Tim R. Swartz (author)

Tim R. Swartz is an Emmy-Award winning television producer/videographer, and is the author of a number of popular books including “The Lost Journals of Nikola Tesla” and “Admiral Byrd’s Secret Journey Beyond The Poles.” We discuss both those books in the episode as well as the Philadelphia Experiment, the Montauk Project, hidden underground caverns in the U.S. and more!

0:00:00 - Intro
0:00:14 - Welcome Tim!
0:00:55 - Tim's Work with the Pyramids
0:06:15 - Theories on Pyramids
0:11:35 - Mysteries on Islands
0:18:40 - Legends & Myths of Underground People
0:24:25 - Hiding Secret Areas From the Public
0:26:24 - Underground Caverns
0:33:00 - Nazis, Antartica & Holy Lance of Jesus
0:41:15 - Antartica & Operation High Jump
0:58:45 - Nikola Tesla
1:06:10 - Tesla's Failed Inventions
1:15:20 - Nazi Bell Ship  & Bob Lazar Craft
1:21:05 - Philadelphia Experiment
1:30:28 - The Montauk Project
1:42:15 - C.E.R.N.
1:46:50 - Tim's Books
1:50:09 - Outro

Tim R. Swartz Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/trswartz/

Chuck Shute link tree:
https://linktr.ee/chuck_shute

Transcript

Chuck Shute: 0:13

Hello, Tim.

Tim Swartz: 0:15

Hey Chuck, how's it going? Good. How are you? I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on today. Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 0:21

thanks for doing this. I really appreciate it. I've got as you can see, I've got three of your books that I binge read over the weekend. So I'm trying oh my god, I can't try to watch them your alien episodes, ancient alien episodes. And I tried to listen some of your interviews, but it looks like I still have not been able to figure out everything that you just read in your bio. I was like, Wait, the pyramid stuff. You worked on that too? Like, there's so many things. I keep learning more about you. It's amazing how much you've done.

Tim Swartz: 0:50

Yeah, I've been around the block a couple times.

Chuck Shute: 0:54

What is it? You did? Explain that? You explored the pyramids? You went there? Yeah.

Tim Swartz: 1:00

Oh, yeah, that was my past job was I was in television production. And the station that I worked for, used to do a, basically, it was a morning agriculture report, you know, amongst other things, and one time, a number of times, we got sent overseas, with various either state or federal government organizations. And while I was in these various locations, I got into contact with people I knew in these countries who are also involved in, you know, investigating paranormal activity, UFOs, cryptids, things like that, and just got to meet with him and go to some locations, when I have the time that they were working on. One of the locations was the the great pyramids on the Giza Plateau, the person who took us there just happened to be a government official. So we got access to places, you know, on the Giza Plateau, that, you know, weren't normally access, you know, accessible to tourists on the like,

Chuck Shute: 2:18

was there anything that you saw there that surprised you that you wouldn't see on TV or read about in a book or anything? Well,

Tim Swartz: 2:24

you know, I mean, there are all kinds of blocked up doorways, and passageways, and things like that, that are written about, but really, nobody has access to them. Some of them have been blocked up for 100 years or more, you know, the, we didn't, I mean, you know, we didn't personally weren't able to go up on top of it. But the Sphinx has an entrance way on the top of its head. If you go online, and look, you'll see like drone footage and stuff that that shows it but it's not talked about, I guess that there have been some shows that we're able to get inside of it, but only for, you know, a little ways. And you know, it's either, too, too dangerous or just awful limits period.

Chuck Shute: 3:24

Yeah. It's interesting. My dad went and looked at the pyramids. And he said, one of the things that surprised him was he he said, he goes, Well, I never realized when I got inside, it's a very tight tunnel. And he's like, I realized I was claustrophobic. I was like, actually, I think that's probably a natural reaction from what the way he described how small those tunnels are. I would be I think anybody would be kind of freaked out.

Tim Swartz: 3:47

The grand passage that that takes you in there is huge. Oh, remade it? Oh, my gosh, you would not believe how big that is. And there's just it really, I don't think it was made for people to walk up. So they've put like wooden steps on the floor. So you can climb up at but it's pretty big. But you know, like once you get into say like, what's called the king's chamber. Yeah, that's fairly good size, about the size of a room. But then if you go on into some of the like, cash, I can't remember what it was called. But there's there's another room on top of the king's chamber that small that, you know, you have to duck count down to get into, and then if you go to the base of the pyramid, there is a really, really tiny, tiny room and a small passageway to get into that. Some would say that that was like supposed to be the original burial ground of the king, but that But after a while, they decided to, you know, put it in the middle of the pyramid. You know, who knows? Interest?

Chuck Shute: 5:06

Is it cold inside of those? Because it's like it's so down into the ground and everything covered by the sun or is it stuffy? Like, what is it the temperature like in there?

Tim Swartz: 5:16

I seem to remember that it was slightly cooler than the outside. But it seemed to be it was a little bit more humid. Okay, but no, it wasn't cold. Not No, not cold at all.

Chuck Shute: 5:29

Does it? What does it smell like? Because it's so old. Is there such a weird smell or anything?

Tim Swartz: 5:35

No, it smelled like rocks and dust. Yeah, that's, that's, that's the thing that I remember. And I remember that. The, the producer who went with with me on this trip, he kept looking around. And just like, you know, this has been up for 1000s of years. He goes, Don't you think it's about time? Yeah, he kept thinking it was gonna collapse at any time. He, I think he was a little claustrophobic about

Chuck Shute: 6:06

Yeah, that would be scary. So what is your theory with the pyramids, because I think I remember when I was a kid, just learning about in school was just kind of like, okay, there was a civilization and they, you know, like, we learned about how they buried the dead and all this. And that's what the pyramid was for. And now all this stuff is coming out these theories about aliens and how these pyramids might have been used for some sort of electrical signals and things. I mean, do you think there's any credence in any of that?

Tim Swartz: 6:30

Well, I don't think that it was built by aliens. And I know a lot of people are disappointed, you know, when I say that, because they think that I, you know, I'm gonna be like, oh, yeah, flying saucers came down and levitate the blocks. No, no, I mean, I think that they, that they were manmade structures. Now, there's the possibility. Because I have tossed around the the the theory, that word we haven't, we're not the only superior civilization that has arisen on this planet. All right, there were probably others before us that, you know, that may have achieved a technology, you know, may be comparable to ours and beyond. But, you know, I mean, the the Earth has been here for, you know, a couple billion years. So, you know, a lot can happen, and, you know, arise and disappear in shorter periods of time than that. So there could be a possibility that there was another civilization pre Ice Age, that, for whatever reason, suffered a catastrophe, maybe a natural catastrophe, and that there were survivors that were scattered all across the world that still had remnants of this knowledge. And you see this in a number of ancient writings that talk about how, you know, the early people from Google from this, this civilization, were pretty barbaric. But then there were the gods, you know, quotation mark gods that either came from the seas or from the mountains or things like that, who brought them knowledge, mathematics are agricultural, things like that, you know, the, so there could be a possibility that the ancient Egyptians were taught the the mathematics to in order to start their civilization and to be able to build the pyramids, but manmade, definitely. Well,

Chuck Shute: 8:40

how did they, but then how did they do that? And how did they carry those bricks? And I mean, do you think there's tools that we haven't found yet, or, I mean, I guess there's three possibilities. One is, you know, whatever the story that they we learned in school, you know, they carry the bricks and yada, yada, yada, or there was some other technology that either we haven't found, or or there's some technology that we found that has is being covered up. Right. Is that a possibility? This has been hidden from the general public? Yeah, I don't

Tim Swartz: 9:09

think it's been hidden from the general public. I think that right now, we just don't really know. I mean, the, the stones that make up the pyramid, I mean, they're, they're big, but they're not huge. They're not like megalith but they are heavy. So, I mean, you know, it would take some effort to, to move them into place, you know, the, some of the other megalithic structures that you see around the world, you know, that they do that it has been wondering how they were able to move them and I can't remember the low locations maybe, you know, in Egypt, but there were like, stone quarries Were there were huge pieces of rock. I mean, you know, the the size of buildings that were being carried out that were it was never completed. So, you know, the question. The question is, how did they do it? But I think the real answer to that is they did it because they could, you know, they didn't do it because it was hard. They did it because it was easy. And so, you know, we need to find out how it was easy?

Chuck Shute: 10:40

Well, I guess I'm saying, well, we don't have the answer. Really? No,

Tim Swartz: 10:43

no, well, well, I mean, you know, they'll see like, the stones of the pyramids could be, you know, fairly easily moved with modern day cranes or things like that. Some of these other stones. No, they couldn't be moved, you know, using modern equipment. And it would, it would take a hell of a lot of people, you know, with ropes and dragging them around to try to try to get him to move. So yeah, I mean, you know, I, I wish I had like a good answer. But then again, don't trust anybody who comes to who say, you know, who says, oh, yeah, I've got the definitive answer to all these things. Because

Chuck Shute: 11:20

I think that's what's so fascinating about it is there isn't an answer. So I just like to explore the different possibility. Yeah. And see, I mean, that's what you know, and I think, in those ancient aliens episodes, the ones that one of them that you did was about some of these islands and there was giants are so sorry, stone giants that were like eight feet tall. I think that was the island of Sardinia. That sounds right. And then there was one that I think that one maybe I can't remember which one that Utah

Tim Swartz: 11:49

so it was, yeah, it wasn't Sardinia.

Chuck Shute: 11:54

That was another one. Yeah, maybe there was giant still living there, because there was footprints of giants, which I didn't, they didn't really explain in the episode how those got there. It wasn't, or something it was. There's,

Tim Swartz: 12:06

there's one island and cache. And you have to remember, I did that I did those episodes in 2013. So you know, I've had some brain cells die since then. The, the one that, that I talked about? Quite a bit, was it. It's, it's an island where they actually have made, they made like, other islands, out of these volcanic balsa columns, that they quarried out of, like another location, and then somehow managed to transport them, you know, across the sea, already not a huge amount of ways. I mean, you know, not like hundreds of miles, but you know, like, within the city of the same chain of islands, but still, I mean, you know, you're talking about something that took place, like, you know, maybe I think they were saying, like about 1000. About about the year 1000, after common year. But they, you know, they they built like an entire city and lagoons and roads with these balsa columns. And it's just amazing. And the people who still live there, they say that the people who built these were wizards, and that they were able to float these columns in the air to get to, you know, get to their location. And the columns do retain a magnetic field that isn't common with the rest of the, with the rest of the area, they have a specific electromagnetic magnetic energy about them, you know, like a remnant. And some of the stories that had circulated when the first sailors then in like around the 16 and 1700s got to that area. It supposedly, this island had magical properties that would steer storms away from food islands that were close by islands that were used to grow food for the populations and they were susceptible then to cyclones and flooding. Well, supposedly, this this area, had the magical abilities, you know, magical to cause the storms to deviate, you know, away. So, you know, whatever that is, you know, if it's just myths and legends, but we're Remember, myths and legends probably all have some kind of basis in reality that you know at its originating point. Well, yeah,

Chuck Shute: 15:08

and I think that's what's so interesting when you look around the world, and then you start seeing similarities, because I think that was also in one of the episodes that you did on a if it was one that you talked about, but how they find found some similar markings on the walls in the Grand Canyon that were similar to India like these people with like, elongated heads. I mean, I guess it could be a coincidence, but it's just odd. They'd be drawing a similar type of being in two different totally different parts of the world.

Tim Swartz: 15:38

Oh, yeah. If if you look at ancient writing, petroglyphs, paintings, statues all across the planet, you'll find some really amazing similarities. That, to me shows that, at least within our history, and again, this probably goes to a pre Ice Age, there was a worldwide civilization that had disappeared, for whatever reason, some kind of Cataclysm, know, volcanic activity, something maybe that started the Ice Age, and flooded the planet, which then gives us a lot of these mythologies of of a great flood. Not probably not a worldwide flood, where everything was covered, but floods in various regions, enough that you would have these legends crop up. But But yeah, I mean, you know, I think that there is a connection in our ancient past with with, with all of these types of things, you know, especially those similar writings, out of place writings, you know, like ancient Mesopotamian writings that show up like said, you know, in the Grand Canyon, or in the Midwest of the United States or South America, but I think it just shows that people have been on this planet a lot longer, I think, then modern science is is willing to admit, and that whatever this past civilization, was, it probably it probably had a fairly advanced technology that, you know, who knows, you know, the legend say that it all disappeared in the blink of an eye. So, whatever could have happened, I mean, there's all kinds of different scenarios. You know, and of course, in Earth time, the blink of an eye would be, you know, could be 1000 years, which is pretty short, really, but for you know, people at the time, you know, with the with the floodwaters coming in, inundating coastal regions, societies collapsing, I mean, that's a pretty major event that would then resonate with people all across the planet for generations to come. And we see in some of the spoken word mythologies, just that type of scenario. Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 18:32

well, and that's one of the ones that you talked about in the, the where this one, the Antarctica book, when you talk about it was also it was I never really heard this theory, because you hear about, you know, the aliens and things from outer space. But I never heard this, that there may be things that live under the earth. And you said there was Chinese, Egyptian, Hindu, Eskimo, and even Irish, which I'm Irish. And I didn't know there's legends that in those cultures have a race that lives under the Earth's crust. And that's fascinating. Oh,

Tim Swartz: 19:03

yeah. Well, if you look at most of world mythologies, when it comes to origin stories of the human race, they're either they we either have we've either come from the stars, or our creators Came From the Stars, or we came from underground or our creators came from underground, it's usually one or the other. And you look at the, say, like the Native American, I think it was the Hopi traditions of the ant people. The the the ant people were an underground race that brought us to the surface of the planet. But in even more recent times, the app people came back out from under to ground and took the ancestors of the Hopi back underground, when there was going to be some kind of catastrophic catastrophic events. And again, this may harken back to either the beginning or the end of the Ice Age, when when just you know, all kinds of bad things were going on. But I mean, that's, that is part of the very recent Native American Legends, stories of the AP people in their, their underground world. And this was around the, the Grand Canyon area. And and in fact, there are areas around there that are still considered sacred by the date of population, because this was the area that the human race was taken underground and saved by whatever was going on, on the surface of the planet. But you go all across the planet, and you will find very similar stories of how the the the young human race came out from underground. But when we had lived in the, the big caverns, the giant spaces underground, and had no knowledge of the upper world, but then there was some, you know, like, either a deity or a hero, a human hero, who, who led the population, from the cavern world up into the surface to populate it. But a lot of the stories that then came down to us, especially in like the 18th and 19th century, about the Hollow Earth, you know, that that the planet is hollow inside, lightly, you know, like a rubber like a rubber ball with no center to it. And that the crust is only say about, you know, 1000 miles thick, comes from these ancient stories, which never really referred to the planet like that. But to some of the these, you know, early scientists, you know, that that's, you know, seemed somewhat plausible, we didn't have a lot of knowledge of what the interior of the planet was like. So the the suggestion that the planet could be hollow, and some even suggested that they would, there was a small sun, you know, in the center of this space that then kept the interior heated, you know, that that went on into the the 20th century. I have several books that were written by people in the 20th century that talked about this possibility that, that even that there were openings in the north and south poles that allowed passageway, not only of water and atmosphere. But people if they were brave enough to try to do it. There was there was a photograph, a satellite photograph that was taken sometime in the early 1960s, one of the one of the first photographs of the the Arctic, that seemed to show some kind of giant opening, I think it may be even in that book, that the that you have there. And it was it was published all over the fringe press, you know, saying here's proof, you know, the big polar opening into the Inner Earth, more than likely, it was just an area that that couldn't be photographed, because of either say, the reflection of the ice or the time of the day, that the photographs were taken, because you have to remember, the satellite photographs are taken in square small squares that are then melded together by NASA or whoever's doing the photographs in order to make a composite picture. You know, I mean, at least that's to me, that's, that's probably a more plausible explanation, then there are actually polar openings.

Chuck Shute: 24:25

That hasn't the government said they blocked off certain parts of like Google Maps and Google Earth or whatever, they they blurred stuff out because they said this is a security risk. So it's possible that they could be blurring something out or changing it from Antarctica right.

Tim Swartz: 24:41

Now, that's, you know, that's a possibility. That and this almost harkens to the stories that you see circulating now. And I know I'm gonna get some people honked off at me for saying this but you know, people who believe in the flat earth that there is This big government conspiracy, worldwide, I guess, to hide the fact that the earth is flat. And of course, my question is, is that, you know, most world governments haven't been around long enough to be able to maintain such a conspiracy. And, and some people say, well, it's NASA, NASA is, you know, trying to, you know, hide from us and about NASA only came about in the late 1950s. So who was maintaining this government conspiracy, or the scientific, you know, conspiracy, you know, all these years. And I think it's kind of like that with some of the stories that have cropped up about maintaining secret areas, from the public, you know, by you know, you know, put added your bad guy here, you know, NASA, the government, Google, Twitter, you know, what have you, you know, I, there, I'm fairly satisfied that there has been enough civilian expeditions over most of the planet, to, to pretty much prove to be the first of all, it's not flat, and that there aren't any polar openings either. Now, saying that, that's not to say that there aren't huge caverns, underneath the surface of the planet, we know that that's a fact. South America is riddled with ancient caves and manmade tunnels that lead to you know, huge, huge caverns, some of them volcanic, some of them have been augmented by people. And suppose supposedly, places like the Himalayas, Tibet, Nepal, you know, have very similar networks. Out West, like in especially like in the Four Corners area, New Mexico, places like that, there are stories of similar types of of tunnels, either natural or manmade, augmented. So, I mean, I think that that is a, you know, a very good possibility. And again, this harkens back to a lot of these ancient stories of these ancient civilizations who had who had built and maintained these these places, you know, because to me, what are they and we're doing it today, what better place to save yourself from some kind of catastrophe that's upcoming, then to move underground. You're pretty safe, you don't have to go down that deep. And there are plenty of already established caves that you can move to and then build on to yourself. So, you know, I don't doubt that these locations are real. So

Chuck Shute: 28:11

you think I cuz I never heard of this term until the last few years, dumbs. They call it deep underground military bases, those are legit. I mean, but we do we know how many are underground and where they are? Are these all secret?

Tim Swartz: 28:26

Oh, I would say the majority of them are secret. But I mean, you know, we know that. That they've been built been the Gosh, what is it the NORAD facility in Colorado, is, I mean, this was built right into a mountain. That's that that was well known, I mean, that was supposedly built to safeguard our defense system from any kind of atomic attack. And in fact, it's so well built, that even a direct hit from a tactical nuclear weapon. Probably wouldn't face it now. I doubt it would be very comfortable living inside one of those places, you know, under such circumstances, but they're they're pretty confident that people who survive. So I mean, if they've built one, you know that they've built others. Yeah.

Chuck Shute: 29:35

You think that one is connected to the Denver Airport? That's all a lot of the conspiracies. In Colorado, I'm just wondering, yeah,

Tim Swartz: 29:43

I'm not quite sure how far that that is from the Denver Airport. But you know, the stories go, that especially in the southwest, that there is a whole network of various kinds of tunnels that go from one facility to the other without ever having to get out onto the surface. And again, to me, it makes sense. Because if you're trying to build underground military facilities to safeguard, either from attack or to work on, you know, whatever defense capabilities that you have, then you're going to have to have some efficient way to get around, that's not going to involve coming out onto the surface. And you know, either taking cars, trains or planes, to fellow facilities. Now, whether or not these underground tunnel systems are as vast and far reaching as some people say they are because I mean, you know, you've got some stories that these these networks of tunnels, using, say like, MagLev trains and stuff reaches far as coast to coast. That's United States is a huge country. I feel like

Chuck Shute: 31:22

that would be hard to cover up, like somebody would leak that right?

Tim Swartz: 31:26

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, we, you know, people ask me that he goes, Well, if, you know, if this kind of stuff was real, you would think that information would be leaked? And it's like, well, it has been we're talking about it. It has been leaked. But it sounds a lot of it sounds so crazy, that it ends up in kind of like the stuff that I write about. But, but yeah, and you know, that's, that's one of the efforts that's been made over the years to try, I think, to keep this kind of stuff secret, is to allow bits and pieces of it to get leaked, and then become part of this fringe element, that not only do you have these underground facilities, but they're being manned also by extraterrestrials from Zahra Nikolai, who have signed a treaty with the United States government, to kidnap people and bring them to these facilities to have all kinds of, you know, horrendous experiments done on them. So after a while, you get all this stuff glommed on to the original stories. And most people are just gonna, like, you know, shake their heads and like, that's just more crazy crap.

Chuck Shute: 32:55

Right. Well, so which one though? This one is documented the the Nazis today? Was it a base in Antarctica? I think in the north pole of South Pole, they had some Arctic base, right. It was,

Tim Swartz: 33:06

it was Antarctica. Yeah.

Chuck Shute: 33:07

It was Antara okay, because I think I saw a documentary on it was fascinating. I mean, the thing was empty now, but it was like, what were they doing down there is interesting.

Tim Swartz: 33:16

Oh, yeah. Well, you know, the Germany had been interested in Antarctica for quite a while, even before the war, and like other countries, had set numerous expeditions there just to find out what was going on. But it was determined that a bass be established in Antarctica. At first, they you know, the story was, is that they were going to put up like a weather station. And you have to remember that at the time. Germany had access to the shipping facilities out of South Africa. So I mean, it is not, you know, it's it's a ways to go, but not that far from South Africa, to Antarctica. And the stories go that as the Nazis came into power, it was decided that Antarctica, that this Base In Antarctica would be one of the locations that they would establish and maintain amongst all others, amongst others across the planet that they could get access to Antarctica. It was supposedly didn't belong to anybody. So really, at the time, anybody could build a base there and say, you know, this, you know, this is our base, nobody can do anything about it. So the story goes that as the war progressed, and fairly early on Germany realized that they weren't going to win. So they It was decided that a lot of the stuff that they were working on that they that stuff that they were working on technology, as well as valuables, money, art, gold, things like that be shipped to this base in Antarctica in order to safeguard it, and to help fund anything that was going to happen after the end of the war. Because the thinking was, well, we may lose this war. But we could win the next one.

Chuck Shute: 35:40

They were gonna start the fourth right, I think, right.

Tim Swartz: 35:43

Yes, exactly. Exactly. And, you know, they also had communities in South America as well. Right. So well, Argentina, Patagonia, you all know, there are a number of very friendly sounds,

Chuck Shute: 36:00

the holy lands of Jesus that they had that in Antarctica, maybe what is that? That sounds like an Indiana Jones movie or something?

Tim Swartz: 36:07

Yeah, it does, doesn't it? Well. You know, it's, it's an inter, it's a fascinating story, because there was an entire branch of the Nazi Party, who were very interested in occult practices, right. They saw themselves as the, as really the rightful heirs of the planets, and that they were going to bring back these old German religious beliefs that predated Christianity and everything like that. And so they thought that if they collected all kinds of different holy objects, didn't matter what the religion was, the feeling was, is that there were items that had power, religious, spiritual, occult, whatever you wish, you'd want to call it, and that if you collected enough of them, then you would have enough occult power to help rule the world. It sounds kind of far fetched, but I mean, you know, you had Nazis who were actually practicing these ancient spiritual rituals, in order to have the gods bless them, so to speak, with, with their abilities, in order to edit sounds almost Lovecraftian that the idea was that after a while, you could use these occult practices to bring back the old gods to rule over the planet, and that the Nazis would be the, the human, what would the word be not not priestess at the right word, but you know, like the, the human contingent of these ancient gods. And, and again, one of the ways to do this was to try to gather up as many holy objects from across the planet as you could. So there were a number of archaeological expeditions, and that's what they were referred to archaeological. But they were under the auspices of the SS that went all over the planet, especially a place of say, like Tibet, and and and raided all across the Europe as well, South America, Asia, in order to bring in what were considered holy objects. And the the lamps of Jesus, sir, the lights have long, long gone, Jimmy, yes, I can't. I can't remember the Roman name for this. But supposedly this was the sphere that was used to pierce Jesus aside when he was on the cruise on the cross. Right. He wasn't dying fast enough. And this Roman guard felt sorry for him, and actually jabbed him with this spear in his side. And according to the Bible, then a blood and water came from the wound. Well, this spear then became it was considered the holy object and was was kept at various secret locations by Christian him over the years, and was seized at some point by the Nazis. I can't remember originally where they found it, but they did. And it was hell. Didn't Berlin for a number of years, supposedly, it was supposed to be then taken to the Secret Base In Antarctica. But it it didn't quite make it the the the the Allied Forces descended on Berlin to quickly to get this one out. And it actually was found by an American soldier who held on to it for a while thinking that he was going to try to take it back to the United States and sell it, you know, like a lot of American soldiers, you know, did with artwork that they discovered in the possession of the, of the Nazis. Fortunately, though, it was it was found then turned over to the authorities. And, and, you know, now that you're asked me that's like, it's it's supposedly, on display, somewhere in Europe, and I can't think of where that location is. It's, you know, if you Google it, you can find it. There is some debate, though, and whether or not it's the real one or not.

Chuck Shute: 41:07

Yeah, not on my bucket list to see, though, but back to Antarctica. So then, but the US went down there to explore to the Operation Highjump, and the animal bird and I heard that story that was in your book before, about when they flew over, they lost radio contact, and then they saw like, green grass and like a city, and all that. So what is the what are the different takes on that either? Was he was he hallucinating? Was he lying? Or was this real?

Tim Swartz: 41:37

Well, this actually ended up being like a hodgepodge of different stories that had that had come that had come out and circulated over the years, a lot of it originating from a booklet that came out sometime in the early 1960s. And this This was what was referred to as a Simons that, which means it was a booklet that was let's say, like Xeroxed over and over and over again, and then spread from person to person and then like, maybe that person would Xerox copies and then send them on to to other people. And this was allegedly Admiral Byrd's secret or last diary, which told a story of him and, and a pilot, who were making an attempt to fly over the the North Pole, the Arctic pole. All right. And during this expedition, the diary goes, they, they actually, were accosted by several disc shaped craft that had swastikas on them. And these disk statecraft actually communicated over the radio and said, you know, follow us or we'll shoot you down. And then they were taking allegedly into the polar opening the northern polar opening, there's that one up again, remember, I said that these stories circulated as far as into the 20th century? Well, this was one of them. And once they landed, they were escorted by human looking pilots who came out of these crafts to a nearby city. And were were met by representatives of this this great underground civilization, who then basically told them the same kind of information that you heard coming from the 1950, contact, ease of contact. These were people who claimed that they had been visited and we're continuing to have visits from occupants from UFOs from say, like Venus and Mars. George Adamski is a perfect example of one of the early 50s UFO contactees but Admiral Byrd was allegedly told that the the Inner Earth people were watching the surface with with horror because of our use of atomic weapons. And that if we didn't clean up our act and stop using them, then the the Inner Earth people were going to come to the surface and kick our asses basically. And then they let him go to come back and to tell the story. All right, great story and you know it it's circulated a lot and that's where the the the stories that you are hearing about The flying over the ice fields and then coming across fields of grass and meadows and mastodons. You know, roaming around these, these were the things that bird allegedly saw once they had crossed over that threshold from the surface world into the inner earth. All right. The problem is, and this is what I discovered when I was writing that book, you know, Admiral Byrd's journey beyond the poles was that at the time that he was allegedly flying over the North Pole, he was actually part of Operation Highjump, which was taking place in Antarctica, clear on the other side of the planet. All right, which Operation Highjump has its own mysteries associated with it. But I think that the reason that this booklet came out when it did with this type of story, it was an attempt to kind of distract what was going on with Operation Highjump. With again, these crazy stories. Right? disinformation. Hmm. So you know, Operation Highjump, which took place in 1947, early 1947, right after the end of World War Two. And it's odd, because at that point, the Navy was decommissioning ships, right and left, they didn't have any use for them anymore, the war was over. Why do we need all these ships? Well, then all of a sudden, it was decided, no, we're going to recommission a lot of these ships, and send a bunch of Shoulde soldiers, a bunch of ships, including a submarine, some aircraft. And Admiral Byrd as the commander in chief of this operation, to Antarctica. And there was there were various reasons give them given, none of them really very satisfied. Some of them was to, you know, look for valuable minerals for possible mining. Another was it at attempt to train personnel on how to deal with the possibility that the Soviet Union was going to attack North America by coming over the Arctic north pole, which that doesn't make sense, because it would have been just a heck of a lot cheaper, just to send people up to the Yukon or Alaska, even to train them, you know, why commission all of these ships and and and, you know, a couple of 1000 soldiers and sailors to go all the way to Antarctica to do this. And we still really don't know, the one of the main theories was that they were looking for that Nazi base that we were talking about earlier, that this was an attempt because the British, there was information that was provided by the British in 1946, where this base was, and that possibly, this was something of interest. And as well, there had been Nazi U boats that had given themselves up at the end of the war to to South America. And the captains, basically, what they were being debriefed, you know, told their interrogators that, yeah. We just came from this Base In Antarctica, we started out in south in South Africa, and carried a bunch of, you know, equipment, personnel, other valuable things to this base. And then we were told to give ourselves up live, some of them said, we were then told to blow ourselves up after we did all this, but they said, you know, we're not going to do that we're going to give ourselves up to a friendly nation, which, you know, would have been Argentina at the time. So I mean, that's, that's kind of a convoluted answer to your question. But it's a convoluted story. It's just there's so much that was involved, that I came across, you know, while doing research for this book, that it's it's a fascinating story. And again, we still don't know just exactly what Admiral Byrd in his its people were looking for. You know, the the other strange thing is that Operation Highjump was supposed to last the entire Antarctic summer but after a About six weeks, they suddenly pulled out and came back. And there were a number of reporters, especially South American reporters, that were part of this expedition. And Admiral Byrd told them that they had to leave, because he had something, he had a number of important things that he had to tell the United States Congress, and that it was his fear that the United States in the western world was going to be attacked by as he put it, missiles flying over Antarctica to attack us. And what's to me, one of the odd things was that just a few months after Operation Highjump ended and they came back is when you saw the beginning of the whole modern UFO era. So you know, he he may have been onto something.

Chuck Shute: 51:07

Well, yeah, it's interesting, because I think you said the book, or maybe I read the seltzer, but there's a lot of Antarctica that has never supposedly never been explored. So to me, it would make sense to still explore that and try to learn maybe discover new species or whatever. So either, I don't know why we would abandon that, or we are exploring there. And it's secret, or we already know something. And it's secret that I mean, there's a lot of like, could be a lot of secrets going on, right?

Tim Swartz: 51:36

Oh, yeah. Well, and you have to understand Antarctica is huge. I mean, I don't think people people realize just how big Oh, isn't it? Yeah, it is. It's, it's a continent, and it's so inhospitable. You know, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's one of the most inhospitable places on the planet. So we've only managed to explore just this small, small areas around the coast, mostly, you know, the interior of it. You know, I mean, there's, there's been expeditions that, you know, that have flown over it. I mean, that, that, that does happen, but as for actual having, you know, feet on the ground, through the rest of it, you know, it's it's virtually impossible to do so. I mean, you know, we have some really nice satellite images of some very unusual looking things. What appears to be giant caves. mountains that are,

Chuck Shute: 52:43

yeah, you could discover things that because of the temperatures in the frozen, I mean, there could be things frozen, either on the surface or deep down below that would be really fascinating to see, right?

Tim Swartz: 52:55

Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I mean, the, the, the interior of the continent has been frozen for who knows how long I mean, I'm never gonna, has tried to hazard a guess. Because it'd be somebody out there. Like, no, that's not right. It's been, but you know, probably more than more than a million years, I would say. Because it's, it's that continent has been at that location for quite a while. So you know, more than

Chuck Shute: 53:27

a million so I'm terrible with math and I'm probably gonna look through this maybe this is a dumb question. Is it possible there's like a dinosaur frozen like deep down in the in some bottom cave somewhere just totally frozen like

Tim Swartz: 53:44

that would be I do think that the IB Dino was

Chuck Shute: 53:51

they found? Didn't they find anything? The Andhra thought, Man that it was like frozen. Like it wasn't a skeleton. It was an actual like it fluid, like, remnants of the skin and hair and stuff, right?

Tim Swartz: 54:03

No, I'm pretty sure and, and I'm very, very fascinated by, you know, archaeology and you know, ancient man, I don't think that there has ever been a well, okay. You may be thinking of the guy that they found frozen in the Alps. Ozy, I think is what they've called him. And I mean, he's pretty old. I mean, he was frozen, like maybe about 5000 years ago.

Chuck Shute: 54:32

Okay. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Yeah. And

Tim Swartz: 54:35

I've been, you know, I mean, he did I mean, he was he was at a situation where somebody had shot him with an arrow while he was crossing this, this path, you know, from one temporary area to another, and he was up in the mountains and obviously, somebody was following him and shot him. And, you know, he just fell down and then was covered with ice snow. But that It's been the oldest that anybody currently has found. Now,

Chuck Shute: 55:04

what's in Antarctica, though? I mean, it could be a woolly mammoth. It could be some species that we we don't know, we've never heard of because, right, smarter there? Yeah.

Tim Swartz: 55:11

Well, I mean, we do know that in the back in prehistoric times, that there were places in Arctic that did have dinosaurs, and plant life and things like that, you know, the climate, the earth's temperature was a little bit hotter than So there, there were species that animal species that that lived there. So I mean, you know, if you had somebody, you know, somebody, if you had an animal that got off the beaten track, so to speak, and got down into a frozen Valley and then was covered died was covered up that yeah, that couldn't be possible. If, you know, with global warming going on right now. There there is the chance that we're going to start seeing a lot more things like that being uncovered. All across the planet, you know, Antarctic.

Chuck Shute: 56:19

Like, I don't know if you're familiar, like I'm in Arizona, and up in Lake Mead, I think the one that it borders Arizona and Nevada, and it's sort of a drain, and they started to find all this stuff. They were finding oil drums with dead bodies from the mob had dumped and now the lake was drying up and they found these bodies. It was crazy. Yeah, creepy. i There's definitely something going on in Antarctica, though. I just feel like people need it. Maybe not. Maybe it's just ice and snow. And that's all there is. But it's still fascinating to me. Just I would love to explore it one day, if I if I was rich enough, I'd have an expedition and you know, search every square mile. But oh,

Tim Swartz: 57:01

yeah, yeah, well, and, you know, some of these some of these early, and when I mean, early, I mean, you know, like, late 19th, and early 20th century stories that circulated, it had talked about how Antarctica was the home of an ancient civilization, and that, but, but once the planet cooled down, and everything was covered in ice and snow, it wasn't able to sustain itself. And that all of these ancient legends that we have have, that we would call say, like Atlantis and stories like that came from this civilization that used to live, you know, in what is now Antarctica. And, you know, like you said, until the time comes that we're able to either, you know, melt the snow and ice, or, you know, have the ability to to look through it, we'll never know. But it's like I said before, considering how old the planet is, and how early in the planets development that life arose, it wouldn't surprise me in the least, to find out that there have been other technology based civilizations that have existed in the past that have come and gone, and had been completely forgotten about, with the exception of these mythologies, and probably the passing down of knowledge, like mathematics, agriculture, things like that to help the next group of survivors survive. Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 58:44

well, and so I mean, getting to your next book, The Tesla book is really fascinating, too. And when I'm learning, there's a lot of things I did not know, I think a lot of people know that he kind of helped develop the electrical grid that we have now. But I didn't know he had it. He was like a receiver. And there's like theories that maybe that these, this knowledge of math and stuff is passed down to him. Like he would just get these ideas. And so where are the ideas? I mean, I guess it's similar. I interviewed a lot of musicians and they say, like, like, how do you how do you come up with that song? It's just like, it just comes to me. So but he was kind of receiver all this technology, like he would visualize it and then make it work somehow.

Tim Swartz: 59:21

Tesla was very much like that. And, you know, you read these stories about people who seem to be born with genius, and that's not quite the right word. But they are born with that ability, where this stuff just comes out of them. You were talking about musicians, you know, I was reading about Prince and his musical ability. And he was constantly you know, having to write stuff down, because it was just constantly flowed out of his head and he said, If he didn't write it down, he would lose it. But that He was, you know, just 24 hours a day, apparently, the music was just coming out of him. And it's, you know, that's, that's a fascinating ability that you see, not only with musicians, but people who are gifted with mathematics, physics, and, and certain inventors as well. And Tesla was was like that. I mean, you know, not only was he a whiz at mathematics, but he also had that ability to think of something, you know, he would get an idea. And it'd be like, I would wonder, I wonder if that would work. And if it could work, then he would just explode out of his mind. And he had the ability, where he said that, once the idea came to him, he could see it like, and he didn't describe it as a hologram, he called visions. But the description sounds like a hologram almost, where this vision would appear in front of his eyes of whatever it was that he was working on. If it was feasible, if it wasn't feasible, he would never have these visions. So he knew that he wasn't on the right track. But say, like, the AC motor, you know, Tesla was the was the guy who came up with the AC motor, and he was walking in a park with a friend, you know, talking about something completely different. And then all of a sudden, this vision just appeared, just popped in front of his eyes of an AC motor. And he said that he could turn it in any direction with his mind, he could tear it apart, put it back together, again, he could see every little component in this vision. And he said, he immediately had to go and like, with a stick, draw it out in the dust, because he was afraid he would forget about it. But that was something that persisted with him all of his life, you know, for all of his grace inventions, that, you know, he would, he would have these visions, on on how these things could be produced. So, you know, the question is with people like Tesla, and you know, and and others, including musicians, is this a component of the human mind? That is just constantly churning this stuff out? And and those of us myself not included? Who have this ability to, to bring it out? Or are they tapping into some kind of universal resource? You know, the ancients called it, you know, the, the, the task records, which supposedly was this cosmic knowledge base that permeates the universe, that, that, that, you know, it was it was part of creation, creation, couldn't have begun without information. And this information is all pervasive throughout this universe and all the multi universes, and is also contained within us, all of us, because we're all part of creation, but that some, some people have that rare ability to tap into that. So I think that people like Tesla, and I've just been recently recently reading a couple of excellent books about a gentleman by the name of T, Townson Brown, and then another guy named Farnsworth, who I don't know if that name is familiar with with you, but he was the guy who invented the electronic television. You know, our, our, our whole television system came about by this guy who was born a genius. I mean, he was he grew up poor in Utah. And he got the idea for the electronic scanning lines that were used in televisions, after he had plowed a potato field as a kid and saw these perfectly aligned furrows. And he was like, That's how an electronic television will work. And this was like night in the early 1900s. Hero, before long before television was even a thing. You know, but at that young age, he was already thinking about things like that, and then the rest of his life, show that same kind of genius, including in his later years. In the 19, early 1960s, he built a new healer fission device fusion nuclear fusion device In Fort Wayne, Indiana that he said, and some of the people around him who helped him build it didn't require, like the huge electromagnetic fields that they're trying to use now, with the fission devices trying to create, you know, like a miniature son. He claimed he said that this was this was a device that you could, I mean, it was a desktop size device and used its own power to contain itself. Hmm. So I mean, you know, Tesla Farnsworth Townson? These are perfect people for what I was talking about with this this innate germ of genius that that they were born with.

Chuck Shute: 1:05:52

Yeah, and it's some of his, Tesla's inventions came to fruition and some didn't, but then also, maybe we don't know, because it seems like from what I read in the book, and the other research I've done is it some, some of his ideas have kind of been hijacked by other people. And, you know, so the government may have taken some of his files, and we don't maybe don't have everything that he was working on, maybe they stole some of his ideas.

Tim Swartz: 1:06:18

Yeah. Tesla, in, starting in the, in 1899, he built a laboratory in Colorado Springs, Colorado, first is to test an idea that maybe he could harness lightning, to, to power things, you know, like, you know, if you could harvest lightning, you'd have almost like an infinite power source. But he found out that, you know, due to the, you know, static nature of lightning, that it's, you know, virtually impossible, at least note at that, at that time, to try to harness it. But when he was working on this, he discovered what would later become, you know, his I mean, it become his all consuming dream. And that was the wireless transmission of electricity. He had when, after Tesla had built the, the electrical generating power plants at Niagara Falls, right. They were then going to use that to, to power the cash, what was it, it was, it was the world's fair that was then taking place in in New York at the time. But the commission to build the power lines were given to the Edison company, and not Tesla's company. And that, that, you know, the Tesla and at Edison, that that was a rivalry that that went on through all of their adult life. And that always kind of stuck in Tesla's Craw, that, that the Edison was, was given the commission to, to provide the cables to send this power. So Tesla discovered that there there was a way several ways that you could generate electricity in one location, and then send it to another without cables. And he proved this theory in Colorado Springs. And then, when he moved back to New York, he actually went and petitioned a lot of benefactors, including JP Morgan, to give him seed money to build a device on Long Island to well, he was going to prove that this was going to work. However, he wasn't exactly upfront about telling these benefactors just exactly what this power plant was being built for. He told them and this this was true. He told them that this was going to be a tower used to broadcast radio, and telephone kind of like an early attempt at cell phone, receptions, wireless telephone, and then eventually television and left out the part that he was also going to generate electricity and send it to the air to people because he realized that these people who had made their money off of Tesla's original concept of the AC motor that how are you going to go and charge people with electricity that's coming to you from the atmosphere. And that's exactly what happened after he was he was more than halfway done building this tower, when it got out that that's what he was trying to do. And not only did everybody pull their funds from him, but then they started circulating the press that he was cheating them that he was crazy. And his reputation just went to hell in a handbag so to speak. Yeah. And Eric was a horrible thing. Because before this, Tesla had made all these people rich, right. And they owed him a lot. And in fact, when the his, his company was on the verge of bankruptcy after, at some point, Tesla had told them, because they were paying him a lot of money in royalties for like, every kilowatt of electricity, that is that was being generated, and they mismanaged themselves, you know, almost to the brink of destruction. Tesla told them, Look, you were nice enough to give me the original, you know, money to begin with to build the Tesla motor, and then to, you know, prove it all by building the power plant in Niagara Falls. I'm gonna waive all of that. Just be there to help me out. What I want to do further research. And everyone knows like, oh, god, yes. That didn't happen. What's this, the whole thing about the Tesla tower came out, everybody just abandoned even stabbed him in his back. So it was it was just it was just a horrible situation. He never supposedly recovered from that his neighbor's mud. But he was still being carefully watched by various corporations, government agencies, even foreign government agencies, because of not only the things that he knew, but because of the things that he was later on, experimented with, and and wrote about one of the things being what he called the death beam, which essentially was easy. Yeah, he Tesla was the guy who came up with the Particle Beam weapon in the probably as early as well, I mean, you know, the early concepts probably came about at around the same time that he was working on his the powerless, wireless transmission of electricity, because the Particle Beam weapon would use, like a charged beam of electricity, and then a substance like he conceived tungsten, that was powder to an almost microscopic level, that would then be entered into this field, and would act like billions of electrified bullets, just basically taken down aircraft and missiles, things like that, you know, he saw I mean, the early 20th century is when he came up with that. So and he actually offered it to the United States government in just before the beginning of World War Two, but apparently he was ignored. The Soviet Union took him up on it. The Soviet Union actually paid him a substantial amount of money through a company, a United States company who broke her deals with companies in the United States and the Soviet Union, because, you know, at that time, you really weren't legally allowed to deal with the communist. And apparently, they, the Soviet government was so happy with the results that a couple of years later, they actually gave him more money as, as a thanks to it. Yeah. You don't hear about that a lot. But, but yeah, and so the, the FBI especially kept close watch on Tesla, up until the final days of his life when he was living in the New Yorker Hotel. And in Manhattan. There was actually several FBI agents who were living in that building as well, whose sole purpose was just to keep an eye on Tesla. Possibly just to, you know, know what he was doing. But maybe also to protect him, because there were rumors that the Nazis were attempting to either kidnapping and take him over to Germany or steal whatever material that they could get their hands on.

Chuck Shute: 1:15:16

Yeah, on didn't they build the bell shipper tried to build that and that was kind of wasn't based on his anti gravity idea that you get this high electrical power that would lift the machine off the ground and kind of have it float. Supposedly,

Tim Swartz: 1:15:33

you know, nobody really knows exactly what the Nazi Bell was, was going to be used for. But, you know, the information that has come down to us, from that time from, from various sources, looks suspiciously like some of the experiments that Tesla had been doing, involving high powered electromagnetic fields, and then some kind of circulating fast circulating material, either mercury or maybe Bismuth. That would then either energize this field, or be a source to to, to carry this field, almost like in a geometrical torquing situation, the theory of the time being is that if you could use high powered electromagnetics, you could actually create what was called a torque that would warp space time. And if you could warp space time, then you can do all kinds of of things like, you know, like, achieve at a draw any gravity, you know, I kind of chafe at that word, you know, feel propulsion or the negating of gravity, but not only that, it would also have an influence on space time, and you would see a warping in localized time, and localized space as well. So, you know, that it could be very well, that the Nazis were using this to achieve, you know, who knows what, they may not even have known, you know, what they were doing, they may have gotten, you know, these ideas, and these various scientists who say, well, let's just put this all together and see what happens, you know, that, that's kind of my suspicion myself is that, you know, they, they had some vague ideas that maybe they could develop some kind of weapon, using this process, but not knowing what the results would be. Let's just build it and see what happens. And, you know, apparently, they're, this device produced a radiation field, and I'm using radiation because they don't really know what kind of radiation it was, that extended out at least as far as 600 feet, and that anything that came in contact with this field died, you know plantlife a number of scientists, unfortunately, the slave laborers that were being used at this facility in Poland, to, to build all this, but you know, it's it's, it's to me, it's it's a mystery on what exactly they were trying to achieve. But I'm pretty certain that they were using Tesla based technology, you know, on this device.

Chuck Shute: 1:18:45

What do you think of I don't know, if you're familiar with like, the Bob Lazar, the x area 51 employ and the machine that he described, it's sounded kind of similar. Do you think that's similar to what Tesla was describing with kind of anti gravity?

Tim Swartz: 1:19:01

Let's see is this was this a machine that was inside, like the scout ship? That was using what was an element? 115? Two? Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 1:19:14

I'm not super familiar with the details. I just remember from what I remember, when I was reading about the Tesla thing, I was like, Oh, this sounds like the thing Bob Lazar was describing on that episode of Rogen that I saw,

Tim Swartz: 1:19:26

yes, probably somewhat, at least, maybe the science would be similar, albeit, you know, probably 1000 years more sophisticated than anything that that Tesla or the Nazis or even we would be wouldn't be working on. Because I think one of the attributes of this that Lazar said, was that Eve And when this thing was turned off, that the space around, it was warped. That inside the craft, when he was working on it, that first of all, the inside of the craft was like, like the doctor who TARDIS was it was a lot bigger on the inside than it was on the outside. And that time did it flow the same way on the inside as it did on the outside. He said that he would go inside to do something and spend what, you know, like a half hour and come out and find that eight hours had passed, you know, when he was inside? And that's, you know that that's supposedly some of the attributes to this torsion effect that in theory could be achieved using these high powered specially rotating counter rotating electromagnetic fields. Yeah,

Chuck Shute: 1:21:04

so does that kind of connect to the Philadelphia Experiment? Because I find that fascinating as well. You touched about that, I think in two of the books. But suppose I mean, this is all coming out kind of like in bits and pieces. Like we don't have an official report on this. So I don't know how like this is kind of like almost rumor gossip and away the story of the Philadelphia Experiment.

Tim Swartz: 1:21:27

Oh, yeah. Yeah, well, it the Philadelphia Experiment, the story first came out in the, in the 1950s, after this guy named an astronomer, actually by the name of Morris Jessup, wrote a book called The Case for the UFO. And at some point, he started getting letters from a guy who called himself Carlos OLED day, who claimed that some of the things that Jessup had written about in his book were true. And that OLED day had actually been witness to the Philadelphia Experiment. This is the first time that that story had ever came out anywhere. And that he said that, that there had been a ship that had been wrapped in cables in an attempt, and he said at the time in an attempt to achieve and visibility, and that when power was run through it, the ship actually not only became invisible, but disappeared, and then reappeared in the, in Norfolk, Virginia, and then vanished again, and then reappeared back in the Philadelphia shipyard. Well, after it did this, the sailors who are on board were in horrible conditions, some of them had disappeared completely. Some of them were found halfway embedded in the bulkhead of the ship still alive. And others didn't appear to have any kind of problems at all, but then would suddenly just burst into flames and would be reduced to ashes. And this would happen, like, you know, days after the initial experiment.

Chuck Shute: 1:23:24

Wasn't their story to have there was a soldier. I mean, again, this is all allegedly, but there was a soldier that was in his kitchen, and he disappeared, and then he reappeared screaming, and then disappeared again, forever. And that is horrifying. I mean, it sounds far fetched. But

Tim Swartz: 1:23:42

this, this was this was a story that Because apparently, after this information started to come out, and I should add that the Navy has vehemently for years denied that has ever happened, that it was just you know, is this just made up, you know, was there anything like it ever took place? And that it, you know, it's all just just a story. But there was, I guess, a family of a soldier or not a soldier, he was a sailor, that had been reported missing in action, which, you know, during the war, there's all too common. And that one day when they were having dinner, all of a sudden he walked through the wall and looked around at everyone and of course, everyone's like, you know, and then just fell to his knees screaming, and then vanished, never to be never to be seen again. So, you know, the, the speculation is, is that he may have been one of the sailor sailors who had been volunteered to be part of the Philadelphia Experiment. I guess that apparently, some of the sailors who did survive, were shipped off to various insane asylums. They, I mean, they weren't even given the chance to say be recommissioned to some other, you know, some other place. Now, they were just shipped off never to be able to talk about it again, and if they did, who was who was going to believe them. So this, this story circulated for quite a while, and other investigators have have dug up possible evidence on on how this this could have been a reality. The the name of the ship, supposedly, that is Tao kicked around as being as being the ship was the SS Eldridge, I'm still not totally convinced that this, that this was the ship that was involved. Because there, there are some discrepancies on when the ship had been commissioned. And when it was actually in Philadelphia, and things like that, though, there's an interesting story, that after the end of the war, the ship was sold to the Greek navy. And one of the engineers who was on this ship, what it was owned by the Greek navy said that there were a lot of very suspicious and extremely large cables, that were embedded in the bulkhead of the ship, that he could never find any explanation on why they were there. And that kind of fits in with the tradition of the ship used in this experiment, that it was wrapped in tables, some of them built in to the bulkhead of ship and then others, then, you know, criss crossing back and forth, connected to huge Tesla coils, to to generate the power. Supposedly, the, initially the original experiments were to see if they could achieve electromagnetic invisibility, not visual invisibility at first, but just electromagnetic invisibility, to try to prevent the ship from attracting ocean minds, that would they they'd be attracted by the the, the metal hole, the minds were magnetic, you know, they, if you got too close, they would then attach themselves to the ship and blow up this was common use, you know, by the Nazis and the Japanese at the time. But once the experiments started, they found that the the magnetic field or electromagnetic field it was produced, always seemed to house or have the ability to deflect light. And, you know, optical had visibility, you know, that that would be a very cool thing to, you know, to have. The Navy was doing all kinds of research on various kinds of optical invisibility with their ships, they would go and put like huge spotlights, all up and down on either side of the ship. And in the daytime with these lights turned on, the ship would basically just blend right into the sky. You could you couldn't see it at all, because the lights were be almost as bright as the sun. Some of them had like, black and white zebra type patterns painted on them, you know, to see if that would work as well. So if this ship could attain not only electromagnetic but optical invisibility, hey, this is really you know, this, this was a plus. Unfortunately, it seems like that it also had very negative effects on the crew. involved, you know, whether or not the stories about people actually being embedded in the bulkhead are true or not. We've seen similar types of experiments. There was a guy in Canada by the name of John Hutchison, who was doing very similar experiments in his apartment. You know, this Yeah, we talked about eccentric geniuses earlier. You know, this was the guy who, you know, would buy all kinds of like, you know, surplus, equipment and building his own Tesla coils and stuff. And he was achieving some just absolutely fascinating results with things levitating pieces of wood becoming embedded in metal, things like that very similar to the results that you've seen, supposedly with the Philadelphia Experiment. And