Raha is a 32 year old Harvard Law graduate, consultant, and a Bollywood cardio dance teacher in a interracial relationship. Raha joins me to chat what it's like to grow up in an immigrant household, navigate contrasting parenting styles, and manage expectations while embracing your unique identity. This episode is joy, hope, and a journey to finding your own path.
Read Raha's musings here.
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Raha is a 32 year old Harvard Law graduate, consultant, and a Bollywood cardio dance teacher in a interracial relationship. Raha joins me to chat what it's like to grow up in an immigrant household, navigate contrasting parenting styles, and manage expectations while embracing your unique identity. This episode is joy, hope, and a journey to finding your own path.
Read Raha's musings here.
BWWPS Book Club Form share your thoughts on what we're reading!
BWWPS Guest Application
Anonymous Suggestion/Request Box
DishaMazepa.com
SHOP: Disha Mazepa Designs on Etsy Code FESTIVE6 (buy 5 get 1 free)
Be sure to SUBSCRIBE & LEAVE US A REVIEW if you enjoyed the show.
Follow me on Instagram @Disha.Mazepa
Like the show on FB here.
Music by: Crexwell
Episodes available on iTunes, Spotify, Google Podcast, Stitcher, and Overcast.
Hi everyone, welcome back to, but what Will People Say? I'm your host, deesha Mazzuppa, and this is a South Asian Insuritial Relationship and Lifestyle podcast. Welcome back for another episode. Hi everyone, welcome back to the show. My guest this week is Raha Francis.
Speaker 1:She is 32 years old and the best way to describe her is probably a multi-passionate human being, which we've had plenty of those on the show. She's also in an interracial relationship and had a slightly different upbringing than you hear about around here, where she had parents that were very open to some of her ideas but then very not open to other things and kind of like a mixed bag. It's a little bit more middle ground. Overall, I think we talk more about just growing up and getting to a point where you start defining what your life should look like and what a life well-lived means to you. This is a really just joyful and positive and uplifting episode that isn't so heavy like some of my other ones. While I love getting into the weeds of things, I also just love talking about life and kind of getting into that more. I guess esoteric conversation of just like what is life and what does it mean for us to really live, and what is risk taking and all of that. I love kind of diving into those waters. This is one of those kind of episodes. It was a pleasure chatting with her.
Speaker 1:Her sub-stack is linked below if you want to read more of her musings and ramblings. But without further ado, here's Raha. Alrighty, everybody, we're here with Raha. Welcome to the show. Hi, disha, so happy to be here. Excited to have you here. Tell the people listening who you are.
Speaker 2:All right, so the name is Raha, I'm Raha, francis I'm, but I like to call a lawyer turned doodler. That's always a nice, nice look. But I'm 32 years old, just turned 32. I'm Canadian but I've lived in the States. So I went to the University of Toronto for undergrad, studied at Harvard Law School, for my JD, practiced intellectual property law, worked in the States, then moved into consulting and so I was in the business world for a bit and as of today, I'm doing some really fun stuff.
Speaker 2:I've been pursuing three separate threads of work. Part of it is doing career kind of crossroads coaching with adults who are going through a lot of what I had been going through when I pivoted careers. Part of it is working with youth in idea incubators to help nurture kind of students curiosity outside of school so that they can have the kind of support that I would have loved to have growing up. And thirdly, I do some kind of contract based legal strategy consulting for entrepreneurs. But yeah, I know, and I also, I also doodle and we can talk more about that about that later. But yeah, that's me. I currently live in Canada and it's been a fun ride.
Speaker 1:Awesome, so tell us a little bit about how you grew up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I looked back very fondly on my childhood and it's interesting because I feel like I was also a very frustrated little kid growing up. I don't know what part of that was the hormones of growing up or the immigrant experience but basically I was the youngest. I am the youngest of two, and I grew up in a household raised by two immigrant parents South Asian immigrants and we'd immigrated to Canada from Dubai, where I was originally born. But I was very young when we immigrated and I feel like my parents are two of the most fun people I've ever met. So there's that Like they're hilarious, they're two of the funniest people I've ever met. We laughed so much together.
Speaker 2:They're also really creative in their own ways, like my dad's a poet in his spare time and my mother ran a music band out of our basement since I was 10 years old, just because and she rounded up all the youths in our community and as I grew up, I see how unique that was to have two people that were so, yeah, tapped into their creativity as parents at the same time.
Speaker 2:These were the things that they did on the side. My dad worked with numbers, my mom had her own full-time job and grades were very much a thing, that were encouraged, and so, in a way, I grew up in a very traditional immigrant household and that way wasn't allowed to date. And I look back and I'm constantly surprised at the contrast between those two things. I didn't question a lot of the rules that I grew up with. Now I look back and I'm like, wow, yeah, those were a lot of rules to grow up with, but there was just a lot of love, and so it's only looking back that I started to unravel some of the thoughts that, like some of the things that I thought I should be doing versus the things that I was really kind of encouraged to do and allowed to do because that was how it was in our household. So, yeah, there's just a lot there. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's interesting because I feel like around here you hear a lot of two ends of the spectrum. There's the really really conservative, strict parents who harped on you for every little thing and told you to stick to the path or whatever. And then there's the other end of like oh, my parents really didn't care what I did and, like you know, we're very Americanized or Canadianized, whatever Westernized, and they didn't have any real like massive things they felt like they needed to work through, whereas you kind of have a little bit of both. And I feel like there's lots of people listening who probably fall in that space where it's like my parents were really, really great, but then they also really really weren't. And I think we all to some extent struggle with that because, like, our parents are only human, yes, but at the same time it's like what the fuck?
Speaker 2:Right, oh, totally, it's like part of it is okay. What flavor it's like today's flavor of the month that I'm going to use to like, mess up my kids? Right, because everyone's going to do it. Like what's my flavor going to be? But because, like you said, we are human.
Speaker 2:I think what's interesting, though, is these universal threads that we see, like the immigrant experience, like you know, the pressures that sometimes our parents might have felt and put on us as a result, and for me, that part's really interesting because it, you know, that part of it, which is, you know, the kind of immigrant pressures that a lot, of, a lot of South Asian folks, you know, growing up in North America, feel really speak to like just a lot of stuff that our parents had to go through.
Speaker 2:That I'm like you know what, like I would love to talk about that, because, until until recently, I just had to grow up just thinking that that was. Those were the thoughts, like you know, the kind of shoulds that came out of that. I just assumed that that's what I had to deal with. Until now I look around, I'm like, oh my God, so many of us, who you know might have experienced some of that, went through very similar stuff, and so that's how I kind of differentiate it. And you're right, part of it is just like the humanness of parenting. Like you know, you've experienced it. So yeah, yeah, totally.
Speaker 1:Are there any like moments or things that stand out to you about the way you grew up that you feel like were really impactful, whether that's positive or negative?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I feel very grateful for this. Like the moments that are most impactful for me are super positive, right, and I think that they're also the ones that have been, you know, so instrumental in making me kind of really fight for a very unique or a very like true to me definition of what a life well lived is, and it's also what's made me kind of rally against some of the things that didn't feel so great. So, yeah, it's funny thinking about it that way. But, for example, like when I, what I mentioned about my parents' creativity and the way they nurtured community was really beautiful to experience growing up, right, because you know, my parents had to immigrate from a different continent and they had to start this kind of neutral family from scratch, but there was so much love in that family. Like I remember when I went away from school, I would think back to like our dinner table conversations and just like how much we would talk about and engage with each other, Like a few things were very clear, like when my parents and my brother we all deeply cared about each other, right and two. We talked about things. We would even talk about our feelings in many ways, and like nothing was really off the table with my family, and that also came up in times where I would like kind of burst or, you know, any of us would kind of hit a wall. And I think there was and I think that's really important Thisha, like we were even talking before this podcast about what it means to not talk about what we're feeling, and in some ways, like I felt like that that was always a safe space with my family, which I'm very, very grateful for. So like, for example, if I were to ever kind of yeah, like have a huge outburst and they were to get mad at me, I knew they would kind of be listening for where that came from and then so there was that feeling of always kind of feeling heard and being able to have open conversation with my family.
Speaker 2:The second part was around community building because, like, yes, it was just the four of us. A lot of our relatives were far away, but, like my mom creating the music band, for example, was great, because that ended up being a huge part of my identity, and so through them, I was exposed to a really beautiful community, and it was a community that was kind of like cobbled together by people with like intersecting passions across different age groups, like across different countries. We had Sri Lankan folks, we had South Indian folks, north Indian folks, like folks from Pakistan who had all immigrated to Canada, who were singing in this like South Asian band and you know, from like 12 years old to like 50 years old. So in a way, it was like a very beautifully inclusive space that my parents fostered in our home and I really deeply remember those because like that's kind of the North Star that I use when I think about what do I want meaningful conversations to look like? What do I think about inclusive spaces? What should they look like? What does it mean to connect intentionally with others, you know?
Speaker 2:So that's been really beautiful for me and it's also helped me to reconcile with, or like helped me to grapple with, some aspects of like my immigrant identity that kind of rubbed me the wrong way or I didn't understand, and so some of that was, you know, I mentioned that I grew up kind of in a more traditional household in some ways and that, like my parents cared about the grades or it's like hey, okay, like what profession you want?
Speaker 2:We want stability for you. What profession do you, you know, are you going to take. That gives you that stability and you know, there's like be one of a few things, no matter what you do on the side and, looking back, it's interesting that they were so strict about some of the stuff when they were so open in other ways. But, like for me, I think, I think the feeling behind that was we really want you to feel stable and you know, we've come to this new country and we've had to like negotiate, like all these things, in order to get our own stability and give you the chance to go get it Like we love you and we want you to just see that stability through and I think it was like a form of love, you know, asking, like asking us to follow these kinds of steps. But yeah, I definitely grappled with that. But, to answer your question, it was mainly the positive stuff that I remember.
Speaker 1:For some reason, no, but that's a good thing, like that's what we want, because and it's nice to hear that that is also what a South Asian home can look like Because sometimes on this podcast it is just like quiet dinner table conversations not talking about our feelings, not feeling like our parents ever heard us when we spoke. Like that there is another version of that, because to some extent, for those of us who grew up in that way, we're like we didn't have that connection with our family. There was also the constant for lack of a better word gaslighting of like.
Speaker 1:this is how everyone is. This is how all Indian parents are Like. You're just being dramatic. All Indian parents do this to their kids. All Indian parents treat their kids like this and it's like literally until I became an adult, I believed that. Yeah, and so like there's a lot of like mental gymnastics you have to do to like break past it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's really interesting, right, because in a way, it is what a lot of South Asian parents do, like these rules and the shoulds, right, and it's also just like OK, even if that's the case, why Like? Why does that have to be the case? And what's interesting about, like, my memories is that the stuff that I loved was also, like I mentioned before, also what allowed me to have very strong conversations with myself or my family or really confront certain things, at least in my head, if I couldn't do it openly about these things that you talk about in South Asian parent child relationships, which I experienced too right, because, like, for example, the openness that we had, it came from a place where I feel like my parents like really listened to us and I think they just loved us and saw us, like tried to see us for who we are. Like OK, why do you feel this way? Like, let's at least think about that. But I feel like it's almost something that I've had to bring back and I wonder if you feel this as a parent. But it's almost like taking this out of the South Asian immigrant parent context for a second. I feel like the same things that we nurture in the homes that we grow.
Speaker 2:I feel like our next generations are going to come and use against us to push us even further, and I feel like that's something that I witnessed with my own parents. It was like they had such deep openness and care, and I saw them do it with us. I saw them do it with other people in our community too, and I feel like that openness is what I kind of ran with as I pushed against my parents when I was like, ok, what does it mean to create a life that feels meaningful? What does it mean to navigate instability in order to dive into what we love? And so, yeah, in a way, it's like that same thing that I'm very grateful for is what allowed me to really kind of call out for myself the things that didn't quite sit, but it's so real.
Speaker 2:And even then, I feel like there are certain generational things that around talking about our feelings, around mental health, that our generation and folks folks with the youngest or the younger generations of immigrant families are able to talk about that older generations just weren't, and so I run into that too, which is like we had a super open relationship growing up, but there's certain things that we didn't talk about that, I realized I really want to be able to talk about. So, yeah, I do feel very grateful, but it's also like dang, my parents have created a bit of like not a monster, but it's like parents. This is what you asked for, because if we're going to talk about things, we're really going to talk about them.
Speaker 1:Well, so, because I work with kids and my whole career has been with little toddlers and stuff, even though I don't have kids, I have an excessive amount of parenting advice that I keep to myself. But one of those things, based on what you're saying, that resonates is reminding parents that your job is not to hold on to them forever, and I always use the metaphor of a rock in that you need to be a rock, in that you are stable and safe and reliable and your kids will always know where to find you. But, just like in the ocean with the waves, you will mold and change over time and when your kids are ready, you're going to be the rock they push off of. So you need to be there so they can use you to push off of and launch themselves in whatever direction they want to go in, and you have to stay right where you are. You cannot follow them and you have to be there to support them, but you also have to be there for them to push off of.
Speaker 2:Totally yeah, and there is, like you know, and a corollary or like a similar way of saying the same thing is kind of like, if we ask ourselves what does love mean, then Love, in a way, doesn't necessarily mean like protecting our loved ones all the time or like being there to hold them as when they were babies. It's kind of like being there as a steady thing for them as they go out into a world that isn't guaranteed to protect them, and I think that's like a really tough thing because I think a lot of these shoulds and these protect you know, these like, do this, do that?
Speaker 2:come from a place of like I want you to be OK, but I think you're so right that it's that you can't, you can't really protect, and that's something I had to realize going out into the world afterwards and it's interesting, you know, that's also some like. That's also a perspective that I what you're calling out as a perspective that I realized I hadn't really looked into as much from a cultural place and it's something I realized when I met my partner. So my partner is like not South Asian, right, he's like white and it's very interesting comparing our families because his family is like super tight, so they see each other all the time. Unlike, you know, unlike my family, a lot of them are in the same city. My family's a bit spread apart, like all of us are indifferent, like my parents, me and my brother are in different cities, slash countries right now. But it's funny with his family. It's like they they see each other quite often, those who are in the same city like every week.
Speaker 2:You could say that they're almost like what I imagined Brown families to be that way and they're like constantly like coming together. But they did have a very different upbringing and I know that this is, you know, whether you're Western, you know you might be Western, being raised with a lot of sheds. You might be like Brown and be raised in a very lax way, but in his case it was very much like a very lissé fare way of being brought up by his parents, compared to mine, and it's just been very interesting because there is a lot of love in his family and there is a lot of coming together and like leaning on each other. But, like you said, it comes from a different comes in a different way, where there might have not been as many sheds thrown on them, but from that kind of love that you mentioned of just kind of being there no matter what. And it's something I navigate Like.
Speaker 2:It's something I honestly struggle with because in some ways I feel like these are two different ways of operating and there can be like toxic things in both. But then it's like as I decide what way I would like to create a life with my partner or, like you know, I would like to navigate sheds together for the future. It's interesting because I can see myself sometimes replicating my parents and it'll be like, well, we should be like this or we should do this, and my partner can be quite lissé fare and it's really interesting, just kind of seeing how I've internalized some of that not at the same degree as my family, but yeah, it's fascinating stuff. It's also interesting because he comes from a family of entrepreneurs, whereas I did it, and so that's another level around.
Speaker 2:You know, that's another kind of layer around the sheds, right, because it's like I've been used to being in families that like full of professors or folks who worked in like offices, and I remember him telling me he was like, yeah, the first day he worked in an office he was like, should I be here? Like no one that I've grown up with has even had this kind of relationships, like everyone was kind of an entrepreneur in this family, including with his parents, and so it's just very interesting seeing how, like, the way you've been raised or the kind of upbringings or defaults that you grew up with can really shape what you think is normal.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, totally. And, like you, we all hit that point where, if you've done enough reflection, you start noticing your parents creeping into you as you get older and, like you know, we all want to beat ourselves up for it, but it's like, of course, they raised you, like that's part of them that will never leave you, and like your parents aren't always going to be there and then suddenly, those parts of you are going to be the ones you probably like cherish a little bit, even if it's not perfect. And like I think, when it comes to like finding your path and following whatever that voice in your head is telling you to do, it's like you have to remember, like the people who love you the most, especially if you come from an immigrant household. Like you have to ask yourself, like, do they want what's best for you, or do they want what's best for them?
Speaker 1:Because a lot of especially immigrant families, operate from what's best for them, in that it makes them feel safe, knowing that you are secure. It makes them feel accomplished, that you have a prestigious job, like it doesn't serve them for you to become an entrepreneur or follow a path that's less stable or predictable, whereas, like kind of what, like how you're describing your significant other's family like they and I don't know if they do, but it sounds more like they function from what's best for my child, not what's best for me Like this might not be ideal for me and I don't want you to leave this town, I want you to live here forever.
Speaker 1:But like, if this is really what you want to do, then we'll be here if you need us.
Speaker 2:Totally, totally, and I think they're like beautiful things from both, from both kind of perspectives, for example but I think what we've experienced is often, has often included all the toxics.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, no for sure, which is me trying to be objective here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like.
Speaker 2:What does it even mean for us to like, for example, like I think what's so beautiful about the way I was raised and like you know, what my parents instilled in me was like this lovely understanding of like my culture and like community and being part of something bigger than us, right, but it's like, ok, what does it mean to have that? But also like piece of part, the stuff of like to your podcast idol, like what would people say? And like not caring so much when it comes to like our well-being, right, but like how do you? You know, it's like for me it's so beautiful to think about, like these kind of collectivist values that I've been taught, but in a healthy way, and I think that's what's been like.
Speaker 2:I think that's the hard part sometimes. It's like I love so much of this, but we don't have to do it that way, like we don't. And I think for me, a lot of that is the shoulds and it's the fears and it's and you're so right, like it is, it is coming from a place of. This is what I think like happiness would look like for us, and so just do it. And I think what's really beautiful there, disha, is like for me. I'm realizing that a lot of the beauty in a family relationship then becomes or in any relationship then becomes like what happens when the person you love tells you that they have a different way of like seeing you know success or safety. I think that's one thing. I think the other thing is like how much do we hang on to certain ideas because we're afraid to see that people we love get hurt, right? So I think those are.
Speaker 2:Those are two things Like. One is like how can we sometimes be scared to let our loved ones go out there into the world and fail and do stuff? And that's why we have all these shoulds, right. And it's like OK, yes, you want to go become like an artist, but like, what's that going to do for you? You're going to be in so much pain.
Speaker 2:But it's like OK, but like maybe let them go explore that, maybe in a way that feels safe. Ok, we can negotiate, they can negotiate that, but at the end of the day, you can't prevent them, you know, from getting hurt. So let them explore some things. And I think the other one is like what do you see as like, even if you have these fully formed ideas of how someone should be. It's like if someone comes to you and says, hey, that person who loves you, who you love, says, hey, this is not what I want. How do you react to that? Right, because, like you said, if someone decides I have a different way of being seen than you're telling me, is there an openness in the relationship to even navigate that?
Speaker 2:And I think that's really hard sometimes and I think what, like I know it's going to be hard for me with, like, it's hard for me with loved ones when that happens. But I know that like, and it's also hard because I think, like you said, part of growing up if we've done it in a healthy way, like if we've been raised in a healthy way, he's kind of letting go of everything that our parents have told us and going out and creating our own world, right, so what's interesting? When you were saying earlier that like, oh, it's interesting, rahad, that you've grown up in like this world where you have, like nurturing grandparents, yeah, like it's interesting in a way. But you know, I've I've also had to realize that like maturing is me going out into the world and being able to like drop or like question the things that didn't make sense for me and create my own meaning and that can feel really scary.
Speaker 2:Also, when I've been raised in a world that told me like, hey, do this, this, this, and you'll be fine. You know we love you, we see you the way you are, but the world might not treat you that way. So, like, just set yourself up. And it's been my own kind of journey to be like OK, you know, I like, like I'm going to take your love, I'm going to take that security that I feel and go negotiate it in my own way, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they're like the older I get, the more of a detachment there is in terms of like being, I guess, so fussed by it all of just like hey, like I and like accepting that I'm going to make decisions that are like, essentially what's best for me.
Speaker 1:When it came to like, for example, everyone is always asking, like how do you tell your parents you want to move in with your partner, I'm like just don't, if it's not worth it. Like it wasn't about their feelings or what they would think. I was like I'm moving in with my boyfriend at the time because I need to figure out if this is going to work. We want to take the next step in our relationship. I need to move on with my life. They're not going to be able to handle this information, so I'm just not going to give it to them and it doesn't change anything. It's not that I don't love them or that I'm disrespecting them. It's like it's just you are not capable of handling this information, so I'm not going to share it with you. It's kind of like when you have like a boss and employees and it's like this is not information you are privy to and like whatever Like, and there's no real like emotions attached to it in the sense that like and this is where I come across as a bit of an asshole to a lot of people is like me and my husband have this in common where we are like hyper objective and like for a lot of people who spend a lot of time worrying about what other people will think they're not objective because they're, you know, they're mitigating for emotions and feelings of other people, you know where, like if my parents were like, oh, like, how dare you not tell us you did that?
Speaker 1:I'm like because you couldn't handle it, because what you're doing right now is what you would have done then and I didn't have time for it, that's all. Yeah, you know, internally their brain is imploding at the sound of that. But, like, that's just why you don't have to lie, you don't have to like it. That's why, yeah, totally.
Speaker 2:And you know, it's something that I've been sitting with, like I like I've had certain friends who kind of have negotiated in a different way. They're kind of like you know what it's okay, I feel like I'm part of a fabric and it's like my loved ones and me they're part of that fabric and things aren't. You know, I'm going to make decisions based on not just me but the collective and I like that's beautiful for me, but like it's also like okay, that also. Like that opens up its own, can it? Like there's it's just Hold on, I'm going to pause that.
Speaker 1:Here's the thing like the collective mindset. Like you said, there's lots of positives, but that's a two way street, like it's not that. Oh, I don't want to tell my parents. I live with my husband or my boyfriend at the time. It's you haven't made it possible for me to tell you.
Speaker 2:That's the thing, right. So that's where. That's where it gets like you want a community.
Speaker 1:Everyone has to play their part, yeah.
Speaker 1:And my husband sorry, like my husband's family is probably a bit more like your significant others, in that like they all live right close to each other.
Speaker 1:Like right now I live with my in-laws and like they're all very like close and they talk to each other about stuff and like even when they have disagreements, it's like very quickly let go, like no one's holding grudges and stuff, and it's like they have a very tight knit community and we have our friends and family, like that. But everyone is in on a two way street. Like there, if you want me to tell you something or ask you to do something, or oh, we want to make plans to do this thing and we want to include everyone, it's like that involves everyone else also doing their part to make it work. Like if we're planning a camping trip and we know this person is not going to handle that, like we're going to go on this camping trip and I'm going to babysit them the whole time, you're not invited. Yeah, like we'll invite you next time, but like this is just not your thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally. I think there are two things here, like one is I think for me what's really important in a two way relationship is like are we talking about what we're actually talking about? And I think in both the western and eastern world, like like kind of relationships, this can go wrong right. Like when, when we have really like kind of very collectivist versus very individualist tropes, like I think with like super collectivist, like on the extreme, it can be like we're not, you know, you're just going to play a part, but you're not going to. You know, if you, if you have to, if you have a different feeling or whatever, that's not really going to be accounted for.
Speaker 2:And on, I think, on a very individualist level it can sometimes. People can sometimes say like, okay, yes, but you're talking about what you want, but how much? And I think it's also culture, like sometimes people define their sense of selves a bit more collectively than others. Like I can see that right. Like I can see someone being like yes, but like I make a decision slightly in a less individualistic level than you, rahaa, and I get that, but at the end of the day, for me it's like to your point about two way streets. For me, it's like what are we actually able to talk about when we have frustrations? Like is there an openness, whether in a very western or eastern way, to talk about, like how I have different, different opinions?
Speaker 2:and then there's a, there's a second. There's a second thing there which which I love, about how you said, like I don't always tell my parents things, which is like it's not necessarily like I'm not like I hate what you're doing. I think it's also just saying that like I for me, a large part was learning that I didn't have to get validation from my parents. Like that's a huge thing for me. So it's like okay, if I step away from like the question of, is what you're doing objectively right or wrong or whatever? How would I like to be? There's what's the question of like how much am I coming back to you to negotiate my worth through your eyes? And I think that's really impressive about the way you talk about like what you've been doing these days, because it it seems like like you're kind of saying, hey, I'm going to, you know, I'm not, I'm going to create like a world for myself where I'm not constantly negotiating that worth. And and I think that's really important because, like I think a lot of us, like a lot of us were raised with this desire, this need to get validation from others, and part of it's from our parents too, and I think for me, maturing has been like being like you know what I'm, I'm gonna like I'm just gonna do this and I'm gonna own it and I'm gonna like own everything that comes out of it too right. And yeah, I think that's a really beautiful thing because I think in a way, it's like kind of kind to our parents. It's saying you know, you don't need to put like all like I think you know the loving part. I think it can come from a loving place with parents who are like oh, you know, I want to protect them, I want everything to be right for them, I want them to like live this life, that like where they won't get hurt.
Speaker 2:But I think part of us going out into the world and doing things on our own is also saying you know, I'm I'm going to own what comes out of this in a way, and it's not going to fall back on you and I'm gonna like.
Speaker 2:But it's something I actively had to like. Honestly, being completely candid, like well, into my 30s I've had to. I had to like revisit in my head. It's like when I talk to my parents about stuff, and I think this is something that a lot of us run into right when we pursue different kinds of career paths or we pursue different kinds of paths in general from what we were raised to think was like safe or good. It's like how do we even talk about this with our family? And part of it is is not doing like talking about certain things just to protect ourselves. And part of it's also like, when we talk about things, even when I feel quite confident in the move and stuff and the thing I've done learning that I'm not doing this to like get that approval is has been huge for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and and every now and then you know we all fall back into that. It's not like it goes away overnight and we never screw up. It's just like not being hard on yourself when you do because, like you said, like you're gonna own it, you're gonna make this decision and you're gonna own it. And the more you can do that and the more you transfer that need for self worth away from your parents and into yourself, like then you just have a bit more control and confidence. Like you know, for me it was bringing home Michael and it's like I'm gonna own it, whatever the fallout here is, like it is my decision and I'm gonna handle it and I know I can handle it and we're just gonna go with that. And it's like steps like that were like you're gonna own it.
Speaker 1:And then for a lot of I feel, like South Asian parents, that control does stem from fear, right, like what if you don't become a doctor? Like you're gonna be homeless and it's like she's not gonna be homeless and until they see it they don't know how to let go. Like even the whole, like starting a business thing. Like my mom, if I had asked her this, like when I lived at home she would have been like absolutely not, you need to get a degree, you need to get a job, blah, blah blah. But like now she sees like initially she coped with it. Well, she's Michael's problem now. And if Michael says it's okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm like whatever you gotta do to cope, mom, whatever because it's like it's not attached to me, right, I'm very detached from all of it. I'm like, whatever you want to tell yourself, you do that I'm gonna come, I'm gonna be here doing my thing. And now we're, like the businesses, at a point of like reaching a little more stability, that, like you know, I can go in and like actually show her what numbers look like and what money and stability can look like, and not just that, but like what taking a risk and what pay off can look like. Now she's like, oh, okay, this is this cool thing you do. Like, oh, can you show me how to do that?
Speaker 1:And suddenly it's like now we're not so scared but like my daughter's not homeless. My daughter has, you know, she's able to pay for things. She's not like a complete disaster. It's like now I can be less controlling, but like I just needed to like give her her space to do that and just keep doing my thing and I'm like you'll eventually figure it out, mom, like I don't have time for this and it's like not letting that hold you back totally and it's see, that part's really interesting and I know we talked about this before we started the podcast.
Speaker 2:But, like these fears are hard and when you internalize them they can be pretty scary. Right, it's like I'm gonna go into the big bad world. Like you know, what do I do to stay afloat and you know, one shift has been shifting from what I might have been told not just my parents but you know, by others, but also by my parents about what I should do, like career, etc. Like this is what's gonna set you up. Like, don't worry, and as I've shifted away and I don't think it's like just us, right, like I you know I've been in law school, for example there are like tons of people that had followed a lots of other fear based like shoulds, to end up in places where they were miserable not saying that everyone is, but a lot of them were and I think a lot of us, like society throws a bunch of shoulds on us, right. So it's like every day, like in the media, like as women were thrown tons of shoulds, and for me, it's like shifting from, especially with my career, like shifting towards from. Okay, this is what I should do to. Like this is what I'm actually interested in and I'm gonna carve out for myself, felt really lovely, and but then it's funny because then the fears suddenly became kind of my own. It's kind of like, okay, now that I'm doing something that I really love, what does it mean to own that? And, in a way, like you said, building out a career for myself that I really love, just it's just like it's taken time and when you get to a place like it's taken pivots, multiple pivots over a decade for me and it's gonna constantly be pivots I'm realizing that that's the beauty of it, and I guess that's what I was sitting with initially, which was, like, as I move from like other people's definitions of what I should do to my own, there can also be fears there of like, of like. Is this, you know, like, how does this work? Like how does this speak to my own identity? Or you know how much am I tying my worth to this thing that I'm doing that I really love? And I love something you mentioned before we started the podcast, which was that like the detachment that you have, like that you that you have, even with these relationships with your parents or whatever, is something that you have to bring into everything that you're passionate about.
Speaker 2:I feel right Like it's like now that I'm tied, like now that I'm able to create these worlds for myself, whether in my career, relationships, et cetera it doesn't mean that we figured everything out right, like we're constantly gonna be hacking at things, and I think that it's so sweet of our parents to like say, hey, if you do this thing, you'll figure it out. Nope, like that wasn't it. But also, as we build other things, we're realizing that there's no one end goal where you feel completely like I got this, and I feel like that's a really beautiful feeling to confront too that it's like not a matter of like. Oh, if this isn't the thing, then what is? And more a matter of like? What does it mean to lean into that uncertainty and explore it Like? I feel like that's a huge shift for me that I've been facing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and like you know really figuring out. And here's the thing, like you're never really gonna figure out exactly what you want and the only way you can come close is like try new things. But like also, like for me the detachment comes from, like when I look at what society has told me, this is what your life should look like, whether it's from my parents or watching TV. Right, I didn't want that. Like the whole, like the nine to five, then you work till you retire and then you can travel and then you just have this job forever. I was like the thought of that is so boring and for me it's like I thrive at this point, very far outside my comfort, so that's almost my comfort.
Speaker 1:So now, like if things get too stable and consistent, I get bored and I'm like something's gotta change, we gotta stir the pot somewhere, like and sure, maybe that's my own anxiety, but like part of it is like I want a more colorful life than that.
Speaker 1:I want a life where maybe I have four or five careers or maybe I have this business right now and then I start a different business later and like I sell this one or I just shut it down because I don't wanna do it anymore and like not holding on to everything, like it is somehow a direct reflection of who I am. If anything, I hold on to people in my life like that, like I very much am, like I wanna surround myself with people who help me reflect the kind of person I wanna be. I wanna be in rooms full of people that are smarter than me. I wanna talk to people who have different ideas than me, who completely disagree with what I believe in, like I always am seeking out that thing and I know that I won't get that just following like a beaten path.
Speaker 2:Totally, and a lot of that's like instinct, right, like? I'm very similar to you in that way where it's like okay, here are the worlds that are put out for you, you should enjoy this. Why, like? Why would I enjoy this? This seems miserable. These are the instincts that I've had and for me, those instincts have led me down like paths, whether through you know, in my personal, like you said, whether, like, like let's take career, for example they've led me down paths that have been really fulfilling to me and really interesting and much more tied into my intuitions.
Speaker 2:And I think that I feel like that's kind of that's part of it, right, like? I think part of it is allowing ourselves to just like tap into those intuitions of like, what does it mean to be in the present, to be like doing things that are exciting to us, working on things that are really lovely, and it's almost like I sometimes might feel like I love your detachment that you talk about with the business stuff, cause, like, sometimes I almost feel like overwhelmed by how much, like I care about it's not even like necessary. To be honest, it's not even necessarily like the causes that I'm passionate about, which I'm very passionate about. It's about creating this kind of impact that feels so meaningful to me and it's like, like you know, even if it's like the stirring the pot, it's like going out there and doing the thing you know and like trying those things out, like I almost get overwhelmed by how, how much of an opportunity we have to go out there and use our instincts to do something really beautiful. And it's like, oh my God, there's so much to do in this life and I don't know if you ever feel that way.
Speaker 2:I'm just like cause. Imagine if there's like, if there's like 10 businesses that you create, there are like 10 businesses that you could create, right, and it can almost feel like for me, sometimes overwhelming, and that's in a beautiful way. And that's when I realized that if there's just like it's just such a privilege to go out there, pay attention to our instincts, try things out, build intentionally, try to your point, try and surround ourselves with people that like push us Like, I think like, and that comes with its own share of challenges and things Like the more we push ourselves into ambiguity and newness, the more we can learn what we don't know. And like applying ways that we've never done before. But like the scarier that can feel, and I wonder if for you, like some of your pivots have felt scarier and scarier, or if it's always just been like no, whatever, we got this.
Speaker 1:I mean they're always scary. It's never not scary, but it's always. I have a really bizarre, like deep seated, like feeling of like one everything's gonna work out, like if you just there are points where, like I feel myself turning into a control freak and I'm like panicking and I'm freaking out and I'm calling everyone I can, I'm doing as much as I can, but I always take a point to like step back and it's like okay, have you done everything you could? Like shit's hitting the fan. Yes, you have. Well, then there's nothing left to do and you're just gonna let the universe do its thing and learning.
Speaker 1:It's like a very active like back and forth of like do what you can control. Cause here's the thing, like there's a lot of like woo, woo bullshit out there where people are like we're just gonna manifest it and I'm like what you're gonna think about it? Like you have to do something. So for me it's like do what you can and that's the control you have. And then once you know like you have tried your best, you have given it a hundred percent and you've done whatever you could. Now it's easy to let go because you're not just like flailing around in the wind. It's like you have an anchor right. You planted these seeds, you did this thing. Now you just have to, like, wait it out and, like I think there's so much, especially young people nowadays, I feel like, have been sold like this this get rich quick. Overnight success going viral, success tomorrow, blah, blah, blah. And when they it doesn't happen, they wanna either quit or they start to panic.
Speaker 1:And I'm like for me it's easy to be detached because I think of everything in a long game sense, like I don't think about this podcast being like successful right now, like in some sense it's successful and that we've made an impact. There's lots of people listening who really gain something.
Speaker 1:But, I'm looking at this podcast and I'm probably gonna make money on it in 10 years. So when you think about a long game, it's easy to detach because you like think about your life in the last 10 years, think about a problem you had that in the moment felt like your world was coming down. Oh my God, this is so terrible. Oh my God, I don't wanna do this anymore. Oh my God, I don't know what I want in life. And now you step back and, looking back, you're like it's fine, it's not that big of a deal, and once you've done enough.
Speaker 1:It's easy to just be like it'll be fine. We're just gonna let it. Let the pieces fall where they may.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great. Like I thought that is a beautifully scary thing, I gotta say. But okay, on the one hand, I guess with your podcast I'm sure you enjoy it, right, so it's like I'm not gonna go do this thing. That seems super terrible and there are parts of it, that of everything that we love and that creates impact in a way that we care about that aren't super enjoyable. Right, we were talking about logistics pains before right.
Speaker 2:So it's like, oh, okay, now I have to own all this, like, okay, sure, but you love it and you love the impact that comes from it and it ties into your instincts, which is a really beautiful thing. And then, in terms of all the inherent kind of like fears that might crop up with building something, I hear you it's like, hey, I'm gonna play the long game with this, and it's really easy to do something like that when you do kind of like feel compelled to keep making those little steps right, and then it's just that big picture perspective of I'm just gonna keep doing this and see this through the fear part of it which I like okay, this is the part that scares me when I talk, when I'm talking. Fear is this, and I don't know how you feel about this, but like I look at myself and I like look at how many pivots I've made in the past like decade or so into a world that feels so right for me. And it's not just pivots, it's like a compounding effect, like you know.
Speaker 1:Every time you do it, it gets a little bit easier. You have a little more information Now. You can make a better decision later.
Speaker 2:Like yeah, yeah, and it's also just like a lot like I've been very privileged to like, like you said, if you're someone who's going out into the world being like what can I learn? You get all these skills that you can put together when you harness your instincts in a way that just feels like you're coming home to yourself, which is like the most beautiful thing. That, for me, is so inherently scary, though, because I'm like, dang, what am I gonna be 10 years from now If, like, if this things have compounded and like changed beyond what I could have even predicted right so far. And it's funny because it's like I feel like you're a planner too, like I feel like you're kind of ruthless and like I gotta do X, y, z right. And it's almost two very opposite things of like I'm gonna plan and execute and do the thing that I need to do, and I'm also, if I'm doing this right, gonna be in a place that I couldn't have even predicted for myself, because that's really how, what it means to kind of embrace the present right I feel like that is that scares me so much in the most beautiful way, but it's a pretty awesome thing and I think that like I mean like taking this like fully full circle to what we were saying with parenting and growing up.
Speaker 2:It's like I felt so lucky to grow up in a very loving environment, and but I also like having grappled with all these things and trying to figure out what is Raha and what is the world she wants to create, which I think anyone should be doing, like any human on this planet should be doing. It's really beautiful to see how, like paying attention to our instincts can lead us down these paths that we can't even predict. Like you know. It's like, oh you like, even if I wanted to have this checklist for what I want in my life, like the most beautiful life will probably be on what I can imagine. So that's, that's trippy to me and it's been a really kind of liberating feeling as I've been trying to create a world that makes sense to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, and a lot of people like they prefer a path of predictability and stability and consistency and don't get me wrong, I have that in my life, in the sense that I personally think the person you spend your life with is probably the most important decision you'll ever make, because that will determine so many outcomes for you, and like, so I have that right. I have a partner who is extremely reliable and consistent. I can always go to him when I need something. He'll always have my back and I'll always have his back. Like if Michael woke up tomorrow and started telling everyone the sky's purple, even though the fucking sky is blue, I will be like, yeah, you know what Sky's purple, let's go with that. Like I will have your back, no matter how fucking dumb you sound. And it's like because it's like this is what you believe in right and you stand by what you believe in and this is what feels right to you right now. Then fine, and my husband goes through a lot of phases. The running joke is like I am Michael's longest phase because, like he constantly has a new hobby and I realize like that's where the ability to just let go for me stems from his realizing Like he is someone who has just shown over and over that like you can just try new stuff and you can do all these things and like it'll be fun.
Speaker 1:Dude, my father-in-law yesterday we were like chatting and I was working on like packing orders and stuff and he's like I gotta do something. I think I'm gonna can. He's like how hard is it to start an Etsy shop? Like not really that hard. He's like maybe I'll do that. The guy is 75, okay, this is like you wanna talk about a life well-lived. Like went from professional drag racer before he went to college. Kind of got a master's degree, did a job but then started his own like auto shop, started a balloon company with his best friend. Like has really lived a life with a lot of paths, and having in-laws like that who are both very entrepreneurial has shown that like it's gonna be fine. Like just as long as you're doing the work.
Speaker 1:Because here's the thing I think a lot of people sell risk and uncertainty because they're not doing the work. Like when you're on the side of entrepreneurship, like you watch people start businesses and every now and then you get to be on the fly, on the wall of how they run their little thing they've done and you're like of course this is a disaster. You couldn't even do the basics right. You couldn't do like the nitty gritty, boring part, right, yeah. And you're wondering why you're not making money. I'm like listen, I'm not gonna screw up, because I at least do the fucking work. Because and you realize that's how people have sold uncertainty, it's they wanna be an overnight success.
Speaker 1:They wanna, you know, say they just like, oh, like we have this God complex, we build around CEOs Like they have something we don't, and when you talk to not even that many of them I've only talked to a few I'm like you're just a regular person, yeah, and you're willing to do the work and that's why you're successful and part of it is literally not quitting longer than everyone else. Having a four year old brown girl podcast, I'm like a senior fucking citizen, because most people quit before they hit episode 10.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's the other thing, right, like, it's like contrast between like. For me, I feel like doing things and like creating and creating paths for ourselves can feel like this whole new thing. But there's this sense of consistency in following your intuition and like building in a way that makes sense. That, for me, I've never questioned and I totally relate to your feeling of like, follow through, whatever, like when it comes to what I care about and seeing it through in a way that makes sense, like I have no doubts, like you know, it's just like let's do this. And I think when you combine that with a desire to really look into what you care about or build in a way that feels intentional, it's not just a feeling of follow through, it's a feeling of like this can withstand a lot of nonsense. Yeah, like, okay, throw it at me, like what's and you were talking about this with your business too right, like, throw it at me, like what's going to come at me. It's just this feeling of like for me, it's like, first of all, it's maybe it's a sense of passion, but it's a sense of resolve for me, of like I want to see this through and what I've seen is like, similar to your podcast, the threads that I've continued, like that, you know, continued constantly over my life and built on, like as I feel like my career is gone.
Speaker 2:It can go in different ways, but there's also a sense of consistency I said earlier, a sense of like coming home to it, of it's just like the more I act in you know, in line or build in line with what felt right and not just what other people are telling me to do, because this is what you should do, whether it's the stable job or like be the next Elon Musk overnight.
Speaker 2:Right, like when you cut past the hype and the validation because, like for me, a lot of what we do, whether you know it's our parents shirts or society shirts, or like the entrepreneur shirts out there those are often like following them is in order to get the validation of these, of these other people. And I feel like when we can, like when I've learned to cut past that noise and ask, like what's the way I want to build and apply, like my own strategic thinking and my own sense of resolve to that, it's been really beautiful and consistent in its own way and really makes me feel like I'm coming home, along with being like bringing all these things that I could never have expected, because there is no blueprint for following our own path, and I feel like it's those two things that are really interesting. Like I wonder, like, did you expect yourself to be building the way you are, like seven to 10 years ago?
Speaker 2:Oh no, I was it's not bizarre, right what's it was like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was going to like be an OT and like here's the thing Like I worked, I had a job Like when I was in college. I would have told you like I want to live in Manhattan. I want to be an OT, I'm going to be making money, I'm going to be, you know, out of my parents house, which was a very single minded focus I had.
Speaker 2:Fair enough.
Speaker 1:And you know, and I did all of those things, and I got there and I was like this is all right, yeah, and I was like I feel like I could do more than this, because I was like I'm only 20 at that point.
Speaker 1:I was like 24 or 25 when I hit that, yeah, and I was like, well, I need to go find a sledgehammer and knock something down and build something else because I'm bored. And I have, like I will say, like I have a delusional sense of like self confidence where I'm like I literally look at things and I'm like I could do that, like I don't. There are very few things, except like maybe jumping out of an airplane where I'll be like I could do that. I could do it better than them. Because I've realized and we talked about this before where I look at things and I realize because I'm a brown girl and I have, like you, these parents who put all this pressure on me that like anything less than a hundred was a failure.
Speaker 1:Right that I put so much pressure on myself and what I call it in my head, the way I reframe it is like use your unfair advantage, and for me it's my bar is so fucking high that my subpar is everyone else's above average, and that is my unfair advantage is that the way I do things, everything is intentional. Like you look at my shop, people are like oh, like you're so lucky people like the stuff you buy. I'm like no bitch. I've done so much market research and there's so many numbers to back up everything I've made that I already know how this is going to go. I can give you a timeline and how long it's going to take for me to turn that product into a best seller, how long it's going to take to get into this many carts and how I'm going to turn those people into buyers.
Speaker 1:Everything is intentional but people want to sell. Like you know this idea that like, oh, I just made this thing and people really loved it and they just responded so well to it. And I'm like no bitch, that's not how it works. You want to do it over and over again. It's not that risky. There's still some risk, like I can't factor everything in, but it's like, just do the work.
Speaker 1:And do it intentionally and I will always do the work because that's where my brown kid instincts have always been. There it's. I don't need sometimes like someone has to tell me to quit because I'm like you're doing too much and I'm like I should quit. I should step back right now, because other people look at me and they think I'm like senile and I'm like no, you've just never been pushed this hard that your bar has been set. Yes, some will say this is my whatever trauma bullshit response, but in my head I'm like this is my unfair advantage. It's going to take so much more for me to quit this podcast than those people who quit before episode 10 because they don't know what it's like to put the work in like I do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's interesting. I feel like I come to the same conclusion, but not with the same reasoning.
Speaker 1:Everyone has their thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but like I feel like no, but I think it is, it is real, like you need to do the work, even especially in the things like when you're building at something with your own path, like it's like that contrast of it's going to be very much my own thing, but I've got to see it through and I've got to do it right. It's not like you choose your flavor of the month and then you choose different flavor the next day. And it's interesting with me that like it's it's been that and this is going to sound weird, but like I'm so grateful for the skills that I've acquired, whether at law school or in like business afterwards or working with entrepreneurs afterwards, like those have all kind of fit together in order to help, support and inform, like the path that I'm taking now, although my intuitions, I feel like, have been the mural Uno for that, for that, to inform that. But in the end it does take a lot of hard work and follow through to see, to see these things through. And for me, though I think it, going back to what you said earlier, it was that question of is there more? And I feel like that's what's kind of just informed, kind of my ruthlessness, as you said. I was pretty ruthless, like when it came to the grades and stuff like that that I was told to do, and maybe that is a bit of like a brown good response, right Of like, okay, you're going to set the bar here, parents, like I'm going to do that for you and for me.
Speaker 2:At the time and afterwards there is that strong sense of discipline that I've been able to apply to everything I've done since then. Or I guess, just a bar, but like it's also I feel like you mentioned this too it's also that very like. It's that feeling in my head of is there more that? I? That's always been at the back, and I don't just I don't just mean like, is there more like? Is there like? It's always seeking, seeking, seeking, like? We can have that too. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about like, is there more meaning than I'm being sold?
Speaker 1:in this yeah, that's it right, the existential dread setting in there.
Speaker 2:Well, no, it's kind of what we're rather like, you know, maybe when you tell me like this is what your career should be, and I do it, and I get it.
Speaker 1:And it's like.
Speaker 2:For me it was like, is there more? And I and I like, and I trust that instinct, which was like, can I create impact in a way that's more aligned with my strengths? And honestly, I think that's like a business person instinct too, of like, listen, like I could be doing something that's much more me, and then I'd be like very good at it, and it could be a combination of things and it's not this cookie cutter thing that's being sold to me. Some people can be great at it. That's good for them, but for me, like and I think it's similar for you when you're like a multi passionate person or you have skills that go in different ways for me, I was like like is there more than just this very traditional cookie cutter thing that I'm being sold because it's prestigious, right, even with relationships.
Speaker 2:When we talk about relationships, it's like, yeah, you know, like on the kind of end of the spectrum one end of the spectrum, have like that arranged marriage or whatever, and just be happy.
Speaker 2:On the other end of the spectrum, find your prince charming overnight and like, just be happy and there are no issues, and it's just like is the and like put, and both ends of the spectrum. Like put that up on like social media, and you're like super happy and everyone's supposed to be okay with it, because that's how our society does revolve, western or Eastern, around this idea that you put up this facade about the kind of relationship you're in and you're super happy and everyone's supposed to be like like comment, subscribe, right. But like for me it was like is there more there? Like what does it mean to really connect with someone? To your point earlier about connecting with people, and like having them disagree with you, loving someone who you don't always understand, who brings out a very different side in you, right, like there's a lot of discomfort behind that. But for me it was like I wanted, like I want that I want to be.
Speaker 1:There's joy in it too.
Speaker 2:There's so much joy, and it's partly because you let let go of these cookie cutter ideas of how you have to do things, and so it was also from a like is there more? And you know, like, I think that's a. It's a very beautiful thing, right, and I think it's also what's seen me through on my path of like wanting to create something that feels unique, but also wanting to see it through.
Speaker 2:It's like can I create something really beautiful? Or rather like can I see through, see this passion, see these instincts through? You know like it's? I think it's a very beautiful thing, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I think part of where that, because I think everyone asks themselves is there more? I don't think anyone just like ignores that voice, but I think a lot of people try really hard and go out of their way and I think for me it has always been tuning out the noise.
Speaker 1:It's like just turn it off, like turn off the Netflix and the YouTube and the podcasts and the Instagram and like yeah first of all, it cuts out all the noise in what people are trying to sell you, because everyone's trying to sell you something, right, yes. But also it lets that that inner voice, I guess of like is there more? Not just get louder, but switch to there is more. Here's a few pointers. Yes, and it's like you know, and that's kind of like, if you're in the dark woods, the light in the random corner, do you follow it and get eaten by a tiger, or do you follow it and find something no one else saw?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And you can't hear that until you start really like almost like detoxing from like all the stuff you've been selling yourself and listening to you and like I think that for me, has always been the beauty of podcasts is trying to.
Speaker 1:You know, I always say like part of why I chose podcasting as like the form of media was, I always look to them as like if you're in a place where you don't have the voices in your head or you aren't surrounded by the people telling you the things you need to hear, you can put yourself in the room with the people on a podcast, right Like you, you're listening to the show and you're here in the room with us and now you're surrounded by people who are maybe saying the things you might want to hear or need to hear, or are living a different kind of life than you, and that there is a path towards it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, oh, my God, that's right. Like that's and that's a beautiful, like that's the journey of life, like I feel, like it's like asking is there more in our world? Because what we're really asking, like you said, is who, what is the world that I want to create? And it requires you to look inwards because it's like if, if what we're being told, which is like the lowest common denominator, which everyone's being told, is not it, then what is it? And, like you said, it requires looking inwards and it's a very lonely journey and, like you said, like that's probably why a lot of people don't, like a lot of us are so scared to do it, and that's why it's continue continually feel scary for me.
Speaker 2:And I think it's totally fine for it to feel scary, because it means that we're doing the right work and it means you're willing to go in on that journey and ask like, what is it that I really want?
Speaker 2:And and it's beautiful because it's really what, like everything you're, everything you're saying, it's what can actually make us, lead us to feel the sense of belonging that we really seek, because it asks us, like, it makes us ask, like what does it mean to live intentionally, surround ourselves by the kinds of decisions, people, worlds that actually, like, make us come alive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like it's just such an yeah. It's so interesting that, in order to come home to ourselves and feel lighter, we have to like, yeah, part and like give things up to like, in order to feel belonging, we have to feel alone, you know, and and it's weird because, like some of this has felt like such big pivots for me and at the same time, now I feel lighter than I ever had to feel because, to your point, I'm also choosing to carry less of the baggage that Just meant that I was being really hard on myself, and so, you know, like I think I think it's like all these contrasts that are Really beautiful and and I think like we're very lucky to be exploring them, but it does take that discomfort.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, definitely. And like here's the thing like most people will be happy With whatever idea of happiness they've been sold right. Like they'll be happy with their job and their retirement plan and their white picket and there is joy in that, I'm not Denying it. It's just the highs and lows are much more middle ground and stable and consistent. But when you jump out of that and you pursue these other things and you listen to that voice, the highs are really high, a high that you will never get if you stay in that safety zone.
Speaker 1:But the lows are also really low, so the fluctuations are more dramatic. But but the thing is that high that you get that full body like visceral yes to something. You will never feel that if you stay in that comfort zone of stability and can and like predictability.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's interesting. I actually disagree with that. Like I actually think that the lows of Not and maybe we're saying the same, we're probably saying the same thing it's two different ways. But like I think that, well, for one, like with the picket fun stuff, like I don't actually know right, like I can't actually know, by the Decision someone makes if they're happy or not. But, to your point, it's more about like, what are we talking about here? How are we able to talk about our feelings? How seen do we feel?
Speaker 2:You know, like that, that stuff, or how am I able to navigate intentionally that can really Show whether we're you know, whether people are doing able to do what they want or being you know how damn by here. But like what, I think that you know that all comes down to living intentionally right, and I feel that when we don't, I actually don't think. I think that the lows are much lower. I think that it's actually very scary, and I for me, that's the reason why it was very easy for me to say no to things, because it felt very what I'm doing is really scary, but staying in a world where I couldn't Articulate and try to navigate, creating the impact that I wanted to do, even though it felt so unknown at the time, or being able to navigate meaningful Relationships, even though it means talking about scary things like that felt way scarier and much more below than this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a different. It's a different type of scary because, I agree, right, the idea of staying right where I was or not changing anything was horrifying. But what I say, the lows are lows in that, like because you took the risk. The higher you jump, the harder you fall.
Speaker 1:So when, yeah, when you're up there, like, for example, when shit hits the fan. Yeah, it is. It is a kind of low that other people will never understand. But every time you pull out of it, you know that when you get back to that point because inevitably you will you will pull yourself back out of it.
Speaker 2:So, right, I think, and you know, I feel like the way that that low feels lower, is it? Sometimes it's like a low that we never understood, because we're going into new territory and it's isolating, because no one understands what you're going through, and that's what makes?
Speaker 2:it such a low Totally, and yeah, totally. And I think you know sometimes that sometimes something I tell myself is like and I think this is there's a friend at Pooja who had written this one that I really loved and she says, like you know something you you tell yourself when you're navigating new things and you're experiencing new kinds of risks is, or You're experiencing a new kind of like challenge that you never had to deal with is like you're in the big leagues. Now You're, we're playing in the big leagues, and it doesn't mean compared to other people. It just means for me, compared to myself in the past, and that's the only person that I'm comparing myself to you. And it's like, yeah, this is a much bigger step than you've had to take before and so good that you're like feeling these things or exploring these things, and I think that it's.
Speaker 2:It's a really yeah, and I like I think there's some logical ways to grapple with it too, which are like the more risks that I took that were in line with my intuition, like the cooler my life has been, so let's, let's run with that. And also like I think you'd mentioned this before and it might have been Before the podcast, but it's like also a shift in mindset from. It's not this outcome that I'm seeking, right, like it's this Desire to lean into these new things and like this new world and explore things and try new things and like do things we didn't even think we were capable of and, at the end of the day, it's almost like an anti fragility, right. It's like it's not about making sure that X doesn't happen, it's a. It's about learning from everything and I look back at, like, how my life has changed with that mindset shift or how, like, how beautiful my life has been and like with career stuff, with relationships stuff, everything, and it's, yeah, it's, it's almost like it's like hugging the scariness, yeah, it's really beautiful.
Speaker 1:Literally like that feeling right, that right before you're gonna take the leap at standing on the edge like you were, you're so scared the first couple times you do something like that we're just like you want to dip your toe in the water, but really you just need someone to push you off because you need to jump, like now. And Then you're like, oh shit, that was scary, but like you landed. Maybe you fell on your face but you picked yourself up and then you do it again, and then you do it again and eventually you start climbing to a higher ledge.
Speaker 1:Yes and I know this is a terrible metaphor, but like, like. But then suddenly, because you've done it so many times, that ledge, instead of being scary, feels exciting. You start looking for the ledges, yeah, and you start looking for where can I take a leap to find something that no one else has found yet? Or that.
Speaker 1:I at least haven't found, because I sort of look at it is like when people ask me like, oh, like, how do you know?
Speaker 1:Like this is gonna work out, I'm like, well, this is my first time doing this life, so I'm not sure, but we're gonna find out, and that's how I look at it is like I don't know, we're just gonna. I get excited at the idea of doing something for the first time Because I don't know that there's many people that could right now. If you ask them, like when was the last time you did something for the first time, they'd really have to think about it. And for me, I Seek that out because I'm like the first time you do something is when you learn the most Right. Think about you. In the first time you've been to like a place, like, oh, you went on vacation to the city For the first time. You come back with all of these thoughts and ideas that if someone asked you about it, you could share with them, that you couldn't share with them before because you had never done it before.
Speaker 2:And that's the thing like I constantly look back on my life as like the biggest motivator, because I'm like, every time Something came out of nowhere that I tried, that I didn't think I could do, like it's taught me something really beautiful and so much of my biggest accomplishments and my coolest learnings and my like most awesome exposures to life came from the things that I Couldn't have like planned or known, because they were a first-time thing.
Speaker 2:And I feel like to your point, it's such a beautiful thing to be able to like lean into that muscle because the more times you do it, the easier it becomes, even though it never becomes easier because we're constantly like Going into scarier places and I think like pulling on something you said earlier, these shots like really cool to also Trust ourselves and surround ourselves with people who are doing Things in ways that resonate with us and that are interesting to us, because it also shows us you, we can feel really alone when the worlds we're in are like kind of not the same, but the more we surround ourselves with those communities, we realize we're not actually that alone and there are other people out there trying and jumping and like Like you know, and it's it's so cool and I would argue that everyone is like trying and jumping.
Speaker 2:It's just more people are doing it out in the open and consciously and in line with their intentions, and it's really fun to see. And so, like I, I've oddly have, you know, carving out a path that feels Very much me has been, can feel lonely, but I've, oddly thought, more belonging in my career now than I ever have before because of the communities that I've been able to Seek out, because of that intentionality.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, well, in the beginning of this podcast you said you kind of asked out loud like what is a life well lived, or wanting a life well lived? So I'm gonna change your last question instead of leaving the audience with a piece of advice. I'm gonna ask you for you what is a life well lived? What a sweet question.
Speaker 2:You know, it's funny, like in line with everything we've been saying, these are like a life well lived is one where we I Don't know if we can really like pinpoint the outcomes of it.
Speaker 2:You know, and we grew up in this world where our parents, the world, tells us do this, do that, do that, and for me it's like so little about the outcomes and more about the feeling with which we embrace life. And you know, you've mentioned so many points and I think we've mentioned some about that one. A life for me, a life well lived, is one where we pay attention to our feelings. That sounds so fuzzy, right, but it's exactly what you've been talking about, right, it's about going into worlds and like paying attention to how they make us feel and how they tap into certain parts of us, going into experiences and, you know, because that can let us tap into our intuitions, right, and understand like what's the world we even want to create, what there are, the skills we want, what does it mean to feel the longing, and it's that kind of compass that that we can use to guide ourselves towards a life Well-lived. And also, I think, like learning to pay attention to our feelings also helps us understand, when we're like, how to grapple with feelings that feel really tough, right, and that like feel really hard, so that we can kind of Because I think so much of my life has been reacting to some of the tough things, you know, the tough feelings that were imposed on me or that I grew up with and I think a life well lived is also learning to Unravel those hard parts, and it feels soft, it also feels scary, but I think that's part of a life all lived is just learning to tap into those feelings.
Speaker 2:I think a life well lived is Learning that our thoughts and our feelings are not us, like. All of this is not, is totally not the. This is like the checkbox for a life all lived. It feels so soft, but for me I truly believe this it's like learning that how we feel in the moment when we hit lows, when we hit highs to your points earlier, aren't us, they're just us going through life and that gives us so much power to, like you know, navigate really beautiful worlds. And it it's like you know, learning to pay attention to our intuitions without Really getting bogged down with our fears, but also being kind with ourselves, that we're just human and we're just like navigating through a world that we're not completely going to understand and feelings that we're constantly grappling with and Like.
Speaker 2:I feel that really, a life well lived is one where we can learn to be really compassionate with ourselves, with the parts of ourselves that we don't get, the parts of ourselves that are human, the parts of, like the fears that we still grapple with, our intuitions, which are so beautiful, and and Like I feel like that sometimes the best motivation to, like you know, explore new things to Do, to create communities of belonging, to create careers that are really beautiful, to create really meaningful Relationships, is just learning to be compassionate with, like those complex parts of ourselves.
Speaker 2:So I know it feels really abstract, but I truly believe it and it's funny because I also I've been you've been doing this podcast for a few years. I've been doodling for like the past years. Now it's a little mini plug, but it's like this I do do and like I draw doodles and write a newsletter A couple of times a month. That's all about how to be kinder to ourselves and it sounds really fluffy, but I really think that, like, I Truly do think that, like, finding ways to be more compassionate with ourselves is Like are the are the way to create a rocket ship of a life and Really really a life well lived?
Speaker 1:Awesome, perfect. If people wanted to find you or your newsletter and stuff online, where can they find you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Raha dot sub stack comm is the website, or you could just look up Rahas things is, I know, spelled weird, don't ask, I don't even know where that came up Came from, but it's Raha, rha across free ass and then things with an ES after it. But yeah, like it's totally free to subscribe and it's a little thing that I do. I've done alongside like all these things in my career, which is funny that I end with it. But it's like like you said earlier, disha, there are certain things that we just kind of you know they're new worlds to explore, but there's certain things that we just keep doing and this is this is one of them for me and, yeah, I hope you guys enjoy it.
Speaker 1:Awesome. I will keep that linked down in the show notes. Thanks so much for being a guest.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was a great time.
Speaker 1:Thanks so much for tuning in guys. Make sure if you enjoyed this episode, you leave us a review on iTunes. You can find the show on all major streaming platforms. You can find me on Instagram at Disha dot Mazeppa. You can shop my Etsy shop Disha Mazeppa designs. Find out everything you want to know about this show at Disha Mazeppa comm and if you or someone you know would like to be a guest, you can email be Pspodcast at gmailcom and I'll see you guys next time. Bye, this podcast is hosted and produced by Disha Mazeppa. Music for the show was created by Craigswell.