In this last episode about those who watch after the flock, Arnie and Fred finish up discussing passages where the word elder appears. Some of those passages were not referring to elders in the local church. We note that every church that has qualified men must appoint elders. We discuss the plural form of the word elder which is sometimes translated presbytery, elderhood or eldership, referring to the same plurality of those men in the local church. We talk about the fact that all elders are of equal "rank". Peter shows this when he uses the term "fellow elder" in his first epistle. We note that an elder is the same as an overseer in the local assembly. We complete this episode by looking at the terms pastor and shepherd which refer to the same individual who is an elder. We again talk about the use of these terms in the Bible. The terms overseer, elder, pastor or shepherd all designate men serving with the same responsibility in a local church. Take about 30-minutes to listen in on our discussion. Have your Bible handy so you can verify what we are saying. For your convenience, there is a transcript of this Buzzsprout episode provided.
In this last episode about those who watch after the flock, Arnie and Fred finish up discussing passages where the word elder appears. Some of those passages were not referring to elders in the local church. We note that every church that has qualified men must appoint elders. We discuss the plural form of the word elder which is sometimes translated presbytery, elderhood or eldership, referring to the same plurality of those men in the local church. We talk about the fact that all elders are of equal "rank". Peter shows this when he uses the term "fellow elder" in his first epistle. We note that an elder is the same as an overseer in the local assembly. We complete this episode by looking at the terms pastor and shepherd which refer to the same individual who is an elder. We again talk about the use of these terms in the Bible. The terms overseer, elder, pastor or shepherd all designate men serving with the same responsibility in a local church. Take about 30-minutes to listen in on our discussion. Have your Bible handy so you can verify what we are saying. For your convenience, there is a transcript of this Buzzsprout episode provided.
This is a presentation of the Woodland church of Christ meeting at 3370 Broad Street in Sumter, South Carolina. We meet for worship on Sunday at ten thirty am and five thirty pm. We meet for bible study at nine thirty am on Sunday, and seven pm on Wednesday. If you have questions or comments on this lesson, you may email them to Fred Gosnell at fgosnell@ftc-i.net Or to Arnie Granke at agranke440718@twc.com.
Arnie:Good afternoon. This is Arnie Granke. And Fred Gosnell. And this is what does the Bible say? Our little get together with you is brought to you by the church of Christ at Woodland in Sumter, South Carolina. We certainly would welcome you to worship with us, visit with us if you happen to be in town as a tourist or whether you're at Shaw Air Force Base on temporary or permanent duty there, we certainly would be glad to have you with us. Look us over and I think you'll you'll find what you what you can understand from the Bible. That that's what we do here. Fred, last week, we were talking about those who watch over the flock. There were several terms that are are used. King James Version and some of the other versions refer to those who are engaged in watching out for the spiritual well being of, of disciples are mistakenly referred to as, as bishops. That's, that's not a good word for that. And, and, in fact, it does not convey what this word even means at all. Overseer, somebody who watches over the spiritual welfare of, of disciples and and doesn't just watch it, but also counsels with them and helps them and whatnot to, to be as God would have them to be. And then we began to talk about the word elder. The word elder is from the Greek word presbuteros. And, and elders are are old, usually older men, more mature individuals. Typically that word has the, you know, suggests the idea of, of experience and maturity and, and being, of course, a little bit older than, than those who are who may not have quite yet gained that experience. And I think we'd read a couple of passages of Scripture, but we still had a few more that we wanted to talk about, didn't we?
Fred Gosnell:Yes. And we were talking about a number of examples, a number of passages that the word presbuteros is used, but it's not really talking about those elders who are in the church. We talked about the, Jesus talked about this, the those in the Sanhedrin were, were elders.
Arnie:Uh huh.
Fred Gosnell:And then there were local officials that were referred to as elders.
Arnie:Kind of like the city council.
Fred Gosnell:Yes, they were they were aged persons. Then they were, some ancestors were referred to in that way as presbuteros. And then we moved to two places where the, the word was used as overseers of a local church. And Titus. Paul wrote to Titus in Titus one five through nine and he uses our word there. And beginning in verse five, he says, For this reason, I left you, that's Titus, in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking and appoint elders in every city, as I commanded you. If a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination, for an overseer must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self willed, not quick tempered, not given to wine, not violent nor greedy, not greedy for money, but hospitable, a lover of what is good, sober minded, just, holy, self controlled, holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and convict those who contradict. So the problem there was that there were local congregations in cities that evidently had men who were qualified to be elders. And they had not been appointed. So Paul sent, sent Titus to do so. And he said, These things were that Titus was to set in order the things that are lacking. And he was to appoint these, these older men that met these qualifications, and quite a few of them there, to appoint those men to oversee the local flock.
Arnie:And it's interesting, I noted that you use the word men. And that's important because the the Bible uses men and, and in other words, plural, it's not one, just a single individual or, or anything of that sort. He's not, he's not a bishop, he's not the pastor, or anything of that sort. He's, he's one of the shepherds. And we'll talk about that in a little bit, as well. But he's one of a group of people, there has to be a minimum of two. And of course, if you have a larger group of, of disciples, you not only will probably have a larger number of, of men who are qualified for, for that position, and it'll be, you'll, you'll want to have more than two, you might want to have four or five, maybe, if it's a really large church, more than more than that. Something else though, there are also some responsibilities for women, but being elders is not one of them. Women are not overseers and, and elders, at least not in the sense that the the Bible speaks about that. Although if you have women who are well qualified, mature in the faith, and, and all of that, then certainly they can be useful and helpful in supporting the work that they're that their husbands are doing. So you never have just one. And you never have women, at least in that position there. We're not denigrating women or anything of of that short, don't want to leave you with with that impression. And one other thing I think that, that it's important for us to notice is that if, if the church has qualified men, plural, that they must appoint elders, it's it's not as if it's, well, you know, we don't want to do that. You know, we don't want to have anybody in that responsibility, or nobody's willing to, to do it or, or whatever. They certainly are immature in the faith if they are not willing to be of use to the Lord in that capacity. And since since their churches are commanded to do that, and commanded to have man and commanded to have plural, that's exactly the way that it that it should be done. Those that are appointed, in that position, form a group that if you were to use the word presbuteros as the basis of it, you might think of it as being a presbytery, not in the sense of the Presbyterian Church, necessarily. But it's a presbyterian or an eldership. That would be appropriate as well. I'm looking Fred at the first Timothy chapter, chapter four. And down in verse, verse 12, where where Paul is addressing Timothy's work in Ephesus. Verse 12, says, Let no man Let no one despise your youth. But be an example, to the believers in word, in conduct, in love, in spirit, in faith in purity, till I come, give attention to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine, doctrine, do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you by the by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the eldership. Immediately, I'm sorry, meditate on these things, give yourself entirely to them, that your progress may be evident to all. Take heed to yourself, and to the doctrine, continue in them. For in doing this, you will save both yourself, and those that that hear you. So here, Paul's giving some specific instructions and qualifications that are, that are to be a a part of that. Interestingly enough, Timothy apparently would not qualify as an elder per se because he was a younger man. But he served as a preacher and a teacher and, and he was basically one of Paul's right hand man, men, Timothy and Luke and, and a couple of others were were individuals who were very important to the work that that Paul was doing on his missionary journeys. And so, Timothy helped out in that regard,
Fred Gosnell:Yeah. And sometimes J. H. Thayer defined the presbyter, presbytery, he said, The elders of any body or church of Christians. And then G. R. Berry translated the term of course, that's a that's a plural term, the the elderhood
Arnie:Elderhood
Fred Gosnell:as a synonym for presbytery. And eldership, would be a good term as well, all of that is it's the plural form of the word. So shows us that there's always at least two. So all elders are of equal rank as well. As I think we've mentioned in the last episode, there's no presiding elder, there's no chief elder. And Peter points that out in first Peter five, one through four he's writing there, he says, The elders who are among you, I exhort, who am a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that will be revealed. Shepherd the flock of God, which is among you serving as overseers, not by compulsion, but willingly not for dishonest gain, but eagerly, nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock, and when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that does not fade away. So Peter mentions, he was a fellow elder. So even though he was an apostle, he didn't have any position over and above anybody else. He was an elder just like they were he was married, he had faithful children met all of those qualifications. And so that that argues against any presiding elder. So Peter had no supposed primacy over anybody else. He was a fellow elder and of course, he he refers to a number of things there. He tells them to shepherd the flock. They were shepherds, and to serve as overseers, episcopas. But but they weren't, they weren't over anybody in a position of authority, because Peter refers to the chief Shepherd, of course, that's the Lord. There's only one chief shepherd and that's the Lord. Elders, presbyteros, they serve the congregation and do the work that the scriptures point out for them to watch over the souls of those of the congregation that they serve in. Of course, Peter says that the elders who are among you I exhort. So elders are only among the congregation they're among. They're not over any other congregation in any other town or any other city or any other location.
Arnie:As you look at a map and this is kind of a different subject but as you look at a map of of where Peter was and who he was, he was writing to and where Paul was and and the places that he worked. You see that they're not overlapping each other. Paul is in in what's now Turkey, western Turkey on the on the Agean Sea and over in, in Eastern Europe, in in what we speak of as being Greece. But But Peter was up in northern now Turkey near the near the Dead Sea that we see a lot of the Dead Sea in the news here recently there that that area. And he was he was in places like Pontus and Galatia Cappadocia. It was called Asia, not the continent of Asia, although it was actually on the continent. But the the city was called Asia, Bithynia. And so each each one of them had areas where they worked, and they, they didn't just double up together, so that they wasted a little bit of the manpower. They used that as as sparingly as they as they possibly as they possibly could. So in Acts chapter, Acts, chapter 20, of course, we mentioned that I think Fred mentioned that the elder if we call him an elder, then he's the same thing as, as an overseer. The terms are interchangeable, elders, overseers, shepherds, all of those terms can be can be used. And in Acts chapter 20, when, when Paul is or when Luke is telling about Paul returning from his third missionary journey, verse 17, says, That from Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called for the elders of, of the church. So here he is, he's in Miletus, western Turkey now, but he he's not he's, he's not in Ephesus, because he's eager to get back to Jerusalem and finish that that journey, because he's carrying money that, that disciples in that and that congregations, in the areas where he worked, gave for the for the benefit of Jewish disciples back in, in Israel, and they, he wanted to get back there by pretty early and and didn't want to be overdue, because these people were needy of these things. So in in verse 28, therefore, he says, Therefore take heed to yourselves, and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you, overseers, to shepherd the church of God, which He purchased with His own blood. So elders, shepherds, and overseers, all three of those appear in that, in that passage is not talking about three different groups of men. They're talking about just three different terms by which they're identified.
Fred Gosnell:Yeah. The terms just, each term describes a particular work that the, that the individual has, you know, they are overseers, they oversee the flock, they are shepherds, they are feeders of the flock, pastors of the flock, and they are elders, they are older members of the flock. So in those terms, just to describe the particular things that the people are or that they do, they're the same individual. There's different characteristics and different work.
Arnie:All in the spiritual way, by the way. When we're talking about feeding a flock, we're not talking about meals in the church building.
Fred Gosnell:That's right.
Arnie:We're talking about spiritual food, which is God's word.
Fred Gosnell:And of course, Paul, evidently, the Corinthians had that problem because Paul told the Corinthians in First Corinthians 11, in two places, he said, If any man man is hungry, let him eat at home. So it's talking about spiritual feeding, not not physical.
Arnie:That's right.
Fred Gosnell:So so so so we move on to to the term that is translated either pastor or shepherd, the passage you just read, used the word, shepherd. And in Luke two, eight through 16, we, we find the word used there. We begin, where Luke writes in verse 8 he says, Now there were in the same country shepherds living out in the fields, keeping watch over their flock, but my night. Behold, an angel of the Lord stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shown round around them, and they were greatly afraid. Then the angel said to them, Do not be afraid for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people. For there's born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. And this will be the sign to you, you will find a babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel, the messenger, a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying, Glory to God in the highest and on earth peace, goodwill toward men. So it was when the angels had gone away from them into heaven, that the shepherd said to one another, Let us now go to Bethlehem and see this thing that has come to pass, which the Lord has made known to us. And they came with haste and found Mary and Joseph and the babe lying in the manger. So our our term shepherd is used twice in those passages. And, of course, it just shows these were shepherds that were in the field, they were tending their flocks. And they went to see the baby Jesus. And that's the term that's used for, for those who oversees a flock, they shepherd the flock as well.
Arnie:They shepherd shepherd the flock. Well, in John chapter 10. Jesus preaches what we what we might refer to as his good shepherd sermon. This was after, after he had healed the blind man, at the, sent him sent him to the Siloam mikvah to wash and and he came seeing. And, of course, in the meantime, there, he was confronted by the Jewish authorities who were, who were always disagreeing with what he was, what he was doing. And Jesus, Jesus begins in verse 11, he says, I am the good shepherd, The Good Shepherd, gives his life for the sheep. That's a key statement, stop and think about that for a moment. But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming, and will and leaves the sheep and flees. And the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them. The hireling flees because he is a hireling. He does not care about the sheep, I am the good shepherd, and I know my sheep, and am known by my own. As the Father knows me, even so I know the Father, and I lay down my life for the sheep, and other sheep I have, which are not of this fold them also I must bring, and they will hear my voice, and there will be one flock, and one shepherd. One of the things that that you have to understand is, being a shepherd doesn't mean that you just, you know, play some sort of music or something and, and just relax all the time in the shade. They were constantly busy working, and they had to be, some of them had to be awake at all hours. Because if, if wild animals got into the flock, they would kill the sheep, wolves and things like that. And so they had not only be taking care of all the needs of the sheep, even their even their veterinary needs. But they also had to be prepared to fight off anything that they came in to harm the sheep.
Fred Gosnell:Yes. And then sometimes we find the word translated as a pastor and of course, a pastor is one who is a shepherd, and he has ultimately has to meet the same qualifications, as are listed for for an elder. So in Ephesians, 4, 11 through 16, we find this term, Paul writes to the Ephesians. He says that, And He himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists and some pastors, there's a term that's other words, translated shepherds, And teachers, for the equipping of the saints, for the work of the ministry for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man to the measure of the stature of the fullness of of Christ, that we should no longer be children tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men of the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting and, but speaking the truth and love may grow up in all things unto Him who is the head, Christ, from whom the whole body joined and knit together by what what every joint supplies according to the effective working, by which every part does its share causing growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. So, so so pastors are shepherds, they, they feed the flock, so their their work is to make sure that the flock is growing. And of course, they provide the spiritual food to do so. And I think Peter talked about as newborn babies desire the sincere milk of the word that you may grow there by. And that's the work of the shepherd. That's the work of the pastor. That's his work to provide that that kind of instruction to the flock that he is a member of the local church, local assembly,
Arnie:And this is not an individual who necessarily wears clerical clothing and, and is the chief administrator of, of a local congregation or anything of that sort. He's just exactly what the Bible says and what we've been what we've been describing here. After Jesus resurrection, you recall that, that he, some of the apostles had gone up to the Sea of Tiberius, or the Sea of Galilee was also known and had gone fishing and Jesus went up there one morning and and John, chapter 21, verse one says, After these things, Jesus showed Himself again, to the disciples at the Sea of Tiberias, and in this way, he showed himself. Simon Peter Thomas, called the Twin, Nathaniel of Cana of Galilee, the sons of Zebedee, Zebedee, and two others of his disciples were together. Simon Peter said to them, I'm going fishing. And they said to him, we're going with you also. They went out and immediately got into the boat, and that night, they caught nothing. And when the morning had, now come, Jesus stood on the shore, yet the disciples did not know that it was Jesus, he was about 100 yards away from them. So it was a little different, a little difficult there, before the sun rose, to identify who who that would have would have been. And Jesus said unto them, children, have you any food? They answered him, No. And he said to them, cast the net on the right side of the boat, you will find some, and they cast. And now they were not able to draw it because of the multitude of the fish. Therefore, that disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, It is the Lord. That's probably a reference to John. And you recall that there had been a similar situation where Jesus had done that, and that's how he probably recognized him and possibly by his voice as well. Who knows about that. So, therefore, that disciple said to Peter, It is the Lord. And when Simon Peter heard that, that it was the Lord, he put on his outer garment, for he had removed it, and plunged into the sea. But the other disciples came in the little boat, for they were not far from the land, about 200 cubits mentioned that that's about 100 yards, Dragging the net with fish. Then as soon as they had come to land, they saw a fire of coals there, fish laid on it and bread. Jesus said to them, bring some of the fish, which you've just caught, Simon Peter went up and dragged the net to land full of large fish 153. And although there were so many, the net was not broken. Jesus said to them, Come and eat breakfast. Yet none of the disciples dared ask him, Who are you, knowing that it was the Lord. Jesus then came and took the bread and gave it to them and likewise the fish. This is now the third time Jesus showed Himself to His disciples after he was raised from the dead. So when they had eaten breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonah, do you love Me more than these? He said to him, Yes, Lord, you know that I love you. He said to him, Feed my lambs. He said to him again, a second time, Simon, son of Jonah, do love me. He said to him, Yes, Lord, you know that I love you. And he said, Tend my sheep. And of course, that's, that's the duty of, of shepherds. Well, we'll, we'll stop at at this particular point. We hope that you benefit from from us looking over the the overseers, the shepherds, and, and the elders. And we'll look forward to being with you again next Lord's Day. Have a good week.