everything I'm saying makes perfect sense. And it's just the way things are. But when you don't understand that everything Oh, it's a mystery. I don't know. I don't have to get that. Well, I don't know what.

Chuck Shute: 1:14:23

No, I don't think it's a mystery. I mean, I think a lot of this stuff is is pretty clear cut when like you said, I mean Logically, if you look at it, what what are all these rates of diseases rising? What are the differences in our lifestyle and our diet and the things going into our food? And like in your book, you mentioned the Omega six, which people can research that why that's worse than the threes and the nines and, you know,

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 1:14:46

fish oils and things like this are very, very healthy. Whereas arachidonic acid, you know, Omega fours, and these things are much less healthy. So you have to know that but again, when you're fasting water only fasting you don't really worry about about a lot of that stuff. You Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 1:15:00

but what is and you say like for some people could go really far on the water fasting, but what is the average person want to do with a water fast? Like maybe three days? Four days?

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 1:15:10

No, you're still in misery misery. I tried it man. It's brutal. Try it. Yeah, how long you go without eating up tried doing water only fasting.

Chuck Shute: 1:15:20

I've done a juice kind of fat which is

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 1:15:24

cheating cheating, really Motorola's you go do it and tell me come back and tell me what it's like.

Chuck Shute: 1:15:31

But you said if you go to the keto diet for 10 to 14 days first and then

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 1:15:35

that's it's a jump off like you're jumping off a wall. Right? Okay, it's better to stair step off the wall than to jump. Well, yeah, right. So at

Chuck Shute: 1:15:43

that point, you could do three or four days to to, to maybe at least,

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 1:15:48

oh, yeah, you know, I did a three day water only fast with one of my friends. Because my wife told me she says you can't do you tell all these people and you can't do it? You know, so I saw I'll try it man, I tell you brutal. The, you know, the second day, you're, you're looking at your pet in a different way. You know? You know, it's just so what we found out, it's better to go zero carb. In other words, eat meat, eat any kind of eventual as long as you can. As long as you can reduce the carbohydrates in your diet. And then your body is walking the steps down into you're adjusting slowly, your body's getting used to the fact that you're not pouring in the carbs. And then when you jump off to the water only, it's not so shocking to the physiology of your body. And you can go longer, and the guys who are destroying their cancer like Gaitan Abom, who had terminal prostate cancer. He had type two diabetes, hypertension, prostate cancer, he had everything under the sun. He did these water fasts for 1820 days, followed by intermittent zero carb diets. And he's doing really well. You want to interview interview him. He's He's very healthy now. He's supposed to be dead years ago. He's doing fine. Yeah. And

Chuck Shute: 1:17:09

was there another guy? Tom Agus, what was his name?

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 1:17:13

Dominic D'Agostino, he's, you know, yeah, but DOM is always in like a nutritional ketotic state. He's like, muscle man. I mean, he's, he and he's the he and I worked on him majorly, mainly for the hyperbaric oxygen stuff. He works with the NASA, he works with the military, to improve their physical health and all of this kind of stuff. So he's a fascinating guy as well, that will have a deep understanding of what I'm saying, we work together, we publish papers together on this whole thing. That's

Chuck Shute: 1:17:43

great. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you so much for doing this. This is great information. And I hope we can get the word out. I'll see what I can do if I can pull a string with I know a guy that that was on Joe Rogan, I don't feel talk to me, but I should send him your name and see if we can even there.

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 1:17:58

Yeah, well, I think it's coming. The change is we're going to have a tipping point at which the entire world will understand what we need to do and how how to do it. Because people basically want this, they want to know how to manage disease without being poisoned and irradiated. And we can do that. It's just the word people need to know it. The medical field needs to know it, the system needs to know it, and it will happen. It's just a matter of time. You know, but I appreciate the questions, you seem to have looked into some of the background about what we're doing. So the questions are spot on. And I have mostly what I think are correct answers. I don't have an answer for everything. Because I didn't haven't studied everything yet. Sure, where the the more money we get for our research through the private foundations allows us to move forward, I bring in very skilled young people. We're always designing new experiments to test the hypothesis of what it takes to kill kill cancer cells without toxicity. Amazing.

Chuck Shute: 1:19:04

And I think it's cool to that. If people have questions or if they have cancer and they want to reach out to you we'll email them some more information and

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 1:19:13

I do that I free I can't I can't take any money from anybody. You know, this is I have a job here at the university. My job is to teach undergraduates and graduate students and do and do research. But people if they're excited, and they want to see our research progressed and they can give money to the Travis Kristofferson foundation for a metabolic cancer therapies, George use foundation, and they can and they can give money right to my biology department here at BC Boston College, okay. There's a lot of ways and you know, I'm getting anonymous gifts, which is great. You know, people don't even want to have their name associated with it is here. I know you're doing good. I know you're right. And I know it's going to change. I just want to be part of it. I'd say great, because then I can hire a new person. And we can do a whole new series of experiments.

Chuck Shute: 1:20:04

Amazing. I love it. Yeah, definitely more money for the research would be amazing. I love that I

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 1:20:09

give it all that money goes to my staff. So my staff are the ones that don't animals. They charge a lot of money to do these, these mouse experiments. Oh, yeah. So you have to do it again and again, and you have to publish in peer reviewed journals. And it's the process is at a meet. Yeah.

Chuck Shute: 1:20:27

Well, thank you so much for doing this. I'll put all the links in the show notes and we'll get this episode up soon.

Dr. Thomas Seyfried: 1:20:33

Okay, check this and thank you very much.

Chuck Shute: 1:20:34

Thank you. Appreciate it. Nice to meet you.