This week on the Legally Speaking Podcast, powered by KC Partners, our host Rob Hanna is joined by the inspirational Nikki Alderson! Nikki is a Specialist International Corporate & Executive Coach, who supports law firms, chambers & other legal organisations retain female talent & empowers female lawyers to achieve their career ambitions.
She doesn’t stop there, she is also a Former Criminal Barrister, Active Speaker and most recently an Amazon Best-Selling Author for her amazing book, Raising The Bar! We will be delving deep into how Nikki’s journey began, what inspired her to write her first book and why you should consider coaching, as it can help you to achieve your career goals.
In this episode, we discuss:
This week on the Legally Speaking Podcast, powered by KC Partners, our host Rob Hanna is joined by the inspirational Nikki Alderson! Nikki is a Specialist International Corporate & Executive Coach, who supports law firms, chambers & other legal organisations retain female talent & empowers female lawyers to achieve their career ambitions.
She doesn’t stop there, she is also a Former Criminal Barrister, Active Speaker and most recently an Amazon Best-Selling Author for her amazing book, Raising The Bar! We will be delving deep into how Nikki’s journey began, what inspired her to write her first book and why you should consider coaching, as it can help you to achieve your career goals.
In this episode, we discuss:
Rob Hanna: 0:01
Welcome to the Legally Speaking Podcast powered by Kissoon Carr. I'm your host, Rob Hanna. This week, I'm delighted to be joined by the wonderful Nikki Alderson. Nikki is a specialist international corporate, an executive coach who supports law firms, Chambers and other legal organisation. Retain female talent on empowers female lawyers to achieve their career ambitions. She doesn't stop there. She's also a former criminal barrister, active speaker and, most recently, Amazon, bestselling author for Amazing book The Raising the Bar. So welcome, Nikki.
Rob Hanna: 0:35
Thank you to be here.
Rob Hanna: 0:36
I mean, it's a real pleasure to have yet another highly esteemed guest on the podcast, so thank you for travelling down from the North to to be with us. But before we dive into all of that, we do have our customary question on the podcast, which has suit related, as you may know by now. So on the scale of 1 to 10, 10 being very real, how real do you rate the hit TV series Suits?
Nikki Alderson: 1:01
I've got a really disappointing here because I have never seen it on. I think the reason why is because from an early age, when I was doing training and so on. I was watching this life. I'm really showing my age now at bar school in London. I was not in this life. And then more recently, what? I watched Silk with Maxine Peake, who I think was a great female role model in that. But then after that, it was really Brussels holiday. So I've never seen suits on. Sorry. So
Rob Hanna: 1:28
it'll be a zero based on the facts. Can often opinion without seeing it.
Nikki Alderson: 1:32
I'm sorry. No,
Rob Hanna: 1:33
Fair enough. So I mentioned at the top There you you come down from a city which is very dear to me. I studied there. I've made lifelong friends there in Leeds, but I have to confess I haven't been back for a year or two. What am I missing out on up there?
Nikki Alderson: 1:47
Oh, you know, leads is great. I mean, what I love about leases because it's so near to the country can actually get out and go for walks and so on. Andi, I'm actually from Sheffield originally, but it seemed like a natural. Yeah, return home to Yorkshire, so Yeah, you should come up sometime. I
Rob Hanna: 2:02
will. I will. And so we have to kind of digest that whole introduction because you keep very busy. But let's try and go back to the sort of beginning. Did you
Nikki Alderson: 2:11
always want to be embarrassed? No. I wanted to be a journalist when I was 14 or so at school on DH. I had a work placement at the Sheffield Star where I ended up going to court with the court reporter. And what was interesting about it was at that age on, they directed. I couldn't really wasn't suitable that I go in the crown court because of a lot off the serious cases that they were dealing with. So I went to the much straight score on was dealing ways bus vandalism on DH. It was because the journalists I'm very inspired by this topic, which didn't really inspire me, that I thought, you know what I could do better than the journalist and I could be a lawyer. So that's what started it for me.
Rob Hanna: 2:56
Okay. And what was your specialist area is a barrister.
Nikki Alderson: 2:59
I did criminal law I practised in the law from well, the weird gay really 1996 until I finished in 2017. Okay.
Rob Hanna: 3:09
Andi, I know what did you particularly enjoy the most about that position and and your time
Nikki Alderson: 3:13
is up. It's embarrassing, I think, making a difference wass really important to me and particularly when I got involved with the volunteer work in Jamaica just knowing that you really were affecting somebody to life on. It was such an important job to do on that for me. I really felt very passionate about the work that I did. But obviously with that comes great responsibility as well. So it wasn't without its stresses. It's got to be,
Rob Hanna: 3:40
yeah, and you touched on it there the your your pro bono work in Jamaica supporting the death Row attorney. Just tell us a little bit more about that, because that's really like you say it Sze gripping to here, and I want to know. I'm sure our listeners to be fascinated, to know
Nikki Alderson: 3:52
more well, it was really life affirming work. I went when I was about eight years. Call on DH. I got involved in a bar human rights project where you went out for about two months at a time on we were supporting the attorneys there who were represented people who face the death penalty if they were convicted. And whilst I was there, I was the first barrister who actually got involved in a full contested case from start to last. And well, unfortunately, it was one of those as well. We're even just reading the case. You could see that there was not enough evidence to base a conviction. On June the two weeks I was in the corps, I observed inadmissible evidence going before the call. Witness intimidation, jewellery, novel ing, judicial bias, you name it. Whatever could have gone wrong to those two men on trial went wrong for them on at the end of it. Two weeks later, the jury returned two guilty verdicts on both of them were sentenced to death. I'm just being involved in that. And one of them in particular, you know, being involved in his case and knowing having got to know his mother, it was just It was heroin, absolute hurry, but that he didn't end there. I then continued to help whilst I was in Jamaica, and also whilst I was back in the UK. But I also got wind that both of them have been very seriously assaulted whilst on death row on. The man that I've been representing was stabbed 23 times by other inmates, possibly with guards, you know, turning a blind eye on DH. I just thought, Wow, I really have to get this guy out. I met him after the event. He just Bean returned back to the prison from hospital, where he'd been on life support days, if not weeks. And I will never, ever forget our image of the man. Cool to me with bandages and gauze all over him and and absolute fear just being returned to the place where he nearly lost his life. And with no guarantees that all of his safety But he said to May the next time I was doing when it was slightly better. And you want to write a book about this? I, you know, said no promises, but it's that the part
Rob Hanna: 6:12
of the city planted
Nikki Alderson: 6:13
a seed.
Rob Hanna: 6:14
So what will definitely Come on, Teo. That of course, but washed. You were embarrassed. What challenges did you face and how did you overcome them? I guess that'll lead onto our further discussion as well. But you know what was the challenge you found? You found you
Nikki Alderson: 6:29
face. The one major challenge for me was that I was involved mostly with child sex cases. Now that wass a choice because I became a grateful prosecutor. But the reality is that those cases are very harrowing. To deal with on the subject matter doesn't exactly thrill you. I didn't particularly enjoy what I was doing, even though obviously the outcome was important. The rest of it, the second challenge I think I've faced was then when I came on to be a mother on DH, I'd had two Children and returned to the bar both times full time because I had to do that. You don't have any part time options in the criminal bar and no, frankly, do I think there should be, because I don't see how Crown courts would operate on a part time basis. However, it was at that point that I realised that I couldn't do my job at the level. I was doing it out on DH service, the family as well in the way that I wanted to, particularly as at that point by baby to my husband, was still working away in London and it was hard to juggle everything on DH. That's a common problem with a lot of my clients. Is low.
Rob Hanna: 7:40
Yeah, on DH. That's really thanks for sharing that. I think that's very important, Andi, I guess if you were to go back and look at your younger self regarding, Junior's looking at going into the law, What advice would you give to them? To understand your part wasn't all conventional
Nikki Alderson: 7:54
role. I had some advice. I was doing too many people in years ago. Maybe when I was about 16 or 17 on the guy who was showing me the ropes at the Barristers Chambers in Sheffield has now become a judge on DH is very successful, and I remember at the time he was in owning even then legal aid cuts and very certain things. And you know, the problems have only got worse in many ways to criminal barristers. And he was effectively trying to put me off and say, You know, there are better things to do, but I ignored that advice on. What I would say is that if you have a passion to do something, then go ahead on and do it on DH, even though I have now taken a different path. There is no regret. There is no sense that I have in any way wasted, you know, a career. I feel like I've had a great innings at the bar, but actually for May it was a different time and different passions and different things were coming up to me That wants to make made me want to move on. Yeah,
Rob Hanna: 8:54
and life just move on. You evolved, you know, inherit new passions. And that was another question was going to ask you because I think you're quoted to say, this sort of career crossroads. And you know what really inspired you to branch out to become an author and many other things that you do today, but particularly being author
Nikki Alderson: 9:11
Well, I think the career crossroads moment came thirsty when I returned back from Jamaica because that off, then am I going to carry on with this for the rest of my life? Actually, because I had coaching. Then it really got me back on track with the career, and I did it very successfully for another 10 years at least. But the power of coaching never left me. So when over those 10 years I had my doubts about whether or not this is what I wanted to do forever. I always thought back to coaching and thought there may be something in that. And so it wass I continued with my job full time at the bar. But I also did a quite intensive coaching qualification which went on for two years. I had to have guinea pig clients. Archers prove a certain number of our coaching hours. I did a thesis various other things on guy always had. It is a potential plan B. But as I was just finishing that cause I met my husband and so we went on to have a family, and it wasn't really the right time, but by baby three, it was a come on now or never moment. And I didn't want to let go. Was the passion that I had the coaching and thought. You know what? I'm gonna give this a go. No, we're not.
Rob Hanna: 10:24
It'll not a tool time. Of course we have to tell you, as I said, at the top of the podcast, you know you are the author of an Amazon bestselling book raising the bar. So come on, tell us more about
Nikki Alderson: 10:33
that. Well, what's interesting about this is that as a coach, I wass becoming a specialist in certain subjects, and just then I quite enjoyed writing about it, thinking about it now. Maybe it was to do with that passion years ago that I had to be a journalist, but I've written so many Blog's on directed my clients, too. So money off those blog's that I've just had a feeling that there's more in May to give. And then I was recommending certain off the coach's box to clients on DH. I thought, This is ridiculous. I've got my own material here. I can do it myself on because I had, I think at that time thought he blog's well, and I'd also being involved in a collaborative. But where I'd already written one chapter for somebody else. I thought, You know what I can I can do this myself. I'm a great believer, is a coach in having a goal and something else to plan to get there. And I think in 2000 and eight, Tiu I'd written on my 2019 gold ore that was going to write a book. But what happened was, I think in August I reviewed my goal board and I thought, Oh, where am I? With that whole idea about writing a book on? I was not very far forward. So I had a word of myself, and I thought, right, Okay, but I get this book written. So I decided on the 14th divorce was gonna write a book by the 23rd of October. It wass eh? Amazon number one Best selling book. So
Rob Hanna: 12:03
how does it feel to be an Amazon bestselling author? Sounds really cool, right? Well, yeah. I mean, I'm
Nikki Alderson: 12:08
pleased. That's another thing about, you know, the stuff that I do now. The things that used to moan about when I was in Chambers about, you know, the clock's having to manage a diary and certain issues between us that used to drive me mad. But now, because I have to do everything myself, diary, management and marketing and all of that sort stuff, it was so important, I think is well, to raise my profile to raise my credibility, especially now as well that I'm going on to doing a lot more on DH, speaking at events and so on in terms of my expertise tohave a book as well. T sort back that up. Yeah, I think is really important. And it's the book, frankly, that I wish I'd have myself. Yeah, because it sze all that stuff that I've learned through. I put a little bit about my own experiences at the bar, the challenges that I've had. But it's not all about the bust. If it's about the solutions on for me, a massive part of that wass coaching. And so there were coaching hints, tips, strategies in there as well, so but it's great as well. She's got generic appeal. Even though I wrote it for female lawyers. I'm hearing from other people in other industries that they're finding it equally helpful. You're
Rob Hanna: 13:17
good, I guess. You know what people here are Amazon, bestselling author. You know, people have similar inspirations, and that's what we're trying to get from this. Podcasters inspire so many others to take their passions. What steps do you actually have to take together? How does it work? Well,
Nikki Alderson: 13:30
yeah, I mean, seriously, you've got you've got to write something, you know, it seems obvious on I think that was the hardest part. I remember when I was getting involved in this original collaborative book. That was what took the big chunk of time. And I had to go into monk mode to really dig deep and think about what this Storey wass and how I could describe experiences in it in a way that readers would relate to. You will find interesting, but once you got into the habit of writing something, then it becomes a lot easier to think of things on to think about as well. What your audience would find valuable are useful. T read. In fact, mine is a book which wass self published with help. So I didn't get into all the nuts and bolts of formatting and editing and all that sort of stuff. I had somebody else help me with that. But yeah, I haven't gone through a publisher, although you know that's another option to maybe later down the line or for my second book
Rob Hanna: 14:31
on that comes nicely into what I was going to say. That such a thirst for continued content these there's in whichever shape or formal medium it will be. So what's in the pipeline for the future can you give us any snippets?
Nikki Alderson: 14:40
Well, yeah, I think there's to two things. I have really clear visions around fiercely since we're talking about the book. There was a chapter in this book that I took out at the last minute because it felt a little bit too much about starting your own business and your USP and networking, all that sort of stuff. So I pulled that chapter, so I already have chapter wall of weather. Look, it may be that I going to do in the future, especially given I I feel I'm branching out. Not just now, looking at the legal profession, but also similar challenges about the retention of women in financial services, in medicine, in engineering and tech, and so on and so forth. But secondly, I really wanted this year in particular to develop my speaker business. So looking at ways I can be in front of a stage. Jinky next beat speaking on DH also doing continue my workshop work as well. Yeah,
Rob Hanna: 15:44
we're sort of touching on it throughout the conversation, but through licky orders in coaching, you do so much great work. But I guess going back a step, you know, What about coaching really helped you find your own value. What would you say to others listening in about
Nikki Alderson: 15:56
that? I had that piece of coating which kept me in the job, and I will never forget the power of coaching. And so if I can give women, men, whoever a taste of that bond, the power off, how it can be not just in terms of they're being a challenge that you need to get over, but in terms ofthe going, What does it say from good to great, you know? And Murray got a coach in when he was a really great tennis player. But he wanted Teo become a world champion and get all the Grand Slam titles and so on. And the shift is Kota thinking his mom to even Lendl. And it was then that he was able to bring all the metal. Same on. I think that's really what I want to convey to people that the coating is a really powerful and useful tool on DH for professional UN person development. Yeah,
Rob Hanna: 16:45
well said Well said, and we get in, we mention it briefly, but you've spoken a whole host of sort of national conferences, events such as the Women in Law, UK Criminal Law, Friends, Society conferences, variety of legal organisations, women lawyers and Mother's Midland Circuit Women's Forum leads Law Society. The list could go on and on and on. But what do you most enjoy about being a motivational speaker? What do you look back on after doing that and get most pleasure?
Nikki Alderson: 17:14
I think it's knowing that this journey hasn't in any way gone to waste that, you know, there are people that I can reach out to an influence, even if it is one person in that room to know that you've made a difference to them and maybe their mindset. You know, I think to me, that's the importance that you're making. Um, I remember seeing a motivation speaker absolutely years ago on DH. It really sat with me, and I think if I if I could just do that for one person, I would Yeah, I'd be happy.
Rob Hanna: 17:41
Yeah, on we talk about some of the topics is as well that you sort of span across. But impostor syndrome seems to be a huge topic of the moment, especially on linked in how Khun coaching Sort of help
Nikki Alderson: 17:53
people with that. It's interesting about imposture syndrome because I'm coming across it more and more on DH. The first thing I should say about it is what I have come across are found surprising is that there is some negative feminist commentary around in process in Dream, where some people have criticised the label is an old concept on actually can become like a self fulfilling prophecy. I don't agree with that approach because for me, what I am seeing in clients, and also I've heard two judges to different events recently, talking about their own experiences off up Skilling having just become a judge, appointed as a judge that they've had their own challenges around. Are they equipped to do the job? Do they have enough skills stepping into that leadership role on actually, when they've owned this thing, this label being able to deal with it on DH? May I do a lot of this in my workshops around here? How we reduce the volume of those negative voices and actually increased the volume on our skills, our strength on DH, how we can move forward confidently and also use the network of people around us if we can't do it for ourselves. There are lots of people who can blow you up just for that point where you're stepping into your your space. Yeah,
Rob Hanna: 19:14
on DH is well said, because you do d touched on some really, really important topics as well. Mindset, resilient, competent, sort of person performance well being. So people really should, you know, these are important to them. They should definitely thinking about them and get in touch, right?
Nikki Alderson: 19:29
Yeah, well, you know, I have a rial to CERN in this area because I think that law is so often around. You know, image is everything in law, and therefore there is a big challenge. I think around talking about this sort of stuff, especially with well being. You know, there was time to talk, Dave. You, The Week on initiative Teo, help talk about mental health and good mental health in the workplace. I talked to the Yorkshire Post about it into the workshop for them. No, I think in law we could all go with having Morrison's conversations both about person development and also about mental health on DH. How well being is so integral without feeling like there is some kind of comeback or or losing faith. There was a stat with really interesting stuff to our three barristers Felt that talking about stress wass a sign off on weakness on. I just think that is such a pity that we have to deal without. People ought to be honest about how they're feeling being ableto talk openly about it absolutely.
Rob Hanna: 20:37
And talking openly and exposure. No success keeps knocking at your door at the moment. And, you know, I'm pretty sure I saw you on the recent TV appearance, and sky is no less So tell us all about that. What we discussing And how did that come about?
Nikki Alderson: 20:51
Well, I was on the school run on You do on the phone, went on Unknown number and I answered it and it was sky news saying, Hi, we'd like to come and interview you and respect off the reducing numbers of women in leadership positions in law. It was a forces site, Eva pour on the gender pay gap and they wanted my take on it. I mean, obviously I was absolutely taken aback and thrilled at the same time. And next thing they later camera crew arrived at my house on the kids. All got involved. Most faithful. Yeah. I mean, this for me is knowing me. It's about the power of the message that hopefully I'm getting out there, but also the power off linked in Twitter social media. To increase your profile increase, you'll reach intended your messages one because as well, you know, I was a finalist in the International Coach Award last year. I'm coaching women all around the world. America, Sweden, France, Amsterdam. You know, that wouldn't have been possible years ago. And I guess that's why this opportunity is Sky news came about so and
Rob Hanna: 22:02
that was a great point because I was going to say, How have you found social Media to be so helpful for you? And you know all of your initiatives? Because I guess even this conversation today is that kind of linked in discussion. You and I have been sort of, you know, chatting away over the various years, but yeah, how have you found it? Sort of tell us a bit more, because that's really helpful. You move your mastering.
Nikki Alderson: 22:20
Yeah, but that was a conscious decision on DH. It's interesting in business When you start out, you have Teo try things out on DH. I think one of your linked in place even recently was talking about how you might try things and fail. Actually, there is no such thing as failure. It's just a learning point on that point. I started out in business, and first off may be six months. I was a generic coach on Do you know that didn't go so well? So then it was like, Right, I'm a coach for lawyers that work much better than I needed a bit more female lawyers on then, having done a lot of face to face networking, which last I was building, my business is really helpful about two years later, with when the penny dropped with me that I need to be absolutely focused on targeted in what I do, the message I deliver on DH to whom I deliver it. And it's then that I realised the power of social media. I think it was January of last year. I decided I was gonna absolutely do a campaign, if you like, of Social Media Marketing, which wass blogging. Establishing myself as an expert on that was the culmination, culminating in the writing of a book on DH. It couldn't have gone better in turns off opportunities coming my way, helping other people, and I mean conversations that I cannot say how much I love ringtone. It's just but what I love about looting as well as it seems to make a professional positive and really, you know, people are there not just to take, but also to give bond these people help each other was for me. There's something about I used. Twitter is something I'm
Rob Hanna: 24:04
a massive advocate of linked in. I think I'm other social media. I touch John, but I just think linked in if you're really thinking about it, you want to get on, I think to go all in on Don't be shy about it because I think linked in It's just gonna be somewhere in 10 years time that people didn't think it would be possible that general my view on it on, So I'm quite bullish, for they will be your dormant on linked in at the moment. I think you're missing a trick
Nikki Alderson: 24:24
I absolutely agree with you on.
Rob Hanna: 24:26
So, you know, let's talk about law firms, then what Do you think they could be doing better to retain female talent? You know, there's still a long way to go, some good work being done. But what are some of the common themes and what do you think can be done or more can be done?
Nikki Alderson: 24:39
There should be better consideration around flexible working that can definitely be used more advantageously. I think there's some things you were just totally resistant to that idea because they're gonna lose fantastic talent in career break returns, for example, who cannot be necessarily visible in the office at all times. So that is one issue, and secondly, I think that there should be a some kind of move away from the time based business model in We should be looking more output rather than time because, you know, we are hearing now that a lot of one in particular can work from home. But they are missing out on that visibility within the office or no going to networking events and so on and so forth. But actually they still have a huge amount to give on Biff you looked at. What they're producing is it has a outcome better that than taking off in six minutes, and that makes
Rob Hanna: 25:37
more sense to me because there's never been a largest amount of fixed the work out there at the moment. So if you're measuring on output that ZA to connect, there is a disconnect. But it's still like you say. I still think there's a long way to go, but it's a very, very valid point. Tell us more about your mentoring work because the coaching academy what that involves. Just tell us a lot because people are always looking for new mentors and, like you say, you are always looking for linked in. But tell us more about some of your mentoring
Nikki Alderson: 26:02
work. Yeah, I think we have to distinguish between coaching and mentoring because coaching is why, generally, do I have also their mentor for the coaching academy and also so linked in and lean in Leeds, who she's another soul female empowerment group in Leeds based on shell. Some birds or leaning mentoring is more around advising someone and letting them follow a path similar to yours. Coaching is less. It isn't advisory. It's more about where do you want us to go? Where do you see yourself in how are you going to get there? But yeah, I do both. And sometimes now, because of my background, I'm finding that the coaching I do is generally coaching. But then, if the women I'm coaching one Mohr advisory stuff, that's when I say turn right. If you want more about that, I can come out of the coach role and I could get into mentor mode. Yeah, and that's kind of what I do
Rob Hanna: 26:58
on what are the future ambitions for Nikki Old. It's an insult consulting, coaching, Get my words out So it's done so much already. But do you sort of, you know, you say very goal orientated. You've got your own plan. You know? What is the future look
Nikki Alderson: 27:12
like? Yeah, I think, this year, as I say that maybe maybe three things, firstly, more on speaking engagements. Secondly, expanding the business outside off purely law because I do think I mean, I was in it and had a discussion this morning just with an insurance company. I think there's a lot of work to be joining financial services as well. So that's another thing I like to d'oh did to brunch out from Law and Thirdly, not this year, but at some point you can't ask me to write a book. I will do. I think
Rob Hanna: 27:45
I'm asking you to write another book. So please, I
Nikki Alderson: 27:49
need some more material.
Rob Hanna: 27:50
Three ideas? Definitely. And listen, we've talked about so much there that you're doing and you don't sit still. I really admire that. But you also do allow time for family times. And what do you do for downtime? What, you got planned holidays wise this year. Sort of talk us through your downtime moments
Nikki Alderson: 28:07
or, well, downtime moments when they are in the week. Ordinarily, I'm going tio circuit classes regularly, and that is really, really important to me on I still fit that in around everything else. Family time is Saturday's usually just the running around, facilitating the family and know me or me and my husband Time. Yeah, and then some days it might be more off a country walk, going back to the lead point earlier on DH holidays. It makes me look this year we're having a week in Wales way, but you know, we've got big ambitions for next year's there will stay with you
Rob Hanna: 28:47
all exciting times ahead no doubt on Dickie has been an absolute pleasure having you on for everyone who no doubt has pretty picked up loads of great tip its insights or wants to get in touch there. How would you suggest people get in touch of you? What's the best formal way you want to give you also linked in a shout out or any of your social media people to get in
Nikki Alderson: 29:05
touch? Yeah, I think the best way to ensure the eye responded would be to write an email Teo Nicky at Nikki Alderson coaching dot com. But also Teo link him with May maybe with a personal message about where you've heard of May or you know why we should connect. So I get a lot of requests, and I like to keep my network focused. So yeah, that's maybe the way she comes up with,
Rob Hanna: 29:32
right? Well, thanks a 1,000,000 for popping on. Nikki has been an absolute pleasure. I'm sure we're going to see you again on the legally speaking podcasts at some stage. So I'm sure our listeners also found that really truly inspiring and thought provoking. So safe travel back north and over now. Thank you.