Speaking of Influence

The Upside of Impostor Syndrome with guest Suraj Sodha

June 19, 2020 John Ball Season 1 Episode 30
Speaking of Influence
The Upside of Impostor Syndrome with guest Suraj Sodha
Chapters
Speaking of Influence
The Upside of Impostor Syndrome with guest Suraj Sodha
Jun 19, 2020 Season 1 Episode 30
John Ball

I was lucky enough to have my friend Suraj agree to be a guest and the conversation we had proved to me that it was a very wise decision.
We first met back in our days of being trained in Neurolinguistic Programming, hypnosis and presentation skills for public speaking among other things. Suraj has always been incredibly kind and generous with his time and his knowledge and he shares a lot of great insights and personal experience in this episode.
I first knew Suraj as being a marketer and teaching online marketing and social media marketing. He runs one of the largest and most successful meetup groups in London for Entrepreneurs, called Entrepreneur Jam. He's spoken internationally to corporate and general audiences on a variety of topics, he has his own podcast called The Entrepreneur Jam Podcast and he embarked on a physical transformation a little over a year ago, going from being a slightly chubby guy to becoming insanely ripped and fitness magazine cover star material.
We talk about highs and lows, what he's working on now and how Suraj values impostor syndrome and gets it working for his benefit.
Don't miss this fun and engaging chat with an incredible entrepreneur and truly authentic guy.
Find out more about Suraj on his website https://www.surajsodha.com/
You can connect with him on Linked In (but be sure to send a message with the request)
Suraj's book recommendation is 'The Go-Giver' by Bob Burg and John David Mann. I recommend checking out their website too https://thegogiver.com/
Apologies for some of the audio problems towards the end.



Buzzsprout - Let's get your podcast launched!
Start for FREE

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Show Notes Transcript

I was lucky enough to have my friend Suraj agree to be a guest and the conversation we had proved to me that it was a very wise decision.
We first met back in our days of being trained in Neurolinguistic Programming, hypnosis and presentation skills for public speaking among other things. Suraj has always been incredibly kind and generous with his time and his knowledge and he shares a lot of great insights and personal experience in this episode.
I first knew Suraj as being a marketer and teaching online marketing and social media marketing. He runs one of the largest and most successful meetup groups in London for Entrepreneurs, called Entrepreneur Jam. He's spoken internationally to corporate and general audiences on a variety of topics, he has his own podcast called The Entrepreneur Jam Podcast and he embarked on a physical transformation a little over a year ago, going from being a slightly chubby guy to becoming insanely ripped and fitness magazine cover star material.
We talk about highs and lows, what he's working on now and how Suraj values impostor syndrome and gets it working for his benefit.
Don't miss this fun and engaging chat with an incredible entrepreneur and truly authentic guy.
Find out more about Suraj on his website https://www.surajsodha.com/
You can connect with him on Linked In (but be sure to send a message with the request)
Suraj's book recommendation is 'The Go-Giver' by Bob Burg and John David Mann. I recommend checking out their website too https://thegogiver.com/
Apologies for some of the audio problems towards the end.



Buzzsprout - Let's get your podcast launched!
Start for FREE

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

John Ball 
On today's show, I am very happy to introduce a good friend of mine someone I've known for some time, and has agreed to come on my show, which I'm really pleased about because there's some important stuff that we want to talk about. Now his business is online graphic design and website maintenance. But he is also the leader and host of one of the biggest meetup groups I think probably in London certainly has to do with entrepreneurs and marketing and the lights called entrepreneur jam. And his name is Suraj Sodha. Welcome to the show, Surj.

Suraj Sodha 
Thank you, John. It's so good to finally be on your show and, and be speaking with you about some important things that we're going to be talking about.

John Ball 
Indeed, and one thing that's really cool for this is that some of the stuff that first got me into understanding things like internet marketing and social media marketing, particularly, I learned from you, because that was something that you were teaching for a while, right?

Suraj Sodha 
It was Yeah, that's so lovely to hear. Thank you so much. And, you know, all of those concepts of Internet Marketing, which now go back, gosh, don't how long ago was that was many, many, many years ago whilst maybe the intricate details of it have changed, the overarching concepts are still so valid today. And not I don't mean just in internet marketing or marketing in a general context, but in, in present presentations and in running a business successfully and growing a successful business, and how that fits into your lifestyle as well. So all of those concepts that I used to talk about from stage and mean workshops that you know me from, they still apply to this to this day.

John Ball 
Now you have some pretty extensive experience in public speaking and that's also a very good reason to be speaking to you on this podcast. But what led you there? How did you end up on this path? And then we met in a personal development environment training environment. But how did you end up on this particular trajectory?

Suraj Sodha 
So actually, it goes back to when I was in a corporate job. So, if you sort of picture you know, 20, 21 years old graduated from university, I mean, my first corporate job, and you know, worrying doing the whole suit and tie routine, and my boss, a chap called Peter, who, still to this day is the inspiration or the spark that got me into public speaking, because, and this that this might sound a little bit, a little bit weird, but I looked up to Peter so much I wanted to be him when I grew up. It was that kind of scenario. And I was so impressed by my boss. I was kind of, you know, I was always a big fan of his and the reason was the way he held himself the way he presented himself. So just without going into any detail because it's extremely boring. I worked in corporate law, specifically in the gambling sector.

So my boss was a, a world-renowned expert on the intricacies of gambling law, which, you know, is really not that exciting, but he was nevertheless, an expert. He had written articles he was featured on, you know, publications in the legal world and what have you. But one of the things that just really sort of impressed me about him was the way he presented from stage and he was constantly invited all over the globe, to speak at gambling conferences at legal seminars and what have you about this particular topic. And that's Incidentally, that's actually where I learned about this concept of niche marketing and becoming an expert in one area of or becoming an expert.

In one field, and really sort of becoming the expert then, being known as the expert in that area. And I remember seeing Peter on stage and the difference in the office. I was like, wow, he's able to, like switch on and off between office Peter and stage Peter. I was so impressed by that. And not from a not the angle that I was impressed with was more a case of the skill of being able to do that and being able to communicate the message he was wanting to communicate to the audience and the aura that he had about him the stage presence. And I was, I was, wow, I did, I had sort of, I was starstruck every time I saw this guy on stage and was so humbled and privileged felt privileged that I get to work with him every single day.

And that's where my, my it piqued my interest in public speaking and I remember thinking to myself, well, when I grow up and bear in mind, I'm 22. At this stage, I was saying when I grew up, and I'm like, Peter, I'm going to be speaking on stages all over the world. And I want to be sharing my message or whatever that message may be. And I had no idea I wouldn't end up staying in that in the legal profession. But that's where it started for me long before you and I met John in the personal development world, which actually gave me a for one of a better phrase, my break in, in public speaking, that's where I first set foot on a stage with a real human audience, where people were looking at me I had hundreds of eyeballs looking at me waiting for me to say something clever or something inspiring or something that will change their lives.

And that's where I got the first taste of public speaking. Even though I knew I wanted to do it long before we met and by the time that period of our lives, we were in that period of our lives. I had been out of that little legal world for a number of years already. So I was inspired at the age of 21, 22 by my ex-boss, but it wasn't until maybe my mid-20s when I actually got to put it into practice.

John Ball 
Excellent. Well, you know, it's interesting because just recently on one of my podcast episodes, I was talking with someone about Whitehead, who inspired me in this area. And quite often, it is the case that there's someone you've seen or been around or has some connection with, who inspires people to go down this path? Not always, but often. And for me, it was someone we both know. Donna Martin. Yeah. And so the first time that I saw Jana Martin on the stage, and this was a training she was teaching, training, telling stories and teaching us NLP on the, from the platform. I knew that was what I wanted to do. I wanted to try and I wanted to present that it took me seeing someone like her doing it so well. Now I'd say now she does it even better than she did, then, you know, we saw her maybe in her at some of our earlier presenting dates, but now she's really blossomed into her own brand and our own thing and it's amazing to see what she's doing. And I hope to have her as a guest sometime in the future as well. But for me, she was like a model. Yes. Like for going into that path and coming into the public speaking and recognising what an impact profound impact and the difference you can make to people from that kind of platform.

Suraj Sodha 
Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, similarly to yourself. She was a massive inspiration for me or she is even a massive inspiration for me still, and I you know, I went through her training and courses and spent time at her events back in the day where I was able to refine those skills that I was so inspired by from Peter Shaw, but also from the other events that you and I used to attend together and you know, Sort of volunteer and, and be part of these events, seeing some of those speakers. It's all it was all well and good seeing them from the back of the room and from being a participant in all these various events and actually learning that almost the science behind it that the techniques behind it and not in a shady way when I say techniques, but you know, what is the best way to communicate your message? For me also it was from Joanna Martin. So yeah, that's a great throwback.

John Ball 
Those events, there were so many Australians, I started speaking with an Australian accent.

Suraj Sodha 
It did seem to have a massive Aussie contingent at these events. And who was it was that

John Ball 
that's not a bad thing.

Suraj Sodha 
Not at all.

John Ball 
I love my Aussie friends. For you then, you've done some of that training, you have some inspiration, you've done some speaker training. When did you actually first get up on stage as a speaker to an audience I wasn't there to evaluate you or to help you with your training.

Suraj Sodha 
So it was actually a workshop or a small workshop that I ran in London. And it was around the topic of, you know, growing your business on the internet, what sort of strategies you should be implementing to make your website more visible and, and communicate your offer online in a better way to more people, ultimately, to make more sales. And at that time, I didn't see myself as a speaker. I just saw myself as someone running a workshop and whilst I was at the front of the room for two days, running this workshop, presenting, speaking, you know, helping people out. It wasn't until I was invited to speak at a quite a big multi-speaker format event, which is when I first recognise that oh, well, um, does this mean I'm The speaker now?

So my first time, it wasn't a what I wasn't attending a workshop or speaker training was this little workshop. And I remember I think there was probably about seven or 10 people in the room. And I think that's that that really helped me. Because I didn't see much like that I didn't see myself as a speaker. But I was I practice all of the same elements, the same techniques, the same concept with lots and lots of small events like that. And by taking the almost as the stigma I think was the wrong word, john, but taking away the pressure of labelling myself as a speaker at small events, I think really helped me to then graduate, if you will, to the bigger events.

And it was at one of my first big events, it was an internet marketing event in central London. I think there must have been about 1000 people in the room. They had all paid To be there, and I was, you know, I was I had massive imposter syndrome. I was like, Who am I to speak in front of all these people who have paid money to hear something clever. And I'm gonna rock up and say something that I've been doing, you know, without really the level of success that I would have wanted before I could share this information. And I got up on stage and I did my talk. And at the end of my talk was an hour and a half. I got I before I finished, I said, oh, by the way, this is my very first major event that I've spoken at, right. And, you know, the audience gave me a round of applause and the feedback afterwards. Well, we could never tell that this was the first event that you'd ever spoken at. And it was funny because I had treated that big multi-speaker event thousand people in the room as my first speaking gig.

Yeah, and for me, I even now talking about now I still class that is my first time. But actually when you know when I think a bit deeper about it, it was all of those workshops all over the UK and I used to get in my car, I drove to Bristol, I drove to Cardiff I drove to Birmingham. I drove to Newcastle once I remember for like one night, and I live in London, so there's a long way to go. And I used to couch surf on people's sofas who I knew through various networks and events and said, hey, look, I'm running this workshop in Bristol, can I crash on your couch? Because literally, I need to be in and out and back in London and all this. And that's where I got my training. And I kind of, it's really important for me, when I do podcasts like this as well to remember that that's actually where I learned my public speaking.

You know, myself by actually doing it and actually implementing everything I've learned at these workshops and training events. I've been to So by the time I did a big event, and then it went on to, I spoke in Australia at one of my mentor's events. And by then I had, I was able to draw on and take all the experiences from hundreds of small 10 to 15 to 20 person workshops and apply the same principles to 1000 person workshop and sometimes these people had paid upwards of $1,000 to be in the room. So it does have the added pressure of delivering something of real massive value. I guess that's almost a whole different conversation. But my, my training, if you want to call it that came from the smaller events which is really easy to discount, those are saying, well, I wasn't a speaker that only because there were seven people. It doesn't matter that that's where I learned speaking in front of, you know, people who had paid to be there and will While waiting to be inspired or wanting something to value,

John Ball 
I can remember attending one of your workshops. I don't know how far along that was in your, in your delivery of those things, but I remember it being a good workshop. So thank you stayed with me. One thing that came up just from what you're saying there that I want to come back to, as you mentioned, the old devil of imposter syndrome. I think everybody who ever does any kind of presentation or public speaking anytime you have to get up in front of someone else, and sometimes even when you just showing up in social or networking environment, it comes up for you. When did you actually start to move out of that or did you does it still stay with you?

Suraj Sodha 
Yeah, I was gonna say, I don't think it ever goes away. And it's one of those things that just keeps me. Of course, I can't speak for everyone but certainly for myself. It just keeps me in check, john, it just keeps me grounded. It keeps my ego and my humility in check at the right levels without crossing the boundary into believing that I know everything and I know it all. And you know, I'm the greatest gift that this event is ever going to have, because

nothing else matters apart from what I say.

I like having imposter syndrome and I try where possible to embrace it. It's super difficult because it still gives you those butterflies it gives you that doubt it gives you feelings of self-doubt and self-consciousness. And it does make you question yourself and what am I doing? And you know what, why am I here? What, what's going to happen if this goes wrong? And you do start that self chatter in your head?

That actually is it puts you down, but rather than try and block all of that out, I try in any way, and I'm not saying I'm an expert in it, sometimes, of course, it gets you down. But I try and embrace that imposter syndrome because it means that, hey, I'm not the smartest person in this room. And I'm here to learn as much as to give value. And by framing that up very early on, whenever I, I do a talk, it actually just settles me down, it settles the audience down. And also, it kind of manages their expectations that hang on, this guy is not going to be giving me the single magic bullet answer that I've been waiting for my whole life.

He is just like me, he's also on a journey. And perhaps he's just a little bit further along on that journey than I am as if I was talking in the audience. And that's where I like to position myself and not just for the audience, but for myself, john, because the minute I start to get a little bit too big for my own boots, I know that that's game over for me because that's when my ego is taken over. The minute I start to look down on my audience and say, Well, obviously they're here to listen to me because I'm the clever one, and then they're not that that's sort of game over. So I imposter syndrome is one of these things, I guess, which is it can really hurt your progress. But at the same time, you can actually keep you in check as you progress. And as you go through that journey, and for me, my benchmark is the minute I don't have imposter syndrome.

Even talking to you on this podcast, Johnny, that was sort of pacing for about 15 minutes before we jumped on this thinking, oh my god, what am I going to what we're going to talk about, you know, I don't who am I to talk about presenting and influence and, you know, John's got, he's had so many more accomplished speakers than I am and I ever will be, so it kicks in. But here we are. And you know, it's one of those things right that if I know something a little bit better than Knew I've done something I've had more experience and something new, that potentially qualifies me to talk about it and teach about it and, and coming from a place of paying it forward rather than, look how clever I am. And look at what I can do.

And look what I've thought up because quite frankly, and being totally honest, everything that I've taught, and I'm sure a lot of other speakers you have on your show will agree that everything that we teach from the stage environment or a webinar or podcast, I haven't made it up on all these things. I've not made them up. I've learned them from other people. My role here as a speaker, as a trainers educator, all of us is to simply pay forward what we've learned and he may have been, we may take it from somewhere else and recycle it or rehash it and make it our own and, you know, put our own spin on it and call it something different, but ultimately, I'm yet to find someone who has invented a concept that they've taught? It's all you know, for one of a better phrase, it's just rehashed information. And I'm not saying that in a bad way at all. There's nothing wrong with that. So that's where my imposter syndrome kicks in all the time. But then I remember that, are you even expecting me to come up with a magic formula you've never heard of before? Because absolutely, no, no.

John Ball 
Of course not. But we live in a postmodern world. And by that, I mean, there, everything pretty much already been done, but we still build on it. And we still take the principles or noise that other people have put together or provided us with and we build on that as well. And so we, we take that, hopefully, a bit further, we put our different perspective or spin on it. I really like your spin on imposter syndrome that you make it kind of a healthy thing. To me, it was reminding me of that. But then if you know much about stoicism, but the whole thing like Roman emperors would have the It's all behind them saying memento mori know to remember that they were mortal. Remember that they have to that they're not they're no better than that then their subjects and the people that they're speaking to. And it's that kind of thing as well, that keeping you humble, we're keeping you remembering who you are. I really like that. So very, very healthy frame.

But all too often that imposter syndrome, and just stops people from doing it. You know, you talk about me having much better speakers on the show. And I would probably class you as being a better speaker than me, you know, is that all the time I'm speaking to people thinking, I'm just glad you've come on my show. And you're going to have a conversation with me, but, but in no way am I thinking, Oh, yeah, let's compare you to other people. And because everybody has something unique to say like this conversation is not a conversation I'm ever going to have with anyone else again, before or after. So it is a unique conversation, and it is interesting as well. So thank you for that. But One thing I want to tell the students, I just want to ask you a quick question What has been the most exciting stage you've ever spoken from? And I'm going to add to that do you enjoy speaking now? And Was that something that transition for you? Because most people start off afraid from it, hopefully, end up enjoying it.

Suraj Sodha 
It's a great question. So the stage that I or that the event that I, I was most excited to speak at, apart from, you know, my first one, which was actually in hindsight, I was I can now say I was excited about it at the time, I wouldn't necessarily say I was excited, I was more anxious and nervous. And it's kind of Yeah, one of those kinds of situations, but the one I was most excited about was my very first international event. It was fun, I think how long ago was, I can't even begin to think maybe 10 years ago, a lot a long, long time ago. It was in Australia.

It was on the Sunshine Coast. And I had literally reached out to the organiser and said, you know, hey, I'm, you know, I follow your stuff online and I really like information. I've implemented it. Here are my results from implementing it. What What, what would it take to speak at one of your prestigious events to share what I've done and I kind of pitched it from a point of view. I can come and big you up because I've implemented what you've taught me. And I can be like a walking talking testimonial. And you replied, he said, I think you're ready. See you next month question mark. And I literally like fell off my chair. And I booked a flight out to Sydney, flew from Sydney to I spend a bit of time in Sydney then went to Sunshine Coast and spoke at this event.

I think there were about six 700 people that it all paid a premium ticket today. Be there because of the person that was running it. And the other speakers that were there. And I had the best time of my life. I hired a there was no Airbnb back in back in the day, but the equivalent of like an Airbnb apartment with a couple of other speakers that I knew through the network and just through the community. And we shared this apartment and we thought we were living like students again.

It was amazing, John, I was so excited to be there because I was one of the only Brits on on on the stage. And it was incredible. I felt in that moment that was my "I made it" moment and I still have a picture of me setting up my laptop at this event. Literally 20 something-year-old kid, just just as going along with life, and I was so excited. I remember stepping back and thinking, hang on a minute. I've just like a few years ago I quit by you Boring corporate job in law to start this website business. And now I'm speaking in Australia, the other side of the planet never been to Australia before. Like it was one of the wildest dreams come true. And that was the most exciting and probably one of the most pivotal moments of my speaking career if you want to call it that. And to follow on from that your second question Do what was it? Do I still enjoy speaking? Was that your question?

John Ball 
Do you enjoy it now?

Suraj Sodha 
Yeah, I absolutely enjoy it. And my speaking has changed from that format of, you know, me being on stage delivering value in the sense of these are my three steps or so and so or whatever I'm teaching. My speaking has changed, but I enjoy it immensely. And every time I get off a stage and even if it's not a physical stage, even if I jump off a webinar or a podcast like this, I have such a rush of energy and that that good feeling I literally don't want to do anything else and then it's and then I feel wow I want to do another one straight away and this I guess like the skydive you know when you're you're about to jump I don't know if you've ever done a skydive, I've done a few skydivers.

John Ball
No, I'm too scared.

Suraj Sodha 
It's one of the greatest things I've ever done. And it's the feeling of, you know, that concept of you're, you're up in the plane and the doors open in the plane and you're thinking in your head. Why is the door open in this aeroplane? That's not normal. And then you know, why am I hanging out? Why am I stepping out of this open door in this flying aeroplane, this is not normal. And you're going through these motions, and then you're in freefall to the earth to 300 miles an hour, and it's so liberating and so freeing, and then when you land. The minute I every time I land, my parachute comes off, and I say, I want to do that again. I want to do it again. Let's go now let's do it again all over again.

And that's exactly how I feel every time I speak at an event whether it's a digital or in-person event. I still love it so much. And I know I'm not a polished speaker. And I remember something that actually Jo Martin taught me and she says actually your aim is not necessarily to become a polished speaker. Your aim is to become a profitable speaker. And I've sort of adapted that a little bit because I don't always sell from the stage. In fact, most of my talks, I'm not selling directly from the stage. So for me, it's about being more of an authentic speaker. So rather than a polished speaker, I'd much rather be authentic and just be myself and almost pretend like the audience isn't even there. But I'm just talking about stuff that I'm passionate about.

And, and so yeah, the answer to your question is, I do love it and I get such a buzz such a thrill from it, and I would encourage anyone who hasn't done But you know, wants to give it a go. Now, through podcasts, this is the best form of public speaking because we're speaking to the public without the pressure or the, you know, I guess intimidation of having 200 eyeballs staring back at you with their arms crossed with not very happy faces waiting for you to inspire them this way. I know I'm doing that. But it's without the way without that maybe that visual validation from people, but I'm still doing what I what makes me feel good, which is to give value speak about things that I'm passionate about. And that I love talking about and so the objective is still reached. So I love it. More than anything else?

John Ball 
Yeah, I'm glad you said that. It's good. And I really liked what you shared there as well. And from the perspective of just getting up on a stage and giving value. I think that's the more important thing you know, so, I often get a lot of feedback that I'm a good speaker. Okay, but hopefully I know that to some degree.  It's still nice to hear from other people just to get that external validation. I don't want to find out that it's only me who thinks I'm a great speaker. But sometimes you do still, there's always room for improvement.

Yes, we get too focussed on the things we do wrong.  And I think that can be one of the issues. I'm very active in, in Toastmasters. And sometimes I think that's one of the things that maybe puts people off that is that when you get up and speak in a Toastmasters club when you do a prepared speech Anyway, you will get feedback and you will get feedback on things like how many umms and ahhs you put into a presentation, for example, and that the polished speakers take that stuff out. Well, yes, to a degree, that's true.

However, some of the best speakers I've ever seen in my life have talks full of umms and ahhs. So it's not that it actually necessarily take something away. If it's maybe too much, perhaps it would, but it's really more a case of just giving you that awareness that those things are in your speech. I don't know this is interesting, but I now transcribe the podcast. I wasn't doing it for a while, mostly as a time saver. But people are telling me it's important to do that. So I've been transcribing. And when I get the transcriptions bank services pretty good. I use that otter AI.

And you see all these places where you repeat yourself, where there are these stammers natural speech in your conversation, where you say the same words over and over again, but you don't notice and really, in normal conversation, you tune it out anyway, but when you see it written down, it's glaringly obvious and, and for transcription, you have to clean that stuff up. But in conversation, it's probably not realistic that you're going to cut all that stuff out to just have a conversation like you normally would. Otherwise, you end up being self-conscious about that and forgetting probably what it is you even really want to talk about which is where you're going to freeze up and where you're going to get that brain fog or the I don't know what to say next. Because you're not just there in the moment having that conversation.

And one of the reasons why I call my business Present Influence is also that level of play was being present as well. being in the moment being actually there with your audience, not in your head, thinking about what you're going to say next, or did you do not preparation? Or what kind of feedback Are you going to get afterwards which straightaway takes you out of that, the more experience you get, you can be more relaxed than that being relaxed in those environments does come with experience that confidence comes with experience. That's one of the reasons why having a chat like this is generally a bit more relaxed. You know, we're recording it we can put stuff out if we need to, but we're not focusing too much on Am I saying the right things? Am I gonna mess it up? What am I gonna say next kind of thing. Just the conversation.

Suraj Sodha 
Yeah. And it's funny how a lot of these things that we learned early on in, you know, Speaker training school, is it? For me anyway, I find that a lot of the things I then tend to kind of let go of because I move to a place of actually saying, alright, well, I'm not going to try and perform here. I'm just going to talk and have a conversation and it comes much more from a place of authentic authenticity rather than performance.

John Ball 
Yeah, I agree. And the authenticity is really the more important part they're actually hearing somebody talk as they were taught, not trying to give that polished performance. Now, I guess they had just recently a really good copywriting guy called John Experian, saying exactly this in his book, which I'm just about to finish but talking about hearing people's copy that and have it all polished and perfect, whereas it's actually much better for you to have copy that is how you speak, pretty much, because it's more or less than, and it takes people a while to do that.

And he makes a really good point, plugging his book almost here, but he makes a really good point of that. If you get into a meeting with some people, and you talk like your copy, polished and perfect, yeah, it's gonna be a bit dull, and they're probably not going to buy for you unless you're really really lucky. And it's true, you know, and so, it is like in the in-person, the connection stuff, the imperfect that makes us more relatable and, and, and the lack of worry about that and focuses more on the connection and the value and the being in the moment that makes the biggest difference.

Suraj Sodha 
Exactly. I couldn't gonna put it better myself.

John Ball 
One thing that I really wanted to touch on with you, I mean, you're a great person to follow on social media I have to say and probably that's how we've kept in touch mostly but for the longest time, although we do from time to time and have some tension and a consider you To be an incredibly helpful person as well, I remember, you helped me get my first website set up. So I appreciate that I haven't forgotten that at all. But you also helped me out when I was looking for a cake topper for my wedding cake and things like that, which gave us the solution that we'd been looking for. I mean, just amazing. You're a very genuinely helpful person who wants to help other people. And so that to me, makes you a great person to follow online. I know on LinkedIn, you share a lot of valuable stuff, some humorous stuff, some interesting stuff. So anyone listening to this should definitely come and follow you on LinkedIn or anywhere else where you might want them to do that. Because it's always good to follow people who are sharing good value.


Suraj Sodha 
Yes. And value is not just education, or I believe is not just, here's how to do something. value can be something funny, it can be a joke or dare I say it can be A funny cat video as well.

Which you're gonna see me post one of those later on today.

But isn't that the point of social media? It's about connection. And yeah,  putting our business owner hat on. Yes is about providing value and it's another form of letting people know about your personality. And if you know if we met up and having a meal together or something and all you talked about or let's put it in social media, social media speak, all you gave me was value. I'd be bought out my brain shop. And I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with this concept of your give value.

I know I say that a lot myself. But it's one of these things that's been so overused as an athlete give value first and be value add and all this sort of stuff. How about just be normal and just to share Pay it forward and you know to be a decent person. And that's really like I think what it comes down to and if we focus on right this is a conversation and I'm going to give you value is already too robotic and it's already too over thought because you would never do that in a real in  "real social environment". We seem to do this on LinkedIn and all other social platforms may be somewhat too rehearsed I think even me and I hold my hands up to it. You know, I that's sometimes what goes through my mind Okay, well, no more jokes today, sir, as put something of value out there that someone's gonna it's gonna change someone's life. And of course, there's never anything that I can post that will change someone's life. But yeah, it's interesting, but thank you for that. I really appreciate that you enjoy my posts.

John Ball 
I hope this will impress you. But this is one of the things that I remember from your workshop or those years ago, talking to you talking about social media. They're saying that social media is social media so good just posting about your business if you're just posting about stuff that you're you're gonna be doing or your articles whatever else is boring and social that you have to balance that with posts that might just be about what's coming up or what you're doing that day or not playing with the dog or the cat. Yep. But that's just as important because it's giving people that sense of who you really are. And actually connecting with people on that personal level that not just a project a personality like your ideal into the past, but you're but who you really are. And that's what people will work on their hair. So I remember that from your workshop and that they wouldn't I think it's advice I still give to people in turn.

Suraj Sodha 
Oh, thank you. That's so kind of you to say and, and yeah, you know it is and that that advice still stands so true today. It's social media, it's not advertising. You know, advertising is very different to social media. And I know we have marketers have generally ruined social media because these things were made for socialising and connecting with people and in fact Facebook was made for a very different reason which would be completely unacceptable in this day and age if it was started as a for the reason that it was originally started. I don't know if you know but if Facebook was started for you know, like a hot or not kind of platform to rate girls on campus like, rate guys and girls on campus, you know, what your levels are you attend or your three and it can you imagine someone in the from the tech world in Harvard and Silicon Valley and all this starting a website like that in this day and age, it just wouldn't happen right?

But that's ultimately what these platforms are a site for Twitter was, you know, just to share your thoughts, Snapchat, Instagram, all these things, invite people into your life who maybe are not going to be in your day to day life, but who want to be part of it. And we as business owners have ruined it totally. Because all we want to do is give value, whatever that means. And all you want to do is show how clever we all are. And, you know, share all our information that we're just rehashing from other sources. And there is a place for that I'm not being a total, you know, Grinch about it, there is a place for that, and I do it myself. But I think there has to be some degree of balance there about showing people what's going on in your life and letting them in and socialising Because ultimately, the true test of good businesses that people buy from people, just because you offer a service doesn't mean I will buy it just because you're posting about it all the time.

John Ball 
Yeah, I have a few Facebook friends who I kind of wish had their business profiles separate from their personal profile. Yeah,

Suraj Sodha 
Exactly. And isn't it the case that a lot of these times you kind of switch off after a little while because you think, well, you're just talking about, you're sort of selling me something. And, and, and you're using this platform to advertise to me. And I still use that example of going to a party. You know, if you were to go to a party or a social environment, you know, drinks, someone's birthday drinks or whatever. And in the small talk, rather than going into Oh, how do you know so and so making all the usual small talk, you say, hey, do you want consultancy? Or did you want a website? Do you need some coaching? They're going to look at you weird, and that you're going to look like a bit of a freak and a bit of a weirdo at this party to undersell your services. But guess what, if you socialise with those people, you get to know them, you have a drink with them or you know you have a nice meal and a nice conversation about things that you have in common. Maybe more often than not, they themselves will be more interested in saying, Oh, hey, John, what would you do? I overheard you say something about coaching or consultancy or workshops and training. Tell me more about that. And all of a sudden, you're going into the topic of what you do without ramming it down someone's throat. Yeah.

John Ball 
So I've got a whole webinar about networking. And other than that, I'm gonna have to make some additions because I wholeheartedly agree with you. And I think that it's really important. One thing that has been very interesting about following you on social media is you've had some very significant life changes over the years, but I've been Yes, following you. And not least of which is your different direction of career back to what I first need to be in and you've talked about some of that, but probably one of the most interesting certainly one of the most inspiring to me, personally, has been your physical transformation. Yes. That you have gone From I wouldn't have said you were really taking big before but you went slim either not gonna, you know, something I've struggled with myself in my life, but you have transformed into some super-fit, motherfucker. Now, with all these changes, I want to know a bit more about what inspired it and what got you on that journey and what you have noticed different in your life because of doing this.

Suraj Sodha 
Yeah, that's an interesting one. So, like you said, I wasn't necessarily you're unhealthily overweight or anything. You know, I couldn't necessarily take my shirt off at the beach and be massively proud about it. But it was I was early, my early 30s sort of is chubby but not quite. Not unhealthily chubby, but not fully happy with my appearance, but what triggered my full body transformation from chubster to being featured in Men's Health magazine entirely sort of ripped and shredded to bits was actually hitting a really low point in my life. And going from you know, what you want to call cloud nine to two that rock bottom place where you're literally scraping yourself off the ground.

I was very happily married. I was doing good things my business was great I just sold my one of my agencies for you know, a big amount of money and was looking forward to a married bliss house, a new house of babies, all the rest of the stuff that comes with that lifestyle. And long story short, I, my wife and I ended up separating and getting a divorce in a very short space of time. It was very much a roller-coaster period of my life and I found myself you know the end with no business, no wife, no baby that we were planning a house that we were planning to buy, except for you know what have cash in the bank account because I'd sold my agency earlier that Yeah, so I had this massive void in my life in all areas. And I found myself really low really stuck no purpose in life, no real direction.

I was seeing a relationship coach at the time, and she said, you know, just for starters, find yourself a hobby, do something you don't associate with your ex-wife, go learn a language or something and then cooking or do something, do something to take your mind off it and to disassociate from all of the feelings you're having. And I ended up finding the gym. I went to the gym and again, massive sort of anxiety and not quite imposter syndrome, but almost like out of I'm so out of place here because I'm this chubby guy in my brand new shiny gym kit, which I spent lots of money on, but I don't look Like all these people in the gym who are wearing old rubbish gym kits, but they look amazing, and I kind of focus on the wrong thing.

So I went into the gym and just kept going, I kept going, I created new habits in my life, I created new habits systems to really focus on every single day making sure I'm not in a bad way, but in a good way, ticking all the boxes I needed to take to meet my habit systems that I was creating for myself. And before you know it, I started losing all of this weight. And it started to make me feel good. Not just because I could see myself getting leaner and fitter and slimmer. But actually, from what you said earlier, some external validation from other people saying, Oh, hey, you know, we lost some weight. And you know, it might be really I don't know if it's a polite thing to say to people anymore, or if it's PC or think you've lost loads of weight, but whatever the scenario is, it felt really, really, really good. And it drove me to say, Well, yeah, and I want more people to say that to me. So I'm going to go to the gym even more, and I'm going to hit even harder.

And then I got a trainer who, who, who basically I explained my situation to and I said, I need you to take me to my extreme age push me to my extreme like really take me to a place that I can't take myself. And so we went into this full-blown body transformation programme, which included no overhaul of my nutrition and really understanding my nutrients and my macros that I needed to eat to sustain my body and my fitness and my strength, as well as a gym routine. And over a period of 12 to 18 months. I basically lost I think 25 to 30 kilogrammes of weight, got totally ripped, you know, got this amazing physique. That was like massive magazine level physique and was able to sort of dig myself out of that hole that I'd essentially found myself in.

 So I read and one thing my trainer talks about a lot is this concept of the physical is simply the vehicle. So it's actually not about the muscles of the body or the physique or the look and the aesthetic of it. Look, don't get me wrong, it helps it looks great, it feels great, gives you a massive confidence boost. You know, when you look in the mirror and you look good, and you feel good, and clothes fit better and all of this. But the much more important benefits and the important transformation is what you don't see which is the mental transformation, the mindset transformation, and how that kind of permeates into all areas of your life.

And I found that the habits, systems and the discipline, all the awareness and the consciousness that I've created In order to achieve this insane physical transformation, it was the very same things that I had to apply in my business to achieve a business transformation. You know, you still need the same level of discipline, the same habits systems, the same level of consistency. Whether you're publishing a podcast or blog, or you're making cold calls, the same concept applies to getting a breakthrough there. As well as a breakthrough in the gym. If you're aiming to lift you know, 100 kg dead weight, for example. It's about these small steps and small consistent steps, or as my coach says, ruthless consistency, you know, almost at all costs. And if you apply that in all these areas of your life, your body, your being, your spirit, your spirituality, your balance, which is your relationships with a significant other or family and friends, and then your business.

There's, there's no reason, there's no law as to why you can't have a transformation in any of those sorts of areas of your life that are important to you. So it very much was a case of a distraction from what I was feeling at the time. But it turned into this enormous passion that I've found. What you know, I awakened this, this newfound passion for, for for for health and wellness and training and going to the gym. And I ended up loving it so much. So yeah, that's the story and you've seen the pictures, john, you've seen the case study and, and, yeah, it was a, an incredible journey, one which had actually and ironically has nothing to do with my body.

John Ball 
Right. But I mean, I can only so go from a perspective of, or what I imagine here because, you know, I wouldn't describe myself as being the fittest of people though. For me. In the last, even within the last six months, I've lost something like, I think I'm gonna try and say something like 25 kilogrammes, which was amazing. But there's still a way to go, but you know, I've taken inspiration from you from your journey, to see that you've made such a huge transformation, I wouldn't say I'm going for that level of ambition myself, but certainly to get that, that it does start to change how you see the world when how the world sees you see you starts to change as well.

Suraj Sodha 
Totally, totally. And, and, and, and, unfortunately, that it can also make you realise, you know, sometimes how shallow the world sees things. How shallow the views of certain people or certain parts of the world are, which is not something necessarily to be proud of, but it's certainly something to be aware of and be more conscious about but from a positive point of view. You absolutely it makes you feel good it because you know, then you're inspiring other people and the amount of messages that I had to say, well, you know what I've also had this problem and, and not just from, like people wanting to lose weight, but actually people going through similar life situations that that that I was, you know going through mental health challenges going through depression going through relationship problems and I'm by no means an expert in any of those areas certainly not relationships or mental health but the impact that it had on me it kind of inspires others to take a different step or a different view. And not everyone wants to or needs to go through such an extreme programme like I did, but it really does change the way that you feel and the way you look at yourself when others are looking at you in a more inspiring way. And impacts everything impacts your business. impacts your well being your might your mindset impacts your ideas, your creativity, everything around you.

John Ball 
Yeah. And we may be coming back a bit to the imposter syndrome we mentioned earlier, you know, I know that sometimes I've had getting up on stage as well. As soon as you get up in front of people, people are making judgments about you whether or unfairly they are. And you know, if you're, if your weight isn't within what people consider to be the ideal range, then you know, people are making judgments that are too skinny, or too big. That's the first thing people are noticing about you and I'm making a judgement about that. You don't need to know for you too much or that you don't have self-control. You know that that's what's in people's heads. You don't want it to be and it's unavoidable, but then you kind of almost end up getting a bit obsessed about that, but that's what people see.

But it does change because we all know that when you actually start to get to know someone a bit, you start to see them for who they are more than what they look like. And that is the that is the bigger part of it. But you're right, for the most part, the world is pretty superficial. And you know, I know, not just from insecurity, but I know that there have been opportunities that I may have missed out on because I wasn't I didn't look as healthy as I could look didn't look as clean as they would have wanted me to look for those opportunities. And is that something you relate to at all? Do you do you get? Do you get that? Do you feel that there was a difference between who not just with a different physical transformation, but that there were things maybe missed out on securities that were particularly coming up for you at that time?

Suraj Sodha 
Yeah, it's hard to say, you know, if I miss specific opportunities, because, you know, nobody would tell me that that's the reason I would not be put forward for something but I could definitely feel it and I almost like created those limitations on the opportunities that I would then try and go for myself. So, you know, nobody ever said to me, Well, you're a bit chubby, so maybe it's not the right thing for you or anything like that.

But I started doing that to myself. And that's how, you know I kind of restricted opportunities inadvertently for myself. A lot of these things, yeah, did involve public speaking and did involve applying to speak at certain events. Because you look again, using the, we talked earlier about the world being quite superficial and shallow. We also part of that world and we are also the same human beings that we're referring to that are looking at a world in a slightly superficial way. We all do it.

And I remember being in the I was in Austria. Attending an industry event is a website, a web developers seminar. It was one of the biggest in Europe, and they put out a call for speakers. And I was like, Well, I know my stuff. I've built a web agency for coming up to a decade, I, I've got all the experience, I've got more experience and most of these speakers here, combined, and I've got real value to add. But I was in Europe, I was looking at speakers from Italy and from France, from Spain, from Germany, all the Europe and all over the world. And feeling conscious that you know, I was not, I didn't fit the visual of speakers on these big stages. These guys are quite, you know, do they're all tall, they're all quite fair. They look good wearing these cool suits, and I couldn't pull that off because when I wear a suit, you know, doesn't quite sit right on me or whatever so that the physical appearance definitely impacted me and maybe you know.

Maybe it wouldn't have made any difference, if I'd applied to speak at these events and I'd got the gig, it wouldn't have made any difference. And I don't for one second think they would have looked at my picture and said, Well, he's a fatty, so let's not have him. But it impacts the decisions that we make for ourselves. So yeah, I definitely felt those insecurities and, and even now, like, you know, a year on from this transformation, where I'm at a stage of maintaining my weight and my muscle and maintaining it at a level that is more sustainable and you can live with it on a day to day basis is also a challenge in itself.

Because now I know whenever I get onto a podcast, or people read a blog about this transformation, all they imagined me looking like is this. Men's Health Cover ripped, ripped guy like looks like this all year round. which is not the case. You know, if I post something on Instagram, for example, one of the insecurities What goes through my mind is, hang on, people have seen me with my shirt off looking absolutely no like ripped to pieces. But this image doesn't show me in that same light anymore because it's been a year. And I'm my goals are different.

I don't, I can't stay at that same level all year round. So what will people think? Well, people think I, you know, I kind of faked it or it was photoshopped or, you know, you still go through this insecurity and I don't think there's anyone who is totally entirely comfortable with the way they look in the way that they're going to be perceived by their friends, family, clients, colleagues, what have you. I don't think that ever goes but it's about managing the expectations that you have of yourself and of those looking at your content online.

John Ball 
We all have our insecurities about something or other and yeah, other people don't notice now and I know we're sort of running some time here and I hope you're okay because there's a few things I want. That's fine. Let me know if you need to. If we need to comes up. But one thing I did want to get on to, is that something there's something even though you've been running a very successful Meetup group for quite some time. And I think if I remember rightly, it started off as meetup for marketing, but it's really now become more of an entrepreneurial meetup. So I'd like to ask you a bit more about that and what it is you do and what it's done for the people who attended.

Suraj Sodha 
Yeah, so I spent, you know, a bit over a decade building my online businesses, having a good degree of success with those businesses, and I got to a stage in my life, John, where I felt and it sounds a bit cheesy, it sounds really corny, but I really felt this sort of duty, a duty or responsibility to pay forward and to share the things that are learned along the way. Now, you can say, well, I've been doing that for 10 years anyway, through events and workshops and blogs and podcasts and what have you, but actually coming from a very different place of let's create a community of other people who are different stages of their, their entrepreneurial journey. And they simply want to learn from others with no, you know that there's no ulterior motive, there's no, I'm not doing it to raise the profile of race or to build a brand or anything like that at all. It's coming from a place of this sense of responsibility that I've had a taste of the success, and I have to have to give it away. I have to pay it forward. Because that's how I got it myself.

The only reason I had the successes and the failures that I had was because other people paid it forward to me knowingly or unknowingly, whether they were teaching me directly or I was reading a book There's all reading their blog or watching the videos. And I felt this deep sense of duty that, you know, as entrepreneurs, we, we owe it to makes me sound really old. But we owe it to like the next generation of entrepreneurs who are learning the ropes themselves. And we can shortcut their success very quickly by just telling them or, or shining a light on something that they may not see themselves for another five years, simply because they know that they just won't get to that stage in their journey until they've had a few failures and successes themselves. So I think whether or not they take it on board, whether or not they implement it, even if they ignore it, we have a duty to give it away and to pay it forward and to give that heads up to those who need it. Because if it wasn't for others doing that for me over the last decade, I wouldn't have learned what I know and I wouldn't have had anything to share and to reshare to my audience.

So that's what Entrepreneur Jam is, it's a community of like-minded entrepreneurs and speakers who just want to give stuff away because they're passionate about it. And they're kind of past the point in their business in their lives where they need to speak at an event in order to sell something. Or they're a little bit past that phase in their lives. Where they're doing it to raise their profile. We've had some incredible speakers people who are the founder of Cobra beer last January, the Lord Bilimoria, we've had other Lords we've had people with MBAs, people who've had a massive impact in business and entrepreneurship in this country and abroad, but are not looking to sell a course or an E-book or a workshop or anything like that or raise their brand because Lord Bilimoria I don't think I can raise a Lord's brand anymore, then and then he already has right And he doesn't need me to do that. And the concept came out from combat where I was speaking to these people. And I remember having a call with a guy who is a real expert in, in time management and getting more done in less amount of time. And I told someone, I've got this call with this guy, and it's going to be super exciting these talks about how you can, you know, achieve so much more in less time and, and all this stuff.

And they said, Oh, would you let me know what he says? And this is gonna go back a year or two years? And he says, I said, Yeah, sure. I'll give you a call afterwards. And of course, I forgot to give this person a call or when we did eventually speak a few weeks later, I'd kind of forgotten what we talked about in this chat with this guy I was talking about and he said, Well, did you record it you know, as a podcast or something I said, Well, I'm not really I wasn't really into that and podcasts weren't really a thing couple of years ago, as much as they are now. So he says, well though, I bet you there'll be 50 people who would love to be a fly on the wall on that conversation or to that conversation. I think that's interesting. You know, what, how could we do that. And that's how the live events were created.

And the concept of the live event is like a talk show. It's not a presentation, there's no slideshows or anything like that. There's no new speaker, doing a stand-up, presentation. It's me interviewing somebody else. It's like you and I are doing here but in front of a live audience. And I joke about it at the events, there's like, it's like The Oprah Winfrey Show. I'm Oprah. When I get the crowd going, I call in this expert, and I interview them in front of the crowd and we kind of forget that the audience is there. It's just me and the other person having a conversation about things that I want to learn from them. It just so happens that there are 100 people sitting in front of us, also learning from them.

So it's the concept of come in, watch me learn from These experts. And I guess that's also the concept of a podcast, right? So it's almost like a live into our ears. It's a live interview with experts who are just sharing information. And I love doing it. And so that's what I was talking about before. When I said my, my public speaking has changed very much from what it used to be on stage, delivering a presentation. Now almost being the interviewer and just facilitating other people delivering value, and me learning at the same time, it's kind of, I'm killing a lot of birds with one stone, I'm helping other people to learn. I'm paying forward to things that I know and I'm facilitating these super, super successful individuals who, who also feel the sense of responsibility of sharing the information they know

John Ball 
If anyone listening is in or around the London area and wanted to check that out, where would they need to find information?

Suraj Sodha 
One of two places either on meetup.com which is where the meetup is hosted, you can find it there just type in entrepreneur jam. And the other places on Facebook there's a Facebook group called entrepreneur jam you just search for it on Facebook, you'll find all the pages and the groups for it there. And that's where obviously I'll share the new events that are coming. Do you want to go digital with it as well and then bring it into the current age of podcasts and be able to reach more people of course with everything that's going on right now, it will be difficult to bring 100 people together in a small confined space. But I'd love for anyone listening to this to come down and get involved.

John Ball 
So people can get in touch with you through meetup and find out more about entrepreneur jam is there anywhere else where people can come and find out more about you?

Suraj Sodha 
Yeah, the hub of all of my stuff, whether it's the Entrepreneur Jam Meetup, whether it's my businesses and the services that I offer, and all of my content that I'm signed, signed to publish, about my advice and my tips and things that I've learned along the way, is my website, which is https://www.surajsodha.com/. And that's where you can, that's where I'm going to be publishing and spending most of my time and from there, of course, you've got my social media profiles, it's just my name. There's not many people call so so during the wealth if you search me on any of the main platforms, you'll find me and I'd love to connect with people and, and just learn about what you're doing and there's anything I can share with other people then absolutely send it my way.

John Ball  
We'll make sure that that all goes in the show notes for sure. Yeah, that's a privilege. I don't have, not having a name that I share with other people because there's plenty of people called John Ball or variations on it. Yeah, it's a little unfortunate sometimes but memorable. In other ways, so, one thing then as we start to wrap up, I like to ask my guests for a book recommendation. And it may not necessarily be to, to relate to anything we talked about, but maybe relating to something that you have found personally useful a book that you would always recommend or maybe even give to us clients or a friend, what would that be?

Suraj Sodha  
So, I've spent the last few months just really diving deep into a number of books, but there's one book, it stands the test of time for me. I have been giving this book away, probably for the best part of seven to eight years. I give away so many copies every year, I literally have no idea. It was actually a book recommended to me, john by a mutual context of as Dune Alley in Australia, about seven or eight years ago, who told me about this book. It's called 'The go-giver'. It's by  Bob Berg and John David Mann. And it's written as a fable. It's an ultra-simple, you know, simple and easy book to read. It's a, it's not a textbook kind of business book. It's not a how-to business book is written as a fable. And that book impacted me so much when I read it seven years, eight years ago, I literally reached out to the author afterwards read it. 

I think I pretty much read it in one sitting and said, I need to spend some time with you. I need to come to your conference, your event, whatever. And he happened to be having an event in Florida A few months later, which I flew out for. And it was the content of this book, just impact the way I run my business and elements of my life as well. The book talks about five stratospheric Laws of Success, and I won't go into them now. I don't want to ruin it or do them an injustice. But the book talks about these five Laws of Success that are universal, that will allow us as individuals to grow a business or to just live a better, more whole wholesome life. 

And I cannot recommend it enough. I give these books away at my events as well, you know, every now and then if I'm talking about something, if I did, I did this at the last event, which was last year. Now. Normally, it's a monthly event. But last year, when we had one of our end of year events,  I think we had about 50-60 people in the room and I said, like this book, and the I referenced this book as part of my interview with somebody. And I said, if anyone wants this book, I believe in this message so much, just email me your address, and I'll get a copy sent out to you. And, you know, it's that important to me that people more and more people read this book, especially those who I work with. And of course, there are hundreds of incredible life-changing books that I read as well but if I had to read one Which is not a typical business book, it would be that one, the go-giver is a great,

John Ball  
Great book. I remember Duane sending out that recommendation, I bought it based on his recommendation also, and I love it.

Unknown Speaker  
Just Just

John Ball  
a few weeks ago, he recommended it to one of my clients as a big fan to read it. Yeah. And it is a book that i would second that it's a great book for anybody to read. So thank you for that. Let's close up the podcast then with a final thought maybe I should have asked you to prepare for this.

Unknown Speaker  
Put me on the spot now.

John Ball  
Well, but just a final thought maybe a bit of your own personal philosophy or some action that you would want people to take or maybe even something that relates to stuff that's going on right now. But just a closing thought to leave everyone with

Suraj Sodha  
I think lead with an authentic reason why you're doing things. If you're launching a podcast if you're launching a blog, if you're launching a service or product Or an event, whatever it might be, you know, we hear about people saying, make sure you have you know your why, you know your purpose, you know your, your ultimate end goal. I think we need to add just a word in front of that which is authentic authenticity. It's all well and good say my Why is to change the world and my Why is to do so insert rather than that, why coming out of an exercise of some sort where you've got a big piece of paper and you're writing out everything that you want to get out of your brain. 

Just make it authentic, and it doesn't have to be a life-changing mission role, a world-changing mission that you're on to, you know, impact every human being on the planet. It as long as this comes from a place of authenticity, and integrity. Anything can work anything you can if your thing is about making money right now in wherever you are in your life right now and you just need to make more money. That's totally fine, but do it with integrity. Under offering an authentic solution to someone's problem, and if your thing is about curing something or solving other people's problems, as long as it comes from a place of doing it out of integrity and authenticity, I think you're onto a good thing. So that's that would be my closing thoughts. There are too many people doing things in authentically and with the lack of integrity. on social media, like we talked about earlier, it's very easy to spot those people. So if you're the person sharing and giving authentically and with integrity, it's actually easier for you to stand out that way. And you don't have to work as hard either.

John Ball  
Yeah, that's great. And these are things I hear business owners and entrepreneurs talking about more and more operating within ethical frameworks operating from a place of authenticity and service. And it is a good conversation to hear and one that I hope continues to spread, especially through the corporate part really as well. Yeah, it's very needed. So that's, that's a great thought to close up on and we will close with that Suraj it's been a real pleasure talking to you. You've been a fantastic guest. It's been a really interesting conversation. And I look forward to connecting with you again in the future.

Suraj Sodha  
Thank you so much. It's been an absolute honour to be on your show. I'm so glad we got to do this and I can't wait to see more of how we can help other people and do more things together like this. Excellent. Thank you so much. Thanks.