Blending Indian/Punjabi and Jamaican Cultures with Anika Dhalla

Anika is 31 years old and lives in Canada with her Jamaican husband . We chat living and loving with intention, creating boundaries when we have to, and being surrounded by quality relationships.
Follow Anika on IG @peskyveggies 
0:08 Blending Cultures in Intentional Relationships
11:39 Love and Relationships Made Simple
20:15 Interracial Relationships in Indian Community
28:30 Quality Over Quantity
37:19 Multicultural Relationships and Overcoming Obstacles
46:28 Navigating Cultural Integration in Relationships

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:08

Hi everyone, welcome back to. But what Will People Say? I'm your host, deesha Mazzappa, and this is a South Asian Insuritial Relationship and Lifestyle podcast. Welcome back for another episode. Hi everyone. My guest this week is Anika. She is from Canada, she's Indian, she's Punjabi and her partner is Jamaican, and this week we talk all about blending different cultures together and building an intentional life and relationship. This is a really positive and hopeful story. Loved having this conversation. I hope you guys enjoy it.

Speaker 2: 0:57

Let's get into it.

Speaker 1: 1:01

Hi everybody. We're here with Anika. She's joining us from Canada this morning. Welcome to the show. Hi, tell the audience who you are, tell us a little bit about yourself and your background, and then we'll get into it.

Speaker 2: 1:20

So my name is Anika Lealer and I used to be Dala, but I recently got married to my partner. I am from Hamilton, ontario. I actually grew up in the Prairies in Manitoba, which is like literally the center of North America, and, yeah, I started off there, moved over to the East Coast, love it here, staying here, don't want to leave, and I'm a dietitian, which is awesome. I love my job, which I think most people nowadays can't really truly say they love their job, but I actually love my job. I wouldn't say I'm a workaholic because I don't feel like I work a lot, but I work a lot. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1: 2:08

Yeah, it's that double-edged sword of doing what you love and it doesn't feel like work, so you never stop.

Speaker 2: 2:14

Yeah, that's me. I understand Fun. You know I deal with primarily South Asian populations, just because I'm Indian and I do have quite a bit of a cultural background, not just being Indian. I have traveled a lot. I've lived in India too, for my senior thesis as an adult. I feel like that's something that's a little unique as well, just because I'm a Canadian going out to India and living in a village, which that wasn't easy, but I absolutely loved it and I think about it pretty much every day. It's been five years.

Speaker 1: 2:50

So it's your Roman Empire? Yeah, I'm like oh, I just want to go back, Alrighty. Well, before we get into all of that, let's start with your relationship. You said you recently got married. Tell us about that.

Speaker 2: 3:06

So my partner's name is Khadim. We got married in August. It was literally the coolest wedding ever and I'm not just saying that because it's mine, it was just a blend of our cultures. We did just two events instead of doing a whole big fat Punjabi wedding. Khadim is Jamaican, so we blended up our Indian Jamaican vibes for the singeeth and did, like you know, I was wearing rasta-colored langa and like he was wearing like a bright red shirwani and we did, like you know, cool tropicals and Indian kites and it was really in little marigold. It was really sweet and that was like our singeeth.

Speaker 2: 3:54

And then our wedding was really beautiful too. We just had it on a vineyard and it was really small. We didn't keep it like you know, the 800 to 1,000 people Indian wedding. We were like we'll have 100 people of our closest friends just to have them all with us. It was. It was really perfect. Honestly, khadim is really kind and sweet and I feel like I'm so lucky to have someone like that in my life. That is just. He just gets it and like I get him, which I think is also really cool.

Speaker 1: 4:29

Awesome and one thing that makes your story more, I guess, unique in this space is that you, your family, was pretty much on board. Your families didn't give you too much of a hard time. But tell us kind of your dating journey and how you got to the point of being married.

Speaker 2: 4:47

Yeah, so we met on Bumble. I moved to Hamilton and I was like it was in the middle of the pandemic. Well, actually not in the middle, it was at the beginning in 2020. I moved in July and I moved July like third and I was like I'm bored and I have no friends and I'm like like itching to get out and I can't get out because I'm stuck at home, I'm in my base and my mom's basement. I can't go anywhere.

Speaker 2: 5:18

And I just we just swiped and I just was very straight up about like hey, I don't want to text you, I don't want to text you, I don't want to like keep texting on the app. I don't want to do that, I'd rather just like we'll meet for a coffee, we can go for a walk or something Like I don't want to do that. And he was like cool, how about we meet in like three days? And we just ended up like talking a lot during our first date. It was like five hours of just nonstop talking. I don't think we stopped talking. And then, like we just shared our worldviews and our values and at the time, like George Floyd had just passed away as well Well, murdered, sorry, not passed away, he was murdered and we just spoke about equity and how BIPOC communities were suffering and, like, obviously, kadeem being a black Jamaican man, he was directly affected by that murder and I was just trying to listen and learn from his viewpoints and I knew that he was just really special just from like what he had to say and I obviously like just aligned immediately with what he said and I could never really truly feel that like the same way, just because I'm not a black man but as an Indian woman, I can see, you know, there's some similarities in how like Indian women are treated within our own culture and how black men are treated in those situations as well. Like when it comes to police brutality, I always think about like how women are kind of like told to do things and they have to do things and they are like expected to do things. He was just really open with like just having that like similar perspective and we just resonated and just vibed and like, yeah, after the third date I was just like yeah, you should just come in, because I we watched my dog and he was very dirty after a very long hike and I was like I can't leave him at my mom's like this because he's going to shake off all the mud and be disgusting. So I was like just come in, it's fine, just come in. And he's like do they know that I'm black? And I was like no, I don't even think they know about you. That was kind of my like, because I never really thought that it was ever going to be a big deal, because my parents were really open Like.

Speaker 2: 7:57

I grew up in a really small community in Manitoba like literally was 48,000 people, like it was very small and I was the only colored kid growing up until like grade five, so there wasn't like anybody else. So my parents were always like really open about everything, just because they were like well, we're marginalized in this community, so we don't like marginalize others. And my mom was just very much like I want to show everyone to celebrate us rather than make us feel like we have to assimilate to the white people in the community. She would like throw cooking classes and make Bollywood dances and try to educate, not integrate. That was always her thing. She's like I want people to know what it's like rather than trying to like get us to just be like all the kids at school. So I think just having that like base, I like didn't really think that it was a big deal, because all I kept thinking was I'm now bringing home a man and I haven't ever brought home a guy to my parents house. That's all I kept thinking.

Speaker 2: 9:14

I was not even thinking oh well, he's black, that's why he's asking this. My whole thing was he's a man and I've never brought home a guy from like that I've been dating ever. So I think that was what I kept thinking and I was just like I don't think it matters. He shows up at the house like comes in obviously not shows up, but comes in and my mom is just like open arms, like oh my gosh, you guys got to stay for dinner and she's just like I'm cooking up a storm. She makes like full smorgasbord of things like butter, chicken, homemade naan, mutter, paneer, like literally everything under the sun Chole. Like she's like five, six dishes in and she's like I'm making a feast Like out of nowhere. First of all, how does this woman have all this food in the house? That's just like ready to go. Second of all, like that's just her love language.

Speaker 2: 10:10

And I think from then on, like it was like he was always welcome into our home at what my dad was pretty much like because my parents aren't together, my dad was also pretty easy convinced on this, like it wasn't like I had to convince him, it was more like I had to just be like hey dad, like I'm dating someone.

Speaker 2: 10:29

You want to meet him and we met by a FaceTime first, just because, again, my dad lives far away, so we were able to just chat and he was just like he talks really fast first of all because he talks notoriously fast and he was a really nice person. He was like he's really smart and he's bright. It was never about him being black or a different culture or anything really. It was just that he was a really smart person and he vibed with my personality. When my dad met him in person, it was like he was always there. It wasn't like it was weird to have a person there, another man in the house. It was like, oh, like he's here, that makes sense, like he's just kind of fit into every crevice of our house where it wasn't weird. I don't have to describe it in any other way.

Speaker 1: 11:28

Yeah, I mean, that's the dream, right, where we don't have to think about it and we're not living with this pressure of like you're 25 and you're a spinster, you must get married and like. There must be this type of person that we choose. And what are other people going to say? Like, that's the thing a significant portion of our community still lives with, and so it's refreshing to hear someone who didn't have to go through that and could confidently go through dating and just be like, focus on is this a good person? Do I like them? Do I want to hang out with them? Like, am I having fun? What a thought.

Speaker 1: 12:01

Instead of like, oh my God, like what are my parents going to say? If I like, continue, you know, because like, there's this bogging down that happens when all these cultural expectations are there and you can't even focus on dating, and then you definitely can't focus on like is this the right person? How do I know this person is the one? Like? That thought gets buried behind 500 questions. So, since you got to have a more ideal dating situation, how did you know that your husband was the one?

Speaker 2: 12:35

I think. So I'll just tell you how I told him that I loved him and I think that kind of explains a lot. I like because at the time I was working during my internship, so I was working from home with a community center and Keem was staying over that day and just like, working on his laptop. He was also doing work, but he was working on his laptop in the kitchen and I was like, okay, I got to go buy I love you and like just ran away and then I sat in the office and I was like, fuck, I just told this guy that I loved him and I didn't even like make it a big deal and I felt so silly. And then I just was like, okay, just like, walk it off. He didn't even hear you, he didn't hear you. And then I drop him off later that day and he's like okay, bye, I love you.

Speaker 2: 13:25

And I was like, what did you just say? He's like well, you told me earlier. And I was like, well, I accidentally said he's like so, you didn't mean it. I was like, no, I meant it. I just like I didn't want it to go like that. So I think that like it felt so natural being with him Like it wasn't like so formal and it wasn't so like we have to do thing.

Speaker 2: 13:54

We have to go on dates, we have to go do it. It was just like we were just in each other's space, like enjoying each other, and that's how I just knew that like I could spend the rest of my life with this person because he, he fits. He fits into, like, my family, I fit into his family, which I think is also a big deal, because family was something that we both shared as, like one of our core values. It was about family at the end. Like I think, when we think about what will people say, it's more like what will they say about us Because they're so excited about that love.

Speaker 2: 14:30

Like I think there's that piece of it that's really unique. Like when I met his parents, it was like I came home. It wasn't like I like had yeah, read it sweet, I don't know it. Just like it wasn't like I had to like, like it seems so normal. Like I was like, oh, like I'm just going over to my other house. Like it wasn't forced. Like you know, we were only supposed to like go over there and have dinner, and then we ended up staying the night and like it was just like okay, well, I guess we're just staying.

Speaker 2: 15:05

I didn't bring any clothes, so I basically just like woke up and like my makeup was all over my face and I'm like, yeah, this is who I am now, this is me, this is me, like hair everywhere and my makeup's all over my face and I'm definitely not wearing underwear now because it's all like dirty. So like here we are and like showing up to that, just it just felt like I was at home, like I didn't have to try and like I think that was something again, it's just unique, like when we think about our parents just accepting both of us very easily. I know in the past, like my sister she had dated someone who was black in the past and they had they always like, said like oh, you brought home someone exotic and Keem's family was never like that. They were just like come, come, come, come, come and like come in, come in, sit down, like eat, do what you need to do, and like I'm a very helpful person. So I'm always like, oh, I'll help in the kitchen.

Speaker 2: 16:11

But I think that comes from like that deep rooted like girls are supposed to help in the kitchen. But Keem is very helpful, like beyond anything I've ever seen. Like he is the person that's like you put down a spoon to like stir something and he's like I picked it up already and I'm like I was using that he's cleaning stuff like as it goes, kind of thing. And so it was his parents like saw that too, where we just blended and were like in a simpatic of each other's space very quickly. And I also met his parents after like a month of dating. Like it was very quick, like it wasn't like oh, like we'll wait a couple months. He was like, do you want to be my parents? And I was like, are you sure that's a good idea?

Speaker 1: 16:59

And he's like well, I met your mom already.

Speaker 2: 17:00

I, like, would know her for over a month. Now I'm like you're right, you're right, like you're completely right.

Speaker 1: 17:09

Definitely and there's there's something to be said about a relationship being easy, because I think people want it to be complicated. I think there's a lot of people that go out there dating and, yes, like, obviously the cultural aspect can be complicated depending on your family, but like the two of you should not be that difficult. It should actually just kind of feel like water flowing, like, yeah, you have your bumps and here and there, but like even those you just like flow through them, you're like it's gonna be fine and it's easy and we blend together and we melt together and it works. Because sometimes I see people and I think people want to push the narrative of like relationships are so hard and marriage is so hard, and I think there's a generation that was just like one.

Speaker 1: 18:00

If you had an arranged marriage, like yeah, marriage was hard, especially if you didn't like them. But also, even if you grew up, like in the US, and you know you got married, there was still a culture 50 years ago of basically marrying your neighbor or like whoever lived in your neighborhood and women were housewives and you had to get married so a man could take care of you. And so, like I find Gen X really and boomers push this narrative of like the ball and chain and, like you know, happy wife, happy life, and I'm like it's just like not interesting anymore to even hear it, because you see people like yourself and so many, so many millennials who are in like very like happy relationships that are not that complicated. We're not like fighting all the time and when things are hard like you just get through them because that's life and it's not like a drag to be married. If anything, it's like really fun and exciting and a good time all around.

Speaker 1: 19:00

I would say I highly recommend getting married. It's a good life choice. So it's nice to hear like that that can be a reality, because I think there's still a lot of young people who will almost force to make a relationship that isn't working work, especially when there's like in their head this like ticking time bomb that if they don't like settle down now, like I'll never find someone and like it's just supposed to be hard. And I'm like it's not, like I don't want people like I argue all the like we argue all the time. I'm like that's weird, why are you arguing?

Speaker 2: 19:36

about.

Speaker 1: 19:37

Yeah, Like maybe that makes me judgy, but like I'm like I've been with my husband for eight years and I'm like wait, I really don't argue that much Like once in a while, and even then we kind of resolve it within like the day, probably within the hour.

Speaker 2: 19:50

Yeah, like we're going to bed angry, like that's the rule, like no going to bed angry, like if you do, then you just kind of have to like Wake up and be like I love you, love each other.

Speaker 1: 20:01

Yeah, you wake up. Yeah, exactly, I'm like, I'm still mad at you, but I do still love you and we need we need to talk about it, okay.

Speaker 2: 20:11

Yeah, maybe you need to process Exactly, exactly. I think that, like for me it was like dating was always complicated because I was not a very traditional Indian. Like my parents, like they were an arranged marriage and they were divorced. Like they got divorced when I was 21. It's been over 10, 15 or 12, 12 years now, so it's been quite a bit of time and like that's unique for Indian parents to just like go and get divorced and like be like we're done with each other and both of my parents remarried and like found love and it was like real love. Like my mom and her husband.

Speaker 2: 20:59

Like I Don't even understand like how someone can love someone so much Until I met them like and lived with them and actually seeing what, what it meant to be a partner with, like an individual. Because like when I growing up, like my mom stayed at home and my dad was working he's a physician, so he was a surgeon like he was working all the time and my mom was our primary care provider, like she was the one that was like taking you to school. I'm making sure that you have activities, whatever, like dance classes to swimming lessons, to soccer like she was just there, you know, and I think that that's like what I carried for so long until I like Realize that you know, love doesn't have to look like this and that's not a partnership is it's. It was very different when I moved back to my mom's place and being like oh, I Never thought that this is what it actually meant to be in a partnership. It like didn't click to me until I saw her and her husband together, and I think that that again is something that is a very unique situation, like she's also in an interracial relationship, like her husband's wife, and so that's why it never like even occurred to me that being a different race was a problem or within the community, like my parents never made it a big deal and my mom never made it a big deal because it wasn't.

Speaker 2: 22:41

At the end of the day, it's, it's, it's a skin color, and understanding the, the sort of Challenges that come with being a different skin color, has to come from societal view, like the society's view of what it means to be that, rather than it being like oh well, my parents think that, you know, being black is wrong, or like ugly or whatever, but ultimately that's not the reality, right? It's like. Yeah, of course that's. It's just what people like put into our heads. Like I know, like when I was younger I had a family member kind of just tell me that like because I was we always we had a pool growing up, so it was like in the pool summer and she's like, you know, you were so much prettier when you were lighter and I was like oh Gross.

Speaker 2: 23:37

I really cut her from that moment.

Speaker 1: 23:43

Sometimes, I think that's why I struggle with people like I'm like say one thing, that's that stupid, and I'm like I don't have time for this, I just don't.

Speaker 2: 23:52

Right, like no, and I was like teenager growing up and hearing that and I'm just like and telling my mom and then she was like you know, I think you should leave. She like literally told this person to leave our house. Like just like, get out, like do not talk to my children this way. She went full mama bear and like it was just like get out, like immediately, and it was like it wasn't like she just didn't want us to have this rhetoric that like being an Alternate skin tone is a problem. Yeah, that was like very clear growing up.

Speaker 2: 24:27

So like he being black, I think him having this reservation of like do they know I'm black like that was his question Before we even walked in the door I think comes from you know his experiences like growing up in primarily Indian communities and like them clutching their purses and like being scared of him. He's very, very tall. So like he's a big, tall black man and Having this, like you know he's very soft and sweet and like that's just, I think what? Yeah, kind of gathered from how people reacted to him.

Speaker 1: 25:05

Oh, a thousand percent, like that is a totally valid reaction, especially if you grew up around brown people, because yeah, it's brown people.

Speaker 2: 25:13

We hella judgmental. I would call it racist, but you know, yeah, they're judgmental, racist, like they are racist and yeah, Even to themselves, like it's just like. Why are you racist to yourself? I'll speak this other.

Speaker 1: 25:29

This podcast could just be called brown people causing their own problems. I didn't call it that because it's true, like sometimes and Even to admit it makes some brown people really uncomfortable, because I've said on this podcast before, I'm like I, yes, I had a type when I was dating. It was mostly like people who look like my husband, tall, kind of European soccer player, looking ask type. But I'm like, listen, I like men. So I wasn't opposed to dating you know anybody. But I have said on this show, I'm like I wasn't going to Date someone who was black because it wasn't fair to them how they would be treated by my community.

Speaker 1: 26:11

It is not fair. What would happen to them. Like my parents could get over a white person. Because it again it's like the whole, like colorism, like white people are better, like it's whatever. But I was like At least if they're not, at least if they're white, they'll kind of like push through it, whereas like just because of brown people bias. But I'm like it's not fair to bring someone to the situation and then tell them like oh, that's just my culture, can't you? Can we like let it go or like get past it. I'm like I won't get past it. I won't get past someone I love being treated like shit because of the skin, like their skin color. Yeah, it's uncomfortable to say out loud, right? I don't like admitting that, that that was a choice I had to make, but it's the reality.

Speaker 2: 26:59

I, I totally get it like. I think For me it was like my parents were cool, but, like some of my family members were not, and when we were getting married, I like you know people that were very, very close to, like, my parents. I had to like give them a call and tell them exactly why they were not invited or they're not welcome and they were not happy about that. But I was like, look like you have done all these things, you said a lot of things and you are racist, so like you can't come. Yeah, my wedding. And like I just had to be very candid and straight up about it because it was, it's a big deal, like it's like okay, well, I'm marrying someone that's outside of my race, that's black, and this is not going to be tolerated in our life.

Speaker 1: 27:56

We are not going to tolerate it. And here's the line.

Speaker 2: 28:00

Yeah, it's like I now I'm setting a boundary. That is very clear and if you cross that boundary and like talk shit, do whatever, be a racist, you will not be welcome into my life. You are not welcome. Like even now you're not welcome At all, and that was something that I was very clear about and it was a lot for me to like. You know, come to that like kind of being like, yeah, this is fucking crazy. I had to like be like I have to talk to all these family members and like give them a personal call and tell them that they're racist, essentially because they were throwing huge fits about us not inviting them, like talking a bunch of shit within the family, being like, oh, we're not invited their wedding, we're not invited wedding, and just kind of getting Crazy about it.

Speaker 1: 28:51

Yeah, you know, if you're gonna talk shit, don't come. Thank you, like that's the bottom. Like I don't care if you're racist, I don't care. Like, if you can't be happy for me on my wedding day, don't come.

Speaker 2: 29:04

Like don't come out of obligation, I don't need it. Like please don't come out of obligation and also you're going to come and talk shit.

Speaker 1: 29:10

Anyway, brown, people love doing that. They go to weddings and all they do is complain about everything wrong.

Speaker 2: 29:15

I know, I'm just like can't you just be?

Speaker 1: 29:17

happy. Why is this so hard for you? I?

Speaker 2: 29:21

can't. I know it's craziness. So I think like, just like, even I had to sort of talk about that, like what are we going to do with like family members that I know are racist, that have said racist things? Like what are we going to do about it? And I think we came to that sort of conclusion that I was like we're not inviting them and like I have to like essentially, just be the adult in mind, like with my family, instead of being like, ok, they're like older than me, they like they are the adult here, but realistically, the way that they act, they act like, you know, teenagers and children, yeah, essentially like they're like you know we're, we're right because we're older, and it's like, no, you're not, like you're a racist bitch, like back off.

Speaker 2: 30:13

Like back off, like my family, like I have a brown family and I have my black family and they love each other, like that's, that's the bottom line. Like my parents and Keem's parents. They are like like my mom and Keem's mom, like we call them the moms. They are like one entity because they talk. They talk all the time. They're like buddies and like that is our family. The people that like have things to say about us like they can, just, like you know, go over there and sit in their corner and stare at the walls and, you know, never talk to anyone again because like they don't deserve it.

Speaker 2: 30:53

They don't deserve to have that love come into their, their space, because they don't, they don't, they don't soothe that same love.

Speaker 1: 31:00

Yeah, and you know there's a I think, a lot of people in these situations. We, there is a point where you have to accept that your community will be a little bit smaller, but it becomes like a quality over quantity thing Cause I think it's like, oh, you'll lose your community, and here's the thing you will. They're just like you said. There are some people that you're just like we're going to put you over there and we might never talk to you again. That's fine, but then the people you have around you are such like genuine, real relationships that it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1: 31:36

But our community cause we come from. This like community based culture will make you think it's the end of the world, that if you lose so many people that you will fall apart and the reality is you won't but also you'll be surrounded by people you can actually count on. Yeah, in a way that a lot of I think not a lot, but many South Asian social relationships can be quite superficial and obligatory instead of like genuine and authentic. And I found, just like you, like I've had to, like you know, draw some lines and push some people out of my life, but I have genuine, authentic relationships all around me now in a way that before I didn't, and I'm quite all right with that and we have people we call family. That might not even be related to us, but they are more a part of our lives than the people we, you know, share some genetics with.

Speaker 2: 32:35

Yeah, it's a. I really like that quality over quantity. I think that when we look at our community in general, it's always about like more, more, more, more, more more.

Speaker 2: 32:47

We always want everything in excess, whether it's like we don't go out to the store and you're buying like four heads of cauliflower, or you know you're inviting like a billion people to your wedding, that's all like the quantity piece. And then when you look at the actual quality, that's stuff that like that's gonna last, that's those like everlasting things, that it's like those things were always there, but they were just kind of what's the word I'm looking for? Like sort of subdued by the amount of people that were there. The amount of like there was just too many people there to like you to notice those little quality pieces and like I definitely like I think our wedding sort of like hyper focused on that, was just like us having quality over quantity. Yeah, we were so, so very specific about who was going to be coming. They, like you know, we basically just were like texting people invites, like we gave them an invite like, yeah, like a paper invite.

Speaker 2: 33:55

It was like here, here's the website that we made, and it was via text. So it was like very like open in that sense, Like we could text these people, our things and be like this is what we're doing this day, go like kind of, rather than it being like oh, here's this formal invite, go ahead and decide if you want to come or not. It was like no, you're coming because you want to.

Speaker 1: 34:19

I mean think of how many brown people invited people to their wedding whose phone number they don't have to text, because there's a lot of those. Listen, I'm a big proponent of the small wedding. I get it the big, glamorous Indian weddings. They are beautiful, stunning and if you get to have one, good for you. But my favorite weddings I've been to are the less than a hundred people weddings because every single person in that room is so freaking, hyped for the bride and groom and, like you said, it's like a concentration of that support and love and joy that doesn't get diluted by, like the extra people, which like love being that extra person invited to a wedding. But the weddings where I went and I was like this is so much fun, like this is the best time because you can feel the joy in that room. Yeah, and it's not getting diluted.

Speaker 2: 35:21

Definitely Like I think, like we still did, like the whole shebang, like it was very, very beautiful, thanks to my mom and her husband like they were like we're paying for the wedding.

Speaker 2: 35:32

I was like, okay, and they're like, just go for it, just do what? Exactly what you would do if you're having a big wedding. So they were like, just have like everything that you want there because it's your wedding. It doesn't have to be about like the amount of people that are there, it just has to be about how you feel about it. And everybody had the best time.

Speaker 2: 35:54

Like I think every single person after the wedding was like this was the best wedding we've ever been to, because, like we planned it as in a way that we did our singeeth as like more of like a mixer, so it was like everybody's gets to talk and like we did like little prompts and like games and stuff like that to like make people feel like they were in our family, like they obviously were in our family but, like you know, they were in our village essentially.

Speaker 2: 36:24

And then, when it came to the wedding, like we actually seated people like with people that they may have not met before. So we just did it based on personality. And I'm telling you, we walked into the room and everybody is talking, like the room is like booming with like laughter and conversation because every single table was talking to each other and it wasn't because they knew each other from like you know. They're like oh, we place could even friends, my friends. It was like mix everyone and the room was like booming loud. So we were like we wanted to create like a village for us. That was ours, that reflected us, that was a guide about that quality piece of it and I think our community doesn't really like it doesn't go for the quality and I it. Just it's so obvious when you go into spaces and you're like why are there so many people here?

Speaker 2: 37:24

Why are there so many people here? And why, like, who is this person Like? And they're like, oh, you know, like I met them, like you know, I met their dad way back like in whatever the seventies and I've known them for so long and that's it. And it's like who are you Like? Why are you here? Like what, what? What is your purpose here? Like you don't have a purpose here, your purpose is that you're just present.

Speaker 2: 37:53

Like that sounds stupid to me. It doesn't like it doesn't give you that place that it that like you get to have that warmth of people and like even just even my Indian family that like lives in India. They are like in love with Hadeem, they are like so cool with him, and that's again, I think, something that just I don't even know where this comes from, because most people in India are not that tolerant, at least from what I know. When I lived in South India, like it was not like they would call me North Indian slut and stuff like that, like regularly, because they could tell I was Punjabi. They could tell like I don't look South Indian, I look like I'm from the North.

Speaker 1: 38:45

Yeah, and so I think to some extent that is changing a bit. I mean, yeah, I grew up in a village in India and it can still feel really backwards, but we've had tons of guests here that are that grew up in India, but they grew up in cities and stuff and they'll tell you that and there are parts of India that are more progressive than some of the families raised us here. So, not to discredit the change that is happening there, but yeah, you're right, like we all still live with the like differences in both sides, because almost we have two different cultures. If you grew up in the West, I guess you could say versus like in some part of South Asia. But one thing you said that like I think a lot of people, especially tuning in, they're listening to this and they want that right, they want this to be the outcome.

Speaker 1: 39:37

But one thing it's not impossible but, like you said, it's a very intentional decision to make that your life, because it's not just like, okay, your parents were totally fine with it, great, but like their intentional choices being made here were like the way you set up your wedding or choosing to only invite the people who are happy for you. You know kind of forcing people together, because I've talked about that on this show as well where, as much as I like to portray like my life with Michael as ideal, part of it was a conscious decision and we've done it through family gatherings and friends giving and holiday gatherings where we just force everybody in the room together with activities and we're like figured out and over the years they have figured it out and that's why we get to have this life. It didn't just like happen and I think just the thought of like is it possible to make it happen is daunting enough for some people to just feel like super overwhelmed at like what that could look like.

Speaker 2: 40:41

Yeah, I think that was something that Kidim and I talked about when we because we moved in together, we bought a house together before we got married and we just talked about like how we would be able to like blend our life. So, like you know, just having those intentional conversations with your partner, I think it's just you have to do it and figure out like how you want to live that life together, whether it's, you know, like I set up, like you know, diaz for the volley and like put out, like I have, we have a little Munder in the house that like sits downstairs in the basement but it comes out like when we do things. You know, I asked him like what kind of artwork he wants in the house. So we have, you know, very like you know, we have some African art sitting there that he really loves.

Speaker 2: 41:34

That like it's about like blending us together and making a really good smoothie rather than, like you know, shaking it up and trying to make a margarita and like yeah, like create something new, yeah, and like having that space where we're talking about things and being very candid about it, like I think he at one point in time I was like, oh, like, we can go to India. Like trust me, my cousins are super cool, like they're like, they're from, like they're from Delhi, they're not gonna be upset with you and stuff like that. He's like I know, but like it's not safe for me there. And I was like in certain places it's not safe for me either. And he's like but my experience is going to be different. And I was like at first I was like mad. I was like you can't say that, like you're not being tolerant, like you're not learning about this, like I was mad at him for it. And then, like we had another discussion about it and just actually like look like there is colorism in India, Like you have to admit it. Like there is, like there's not just colorism but there's casteism and all this stuff. That puts me at the bottom of that barrel, no matter what.

Speaker 2: 42:51

And we have to be okay with it in a sense that like we can't just like be oblivious when we show up there and being like, yeah, this is my very tall black husband that's showing up in India and everyone's not gonna stare at him. That's a huge lie. Everyone will stare at him and how, like? How will he feel? You know, he's six, five, which is the average Indians. Like five, eight, like he's quite much taller than them, but he's also like very tall black men. Like people are going to stare at him. Even now, like when we walk around, people stare at us Like they're like, who are they? Why are they together? Are they like who are they? And then we're like holding hands and swinging around, like just trying to like make it normal for us, because people are like staring. We're like, well, let's just give them some to stare at.

Speaker 2: 43:48

But in India you can't do that Like you can't. There's lines there that you just can't cross. Like even like he's very affectionate, so like we can't like kiss in public and stuff like that, because it does like raise these flags. That puts him at a target. And we had to have conversations like that and being really open and candid about it. That, I think, is something that we were. Again, it was intentional. Everything comes with intent. So I think that, like, as an Indian, it's hard to admit and be like yeah, there's like we do discriminate, like there is discrimination within our own people, within other, like within discriminating against, like North versus South, like there was so much stuff and even just like coming to that conclusion was a lot for me, where I was like holy shit, like I questioned a lot of like the things that I felt about being Indian.

Speaker 1: 44:53

Yeah, so did you guys end up going to India?

Speaker 2: 44:58

Not yet. We're hoping to go next year because we wanted to like. I think we ended up buying a house and being like we have to save the money for like our life, and so next year is kind of the goal, but we'll see how it goes. It just depends on the visas right now for Canadians to get over there.

Speaker 2: 45:19

But it is something that like we want to do sooner than later, just because I want him to experience it and I wanted to meet my Indian family that I like I love, like I stayed with them for a little bit while I was living there too. I want him to meet all those people that mean so much to me and like they're so like ready to meet him. Like I think I get a call from my cousin like pretty much every couple of days where it's like when are you coming? When are you coming to India, which is again very sweet, and like, just she just wants to meet him so badly like in person, which I think again is I'm so lucky in that.

Speaker 1: 46:05

So for someone who is kind of in your boat, right, their partner is black and they're not sure if they can take them to India, and your husband obviously voiced those concerns Kind of, how did you shift from kind of like obviously validating his concerns but then also convincing him to like we should still go?

Speaker 2: 46:28

Um, I think he is. He was convinced because, like, he realized that it was really important to me. Um, like, we do do a lot of like the Hindu holidays and stuff like that, just cause, like I grew up doing that, like again, my mom was never about integrating, it was always about educating. So we were like it was very much like a part of our like stuff. Like this year was my first garbage old. Then, like, he was like, do I fast? And I was like, if you want to, um, and he ended up fasting a majority of the day. I was like, oh, you didn't eat anything. He's like I had breakfast. I was like, okay, you were fasting. Like, how are you alive? I'm barely alive. So how are you alive? Um, but, like he was, it wasn't really like a. I had to convince him In a sense that it was like he had to sort of hear what I validated, being like, yes, she recognizes this, so we can now go because she knows the risk and I know what's important to her.

Speaker 2: 47:40

I want to see these things that are important to her, um, to see this world. That it's completely different when you go to India and you experience it from that perspective, rather than it being like, this is what it looks like in movies. It's totally different, it's a different world, um. So I think for him it was like I me validating him, was the way that he got that sort of buy in, be like okay, like she knows now.

Speaker 1: 48:09

So we can go yeah, okay, yeah, because I think that's really important where it's like we can have these reservations and concerns and acknowledge like yeah, that's like definitely something we have to factor in and then at least that will help you build a path forward. Cause, even in like in general, like regardless of this trip, like that's kind of how relationships work, right, it's like you have to just understand someone's concerns, let's talk through them and then we work with it, versus, like that initial reaction of wanting to be like no, but this is important to me, why are you being like this? Cause, yeah, your perspective of almost creating that third culture that is completely different from each of you individually is important. Cause sometimes I feel like people go into these interracial relationships and it becomes like this weird competitive like, oh well, like I'm brown and my culture is this big, but in this country it's smaller. So now I have to like take over yours and like not give you the space, and it's like let's all relax, let's all acknowledge the pros and the cons of both of our cultures, because there's good, bad and ugly on all sides. It doesn't matter where you're from.

Speaker 1: 49:28

And then, kind of moving forward, because there are there's a lot of South Asians who don't want to acknowledge that, like there are flaws in our culture, or it's like well, it didn't happen to me, so I don't have to like whatever. Or like, oh well, I just married a brown person, so I have to deal with it, and it's just like yeah, but that doesn't solve the problem. It just means you can wipe your hands of it. Yeah, oh, my God, this solves nothing for anybody. But okay, okay, sure, yeah.

Speaker 2: 49:56

Like you're not solving anything, or like I have a lot of friends that are in interracial relationships and it's almost that like integration piece of it because they don't know a lot about their Indian side. And it's not that education piece and it's not that blending of the culture that like to me, like if culture is important to you, if you're like religion or your like background is important to you, you have to bring that into the relationship and the values piece of it has to be the forefront, whether it's, you know, like he's like very family oriented, like he's all about his parent, like his mom and his family, and he saw that same thing in me, which is a huge Indian value too. It's not just like you know his Jamaican values, that's an Indian value. So like picking from what he sees as our values and using those things as commonalities and similarities, rather than it being like my brown culture is like there's a lot of it. There's, like you know, we have colors and bells and whistles and marigolds everywhere. And you know Jamaican culture.

Speaker 2: 51:20

It's about the values at the end, because it's primarily a Christian place but King's not a religious person, so religion was not a part of his like value piece that he wanted to carry forward. It was more like well, we do these things to be together. Like we're going to do Christmas because it's about being together. We're going to do, you know, easter because it's about being together and I'm open to it because I'm like, well, we do all my stuff, like we're going to do a little prayer and do the Bali, we're going to do garbha joth, we're going to do like holy parties and stuff like that. Why wouldn't I welcome that stuff and be in it with him, just like he's in it for me?

Speaker 2: 52:12

Those values and that integration. It's not like it has to be educating each other to in that space. It's not just like, oh yeah, like here's my stuff, here's your stuff.

Speaker 1: 52:25

And now we have to like, puzzle each other.

Speaker 2: 52:27

Yeah, yeah, for sure this is why we do this, like last year when we did the Bali, we did like a, we did a prayer, but I actually found one on YouTube that was in English Same like pudgen style prayer, but in English, so then he could read it and actually understand what's going on.

Speaker 1: 52:48

So that was really like, like many of us would like to read and understand, because we all sit here and pretend we understand, Please. I did my wedding ceremony. I was like I don't really know what's happening. We're just going to roll with it. Like, let's go with it. I know the steps and why we do them, but like, what are they saying? Lord knows?

Speaker 2: 53:03

I speak with Drathi. I don't speak Sanskrit.

Speaker 1: 53:05

Yeah, yeah, I don't know, just roll with it.

Speaker 2: 53:07

You know yeah.

Speaker 1: 53:10

But then there's like the people who will complain like, oh, they did it in English. I'm like you don't even know what it means in Sanskrit, so what are you mad about? Yeah, Just be glad you understand it now.

Speaker 2: 53:19

Like exactly it's like it's about creating space that is like accessible in a sense. Yeah, and I think it's craziness to think that, like people think that it has to be one way and that's the only way in order for it to be traditional. Yeah, like that's not true.

Speaker 1: 53:40

And also like that it can change, like culture is not stagnant, it's not stationary, like it evolves and it changes. And this can't like. Sometimes it feels like South Asians, like they want to like hold on to this culture that a lot of them barely understand as it is, especially if you grew up in the US and then, like, no one's allowed to question it and I'm like sweetie, sweetie, you barely get what you're talking about. Now we're going to tell people they don't, they have to ask questions correctly, or you don't have to answer them or you don't have to explain it, and it just like, like this is not building bridges, you're just being a pain, yeah exactly.

Speaker 1: 54:22

Like you just want to like say you're better than people, but you don't actually want it Like you want, so I live in the US. Like you want people here to embrace South Asian culture, but it has to be on your terms, apparently, instead of just like letting them do it the best they can, and over time it will evolve and become a part of the community.

Speaker 2: 54:42

Exactly, I think. Like I went to a wedding earlier this year and it was like so clinical, like it was like oh, like, this person has to meet this person and they have to do this. And then they and it's like why are you? What is this Like? They're like oh well, like you have to make sure that you're tying this on this person.

Speaker 1: 55:05

It's like what, why, why, and they can't tell you why. They can't tell you, they don't know. They don't know, because that's how it is the way it is yeah, that's how it is, so you thought I should do it yeah. Shut up.

Speaker 2: 55:17

Like please, just like stop because, like you're doing too much, you're not actually like enjoying the process. All you care about is these like traditions that are not even like they have no validity, they have nothing, you have no connection to them. So, like when Keem and I got married, we actually just exchanged Jamalas and we did a like a very civil ceremony, like it was actually like we got our moms to speak at the ceremony to explain, like different parts of our culture what a Jamala was, and we jumped a broom at the end, which is a very Jamaican culture, like really like it's focused in slavery because they couldn't exchange rings or anything like that. So they would jump a broom as, like their first steps as a married couple. So we did that together and had the whole like everybody understood what we were doing because we explained it. We just gave them that education piece Like oh, we're exchanging Jamalas because this is a part of Hindu culture that, like you exchange garlands because they're coming from the two different sides, you exchange, you're giving yourself each other's houses, essentially in that space, and you know, jumping the broom comes from this like group slavery.

Speaker 2: 56:33

So we did all those things to again educate and we told everyone why. Like during the ceremony, we had our moms explain it. So it was like that education piece has to be there and it doesn't have to be like I'm going to educate them and tell them exactly. It's like no, like you educate with the intention of blending it and it's not about like oh, like this is the way that Indians do it, so we have to do it the Indian way, or this is the way that you know Jamaicans do it. We have to do it the Jamaican way. It's like no, we can blend things together, but we have to at least give intention as to why.

Speaker 1: 57:13

Definitely, totally agree with all of that. My last question is always the same to all of my guests If you could leave them with a piece of advice or some words of wisdom, what would it be?

Speaker 2: 57:30

I had a tough time with this because, like, my advice is like, really to be honest and stand your ground. If there's really something there between you and your partner Values is your most important part of your relationship, and it's not just between you and your partner, it's between you and your families. How do those values coincide with your partner and their family and their values? Having those commonalities brings you to a place where you're able to have peace. I think if you find the commonalities of peace and those values, you will have a very smooth ride because you know what the big deal is. My mother-in-law always says, like, don't forget, the main thing is the main thing, love that. So I took that advice. When we originally met, she was like the main thing is the main thing. You're like got it, yeah.

Speaker 1: 58:35

And so you can name the main thing.

Speaker 2: 58:36

I've been stuck by that for the last three years.

Speaker 1: 58:40

Love it. If people wanted to find you online, where could they find you?

Speaker 2: 58:46

So my dietitian handle is pesky veggies. It is just going through different nutrition places I focus quite a bit with, again, south Asian communities and body culture and body image. I've noticed that a lot of women in that space they tend to want to look like something but not actually looking at their realistic pieces of Indians, have different body compositions and actually having that. So my page quite a bit focuses on that and really that food freedom piece, that Indian food is not bad for you. It's just a matter of white people saying that it's always bad for you, or at least Western culture saying that it's bad for you. So that's my page. Check it out, fun times Lovely.

Speaker 1: 59:39

I will tag off that below. Thank you so much for being a guest. Thanks so much, Tisha. It's great meeting you. Thanks so much for tuning in guys. Make sure if you enjoyed this episode you leave us a review on iTunes. You can find the show on all major streaming platforms. You can find me on Instagram at DishaMazeppa. You can shop my Etsy shop, Disha Mazeppa Designs. Find out everything you want to know about this show at DishaMazeppacom, and if you or someone you know would like to be a guest, you can email bwpspodcast at gmailcom. And I'll see you guys next time. Bye, this podcast is hosted and produced by Disha Mastry Mazeppa. The show was created by Crackswell.