The Proximity Principle: The Proven Strategy That Will Lead To A Career You Love with Ken Coleman

In this episode, you'll hear Ken Coleman share about his new book, "The Proximity Principle: The Proven Strategy That Will Lead To A Career You Love.

To download the show notes or to see a transcript, go to http://www.l3leadership.org/episode222.

About Ken Coleman:

An acclaimed interviewer and broadcaster, Ken Coleman inspires and informs audiences by drawing knowledge from some of the most well-known industry leaders, influencers, heads of state and celebrities. Host of The Ken Coleman Show and the top-rated EntreLeadership Podcast, Coleman equips, encourages and entertains listeners through thought-provoking interviews, helping them grow their businesses, pursue their passions, and move toward a fulfilled purpose.

In 2013, he released his first book, One Question: Life-Changing Answers from Today’s Leading Voices. In his book, Coleman combines engaging storytelling with a passionate delivery to share insights and observations on the traits and tactics of great leaders and influencers, motivating people to never stop asking questions. Coleman joined Ramsey Solutions in 2014 and frequently guest hosts The Dave Ramsey Show—the third-largest nationally syndicated talk radio show in America.

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Transcript

Ken Coleman: 0:00

I remind them. It took me in the eight years, eight years, Doug, to catch my national break. Eight years. That's a long time man. Yeah, I'll look at them. Of course. I can't look at them, but I mean I'm talking to them on the phone. I'll say, are you willing to do what it takes? And I just leave it. Are you willing to do what it takes if it takes you eight years, are you willing?

Doug Smith: 0:27

This is the l three leadership podcast, episode number 222

Speaker 3: 0:45

[inaudible].

Doug Smith: 0:45

What's up everyone? Welcome to another episode of the l three leadership podcast. My name is Doug Smith and I am your host. I hope you're doing well. In today's episode you'll hear my interview with Ken Coleman if you're unfamiliar with Ken. He is the host of the Ken Coleman show and the top rated entre leadership podcast and he is author of the brand new book, the proximity principle, the proven strategies that will lead you to the career that you love. And that book comes out today and I was fortunate enough to get an advanced copy of the book and I read it in just a few days. It is a must read a, it's an easy read but extremely practical. And if you will put in place the principles that can shares in the proximity principle, I'm telling you it will change your life and you'll get to hear us discuss, uh, the entire book in this interview. You're going to absolutely love it. I just appreciate Ken so much. This is his fourth time on the podcast and actually can significantly changed my life. I end episode number one 82. He actually gives me feedback on my interview skills and that was February of 2018 it's been uh, over a year, most of the year and a half since that episode. And I can tell you that Ken's feedback from me, uh, has literally changed my life and made me better. And so I'm so grateful for him and I'm so excited about this new book cause I know it's going to do for others what Ken did for me in that interview. And so, um, we're going to get into that in just a minute. But before we do just a few announcements. First I just want to say thank you so much for listening to the podcast. If you enjoy it, it would mean the world to me. If you would subscribe to the podcast and share this with another leader that you think this episode would add value to. Um, share it on social media, send an email, just help us get the word out. And one way you can help get the word out is actually by leaving a rating and review that helps us get more exposure for the podcast. And each week I want to thank someone who's done that. And so this week I want to thank lists Maxwell and she said this about the podcast. She said, this is easily one of my favorite podcasts, the thoughtful questions that Doug asks to each guest leads on the shared great life lessons in builds community. Both faith based leaders in ministry and marketplace leaders will benefit from this podcast. Let's thank you so much for listening and leaving a rating and review and I will be sending you a gift card in the mail as a thank you for that, so thank you all for listening and go leave a rating and review. I also want to thank our sponsor Alex to Landon. Alex is a full time realtor with Keller Williams realty and if you're looking to buy or sell a house in the Pittsburgh market, Alex is your guy. He's a member and a supporter of l three leadership and he would love to have an opportunity to connect with you. You can learn more about Alex and connect with him@pittsburghpropertyshowcase.com with that being said, let's dive right into the interview with Ken and I'll be back at the end with a few announcements. Okay. Thank you so much for being willing to do this interview and you just came out with a brand new book, the proximity principle. I had the opportunity to read it, absolutely loved it. I got through it in just a few days. I absolutely love the principles. I think it's going to change a lot of people's lives. Um, but something else I really enjoyed. As you, you actually share your journey and your experience in the book. And for me to see the behind the scenes of your life and how you've actually lived these principles, uh, had a huge impact on me as well. So can you just tell us, you know, what is the proximity principle and why did you write this book?

Ken Coleman: 3:47

Yeah. Or the proximity principle as I first crafted it states, in order to do what you want to do, you've got to be around people that are doing it and in places where it is happening. So very simple to the point. So you pick the industry, you pick the sector, you pick the role, and you've got to start going, okay, now who are the people that are doing that role or in that sector? Uh, and then where are the places that, that role or that function or what is that section? How do I get in that world? So, you know, it allows you to, uh, demystify. That's what the proximity principle does. It allows you to demystify the journey even though that Mount Everest is high. Um, you realize, wait a second, I can get near the mountain, I can get on the mountain and eventually I'll get up the mountain. If I just continually put myself around the right people and the right place. It's a really too simple for me of the right people plus the right places equals opportunity. So I wrote the book because I have a daily radio show is you know, Doug on Sirius Xm and its color after color is a color driven show. And I just kept listening to callers share their fear of failure there. Fear of peers and family members kinda scoffing at uh, what might seem like a, uh, not smart decision to step out and pursue the dream that, that you know, deep in your heart you're called to do. And I heard the fear, I heard the doubt that I, I, it's too late for me. Uh, my ship has sailed doubt that there is an actual path. Uh, so I heard fear and doubt and intimidation and all those things. And I, I kind of went back into my own journey. Doug, of course, I write about my journey. I want people as they read the book and they learn about the people and places to realize that I've actually done when I'm writing about it was very scary for me at 33 years of age to strike out and go after a career in broadcasting in a big dream and national dream, uh, but having no training and not many contacts that field at all. And so, uh, I wrote the book because I, I want people to grab the power of the principle. It is a simple principle, but it's really powerful. It positions us where we need to be by being around the right people in the right places. And then it propels us forward. And so I wrote it so that people go, wait a second, I can do this. I actually have what it takes. I, I can do this. I, I don't need some magical carpet to show up and, and, you know, move me on my way. I can do this. And I think that's why I wrote it. Hope and clarity are the two reasons that I wrote the book.

Doug Smith: 6:40

Yeah. You mentioned when you were 33, you Kinda, you know, went after the stream that was in your heart for a long time. And a theme that I saw over and over again in the book was this theme around ownership. And you actually think, I think you said it's about your own journey. You said at one day you decided that if I was ever going to be a broadcaster, it was up to me and me alone. Can you just talk about the importance of, of owning your dream for those listening? Cause I thought that was very powerful.

Ken Coleman: 7:04

Yeah. Yeah. That came from a moment after about an hour and a half of sitting on my back patio on a cool spring morning. And I was just really down and really having a down time because I had visualize the dream. Uh, and I had also done the hard work of discovery to make sure that I had the talent to do it, to make sure that I had the passion to do it. You got to have talent and passion together. You use what you do best talent to do what you love to do, most passionate. And so I had done that work and I had told some friends and family, I had done a few auditions for goofy stuff like commercials or, yeah, I was just trying to get in. I just knew I needed to get in and I tried to do a few things and I had been rejected and, and I had unwittingly shrunk back, you know, like a turtle back into its show. Uh, because it's not fun to get rejected. It's, it's not fun to face your fears. It's not fun to step into doubt. It's just not. And so it was in a season where I just was kind of miserable and feeling sad. Why hasn't anybody discovered me? I'm really talented. I've got what it takes. Why is this clown over here doing it? I'm better than him. You know, this kind of ugly, nasty, just really yucky stuff going on in my heart. And I'm sitting on this patio that day and you know, Doug, I don't know if you've ever been there, but at some point you, when you're wallowing in your own pity, it gets to the point where you go, I'm either going to get out of this, this, this kitty pool of pity, right? Or I'm going to drown. I mean, I got to do something. And that's when the thought hit me. Um, nobody is sitting around thinking about how they can help Ken Coleman live his dream. He literally came me just like that. I'm sitting there and I wouldn't, I didn't say it out loud, but I'm just sitting there thinking, I'm going, I've got to make some more moves. No one is going to give me the opportunity. I'm going to have to build my opportunity because I tried to get in with other people and convince them to hire me and all this kinda stuff as I'm going to have to build it myself. I'm going to have to do it because I'm the only one that cares as much as I care. And that was a real watershed moment for me. And I got out of that Kitty Pool, if you will, of pity dried myself off and said, okay, things are going to change and I'm going to replace a desperation of depression. I'm going to replace that with action. And so I did. And it really changed my entire journey. And, and that's when I begin to get in proximity, uh, very intentionally and habitually to the right people in our places. Before that, it had just been, you know, kind of hit and miss. And, and years later, I mean, Doug, like a year ago, I'm in the car driving in a to the office, getting ready for a podcast interview much like this. And that's when I, the proximity principle came to me. I had never verbalized it before. And so then I thought, well, there's something here and I begin to share it on the radio that people began to grab it. Go, okay, I get that. Okay. That is simple and I can see how it works and it begins to give people hope and hope is what propels us into action and keeps us on the path. So, uh, that was the moment for me where I realized, wait a second, um, this, it's, if it's to be, it's up to me. It's a very famous quote and a escapes me who said it. We, we, we credit the books on the order about it today, but you know, it really is true. It's, it's up to all of us to actually put ourselves in proximity.

Doug Smith: 10:42

Yeah. And so you said you started getting intentional about those you want to be in proximity with, in the book you actually talk about five people to look for as you began to climb towards your dream job. Um, they all stood out to me, but two that I want to talk about now just about your journey as mentors and producers. Yeah. And you already said no one's out there saying, I want to help Ken Coleman. Right. People always want to get mentored in our culture. They want to be around the producers. But I feel like there's a lack of knowledge that those people aren't thinking about them. Can you talk about what people can do to be intentional, to start to get in proximity with some of the right mentors, producers and other people?

Ken Coleman: 11:18

Yeah, I'll start with the mentors because they're so valuable to this journey. Um, when I say that nobody's sitting around thinking about how they want to help Ken or helping Doug or help you fill in your name. And what that means is, is that they're waking up and they've got their journey, they've got their agenda, and they will think about how to help you if you put yourself in front of them. And so I was fortunate to have three really strong mentors and they're still in my life. And I will tell you that two of them were very important in this season of starting a, that I talked about. So taking back to that patio. Um, and then in the subsequent days, weeks, months, and years ahead, there were times where I needed to call those mentors and go, hey, I got to tell you, are you, can you please tell me if I'm an idiot if I didn't really like am I lying to myself? Oh, that's a great question. And one of my mentors, Don would go, no, you're fine. You're doing everything out to do and is high pitch Texas voice. I need to say you're doing everything you need to do. Tell me some progress. What have you done? Where have you made some some gains? And he would basically give me his perspective because I didn't have my own clear perspective. You know, when you're in it, sometimes you just can't see clearly and you need mentors. People have wisdom, okay. And they've got experience and they've been there and they know you and they see what you're doing and they can ask the hard questions and they can be gut level honest with you because you trust them and you love them enough to let them be honest with you like that. And so that was huge. And so you've got to have a mentor, not just for the encouragement and the perspective, but also the, the, the wisdom. Hey, what do you think? What do you think? And to be able to bounce things off of people. And I also think accountability is the other ones. So, you know, that's what the mentor does. They are invested in you. They've agreed to invest in you. They said, I'm on speed dial, I'm there for you. You need me, I'm here for you. That's really huge, you know, to have that wise sage in your life, uh, who can provide those key things I just listed out. So the producer is a very different person. The producer in the book and in your mind needs to be somebody, a man or woman who is a very successful in the field that you want to be in and to the level that they are essentially hiring other people. So they're the movers shakers. Now in my world of broadcasting or producer is an actual producer. They're the ones hiring talent and, and you know, creating shows and, and you know, what have you. Uh, but in your world, if you want to go into a, let's say real estate, a producer would be a broker who's winning. You know, who you want to. If you could get under their umbrella because they've got a great business in real estate, you know that, that they'd be somebody who can give you great advice about your journey, make connections for you, but also potentially hire you. Okay? So that's the producer. We want to be around producers, people that are actually winning and they are leading and hiring people in your field because of those three keys. And so two examples of the people that you want to be around. And so early on, I, you know, I got around people who could potentially give me a break. I got really, really specific. So I went and met one day, I'll give you an example, uh, with a gal named Jen. She was the producer of a show called sports night is on Comcast sports southeast. So Comcast Fox, they all have these regional networks. And this was a 12 state, a regional sports network in the Atlanta area, and I had a connection. I worked at my connection, my connection got me a meeting with this gal. Okay, so this is how proximity works, right? I had a couple of guys that I knew and broadcasting that I had built a relationship with and I said, Hey, do you know anybody over Comcast sports LDS? And the guy goes, yeah, I know Jen. She's the producer. And I said, well, would you be willing to call her, email her and vouch for me and say, Hey, will you give my buddy a 15 minute meeting? He's not nuts. I just love for you to do this as a favor. Okay. So he said, sure, I'll do it. Guess what, email Jen. Jen doesn't know me from Adam. So because of my buddy who says, hey Jen, will you give my friend Ken a meeting? I get the meeting. So I go in and I pitched this idea and I pitched the idea. She says, you know, I actually like this. She says, I don't have a budget for it and I can't hire you, but I'll tell you what, if you produce a package, so do a three minute segment because that's about how long we would air it on our show sports night. Give me a couple, three minutes segments so that I can see what you would do with this and I'll give you honest feedback. Doug, I walked out of there like she gave me a, uh, you know, job because I finally had an opportunity to actually get my work, my idea in front of somebody who could in fact do something with it. And so I did it and I turned it into her. I gave her two different three minutes segments. She liked it. She goes, I'm going to air these, these are ready to go. She said, great job. Who'd you work with? I said, well, I have another buddy who is in television production, has his own little company. And he helped me do all the audio and editing. And I did the interviews and we put it together. She goes, I love it. I'm going to run it. She said, can you give me four more? It's amazing. Here's the deal. Here's the deal. When people hear this, I didn't make any money on those. She didn't pay me for those. I did all the work. I paid for it out of my own pocket to pay my buddy to shoot, edit and give it to me, and then I turned it in. She put me on air after the segments ran, I got on the air and so I didn't make any money and at some point I ran out of money on it. I couldn't keep it going, but we ran four or five and do you know what that did for me? I don't know that I could put a value on what that did for my confidence. Here's what it did folks, by putting myself in proximity to a producer, she gave me an opportunity to prove myself. I gave her something, she used it, and while I didn't make any money in the dream job didn't come in an envelope with some, you know, perfume on it in a flower and all these wonderful things with music in the background. That didn't happen. What happened was is I got clarity that I love doing this. I got clarity that I could do it and then I got confidence that I could do it again. And clarity for each confidence. Confidence breeds courage to stay on the path, so by getting in proximity, that clarity, confidence, combination is so viable to stay in with it and I love about that story

Doug Smith: 17:49

is just your teachability and your learning or attitude. You actually talk about in the book when you get around a mentor or a producer, just you have to have that mentality or they won't want to invest in the longterm and you consistently showed over and over again. I believe you said you went back to school. I love the story in the book where you went back to school, you're around all these young 20 somethings you had, you had three kids, you had a mortgage. Can you just talk about the importance of, of being teachable and having that litter attitude all throughout Europe career?

Ken Coleman: 18:16

Yeah. I'm glad you brought that up. Let me clear my throat. I'm glad you brought that up Doug, because that's one of the places and one of the people all together in one story, in the books. Now, I didn't go back to college, but I did go back to school. You're right. And so, uh, remember I'm sitting here going, okay, I've got to get intentional and I've got to get around the right people aren't places, I don't know many people in broadcasting. I don't have any skills. I don't have any experience. How do I get that? So I found, um, an advertisement for a broadcasting school is called complete game broadcast. He's still going on Jeff baton local producer, basically making his living producing political commercials for, you know, for local and state politicians, uh, for, you know, your pool company. You know, I think of all the local commercials you see, there are production companies and every city making those commercials for these people. So when you're watching television and some local thing comes on, that's produced locally. Okay. So that's what this guy did. So he was successful and he knew the trade. So he loves sports and he gets this idea probably six months prior to me seeing his head that he wants to launch a sports broadcasting school where he'll do a six eight week training course for people who want to be in sports broadcasting, whether that's on camera or behind the camera on the Mike behind the mic. So, uh, I was the first person to call him. Isn't that funny? Wow. Didn't know it at the time. I just know this guy. He seems respectable. I go to his office, it's very legit. It's like, okay, this guy's not cuckoo. He's not even had a nice connection. We nice meeting and I decided to sign on. There was only, it was only weeks later that I realized I was the first person to actually sign up for this class. I probably wouldn't have if I so, so I go into the class, into your point, there's a bunch of 20 something guys in there, I think it was eight of us in the first class and it's me, it's seven other young guys, really young. I'm 33 at the time, something like that. And you know, I, there were times where I was like, what in the world am I doing here? This isn't going to lead to anything. And yet I stood, I stayed with it and the guys were calling me serves about three weeks in before they realized that I wasn't an instructor. I thought I was, there's for crying out loud, but I learned the basics and Jeff put me on my first live broadcast. It was high school football play by play on the Internet. There were two people listening live cause Jeff wasn't even paying attention. He was probably scrolling around on a cell phone in the back of the booth and as a kid next to me doing color analyst and I was doing the play by play. But I'd prepared for it Doug, like it was the Superbowl it. And that was another experience where I, I have really enjoyed it. Didn't want the game to be over. And I had to drive an hour and a half, two game, be away from my wife and kids on a Friday night drive, an hour and a half back by myself, made no money. I'm spending money right now. I'm not making any money doing this. And it was in that place to learn. Okay. That's the broadcasting school. That's one of the five places and it was with a professor who is Jeff Patton and he's one of the five people that I talk about in the book. That's where I got the knowledge and experience that I needed early on that kept me in the game and prepared me for the next level. So you know, you, you, you have to swallow your pride, you know what I mean? Like while your pride and say, you know what? Who cares that I'm the only 33 year old dude in here. That's, here's what it came down through. Doug and I ask callers is sometimes when I, when I help them get clarity on what the path looks like, I remind them. It took me eight years, eight years, Doug, to catch my national break. Eight years. That's a long time, man. Yeah, I'll look at them. Of course. I can't look at them, but I mean I'm talking to them on the phone. I'll say, are you willing to do what it takes? And I just leave it. Are you willing to do what it takes if it takes you eight years? Are you willing? And that's a question I would ask myself many times. You know, when I, my pride would start to rear its ugly head. What do you do with a bunch of 20 year old knuckle heads? You know, what are you doing? And uh, I would say, are you willing to do what it takes? And this is what it takes. I just believe that being in this place right now with this person, this professor in a place to learn, I just believe it's going to yield results and document and tell you every time it did. Every time I put myself around the right person, it led to getting around another right person or getting in a right place. And every time I put myself in the right place, I got the right experience. I met the right people. And it's a cyclical. It just, it never stops. It has to become habitual. And when you really get the power of proximity and you practice this principle to the point that it becomes habitual, it's a game changer. Done, opportunities are going to come right up to you and go, Hey, I'm an opportunity. That's what proximity does. That's why I'm so excited about the book is people are just terrified or they're frustrated. They don't know, oh, can I can't catch a break? Well, you're not in the right place. The right people.

Doug Smith: 23:27

I want to, so I want to dive into this just as we wrap up because I have to get the story and I loved it so much. Um, but what you're talking about places and you talk about five places in the book that everyone will encounter on their climb. Uh, but you made a sale when you said every place matters. And we've been talking about that. But I did not know this. This blew me, but one of your first

Ken Coleman: 23:46

jobs was introducing clowns. Yeah. I literally, I mean, I, I laughed out loud when I read that in my, I can't believe that, you know, everyone sees you now with the Ken Coleman show or the[inaudible] solution team, but you started introducing cons. Can you just help people, not just clowns. How about the balloon artists? You know, how about, uh, the goofy mime artists? I mean, this was at a local festival called the Swanee Day town festival. And this is, so, this is really soon after I have that epiphany on the patio and I just got to the point where I said, I'm going to stop. I'm going to stop listening to my pride. I'm just going to be a whirlwind of activity. But one of my favorite cartoon characters as a kid was the Tasmanian Devil. And I don't know if anybody knows who that is, you know, but I mean, the test, the devil was this, you had seem for a moment, right? And then he would just move. And when he moved, he moved in a 360 degree whirlwind tornado kind of, um, you know, forward, progress and he just destroyed everything. His path. I had that in my mind. I was like to get active and get some gigs where I am hosting period hosting will lead to broadcasting. I just know it. So I add some friends. I lived in Suwanee, beautiful little town suburb of Atlanta, and I had some friends that had some friends, uh, on the Swanee day. And I said, hey, they, these play these, these events never have good hosts. They're just a bismal. It's just some dude who was willing to do it because no one else will do it. And so I said, I'll do it. I'm good on a Mike. Uh, I'll do it. And, uh, they said all day, and I said, I'll do it all day. And she goes, well, I'll never forget talking to the event planner. She goes, well, I kid, I got to tell you, we will kick off it at 11 o'clock on the stage. And we go until nine o'clock. You'll introduce the last band of the smithereens, by the way. So I did. It was the smithereens. It was like the one thing I did that was sort of legit, but picture this beautiful town square amphitheater in the grassy knoll. Right. And just blankets and lawn chairs everywhere and just picture all day long introducing somebody like a balloon artist and clowns, all this kind of stuff. And at any given time there's 200 300 people kind of sprayed out in the grass throughout the day. Got very big crowd that night. Okay. But up to that point, I'm just like, what am I doing here? I can't even believe it. And I'm doing Gusto. Okay. I'm like really excited. Balloon animals. You like balloon animals and nobody's listening to me. Do you understand what I'm saying? I said I have to. Is there any video evidence of this that there's no video. Okay. And if there is, I'm going to confiscate it. But you know, listen, I did it all day long and I was exhausted. I don't know, ever forget this. I'm so glad you brought this up because I kind of forgotten this on purpose, but like I've put it to it because here's why I wasn't with my wife and three kids all day. I wasn't with him. It was a long day. And I remember getting back in my house at night around nine 45 and I just sweat a lot of my news. I went into a dark hole that night. Wow. What am I doing? Like I just just lost a Saturday in my life with my wife and three kids. I just completely lost a Saturday. Yeah. What in the world am I doing? Uh, and, and, and yet, and yet that action, putting myself in that situation, it was really big for me because I, you know what I mean? I needed to swallow my pride. So the one takeaway from that particular situation is that I looked pride in the face and said, shut up. I'm just going to humble myself and I'm just going to get an active. So there, there wasn't anything positive out of that day at all other than I swallowed my pride. That's a, that's a huge deal on this journey. Yeah. Willing to do whatever it takes. Are you willing to waste a Saturday of your life? And the answer is I was.

Doug Smith: 27:40

Yeah. And thank you for doing that. Thank you for writing this book. I'm sure it's gonna change tons of lives. I know it had a great impact on my life. So thank you Ken, anything you want to leave our listeners with today as we wrap up?

Ken Coleman: 27:50

Yeah, I, I really want you to consider getting the book for, for one key reason. When you grab this concept that I call the proximity principle, when you realize that it is a living, breathing strategy that the most successful men and women in the world have used. Okay. All I've done is put this idea of a label on it, the proximity principle, right? But if you can grab this and you really begin to look everywhere for the right people in the right places and you get there and then you continue to practice this, whether you are in a a dream job or not, you still have to use this principle to keep moving and keep growing. So I want people to really consider reading it. As you said, it's an easy read, but what it's going to do is give you a new set of glasses that many of you've never put on before in your life and you're going to see the right people in the right places, everywhere you're going to see opportunity, like you've never seen it before, and ultimately you're going to seize the opportunity. So really give it, give it a read. It is timeless, it's proven and I promise you it has great power in it.

Doug Smith: 28:58

Absolutely. Well, thank you so much again and thanks for your time today,

Ken Coleman: 29:00

Doug. Always good to be with you bro. You too.

Doug Smith: 29:04

[inaudible] everyone, thank you so much for listening to my interview with Ken. I hope that you enjoyed it as much as I did and today is the day the proximity principle is out and so you can officially go buy a copy and I want to encourage you not only to buy yourself a copy but think of six to 12 other leaders that this book had benefit and buy a copy for them as well. And if you want to do even more than that, I would create a book study around the book and read a Rep, the proximity principle with those leaders and I'm telling you, you guys will all grow and develop as a result. So thank you so much Ken, for writing this book. If you want to see links to everything that we discussed and ways to connect with Ken, you can get all of that in our show notes@lthreeleadership.org forward slash episode two 22 I want to thank our sponsor, Henny jewelers there. Joel are owned by my friend and mentor, John Henne, my wife Laura, and I got her engagement and wedding rings through Henny jewelers and we just think they're an incredible organization. Not only do they have great jewelry, but they also invest in people. In fact, they give every engaged couple a book to help them prepare for marriage and we love that. And so if you're in need of a good jeweler, checkout Henny jewelers.com as a, as I mentioned earlier, again, if you enjoyed this podcast, please share it with a friend shared on social media and subscribe and leave a rating and review. That would mean the world to me, so thank you so much for that. And if you want to stay up to date with everything we're doing here at l three leadership, you can simply sign up for our email list@lthreeleadership.org and you'll start to get emails updating you with everything we're doing. As always, I like to end with a quote and I will quote Brian Houston today and I love this quote. He said, leader's goal. Don't try too hard to be a leader. Be Confident that you are a leader and live your life accordingly. That is so good. Hey, thank you all. Thank you so much for listening to the podcast. Laura and I appreciate you so much and we will talk to you next episode.

Speaker 3: 30:56

[inaudible].