I spoke to Jill Hendershot Roth on Mar 15, 2023. We had an interesting conversation including the "Zone of Genius" that idea that comes from Emily Utter. We spoke about allowance, intuition, shame, healing and more. We went many places on how horses can inspire a better life as it was the horses you inspired us both about allowance.
Bio
Jill has been a student of the horse for over 25 years. Throughout this time, she has found herself repelled by the structure of dominance and hierarchy embedded in various horse “training” methods. She knew in her bones that there had to be a path with horses (and with life) that was founded in communication and cooperation. Jill teaches just such an approach through the FUNdamentals of Horsemanship and Equestrian Tai Chi. She also delights in the wisdom that horses offer to us; and teaches one-on-one lessons and online courses that share both. You can
find out more at Bridlesandbreath.com and Youtube.com/@bridlesandbreath
Another NOTE :
We were talking about "Zone of Genius" that idea comes from Emily Utter and I didn't mention her by name during the interview if you want to tag that on in any way.
I spoke to Jill Hendershot Roth on Mar 15, 2023. We had an interesting conversation including the "Zone of Genius" that idea that comes from Emily Utter. We spoke about allowance, intuition, shame, healing and more. We went many places on how horses can inspire a better life as it was the horses you inspired us both about allowance.
Bio
Jill has been a student of the horse for over 25 years. Throughout this time, she has found herself repelled by the structure of dominance and hierarchy embedded in various horse “training” methods. She knew in her bones that there had to be a path with horses (and with life) that was founded in communication and cooperation. Jill teaches just such an approach through the FUNdamentals of Horsemanship and Equestrian Tai Chi. She also delights in the wisdom that horses offer to us; and teaches one-on-one lessons and online courses that share both. You can
find out more at Bridlesandbreath.com and Youtube.com/@bridlesandbreath
Another NOTE :
We were talking about "Zone of Genius" that idea comes from Emily Utter and I didn't mention her by name during the interview if you want to tag that on in any way.
Welcome to Sears Beers, knowers and Doers, a podcast about intuition. Do you know what that is? Intuition to me is that inner sense for knowing that something is true. And yet I have no proof. But there's so many definitions and there's so many ways it can come. I'm looking to bring together and share with you some amazing guests. You have some amazing life stories, and also some insights into how intuition can come, and I'm looking to gather those crows in the trees. I hope you're one of them. I hope that this podcast inspires you to be more connected to your intuition, and I hope that by doing that, we make the world a better place. Thanks for coming on this journey with me.
Speaker 2:Before we get started today, I would love to share some tools with you to help with stress and feeling overwhelmed, especially for the energetically sensitive person. Feel free to go to my store on my website@www.healingvitality.ca. Thanks so much for coming on this journey with me.
Speaker 3:So I'm super excited today cuz I'm reconnecting with my podcast guests, Jill Hendershot Roth again. And this was spurred on by just a reconnection outta nowhere. And we both realized that we were having the same insights from horses and it's like, oh my gosh, how can that be? We're talking or being with different horses on opposite ends of the continent. And here we are having this same realization. So I was like, we gotta do a podcast. Come to a podcast. So thank you so much for joining me again, Jill.
Speaker 4:So excited to be here. I've been meeting all week to see how this all comes together.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's, it's neat cuz I love to be able to just get out of the way and mm-hmm.<affirmative> I'll fill in people what we were discovering, but it was, word allowance was coming in for both of us, and then we each had these different epiphanies along with that. But it's, it's just this ability to witness horses do that and realize that, you know, what does the world need more of is, is a little bit more, being a little bit more allowance and, and all the things that get in the way of us doing that<laugh>, it's like, why do humans have such a hard time doing these things? Um, indeed. Right. And you went and took it another step further. So do you wanna, we taught it a little bit before the podcast started, so do you wanna share a little bit where you took it?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so for me, my horses have labored over this with me. I must be a very slow student<laugh>, but they've really worked on just, you know, can you be in this full allowance now? Can you take what's happening and be okay with it? For example, one of my horses has pretty chronic lam this and we've been working on it for, for a long, long time. And I was just devastated about this, you know, tears and this and that. And one night, you know, it was the middle of the night we're sitting under the stars and I'm talking to her and I'm like, you know, I'm just so sorry this is happening and blah, blah blah. And I'm like, you know, so what do you think? And she comes back with, well, I'm just thrilled. We're here together. And I was just like, blown away cuz I know that came from her because I never would've came up with that on my own. Right. That she would be willing to go through this lameness and these, these challenges together. But she was just excited that we were living another life together. I was just taken aback.
Speaker 3:Hmm. And I had something put on my radar screen that horses are choosing the existences that they're existing in, even if it's not, not in alignment with how we would want them to be.
Speaker 4:Mm-hmm.<affirmative>.
Speaker 3:And I was like, so codependent, like, animals are my last frontier.<laugh>. It's like mm-hmm.<affirmative>, no, it has to be better. Like, let me control that, please. Like, right. No, it has to be better. And when somebody said like, actually another podcast guest put this on my radar screen, Irena put this on my radar screen and it hit me with such a, like, it was almost a freedom. It was also like, holy smokes, why? Like, you know, that happens for people. Why wouldn't you, why wouldn't you know that for animals? Like, what, what twisted you so much mm-hmm.<affirmative> to think that it doesn't happen for animals. And it was the fact that they hold so much innocent. How how on earth could this innocent being that such a huge teacher, like choose that, you know, like Right. How are they choosing that? And yet it's because they choose that, that they're trying to wake us all up and it's like, oh my gosh. Like the gift.
Speaker 4:Well, and we come from that judgment, right? Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, we come from the place of clearly this is bad. Right? Right. So in our mind, there's no way this can be good. And, and I had a really interesting aha from this very thing. My, my hoof instructor was talking about how when you trip trim a hoof, you wanted to be able to trim it in a way that the horse can move in any direction freely, no matter what they choose. The hoof would be fluid. And so I was pondering that with Willow with one of my horses and I'm like, oh my gosh, that's the true definition of being in the present moment. Mm-hmm. That from that moment you could move in any direction equally versus the path I had chosen, which was she would only be able to be healed. Right. That's the only possible path we could be getting to is like, yes, we're here right now, but we're all on this path to a future healing versus no, we're in this moment right now and anything can happen. And when you have that, anything can happen. There's no stagnation, there's no blockage. Right. Right. You open in, in that freedom. So, so powerful.
Speaker 3:Wow. Wow. Goosebumps Joe. Oh my gosh.<laugh><laugh>. Cause I haven't thought of present moment being the center of a circle before. And that, that was the image that came in my head was, was being in the center of the circle where all those, all those opportunities and what else is possibles and whatever verbiage you wanna put on that are all possible and how much we do as eternal optimists or like pollyannas or like, it's gotta be better than this are limiting ourselves to the path of least resistance or, or healing or whatever. Like the positive outcome when actually, if you think about it, all of the, the things that are hard or negative or whatever is where all the frigging learning and growth and Mm. All the stuff that we wanna, all that stuff<laugh> that in hindsight we're like, oh yeah, that was fantastic. I'm so glad that happened to me. Um,
Speaker 4:But it's just so uncomfortable, right? Yeah. So when you're in the middle of it, it's so difficult to be like, ah, I'm sure this is for my highest good<laugh>.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Really. And the, and, and that this too shall pass thing is like the furthest from our brain when we're not in the present moment. Like
Speaker 4:Exactly. Exactly.
Speaker 3:And yet in the present moment, it, if we just deal with it, if we would just be in it, and this is, this comes back to the allowance part.
Speaker 4:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:<affirmative>, if we just be in the uncomfortableness, it, it doesn't last as long.
Speaker 4:<laugh>. Oh my gosh. Right? Yeah. If you, if you don't put that energetic block in there and you know, and I look at myself cuz you can, and, and you know, you know Right. It's like, okay, this is not helping and you still find yourself being like, yeah, but if I, I promise to be in full allowance on Tuesday. Yeah. If we can fix this one thing,<laugh>, I
Speaker 3:Know<laugh>, can I burg you with you on this allowance thing? You know,<laugh> like, and how often do we even do that with our intuition? It's like, I'm only willing to receive this sort of inco intuition, not the other stuff. Right? Mm-hmm. Yes.
Speaker 4:Mm-hmm. Yes indeed. Mm-hmm. Indeed.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah. And then you, and then you question, you know, well that message was probably wrong. I probably didn't get that correctly.
Speaker 3:And so it's kind of, where does that piece come from? That is, well, and I mean a whole bunch of different names for where it comes from and what it is. But when you think about animals and horses being kind of, to quote Eckard holy and, and Patrick McDonald who did the muts book, guardians of Being that book was like, oh my gosh, this is it. Cuz they really are the teachers of like, they're the zen masters. I mean, you're, you do the Tai Chi, you're black belt for pizza, like four Thai<laugh>, you know, these things wax on, wax off. Um, to have this constant inspiration to be more still, but take action when we're supposed to take action, be an allowance. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> be an acceptance.
Speaker 4:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:<affirmative> of everything. I mean, you brought up that before the call you reminded me as like, oh yeah. There were several little epiphanies we had that were the same. Yeah. So, so you're coming at this from not only the horses, but from the martial arts perspective.
Speaker 4:Well, you know, you'd hope that would help me more, but I feel like I just stumble all the time. Right. And I think, uh, the hard part from me is, you know, you do know. Right. You know, you're supposed to be still, you know, that that great brings you great peace in that when you can have stillness, whether you're doing a martial art form or you're just out in nature or you're riding your horse, when you have that stillness, it's a golden gift. Right. But what happens for me is I'll have, you know, a judgment of any kind. And so once that happens, it either brings in fear or shame or guilt or one of those emotions. And then for me, my mind just circles and circles and circles and circles. And then I'm no longer in peace and I can no longer hear my horses and I can no longer hear whatever you consider to be your higher self divinity, whatever label works for you. And it just shuts it down. But it's so difficult not to do.
Speaker 3:Right. Well, yeah.<laugh>, there it is the word judgment. Right. The word judgment. And that's such a, like, it's, it's pretty much a learned behavior.
Speaker 4:Yes. Which is sad, right. Because we're actually doing this to ourselves
Speaker 3:That're the worst. We're doing this to ourselves. And we talked about this, you know, the brother who took my hand and my beautiful brother, I love him to death. But<laugh>, you know, like those rights of passages when you're like getting slapped by your own hand cuz your brother's moving your arm and he saying,<laugh>, why are you doing this to yourself? Uh, you know, it like Yeah. And so having those frames of reference that it is just to recog like that awareness piece of slowing down enough to recognize when you're actually in this silly little loop. But, you know, some of them are so insidious because they come from this place of looking like, we're trying to go to that healing place for the horse. Right. Or we're trying to do better for whoever. And it's like, oh gosh. It's, it comes back to the judgment, which we don't even know we're doing if we're trying to do something better for somebody. But it's still a judgment cuz maybe the, like your horse<laugh> your horse. So I Oh no, I'm just happy to be here with you, huh?
Speaker 4:Yeah, exactly Right. It's like, oh dear. Yeah. No indeed. And um, so there's a, a kind of a fun thing that your listeners, maybe we should try. That was really profound for me cuz, and it, I totally came upon this accidentally, but I was laughing so hard, so mm-hmm.<affirmative>, I live on a little six acre hobby farm, and so there's always something to do, right? I, there's always a bush that needs to be trimmed or, or a garden needs to be plucked or a manure that needs to be picked up. There's always something. Yes. And so I found myself and I, and it's paradise. It is just beautiful here. And when I allow myself to just be with the horses, it is truly breathtaking. But what usually happens is I will be walking through my place going up, I gotta trim that, oh shoot, I didn't plant that, that broccoli yet. Oh shoot. I didn't do the grapevine. And so you're never, ever just there. So a fun thing to try, and it works great in nature because we don't have judgments such as, you know, this is, has to be for healing or this has to be for the higher earth. Good, right? Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. So just have their listeners go through a walk in the park and notice how many times their mind tries to change something like, oh, I wish there wasn't so many mosquitoes or lie. Wow. They really allowed that grass to grow too long. And you'll find yourself trying to correct things all day long. Mm-hmm. And that helps you really see the judgment without attaching that emotional tie to us that so many of us have. Like, once you've made a judgment that's emotional to you, it's really hard to your point, get outta that insidious circle. Yeah. But if you can go do something and just observe nature and go, wow, I am trying to control the fact that it's raining right now, that it's ridiculous, I will never be able to control that<laugh>.
Speaker 3:Yeah. That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 4:You're welcome. I hope it helps.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, and, and you talk about like this constant to-do list mm-hmm.<affirmative>, um, that puts us in a place of over responsibility sometimes. And out of that present moment that's, that's another seek sneaky, sneaky<laugh>. Yeah.
Speaker 4:They're all sneaky. That's the problem. Like if, and I think that's it. If you can just have that a moment, the, that moment where you separate yourself from your mind and the little, the little monkey mind that's going, oh,<laugh>, if you can just give yourself that space, that helps a huge amount. But it's hard to do because it's, it's so sneaky.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And it has many faces and mm-hmm.<affirmative> and they are, and sometimes it's actually voices that we've, uh, adopted.
Speaker 4:Oh, sure. Yes.
Speaker 3:Right? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4:Yeah. Absolutely. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, you know, it's, I don't know if you saw this on Facebook that it was just absolutely fantastic. So there's this, um, gal who that who was, who took a video, her boyfriend who knew nothing about horses. And so she, she shows the video of her with her horse right before that. And, and she's trying to lead the horse and she's trying to pull the horse and the horses is having none of it, right? Mm-hmm. He's just like, locked all four legs,<laugh>, you know, I don't care how hard you're pulling, I'm not coming. Right. And then her boyfriend, who has never met a horse and his entire life is the first horse he is ever met, just walks up to the horse, invites him to follow him, and the horse falls'em everywhere like a dog<laugh>. And she was just so distraught. She's like, this is my life, this. And I get it though, because what happens is we come in with these expectations and we just project these onto everything. Right? Yeah. And some things don't want to accept that expectation. It it is repulsive to them. It repels them. So I thought that was so interesting.
Speaker 3:Very, I I know exactly the video you're talking about. Oh, you saw it? Yes. Yeah. And like, she's describing it as the love affair between her gelding or her<laugh>. And the boyfriend and the boyfriend can do no wrong and Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah. Just cuz he's in full allowance, right? He's showing up with no judgment, no expectation. He has no right or wrong for horses in his mind. And so he's a delight to be with
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. And like you say, the whole dynamic changes the whole energy field. Yes, yes. And yes. If, and I'm full body goosebumps. So how often do we show up like that, that boyfriend in our lives mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Exactly. And how often do we stop the intuition that keeps us in the flow<laugh>, because we're having all of those proverbial behaviors of the girlfriend.
Speaker 4:Hmm. Yes. Yes. And it's, it all comes down to the shoulds, right? Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, I, my, I should be able to lead my horse, right? Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, I should be able to ride my horse, whatever it is. You know, I, I should always have a clean house. But as soon as you have those shoulds, you've, you've stopped. Right? You've got that stagnation, you've got that blockage and it's repelling.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And I think that I recently heard about the global stagnation energetically that has been going on way longer than we would've perceived it. So, Hmm. One would say the last three years have been very stagnant, you know, like, be in your house, don't go to the restaurant, blah, blah, blah. Like all of those things are sit in place, right? Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. And yet some people actually had the most movement in their life because they found the outdoor park and they found the woods and they found the, you know, they adopted the dog mm-hmm.<affirmative>. So when somebody put it on my radar screen that the stagnation has actually been going on longer than we would anticipate, my brain went immediately to technology.
Speaker 4:Mm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:<affirmative>. And the person I was having the exchange with was like, Nope, longer than technology. And I was like, oh, what would that be? And they were talking about the stagnation of, and it's ironic, but they were talking about the stagnation of our school system in the sense that we are in an environment, at least in North America, where you're taught not to intuitively learn
Speaker 4:Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, very much so
Speaker 3:You're taught to learn, memorize, predict, whatever mm-hmm.<affirmative>, like do the mm-hmm.<affirmative>, do the skills, take the test and move on mm-hmm.<affirmative>. And I'm like, oh, wow. And years ago I got really curious about the Waldorf Rudolph Steiner stuff and how intuitively based that whole learning dynamic mm-hmm.<affirmative> was indeed and is. And when they said that it had to relate to our education system, I was like, oh my gosh, that's like centuries old<laugh>. Like that's Yeah, that's old. And so I had never, and would never, and so there's so many paradigms going on right now that are making me kind of sit back and go like, well, what actually is in alignment? What is acceptance and allowance? And do we even have the right perceptions of what those actually are to, and, and I'm not sure if we're going with what we're told it is, whether that's actually accurate or whether or not, and accurate's probably the wrong word, whether it's, it's actually what it is, I guess. Or if we just go based on what it is internally that we each individual feel when we feel lighter, better, peaceful. Cuz I think different people will have different things that get those things in play. I don't know. What are your thoughts on
Speaker 4:That? I, yeah, I absolutely, yeah, I love that. I absolutely love that. I think you're spot on. So for me, and, and it'll be fun for us to discuss what is for me and what it's for you. So the other people can play what's right for them. Absolutely. But for me, it's that space, right? It's all a sudden, like, there's enough space for whatever I'm feeling, and based on with the horses, it's just this beautiful complete peace because all is right. Right. Every, everything is the way it's supposed to be. It's all good. You know, it is just all good. And so there's just so much space and freedom versus when I'm, in my mind there's almost none<laugh>. Right. You know, it's, it's so tight, it's so constricted. So that's how I feel it. How do you feel it?
Speaker 3:Hmm. I got goosebumps as soon as you said the word space, it was like, whoosh, like full body, slow, fast, goosebumps. Yeah. I don't think I've ever reflected on it. Yeah. I I, it's almost like there's nothing
Speaker 4:Yes. Yes.
Speaker 3:<laugh>, it's
Speaker 4:Like, but it's a beautiful nothing. Right? Is that Yeah. Beautiful. Nothing. Yes. Yes. How I feel it, yes. It's so much freedom. There's
Speaker 3:Restriction, but yes is a better word, but like the brain is blank. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, the Yes. Like the actual feeling in the body is blank. It's not like Yes. Joyful. It's not sad, it's not angry. Like it's just a blank canvas. It's
Speaker 4:Like, in my mind, in another word, try this one on. Okay. It's neutral.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:It's, yeah, it's neutral. So like, it's just, it just is what it is. Right. Versus you hear it and then you have whatever, whatever it is, whether you love it or hate it, it's still a judgment, right? Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Whereas for me it's just literally, it's just neutral. It's just, here we are. Mm. And it's delightful.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's a sneaky, delightful. Cause again, we have perceptions of what delightful is. Oh, Andy. So fun.
Speaker 4:Yep. Andy. Well, English is so tough, right? Actually, I think any language is so tough. Yeah. Because a lot of these things really aren't describable. And perhaps that is because of the education we had. And I mean, that's certainly possible, right? We were, we were not equipped to describe these things. And in two these things we were, you know, right. Taught to how do you run a scientific procedure? How do you, how if it's not replicatable and d it's not real.
Speaker 3:Right. Exactly.
Speaker 4:Mo most of real life is not real then. Right.<laugh>, right. Indeed.
Speaker 3:All the good parts anyways.
Speaker 4:Yes, indeed. Right? Yes. Where the magic happens is, you know, that's what we're all looking for, and yet we're working for these poor little brains that we're taught that that doesn't count. So Yeah, it's
Speaker 3:Tough. Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay.<laugh>,
Speaker 4:It's huge, right? It's, it's huge. It's, and you can see why the horses struggle to teach us, because we're literally coming from a total different angle, right? So they have to work with this long enough just to get us to the space where we can go, oh, snap. Right? And then, then you gotta grasp it for as long as you can. And then finally you can allow yourself that gift. But it's so difficult because it's almost like we, we, you know, we're trained to, we're not good enough for that gift. Right. You're right. You shouldn't have that much contentment, but we should.
Speaker 3:Right. It's not a worthiness thing. It's actually a birthright<laugh>. Yes,
Speaker 4:Yes. But yes. And somehow we, we lost that a long time ago. At least I have, I I felt for a long time. Unworthy. Right. So, you know, um, I actually had a really interesting, I, I love this. I was listening to a podcast and the gal was talking about your zone of genius. And she believes your zone of genius comes from whatever you were ashamed. Well often comes from whatever you were ashamed, most for in your life. Interesting. And I realized for me it was exactly that. It was that innocence. It was that, you know, complete delight with life. And it just knowing that everything was good and that was kind of, you know, the whole mean girl thing kind of taken out of me. And, and then you do, you have to earn it back. You have to go, wait a second, this is just how it's supposed to be. I'm allowed to be discontent.
Speaker 3:I love that. How many people have been beaten up or in the axis consciousness world, you know, their wrongness is their strongness to quote them. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, right? Mm-hmm.<affirmative> and said a different way with the shame for mm-hmm.<affirmative>. It's so interesting. And yet that's when we're in our most flowy, intuitive, nothingness place. Right. Once we get rid of all the other people's words in our heads,<laugh>. Yes.
Speaker 4:Yes. And then you can give your gift, whatever, whatever gift you're meant to give, then you can give it. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Right? Because you're full of yourself. Yeah. In a good way. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Oh wow. We,
Speaker 4:Oh, I love that. That's so good. Such a great point, Heather. Right. And we've literally been taught that being full of yourself is bad. Yeah. Right? I mean, that's such an interesting quote you just said, because it is that you're actually full of who you are. Yeah. But you know, oh, she's so full of herself. Isn't that interesting?
Speaker 3:How are even our use of language has been twisted.
Speaker 4:Yes. Yes. Contract, contract, contract. Yeah. Keep'em
Speaker 3:Small. Yeah. Keep'em small.
Speaker 4:Andy.
Speaker 3:Oh my goodness. We're gonna blow some tops off today.<laugh><laugh>. Yay.
Speaker 4:Well, and it's, it's so true. The horses are just such amazing teachers. And, and like I said, I mean, I've, I've lived with mine for four years now and it has been a labor for them. I mean, it's just like, they must literally be like, really? This is the human we got. She must be the slowest human out there because it's so hard. Right. You're overcoming all the stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah. They're so patient.
Speaker 4:Ah, right.
Speaker 3:They are. That's amazing. They're, and and literally any animal, I mean, cats are probably, some cats are maybe the least patient<laugh> as<laugh> as far as, uh, domestic animals. Cuz I've got one who like, has no problem walking all over me.<laugh> head my head and like starts chewing on my head if I'm like, oh, okay. I need to pay attention. You're chewing on my head,<laugh>. Great, thanks. You know? Yeah. A horse will get impatient too, I'm sure in their own little way. But yeah, if we only turn up the volume, I would, this is interesting if you turn up the volume on animals who don't ever come from a place of judgment unless they've got their own trauma. And I don't even know still if they come from a place of judgment in all cases when they have trauma created by a human, by the way. Usually, not always, but, you know, again, judgements. Do you hear all those judgements? I just said<laugh>. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 4:<affirmative>. There's
Speaker 3:Many, there's many there. But if we could turn up the volume on how animals are speaking to us, or nature is speaking to us and turn down the volume on all that training we got from our lives in mm-hmm.<affirmative> in existence with people and environments and whatever else, that would be interesting if that would accelerate our, that would be an interesting thing to I'm sure it would, but maybe
Speaker 4:We Yeah. I I can't imagine that it wouldn't. And again, it's, and and you may find this as well, so I think it's fascinating is, um, you know, whatever our own shame, fear, or guilt is, you know, and it can be any, something different at all the time or whatever it is. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>, when you're in it, it feels so intense and so real. And you'll find yourself watching your friend or your partner or someone at work and you're like, oh my gosh, the universe is offering them the same lesson for the fifth time. How are they not seeing it? Right? Because it's so easy from the outside Yeah. But when it's your own stuff, yeah. It just feels so huge.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. It's like those blind pimples. It's like nobody knows what I'm going through. Oh, I love that. It is so true. It is easier to look on, look outside than look inside, but looking gosh inside, oh my gosh, yes. Where all the juicy wonderfulness actually happens mm-hmm.<affirmative>. And you don't have to share it. It doesn't have to, like, again, we've been told that we have to share everything on social media, but you don't have to share<laugh>. You don't have to share any of it. We don't really need to know<laugh>, you know?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I, I absolutely agree with you. You don't. But maybe it's just me, but I think it's on, and maybe I just had no inclination to share it anyway, being an introvert, but I think even just peeking in there yourself is, is pretty heavy stuff. I mean, it's, it's very, it can be quite uncomfortable to approach those subjects because, you know, in your mind it is reality. I mean, it's, it's like, you know, for somebody else, you're like, how could you believe that? But because that's what you believe, it's who's who you know in your mind is reality. So I think peeking inside can be almost more daunting than, you know, exposing it. Once you've seen it, you're like, oh my God, everyone should know this. Right? Yeah. But when you're doing it yourself, you're just like, oh my god, I'm, so, this is horrible. Right? Yeah. Or is that just me? Just me?
Speaker 3:Well, no, you know, depending on, on what it is. And, and perhaps don't go inside all by yourself. Like go inside<laugh> with intuitively who feels safe. Like, and that could be your worst, that could be a therapist, that could be, you know, your best friend, somebody who feels safe. Um, right, right. Uh, it could be a pass on loved one, it could be just about anything cause Right. Yeah. I think if we can feel safe, then that flow can happen as well.
Speaker 4:Indeed. Yep. You're so, you're so right. You know, it's interesting that, do you remember that one scene in Star Wars where Luke has to go into the cave and, um, Yoda talks about, you know, well, what's in there? He's like, only what you bring yourself. Right. And that's really the, I mean, cuz we're all on our own heroes art mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Right. We're all on our own heroes journey, and that really is it. Whatever, whatever you have to face is only what you're bringing in yourself.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Full body goosebumps again. Oh my goodness. I knew I had to talk to you again, Jill<laugh>.
Speaker 4:It's
Speaker 3:Been too long. I know. Awesome. So yeah. Don't be afraid to go in the cave Right.
Speaker 4:And
Speaker 3:Listen to your intuition on who and what you wanna bring. And you can leave the cave at any time. Right. Um, and you can know that this too shall pass, like,
Speaker 4:Right. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Right. And it can be easy to forget that, right? Mm-hmm.<affirmative> it can, it can feel like this is gonna last forever when, you know, it doesn't, but it, it can, it can feel that way.
Speaker 3:Well, and in that, in the denial, in the hiding and the shame and the blame and all those mm-hmm.<affirmative> low frequency emotions, that's where that stagnation happens. Yes. And we're not able to realize that it, it's in taking some movement towards addressing it or being with it, or whatever the case may be, that, um, intuitively actually takes the plug out of the tub and lets it drain
Speaker 4:Mm-hmm.<affirmative> indeed. And which is why shame is so sneaky, right? Mm-hmm. Brene Brown, I can't remember the quote, but she talks about how shame is just in so insidious because it's you guilt, you feel bad about what you did. Mm-hmm.<affirmative> shame you feel bad about who you are. Mm-hmm.<affirmative>. Right. So it's, and and to your point, you know, if you have a great therapist or you have a great friend, or you know, a horse that can listen, I mean, that's fantastic. But it can still be like, I don't want you to see this side of me. Right. Right. It's, it's, and clearly I'm a bad person versus this was a bad action. And that can be really hard. Very uncomfortable.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And yet, 99.9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9% of the time, it is just some perception that's gone. Yes. Walky, that is not actually Yes. Worthy of the emotional shame. Yes. Yeah,
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah. And the binds that you've put in yourself. Yes. And ironically, the, um, Brene Brene Brown considers the, the cure is to share it with someone mm-hmm.<affirmative>, but you have to share it with someone who's gonna be compassionate and listen and not judgemental, but because shame is only, is strong until you speak it out loud. And that's and that's so true.
Speaker 3:So true. That just takes the power away. It's like taking the Yes. Heated blower out of the air balloon is<laugh>. Yes, exactly.
Speaker 4:And then just deflate softly and Yes, exactly. Yeah. And that's no longer a thing. Yeah, no, that's a great point.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh. Wow. This one's loaded, Jill, this one is loaded.
Speaker 4:I told you the horse have really been working hard.<laugh>
Speaker 3:They have been working hard. Me too. Me too<laugh>. It was so neat that yeah, those two words showed up and then it just became this podcast. Thank you indeed so much. I hope this helps people. I'm sure it was.
Speaker 4:I hope so too. I hope, I hope that it resonates with people and, and inspires them to, to release the segmentation and move those blocks and, and move forward
Speaker 3:And crave the space, man. Crave the space.
Speaker 4:Yes, exactly. Yeah. Exactly.
Speaker 3:Cool. Thank you so much, Jill. Until next time,
Speaker 4:<laugh>, thanks much for having me over. It was just, it was lovely to chat with you again.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for giving us your time today. We truly appreciate our guests for sharing their stories and insights about how intuition has impacted their lives. And I'm so grateful for Peter Trainor for his time in giving me this original music. It's now your turn. It's your turn to listen and act on your own intuition and help make the world a better place. Until next time, keep seeing, being, knowing, and doing. If you like this podcast, please share it. If you want to find others like it, go to www.healingvitality.ca or wherever you would find your podcasts. We would love to have you join us on this journey. Come be a crow sitting in the tree. Be part of our community.