Spicy South Asian Romances and Hot Takes with Nilika M. Patel

N M Patel is the author of Luv Shuv in New York and Luv Under Starlight , both SA interracial romances with some serious spice! She's Gujurati and grew up in India before getting a "love marriage" and moving to the US and pursuing being an author.
TW: caste
Find her books on Kindle Unlimited and Amazon
Follow her on IG: @Liber_Lady and TikTok @NMPatelAuthor 

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

Hi everyone, welcome back to, but what Will People Say? I'm your host, disha Mazzappa, and this is a South Asian Insuritial Relationship and Lifestyle podcast. Welcome back for another episode, hi everybody. So my guest this week is Nilika M Patel. She is also known as NM Patel that's her author name, and your girl loves to read and I love talking to authors. I really wanted to have her on because she writes spicy romance novels and they're South Asian main characters, they're interracial romances and I was like, well, hello, this is the demographic here. So if you like kind of those rom-coms but like spicier, you know, then this is the author for you. She is the author of Lovechev in New York and she is also the author of its sequel, lovechev Under the Stars, which comes out in two weeks. So you got plenty of time to read the first book and snag the second book. You can pre-order it in the link down below and if you have Kindle Unlimited, her books are on Kindle Unlimited. I know a bunch of you are like e-reader people, but you can also snag physical copies of it online. She is also a self-published author and if you guys have listened to any of our author episodes around here, you know how much work it is, no matter what route you take in the publishing world, getting your books out there, and we love seeing these brown girls succeed. So definitely go support her, read her book, leave her some great reviews, just like you guys do around here for my podcast, right? But yeah, she's my guest this week.

Speaker 1: 1:51

I don't know how much we talk about the books. To be quite honest, I think it's like the first maybe 10 minutes and then probably the last 10 minutes. But one thing we talk about that we really get into this week is like she had a love marriage. She was born and raised in India and then she came over here after she got married. And one thing I've noticed within, like I guess the diaspora is like there's the South Asians who grew up here and then there's the South Asians who grew up in India and came here as adults and kind of the very different mentalities and worldviews that they have, and sometimes they can have a bit of a clash, like sometimes it can almost feel like you're literally talking to someone that you really can't relate to, for lack of a better phrase. She was wonderful and we had such an interesting conversation.

Speaker 1: 2:42

We do touch on some touchy topics. So here's your trigger warning. We're talking about things like caste and all of that, and I think when people bring up caste, there's a lot of like hand wringing and pearl clutching, like, oh, it's like not like that anymore, like no, if you live in India it is, and every single day it is in your face that the caste system is a part of their day to day life. And I think it's really easy to sit here in the US and like pretend like it doesn't exist or like, oh yeah, it's like so much better. Now. I'm like do you live there? Is it better?

Speaker 1: 3:16

And of course, there are things that are changing, but like I think being able to have an open conversation and also be able to listen to points of views that maybe you didn't see or understand or expect, and just like letting those points of view exist, is really important. Like I've always said about this show, my job is never to tell you guys what to think. It's to let you guys make up your minds and give you as many perspectives as possible, because if you know anything about being South Asian, you know how diverse this group of people is, how diverse our experiences are, and because of that we have different ideas and different thoughts on all kinds of things, and so I actually really liked this conversation because it was like two Gujarati brown girls who have had very different experiences in the world and can sit here and have like a meaningful conversation and we just talk about so many different things. As always, me staying on topic is like very much not a strong point around here. So, anyway, I hope you enjoy me entering through this conversation with us.

Speaker 1: 4:26

Definitely check out her books. Like I said, they're on Kindle Unlimited, or you can buy them on Amazon and go support your girl. All right, without further ado, here's Naila Khan. Hi, everybody, we're here with Naila Patel. She is the author of Love Shove in New York and she's joining us to talk about her book and all the other cool things about her.

Speaker 2: 5:02

Hi, Hi Misha, how are you? I'm Naila Khan. Hi everybody, how are you?

Speaker 1: 5:10

Tell us. Well, first off, you're an author, Amazing. Tell us about your book, Okay.

Speaker 2: 5:17

So Love Shove is in New York is an interracial romance, like it's a basic romance with like opposite to track themes, where two people from completely different backgrounds are sort of coming together to study architecture in New York City and they fall in love. And just like the heroine is a basic heroine, so just like any basic heroine, she has to face her family and tell them about her relationship, which is not very conventional, and they have to go through the whole ordeal of fighting for love and going through those trials and then just being with each other and just standing sorry, being with each other to just sort of convince their family and then just getting them happily ever after.

Speaker 1: 6:08

So that sounds pretty much like this whole podcast as a book. You make the perfect guess. What inspired you to write a book like that?

Speaker 2: 6:18

So I've always been a romance reader and I never thought that I would write a book. But I guess I came to New York City from India in 2016. And I guess I was very focused on studying and just reading romance, so I did not even think about even writing a book for like two, three years. But once I got a job and I just I don't know started living in the city, I noticed so many interracial couples and I never see that reflected in romance books that I read. Usually, like, most of the romances are conventionally like at least in America conventionally white people romances well, it's just white people and it's different tropes and different topics. It's never about like two people or especially like an Indian person and an American person getting together and then just seeing a relationship played out where they actually have to fight to be together.

Speaker 2: 7:14

So I was like I need to read that and it's so common, it's so, so common for us. And I'm like how is nobody writing about this? And I just wanted to, I guess, read about like people from another culture experiencing our culture, and I'm like, because we have so many, I guess, school festivals, you know, we have such such, I guess, vast culture, we have so much, so much different food and traditions and it's so diverse and so different from here, and I'm like I want people to read it. I want to write about like a character who is experiencing it from the outside and then just falling in love with it. So, yeah, I decided to like what the heck like, let's just try. Let's just try writing this romance. I'm like what's the worst that could happen? I won't publish it, but I'm like at least let me write it down. So I gave it a shot and I got a book. I finished it, thankfully.

Speaker 1: 8:15

And here we are with a book, but you sound like so many of the authors I've had here on the show, where it always starts with I wrote the book that I wanted to read. Oh, exactly, yeah, you know you can't find it, and right now there's been a big boom of South Asian authors. I'm a huge bookworm. I'm super basic. I read rom-coms all the time and I really enjoyed this influx of kind of the AC characters, where there's little bits of us, and the best part has been getting to experience the different versions of the AC characters, because we're all very unique in our experiences, even though we're all from, say, india. I was born there, but I grew up here versus. You came here when you were in 2016,.

Speaker 1: 9:05

You were a little bit older as an adult, and so we have. Even just our definition of AC is different, and what it means to be Indian is probably a little bit unique and not always exactly the same, and so these characters that have come up have even just been interesting to experience, as a brown kid who grew up here, to see the story of a brown kid who might be coming from India and their story being told, and so that's been really cool.

Speaker 2: 9:38

I completely agree. I 100% agree to that, because when I talk to a person, like a basic person who has grown up here, they're so different from me I never really just connect as much to them and I feel like I should. There has to be a more, I guess, friendliness and integration between these two type of Indians coming together. But I feel like our social circles are. Everything is just very separate, like I really don't have too many. They see people who have grown up here as friends, like my whole friend group is, like all of us, just immigrants who have just come from India. So it's very different for me to sort of talk to them or become friends. And I know it's the same for people who have grown up here, because there's usually not much similarities between how we grow up except like having Indian parents.

Speaker 1: 10:34

Right, yeah, and you're right. I always say that I'm like. There's people like you who you grew up in India. So you like, when you went to school, everyone was just like you. You weren't a minority, right? They? Everyone got the same holidays off. You got to celebrate different festivals that were you had that commonality, whereas for kids like me, we grew up being the only brown kid in the room.

Speaker 2: 10:58

Yeah, yeah, that's hard to imagine, to be honest, it would be difficult. It would be so much difficult for you because you've always, I feel, grown up as a minority, so you felt like a minority, I guess, in one aspect, whereas when we, where we come from, we're like a billion people in India and all of us are just brown we we never see, we never see white people. For us it's like it's not even a question of identity, it's not like it's never been questioned and we're all just, I guess, as white people are here, like we're just all the majority, so it's like we've all people who come here. We've all lived in that majority, as a majority, and we know how good that is. So when we come here, it's like a culture shock for us, like, oh, we're a minority now, and it was like it's difficult to put yourself in that box, that now you're a minority. You used to be a majority.

Speaker 1: 11:55

Yeah, and like when you're a minority, you are always reminded of your skin color and that you're different, even though we have our commonalities. I grew up here in the US. My husband's very much American. I always say I have more in common with him than if I married a guy from India, because we still 100%.

Speaker 2: 12:19

Yes, the only difference is the color of your skin and you have better festivals. That's all Like we have more fun festivals and better food, but otherwise, like culturally speaking, you had the same schooling, you had you. You blend the same city. So it's like you're growing up, your inspirations, the pop culture and the media and everything that you consume, everything is just the same. The only difference is just it's minus, which is not even relevant for me, like shouldn't count.

Speaker 1: 12:51

Yeah, and it's funny you say that because our parents don't say that. Our parents see how different me and my husband is and it's like oh, how will this work? You're so different, you're so different. And I'm like and even so many people who listen to this show are like oh, how do you make your cultures work? I'm like our culture is the same. I have the added bonus of being Indian.

Speaker 2: 13:13

Yeah, so have your parents like I've heard it a lot here as well as like every my parents not particularly my parents, but my relatives, and like parents of my cousins they always mentioned like do not fall. You can fall in love with anybody, but not BMW. Do you have conversations of BMW with your parents? Because I have. That's something very prominent in my book where my heroine's father has told her like you can fall in love with any guy as far as he's not a BMW. So I'm like I just wanted, I was curious, like because it's so common, and I'm like that's that's the stupidest condition that you could put on a person. Like is that all that sort of matters to you? So I'm like yeah, I'm just for somebody who doesn't know what BMW is. It's like black, muslim and white person.

Speaker 1: 14:05

Yeah, yeah, we have all heard that and that's how we're raised right it's like no black no Muslims. Jesse Krishna, good night. Like that's it and like, yeah and it's. It's really silly and it's funny. You say that because my family was so worried about like what's our family in India going to think? What are they going to say when we tell them you're marrying?

Speaker 2: 14:29

someone who's not.

Speaker 1: 14:30

Indian. And when they told them, my cousins were like you live in. America. Of course she married an American. You live in America. I like she's American, because when I go to India they don't say I'm Indian, they say I'm American.

Speaker 2: 14:43

But when I come to.

Speaker 1: 14:43

America. They're like you're Indian and I'm like cool. So I don't know where I belong now.

Speaker 2: 14:47

I feel like India fans here because they've just come from India they are. They so want to cling to their roots. But what happens is, as an Indian I'll tell you this like we've noticed as Indians, that parents here in America are so much more stricter than the parents in India. Like things are so much open in India, like people are cool with so many more things these days, like the parents are really a little like keeping up with the Western culture, whereas parents here they want to, I guess, preserve their culture and like pass it on to their kids. So I feel like they're more strict with their kids in certain aspects Because, like going to temples and doing certain sort of like following certain traditions, and there's so much that people here do that like people have stopped doing, like our generation has stopped doing in India, and they're like what are some of those?

Speaker 2: 15:47

like doing some sort of rough and everything. Like people here are, like fans here, try to enforce a lot of sort of roughs and fast things and I guess, on the children, whereas, like we don't, we have stopped doing all of those. Like we don't do all those fast things, that's the one girls do right for, like a husband.

Speaker 2: 16:08

Yeah for the husband, yes, yes, like I did a few, but then I'm like I cannot. I kept breaking them and I'm like you know I'm, it's like time to give up. I don't think I can finish all those five fast things and like, let's just stop now I'll find a good aspect.

Speaker 1: 16:24

You're right. I grew up I knew a lot of girls who would have to do that.

Speaker 2: 16:28

I think it's in the summer the big one that yeah, I think in July, between June and August.

Speaker 1: 16:33

Yes, and it was always like my mom never forced that on me, but she would always like nudge me, but she knew like I definitely wasn't going to do it, like not a chance, because like she knew as soon as she mentioned the word husband growing up it was like I don't really need or want one of those, so she was never going to convince me to be like you should fast so you find a good husband. I'm like I hope I don't find a husband. Thank you, like jokes on me. I've been married for years but you also had a love marriage.

Speaker 1: 17:07

So tell us about that, because here people equate love marriage to picking someone that you marry and they're like as long as they're Indian, though, and arranged marriages are kind of this like semi dating, where your parents set you up, but it's how common is it to still get an arranged marriage versus a love marriage where you just bring someone home?

Speaker 2: 17:37

That's like I feel like it's a 50 50 these days, like it's the same in India, to be honest, like I guess it depends on your age, particularly in India, like when you're between 20 to 25, the parents are very insistent like, oh, you must like, even if you find like a person yourself, but he has to be like a same caste, same religion, and yeah. But then I guess the older you grow, the shorter the list of requirements is like OK, as far as he's not the same, it's OK if it's not the same caste, but at least let him be the same, speaking, like the same language speaking person. Like at least, since I am a good rati, like my parents were like, oh, he should be speaking good rati, then it would be easier to have like regular conversations. And then I guess after 30 they're more like just just let him be Hindu. If you're a Hindu person, like just let him be of same religion, we don't care about anything, just let him be the same religion, we don't care about the age. So I feel like in love marriages the requirements sort of keeps getting shorter, but traditionally speaking they just want the person to be of the same caste and the same religion.

Speaker 2: 18:53

Now for me. So I am a slightly lower caste than my husband, so he's a patel, so they're like the top, top chain, top on the top of the food chain of the caste. So they're like but I'm a mystery, so we're slightly lower caste. His family has had no issues like that in her mom's. His mom's only requirement was that the girl should be good rati speaking, that's all. She had one requirement that she should be speaking good rati. So I can talk to her and thankfully I checked the box.

Speaker 2: 19:28

But my family, but my family, they I guess just the fact that I was bringing someone of my own choice was sort of an issue for them. They were like we can find somebody better for you. I mean, I was like, probably, but I don't know that person, I haven't it's. That's not a guarantee that I would be happy with that person. You don't know what my life would be, whoever you bring, or however richer or better or whatever you bring, you don't know if I would be happy with that, like in the long run with that person. So I'm like, do you take like a calendar or something that I would be happier? Like, if anything goes wrong, I will blame you and like this, with this it's my, with this it's my choice, like I wouldn't be coming back to blame you in the future and I like this person, I love this person and I've been talking to this person for like six years, so it's like it's not a question for me and like I'm doing this, so you have to be with me.

Speaker 2: 20:31

And a difficult part was like we were in India and my husband wanted to. He was set on moving to America for his future and that was never like my life plan. Like I would be moving to another country and I'm like the eldest daughter on both sides of my family, so it's like it was a little difficult yeah, it was a little difficult for me to convince them to let me go, because that was their main question. Like you'd have to leave the country for him and I'm like maybe I would find better opportunities and it's so. It opens so many opportunities for me.

Speaker 2: 21:07

Like I would have never written a book if I hadn't come to America. It's like it wouldn't have ever happened. Because you don't have time in India. You're socializing and your life is so busy and so with the family that it just it just nothing like this ever happens with you Like you don't. You don't do things that you want, you don't have time to think for yourself, you just constantly living with your family, so you're Always under their influence in a way. Like what would they say? Every every action has this Question like would they approve of this? Would they do that? Yeah, let me do that. Like is it okay if I do that? Every, every little action needs like a permission Before doing something I wouldn't have imagined, like opening my own bookstagram account. I would have never dreamed of owning the romance books that I read in it if I was living in India. So it's like it opened a whole new world for me just coming here. And that's all because I followed my husband.

Speaker 1: 22:08

So it worked out. You mentioned kind of the like the idea of moving here and what that has done for you. Do you feel like Maybe that's why people here can be so individualistic is we have too much downtime. We don't have enough time with like community and people where we don't feel the impact of our decisions as much, because it's like we really only have to think about ourselves?

Speaker 2: 22:36

Yes, and that's such a huge freedom and it's like it's. It's like you're not, you're not judging your own actions from the lens of your parents or from the other lens of your family. So it's just emotionally, like mentally, just peace up so much of space, like you don't have to tell them everything. You're free here, you, just you can do whatever you want and nobody is going to know. Like I did not tell my family, at least even my own mother, that I have a bookstagram account for like four years. I'm like I'm just I Didn't even tell my family that I was writing a book. For two and a half years they did not know that I was writing a book. What the book? Anything about my this whole bookish life. They didn't know for years. Because I'm like I don't want that judgment, because the kind of books I read they're Spicy and I don't think they need to know that. But they wouldn't be able to handle that. And I'm like I don't want the judgment, I don't want the constant like saying like oh, why don't you read a different book? And like I don't want to exactly like, leave me. So I didn't.

Speaker 2: 23:51

I told my announce to my family that I'm releasing a book one month before its release and never told anybody. How do they react? They were very happy and they were like, oh, what's the book about? When can we read it? We're gonna be right.

Speaker 2: 24:05

And then you're not allowed to read it. I'm like it's a little Romantic and it's like Explicit. So you are not allowed to read it to, not even you can buy it Just to put it on your shelf. You are not allowed to just constantly, I guess, tell all our relatives that, oh, read her book. I'm like I mean you can tell her but what you might find out, you cannot blame me later on and like, like it's tell them at your own risk. But yeah, they were, they were a little. My mom was a little sad. I quite did you write such a book? It would have been so much. I would have sold so many of your books to our relatives if you would wouldn't have written like an Explicit kind of a romance. I'm like I don't need you to say I don't need you to sell my books, I'll sell my own books. That's fine.

Speaker 1: 24:57

You know, I think that's where. Where in India are you from? Good job? Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, so well, I asked because so, from what I grew up here, we don't really have a concept of what life in India is like. Like how you tell us that, like Like our parents were just, like India is just like this all the time and we just believe them, like all the things you said, like India doesn't do anymore.

Speaker 1: 25:25

I learned as an adult through this, mostly like my guess that grew up in India, I'm cuz like we brought not going to temple on your period, you know, doing all these other random rituals and things we were just told like this is what Indian people do, this is what it's like in India and even when I packed to go to India, it's like you can't wear this, you can't bring, that, you can't do that.

Speaker 1: 25:51

Literally in my head. I'm like I feel the oppression. I don't want to go back to India. This sounds terrible and you know, to some extent my family there is very conservative and so when I go there I basically can't do anything, which is why for me it's not really fun. I would like it to be fun because part of me wishes so desperately I can go to this country I was born in and feel at home.

Speaker 2: 26:12

Yeah, and in a way that I don't. It's. I feel like it's the pain, like in whole, it's the parents to blame because they're, therefore They've had on to this from like eighties and seventies and that in the other, so different than the India it is right now. Right now, the current India is so much more open and flexible and just so, I guess, so much like the western culture. It's like almost, to be honest, better, I would say, like the life in India. For us, if you are like moderately have money and just are open-minded and just willing to make something out of for yourself, india is like a boon. It's. I feel like it's really like you should go to Mumbai, or like Bangalore or Delhi or like just big cities, and then, yeah, yeah, experience it with like young generation.

Speaker 1: 27:06

That's what I'm trying to do, but every time, if you know how any people are, if they find out I'm going to India, it's. I'm gonna be trapped visiting family the entire time and if I don't, they will hold it against me for the rest of my life. And you know it's interesting because you know you're saying like it's so much more Progressive and like when my parents came, it was a time where people were trying to escape India, like yeah, any chance.

Speaker 1: 27:30

That opportunity meant going to London, going to America, going to Australia, and now it's the opposite, where India is trying to really hold on to all of its Talent, these billion people that have so much to offer. We are so hardworking and tenacious and scrappy that you know I, like you said, india, in what less than a hundred years of independence, has very much gone from third world to Industrial age overnight. Yeah, with one generation, essentially that's true Max to generation.

Speaker 2: 28:04

Yeah, like my grandmother. My grandmother is like alive and kicking and she was born during like almost independence.

Speaker 1: 28:13

Yeah, my grandmother was born under, basically, colonization and now we live in 2023 and it's so different and I feel like things are changing in India and, like you said, they're not changing here within the South Asian communities, cause even like you're sitting here, you're talking about caste so casually right, like it's just a fact of life, that this was a part of your day to day to understand the caste system. But if you say the word caste here, people get so uncomfortable.

Speaker 2: 28:46

They get Because it's like difficult for them to admit to that that it's true, like it's a fact of India Like we have here. It's not that prevalent, but in India when you go there, caste is such a major part of like just living and growing up from lower caste. They have this disadvantage and they are the minority and it's difficult to avoid that when you are like looking at so many underpaid jobs and like the people, like the people from lower caste, because they're doing those jobs and it's like you're growing up looking around at them. Here you don't see that at all. Like here everybody's sort of just salvation, there's just one identity. But in India, like your identity is your sort of your caste, not because we have reservations for caste, like here how universities have like a seat for minority. There the universities have a seat for caste minority, so it's all like you're always-.

Speaker 1: 29:49

It's like a daily reminder of your-.

Speaker 2: 29:51

Yes, exactly so. It's like all the people from lower caste are trying to get up, like, get educated and move up by their merit, but they're still. It's still there. But if you are from like, like, I guess, a moderately upper caste, not highest, but like if you're not a lower caste person, you're living, I guess, the life that white people are living here, which is very privileged. You just see them and you see like beggars and beggars on the streets, which is just a harsh reality. People just here, like people who have immigrated here, just want to escape that and not admit to that.

Speaker 1: 30:31

I guess, yeah, no, you're right, cause it's an uncomfortable conversation.

Speaker 1: 30:37

It's we all want to be like, oh, you know India's past, that we don't have the caste system anymore, and you'll hear a lot of us say that.

Speaker 1: 30:44

You'll hear a lot of Indian people who grew up here be like, oh, yeah, like they don't really do the caste system anymore.

Speaker 1: 30:49

That's not really a thing, cause, like I, truly I have no idea what my caste is and I'm not trying to have this conversation in a way to offend anybody who's listening, but but you know, here, for the kids who grew up here, they can get extremely uncomfortable and they almost don't want to have the conversation, or it becomes this like hyper, like looking to be offended by that agenda instead of addressing that like this is a still a reality, it's regressive, it does need to change. It's clearly holding people back in their countries and here, yes, we like to think we're past that, but a lot of our parents aren't? They still mention caste. They might not care, they might not be like you have to marry in it, and I guess I don't know how to make it a conversation isn't so triggering for some people. And again, I think that's a difference between our two subgroups of NACIs where, like when it's a part of your day to day, you just like accept it, not saying that the caste system is okay.

Speaker 2: 31:57

And not as supported. But yeah, accept the reality. Yeah, Right.

Speaker 1: 32:01

But it's like this is the reality we live with, whereas here, even acknowledging that reality makes people really uncomfortable. And I think that's the difference is, you can't move forward if you can't acknowledge that it's a problem and you're too busy being upset about it.

Speaker 2: 32:16

That's, I guess, importance of education and like having equal job opportunities for everyone, and I guess that's how most people do it. But, like when you go to India, you just do see the differences. You can tell the differences just living there for like a month and you'll know like, okay, you feel privileged, like you do feel that you are the majority here, because if you are, you just do feel it. And it's a different feeling from here, like when you hear, I feel like the whole it just sometimes makes me infuriated that I'm considered a minority or like my book is considered like a basic book or it's like put in a box of BIPOC authors and BIPOC books and it's not just a book, I'm like it's just like a romance book and then people sort of tag, like it's. I feel thankful and grateful for people who sort of tag me or just read those books in the months when it's BIPOC month or whatever.

Speaker 1: 33:22

But I'm like it's not, like I'm not changing color in the other months, you know and just yeah, it's not just a book for May, for AAPI month, it's a book for when you want to read it, yeah like it's.

Speaker 2: 33:35

Why is white book? Like there's no month, like this is the white people, this is white month, this is a white month. I'm like I just hate that. Like just put my book in a normal bookshelf, like it's just annoying a little bit. Like sure, it's a reality, but it's just. I feel like I'm still getting used to being considered like a part of a subgroup rather than yes, and it's normal, you know.

Speaker 1: 34:03

so this is a conversation we have here a lot, where a lot of people of color I think that phrase no one voted on it. But you know, south Asians, they eat it up. You see it online where they love the woman of color, person of color, bipoc minority and I'm like relax. I'm like this is like being put at the children's table, like, oh, I'm not a podcaster, I'm a woman of color podcaster. Like I don't need to be babied, just listen to the podcast.

Speaker 2: 34:35

If you like it? Yeah, exactly. It's like, oh sure, I also hate that for women in STEM, women in this, I'm like everybody's STEM diesel. I mean, in India you go to India, everybody's an engineer. I'm like sure, thank you. I'm like, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 34:52

And it's dehumanizing that we are just a label. Yeah, I hate that.

Speaker 2: 34:56

It's like just read it for entertainment, it's cute. It's like cute romance. It's like the guy's falling in love with a girl, he's obsessed with her, he's supporting her when she's fighting for your relationship with the family. It's just he's celebrating your festivals and it's fun. And it's cute how he's loving you. Dressed in like chanya choli, like just love it for what it is, like you don't have to dig too deep. It's like just relax, like everything doesn't need to be Exactly. I just hate when everything is just scrutinized.

Speaker 1: 35:33

Oh my God, it makes me yeah, and that's interesting because you said you're tired of feeling like a minority because you've been the majority, right, and my husband being white, he's the majority here and he's like that too. Or he's like I don't understand why everything needs to be like hyper about people's color. He's like you're just my wife, you're not my Indian wife. That's more racist than calling you just my wife, because that's what you are. I've never looked at you as like oh, she's Indian Brown color, yeah, it's my brown wife. He's like that would be so racist to say.

Speaker 1: 36:08

And yet people think it's like OK, just to label people based on the color of their skin. And it's like South Asians. Here. It's a mixed bag. There's the people who love that shit and I'm not one of them, clearly and then there's people like me who are like this is it's like being treated like a baby, like I can't hang out with the other kids, like I can't be a podcaster, right? It's like? Or it has to be more than that, right? Like oh, this is about oppression and I'm like it's not about fucking oppression, it's like you have if you're brown.

Speaker 2: 36:43

I feel like this if you're label as brown and if you're label as this South Asian author, it has like me getting the pressure that I always have to create content that is for the brown and of the brown people and I'm like I don't want to always do that. Like what if my books are both about white people or like black people? I'm like it just sort of make like puts me in the book.

Speaker 1: 37:05

It's more oppressive to do that to you than to just let you write your book.

Speaker 2: 37:10

Exactly. I'm like I'm almost afraid to write a character where everybody's white and I know that that would sell more, like marketing wise speech. I know that would sell more and I want to sell my book and I want to write about white people too and brown people too, and just like a normal way, I want to write about characters and like, not like color of the skin, and I'm like people get so obsessed with what I am representing, Like it's like do you feel just connected by their thoughts or the character personality, or is it, or would you just only feel connected to a character if she's brown or if she's black or if she's white? And it makes me mad because it's like people are always going to have issues with that. Yeah, I was gonna say, and I got like this weird comment, like on my TikTok where, like every time I'm promoting, sometimes you get these atrocious comments, where I get complaints like why does it have to be like a white guy with the brown girl? What's wrong with him being brown?

Speaker 2: 38:15

And I'm like, oh my God, it's just a book. Read the book, yeah, and like, if you want to read it, read it. But it's like having two brown characters. It's great. My book three would have both brown characters but for the life of me I'm like it's brown brown people, it's normal for me. I'm in that relationship. My friends are in like a brown brown relationship, Like we're all just Indians being in relationship with Indian people. I don't want to write about that. It's not creating like the conflict that I want to read about and like I want somebody else to get into my culture, learn it, enjoy it. It's so vibrant and beautiful, but it's like, yeah, people just sometimes they just get mad for just oh yeah no, you're gonna offend everybody.

Speaker 1: 39:02

Because even here I have listeners that are not South Asian.

Speaker 2: 39:06

Oh, which is pretty cool.

Speaker 1: 39:08

That are not women. Yeah, and yes, that's mostly who I cater to, but I want to create other podcasts that have nothing to do with being brown. I just want to create podcasts about other topics that are interesting and like you, it's like what, if my podcast has nothing to do with being South Asian, are you not going to read it? Because I think that's more racist than Exactly, yeah, putting me in a Like just letting me Like, right, brown characters, I don't want to this book.

Speaker 2: 39:33

This book is about this character and it's not about a brown woman. And I feel like so much pressure that I almost considered like having another pen name just so I can write any color people that I want to write, like where I can just focus on a story, and I'm like, should I just have like a secret pen name to write something like that, because this is so much?

Speaker 1: 39:53

pressure, and isn't that more oppressive that you? Feel like you have to hide behind a name to write the characters you want, Exactly, yes for so much and I'm like still debating it, but I'm like we'll see.

Speaker 2: 40:06

We'll see Because it's like so so, so confining.

Speaker 1: 40:10

Yeah, cause then, like I said, like when everything is about being brown, now there's the pressure of you have to address all of these issues. You have to address all the issues, that this can't just be like a fun rom-com, Because for me I have obviously, through this podcast, lots of author friends and I'll text them when I have an idea, Because right now you get a lot of South Asian authors doing books like addressing the South Asian issues and I'm like, can I just have a brown?

Speaker 1: 40:39

girl book where, like the girl falls in love with the boy, it has nothing to do with her being brown Maybe they mentioned Samosas once and like they fall in love in Seattle and it's so cute. Or like a holiday rom-com, you know, like I want a hallmark movie with a brown girl who meets a nice Southern boy on a tree, on a Christmas tree farm, and there's no conflict besides the miscommunication of how much he loves her. But this book is not for you.

Speaker 2: 41:07

My book. They did not read my book because my book was literally about being brown, but it's like and I understand that Like for us it's like a whole issue, like why is being brown so much? So much the focus. But I feel like my book is more for the parents. Like I wish Indian parents would understand, like I wish they see parents would just chill out.

Speaker 1: 41:31

No, but I love that you wrote this book, because there's not enough of those either. We love the books that are addressing all of these things about being brown, where our experiences get reflected in the characters. I love that. But, just like you, I want you guys to have the freedom to write a book that is literally just a hallmark movie.

Speaker 2: 41:49

Next book is like that the next book does not address the color of your skin. It's about issues bigger than that. So I'm like I got this out of my system. My book, too, will be more about like personal struggles, which is not related to like color, but there's no conversation. What minority majority there's just related to your color or like your nationality?

Speaker 1: 42:10

It's more of like deeper issues, like real sort of grief and loss and all that and like being able to write whatever you want, because then it feels like so I'm always reading the book I'm reading right now has. It's a she's a white author and you know, but there's a character named Parth in the book and he just gets to be a character. It's not about how he's brown, he's like one of like six characters. It's just his name is Parth and he is one of a group of friends of six people, and it's not about his culture or the fact that his fiance is white or the fact that, oh, this is his dual identity. It's like no, he's just one person in a group of friends in this story.

Speaker 2: 42:55

Yeah, and nothing is found upon. Nothing is like different, and she's white.

Speaker 1: 43:00

So she can do that. Because she's not writing for women of color. Yeah, that's true, and it's like you're oppressing brown people by saying they can only make content for other brown people.

Speaker 2: 43:12

Yeah, because I've seen so many great authors which are like South Asian authors, like Anisha Sharma and Anika Sharma no, anika Sharma and Alisha Ra yeah, alisha Ra Like they all, we love reading about everything, but it's like you never see. I guess even I don't know they feel the same pressure to just keep writing brown people, or if it's just because they want to write, but it's always like it would like be nice if somebody just put a banner somewhere like you can write whichever color of like characters that you want for everybody. It's also like an issue of white people writing brown people. I'm not just let them write. At least we would have brown people. Like there's so much issue, like it's so much pressure for white authors to only write white people, and then we would complain about, like why are you writing it? There's so many South Asian authors.

Speaker 1: 44:07

Yeah, I think. Why are we speaking for the South Asian experience? I'm like I can't even speak for the South Asian experience. My experience is going my own. Do you feel like, because you grew up in India and then came here, that people here are like a little too hyper focused on race in a way that in India, like you, can just do whatever you want?

Speaker 2: 44:31

Yeah, I do feel that, but the thing is like India has other things where they're focused on. India is hyper focused on religion, caste and all that other drama. So India has plenty of issues where a race isn't that much bigger for a deal because essentially we're all just a billion of them same race, for sure.

Speaker 1: 44:56

I guess, like every place, has its pros and cons and its issues.

Speaker 2: 44:59

It's just about whether you fall in the minority and the majority. That's the only, I guess, difference on the way you live. It's great to be a majority and I don't blame white people for, I guess, being the majority. Like you win, like it's your world. Have fun.

Speaker 1: 45:17

Yeah, we'll see. That's such a different perspective than you would get from people here who there's been this like weird, like resentment of white people for being the majority and it's not their fault, like they didn't.

Speaker 2: 45:32

If you go, if, like a South Asian person born here goes to India, give it like two months and you would feel like the majority, like you wouldn't feel like an outsider. You just have to give it time to at least know the people like, feel the culture, like, feel the regular life. Like you wouldn't feel at home in 15 days. But if you give it like three months a year, like you would so easily because you would blend in, you would be just with every. Every other person is your color and you would soon like feel like the majority. You wouldn't feel any difference in.

Speaker 2: 46:07

Like if you and your husband like go to India and like move to India, it's him, he would be the one who would feel a little more out of place for a while and it's like, even if both of you are feeling out of place, it would be he would sort of look out of place oh yeah, no, and he was, and it would be a glorious feeling for you, like you would. Finally, these are my people. Yes, I know we are all the majority here and like let's see how you feel. Like it would be a good thing.

Speaker 1: 46:41

Yeah Well, I mean, I always joke, that's how he feels. When we go to Edison, New Jersey, he's a minority and that sticks out like a sore thumb anywhere in that place. But it's funny because you say like. You say that, but when I go to India I still feel like a minority because I could be wearing Indian clothes, taking my little rickshaw wherever I'm going and a mile away these people are like she's American, she's not from here, and I'm like I don't. But then again Indian people here also don't know I'm Indian. So that's a whole other conversation.

Speaker 2: 47:20

My, I mean, I guess you didn't look a little like what. Do they confuse you with Latina or something? I feel like you might be getting mixed up with that.

Speaker 1: 47:29

Well, I get Latina but I get mixed from a lot of them, Like they think I'm half white.

Speaker 2: 47:37

Huh that's that. I mean that's it. It's like, yeah, that's interesting.

Speaker 1: 47:43

So, getting back to your book, we've been on a bit of a rant this whole time, but that's OK. It's always true, it's all good. What has been one of the best parts about being able to write this book?

Speaker 2: 47:56

I have to fall in love with my own festivals all over again. Because the goal is, like the hero is American and the heroine is Indian and she's like just new to America. So even she is discovering, like oh, new Jersey celebrates these festivals and she gets excited about the things that she can at least there's something that I can actually enjoy. And she takes him like to her festivals, like so they go for celebrating Navratri, there's a scene with Holy, there's a tiny scene with Diwali and it's like just falling, like seeing writing about your own festivals, but in a way that you're showing, like you're sharing that with somebody else who doesn't know anything. So it's like going to research a little bit about your own festivals and then just you know, ok, I didn't know that. And then just it's all about like celebrating and showing off your culture, like if you like Indian culture and if you're like, oh, I want to see how somebody else would see it and fall in love with it. And it's also about showing the harsh sort of facts, like the BMW thing, like her sharing her parents expectations, like oh, this is what's the reality for me, and seeing the response of the hero, who is American, who doesn't really care about all of that. It's like the book is about just facing these issues that we face together, like having somebody support you in that. And it's not all sad. To be honest. There's barely any like two sad moments or two, I guess, those moments where you're just mad about Indian parents and their thoughts it's like a little bit of their thoughts too Like they're always concerned about, like the parents always want you to be, want you to be like, I guess, find some somebody who shares common ground with you and also with them, and they want to interact with your, with their son-in-law and with your husband. So it's, I feel, like all of these issues arise because, at the core of it, they just want to protect you and they feel like they would be helpless if the person who they know nothing about, who's, who just comes from completely outside culture how, how would they protect you if they break your heart? Or how would they? What's the guarantee that they would take care of you? At the core of it, it's just about their concern or how they're like trying to make you have a happy life. I feel like that's their main concern and that's why they just sometimes act stupid and racist. But that's. That's just like trying to give their side of thought to. So it's like trying to navigate this, but in a little fun way, in a little dramatic way, in a little more Bollywood way, like have the siblings rally together to sort of convince your parents it's like planning behind their backs. So it's also a little shenanigans just to, I guess, get the approval from parents. So yeah, it's a fun.

Speaker 2: 51:07

It's a fun romance. Essentially it's a little funny when he sees what you call, when he sees a low time. You're in her bath room and he's like, oh, what's this about? And it's like just culture differences and shots which are more on the funnier side than on like a more serious side. It's like a mix of both. So it's like a fun. I would say romantic comedy, but I don't read too many romantic comedy so I don't know how to put that in the box. It's just a fun little romance.

Speaker 1: 51:40

Okay.

Speaker 1: 51:41

Now I love that I'm sure there's lots of people listening who can probably relate to your character and we love like a positive depiction of interracial relationships around here and showing giving you. You know, I find that books are a way for all of us to escape a little bit. I love getting lost in a book and just like this is the world I'm now in and you know, you don't. Sometimes you relate to characters, you don't? I think most books are about the human experience, so we all relate to them, no matter what. But it's always nice having a glimmer of hope in all of it too.

Speaker 1: 52:18

It's just like there's the story where it does work out, where exactly in love with our culture because so many of us are raised with the fear that they won't.

Speaker 2: 52:29

Because I mean, that's, I guess, exactly, and it's like, would you stick around, like when things get hard, because they're going to? And this is the book where he does stick around, and then it's like, okay, so it works out. And you're like it's sort of like if somebody is reading it and it's just a little bit of a hope that if you try, maybe things would work out and maybe your friends would be fine and they would also fall in love with your, with the love of your life, and it would be just all perfect and it would. It would work out. Yeah, we love that. It's a great help.

Speaker 1: 53:03

For sure, but we've been chatting for a while. It's probably a good point to wrap it up.

Speaker 2: 53:12

Wow, it doesn't take real life so much time past.

Speaker 1: 53:15

Yes, it never feels very long once you're in it. But if people wanted to find your book, where could they find it?

Speaker 2: 53:25

So it's available on Amazon, so it's available in digital copy on Kindle, it's available in paperback and it's free if you have a Kindle unlimited subscription.

Speaker 1: 53:35

Amazing, awesome. So we'll link some of that down in the show notes and if people wanted to find you online, where can they find you?

Speaker 2: 53:44

I'm available on, very active on Instagram and TikTok, so my Instagram is author N N Patel and same for my TikTok. I'm a little more author based in TikTok. On Instagram I'm also like a bookworm and bookstagrammer, so I talk about a lot of different books, books that I love, book reviews, as well as my own book, my TikTok is my author space, so I only talk about my book on TikTok. I need one space where I'm allowed to just be free and just be an author.

Speaker 1: 54:17

I love it and we all find our creative outlets and where we can kind of show the way we want. So love that. Thanks so much for being a guest.

Speaker 2: 54:26

Thank you so much for inviting me. It was so much fun.

Speaker 1: 54:31

Thanks so much for tuning in guys. Make sure if you enjoyed this episode, you leave us a review on iTunes. You can find the show on all major streaming platforms. You can find me on Instagram at DishaMazeppa. You can shop my Etsy shop, disha Mazeppa Designs. Find out everything you want to know about this show at DishaMazeppacom, and if you or someone you know would like to be a guest, you can email bwpspodcast at gmailcom. And I'll see you guys next time. Bye, thanks for watching. The podcast is hosted and produced by Disha Mazeppa, the project for the show was created by Crackswell.