In this episode Tim and Roxanne celebrate 10 years of the influential book “Not By Chance.” They discuss the initial struggles of publishing the book and why they did it in the first place.
Ever wondered how a book could redefine an entire field? “Not By Chance” did just that. Discover how it transformed teen treatment by reinstating parents as the primary focus, shifting from program-centric to family-centric approaches. You'll hear about one impactful parent, how the book helped families transition, and why it’s been dubbed the "transition Bible". This book has even influenced the language used in treatment programs and contributed to a better understanding of transition.
Lastly, we want to take a moment to express our heartfelt gratitude. To all the parents who embraced "Not by Chance" and its approach to intentional parenting - thank you. You are the pivotal force behind the book's success and your commitment to intentional parenting has brought about lasting positive changes in your homes. Whether you're a longtime reader or just discovering “Not By Chance” now, join us for this celebratory episode as we reflect on a decade of transformation and inspiration.
In this episode Tim and Roxanne celebrate 10 years of the influential book “Not By Chance.” They discuss the initial struggles of publishing the book and why they did it in the first place.
Ever wondered how a book could redefine an entire field? “Not By Chance” did just that. Discover how it transformed teen treatment by reinstating parents as the primary focus, shifting from program-centric to family-centric approaches. You'll hear about one impactful parent, how the book helped families transition, and why it’s been dubbed the "transition Bible". This book has even influenced the language used in treatment programs and contributed to a better understanding of transition.
Lastly, we want to take a moment to express our heartfelt gratitude. To all the parents who embraced "Not by Chance" and its approach to intentional parenting - thank you. You are the pivotal force behind the book's success and your commitment to intentional parenting has brought about lasting positive changes in your homes. Whether you're a longtime reader or just discovering “Not By Chance” now, join us for this celebratory episode as we reflect on a decade of transformation and inspiration.
There are as many ways to parent as there are parents in this world, but there is one way to parent that wins every time, and that's doing it intentionally. This show is about helping things go right before they can go wrong. Each episode is chosen to help parents like you who may be overwhelmed or uninspired, bringing the ideas and motivation to give their best efforts to the people and place that matters the most. I'm Dr Tim Thane, author of the book and host of the podcast. Not by Chance. I believe that a family's success and happiness is not by chance, so welcome to the podcast. Built especially for intentional families. Let's jump in.
Roxanne:Well, welcome parents. This is a very special Not by Chance podcast that we're doing today. I'm Roxanne Thane. I am the marketing director for Tim Thane and the Not by Chance program and our new trusty app. I was also the marketing director at Homeward Bound for 14 years. We're excited today and we're celebrating. So, tim, you want to go ahead and celebrate.
Tim:Sure, if you can't see that, if it's not on video for you, that's a real cowbell. We just rang, so you want to tell them why?
Roxanne:Well, that used to hang around our cow or milk cow's neck, and when we changed our barn into our offices for work, we kept that cowbell hanging on the wall and whenever something great would happen, we'd get a great story from a family that was doing well. We'd come out and Tim would be ringing that bell and everybody would cheer and it was just a lot of fun. And so today we thought if any day for our career and the work that we've done deserves a cowbell ring, it's today. So congratulations.
Tim:That's absolutely right. Yeah, Ten years. It's amazing really.
Roxanne:Ten years since the book Not by Chance how Parents Boost their Teen Success in an After Treatment came out. And it was November of 2023, or 2013.
Tim:2013. We were in San Diego, yeah.
Roxanne:We were in San Diego for the Independent Educational Consultant Association when we finally got the book and we'd been working on it for about two and a half years, and it was so fun to have a book launch there with all of our friends and colleagues in the profession, and so we thought that it would be a great idea, since that's the name of our podcast, to actually go back and talk about the impact the book has had over these last 10 years. So, tim, how do you feel about that, that it's been 10 years?
Tim:Well, first it 10 years flies. It really does.
Tim:Yeah, it went very, very quick. But it's fun to think back about what's happened in those 10 years, and especially related to Not by Chance, and how pivotal that was. You know that we wrote that book and I say we because I'm glad you're here on the podcast with me because you were so central to that book actually happening, If you remember. Maybe it'd be fun for the audience to know. But every year Roxanne kept telling me you need to write this book because when we started Homeward Bound it was a big flying leap of faith. We could see a problem in the adolescent treatment industry. We could see that there was a huge need for support after treatment in the home and family. So we'd started Homeward Bound, but it was years of trying to figure it out. You know how to actually create a model to help improve outcomes after treatment.
Tim:Before I felt like we had our arms around a little bit, and so every year Roxanne would say Tim, you need to, you really need to write the book on this process that we've learned about and get it out there to families. And I kept pushing it off. It was like an onion in that there were multiple layers and you don't know really how many layers there are until you get into it, and that was the case with Homeward Bound and all the things we were learning. It felt like we were learning as much from every family we were going into the home as they were with us. And if that's still the learning curve you're on, you don't think you're qualified to write a book, because you're learning, you know from your clients new things all the time.
Tim:Well, finally, I think the thing that really got us to write it was you had a dream. You dreamt that one of our past employees, who really didn't know anything, went out there and wrote the book before we did, and you woke up, you know, kind of in a start and was like, okay, we are going to write this book. And so you had this urgency and you said you know enough, we are going to write this book. And you took the role of my kind of waking me up early in the morning.
Tim:I was your whipcracker, you were the whipcracker and you would sit and type as I would talk. You'd ask me questions, I'd respond and it was kind of a talk your book thing in the beginning that you captured, you know, all this information. And then the other thing is you had such a great voice yourself I think it was a blend really of your voice and my voice that came out in this book, and so how it started was really interesting and, you know, for years I would parents, would say thank you so much for writing this book. And I'd have to say you need to thank my wife because she's the one that cracked the whip and made it happen.
Roxanne:I think, if I might just toot my own horn, it's also that I was able to remember a lot of the stories you had told me from families you had worked with or things that had happened in our own home that you could use in the book, and that's probably one of the best things that I contributed was just the fun of the stories, which is everybody's favorite part really.
Tim:Yeah, yeah, the stories were really important.
Roxanne:And we also know that it wasn't tell about two years later that we did the audio book and you were really resistant to doing the audio book. Why was that?
Tim:Well, I've never thought that I had the right vocabulary myself, or, you know, I've got the small town Utah accent and I didn't know how that would go over. I wanted a professional reader to read it and but the whole team was against that. They said no, tim, this is you, you have to be the one to read this book. And I finally agreed. I decided I'd go and give it a shot and maybe just do a few paragraphs, or maybe as a chapter, and see what the editing of that you know audio would be. And afterwards I thought you know, that's not so bad, let's go ahead and do it. And so we did it.
Tim:It was a couple of years after the book came out that we did the audio, and that was that turned out to be a really neat thing, because over the years, so many people who had read the book ended up calling in to Homer Bound, and I would often talk to many of these people and it was always surprising to me because these were parents that were readers of the book and usually listening to my voice and they would. They would call up, they'd hear my voice and I could immediately sense that they were feeling like they were talking to a star of some type. You know there's somebody that's really important to them, or that they, you know, they, they sets.
Roxanne:In some cases they'd say things like I am a fan of you, you know, or I can't remember some of the just that they were getting piece out, yeah, and they would say I need to talk to you because they had your voice in their ear for hours and hours. They felt like they knew you already and that was a fun way for you to get to interact with parents. Yeah, it was.
Tim:It was really fun and as I look back, actually I've been listening to the book again in preparation for the podcast. I thought I need to listen to it again and see, you know, what's changed in 10 years, or should I? Should I revise this book in all that time? And so I started listening to it again and, and I have to say that in my mind now it's actually more true now and those principles are more important now than they were 10 years ago.
Tim:And I think about all the changes that have happened over the last 10 years and it's been a rapid change in our, in our world, and we'll get into some of those things that are are different now, that have evolved, changed mental health issues etc. But it's we're we're working with a group right now, a pilot group of parents, in our first trustee parent coaching process that we're piloting right now and I'm you know we're coming up the curriculum as we go and a lot of it is curriculum we've developed over over time with Homeward Bound. But I'm I'm going back to the book and seeing how important the clarity of that message was and how it was not wishy washy, it was practical, it was hopeful, it was stated in a way that made people have confidence not just hope, but actual confidence that they could do what it said to do.
Roxanne:You know I was looking at the Amazon reviews and I realized that we're up to 266 reviews and that might not sound like a lot when you've got a bestseller, but for such a niche audience that's pretty dang good to get people there's. You know we've sold thousands and thousands of books but to get that many people to actually write about it and it's because parents care about other parents who have teens that struggle and you know they were all five star reviews except for two, and one of them was because there were 50 pages missing in the middle of the book. So not our fault.
Roxanne:And then the other one was a four star review from someone who said I loved it, but he just felt like he was going to give a four star review anyway. But one of the most helpful reviews. I think this was voted the most helpful. I just want to read that because it really, I think, also shouts out the other great books that have been written in our field. But it also talks about the important place that not by chance holds. And he said my wife and I have religiously followed the instruction of our child's therapist and have read all the books assigned.
Roxanne:As we have read each book, the materials keep getting better. This is the best one so far. I call it the capstone book because it fits as the last book of a series of books that all parents need to read. If a child has gone to treatment, either wilderness residential center or boarding school or both, your child cannot come home. Until you have read these books and have done the hard work to change Books I recommend in order Night in rusty armor, anatomy of peace, journey of the heroic parent, parallel process, leadership and self-deception, not by chance. And yes, you should read them all. I thought that was really interesting.
Tim:Yeah, his review was by far the most useful to other people looking at buying the book and I think he lists all these books are very pertinent to that niche of parent and he understood the importance of this transition book that was talking about what happens after treatment and so until not by chance came out, there really wasn't anything in that category.
Roxanne:You know, as we were finishing out last year 2022, we started to talk about wow, it's going to be 10 years next year. Should we redo the book? I mean, I'm always wanting a new cover, like let's spruce it up or do something fun. And so we got an editor, we started to work through it and read through it, but tell everybody why we decided not to do a revision.
Tim:Well, first of all, you know, I think that I think the main reason was is that, yes, there were a lot of things we could mention, like you know, the increase of depression and anxiety since then.
Tim:How the world had changed, how the world had really changed, you know, and that we could mention all those things, but the reality is, the principles in the book are still the same, even though there's been all this change. The principles are actually what's needed more now than ever to be applied, and so I honestly didn't want to lose the straightforward, hopefulness, you know, just very clear message that we had in, not by chance, and it was this unapologetic you can do this. This is exactly what to do. Is it really a kind of a blueprint? And it's still the same blueprint that we would encourage parents to read, and, in fact, we hope to write another book that's going to be more for a general audience. That is that same tone that gives parents that during a time. I think that's there's a lot of challenges out there.
Roxanne:You know, one of my favorite books of all time is called Gift from the Sea by Anne-Marie Olinberg, and I have read that book so many times and it was written in the 50s I believe. I think it was the mid 50s and the same thing. It just keeps getting another printing, another printing, with no revision, because it's such a timeless book. It's timeless principles, especially for American women. But I think the same holds true for parents of teens who struggle. The emotions are the same, the fears are the same, and to have the kind of help that, not by chance, gave parents by placing them in a leadership role in their home and their family and saying you can absolutely do this and nobody else can do it for you was what was most needed. That to be intentional, not to give up, not to think that you didn't have it in you, that all you could do is love your kid. You could love them and also parent them in ways that we're going to help them be successful after treatment.
Tim:You know, I've often thought about my upbringing and thought about my grandpa because I was compared to him so much. He was a tough love more tough than love probably kind of guy. But it was old fashioned kind of parenting for him. It got a little better. It definitely got better with my parents and then over time we learned a lot.
Tim:But I almost feel, like some of those older principles, that we sometimes confuse the issues. We confuse things by in some ways being so delicate and careful with, you know, a kid who's struggling, when we need to expect more of them. So it's like the opposite of what the trends of the world are saying to do. It's like, oh, let's soften everything for them so they can handle this better, instead of a little bit of old school stuff and I wouldn't say the book, not by chance, is old school. I think it's really a research based set of principles that's couched in stories that enable you to visualize actually what's going on between parents and teens and you can see yourself in it, you can see your child in it and it almost gives permission for things that seem outdated now.
Tim:And I've seen. I saw the same thing as we started our pilot group for these parents. One of the a couple of the principles that we talk about in the book and have taught families, you know, from the beginning of Homeward Bound, was that their parents need to step up and be leaders and they need to be at the top of the hierarchy, and I've talked about that in this podcast as well. But it's it's like and I noticed we had them review these, these groups, and give us scores and and all of that on the topics, and I noticed those topics were at the top of the reviews. It's almost like, oh good, somebody's saying something that makes sense, you know, instead of instead of hey, your, your kid has feelings and you need to, you know, you know, be almost, almost equals with them. There's just dancing around that, that whole concept.
Roxanne:You know it's funny. Just the other day we were kind of going through all the past podcast episodes and the one that has the most downloads is called this is your boundary, and it's in all caps, this, and I thought isn't that interesting? Parents are saying what, what should we do? Because we have been trained to be softer and and more equal and it is wonderful how the world has changed. But I think the pendulum has swung a little too far to where there's some kids that are wreaking havoc in their homes because the parents are scared to take over and.
Tim:Yeah, they need leaders, they still need leaders, and parents need permission to be the leaders, and I think that's why I didn't want to. I didn't want to update the philosophy, because the philosophy of not by chance is needed more than ever.
Roxanne:Well, so how has the world changed in 10 years? Though I mean what, what do these things address, Because I think a lot of people are going to think, wow, 2013,. Does this still fit for us? What's changed in those 10 years?
Tim:Boy. All of us could look back in the last 10 years and say the greatest amount of change has been the last five years really, and during that time we had COVID and and all that came with that the, the going home and the online school and actually the online therapy that really took off, where we started getting more and more comfortable with video therapy, tele therapy, things like that. But in the middle of all that, what has happened is there's been an increase in almost all mental health challenges, like anxiety and depression, substance use, addiction. Other new addictions have come in even more, like gaming and things like that school refusal, you know sort of this.
Tim:The other thing that shocks me that that's happened a lot just in the recent years has been a lot more hospitalizations, like parents would call, and the story seemed to be always the same a spiraling down in the mental health.
Tim:You know, the isolation, the social anxiety, the kind of pulling back and pulling in and getting online and and getting to a point where the depression and anxiety was so great that self harm took place. Suicide ideation was a big trigger that led to a hospitalization, or it was a suicide attempt led to a hospitalization and then it was okay, now what? And so these parents were calling with that story over and over and over again, and before that wasn't really the case. So it tells me that while there's been more probably more medication prescribed than ever before in the last 10 years there's been more therapy sessions, whether it be tele therapy or in person all of that has not stemmed the tide on these mental health challenges. It's continued to get worse, and so we need we need some, some new medicine, some new things here, and I think the new is really more of the going back to solid ground.
Roxanne:So talk a little bit about the response that you've had to the book over the 10 years.
Tim:So, if you remember, after the launch there in San Diego at the IECA conference and after that we sent out, I think, like five books to every for like 50 treatment programs, adolescent treatment programs to their clinical director, their therapy team and all of that. And we're thinking, okay, these therapists will read the book and they're going to say, oh, this is going to be good for our parents. Let's recommend the book. Well, what happened is they stuck, stuck it on the shelf and didn't give it to any parent. Well, one day this is probably two or three months later we're. We're thinking, well, maybe the book wasn't that good. We didn't really get hardly any response about the book. But we we get this call from a treatment program and and he's ordering a couple hundred books, and I'm like, wow, what's causing you? Did you read the book? And he's like, no, I haven't read the book yet. But one of our parents did so this parent son had graduated from the treatment program a couple of months beforehand then called the program and said the wheels are coming off, it's not going well and all the program could think to do was well, just, here's a book. These guys work with families after treatment. Maybe this book can help you.
Tim:Well, she devoured the book very, very quickly and within two or three or four days she called the program back up again and said every parent needs a copy of this book. And she was pretty influential with the program because they actually later had her start coming to their parent workshops every six months or so and she get up and tell everybody, read this book. And I had the privilege a couple years later to go to the same parent workshop with her and I met her. So she's in my mind she is the first one to really understand what was in that book and appreciate it. And I took a picture with her because she had her original copy of Not by Chance and it was filled with sticky notes and it was like veed out because she had so many sticky notes stuck in there. And so her visual. She'd hold it up to everybody and say, look, this is how important this book is, look at all these sticky notes I've taken. So that was the beginning of starting to believe okay, we have created something that's actually really helping parents, and I'd often be.
Tim:After that I was asked to come and speak at treatment programs and parent workshops and over time a lot of the families had read the book, and so when I'd come, they would treat me like I was, you know, a famous person, important person. They'd want me to sign their book, and that was always so odd to me because I was just a regular guy, but I just happened to have spent a lot of time in an area that mattered to them, and so when I put it in writing, it was exactly what they wanted to hear. And probably the thing that shocked me the most is when I started to hear that some of the parents were calling it the transition Bible from treatment to home. And this is your blueprint on how to do it. Very humbling and as I think about how did we get there with? Not by Chance, you know.
Tim:How did such a helpful book actually come to be? And it wasn't just me, it was. We had an amazing team of coaches that were as passionate about this, you know creating a better way to transition, help kids transition from a highly structured treatment program to home. We had this mission. We were driven by a mission to greatly improve outcomes after treatment. The philosophy we had is we're going to put everything in the book that we think might help a parent and not hold anything back. Just, you know, if they saw it as a blueprint for transition and they could take the book and actually just follow the book and be successful, that's what we wanted to have happen. So I think it was our philosophy, it was these amazing coaches, amazing families we'd learned so much from over time, the stories that we're able to bring in, that was so relatable to so many families and that it just made sense and they thought they could. They felt like, yeah, that's something I can do.
Roxanne:So talk, talk to me for a minute about what this is actually done for the field of teen treatment.
Tim:So so some things started to happen and change after the book came out. Before before we wrote the book, I remember feeling a little bit like we were fighting an uphill battle to change the change, the focus from you know a program, kind of feeling like you send your child to the program, we, we do all this work and kind of maybe do a little bit of work with the family, but ultimately we're going to send the child back home again and and it should work out. And so there was a lot of emphasis on what the treatment program did, and what the book did was, instead of just leaving the parent as a bystander waiting for their child to improve and then come home and pick it up, it was this shift that happened with we are. We need to have the parents engaged in the process at a deeper level. They need to be making progress all along the way and that they can create the context for them to come home and have better success. And so it it sort of brought the family back into focus as the, as the focus of treatment, not just the teen themselves. That's definitely one of the big things that started to change there. Not that there weren't other programs doing some parent work before that, but this sort of put it on par with the family work, on par with the individual work happening for the teen.
Tim:Another thing that we saw at Homer Bound after we'd worked with a few families, we started to see that there was a pattern that was happening and it was. It was predictable. At first it was like we had no idea how long that this transitional process would unfold, but over time we we started to see that there was some predictable kind of phases to transitioning home, and the first one was the excitement phase. You know, before they come home there was some transitional things happening in the program. There was another one when they first came home and it's called the honeymoon phase. And then we saw the testing phase always happened, whether it was a small testing that would happen or a much larger testing. We started to see that was a normal and natural process instead of oh no, treatment didn't work, here we go.
Tim:And so by putting it down, as we had a diagram in the book about these, these phases of transition and them seeing the testing phase, what it did was normalize that for parents and and that helped a lot it helped programs to say to themselves and to their families. Oh, I guess you know it's not all on us. There's still this this whole process is going to keep going even after our treatment process ends, and so there's a need for a process to help that happen. And so I'd say that that that helped everybody just calm down about what's normal to have happen, and I used to love to tell parents so when you get into the testing phase and it's getting tough, know that you're right on track, you're right where you need to be and it's going to happen. You can feel good about that.
Tim:I think the book also took this stigma that many parents who have teens in treatment where they start to think that maybe they're a bad parent. It really changed that because we never saw them that way. We saw them as some of the very best parents on planet Earth. But they had a tricky and challenging job that in many cases was a chronic stressor for years and years and years, since their child was very young, and in other cases it just hit them like a train, you know, and they didn't know what to do because what they'd done before that had worked, and so having a book like that just really normalized it for them and helped them realize that they're not a bad parent. They're a good parent. That just needed some extra support.
Roxanne:You know, another thing that I feel is really wonderful about how this book has affected the field is that we're no longer the lone voice Saying that transition needs to have attention. It's been fun to hear people talking in different treatment programs about home teams and Remembering back in the day when you and I were trying to come up with a name for the home team, which is this support network around each family, and people talk about it like that's just what it is. We're like, yeah, but we sat in our office and and played with those words, trying to figure out what would make Sense, what would feel warm, what would feel like they were cheering you on. Well, the home team would.
Roxanne:So it's fun to see those kinds of things come about and there are so many good books that have been written now and treatment programs all have Some kind of plan for transition, because parents have been educated and they come in from day one saying, what's your transition plan? We had a child in treatment and we went in the first day and said transition and they just got these big eyes and we're like, oh no, how did we pick a program that didn't have a plan for transition? And we were grateful that we had one, that we knew what to do. But it's just very gratifying, I'd say, to see how everybody understands that now and they are doing great work to make sure that their families have that support absolutely it.
Tim:Nothing's kind of funner and more affirming then when people just start using things that you had said in your book and now it's just normal language that everybody is using and and that tells you that your idea has taken root. It was a great feeling and people have adopted it and Built on it and made it into something really, really important in the field.
Roxanne:You're right, so let's just talk. Is you know we wrap this up? What? What's do you see in the future? How are you going to continue this mission with the not by chance book is? Is it going to continue to grow or is it just going to stay as it is?
Tim:The not by chance was just, even though it was vitally important To to a homeward bound and to be able to get the word out and things that we were doing out there. It's just part of a bigger mission that we have, which is to strengthen families really around the world and to give them these principles and and that seed was planted a long, long time ago in the very first part of homeward bound, probably now 18, 19 years ago, in the home of a family down in Florida that, after a three-day visit where I was teaching these principles and helping this childhood come back from wilderness, reintegrate back into the home and set up the family structure and help the parents start communicating with each other and getting on the same page and all the things that not by chance talks about. The father seen it as a. He said, first of all, if I would have known about you before this, we wouldn't have had to do wilderness. In his mind he thought it was that transformative to him but he followed that up with and he was a business minded person and in his mind he's like Every family that I know of, needs this, what we just received, even even families that don't have a kid coming back from treatment, and so as he took me back to the airport to fly back to Utah from Florida, he just kept pointing out all the little communities on each side of the road and he'd say, tim, every one of those homes that you can see out there, they need what you have given me. How are you going to get it to them? Well, so that little seed was planted a long, long time ago and it's been in the back of our mind. I think that's why we, in our mission statement, we talk about the world's families and I always thought that I'd cringe a little bit to say that, that I'd cringe a little bit to say that, that we'd Think that we could somehow, you know, reach that kind of number of families out there. But that's, that's kind of sprouted and grown. It's like having a vision board. You put the picture up on your wall and you look at that thing or that, that particular vision you have, and over time you, lo and behold, you end up getting that vision and I think that's where we're headed now.
Tim:So for the last year we've been working on the trusty app. It's. It's basically taking the principles from not by chance and homeward bound and and facilitating it through technology. We have recognized that when a child really struggles in a family, one of the ways you know that's happening is that as a parent, you don't feel as much trust. You don't feel confident in their judgment or you don't feel confident in their commitment or they're they're just their ability to step up in that way their integrity, and whether it be depression and anxiety, which feels like a mental health thing and it's not behavioral, but still your trust is diminished because of the struggles around those mental health issues. So really across the board, no matter what it is, trust is affected. So we thought that really is the core thing. It's not about transitioning a kid from treatment to home and all those principles, but it's really about the trust between parent and child and between parent and parent In order to have that family function in a way that they can raise these kids from Childhood to adulthood in a very complicated world. So the app is on its way.
Tim:We're into it About seven, eight months now that we've been developing it pretty hard. We're about ready to launch our beta testing. We just can't wait to get real users on it. I was working in in a home of a family recently and had them download just the first part of the app and, just by nature of having a real life situation, it felt like we were. We were, you know, practicing with real ammo now, not not just you know blanks or anything, and and immediately some of the weaknesses of the app In my mind became apparent.
Tim:And so that's the phase where, at right now, is getting real people to give us feedback on the app. That, uh, but we're totally excited it's, it's probably going to be fully out here in the next month or so. So, if you're interested, and one of the first things we're going to do is We've taken a piece of the trustee app and created a little web app that's all about measuring trust between a parent and a teenager and having both parents potentially do that measurement so they can see are they both Seeing, seeing that child in the same way? Do they have a different sense of trust between them? And then giving them a report on that so that they can take action and, uh, begin to improve trust In areas that that are very specific, so families can just go to trustee with two y's calm and find that assessment, that trust assessment that they can take there.
Roxanne:Is that correct?
Tim:Yes, it'll be there. We'll also probably have a specific website that we'll have later on, but but it will be on our homepage, on the trusteecom website and, by the way, it's free, so there's no charge for that. We we think you get a huge amount of value just by going in there and taking that assessment and it'll give you a lot of ideas of what you need to do to improve the trust and, and ultimately, all the content and the not by chance book honestly could be used to help you build trust. It's, the principles are going to be the same, and the benefit of the app is that it is it is because of technology. It is going to be almost like a third parent or a parent coach that never gets triggered, never forgets, doesn't pile on new consequences on top of old consequences because of emotions All of these things that we tend to do as parents. The app will help us improve ourselves as parents.
Roxanne:And all for the price of less than a pizza.
Tim:That's right.
Roxanne:Well, that's free. There's a big chunk of it that's free, yeah. And so that's pretty exciting to know that we can do that and that's how it's going to reach the world.
Tim:That's right.
Roxanne:That was one of the things that has always been hard for us is when we would talk to families that couldn't afford our services and we had nothing more than the book and the podcast. Now we have a tool that they can actually use that will help them be a better parent. It will call them on their things, it will keep what needs to be in front of them, in front of them at all times, and they'll be able to track how their child is improving in their health.
Tim:Yes, it is so exciting. I mean, this is a vision that's been around a long time and it's coming to fruition right now, and it's just so exciting. So I hope you'll take the trustee or the trust score, the trust evaluation, and then you'll be one of the first users that will invite to the app when it's ready. After the beta testing, we'll send you out notice that it's ready. You can go download it for free, as Roxanne said, and we hope, very early in the first quarter of next year, to have all of that connected to parental controls of apps and of the cell phone et cetera. That's kind of the next level, the thing that we're realizing.
Tim:One of the big changes that has happened in the world over the last 15 years has been the cell phone and the apps and the access to information, and this is a very novel approach to parental controls. It's not just you locking it down or you as a parent having to monitor and then take away the phone if it's overused or used in the wrong way. We want to make it so that it plays the bad cop role for you. So it'll just shut down the app, it'll just stop the control and then, when they get their chores done, and when the trust score is high enough and things are on track, then it will allow access to some of those things that you've decided. So, ultimately, as a parent, you're going to have the ultimate control over this, but it's going to automate some of the things that are hard for parents to do.
Roxanne:Well, we're very excited about what's happened and very grateful for all of those parents who have read Not by Chance, participated in the programs, the programs who have adopted it as part of their curriculum. We just can't thank you enough for what you have done and we have just been so grateful to be even a small part of it, and we're excited for the next phase of what's coming in intentional parenting.
Tim:I agree. I just have to echo what Roxanne said. We're so gratified for all the people who have promoted it. It's really been parent to parent In most cases. It was parents that actually promoted it into their treatment programs, who then adopted it and made it a core part of their whole parenting program. But it really was the parents, kind of this force of nature that made, Not by Chance, what it is. So thank you all for that. Thanks, Tim Parents. Your time is valuable and I'm grateful you spent some of it with us. What you're intentionally doing in your home life is inspiring and unmatched in its importance and long-term effects. Ask yourself, what am I going to do because of what I've learned today?