This week on the Legally Speaking Podcast, our host Rob Hanna is joined by Samantha Treleaven, the Wellbeing Lawyer. Samantha is passionate about all things Wellbeing and focuses on this sector within the wider umbrella of Retail & Consumer. Specialist areas of her include Health & Fitness, Beauty & Wellness and Food & Drink (including Active Nutrition). Clients include: Sweaty Betty, Rapha Racing, WIT, Huel, and lots more.
In this episode, we discuss:
This week on the Legally Speaking Podcast, our host Rob Hanna is joined by Samantha Treleaven, the Wellbeing Lawyer. Samantha is passionate about all things Wellbeing and focuses on this sector within the wider umbrella of Retail & Consumer. Specialist areas of her include Health & Fitness, Beauty & Wellness and Food & Drink (including Active Nutrition). Clients include: Sweaty Betty, Rapha Racing, WIT, Huel, and lots more.
In this episode, we discuss:
[0:00:00.0] Rob Hanna: Welcome to the Legally Speaking Podcast powered by Kissoon Carr. I'm your host, Rob Hanna. This week I’m delighted to be joined by Samantha Lewis best known as The Wellbeing Lawyer. Samantha is passionate about all things wellbeing and focuses on this sector within the wide umbrella of retail and consumer. Specialist areas of hers include health and fitness, beauty and wellness and food and drink, including active nutrition. Clients include a wide range including Sweaty Betty, Rapid Racing, WIT, Huel and lots more. So, welcome Sam.
[0:00:33.7] Samantha Lewis: Thank you Rob, nice to be here.
[0:00:34.6] Rob Hanna: You may or may not know but we have a regular question on the Legally Speaking Podcast that we ask to you real life lawyers and on the scale of one to ten, ten being very real, how real do you rate the TV series Suits?
[0:00:50.5] Samantha Lewis: So, it’s a mix, I guess. You’re currently in my office so the tall buildings, the glass windows, yeah, is kind of similar. The arrogance and the attitudes that go with it is slightly less so we’re all actually quiet, you know, I’m assuming good people that’s why we’re lawyers. No, no, we don’t tackle people in the street and try and shake things out of them or intimidate them but equally having said that, I guess the transactions are similar. We do things from huge transactions to small transactions, pro bono work, we’ve got all the characters here. So, I don’t know, maybe a five.
[0:01:35.6] Rob Hanna: A five. I think it’s levelling out as five across the series.
[0:01:37.9] Samantha Lewis: Right.
[0:01:38.3] Rob Hanna: I think, some people have been giving a one, a ten or some people like you in the middle. So, I think that’s probably a fair synopsis. So, before we talk about all the great stuff that you have been doing on the wellbeing side, tell us a bit more about you, your background and sort of why you wanted to go into law.
[0:01:55.0] Samantha Lewis: So, my way into law is a slightly unconventional one. So, I actually did what I did at at school - I was in a lot of the sports teams. I did a lot of dancing and ended up deciding at 18 to either go down the academic route or the dancing route. Ended up going to fulltime dance school to go and be a professional ballet and contemporary dancer. So, I trained at Laban Conservatoire of dance of music in Greenwich following which I toured around with my ballet company for years. So, had a great run of going round Europe with a great group of people performing most Fridays and Saturday nights to a whole bunch of different people and cultures and I loved that, enjoyed it. Unfortunately got injured when I was about 23 and so I sort of moved into the production side of the industry and ended up taking the dancers on tour and doing a lot of sitting in the lighting box with my headset on, telling people where to go, and through that I then took a lot more of the role of management and looking at for example employment contracts and collaborations with different venues, different composers. So, I worked for a company called Studio Wayne McGregor and he works for the role ballet and it’s a private company. But they often collaborate with really interesting artists whether that be lighting designers or musicians or that could be many different things.
[0:03:40.8] Rob Hanna: Yeah.
[0:03:41.2] Samantha Lewis: So, I started getting little dip into the legal world through that role. From there I took a bit of a step back and tried to think about what I wanted to do next. Loved that I was able to kind of nurture that creative side of myself but equally the next thing I wanted to do, I wanted more of a challenge academically rather than physically. So, at that time, I kind of looked at all of my different options, decided that the best way to figure out – I had this idea of law in my head. I’m not sure where it came from. I think my grandma planted it in my head a long time ago.
[0:04:21.3] Rob Hanna: Do you come from a family of lawyers or?
[0:04:23.6] Samantha Lewis: No, not at all. So, my dad was headmaster of my prep school, he was headmaster for 20 26 years and my mom was the office registrar of the school. So, they shared an office, how they did that for so many years is beyond me. But there we go. So, I had them around me all the time. My brother works in construction. He has his own company and my little sister is fairly fresh out of Uni. So, she just landed up first big role at a marketing agency. So, all very different.
[0:04:57.1] Rob Hanna: A wide mix.
[0:04:57.6] Samantha Lewis: Yeah, yeah, definitely. I remember the day I sat my dad down. I took him out for dinner to say, “Do you what, dad? I know what I’m going to do next. I’m going to go be a lawyer.” And I thought he’d be really happy because, go down a nice solid professional route.
[0:05:13.8] Rob Hanna: Yeah.
[0:05:14.5] Samantha Lewis: Instead he asked me how much it was going to cost him obviously.
[0:05:19.2] Rob Hanna: A straight shooter then he is obviously.
[0:05:19.9] Samantha Lewis: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Largely he was only joking but you know we have a German family so everyone just says what they think, which is actually useful.
[0:05:27.7] Rob Hanna: Yeah.
[0:05:28.6] Samantha Lewis: So, yeah, I actually ended up doing a whole bunch of different legal work experiences. My mum’s good friend kindly let me shadow her at Westminster magistrates’ court. She was district judge there. So, that was very interesting for me and a friend of mines wife worked as an inhouse lawyer at [Debi's Diamonds] and so she let me go in and kind of shadow her in that role. Once I tried all these things. I was like, right okay fine, I want to be lawyer, this is great. So, at that stage I came to Pinsent and did a vacation scheme, really, really loved my time here. Could feel immediately that the culture of the firm was good, very inclusive, very friendly. So, after my vac scheme, they kindly offered me a training contract which meant I was then able to convert my dance degree into law degree by the GDL and then, subsequently I did the LPC. So, it’s two years to train, post my other degree which they paid for. Great, dad’s happy, everyone’s happy. And that was great. Law school is brilliant, you get to meet a whole different bunch of people coming from different backgrounds, particularly on the GDL. I came from ballet. I met people who were musicians, lots of people who did history, tend to move into law. So, yeah, really good couple of years. My dance company were incredibly supportive and they let me work part time and then two days a week, and then one day a week and they are great. They knew that it was something that or at least they felt that it was something that I was going to excel at. So, I had all the support which is great. So, then I finally make it to Pinsent, big scary law firm.
[0:07:19.2] Rob Hanna: Beautiful offices as you mentioned of the top. Yeah.
[0:07:21.4] Samantha Lewis: Beautiful offices, yeah.
[0:07:22.5] Rob Hanna: We’ve got a nice view looking out of the skyline of London. We should probably say that today.
[0:07:25.4] Samantha Lewis: Yeah, exactly that and you know it feels different here than other firms and so, right from day one, they let me do largely what I wanted to do in terms of sector focus. So, I kind of knew by this point, I wasn’t fresh out of Uni, straight into law firm. I’ve worked in office for years and I’ve been in the arts and I kind of knew what I liked and where I was probably going to go.
[0:07:55.4] Rob Hanna: Yeah.
[0:07:56.4] Samantha Lewis: And so, you do different types of laws. So, during your training contract I focused on corporate with the kind of sporting background and ballet background, with corporate law, it’s very much transactions, projects, you have a start, you have a finish. Everyone’s in it together, there is a positive ending largely for most of these transactions rather than contentious work where people are battling.
[0:08:19.8] Rob Hanna: Yeah.
[0:08:20.3] Samantha Lewis: You know, you still have your battle during negotiation but actually largely everyone’s aiming for this collaboration which ends up with a success story at the end. So, that’s why I went into corporate. Retail and consumer wise, I worked a lot with Tom Lehman who is head of [retail] consumer here so a partner in the corporate team. He has a lot of very, very interesting clients. So, people like Sweaty Betty and Rapha who we’ve been working for I think it’s 17 and 20 years respectively now. So, Rapha right from innception through a whole bunch of different funding rounds. We just generally support them with corporate support and many other things across the practices that the firm offer and eventually to an exit. So, we sold them a couple of years ago. And we still work for the company now but it’s that journey that we’re able to take with these really interesting brands is what people like Tom and I find interesting and that’s the thing that we focus on and we work on that day-to-day.
[0:09:26.0] Rob Hanna: Touching on day-to-day, that was what I was going to ask you. What does the day-to-day look like for somebody, the wellbeing lawyer such as yourself, give us a sort of a day in the life and we’ll talk about all the other stuff outside the office but just give us a bit of a snapshot of that.
[0:09:39.2] Samantha Lewis: So, it tends to be really mixed actually. So, I mean, I always train in the morning so first thing is, get up before everyone else does.
[0:09:47.7] Rob Hanna: So, what does that mean? Is that sort of you are a super early person because anything past 6:30 is just too early?
[0:09:52.9] Samantha Lewis: Yeah, yeah, so it depends. My partner would disagree [Unclear] [0:09:59.5] earlier but I rather- I’m same as you, I agree, sleep is good. So, we tend to get up at about half six. Run out, jump on the northern line which is far more pleasant at half past six then it is at like half past eight. So, that’s a good start. So, we head into our gym WITs which is as you mentioned one of our clients.
[0:10:23.7] Rob Hanna: WIT stands for?
[0:10:25.5] Samantha Lewis: Whatever it takes.
[0:10:26.6] Rob Hanna: Love that, love that.
[0:10:27.5] Samantha Lewis: Yeah, yeah, and it is true, it’s a good phrase they’ve got that everyone does live and embody. So, it’s cool. So, we get there for a half seven and we do our programming which – So, we train there every day. So, it’s not really a question of whether you do go, you just go.
[0:10:47.6] Rob Hanna: Yeah.
[0:10:48.4] Samantha Lewis: And the programming is done by the coaches. So you got the head coach there, Gus, who is an incredible personality who – if you see him on the Instagram, he’s just, he oozes the soul of WIT and he programs for us. And we just do what he says and it works and that is fine by me. I don’t have to think about it, no time spent planning, you just do what you’re told and you get stronger and you get fitter.
[0:11:11.0] Rob Hanna: Yeah.
[0:11:10.8] Samantha Lewis: So, everyone is happy. So, yeah, the like of Gus, we got our strength coaches, I won’t name them all but they know who they are. Our gymnastics coaches who, you know, they enable you to do things that you never thought you’d be able to do. Because they believe you can, they know you can. You might not yet but give it six months and suddenly you’re doing them. So, yeah, it’s a really, really, great place to train. I’m sure we’ll talk about training a bit more later but back to day in the life. So, yeah, then it’s a very swift walk over from St Paul’s to the office. Then I tend to have my breakfast here over Email. So, I’ll try and catchup a little bit on industry news and then anything, you just start going really. During the day, so I have my actual physical work that I do which I won’t bore you with. Other than that, lots of meeting of different people. So, in retail and consumer, particularly in wellbeing, it’s all about the network, it’s all about the industry. So, and by that, I don’t mean, you go to a conference and you network as such.
[0:12:21.9] Rob Hanna: Yeah.
[0:12:22.7] Samantha Lewis: It’s more that you as a lawyer are one of many trusted advisors and you have to play that role. It’s not just that you are the lawyer anymore particularly in this sector. I mean, I won’t comment on others but for me you have to be able to effectively be each and every one of your clients inhouse lawyer. They have to feel that you are part of their team and they might have the same with their PR agency or their marketing company. It has to be that, you know, you’re there all the time and that’s how this kind of wellbeing industry forms where you, you know, I hope that I am one of the known go to people in the wellness sector for raising money, general corporate support even if it’s other things. Like if someone needs to protect their brand or register a trade mark or you know they are having problems with an employee. They don’t necessarily know that I’m a corporate lawyer and therefore I can help them get private equity back in or introduce them to a venture capital firm. They don’t know that; I just want them to see me as their gateway to legal services and then I can point them in the right direction when they’re here. So, yeah, lots of meeting and what else do we do? So, today I’ve got a wellbeing event tonight that I’ve been organizing for a little while so I’ve actually been creating little goody bags with my PA for the last hour or so.
[0:13:50.2] Rob Hanna: What’s in them? Come on.
[0:13:50.9] Samantha Lewis: Oh, so much. Honestly, I think they’re the best goody bags that I’ve ever seen.
[0:13:55.6] Rob Hanna: Oh, we’ll debate that. I think at Kissoon Carr we do good goody bags. Come on, what do you reckon?
[0:14:00.1] Samantha Lewis: What have we got? So, we’ve got three classes at third space, three classes at digme, we’ve got a WIT tote bag, we’ve got knocko, we’ve got protein nibbles, we’ve got Huel bars, we’ve got just so much.
[0:14:18.3] Rob Hanna: Okay, you’re winning.
[0:14:21.3] Samantha Lewis: Yeah, I think they’re overflowing a little bit and I’ve only got 80 bags so hopefully there’ll be exactly 80 attendees. We will see.
[0:14:27.8] Rob Hanna: If not, if there’s a 79, there’s a spare one, you can give it to me…
[0:14:31.6] Samantha Lewis: Exactly.
[0:14:32.3] Rob Hanna: Okay, so I just want to unpack because I think it’s amazing what you do and I think a lot of people listening would be fascinated but just how do you do that? You know, I’m thinking of, you know, you’re obviously the top UK international law firm. But maybe people in other firms, U.S. firms where hours are heavier. What do you think have been the benefits and people trying to get inspired by that routine? I’d love to be able to get into that. What benefits have you found from really kind of adopting that as your lifestyle?
[0:14:57.6] Samantha Lewis: So, I think it is exactly that. It is making it part of your lifestyle.
[0:15:00.9] Rob Hanna: Yeah.
[0:15:02.6] Samantha Lewis: Everyone say, “If you get into a routine of it, then you’ll do it.” And that is exactly true.
[0:15:07.2] Rob Hanna: Playing devil’s advocate though because I came from sporting background like you, people maybe haven’t come from so much of a sporting, maybe slightly more academic or whatever it be maybe more of an arts background. What would you say to them tips? And well, you know, it was easy for you, you were always in the netball team, you’re always in the football team. It comes natural to you. What tips would you give to those people in terms of, “Look, get involved.”
[0:15:25.9] Samantha Lewis: Yeah, I would say, you’ve got to find something that works for you.
[0:15:30.8] Rob Hanna: Yeah.
[0:15:30.7] Samantha Lewis: For me that was CrossFit. For someone else, it might be swimming or it might be outdoor running or it might be- So, a prime example that our team, we often go and do kind of corporate team spin, for example. So, we’ve got a good relationship with Digme and we often go down there and that’s everyone from the partners to the PAs, the lawyers, the people in business development. Doesn’t matter, it’s all just- one, it’s a nice thing to do together but two, it’s a good excuse to just get out the office. Go and do a little spin and for people saying that they can’t necessarily do it, like we’ve got a 60-year-old PA who just does it like three four times a week.
[0:16:16.0] Rob Hanna: Wow.
[0:16:17.4] Samantha Lewis: And she is fantastic. Even she came down to WIT with me and she just said to me, “I will try everything, but I can’t do burpees, I just can’t do them.” And I was like, “Do you know what, don’t worry. I will speak to Gus beforehand. He won’t pull you up on it and just like trust him.” And bless her, so, he got her, he broke down the burpee which is effectively lying on the floor and get back up, isn’t it? And that kind of takes you right back to the purpose of some of these movements is if you fall over, can you get back up?
[0:16:51.1] Rob Hanna: Yeah.
[0:16:51.4] Samantha Lewis: And that is something that you want everyone to be able to do whether you’ve been injured or whether you’re just old and fragile, you want everyone to be able to do that. So, by the end of it, it was easy for her. She was doing it. So, yeah, I’d say definitely find something that you connect with, whatever that might be. And giving CrossFit it’s kind of day in the sun that it’s so scalable, you can, you know, you’ve got the athletes in the CrossFit games who are incredible at everything and then you’ve got people who come in. They’ve never done it before in their life and you’re not expected to be able to power clean like a certain, like your body weight or something.
[0:17:33.7] Rob Hanna: Yeah.
[0:17:34.3] Samantha Lewis: I have taken friends in before on the weekend for slightly more relaxed fun kind of partner workouts and they’ve been terrified. And I just said, “Come with me. I’ll show you what to do, I’ll tell you what weight to put on and we’ll go from there.” And we’ve gone in and you know, it’s a big black box, it’s kind of scary, but actually – So, we were doing – me and my friend Daisy, we’re doing thrusters opposite each other. So, I do mine and then she does it with an empty bar bell. And for her, it was perfect and that was sufficient. She was doing it right; she was getting direct coaching. By the end of it, she was knackered but she didn’t feel stupid. She felt good about herself and she’d really enjoyed it.
[0:18:14.2] Rob Hanna: Yeah.
[0:18:14.9] Samantha Lewis: Everyone was incredibly welcoming. You get that community vibe in the fitness industry generally anyway, but CrossFit particularly there’s this inclusiveness which allows for someone to be an athlete on that incredible level and also someone who can’t necessarily do that but just wants to do it for fun and start improving their fitness and cross fit allows for that. So, yeah, find something that you love.
[0:18:43.5] Rob Hanna: And you touched on it earlier in the podcast as well about the sort of tread strengths and training and the programs and everything else and it’s amazing because you are busy in the day job. But do you want to talk us through what that looks like and how that works for you?
[0:18:57.9] Samantha Lewis: So, I think um, I always train in the morning. One because it really gets me ready for my day and often if I don’t and I come straight in, I spend the first half and hour being a bit slow and sleepy and getting into gear whereas, if you’re actually got up, done a class, then you come in energized. And anyone who has, whatever it might be, if they’ve gone and done a reshape class [???] [0:19:26.9] or a spin at Digme, or whatever it might be, they will never come in in the morning and go, “Ah, I feel really tired.” They always feel energized and ready to be productive. So, I think that’s something that I think your bosses and your seniors around you will always be an advocate for because do they want someone who looks a bit sleepy and can’t really be bothered, or do they want someone who is ready and raring to go, they’ve got energy. Obviously, they’re going to take the second option and if the reason for that is because you’ve been out doing some exercise then great.
[0:20:01.5] Rob Hanna: Yeah. If you weren't so much involved in the wellbeing sector, how would you keep motivated? Or how would you be connected to this sort of lifestyle that you adopt?
[0:20:10.1] Samantha Lewis: Yeah, I think –
[0:20:11.2] Rob Hanna: Cause so many aren’t, right?
[0:20:12.3] Samantha Lewis: Yeah, absolutely, so for me I think it’s a tough question because I think either way I would be because I already was. I spent years and years and years spending 10 hours a day or whatever it might have been dancing, practicing, rehearsing, performing, doing pilates, stretching. That was my life so it was drilled into me. So that kind of discipline transfers one over into my work. So, you know, you have that determined very precision based attitude from a completely different thing. But you’re able to transfer over into my legal skills there. But also, you know, that kind of muscle memory and all those other things that you get from a history and sport allows me to do what I do now. So, in terms of would I do it if I wasn't in the wellbeing sector? So, actually, my interest in it has sparked what I do-
[0:21:09.2] Rob Hanna: Yeah.
[0:21:10.3] Samantha Lewis: -in my career. Being a corporate lawyer is what I do. I just have decided to apply it to the sector that I know and understand and love because that benefits everyone. I get to help entrepreneurs in a very close proximity to be able to grow their businesses globally. And I love doing that, and equally for them, they're able to talk their language to their lawyer and I can then translate that to other lawyers who don't necessarily understand it. So, it's a really good segue between your work and your passion.
[0:21:48.9] Rob Hanna: Yeah.
[0:21:50.4] Samantha Lewis: For people who don't necessarily have that, I think as I said the one of the main things is find something that you love. But the other thing is surround yourself with people who you can do it with.
[0:22:03.2] Rob Hanna: And that was a really key point. And I think we mentioned that you kind of alluded to the fact that with your team and you gave that case study, obviously of people going together and doing that. But some people or maybe other law firms where they think, “There's no way these partners are going to get on board with this and there's no way the paralegals or my other associates are going to do that.” So, does it depend on the firm or do you reckon you can influence and inspire people? Because I guess someone's got to take the bet and say, “Look, this is good for business?”
[0:22:28.3] Samantha Lewis: Yeah. And I think there's a couple of points there, isn't it? So, is it the firm? Yes. I think Pinsent are - they put their foot forward in terms of trying to be innovative, to try and empower their juniors, to change things. So, you know, the wellbeing sector at Pinsent didn't exist until now, which is amazing. And tonight, we're launching our offering in the wellbeing space to the industry, which is fantastic. And that has all come because people above me have been proactive. They've been supportive and that's a really, really great thing. I can understand that at other firms it’s difficult and, you know, I’ve actually had many a lawyer message me on Instagram saying, “I don't get it. How are you doing this?”
[00:23:25.07] Rob Hanna: Yeah.
[00:23:26.03] Samantha Lewis: And people also say to me that, this is one of my massive pet peeves is, “Well, you can't be that busy if you're going to the gym.”
[00:23:34.01] Rob Hanna: So, what do you say to that then?
[00:23:35.10] Samantha Lewis: Well, it depends who it is, but you try to draw a comparison. So, let's say, for example, someone, I don't know, had to pick up a kid. So, that's your priority and this is mine. I didn't have a child to collect from nursery. So, you can't be that busy if you didn't pick your child from nursery.
[00:23:53.13] Rob Hanna: Yeah, get that point.
[00:23:55.02] Samantha Lewis: Like it doesn't - I think you have to be able to understand what priorities are to people and accept them, and that's okay. Also, I'm going to the gym at half six in the morning whilst you're sleeping. So actually, there is no difference whether who's busy or who's not. That's not really an attitude that we have here. I'm lucky and that my team are really invested in health and fitness, probably increasingly so, the more I’m kind of open to speaking about it, people see what I'm doing, and I think that does inspire people in the team which is great. I had some guy in my team the other day asked me to give him some tips on, like his strength programming at the gym, because not everyone can go to a nice gym or that they might not have time. So, they might do stuff home or on the weekends. And that was really nice that he felt that he was able to just come up to me and ask me that. And actually, I was able to give him some advice. But I'm not holding myself out to be someone who is able to give, you know, the advice that a coach or a PT could give. But certainly, just a bit of direction and that's really been beneficial to him. We have a health and wellbeing strategy. We’re a purpose led business business now, so we try and, as I said, like, empower people, encourage people to do what works for them and what works for the employees. If you've got someone who's able to do what they need to do to make sure that they're their best them at work, then everyone's winning. The firm is getting more out of their employees. The employees are feeling happier because they're able to do those things that make them happy. And I guess the other thing is also knowing when you can't.
[00:25:42.13] Rob Hanna: Yeah.
[00:25:44.14] Samantha Lewis: You know you might have - and this has happened many a time. You know, you might have a class booked in at seven pm. And you think, do you know what I've got a fairly chilled day today. I could definitely make the 7pm class. It gets to 6:15 and something lands and you can't go. And, yeah, that can be frustrating. Hence, why you should go in the mornings.
[00:26:02.20] Rob Hanna: That's what I was going to say. Particularly if you’re a transactional lawyer, you know, mornings are the best time to go because evenings can get very, very heavy. And I guess what I'm taking away from this as well is you know, if people are prepared to invest in that in the mornings actually, you'd be a lot more energised and actually hitting those seven to 10 chart palates, whatever it might be. You're a lot more motivated and inspired to do that. And you just got a lot more about you, right?
[00:26:22.13] Samantha Lewis: Yes.
[00:26:23.03] Rob Hanna: That's what we're saying for that. Another great thing I noticed you guys did the other month at Pinsent was a sleeping seminar. I know it was really sort of- What’s the sort of some of the top tips you would share to people about that. I mean, some lawyers, transactional lawyers say they are lucky even to get three hours [Overlap] [00:26:36.10] I'm slammed at the minute.
[00:26:37.15] Samantha Lewis: Yeah. And it's a real issue. It is an issue. I think, don't be the lawyer who says, you know, sleep when you're dead, whatever. Like don't encourage that because it's not big and it's not clever and no one thinks any better of you because you slept two hours. That's not what we encourage here. Obviously, there were times when you're trying to complete a deal and you do work horrendous hours and that's just- and it is what it is. And it's the peaks and the troughs of your time and that's why we do it because you get those moments of adrenaline where you are, you know, working towards closing a deal, and that's incredible. What's not incredible is if you're peaking 90% of the time and that's when you know and that's a choice if people want to work at a firm where they have to work like that. Then they're probably well rewarded for it. Here, we work incredibly, incredibly hard but equally not to the detriment of people's health.
[00:27:39.17] Rob Hanna: Yeah.
[00:27:40.19] Samantha Lewis: So, sleep is absolutely key. So there was a time when I first started going out with my boyfriend where he kind of joked that, you know, he only needed six hours sleep, and I maintain that I needed eight.
[00:27:56.22] Rob Hanna: Yeah, I’m a solid eight as well by the way.
[00:27:58.26] Samantha Lewis: Yeah, and he is so onboard now and he gets it. But he had kind of - he'd been doing it for so long that it became normal. And he didn't realize how much better he could feel if he had eight hours all the time. And you just can't always do that if you're working for a big corporate law firm. However, what I'd say is you just with training and watching out for your health and wellbeing in that respect what's useful is if you can try different things. So, let's say, for example, I went to sleep at three am because I've been working on a deal. I'm not going to get up at half past six and go to the half seven class. Firstly, you need the sleep. Secondly, you're going to perform awfully and you're not going to gain anything out of it. And then you’re going get to work and be rubbish, so that doesn't work for you. It doesn't work for your coaches. It doesn't work for your employers. So instead, you've got to shift some stuff around, so it might be that actually, you come in, you get those couple of extra hours sleep. You come in at ten. Everyone knows that you've been up until three am. Or even if they don't, they're not going to question you coming in at ten. Because that's not what we do. Then you know you work however you need to work. Then what I might do is go after the gym at five. Go and do a quick like HIT class, something that's no too taxing, but something that'll just reenergize you a bit. Then I'll probably go home and work all evening.
[00:29:27.28] Rob Hanna: Yeah.
[00:29:29.11] Samantha Lewis: Obviously, for some people, that sounds horrendous. For me, it's not. It's just what we do. But at least then you’ve still been to the gym. You’ve still reenergized yourself. You've taken a break because you know, being a lawyer, it is mentally challenging. You do have to focus. There are complex issues that you have to kind of unpick. It's not obviously some easy job. So, taking a step back and actually relaxing your mind slightly and just letting your body do stuff for a bit means that when you come back to it, actually, you're going to be more productive. So, what you would have done that evening in six hours, you end up doing in four hours. So, yes, you might have taken one hour out to go to the gym, but you might have gained two hours back later. So again, it’s that kind of…
[0:30:20.2] Rob Hanna: We’ve talked a lot about obviously going to the gym and being active and all of that great stuff. But even if for some people they can't get to that step at the moment. You know, nutrition is also a big part of this battle, right? And I think a lot of people again in law firms get very used to the same lunch or maybe not eating as well as they should be. Have you got any tips for people you know; in terms of basic nutritional things they should try? I know you’ve got the five a day, but more complex than that or any tips that you'd give people?
[0:30:45.2] Samantha Lewis: Yeah. So, a couple of things on this one, so I can't tell people what they should eat. So, I'm diabetic. I'm type one diabetic. So, I follow a very low carbohydrate diet. That's not me trying to lose weight or follow any sort of diet. It's just easier to maintain my blood sugar levels doing that. So, that's what I've done and I've trained my body so that it is able to be fuelled off those nutrients rather than focused on a high carb diet just because you need energy to go to the gym.
[00:31:23.15] Rob Hanna: Yeah.
[00:31:26.05] Samantha Lewis: So, in that respect, I guess my diet would be slightly different from other peoples. However, one thing that I have done where I've been training. It's been kind of in advance of a competition and I've been particularly busy at work. I am an advocate for meal prep. So, whether that's something you're able to do at home yourself. So, if you've got time on a Sunday and you can actually cook your meals in advance and you can freeze them so that when you are super busy, you don't have time to cook. You can actually just get something out that you've made and you know what's in it. You know what the macros are. You know, whether it's good for you or not and that means you're prepared. Otherwise, there are some really, really good meal prep companies out there that can deliver it to your work. I mean, fairly recently, just before over the summer. Actually, I had a period of about three months where I was really, really busy at work. And I just - It's not that I didn't have time to go shopping and cook and wash up but if I did all those things that worked, I didn't have time to call my parents or see a friend. So, in order to kind of regain some of that time back, I had a meal prep company for about three months and they would deliver to the post room here in like big cool bag and it would be - not breakfast but I had lunch and dinner. So, that meant that I wasn't eating on a whim. I wasn't ordering in every time that I had to work late. I just already have food there. It also meant that I got to see the post room guys everyday who are great. And sometimes you can be in a bit of a bubble when you're working that hard, where you only ever really see yourself and the people on your floor. And actually, the firm is a big place and it's really nice to touch base with, you know, all of those people. So, yeah, meal prep is a good one. I think there's an element of balance that we spoke about. We've got a lovely array of clubs and penguins and mince pies on the table here, and I'm going to encourage all of us to have some- at least something before you go. And there's nothing wrong with the occasional treat. You just got to know when to have it. And whether you know what your relationship is with that kind of thing.
[00:33:39.22] Rob Hanna: Yeah.
[00:33:41.08] Samantha Lewis: I mean, prime example like the advent calendars, I said I wouldn't talk about Christmas, and I have advent calenders. You know, you get a little your little chocolate every day. Like great, have it, why not. Like we'll work hard, if you train hard. If you eat well most of the time then why not. And the other thing is drink loads of water.
[00:34:01.03] Rob Hanna: So, that's interesting. So, I've always been a really big advocate of drinking loads of water, and I drink tonnes anyways. Someone tried to teach me the other day, "No, it's really bad for you to drink lots of water." I was like, "How is that possible?"
[00:34:09.14] Samantha Lewis: Yeah. Did they have any back up to that?
[00:34:11.20] Rob Hanna: No, yeah, I was in the pub so I didn't really take that verbatim, had no context to it. So, okay, moving away slightly differently then, treadmill desk: good or impractical, waste of time?
[00:34:26.01] Samantha Lewis: If I'm honest though, I have to say undecided because I've never seen one.
[00:34:28.23] Rob Hanna: No.
[00:34:28.29] Samantha Lewis: I think there's one on the sixth floor.
[00:34:31.01] Rob Hanna: Okay.
[00:34:32.10] Samantha Lewis: But I don't know, we had I guess similarly, we had a sort of an air bike that was in this container that apparently meant that you didn't sweat in it. It just sat there unused to be honest. I think one of the reasons for going out and doing a class or whatever that might be is to get out of the office. We're here all the time, and actually, it's like when people say, "Go out for lunch, don't eat your desk." There's a reason that you go and you come back and you come up with new ideas or you've had a bit of a breather and you've got un stuck in a little complex problem that you had because you have had that headspace. So, do I think you should be on a treadmill whilst doing work? I mean, burn those calories I suppose but ordinarily I personally with the work that we do. I mean, I would need to have a real focus.
[00:35:27.16] Rob Hanna: If there was one initiative you could include, which, you know, may be a little bit contentious. Is there anything you think from working at a law firm I’d love it if that was in place, or you'd like to introduce?
[00:35:37.18] Samantha Lewis: Oh, that's a really good question. Weirdly, I think that we're starting to kind of get there on a few things. So, part of the thing that we're really good at here is we've moved agile in the last year or so. So, you know, we don't have set desks anymore, which means that people feel like they can manage their time better and that their time is their own. And yes, you have to log seven hours of your time a day. But no one is to say that, "It has to be between X hour and X hour." There's 24 hours in the day and you could record that time as and when you want to. So, it means that we can do the things like I said earlier about, you know, come in half an hour later. If you're going to be here until midnight, then do you have to be here eight am? No, probably not. And then at lunch time, if you want to actually run down to the Barriers and [???] [00:36:32.05] or whatever it is, then you can just run and do that and then come back and actually, it's starting to become accepted that people are doing that and actually, how can you frown upon someone going to fitness class over their lunch break and then, you know, sitting and having whatever they eat afterwards rather than going out and sitting for lunch or something.
[00:37:00.00] Rob Hanna: Well prepared meals are what they're eating afterwards, right?
[00:37:01.03] Samantha Lewis: Absolutely, absolutely, nothing just bought on the way back.
[00:37:04.04] Rob Hanna: Yeah.
[00:37:04.24] Samantha Lewis: Or a shake. Yeah, so I think it is the perception of it. And, interestingly, I think the more everyone talks about it and is open with the fact that actually, yeah, they are running out in the middle of the afternoon, going to fitness class, but then they're coming back and working really late. Then it does become more of the norm. And the challenge is that not everyone does fitness and that is fine. People's priorities can be something else and you don't have to enforce health and fitness on anyone. Often, people will pick up little bits here and there and if people are improving one thing in their day that they weren't doing before because of this openness around health and fitness now and the increased interest in it, then then great. But equally if they want to go for a beer at the pub after work rather than going and doing a team spin, that's fine too. And you know, we still do that. It's all about that I hate this whole balance thing. But it is all about balance. We go to a class together and then it's like at WIT on a Friday evening. Everyone goes straight after work to the pub; what we do is we go and do a class called WIT Gone Bad. It's absolutely hectic. Everyone just kind of really goes for it, gets really sweaty, high vibes everywhere. Like it's great, it's really good out there and then we will finish it. And then we got to the pub and that's really fun. And, you know, having that social network at your gym actually kind of makes you be able to kill two birds with one stone in some instances where you don't necessarily have time to see your friends but actually, if you're training with them in the morning, then in between sets you can catch up on how the family is or you know all of those other bits of your life that you kind of are able to consolidate which is just great.
[00:38:53.28] Rob Hanna: Yeah, definitely and before we wrap up, there is a couple of things I wanted to ask as well because you touched on sort of competitions. You’re very activively involved in the Pinsent sports teams. I know you came sort of very close on the law society sevens recently as well. Just wanna sort of tell us about some of the competitions and things you get involved in and yeah, some of your highlights?
[00:39:12.28] Samantha Lewis: Yes. So, the netball team. So, we have a great netball team here which is really fun actually. So, we've got -
[00:39:21.10] Rob Hanna: What's your position?
[00:39:22.05] Samantha Lewis: I play centre.
[00:39:23.11] Rob Hanna: Okay.
[00:39:24.02] Samantha Lewis: Only because no one else wants to run around as much as centre. So, even if I didn't - if that wasn't my position, my position at school was actually goal attack and then it's amazing after a few years out of it that you just can't hit, you can't throw it in the goal any more. I leave it to other people now and just run around and look busy. Yeah, we've got we've got a great rugby team. We've got mixed rugby. There’re loads of random things. I think we've got a softball team. We do have a softball team. And it's a really interesting way actually to meet people in other departments. To kind of network is probably the wrong word, but connect with people of different levels. Plus, I don't know, it's one of those other things, where the firm like the fact that we've got those sports teams and they like to get behind us. And yeah, so, sevens is actually, it used to only be a rugby tournament and then thankfully, they introduced netball as well a couple years ago. So our rugby team and our netball team go along every year and it’s a really fun day and we tend to do really well which is great. So, competition wise, so I'm actually relatively new to competition. So, I started off with my first comp at Turf games which started off well my involvement started off a couple of years ago in the team competitions. So, you have summer one and the winter one. So, did summer, did the winter. Ended up, I was in a mix team, me, my boyfriend, and my friend Alice, her boyfriend and our other friend, Jamie. He's an absolute monster he’s huge. So, you just tell him what to do and he just picks something up and takes it over there. It's very useful. So, it's really - for me team competitions are so much fun. It's all about kind of collaboration. There's a lot of tactics involved. And actually, some people often say, "Oh, you know, I don't really want to do a team competition" for fear of letting someone else down. But actually, if you're in the right team, you'll never feel that because no one will ever make you feel that way. And actually, the good thing about it is you're able to pick someone else up where they would fall down. So, for example, I'm not a great runner. So, there might be something that’s a part running event and part something else. So, someone who's a cracking runner will go out there and take most of the running metres. And then where I might be better at - I don’t know lifting something slightly heavier. Whatever it might be, then I kind of take that on for them. So, that kind of give and take is one of reasons that I really like team comps. So then, what else have we done? So, I did a fitness in the city, which was - It's an individual comp off turf games, which is kind of since their collaboration with Under Armour. So, I filmed with Under Armour.
[00:42:16.09] Ron Hanna: Yeah tell us about that.
[00:42:17.27] Samantha Lewis: So, it's an interesting one. So Under Armour basically wanted to do kind of intro videos with a couple of the athletes who are going to be competing at the individual's to basically try and - similarly to what you guys are doing, actually, kind of educate people on how you’re able to do things when there's blockades in the way. So, for example, with the guy who did it, this guy called Tom Bliss, he he's an ex sportsman, I think he was injured, and they kind of took the angle with him of that kind of like ex sportsman turned PT but also fitness competitor. And then the angle for me was about this kind of full time professional and the resilience that it takes to also compete alongside these athletes. So, it was super interesting. So, they just approached me, and they came to my house at six a.m. and followed came on the tube with me to WIT and filmed at WIT.
[00:43:22.22] Rob Hanna: Did you feel like a celebrity?
[00:43:23.25] Samantha Lewis: It was honestly bonkers, like, you know, I'm not used to being filmed in that way. And, you know, I think they wanted it to be real people who aren't necessarily used to speaking to the camera or being in front of a camera. And I think, I hope at least they found that it was fairly authentic. And, you know, all you could do is say what you think. Yeah, I know, you can probably tell I haven't pre planned anything we've spoken about. So, yes, it was really, really interesting and like the Under Armour guys are great. Like really, really interesting to work with and then all of the new stuff is amazing. Yeah. Yes, it
[00:44:04.12] Rob Hanna: I bet. Is any of that going to be in the freebie goody bags, later on any Under Armour stuff?
[00:44:08.19] Samantha Lewis: No, actually, I'll tell you why.
[00:44:10.12] Rob Hanna: Boo.
[00:44:10.15] Samantha Lewis: Because I actually said to them, "I can't think of anything that you could put in the 80 goody bags because in less hours and to put 80 pairs of trainers, and I don't think that's very reasonable." But they are coming this evening, which is really great. So, yeah, it was really, really fun. And it's nice to do these partnerships where you know that that's not my career. I have no intention to work in the fitness industry as you know, a coach or an influencer or anything like that. All I want particularly through wellbeing lawyer stuff is I want to be able to give people access to what I do on certain different levels. So one is exactly what we spoke about, about being a busy lawyer and how to fit in and manage your time to do those things that are a priority to you and the other thing that is really important to me is I've had a lot of diabetics contact me to ask various things like even from, you know, "How do you live with it? How you manage it at work? How do you manage it in a competition?" I literally this morning had someone asking me that and actually the answer is it's really, really hard. But it's trial and error. It's understanding your body. It's having a good medical team behind you. Good friends and supporters around you. And you know, I've fairly recently got the three-star libra, which is monitoring device for your blood sugar levels then you have that on your arm and it's suddenly very exposed. And I was a bit worried about it because it's big piece of plastic that's just sticking on your arm. and I've had people say, "Well, you know, is that like a nicotine patch." "No, it's not nicotine patch. It manages my blood sugar levels. I'm diabetic." But actually, what's brilliant about it is I've had two young girls at the firm come up to me and say, "Look, you know what? I'm diabetic. I'm really struggling with dealing with it and my family doesn't understand or my friends doesn't understand. And, I'm worried about telling people. I don't want people to think that I'm different or like weaker or whatever it might be." And to be able to just sit down, have a chat with those people and give them my experience or try and connect them with other diabetics at the firm that they didn't know were there, it made them feel slightly less alone in it.
[00:46:31.24] Rob Hanna: Yeah.
[00:46:32.08] Samantha Lewis: Then that's great. And another really, really nice story and I imagine this is probably the last one. But for example, we're talking about the turf games competition and so our team was in the elite final and we were just setting up to go, and suddenly this girl started running over to me and I was like... It looks like she's coming to me about to tell me who she is. And she just came over to me and she kind of looked a bit teary and she was like, "I just wanted to say like, I'm type one too and what you're doing is very inspiring. You’re in the final, this is amazing, like doing it for the type ones." And it was honestly, it really, really touched me. And it was such a nice moment because there was this unity of kind of fitness, but also this condition that we live with on a day-to-day basis and how those things are able to coexist even though a lot of people think that they can't.
[00:47:25.01] Rob Hanna: Yeah.
[00:47:25.11] Samantha Lewis: So, yes, so I think the reason that I have this kind of personal brand is twofold. One is to promote myself in the sector of what I do. And you know the service that I can provide as a lawyer and then, secondly, if I can contribute to wellbeing generally to anyone who might be seeking help then great.
[00:47:45.07] Rob Hanna: Great stuff and I think you summarised it perfectly there. For people who do want to follow you as well on Instagram, give a shout out to how they can follow you. What’s your at?
[00:47:54.17] Samantha Lewis: The Wellbeing Lawyer.
[00:47:55.12] Rob Hanna: Wellbeing Lawyer. There we go, so Sam, it's been an absolute pleasure having you on. I think it's been pretty inspirational just being sat here. And I need to get my routine of gym and fitness back on track. So, thanks so much for all your insights. I just do want to put on the record though, I do very good arabesque. So -
[00:48:12.01] Samantha Lewis: Oh, well, there you go.
[00:48:12.09] Rob Hanna: - we can have a competition sometime. My friends will say I’m a dad dancer, but don’t go in for that. But yeah, no, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thanks so much. And yeah, hopefully we'll have you on the show at some point in future so you can tell us more about what you doing.
[00:48:22.26] Samantha Lewis: Thank you for having me.
[Audio Ends] [00:48:25.07]