“Social duty is part of shareholder value. Maximizing shareholder value is empty, yes, you have a responsibility to do that, however there’s lots of different ways to do that, you don’t have to sacrifice one for the other, you can create a ton of value by implementing loss control in other things into your insurance mission statement ” Nick Lamparelli
In this episode of Get Ready!, I spoke with Nick Lamparelli, Partner, Blogger and Podcaster with Insurance Nerds and Chief Underwriting Officer of reThought Insurance about the value of building an online community for the Insurance Industry. We also discussed how millennials are changing the insurance industry. Also covered is the impact for reThought Insurance of being a tech-centric MGA.
Connect with Nick Lamparelli:
LinkedIn: Nick Lamparelli (www.linkedin.com/in/nicklamparelli/)
Websites: Insurance Nerds (www.insnerds.com)
reThought Insurance (www.rethoughtinsurance.com)
Please subscribe to the GET READY! With Tony Steuer podcast.
“Social duty is part of shareholder value. Maximizing shareholder value is empty, yes, you have a responsibility to do that, however there’s lots of different ways to do that, you don’t have to sacrifice one for the other, you can create a ton of value by implementing loss control in other things into your insurance mission statement ” Nick Lamparelli
In this episode of Get Ready!, I spoke with Nick Lamparelli, Partner, Blogger and Podcaster with Insurance Nerds and Chief Underwriting Officer of reThought Insurance about the value of building an online community for the Insurance Industry. We also discussed how millennials are changing the insurance industry. Also covered is the impact for reThought Insurance of being a tech-centric MGA.
Connect with Nick Lamparelli:
LinkedIn: Nick Lamparelli (www.linkedin.com/in/nicklamparelli/)
Websites: Insurance Nerds (www.insnerds.com)
reThought Insurance (www.rethoughtinsurance.com)
Please subscribe to the GET READY! With Tony Steuer podcast.
Well
Speaker 2:To the get ready with Tony Stewart podcast in partnership with insurance nerds. In this episode, we'll be discussing how millennials and technology are changing the insurance industry and how it all impacts financial preparedness. I'm pleased to have with me today. Nick lamb, Pirelli. Nick. Good morning morning. Thank you for joining me a little bit about Nick. Nick is a chief underwriting officer of rethought insurance, a tech centric, uh, MGA master general agent dealing in the natural catastrophe space and partner blogger and podcaster for insurance merits. Good morning again, Nick. Yes.
Speaker 3:Um, uh, it's exciting to be on the other side of this versus being the one that's running it. So, uh, that should be fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I thought this would be interesting, you know, to hear what you have to say, because you glean so much knowledge from R B Betty that you talk to you. So let's punch in. Let's talk a little bit about what you do.
Speaker 3:Uh, what do I do I spend most of my days doing, uh, one of three things. I'm either, uh, placing insurance related business through my MGA. Uh, right now it's predominantly on the flood area. So, uh, we write a lot of commercial and high net worth residential flood. If I'm not doing that, uh, I might be making a video or a podcast for insurance nerds. Uh, and if I'm not doing that, then I'm chasing two kids around,
Speaker 2:Which is definitely a full-time job. That's right. So, you know, uh, you have two different things going on, you know, two almost full-time jobs. Uh, how do you find the balance with all these different things that you're doing?
Speaker 3:Uh, medication that helps a lot? Uh, yeah, it's, it's struggle. Uh, it's one of the reasons why I ask on my podcast, I always finish off, uh, every episode asking folks what, how they stay productive and organized because it's struggle. Um, you know, one of the worst parts about, uh, being in to start up like businesses, I wouldn't even classify them as startups anymore because there's so much older, mature, but being in two small businesses and having children is, uh, you know, my inability to control my calendar gets to be problematic. It's hard to plan days, um, because they're just a constant fires to put out and, uh, you know, that can be everything from, Hey, we have this drop everything account that to be worked on. So everything, you know, I drop everything and work on that account and then hopefully pick, pick things up, uh, later on or on the weekends. Um, you know, to one of the kids are sick and I have to drop everything for that. So, uh, I, I don't have an answer. I don't have a good answer. I I've really struggled with trying to, um, manage all of that. And, um, you know, a lot, a lot of the lessons that I've learned doing this is that I have a lot more respect for leaders of organizations. I've always wondered, you know, like, how is it that CEO doesn't have time to come meet with the employers or, or whatever. And now I understand why they don't have time. Cause they're just, you know, it it's, it's more than a full-time job trying to manage all of the responsibilities that go along with being an executive, not only of one firm, but two firms. Um, so yeah, um, weekends are full it's pretty much seven day a week job now. Um, I'm trying to pull the reins back, but it's not easy.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, I think very common in today's, uh, environment is that so many of us are juggling multiple things. It's not the old world where you just did one job or one occupation. A lot of people have their, you know, toes and multiple. Yeah. I mean,[inaudible],
Speaker 3:Uh, I mean the whole term side hustle is a thing. Now that's between, uh, the gig economy with Uber and other things. Um, Fiverr, it's so easy to have a side hustle. It's so easy to make a few bucks over in a diff different bucket, but with that comes the responsibility of staying organized, uh, to be able to execute on that. And so it's, uh, it's extremely challenging. I, I actually get a little bit of a buzz or a kick when I find something that I think will be useful. So I know that like, um, you know, tools like Calendly and, uh, what's the one I'm looking for. Uh, the one I have up now is you can book me.com or you can, you can book.me and embed that into your email so that folks, you don't have to play ping pong, trying to schedule things with folks. And, um, you know, as you know now with like podcasts, that's a, that's a very time consuming aspect of running a podcast is setting a schedule. And so I've now like, I'm, I'm so frantic trying to manage all of this. I have now I'm now trying to be committed to doing that and just putting in blocks of time and just saying, if you want to schedule a podcast with me, here you go have at it, book it rather than us going back and forth, trying to play, uh, you know, playing ping pong, but trying to figure out a time it's a time time-consuming and really stressful.
Speaker 2:Definitely. Yeah. I think that is one of the biggest stress is just in the business world in general scheduling even a phone call can be, you know, I'm sure, yeah.
Speaker 3:You open on Thursday. What, okay. What time Thursday? Not two but two 30. And it could, you know, if you, uh, I get an email, um, from Cal Newport who wrote several books and now is writing several books on, uh, you know, the digital phenomenon and how to be a digital minimalist in his email this morning was about, that was about, um, you know, just scheduling. If you think about how many emails it takes to, to schedule a phone call, usually takes two or three emails, multiply that I, several people and multiply that by several days a week. And you can see that that can easily take up hours of your time during the week. And that's probably where a lot of my very valuable time is going. And so I've now decided my time's too valuable to be playing that, you know, that sort of ping pong, um, that I have to find a technological solution to it.
Speaker 2:That's great. What was the name of that website again? So I can get it in the show notes you can
Speaker 3:And book.me so you could book me. It was just a terrific, terrific, uh, branding.
Speaker 2:Great, great. I'll have to mention that. So for all listeners, that will be in the show notes. Um, so Nikki, you know, you came from a very traditional property and casually background, uh, you know, in, to becoming an advocate for integrating technology into insurance is how did you make that transition or did that just kind of flow for you?
Speaker 3:I think it just kind of flowed Tony. Um, I did come from a more traditional background. So I've been in the agency system, the brokerage system I've done underwriting. I've been, uh, for those in your audience that may or may not be familiar. Uh, I've been on the ENS side, excess and surplus lines, which is a kind of a sandbox style of insurance where it's a less regulated type of insurance. I've, uh, spent a considerable amount of time there. And, you know, I, I think my career, I didn't, you know, I've always loved technology, but my career has always been like, I got this one problem. How do I solve this one problem? And I didn't care what I used. It just so happens that in as, um, you know, society has progressed with digital technology, digital technology became a go-to area to solve a lot of those problems. But I remember my first job in the agency world. I remember, um, having folks who would literally show up to my, uh, my bricks, brick and mortar office to pay me for some insurance premium that was due and, uh, asking someone in my office, why can't folks use a credit card? And everyone kind of like scratched their heads? Like, what do you mean that's, it was almost like blasphemous that we use a credit card. So, you know, this was in the nineties, but you know, the, uh, email, the internet was starting to take off and you could buy a book online with a credit card. Why couldn't you pay for your insurance online? And why couldn't you use a credit card? I didn't understand. That was like, you know, insurance companies are struggling with the problem of getting people to pay. Why wouldn't you make it as easy as possible for them to pay? And so for me, it wasn't that I ran to technology or to try to implement it. It was more about, Hey, we have this problem. How do we solve it? Technology in a lot of cases was a digital technology was a big part of that solution.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it definitely, well, you know, it's funny though, is some insurance companies still don't do credit card or online payments. It amazes me, it seems like the insurance industry is definitely late to the party on a lot of the technology completely.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And, and a lot of times they don't have the incentive to do it. And until that incentive, uh, comes in, uh, they'll just keep doing business as usual.
Speaker 2:Definitely. Well business for them still remain successful. So, uh, you know, let's, let's get into rethought insurance a little bit, uh, you know, w what makes rethought insurance so unique?
Speaker 3:So I think it's, I think a lot of it is just a business philosophy of just trying to solve problems. As I mentioned, uh, I, it got started well. Uh, my, my background to getting, you know, wanting to get something started was with hurricane Sandy. Um, I lived in New York at the time and, you know, the New York city and New Jersey area were devastated, uh, by that lots of flooding. And I saw how poorly the industry was, um, resolving issues around flood. And I just thought there has to be a better way. Like there, there has to be a reason why it's one, there has to be a reason why it's like this. Why is it like this? What, what is particular to flood that makes this unusual? And second, uh, are, is there any way to fix it? And the insurance industry was backwards when it comes to S for, for both of those areas. Um, they didn't know why the problem existed, and they had no interest in trying to fix it. You know, that there's a government solution. Let's just let them do that. And I was just completely dissatisfied with that. So the more Tony, the more that I dug into it, the more I realized there, there wasn't a sufficient reason why flood, uh, wasn't covered more often, you know, um, take the home that I live in here. Um, my home would be, I think every anyone that was looking at this reasonably would say, you have a very low probability of flood. And even if a flood occurred, it wouldn't be catastrophic, it'd be a nuisance. Right. And yet I couldn't find, I would have trouble finding a traditional underwriter who would underwrite it. Why? Because flooded flood is like the boogeyman of insurance. And, uh, it just, it didn't make any sense to me. This is low risk. Why wouldn't you just include this in, in my homeowners policy or in my tenants policy, it just didn't make any sense to me. And so, uh, where rethought sprouted was just kind of a convergence of, um, technology, a convergence of, I think, where the industry was heading towards with how they were dealing with hurricane. I felt like we could take a lot of the solutions. We were D we were implementing to solve, uh, wind related problems in Florida, and we could implement those for flood, um, and just getting the right co-founders together who had the same sort of mentality, Hey, let's solve this problem. Uh, there's uh, one it's, it's good for society, but it's, it's, it could be immensely lucrative to solve this problem. So, uh, why don't we do it? So that's, that's pretty much the Genesis of how it started.
Speaker 2:Well, it's great, because I think you point out something that's, you know, so deep with insurance and, you know, and, and other industries as well, is that, you know, it industries have formed around a certain concept or certain way of doing business and they don't look at why they're doing it. Yeah. Uh, you know, people don't question, you know, why something is, and you even see it across the financial services spectrum with so many different products is like, why is something done this way? This doesn't make any sense, but yet it's always, it's the way it's always been done. And people are oftentimes amazed at consumers that they're not interested, uh, in what we're doing is an industry, you know, inside the insurance industry and with a greater financial services industry. I mean, so would you agree with that, that, you know, applying this principle could help out the greater financial surfaces community,
Speaker 3:Tony T take a concept as simple as a deductible, right? Why do we have deductibles? There's a few reasons why I think even insurance professionals take for granted why we have a deductible. Um, and I think the two, the two biggest areas for, for having a deductible would be to align interest of the, of the insured and the insurer, and, uh, as a mechanism to make the insurance more, more, uh, affordable. Right? If you take that first part though, aligning the interest, if you had other technology that could align interests, there would be no need for a deductible, especially in catastrophic risks. Um, and in natural catastrophes, the deductible does not play a meaningful impact in the premium. There's not a lot of savings to be had by going from a$5,000 deductible to a$10,000 deductible. And in areas like Florida for hurricane going to a$50,000 deductible, does it really save you a lot of money because you're dealing about you're, you're talking about a peril that is catastrophic. You're good. You have the potential to lose everything. So, you know, hundreds or thousands of dollars or millions of dollars yet try to get a deductible removed, or try to have it, have some kind of a play where you change the policy language around the deductible. It would be impossible for most insurers to do that. Why? Because everything is set up in a certain way. This is the way we've always done it. They take it for granted what the deductible is and what it means. And so for us, it's like, well, um, can we use elements like that to make our policy language better, easier to read? Can we do this to make, uh, the sales process easier? You know, is this a bell and whistle? So we're trying to implement things in the industry, uh, where if these things get implemented by the policy holder, we would waive the deductible in a particular event. And so you're right. Like I see it all the time. It's, you know, one of the reasons why working with insurance companies is so difficult is that everything is set in concrete and it's just too difficult for them to pivot off of that. And, uh, it is creating this massive opportunity for new entrance to come in and do things in a slightly different way. But, um, it's not easy.
Speaker 2:No, not at all. I mean, you're talking about, you know, uh, insurance and, you know, the greater financial services industry, the typical immovable object,
Speaker 3:And I'm not in the life space as much as you are, but, uh, from what I hear, the Lifespace is even worse. Oh yeah. Yeah. And then property casualty, cause at least property casualty, there's a lot of touch points in, you know, your policies are annual or semi-annual. Uh, so there's a lot of interaction. You're much more likely to have a claim. Uh, so there's a lot more touch points when it comes to P and C. So I think they've evolved to manage to those touch points. Uh, life insurance, you may have two touch points when you buy it and when someone dies, um, and the, and there could be like decades in between. So from what I understand, life, uh, in the annuity business could be even worse. And so I, I just think there's this massive opportunity to think, what are we, what is it that we're actually trying to solve here? And, and, and how would we do this from scratch if we had to?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I, I think that's really, it is that we miss the whole point that insurance is about leveraging risk at its core that, you know, we could do things so much more in a more simple fashion. You know, I, I know this was going off topic a little bit, but, you know, are you familiar with the three policy? I think it's called that, uh, the three pager. Yeah. What do you think about that?
Speaker 3:I don't know yet. I would like to see how the, how the claims for those that, uh, for, for those in your audience that may not be aware, uh, Berkshire Hathaway has backed either back to an internal entity or an external entity that has created a three page commercial insurance policy. And, um, it seems like it's, open-ended, I think the idea is that a lot of insurance claims costs, especially on the liability side, have to deal with court cases and lawyers. And so if you pretty much just cover everything you can do away with those costs and they would be some sort of, uh, you know, counteracting, uh, leverage on the other side. Uh, I guess the proof is in the pudding. When I first read about a Tony, it seemed like it went too far, too easy. Um, but you know, is it, is it really a three-page policy or is that just sorta like the preamble to a more complex policy? Uh, I think the proof is in the pudding, I'd like to see more
Speaker 2:Well, definitely, you know, and it kind of relates to something, uh, that somebody in the life insurance industry said a long time ago is on a life insurance policies is the companies will typically charge an extra premium if somebody has a health issue and those extra premiums remain on the life of the policy. And this underwriter argued that, you know, you could just remove those after 10 years and there would be no real difference to the insurance company's bottom line after 10 years. And, you know, I think that's a huge problem in the insurance industry and the great financial services industry is that everything is made more complex. I'm a huge believer in Ockham's razor that sometimes the simplest solution is the correct solution that, you know, we're as an industry and as a broader industry is we're just making everything so complicated that people just don't want to deal with their insurance. They don't want to deal with their finances is, you know,
Speaker 3:It's worse than that though. We're making things so complicated, Tony, that it's, we can't, um, not, not, it's not just the relationship between the customer and the insurer, but just internally at these insurance companies in the stakeholders of the insurance companies, things are so complicated. It's just hard to get anything done creation of new products, dealing with regulators, like everything is like pulling, pulling teeth and, uh, you know, for a young professional coming in, that's a digital native, they see this and it's a turnoff, why would I want to work in an industry where it's, you can't get anything done? Um, and I, and I think, you know, one of the advantages of a bringing of, um, getting young professionals to come in, getting them professionals to get excited about insurance is that the older people are going to die off, frankly. I mean, unless there's a miracle cure that I'm not sure about, we, we will all have an end date and I think there's going to be a transition. Um, as we go from baby boomers to whatever generation I'm classified and to the generation after us, and now the young professionals that are, um, you know, graduating from school and coming in, uh, there's going to be, uh, they're not going to put up with it. And they're also going to bring a different social social fabric, right? They're not only they're going to want to solve problems, but the bottom line will not necessarily just be, Hey, let's get into insurance to make money. It'll be, we have an opportunity to do a social good here. And I think those are, that's going to be awesome to see. I hope I can see it in my lifetime. I know that's the modus operandi that, you know, we try to function on is I don't want it to just be a win-win between us and our policy holders. I want it to be a win-win when us, our policy holders and our relationship benefits society, uh, to me, it's like, it has to be that kind of triangular approach to it. And that's where a lot of the young professionals coming in, they're going to change that. They're not just going to put up with, um, I'm the customer, and you should treat me better. It's you have an opportunity here to do better by society. You know, you serve a valuable function, do it, you know, clean your act, clean up your own internal systems, so that, so that you can, you know, work better with regulators, work better internally and create better products. So, you know, I'll get off my soap box, but, um, I'm very adamant and passionate about that.
Speaker 2:Well, I, I think ties into opening up the conversation to insurance nerds, um, you know, is that seems to be one of the core, uh, philosophies of insurance nerds that, you know, there's a whole new wave of people coming into the industry and they feel a different way about how they interact with things. I mean, was that a big part of, you know, forming insurance nerds? Yeah,
Speaker 3:So I was not one of the founders insurance nerds was formed by Tony Kanya's and Carly Burnham. I joined later on and I joined because of that, Tony. Um, it was, I felt like my voice, my voice was always being muddied by corporate speak. You know, even when I published on professional blogs, I felt like I had to carry, uh, you know, the, the corporate speak in my backpack that I had to use in, in presenting myself, whether it was video or blog or whatever. And here was this refreshing approach that I thought even as someone who's a little bit older, you know, I thought there has to be a better way to do this, and I want my voice to be heard and I can't be alone in wanting that. And so my desire to join insurance nerds with Carla and Tony was I thought there was that opportunity. I thought we could build a community. I thought we could build a platform where people could, um, have a voice. We could talk about their careers. I just thought that's why the podcast was started on, uh, for profiles and risk. It was, I want to talk to professionals and show the world that it's not the stuffy, uh, stereotype insurance is not like that. There are pockets in it, even in a big, uh, bureaucratic mess. That is a lot of these insurance companies. Do you set down what sat down with the actuary, sat down with the re-insurance professionals, sat down with the predictive model is the catastrophe models. You, you sit down with these folks and you talk to them and what the, about what they do day to day. It's actually very interesting. You can actually see how it can benefit society. So insurance nerds was something I felt very passionate about. And I, I, you know, I felt like, um, I could bring something to the table that would be very different than when co Tony and Carly had already started and we together could, uh, leverage it. So the three of us would have the impact of 10 people. And I think that's sort of what happened.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, I just, you know, I love the concept of insurance nerds. It's, uh, you know, I think we do need to change as an industry and, you know, to some degree, that's how I was, you know, real happy to run into, uh, insurance nerds and become involved peripherally with insurance insurances because you, I learned that a while ago or discovered the same thing you did is that, you know, the insurance industry has a way of talking and it's very narrow and that it's very liberating to be able to talk is, you know, outside the industry to not think as we always have in the industry is to broaden the scope. And that's one reason why insurance has such a reputation, you know, with the Woody Allie Allen movie, you know, high anxiety Groundhog day when the life insurance agent is, you know, insurance does not have a great reputation, uh, and it's known as a very dry, uh, occupation. And, you know, as you and I both, I think you just took right on the head is it's filled with some very thoughtful, smart, uh, people who have, you know, who, who are really trying to do good things for people and really believe in what they're doing. Uh, but the industry as a whole is kind of, doesn't let people express themselves as individuals.
Speaker 3:No, not at all. Uh, it's, it's a shame. Um, you know, one of the reasons why I pushed you to have your own podcast was, you know, I've interviewed, I'd interview you a couple of times, I've read your books. Um, we've had other private conversations and we've met when had lunch personally, and you are doing something that I think is very important, right? I would like to have you, uh, voice that on our platform, because I think I want to get you to an audience that you, uh, would have potentially struggled with getting to, um, because it's on the PNC side, which is different than yours, but to me, it's, these are natural complements. What you, what you're doing on the get ready side with financial preparedness, it's a natural compliment to the type of preparedness we should have on the PNC side. So to me, it was, that's exactly why we did this. It's, it's, I've, you know, people like you, uh, who have, uh, something important to say, it's, let's bring, let's ratchet this up a few notches, let's raise our standards, um, without, without, um, muddying your voice without, you know, allowing you to be able to, uh, express what it is you need to express in your, your own unique way, which is I can tell you. Cool. So thank you. That's I mean, that, that was, that is like a big motivation for us at insurance.
Speaker 2:Definitely. Well, and that's what attracted me to insurance nerds as well. And, uh, I, you know, I started off at a multiline agency, so I think perhaps I have more of comfort level and understanding of property and casualty and, you know, but I do remember, uh, at the firm that there was a very, you know, we are part of a large, you know, brokerage operation, uh, nationwide. And it, there is a wall between the property and casualty and the life and health people. And I could never understand why we're in the same business. You know, the products are different, uh, you know, exactly what I've taught. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think we should title this podcast. It's worse than that, Tony, because not only is there a wall between the PNC and the life side, I know on the PNC side, there is a wall between the underwriting and the claims and the actuarial and the regulatory folks and the re-insurance folks. There's a wall up in a silo because, you know, in, in the industrial age, that's sort of how we wanted our firms to operate, but, uh, that doesn't work anymore, you know? And so it's it, the wall is bigger and that is specifically and precisely the reasons why we wanted to have insurance nerds, uh, yes, life I wanted to bring, I wanted to get more PNC folks exposed to life. Um, if I can get more life, folks have exposed to PNC doubly good, but I wanted to get more underwriting folks exposed to claims and more claims exposed to underwriting. And you'd be surprised at how much they think they know what the other person does. And they don't. So it's like extremely important for us to open up those channels and have those conversations. Um, I know on the PNC side, I just never understood how you could, one could insurance company could create a product around some sort of PNC offering auto homeowners, property, whatever, and basically run through an entire product development and not have claims more intimately involved in what are you seeing that's happening? You know, uh, where, where are customers complaining? Where are we denying things that we should be covering? I really, I have, I didn't have not seen that conversation except in, you know, the annual board meeting or the offsite where they have that quick conversation. And then it kind of disintegrates it, there's no carry over spill over into actual being part of the product. And so, yeah, whether it's claims and underwriting life and PC, you know, I, I am still trying to wrap my head around why we're not selling life insurance in an auto insurance policy. I have still yet to find someone that's told me that that is illegal or the regulators wouldn't improve. Wouldn't approve it, but wouldn't that be an awesome way to sell more life insurance is to embed it, part of it, something into an auto policy yet. I can't seem to get that conversation moving at all, just because of everything we just discussed on this call.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, I mean, medical expenses are included, you know, at a very minimal level. Yeah.
Speaker 3:But life like, you know, we're struggling with selling life. Why can't we, why can't we think of new ways to sell it? PNC has many more touch points, sell life with your PC, make it a year policy. Nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I bet there's a way, Oh, I completely agree. But I do know that at the agency that I worked with, and this is going back a few years, is that the PNC guys for the most part, you know, had, I don't know if they look down on the life and health, but they, they saw it as a very different industry, serving a very different market in a very different way. And that's probably putting it very nicely. So it's a shame. It is a shame, you know, so, you know, with insurance nerds doing this is, you know, how is the insurance industry reacting to what you're doing with insurance nerds?
Speaker 3:Well, I think very positively, I think we're, um, you know, it's hard to, it's hard not to go to a con, uh, conference where someone doesn't recognize me, uh, pull me aside and tell us, you know, what we're doing is fantastic. We're building a community. And I think, I think the, the serious folks, the, um, you know, the non curmudgeons, uh, in our space who have struggled with this for decades in their own unique ways, look at what we're doing and just saying, yes, finally, this is finally someone is, is, uh, allowing this to happen. Someone's allowing us to have these voices and kind of pushing the envelope, pushing the direction, um, of where we think insurance should be moving towards. So I think it's been very well received.
Speaker 2:That's great. That's great. I, you know, and I'm so glad to hear it. And again, you know, to, to get back to us working together, as I, you know, there, there shouldn't be this wall between all the different components to the insurance industry. If we really want to move forward as an industry is we need to, you know, be together and join the different components completely. Yeah. So, you know, how, how do you see the financial services industry taking this all in and digesting this and moving forward, do you think we, as an industry can, you know, innovate in that way?
Speaker 3:Right. I don't see any, like I said, I think that there has been a way we've always done business and I think we have a younger generation that's coming up that just refuses to accept that. And so, um, you know, you'll, you'll, you'll see it in very subtle ways and not so subtle ways then not so subtle ways. We'll, you'll see, you know, folks coming into these organizations pushing for radical change. You'll see it in not so subtle ways where you'll see, you know, and there'll be people listening to this that will know, um, how difficult it is to get a talent to come in. So you have to change or else no, one's going to come work for your firm. If you're going to be in that siloed stuffy, bureaucratic mess, um, with, uh, no opportunity to work from home, uh, the inability to advance in the company, you're going to be limited in the type of talent that you're going to get. And that's the not so subtle way. Both of those together will force change.
Speaker 2:Well, that's great. I think that's a chicken point, uh, you know, because we do need to be able to attract, you know, people to the industry and to the community, but also, you know, I think we have to deliver that so that consumers, you know, up their approval rating of insurance agents, you know, I know, especially on the life insurance side is yeah. Life insurance agents whack, I think they're a little bit higher than Congress in a likeability.
Speaker 3:Yeah. That's, uh, that's, that's not, uh, a pin to wear.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. It doesn't, uh, you know, excite people. I mean, I don't think you talked to a lot of kids and they say, boy, when I grow up, I want to work for the insurance industry. Uh, you know, I know when I came out of college, you know, I was not looking for a career in insurance, you know, so I'm kind of curious, did you fall into insurance as well? Or did you have a plan to get into insurance?
Speaker 3:No, I fell in, uh, I was, I had a science background, uh, sort of always fantasize that I would be some sort of a doctor medical or PhD research. Uh, I liked numbers. I like analytics. Uh, just, uh, I guess, uh, in, in hindsight it's a little serendipity that I had a friend who was in insurance, who took over his father's agency and invited me in, uh, at the time where I needed to do something like that I had, I was in graduate school. Um, and I was, um, disheartened. Um, I, I guess, I guess I was just lacked patience, but science is really difficult and not in the way that most people think the science itself is like extremely interesting, but doing science requires a lot of patients. Uh, I was running, I spent one summer running the same experiment day after day after, day after day for an entire summer. And I was like, I can't do this. Like, this just doesn't fit my personality. And so, um, I was joined this, uh, gentlemen joined his agency. Uh, he told me I would make a lot of money, but I'm still, still waiting even I can't even afford a watch. Um, so I did fall into it. There was enough there though. I, I specifically remember it was, uh, you know, fall ish. So the weather had cooled and I was reading against the gods by Peter Bernstein and there's a whole chapter on there and like un-insurance and Lloyd's of London. And I was just like, I think I can do this. Like, I think there's enough here that I might like it. And, uh, and I did turn it into a career, but I'll, I'll have to be really honest. The first 10 years in insurance, I always assumed I would leave insurance and go into finance. So I always thought that I would be, you know, uh, at a hedge fund or something like that. And it wasn't until I got into catastrophe modeling that I found my home, cause it was the proper combination of science and engineering and numbers and economics. And there's a finance component too, because it's the catastrophe models that basically work out the pricing for, uh, uh, for, you know, property insurance. And with the advent of like catastrophe bonds, finance was now an integral part of insurance. And I said, I found my home, like, I don't, I don't need to go into finance because I'm doing something that's even funner, even cooler than finance. So, uh, it, it worked out really well.
Speaker 2:That's great. Yeah. You know, that brings home with me. So, you know, and, and I see that actually as part of the mission, um, of what insurance nerds is doing, I mean, do you feel like insurance nerds is helping people find their home in the insurance industry?
Speaker 3:Yeah, completely. I think there are, it was an insurance there's was started in geared towards young professionals. So it was Tony and Carly's way of giving back to a community or creating a community where it's like, Hey, we're all in this together. Let's, let's help each other study. Let's help each other, build our careers if necessary, let's help each other do business together. And it's evolved into something much bigger than that, where I think even senior execs at companies are like, Hey, you know, we need to be worried about that too. What are the young professionals thinking about, um, as they, as they develop and build their careers? Uh, so absolutely. I think it's, um, you know, it's, it's expanded well beyond where we thought it would, but I, I think it's, I think it's it. I think we are the voice of, uh, the future of insurance, the, the young professional and, uh, it's, uh, it's an honor really well. That's great. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think you hit on something too with the executives. I think, you know, I I'm at the tail end of the baby boom, and yet I identify more with this sector and I would imagine a lot, you know, people, my age are the ones who are running insurance companies nowadays, you know, that there's an older generation that are still, uh, in executive positions, but, you know, for the most part, it's the tail end of the baby boomers that are in executive positions at the insurance companies. And I think that those of us at the tail end of the baby boom, and the next generation, which you're part of are, are seeing that and feel more naturally inclined to be part of that type of community. I agree.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I agree. I agree completely. And you know, unfortunately I think a lot of the baby boomers that are running these insurance companies, you know, they're running it the way an MBA course curriculum would tell them to run it. And, and as much as I do believe the, uh, purpose of a corporation is to maximize shareholder value, how you do that matters greatly. And I think there is value, uh, that can be, uh, created for shareholders that does good in a, in a, in a way that expands beyond what insurance is. And, and, and Tony, I explained it, I think it's as simple as this insurance should be a last resort. Insurance is a spillover insurance is, Hey, we've done everything we can to prevent the loss from happening. And when the loss did occur, we did everything we can to mitigate the size of the loss. And this is the spillover from that. Please help us that's insurance.
Speaker 2:Okay. I would completely agree
Speaker 3:And we have not fulfilled the first two parts of the framework insurance companies do very little when it comes to preventing and mitigating losses, sending an email or having a blog post, telling people to clean out their gutters is not lost control. It's not, you know, what lost control is lost control is working with homeowners in California to prevent their homes from burning down from a wildfire that's lost control. Like literally we, we will work with you to put in Ember resistant vents. We will, we will help you transition from a wood shingle roofs to asphalt or a clay tile. Uh, we will work with you to PR to clear out the landscaping, um, that's loss control insurance, most insurance companies don't do that again. A lot of it is legacy, some of it's economics, but, uh, I don't even think there's any impetus for them to offer those services. And I think it goes part and parcel with they're running, they're running the insurance company the way an MBA course would tell them to run it. I think there's a better way that we want, we would like to, we would like to be a part of that voice.
Speaker 2:Definitely. No, I completely agree. Um, that, that I think it's that how we serve and connect with the consumer and with each other it's, you know, and I think it is changing. I think, uh, you know, it was the business round table recently put out a statement that it's not the purpose of the corporation, just to enhance shareholder value that corporations have a bigger social duty, uh, than just making money.
Speaker 3:I, but I think the social duty is part of the shareholder value. Yeah. Like, I, I definitely, I think that's, it's part of it. I, um, you know, listen, who, who do you want to work? Who do you want to do business with just personally, do you want to do business with someone you can go down and have a conversation with who's pleasant who will look out for your best interests or someone who's just looking to make money off of you. It's not even a question who people want to do business with. So maximizing shareholder value is empty it's yes. You have a responsibility to do that, but there's lots of different ways to do that. That's that's been, my point is you don't have to sacrifice one for the other. Um, you can, you can create a ton of value by implementing loss control and other things into your insurance mission statement.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I just, uh, I love what you just said, uh, about implementing loss control. In fact, I'm making a note to make sure I get that in the show notes. That that's a great point. So, you know, to, uh, start wrapping this up is, um, what's your number one tip that you would give people on financial preparedness?
Speaker 3:So I knew you were going to ask this question. Uh, it would be, it would be to get the, get ready book. Uh, thank you. Uh, honestly though, like I think, uh, stay tuned to Tony Stewart and listen to what he has to say. Uh, I lived in California and in New York city, uh, I lived in New York city during Sandy, uh, and I remember the late rush to get batteries. And to, uh, I remember my wife got like thick winter gloves because she said we may need to break glass. And we're like, we were thinking through all of the stuff that could happen in a disaster where we wouldn't have electricity and we wouldn't have food. Um, and I, and that kind of Trent transitioned over when we moved to California, which was a, you know, what if the big earthquake occurred and we couldn't get to an ATM and we didn't have electricity, we have internet, what would we need? And we sort of built a plan around that. We've got a piggy bank and we stuffed it full of cash and coin. Um, we had, uh, we filled our garage with spare bottles of water, um, canned food. We did those sorts of things. And I think your book is a great primer on things that you wouldn't even necessarily consider are important, but are extremely important, you know, doc your whole chapter in documentation and having a, uh, I forget what you call it, a go pack or something where you can just grab it and go, and you need that documentation. What's my insurance policy number. You may not be able to get to the internet, you know, to get your policy number or the S or the, the, the claim number. Um, how are you going to get a phone line? Just those things are extremely important. So I would recommend, uh, I'm trying not to make the self-serving, but get the, get ready book and work and the workbook and follow Tony Stewart, because if you want to be financially prepared, I haven't met too many other sites or areas where they've done as much work on this as you have, and as broad and as, as
Speaker 2:Definitely. Well, and you know, you, you hit on exactly the reasons why, um, I wrote the book is, um, I was involved with an organization United policy holders, not sure if you're familiar with them, but they, um, advocate for policy holders, but they also work directly with FEMA on helping homeowners file insurance claims. And I saw that, you know, there's this huge disconnect, uh, between that and gaining a FEMA claim started and what people need, um, have to do that. And they're not prepared. And, you know, as an industry, this gets back to the industry, what could the industry do to help people at that point? Um, you know, they could help them beforehand, uh, by, you know, saying it, and that's almost the loss mitigation strategy. It's not quite loss mitigation, but, you know, okay, if this does happen, here's how you're going to be able to deal with it ahead of time, instead of like, okay, you need to file a claim, go to the website, figure out all the steps to file a claim. It's like, okay, what will make it easier for you? Any of it, you have to file a claim. And that's, you know, that's where I think all the new people coming in the industry, because they're looking at it differently. Millennials have a different outlook than the baby boomers and how they solve problems and how they are prepared is, um, they take it more upon themselves to be prepared, uh, rather than, than counting on others completely. Yeah. So where can people learn more about, uh, Nick and all the various things that you're involved with?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So the best way to reach me would be either on LinkedIn, uh, Nick Lamper, Ellie, um, uh, Twitter at Nick underscore Lamper Ellie. Uh, those are the two easiest ways to follow me and to get in touch with me. Um, the blog site is, uh, for insurance, there is, is ins. So we just shortened insurance ins nerds.com. Uh, th th there, you can get, uh, the blog podcasts, yours included upcoming events and webinars. Uh, and for 2020, we are, we're going to transition to a more community oriented sites. So that's where a lot of folks can kind of get together. We do have a Slack channel. You can, uh, get access to that through our site, but that'll give you that Slack channel. We'll give you a flavor of what the community is like and how we help one another.
Speaker 2:Well, that's great. And for everybody who's listening is, um, all of those links will be in the show notes. Uh, so you don't have to go back and keep, try to write that down. Yeah. Uh, um, thank you so much for joining me today. Um, it's just a real pleasure having you on and learning more about insurance nerds and, uh, rethought
Speaker 3:It's. The pleasure is all mine. It's good to have you as a friend. And, uh, I'm, uh, I'm ecstatic about your podcast and your message. So anything I can do to help spread the word
Speaker 2:Definitely well, and likewise, you know, for people, um, who are listening to me and aren't familiar with insurance nerds, I would strongly urge you, uh, to take a look at insurance nerds, you know, especially if you're in the insurance industry, but if you're in the greater financial services community or in another industry, and get an idea of how different generations can work together and approach solving issues in a different way. Um, so that's it for this issue, uh, this edition of the get ready with Tony Stewart podcast. Thank you for listening. And please remember to subscribe and until next time, thank you, Tony. Thanks, Nick.