Andy Jackson is a poet and creative writing teacher who was awarded RMIT’s Future of Health Fellowship. Andy’s book “Human Looking” – a poetry collection that gives voice to a range of experiences of people with disability – won the 2022 Prime Minister’s Literary Award for Poetry. In our interview we explore ideas of health, the challenging and problematic pursuit of “normal” in the health care context, the nature of fears that possibly drive the ableist instinct, and the place that creatives have in designing a more inclusive future.