Get Ready! with Sheryl Garrett: Making Competent, Objective Financial Advice Accessible (E12)

“Sheryl says the role of a financial advisor is one of the most important jobs but there is a segment of the industry that operates like the gunslingers of the Wild West, we don’t have the rules and regulations to protect those who we are supposed to be serving - I couldn’t have said it better myself.” President Barack Obama recognizing Sheryl during a 2015 speech”.

We have to know who are resources are and how to tap in to them, know what kind of tools and strategies that we could get into. And how to find these people. Sheryl Garrett. 

In this episode, I spoke with Sheryl Garrett, Founder of the Garrett Planning Network about being a trailblazer in the financial planning industry and building a network of fee-based financial planners. We also discussed Sheryl’s work as an advocate for the an authentic fiduciary standard and higher standards of care. Lastly, wee covered the unique challenges and opportunities for women in the financial services industry. 

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Bio: 

Sheryl Garrett is the founder of Garrett Planning Network and has been dubbed "The All-American Planner," because of her zealous mission to "help make competent, objective financial advice accessible to all people." Sheryl is Consistently recognized as one of the most influential people in financial planning. Sheryl has also been honored to work with the House Subcommittee on Financial Services regarding predatory lending regulation and has testified before Congress on financial literacy and Social Security reform. In addition, Sheryl has authored, coauthored or served as a technical editor on over a dozen books and several magazine columns. These books include Garrett’s Guide to Financial Planning, Just Give Me the Answer$ , Money Without Matrimony, Personal Finance Workbook For Dummies, A Family’s Guide to the Military For Dummies and Investing in an Uncertain Economy For Dummies.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:16

Welcome to the Tony Stewart get ready podcast in partnership with insurance nerds, I'm pleased to be joined today by Sheryl Garrett. In this episode, we'll be discussing career transitions and specific issues that women should consider about financial preparedness. Cheryl is the founder of Garrett planning network in its mid dub, the All-American planner because of resell this mission to help make competent objective financial advice accessible to all people she's been recognized six times by investment advisor magazine is one of the most influential people in financial planning for the inaugural investment news icon in innovation issue. Cheryl was one of 18 recipients of the 2016 innovator award along with being the 2019 icon financial planning magazine in 2010, honored six practitioners that have made significant contributions in the financial planning industry. And this just list goes on. Cheryl's one of the most influential people in the financial service industry, uh, on top of that, Cheryl's young, aren't we all? So, um, you know, so this list could go on for a while, but we actually wanted to get into some questions. Uh, we could just talk about Cheryl's background for 45 minutes, uh, for the good biography is next week. Uh, Cheryl, Cheryl's also been honored to work with the house subcommittee on financial services regarding predatory lending regulation in his testified before Congress on financial literacy. So security and fiduciary reform. She's a founding member of the committee for the fiduciary standard, which advocacy resulted in a shout out by president Barack Obama in 2015, which we'll get into in a little bit later because that is just very cool. Uh, in addition, Sheryl's authored coauthored and served as a technical editor on over a dozen books and several magazine columns, uh, names, uh, Cheryl's books will be in the show notes, so let's get right into it. Um, Cheryl, good morning. Good morning. So glad to be here with you, Tony. Thank you. Yeah, well, I'm just thrilled to have you on. Um, and so do you want to tell us a little bit about what you do? Oh gosh, where do we want to start? You mean my job? It's the focus on the day job? You know, if you can't have fun doing whatever you're doing, it's, it's not even worth it.

Speaker 2: 3:01

Um, I currently, and for the last few years have gotten to focus most of my entire activities on being spokesperson and visionary for the Garrett planning network, which is a nationwide network of hourly-based financial advisors, financial planners. So we've, we're holistic financial planners. Um, um, some people may have expertise in various different areas, but one of the main things that we focus on is, um, making competent objective advice accessible to all people there's always been, or at least for a good number of years here, there's been great advice available to those who had lots of money, but, or lots of money to manage, um, or a big need that we could fill with, um, um, you know, uh, an insurance product or an investment product or, or both. Um, but sometimes people need things about their, their, um, financial planning lives that may or may not involve the products. Um, and so it's kind of looking at everything from a holistic viewpoint, and then we turn to the specialists to fill those voids, um, um, for specific insurance or investments or tax, or if, you know, Hey, in my book, I outsource everything if it's complicated tax, because it's not something that I enjoy. Um, so we pride ourselves in being, um, you know, really, uh, the, the, the important part is making a great connection with the client, um, figuring out what it is to help them, um, do what it is they have shared with us that they want to accomplish. And then, um, you know, identifying what needs to be done, what, what services and products and strategies would be appropriate. And then we help them find those resources. So, um, we can't, we can't do everything for people, but we can help work as kind of, um, Oh, you know, everyone uses the term quarterback. Um, but yeah, this is, this is the sense where you may be the quarterback. Um, but you are using all your specialty teams, um, in the, in the game almost exclusively, the quarterback's not running the game, they're just facilitating the mousse, um, on behalf of the client. So, uh, we're fiduciaries. Um, we charge for our time. Um, we, um, work on a fee only basis. Um, some of our members also do assets under management, um, but they have the bench strength, um, and the skills and the desire to do so it's not all that common within our membership. Most of us provide investment advice, um, insurance advice, um, um, and, you know, traditional financial planning type of guidance, but we do have to, and like, um, and you know, this is something that you and I Tony have talked about for years of, um, getting people within the financial services industry to, um, utilize each other. You know, the, the various specialists within the industry is financial planning or the subject matter in financial services is so diverse that no one, well, okay. I can think of like three or four human beings I've ever met that truly are walking encyclopedias, but for the rest of us, um, having, um, those specialists and knowing where to turn, to get those experts in various areas and coordinate those on behalf of the client, or, or know who, who we would turn to for various goods and services is also a critical, um, point of how we work with clients. So we don't try to be everything for everybody. Um, most people who are just getting started, they might be middle income clientele. Um, they're, they need to be frugal. Um, they can't afford, or at least in my book, they shouldn't afford, um, um, unless they have extenuating circumstances like cognitive decline or, or, uh, maybe they're just busy professionals and can't justify doing this legwork themselves, but the majority of folks that I've met with and worked with over time, uh, true middle Americans, you know, these would be like the millionaires next door, maybe five to 15 years before they hit that millionaire status, or maybe they've already hit it. Heck if they live in California, they, they have hit it because of the price of their home. Um, and estate values between the insurance and the house, you know, um, the concept of millionaire is it's kinda like 60 is the new 40 millionaire, um, is just, uh, maybe like middle, middle income, um, for many of us. Um, and, uh, uh, you know, you have to be a multimillionaire, um, or something more, much more than that. So, um, definitely when I'm speaking of millionaires, um, I'm still thinking of the millionaire next door personality.

Speaker 1: 8:13

Yeah. Well, I think that's very true and I, I, I love your point about the quarterback and not being able to do everything. And to remember that each of us brings a specific set of skills and we're doing our clients a real service when we concentrate on what we do best and outsource those areas, uh, because then we can spend more time helping more people with our specific skills. So, you know,

Speaker 2: 8:40

Exactly very, very well put. Um, if you don't mind, I want to share a little story about a gentleman that I used to work with in Kansas city. I live in Eureka Springs, Arkansas now, um, since I do everything online and on the web, you know, you can be wherever you want to be. Um, and when I was working with individual clients and the Kansas city area, um, I had a gentleman and, um, that he specialized in elder care insurance and, uh, his name's Michael, he's still in the, in the business and everything. It's just, I'm, I'm no longer working with individual clients and I'm no longer in the Kansas city market, but, um, the relationship I had with my goal and, and he and I had with the clients that we mutual served, it was, was wonderful. And there are, there are many times where I might go to a regional or national firm, um, to, or direct my clients to that outlet. Um, many times I need and want, and the clients need and want a local connection. Somebody that they can sit down with and especially, you know, something along the lines like long-term care, possibly even disability insurance, um, certain, certain types, um, really need that expertise. Um, and so I, I contacted Michael about, um, a client situation where I felt long-term care would be long-term care. Insurance would be extremely appropriate. Um, so I talked to the clients about what I felt would be appropriate and that I would like them to speak with Michael to get that implemented. And they said, yes, we will speak with him. And, and I got a call, um, during or shortly. Yeah, I think it was during that meeting. And I had, I had teed the clients up for one thing and stuff changes as you well know. Um, one of the things that holistic financial planners, even though I'm not currently working with clients, I live vicariously through other holistic financial planners in our network of about 200, well, 235 advisors around the country right now, um, that did business or do business as I did. Um, and so, you know, we were all over the last several years starting to really embrace, um, this concept of outsourcing to specialize participants. I know that's kind of an odd word, but those that are specialists in our industry and not the holistic folks, um, the, that we fill that role. Um, and so Michael, um, being the elder care specialist, he helped our clients with long-term care and Medigap kind of, uh, health insurance issues, you know, looking at Medicare, which policy would be right, and which supplemental policy you might need to add to that. Um, and I found that to be something that most people would prefer to do face to face, and we wanted that local connection, and we've got people all over the country and sometimes they do live in a hinterland like I do of a town of 10, uh, 2000 people. Um, and so we do need to have these long, long distance, um, uh, connections, but, um, I'm, I'm really delighted with the bifurcation or, well, more than that, it's, you know, we were talking earlier about the siloing of insurance products, um, and that a human being, or a household, they need often something from each of those silos, but how they get it delivered to them. Um, many times is we, um, one contact actually has to set up, um, to make sure all those connections get made. So I, I'm a big fan of, um, practitioners working together for the betterment of their client. And that's really how we can fulfill our fiduciary duty, um, is by not trying to be an expert at everything, um, be an expert at what you can be, uh, what you want to be and what you're passionate out, and then find the other expert that can help build out that team. We don't have to have it all in house. And that's, what's so liberating about this. You don't have this have small firms.

Speaker 1: 13:08

Yeah. Well, and that's great advice is, um, a good portion of the insurance nerds audience are younger people in their career path. And, uh, you know, it's such a valuable lesson for them to learn is that, you know, connect with other people and, you know, learn what they do. Because again, it's all about benefiting the client and finding those people because we can't all be specialist in our areas.

Speaker 2: 13:36

Right. Yeah. And one of the things I recommend, um, to a new advisors, joining our network, new new planners, um, they may be, they may have lots of decades of experience working as a financial planner or advisor and, and just different business model, but we work with folks by, for our time. And, um, and so we do need to find, um, those providers, um, that can fill in the voids, you know, we sell, we sell advice and time, so we get a fee for that advice. Um, but our clients also need products, um, that we help identify, um, or maybe specifically say, you know, I think you need this, this and this and this. And I want you to go to this specialist to get it filled. Um, now, as I learned through my colleague, Michael, um, the eldercare specialist, he, what, now this wasn't like some kind of an, um, arrangement we set up ahead of time, but subconsciously maybe we did, um, that his exchange for me, thinking of him and him keeping me in the loop with you, the, the, like he would clip articles about things on the subject of long-term care that he thought I needed to see. So he was my personal, um, kind of keeping me in the news or not in the news, uh, aware of the news and making certain that I didn't look stupid in front of my clients that I gave good Sam solid advice, but one time, um, you know, it's really easy to get out at eight, um, you know, products change or evolve, you know, with these new hybrid policies, which I'm really getting quite excited about personally. And I know, you know, some of, some of the insurance nerds are probably going what a feeling financial planner type is excited about insurance. Yeah. It's, we've changed, you know, for the longest time. Um, I I've heard this and, and it's legit that fee only planners think that, you know, clients don't need anything else. Well, yeah, we do. Um, and I think that, that this whole notion of, but you guys don't implement anything, um, or something along those lines, that's another one, but w we here, this is where insurance professionals, um, you know, the property and casualty, the elder care, the, you know, darn near everybody, I meet doesn't have enough life insurance. Um, and then we a whole nother conversation about disability insurance. Um, none of us want to waste any client's money or time or energy, but lo and behold, I have rarely met a person that didn't have, or that had enough coverage. Um, one of the books that you had mentioned on the intro, Tony was, um, um, I can't, I can't remember where we got into it. Um, but I was doing research on property and casually coverage. I think this may have been for the personal finance workbook for dummies. Um, and it was looking at property and casualty coverage. I think we may have even touched base about this a few years ago. Um, but I kept running into situations where homeowners lost a home in California due to wildfire mudslides, something like that. And the appreciation had gone up far faster than the policy. They just bought five years before because the, you know, the price is changing so rapidly now I'm I was working in Kansas. I'm sorry, that's my own punchline. And if anybody else wants to go, go play fees, please feel free. Um, but you know, we don't see those kinds of housing swings. Um, you know, it's just a nice little increase like this, or, or S you know, slow and steady. We don't see the fluctuations that the coasts or certain pockets within the country do see within housing prices. And so someone like myself could have absolutely been caught off guard. I mean, if that was my client, um, who was woefully under, under insured to the point that they didn't even have enough coverage to cover the mortgage. I mean, this is the vere, um, failure of planning. How's that going and cool hand, Luke, we have a failure to communicate. Um, um, yeah, that would be a real failure to, um, do the right thing for the client by not being fluent or aware of stuff that happens. Um, because we're not in that GI, the geography, um, is not in our own backyard. Um, you know, if we have nationwide clients and, um, we're not addressing these one-on-one situations, so that's, that's one of the other reasons why a local or, um, a, uh, um, at least local representatives have a national presence, or at least a local presence there to give us, um, the kind of, uh, guidance and expertise, um, you know, every state's different. Um, and then all these various lines of insurance are different. Um, we, um, financial planner types, whether or not we are licensed to sell insurance, we can still, and my group are not, um, a lot of, well, all fee only financial planners, like the NAPFA organization, the national association of personal financial advisors, which is, you know, pushing 400 or excuse me, 4,000 members, um, our group, um, the X, Y planning network, um, the Alliance of comprehensive planners and many others are fee-only financial advisor networks or membership associations, and all of us, um, either don't have the legal authority, uh, but due to licensing or consulting licenses to, um, either analyze or evaluate insurance products to their fullest extent, we definitely don't have the ability to provide them, you know, sell the product and implement it. Um, and our clients need that. So it would be, um, in everyone's best interest to work together on behalf of the client. And so we need these specialists, we need you all, um, as financial advisors, it's a, it takes a village

Speaker 1: 20:29

Definitely. Well, and I think the key point that I'm hearing there is that it's looking at the products and services that the client needs rather than the products and the services that you want to sell. Uh, and I think that's been a big issue in the insurance industry, and I think that's, what's so unique about the work that Garrett planning network does in other financial advisors is because you're trying to answer that question of, okay. Instead of trying to get that square peg in a round hole, you know, what do we have bill w what are those holes in the client's coverage? You know, when we review the coverage, do they have the right, uh, coverage to rebuild, if something should happen rather than, you know, and need to sell them an auto insurance policy, maybe you don't need to sell them the auto insurance policy this year. So, you know, that's, that's so valuable. So, you know, how did you get into this? You know, cause this is not the typical way that the financial services industry thinks

Speaker 2: 21:36

I am a typical, that that would be my, one of my highest compliments actually. Um, yeah. Um, I launched my, my well backing up just a step. I got started in the industry in late, um, 89, 89, 86, 87 time period with IDs Ameriprise. Um, and, uh, it was one of the few places that, you know, you could get started in financial services if you had no background. And I had zero background. I mean, I might've had one semester of something in college that had anything to do with any of this. Um, you know, unlike many of the students graduating from certified financial planning programs and similar type educations in college, I came out of college with a, um, I enjoyed, um, learning, but I studied sciences, um, because that's what I was good at. And I wanted to have a job where I made a difference. Um, before I got out of college, I actually started working full time. I took the long road through my bachelor's program. It took six years, um, and, uh, started working full time during that period and started like, Hmm, maybe, maybe working in science lab, tech type thing, or, or any of that. I didn't have the, the, um, whatever you want to call it, energy, passion, whatever it takes to be a medical doctor. Um, there's a lot of nurses in my, my family, but I thought, you know, I have to be unique. I can't just be a nurse. Um, you know, that would be very stereotypical for my family. So I want to be something different. Um, and so actually I thought I was going to go into physical therapy or something along those lines, until I realized I'd have to have four, four semesters of calculus or something. And I changed majors in college just because of four semesters of calculus. Well, in other words, I bounced not knowing what I wanted to do. Um, but at the same time I was reading money magazine cover to cover. I was reading bottom line personal because I wanted to understand this personal finance stuff. I was, you know, mutual funds were making it big time in the mid eighties. Um, and I was studying them in the early eighties, um, right after high school. And I, I just, I love the idea of becoming financially independent, knowing a lot of these things that had not been really publicly available until the, the, the kind of personal finance tsunami that hit in the eighties and nineties of awareness and so forth. So basically I walked into what I learned later was a brand new emerging profession. We're still emerging in my book. Um, you know, 30, some years

Speaker 3: 24:41

Later, um, I, you know,

Speaker 2: 24:43

We're still emerging, but it's really cool to be part of the co-creation of this new and very, very important, um, role in people's lives. I mean, one of the things I knew that I wanted, Tony is whatever I did for a living. I needed to make a difference I needed to, when I, when I walked away from my job at the end of the day, I needed to know that, you know,

Speaker 3: 25:08

If I didn't show up, it would matter, you know,

Speaker 2: 25:12

No, I wasn't just some, I actually, you know, what I do would fall in the category of business or entrepreneurship or something like that, the concept of business in high school in college. I mean, I even still roll my lip when I say it. Now I'm a proud business owner, but if you would have talked to me about entrepreneurship, I would have gotten excited as a young person. Um, I'm still a young person, but I mean, as a high school college age person, I could have gotten really gung ho about the entrepreneurship, um, of becoming an advisor, but it was all just kind of new and, and, uh, and scary. And, um, I was afraid to death of clients for my first eight and a half years after starting at IDs. I did not want to have any face time with clients. Uh, I don't want to be the front person, um, is what I said in at least to myself. And I interviewed with a number of different companies where I could find a behind the scenes role. Um, you know, I had completed my certified financial planner designation by that time, but that was like in 1991. And the exam is so much more robust than that. I've taught, I've taught the invest sprint segment of the course. Um, and one of my colleagues has taught the intro portion for several years at Kansas state university. And, um, um, just looking at the, uh, the subsequent years of the investment segment, it got a heck of a lot more complicated. I don't think that it was that my memory just faded. I really do believe that the, um, designation that the exam is a lot meatier and a lot more robust than it was when I took it. Plus it was six parts when I took it. And now it's one part, um, which definitely makes a bigger deal. It's much more like the CF CPA exam or the CFA exam. Um, but, um, what's, uh, I got into this industry and found what fit for me. I started at IDs. I was not, um, somebody who could, um, support themselves on transactional sales. Um, I was told by my manager, my district manager and, and actually the team at idea said, Cheryl, you would be such a great trainer. You know, when you get somebody in front of you, you do so well. And I was really getting excited about the idea of, you know, moving into a training role. Um, but my production was so horrible because I couldn't make a cold call if my life depended on it. And, um, you know, I, I mean, I, I understand, um, the, some people do that and they can do it and stuff, but I couldn't. Um, and so believe it or not, I faked it. And if you don't hit the last number when you dial, you know, so we're all, you know, there's like seven of us up in this bullpen and I was 24 years old. It was like 1987. It crashes is happening and we're like, wow, that's pretty side. And I'm glad I don't have any clients yet. If I had clients with money on it, it would be a big deal, but we were all so relatively new. Um, you know, I was, I had been, um, going through training with ideas about a year at, by that time when the market went down big time and in October of 87, but we were just, you know, young and to at least to speak for myself, blissfully ignorant of what I didn't know, but I was so hungry to learn more. Um, the firm did not want us to, um, study the CFP or study anything other than sales and the products and what the company needed us to do. Um, but I needed to know more for my own comfort level, um, to be able to like talk to people. So, um, I am very, very grateful to have a start through IDs. Um, but I also recognized that it wasn't a good fit for me. They were much more limited than as well compared to now, as far as the product lineup and so forth and, and what kind of flexibility that can provide financial planning and so forth. But, um, so after that, I definitely got hooked on, on what my notion of financial planning was, but it couldn't quite find the right home. And I bounced around from, you know, kind of being, um, uh, I don't think kind of, I was girl from Friday, um, assistant to, uh, only, um, uh, we didn't call it wealth manager or family office at the time, but that's what this firm was doing, taking care of about 24 households. And I was balancing people's checkbooks and, and doing stock and analysis and everything in between. So I really got a great education working for that gentlemen, but I also started going, but what about the people who don't have a lot of money to deal with? And, um, so I went to work at a couple of other firms, um, as an employee at the next one, um, got, um, a lot more completed. The more education, got a lot more confidence. And then I joined, uh, what now we call a wealth management firm, um, as a 50 50 partner. And I stayed there for about three and a half years. And we, we had my partner had an established firm, but got named on one of these lists. It happened to be the F worth magazine, uh, list of top one, a one, a hundred advisors. The first time it came out. Um, so 1995 or somewhere about there, 19 eight 98, that timeframe 95, 94, 95, something like that. Um, and so the gal got, um, listed and she's like, I am so busy. Why don't you come help me? And so I joined her firm as a 50 50 partner and, uh, um, I, I have to acknowledge that everything that I did and I'm skipping a few positions, um, but everything I did for the first, basically 11 and a half years of my career, um, was all in pursuit of finding what actually I would enjoy. Um, I enjoyed the notion of financial planning, um, but I didn't actually made it until I got to work with regular people on an hourly basis and chart and sell my time and advice. Um, and that's when I really truly fell in love with it. Um, and I mean, I'm still smiling, you know, I, I, uh, I, I found that by charging for my time. Um, it does put the owners onus of profitability and effectiveness, you know, on the advisor, but I feel that's appropriate. And, um, as fiduciary being able to do what I felt was in my client's best interest was, was a lot easier with, um, being the boss, you know, without having somebody, Cheryl, you need to do this, this and this before the end of this week. Um, you know, the clients are the, are the bosses, um, for us. And then I have the opportunity to need to go out and find how to fulfill everything that the client needs. Um, and that's when we talk about the, the, uh, specialized participants, um, you know, namely insurance, investment manager, ongoing investment management, cause I, I no longer provide to that, uh, uh, parts of my career I did. And I actually got into the, uh, the CFA program, charter financial analyst program because I thought I wanted to be a mutual fund manager. I got over there over that after about a year and a half, but I did have that illusion for a while. And, um, luckily I recognized that I really am much more of a holistic, um, um, advisor and would like it to be that way. And I appreciate those who are much more specialized in their area and I can turn to them, like if someone came to and the, you know, I definitely had these, um, examples of clients coming to me and perhaps the situation was, um, we're, we're curious about, um, you know, maybe, you know, what a CRUT or a family limited partnership or both the appropriate, well, I, I knew enough about what those tools were, um, to be able to say, and there were a couple of situations where the client's introduced or brought it up to me, Hey, Cheryl, do you think such and such would be appropriate for me? And it's like, yeah, actually come to think of it. So it was kind of embarrassed that the client had to bring it up, but, um, you know, at the same time she was a retired professor, so I felt a little bit better there. Um, but it was like, yes. And that's a brilliant idea. Let me, let me, um, do a little, um, research and then we'll get together, you know, soon and talk about it. So I went back to my initial, um, uh, studies and I'm like, okay, well, that's, that's the basics now I need to get some more. And so I contacted one of my other, um, must, must have, um, contacts of my specialized participants. And that's an elder care attorney who actually, um, used to speak at our financial planning, um, um, uh, monthly meetings as an educator. And I call an contacted Craig and, um, you know, he provided me with the insights that I needed, um, and said, yes, that does sound like a perfect fit for that client. You know, sometimes like you'll meet the perfect situation for a defined benefit pension plan or, um, you know, this person should take a lump sum distribution from their retirement account versus the monthly pension paid check. Um, um, when should they take social security distribution? So a lot of those things are the types of questions that we deal with as financial planners. Um, and they don't have, they don't have products involved. And, um, one of the things I want to make crystal clear to the audience is I've very strongly feel that professionals should be paid for their work. Um, and, um, the, the reason I chose to be an hourly advisor is simply because I wanted to be available for those that didn't have substantial assets to manage. I didn't want to have to charge AUM. In fact, I discontinued it and no longer offered it. And I went strictly hourly. Um, clients also don't want a meter that all automatically runs, so they needed to know what to expect. And so I quoted in the actual time anticipated, but also separately recognizing the, you know, think of me as your, um, you know, your, your advocate, your financial advocate, and I'm gonna help you put together, um, uh, a plan of action to accomplish all the things that you've shared with me, um, that you're trying to do. And we're going to have to bring in some experts, um, in various areas. Um, you know, whether that be in, regarding the stock options and the taxation on those that I don't want to deal with. Cause I'm really not your expert on that. Um, or if it's, um, you know, perhaps a S a more complex estate planning issue, I've got those people, um, we need to, um, we need to fill that, uh, Erivo bill, life insurance trust with, um, a large life insurance policy. I need to get that filled. So I really, um, love being in a trusted role of helping the client pull all of these pieces together, because I'm very much like dieting or exercise you're eating right, and exercise money management. It's kind of all the same, many of us know what we should do, but we need somebody to help us make it happen. And I see that as the financial planners role, um, but then the financial planner themselves needs to turn often. Um, and oftentimes with the same client to outside professionals, to be able to completely fill the bill.

Speaker 1: 38:06

Yeah. Well, I think probably the most important thing you said there is, well, you, you said a lot from Fort thinks. I shouldn't say the most important thing, but you know, just the one word to focus on is help is, uh, that it's all about help. How can you best help people? Um, and with your career transition, and your focus is first, you were, you know, finding where you fit in so many people entering, uh, you know, professional services, I guess, whatever you want to call it today are going to go to so many different things that, you know, finding what you like and what your talents are, and, you know, how you can help people is really what it's about and you know, how you work with other professionals. Um, you know, I want to get into one more deep question with you, uh, is, you know, we've talked offline, uh, a lot about women in the financial services community. And I know that younger women I've spoken with oftentimes feel, not quite alienated is not quite the right word, but, you know, how do you feel, how, how can women, you know, make a difference? How can they, uh, you know, succeed in the financial services industry?

Speaker 2: 39:36

Um, thanks for bringing that up, Tony. Um, I don't have all the answers that's for sure. One of the things that, um, you know, that helping profession, I think definitely when women can see themselves in roles, that they feel like that, um, you know, men and women just are female, male, uh, uh, we all have, um, hopefully we all have some of those characteristic traits of both male and female, and it, you know, I hate to stereotype, but, but then she goes off and does it, um, but you know, if you think about, um, if we wanted to think of, of men at, at, at highest level and women at the highest level, when it comes to money and what money means to men in their lives and, and women, and oftentimes for men, these are no judgements at all. These are just kind of generalization statements, but it's important to think about is for men, it may be power or status for women. It may be security. Those are, are often, you know, quite different. Um, um, they might mean the same thing. You know, like if I have, if I have everything covered financially, you know, if I have a big pile of money, I feel, um, a level of prestige, I feel a level of power and my wife is feeling secure, you know, so it might get solved in the same way, but it's the emotions, um, that we need to address. And I don't care folks when you hear people arguing that, but they got the best return. You know, that's not fiduciary, doesn't say it has to be the cheapest thing or the best return or whatever it says, you have to do. What's in the best interest of the clients and if means harmony at home, and that the ability to sleep comfortably, even if it means a little less return, but a lot more comfort, then that's the right thing. And so it's a lot of art versus science and, and that's when I see women, um, can be, um, really extraordinary at this because of their probing, the nurturing skills, the types of questions, the consultative nature, that a lot of women feel quite natural, um, especially through a support situation. Um, I attended, um, or have, um, a handful of times, and it's a great conference. If anybody listening, hasn't been to this, the Institute of certified divorce, financial analysts, um, I know there's more than one, um, uh, organization, um, for, you know, divorce, specialization, um, and training. But, um, I went to their conference and looking out in the audience, just eyeballing, I'd say it was probably about 60, 65% women and men who really, um, feel quite comfortable with that consultative role. And, um, um, it was, it was great and also in financial life planning conferences. Um, and when we start looking at financial wellness and, you know, outside of how do you get, um, you know, the best investment return as fast as possible when you move outside of those subject areas, you start seeing a lot more women. Um, we were talking about, uh, uh, fellow mutual friend of ours, um, just before we got on this conversation. Her name also is Cheryl spelled the same S H E R Y L. And, uh, um, so, you know, I, it's Cheryl Brown, she's doing some great things and females and finance and Tony is, is on one of the, uh, uh, what is officially the category, um, or the, the, the team that you're helping to be on

Speaker 1: 43:43

Man, male ally network. Uh, it just, it's pretty, I like it. It's clever. Um, and just as a side, Cheryl's going to be a guest on the podcast app probably in about a month for two podcasts. So,

Speaker 2: 44:02

Uh huh. And, you know, so I think it's, I think it's fabulous when we start recognize, and there's so many of us in this industry, um, and there's so many different clients and client needs. And so, you know, trying to be everything to everybody, nobody can, nobody wants to in real life. I mean, at first, when you're supposed to, you know, go out and get as much business as possible, you think so, but really finding those, those right fit. You know, when, when I, um, being able to work with the types of people that I felt most, most comfortable with, um, it would be basically like my neighbors, my friends, the people I grew up with, um, my father was raised in, uh, with a very poor background and he met a, a woman in, in high school who had a car. I mean, she was hot stuff.

Speaker 4: 44:53

That's my parents.

Speaker 2: 44:55

And, uh, just almost 70 years later, they're there, I'm still doing great as a, as a wonderful couple. But, uh, you know, they came from very, very different financial, um, places in their worlds. And it was hard on my mother's father to, to ever feel that my dad could, could take care of her, um, as he could. And, and so it was really interesting, but these are some of the things that we're moving into. And as, uh, one of our long time, uh, female leaders in this industry once said, um, I'm not going to name names just for her own protection, but it was, uh, it was a beautiful quote. So, um, she a beautiful, in a horrible way, not, it's not met horrible, but it's true. It's like we were expressing some frustration about something at one point she said, but people die. And the point is, you know, stuff changes. We evolve. Um, the industry evolves, um, you know, folks, we have been, uh, insurance, um, the parts of insurance have been the same for hundreds of years, but there's elements of insurance that are changing like these new hybrid policies and, um, longevity insurance and things like that that are almost brand new to many of us or relatively brand new. Um, and, um, then you take another chunk of the financial planning, um, arena, maybe retirement plans or employee benefits or tax, or, um, you know, all these other areas, including investments and, and, um, you know, there's just too much for any, any one human being to be able to, to handle capably. Um, and so when it gets down to it, I think it's communication, you know, what is it that you want, what is you're trying to accomplish? How best can we do it? Um, and what I found and I'm loving, um, is sometimes, um, and some of my favorite stories to share when I've worked with clients or even just had conversations with people will after I discontinued working with individual clients, and now I'm, I'm exclusively working with advisors. Um, but I still talk to the public periodically. Um, and to find that I have some things that they can be very valuable to them. One of my favorite stories, um, as far as to try to, you know, what the heck is a financial planner versus the money manager or versus, you know, some kind of other financial advisor, um, uh, probably 10 or so years ago, I was at a, a book talk. Um, one of these books that I co-authored, or, or participated in or wrote whatever, um, came out and I was in Minneapolis area at a bookstore, um, independent bookstore in, in the back of the bookstore. They have a little gathering room and 10 or 12 of us were, were in that area. I had chatted for a few minutes about the book that had come out and I asked the audience if they had any, any questions about anything that they had heard or anything they might want to ask a financial advisor type or financial planner. And one lady shared that she was 52 years old and, um, she had a little over$50,000 to invest and she wanted to know how I thought she should invest it for retirement. Well, you know, you could jump right in and say, you know, you could set up a mutual fund or sediment account with such and such, but, you know, really that probably wasn't the point, um, or not the issue that we should focus so much on. And so I, I stepped back and I asked her this, this was, this whole thing, took like 10 minutes. I asked her, um, you know, what is it you do for a living? And tell me a little bit about your family come to find out she's, uh, she had been a single mom for a long, long time. Um, both of her daughters are in college. The first one is a brand new freshmen. The eldest one is a junior and earlier in the year, uh, or just a few months prior, she was, um, at the counselor's office enrolling the, the second one into college. And she started looking through the college, um, application or the offering materials and career path and stuff for herself at 52. Um, she was working in a part-time position making$13,000 a year and they made ends meet. These people are miraculous. I have goosebumps just thinking about what they were able to accomplish, never, you know, had support other, you know, they took care of themselves and did really well. They lived on the bus line. So, you know, and so, um, she shared the story that, you know, when she was a young woman, she, or a little girl, um, and a young woman, she wanted to be a nurse. And, um, she went to college and she was in college. Her first year met her soon to be husband. They got married, she dropped out of college. She had two children and here we are several decades later. Um, so she had one year of college under her belt. Now she's had been a single mom. Most of that time, it sounded like, and I asked her, is there any way that you could go full-time with this employer? Um, and you know what that seem like to you? And she's like, Oh, that's not an option. I'd have to have a master's degree to go full time. Um, and I said, what would you really like to do? And that's when she shared, she'd like to be an RN. And so, you know, I, uh, she said, so what are you doing? What do I do with this money? And I said, well, if I were you, you're living on$13,000 a year know gross income coming in, or household income coming in. So after tax take that money, this is not an a retirement plan. So it was set aside for her nest egg, but she didn't have a retirement account. It was just in a, in a taxable account. I said, take that money and spend that no more than you already currently are to support your lifestyle. Um, just pay the rent, you know, pay your expenses and borrow as much money as possible and, and get as many grants as possible with three of you in the same household. And in college at the same time, it cannot get any better than this with no income and three students so apply for as much grant and aid as possible. And then, okay, so you're going to be 55 years old and an RN. And all of a sudden, she just poofs up with this pride and, uh, you know, almost like, Oh my gosh, she could see it envision this. And she's like, Oh my goodness. And the other people, there were a handful of others in this chat. And they said, yeah. And signing bonuses at the hospitals are over$5,000 and the clinics, you know, a little less than that. And she's like, yes, I would love to work at a clinic, ideally, but hospital would be great. And I said, do you think you could do this for 10 years? And she goes, Oh my God, Cheryl, if I could be a nurse, what I've always wanted to dream too. I mean, I'm talking about dreams of maybe a 16 year old here or whatever, 14 year old. And she's finally able to see them fulfilled just 40 years later. So she went to school to become an RN with that nest egg. It would be really easy to say, go invest it and keep on keeping on, but that wasn't the issue. Human capital here taking that money and investing in her after graduation estimated pay. And this is from the community members in the, in the chat. They said, friends make starting salary between 45 and$55,000 a year plus amazing benefits. This woman had been making 13 with no benefits. Can you do this for 10 years? How old this until I drop, she started crying. This is what makes me love what I do. And that's, that is why love the freedom of getting able to charge for my time instead of the product that fits, because in this equation, there was no product. It was don't even invest. It invest well. Yeah, invest it, but invested in you in your education. And, you know, sometimes it's not so easy to just that's the answer. But with that situation, I think that really illuminates the difference between what a holistic financial planner or financial life planner might be thinking and what your stereotypical financial planner or investment advisor might think. Um, when I ask a similar question and so I, I love the holistic nature and, and, uh, really looking at all resources, um, and you know, like the home and I had one client, um, actually it was a prospective client. She wanted to hire me, but, you know, she was, she was already cashflow short and we talked about an income, you know, turning her home into having an income suite. Um, and I, I gave her some contacts at our County extension agency that actually helped pair, um, older people with able-bodied, uh, folks that can help out with some of the care and maintenance of the home or the home owner. And actually that was the solution that she needed at the time. So it was County resources and just thinking outside the box. Um, so that's what I think makes this extra fun, but also we have to know, um, who our resources are, how to tap in to, um, know what kind of, um, tools and strategies that we could, um, get into and how to find these people. Um, so Tony, how do we find those experts suggestions? I have a couple of what I tell planners to do, but I'd like the, uh, the insurance specialist to know.

Speaker 1: 55:36

Well, I, I think, uh, the way I've met people over the years is just to, um, connect with people and to listen, uh, that listening is the best skill we can practice. And, uh, you know, I met you, I've met so many people across the industry and I I've been fortunate, the majority of my consulting practice, which I've wound down over the last year is consulting for financial advisors. And, uh, you know, so I've been fortunate enough to be able to connect with people that way. Um, so yeah, gosh, there's so much, and there's so much more we could talk about, but I think we need to wrap up, uh, and everything.

Speaker 2: 56:19

One thing I want to, I want to stress on this is it's, it's a lot more collaborative in our, in our industry where specialists and, um, whole, uh, generalists like myself, um, and my colleagues in our network and peers. Um, I think we're a lot more open-minded to, you know, I know we have been guilty of saying, you know, uh, some people, no annuities, no whatever insurance, you know, I'm just clamming up on all of that or, you know, none of those kinds of investments or whatever. Um, um, a lot of us are recognizing that, um, we cannot accomplish what we need to do without working in tandem with the right kind of experts. And, um, so, um, you know, we're all learning and we are changing and growing and outsourcing more and more. And so I think that's, that's the big takeaway I'd like people to hear on this is that, um, we're all in the same industry. Um, and we want the same outcome is a great experience for the client, um, and to fill those needs, um, provide for what people need. And so simply an invitation that, yeah, um, some of us who had been, um, um, probably mistake and, or not re not mistaken, but rightfully accused of being closed minded, we're not so much that way anymore. And we are very much open, um, or need to be. Um, so just keep at it. Um, we need to be, um, educated as you specialists can help us to become, and we can, um, oftentimes we are in contact with a lot of the, um, um, you know, clients and, and, uh, um, people from the community that we might be able to serve. And so, you know, without us connecting, um, you know, we're really missing out and, and, you know, Tony did, you did a great job in reaching out to me through LinkedIn. Um, and it's been years that we first, uh, connected, but I would encourage all that are listening to this message is, um, you know, you have important, um, um, skills and, um, um, subject matter expertise that others need and want. Um, and we're much more open-minded than we ever have in the past. So please give us a second or 18th chance. Um,

Speaker 1: 59:05

But I love that because it is all about helping people and it's all that, that each of us brings a unique outlook and skills and perspective to the table. So, Cheryl, I mean, the last and most important question is where can people learn more about you're up to, and

Speaker 2: 59:22

To stay in touch with you? Oh, sure. Um, well, I'm, I, I am on Facebook and LinkedIn, um, and the Garrett planning network, um, it's G a R R E T T, uh, Garrett planning, network.com and, uh, we're in process of updating the front part of our website. So it'll look different if you check in today and you check in a few months from now, but, um, regardless, come and meet us, reach out and connect with us. Um, we're always looking for, uh, for, um, you know, the right kind of people and the right connections and the right companies and the right solutions. I mean, I can't believe, but, you know, I own a couple of products that I said I would, you know, never think that I would even consider for a client. I own them myself. Um, and so it was a combination between raising my understanding and education on the subject. And also some of these tools have improved, you know, there's no, I don't think any of us would deny that. Um, and, um, uh, next for my bucket list is, uh, you know, as far as financial planning, a longevity annuity, um, the, the women and the women in my family live a long time. And, uh, so, you know, longevity, annuities, um, I think, uh, and I'm also really, really high on, um, um, hybrid policies, um, that have a long-term care and life insurance or annuity benefit depending on the, what the client needs. But as I mentioned earlier, everybody I've met needs life insurance. Um, so having a hybrid policy that could work as life insurance and, or long-term care might really fit, um, certain cases, but also a longevity annuity. Um, you know, there's a lot of these products that for some advisors would be brand new, um, for others, you know, I'm speaking to the choir and I'm out of I'm out of date, but, um, I'm, I'm telling you what a lot of my peers know and feel about things. So, um, your role is, and then bringing up property and casually, that's a whole nother thing. Um, we need, let me know when you're doing, um, um, more education and podcasts on property and casualty insurance all bring the whole team because, um, you know, we, we need, we, we, we could use more, um, insurance, nerd education, um, uh, in those areas as well. Um, but I think it's, yeah, we're nerds, so whatever, but we're getting some really, really cool tools and strategies out there. Um, but sometimes the planes and Ella stuff is exactly what we need. Um, but even if you got plain vanilla, um, uh, I assure you that financial advisor probably needs that, um, that connection and that education that you can provide. So, um, you know, we, we all can help fulfill the client's needs by working together.

Speaker 1: 1:02:41

Oh yeah. Well, definitely. Well, thank you so much. And I know the insurance nerds community would welcome you as a part of it with your invaluable insight. And I'd like to thank you so much for joining me today. Cheryl, it's been a pleasure as always my

Speaker 2: 1:02:57

Pleasure, Tony, thank you

Speaker 1: 1:02:59

Again. Yeah. So thanks everybody. And, uh, please remember to subscribe to the, get ready with Tony Stewart podcast. Have a great day until next time.

Speaker 5: 1:03:15

Yeah.