Starving Doubts and Serving Laughs: PM Evolutions Edition Featuring Jerry Dugan, Matt Gibson and Russel Lolacher

In this episode, host Jared Easley talks with guests Jerry Dugan, Matt Gibson, and Russell Lolacher about their experiences at Podcast Movement Evolutions in LA. They discuss the networking opportunities, sessions attended, and overall positive experiences at the conference.

Each guest shares a few of their favorite podcasts:

• Jerry recommends LeVar Burton Reads, Based on a True Story with Dan Levesque, and Say More with Dr. Sheila
• Matt enjoys music industry shows like The Gig Gab Podcast, CD Baby's DIY Musician Podcast, The Lex Fridman Podcast, and The All-In Podcast.
• Russell likes movie industry shows such as KCRW's The Business and The Rewatchable.

In a humorous role-playing segment, the guests give each other advice. Russell advises Matt on planning the ultimate Canadian vacation, Matt counsels Jerry on modern dating, and Jerry guides Russell through the process of writing and publishing a book.

The guests also joke about what new podcast each would hypothetically launch based on their interactions that week. The episode concludes with the guests sharing where listeners can find them and their work online.

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Transcript

 Man, I'm just so glad to be here in the network,k folk, with folks deep in some new and, uh, good to see Jared thrilled to be in podcast movement revolutions and trying to pretend I'm 20 when I'm almost 50. So, my body's reminding me of that daily. But you'll say it's been a blast being here and learning a lot. 

Welcome back to starve the doubts. I'm your host, Jared Easley, and today, Jerry Dugan from Beyond the Rut is joining me. And, of course, my good friend, your good friend, Matt Gibson, Crimson Symphony Media. Thanks, Neural tunes and a host of other excellent platforms and things. So, uh, gentlemen, let's start with you, Jerry.

Welcome. Hey, I'm glad to be here. And I'm, I'm alive, guys. That's right. And then, uh, welcome back,

Matt, Hey, Jared. It's always a pleasure to hang out with Podcast Movement, meet many great people, network, and learn. It's been a great week. 

So, let's start with that. So I'll start with you, Matt.

You're here at Podcast Movement Evolutions in LA, and said you've had some good networking experiences. Can you tell me maybe two, maybe three, just a couple of people you've met that you're excited to continue the connection and, You know, maybe tell us a little bit what you can, you know, it might be something you can't?

So yeah, yeah, yeah. Those out. 

I'm always working on top-secret projects, so I keep that close to my chest, but I'm always looking for people doing things in the music and tech industry. I met some great people who live here in Los, some of the legends of the music business, and made some great friends.

You sit and talk to somebody for a couple of hours. It's like you're in, you know, every and so on. I'd say this has been one of the best podcast movements that I've attended just because the quality of the people who were here at Evolutions was phenomenal.

I was almost like brain overload because there were so many amazing people here. 

I echo that. I've had an excellent experience. This is the least stressful I've ever been at one of these events. Being one of the people who helped put this thing on, it's. Sometimes, a lot is happening.

This event was very exciting but also much less wild than others. So, Jerry, over to you. Let's chat about how you saw old friends and made some new ones. You said, so obviously, I'm now in the past here. Attention. 

Kmart shoppers  

Special on aisle 12.

In fairness, a session is happening right next to where we're doing this podcast. 

I love that we had dead silence for a good 20 minutes. The moment we started doing this was when they were about to start over there. That's all good. We'll edit it, or we might leave it in.

So yeah, I was going to say I wasn't as proactive in meeting certain people, going to specific sessions, and, you know, kind of work at this event. It was more of a lucky opportunistic sort of thing. Like, where are the free tacos? Oh, Hey, over here. I'm going to eat those.

Uh, Oh, look, free Nutella. We did have some good free tacos. Yeah.  

The amount of podcasting was diminished significantly here due to the food available. I still like that I ate more than I talked to people. It felt like we were talking about Hobbit meal schedules.

You have to eat and talk at the 

Same time, but go ahead. Just the one week in the year I get second breakfast regularly. So, in seriousness, though, like. And, you know, doing the work here, doing some behind-the-scenes stuff. It helped with the shiny object syndrome. It's like you guys kept me busy enough that it was all right, and I got a breather.

Oh, Hey, Lou Mangello was doing a session. Yeah. He's in the beginning, whatever it was, it was coming from some fundamental type of stuff, but I'm like, the pro athletes are successful not because they do fancy tricks. They're successful because they get to the fundamentals and do those well.

We are going to sessions like Lou Mangello's. He talked about the importance of building a community. We always talk about expanding our reach and getting more listeners. And he was like, forget chasing listeners. Find the few who are dead loyal to you, like hardcore loyal, and build a connection. Build loyalty with them, and take care of them. They will go out and create your listener base, and you will just keep building friendships.

And I was like, that's been the theme, getting back to sessions that covered the fundamentals instead. Here's the cool trend right now, And here comes some more 

Background. That's right. We have caramel popcorn in aisle three. It's 3. 99 a box today, only for the next hour as long as you see the blue light flashing in the background. This is the only podcast offering with a blue light special. 

We've been accused of worse, by the way,  

but my man Gibson by, and by the way, I would like to point out the irony of the star of the doubts, but this could be the star of the doubts, but not the body podcast and the amount of food we ate on this trip. Yeah. Matt mentioned that earlier.

Oh 

Yeah. Thank 

You, Matt. 

Okay. So, Matt, while we're on the topic, what have you enjoyed this week besides the food and the networking? All the sandwiches. Oh, okay. Hang on. Sorry. 

He went back to food right away. No 

Hesitation. I like it. We did some. Last night, there was a session on Impact Podcasting.

There were many impact-based podcasters who, you know, have purposes where they're trying to change the world, help people, and do things like that. There were a lot of great people there. I have a guy who does a disability podcast in Canada, and I spoke with him for almost an hour; I just learned about it.

From a Canadian perspective, the media industry is slightly different than in the States. There are other types of rules and regulations by which they have to abide. And so, you know, the thing I like about podcasts, and we've been in general, is that you get exposed to so many different perspectives on the world and how.

When you listen to podcasts on your own, many people stay in their lane, like what they're used to a little bit. For example, if you're a political conservative, you might not listen to liberal podcasts and vice versa, but here at the podcast movement, everybody is just like here.

We have podcasts in common, and they open up a lot of helpful dialogues that we could use in our country with all the stress going on today, you know, where people are at each other's throats. Still, it's the United States of America, so we must learn how to have those dialogues and talk about things people disagree with without hate and anger. It is a tough time, but the podcast movement helps bring everyone together and allows them to have a little patience with each other, you know, having different opinions and stuff. 

Jerry, let's pretend for a moment. We're going to go through your phone, and we're going to randomly select three podcasts that you're subscribed to and enjoy.  What would those three potentially be? All right. Not that you have your phone open and you're looking; I will be on. 

The spot completely.

Let's see who survived the purge. Beyond the rut. No, okay, no. Beyond the rut should be in everyone's podcast feed. Make that clear. I've been a big fan of LeVar Burton since I was a kid, reading Rainbow. So I've got LeVar Burton reads, and when I'm driving or want to chill out but I'm not ready to watch TV or videos, that's one I recommend.

He reads short stories, not kids' stories; they're like grown-up ones. So if you're into sci-fi, fantasy, literature, or LeVar Burton voice, Another one is based on a true story with Dan Levesque. He takes a movie based on a true story, adds the historical accounts that occurred, and does a lot of research behind it.

So he does the reading and finds out the facts, you know, what the movie did accurately, what they did with some creative license, and why. And another one is Matt Brown, who knows a little bit here, but Starve the Doubts, now that you're back up and running with that. And I wouldn't say I liked that show.

I listened to it more the entire time. It was terrible. Yeah.  You can name a third one. Okay. One that I added, though, thanks to the first keynote, was Say More with Dr. Sheila. Dr. Sheila, yes. With Amy Poehler. And so, seeing her talk about the show, but more importantly, When the Q and A happened during her keynote, she didn't just answer questions; she went into Dr.

Sheila mode. So she was in character. And so with Matt Mara, the MC, she's, yeah, in character of the show. So we got a little preview of that live, in-the-moment improv, and I was like, that is cool. That is cool. I subscribed right away. That was very funny. And then I was checking out Russell's show, uh, relationships at work.

I am talking about leadership in the workplace, which is what I do when I'm not podcasting about Beyond the Rut. I talk about how to build those relationships as a leader. So those are the three I recommend. Okay. Yeah. 

We'll pass that same question over to you, Matt. What shows do you like outside of an entrepreneur tech interview type of show?

Well, okay. Inside of that, then. 

That's all I listened to. Jared, you put me in a rut and a rut. So I, well, I heard, I like, I just launched my first single recently.  My dad's relations. Yep. Crimson Symphony, all platforms. Yes. And so. For a few years, I ran a show called Kingdom of Rock with Michael Melinda, the former editor-in-chief of Guitar Player magazine.

During COVID, we interviewed probably about a hundred artists about the music industry. The idea was to figure out how to make more money and be better at business as a musician. So, uh, one of the shows I listened to to learn more about the music industry is the Gig Gab podcast. G I G, Gig Gab, right?

And the other one is the DIY podcast, which CD Baby puts together. Dave Hamilton is the Gig Gab host, and I will be on that show here in about a week. So. 

Dave's been on the show. We're friends with Dan. We were friends with Dave when you did a Mac geek. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh yeah. I don't think he does anymore, but I'm not sure. I gotta; I'm just asking about that. Yeah. Yeah. But then, yeah, he's 

been 

in the podcast space for a 

It's been a long time. My favorite long-form show is the Lex Fridman podcast. Yes, I love his deep-dive conversations with all these amazingly talented and brilliant people from different perspectives.

And then my last one is, and my favorite one that I watch every single time it comes out, is All in Podcast, Jason and Chamath and David and all, and you know, all those guys. So. 

I want to recognize that Russell Lolliker joined us here on the podcast.

Russell from Relationships at Work, which Jerry Dugan just plugged. Russell, welcome to the show. Welcome to being here. Hi, everybody. Okay. So we're just talking about podcasts that we listen to. Sure. Not that you have your phone open and you're checking, but if you were to say three shows that you listen to and perhaps a short reason why, what are a couple of shows that stand out to you?

Sure. 

I'm going to go super nerd. Generally, I like to listen to leadership podcasts because they are more brand-focused, but I love movie podcasts. Yes. Some of the biggest ones I listen to are not just movies themselves but also the business.  QPRW has one called The Business, which I've been a fan of for many years, where it looks like the background of the movie industry, not just, it's not the art, it's the business.

I've always been a big fan of that one and started watching the Rewatchables. That's a rounder podcast about movies I've loved, and now it is making me rewatch them repeatedly. So that's another time suck. Thank you very much, Rewatchables. And yeah, if we're talking about the top three pop culture happy hours, it's a quick little injection of people needing out. I like to nerd out.

So yeah, getting in a movie. We're going to put you on the spot here for a moment. 

Let's pretend you're giving expert wisdom, paid, professional advice to our friend Matt Gibson here. Let's say Matt is trying to establish himself and do something meaningful. What advice would you have for Matt as he pursues this?

And I'm 

super wealthy, and I'm going to pay you 10, 

000. Well, yeah, yeah. So this is top quality for you to guide and give him wisdom on taking next-level steps. So, when it comes to podcasts. Yeah. So you're okay, now put on your hat. You're helping; well, it doesn't have to be podcasting.

It can be anything. So, uh, Russell, you are now giving guidance to Matt. Go ahead.  

Give Matt guidance about this. Anything and everything? That was too open-ended. It may be vague. Jerry, can you help 

Me?  

Guys, I have feelings here. Men and women love each other—wrong advice. I've heard of this stork. 

Okay, we don't need to start that basic. So wait, do you eat the crayons or write with them? Oh, I believe the Marines eat them. Okay, let's  

Let's guard rails, okay? Russell, you're from Canada, so let's say Matt wants to plan the ultimate Canada vacation. 

Yes.

Go there. The ultimate Canadian vacation, eh? You know, for the ultimate Canadian vacation, you have to do the scope of the country. Much like the U. S., you can't just say it's  America and have any concept that it is not 17 million different cultures within. So I would, you know, going from the West Coast, I was even explaining it to, uh, actually talking to you this morning, Matt, about how the West Coast is very much the more relaxed, more of the outdoorsy or the, the, the focus of island life and, and that, and then moving right into, I guess, Alberta would be our Texas would be that probably the closest everybody likes to compare. Still, it's a little more cosmopolitan than that.

Getting into our bread basket would be Saskatchewan and Manitoba, which are like the wheat fields and sort of the heart of the country, getting into Ontario, where our capital, Toronto, Ottawa, is. So many Canadians would hate me for calling Toronto the capital. That was very hurtful.

And I am ashamed and embarrassed even to say it out loud. But Toronto thinks they are the capital anyway, then moving into Montreal, our French Canadian history. Then, you can only get more interested in Newfoundland, Halifax, and PEI, which is on our East Coast. And then our territories as well, which everybody seems to not think of immediately when they're thinking of traveling, which is like none of it Northwest territories in the Yukon hold on is their own cultures to themselves.

I have a question. Okay. So 

This is a vacation. Yeah. Much. You tell me how long it was. Long of a vacate. This is? It's like a six-month vacation here down.  You're a tech. 

Entrep. reneur, so I didn't take parameters here. You're a digital nomad, in my mind. You're okay. You're travel, 

so. So I'm in an RV, and I'm driving across Canada.

Hell yeah, you are. Is that like? How cold am I going to be? It depends on what time of year you're going. Okay. I thought Canada was always cold. There are some generalities. 

About America, I could do that, too. But no, it's; the west coast is mild all year round in some areas, but we can get pretty cold.

It just depends on how north you go. That's why 80 percent of our population is right along the border to the U.S. because that's the most moderate temperature. Yeah, it's not because we have better Starbucks. We have Tim Hortons, and we're fine.  

That was well said. Excellent job, Russell. Hey, so Matt, uh, you are being paid to give guidance to Jerry Dugan. How much?

Who is? Jerry is preparing for a presentation that he was asked to do on, um, The latest and greatest in dating, and Jerry's happily married. And, um, so he's trying to, so he 

He doesn't know anything about the dating world, but he's been tasked, he's been tasked. 

To do this properly. It's like he wants to do a good job.

So yeah. Can you, can you help him? Yes. All 

Right. Give Jerry that profound. You must delete all the dating apps on your phone if you have any.  

And 

Secondly, the dating app's business model allows you to go on a thousand meaningless dates and keep subscribing to its service.

So, getting you the best match is not in their best interest. It's in their best interest to get you the second-best match that doesn't work out, so you return. Man, so think about that. Yeah. And I'm saying this because I've been playing the single game for a while, and I've decided I'm not doing that anymore.

The best thing to do is, and this is what I'm doing, and I've had to do it as a tech entrepreneur and musician. You know, you've got to always be in self-development mode because if you're the best option, you will have the best options. So, I need a 10 in the significant other category.

If you're not a 10, that's a hard ask. And so then what you do is you're out there in the world, working on yourself and not worrying about it. We start meeting people; some people gravitate towards you, while others don't. The people that don't, even if you like how they look or what they have, maybe don't chase them because what is it?

They say if you start a relationship by chasing the other person, you'll be chasing them the entire relationship. Wow, because it's a cell job. Yeah, right. So you want to have somebody in your life. And I think this way of business, too, you want to have people around you who gravitate towards you, want to be involved, and are excited to be involved in your life.

And so. I would say that anybody dating would be the advice I would give them. Okay. 

Let the record reflect that Russell loves a good upsell.  Oh, that's my former life, son. He's like the king of the upsell. 

All right. So, uh, Jerry, 

now over to you. I planned this because you and Russell had an interesting conversation the other day.

I want to take it in this direction. Let's pretend you're the expert who gives Russell sound wisdom and insight into writing a book. Oh, on writing 

A book. Yes, Brad. Oh, man. And we're not just writing a book, but putting it out. Okay. Yes. All the above. So, a couple of things,  so what I did, so this is where I'd like the record to show that Jerry repositioned himself, he got excited,  and he braced himself about to throw a bunch of knowledge in my direction, and yeah, repositioned myself so that I'm talking across the microphone and at Russell at the same time.

So I feel like Jerry. There we go. Thank you. Thank you. So the first thing I did was, in a very Cortez fashion, I burned my ship behind me by investing about 6,000 to have a company guide me through the process. That is not the way to go with everybody else. But that came with a wife who said you must earn that money back.

So that was my motivation and accountability to get the book done so that the speaking gigs and the sales would recoup the cost of that investment, which it did. So that's why we're in year number 23 of my marriage,  not, uh, no, yeah, she was going to keep me, but yeah, I would've gotten a lot of grief.

So I did that. I had some accountability. I had a book coach get me through. You don't always have to have that. But I recommend at least knowing who your editor will be and selecting one because that will be the critical thing two hours later. Regarding the writing part, I went through a brainstorming process of, like, who is it I'm trying to help?

What's the specific thing I want to help him with? How does that book solve that? Then, from there, I just jotted down everything I could do. And it might be in reverse order. But anyway, yeah, somewhere in there, I did brainstorm. Who am I helping? How did I do an outline? When it came to writing, many folks just got on the computer and started typing away.

This is where the podcasting part comes in. Google Docs has a voice-to-text feature. I just turned that on. I talked into my microphone, and whatever part of the outline I was on would flow. You can do the same thing by recording audio. Now you've got a podcast episode. 

Transcribe it with Otter. So eventually, yeah, give that to your editor. That's further than most people get. Once it's edited, do the revisions, then find somebody to format it for you. Find somebody to do the graphic design of the cover. Cause people do judge a book by its cover and then find somebody to format that sucker for sale. 

Well, it was said. Wow. That was good. Okay. So Matt, uh, based on your experience this week with Russell, if you were to name the podcast that he's releasing this coming week, which is fictitious, Based on your experience of knowing Russell in one week, what would the name of that Relationships? 

The name of this show is Relationships at Work.

Ironically, when I first met him, I made a joke. I pretty much knew his business, but I made a joke about dating people at work, which you're not supposed to do. So there was that, you know, I always think that podcasts exist. Yeah. Right. Relationships at work. So, I would say that.

The next episode would be, don't punch your coworker.  That would have been a good episode name. That would be Russell Hyatt, the CEO of that one.  

And Russell has a history of it's been up. Don't punch your boss.  It's a spinoff episode. Yeah. Yeah. And how do you explain why? Yeah. 

Just leave it at that.

Anybody that has a job already knows why, Jared.  

And Russell, in your limited exposure to Jerry Dugan, what would his new podcast be 

Released and why? How do you survive in a Spanish marriage without knowing much Spanish? Here we go.  

Wait, wait. Just by the way, this comes from the guy who said the United States is Canada's Mexico.

We are. I just said you're south of the border. 

Well, like you immediately thought,  let's be clear here. I did not.  So, send the hate mail to  

We should probably stop the show. Jerry, of course, you've known Matt for some time now. And if Matt Were releasing a new show and you were to name it, go ahead.

Oh, shoot.  You're thinking too long. I am. I 

Am. Uh, how, how to chase influencers. Um, 

it's the sequel to the book written by Jared. Uh, stop chasing influencers. That's right. 

Dude, I, Jared, when I, when I met Jared and I saw his book, I'm like, dude, that guy is going to hate me  because  that's 

All I do is network with. And, your tagline to the book or the subtitle is because you will do it anyway.

Exactly.  Right. 

Right. Russell, I need you to create a podcast title for Matt Gibson based on this week. What, what would it be?  

And you can't arrogant American spouting nonsense. No, I'm kidding. I got frustrated, and I didn't know where to target. Is there 

 Do I need to elaborate there? Nope. That's my highlight. I appreciate that we're trying to protect the back here. 

Oh man, I will be a source of humor for you fellows. I will get a coffee now and 

Recover from the fan club. Fan club. That would have been my title.

Okay. So, this is fun. We'll wrap it up because we have things to do. But, Matt, what can people learn about more? MT and see what's going on. 

You can go to mad gibson.net, where the links are on my page. It's a simple page. I'm available on social media, either through Mad Gibson Music or you can check Empty Crimson, the band's name, available on all streaming platforms. 

Yes Great zone 

Uh. We're also working on a collaboration with Bruce Boulier from RacerX for the next track. It's going to be, uh, I think it's going to be called PTSD. It might be an instrumental guitar shred. I have relationships at. I have some other news that I can't tell you about, but it will be exciting. I'll give you some more details later. 

Okay, stay tuned and, 

uh, 

Russell, 

If people want to connect, yeah, it's easy peasy relationships at work. I'm Canadian, so it's the ca at the end of that one.

Other than that, relationships his a, work, um, genuine, relationships at work, relationships at work, relationships at work? You sense a theme, don't you, Jared? I do. I'm good with the branding. Uh, yeah, anyway, yeah, please reach out. I always love talking about this stuff.  And you, Jerry. All right.

And you can find me anywhere. Complimentary breakfast tacos are provided. Um, but other than that, if you have a hard time finding me there,  beyondtherut. Com, there you'll find episodes of my show, Beyond the RUT, a link to the book, Beyond the RUT, social media platforms, Beyond the RUT, and then also my, um, my company, which is BTR Impact, which BTR stands for  We'd love to finish the show with final thoughts, quick final thought.

All right, man. I'm just so glad to be here in the network. Folks with folks deep in some new friendships, and I get to see Jared.  Uh, I'm thrilled to be in podcast movement revolutions and trying to pretend I'm 20 when I'm almost 50. So my body's reminding me of that daily, but, uh, say it's been an absolute blast being here and learning a lot.

I 

I want Russell to see the dating slides I gave Jerry for your dating work show. My dating work show. Yeah. 

Uh, 

You're more than 

Welcome to them.  Gentlemen, thank you so much.