The Spiritual Nature of Animals with Dr Karlene Stange, DVM

Does your pet have a soul?  Does your dog consider death?  Do animals experience emotions like we do?  How do animals fit into our religions?  In the end, how can one cope with the suffering of a beloved companion animal... or is it really suffering that we see? These and many other weighty questions are investigated in Dr Karlene Stange's amazing book, The Spiritual Nature of Animals, which chronicles her amazing, 20+ year journey as a veterinarian and her intensive studies of the world's religious, philosophical, scientific and spiritual traditions, as they relate to animals.   Join Dr Stange, DVM and host Greg Tilford, as we explore the joys, challenges and sorrows of loving and caring for animals, from a perspective that will open your mind and nurture your heart.

Transcript

spk_0:   0:10
Does your dog really feel love? It was really aware of your love and the emotions of others around him. Do animals have souls? Does your pet think about death? How will you handle the death of your companion? Are you terrified by the thought of senior pet suffer? Hi, I'm Greg pilfered and welcome to your vital pet. My guests for this episode has been investigating these and many other weighty questions for decades. As a child doctor, Carlene Stanny wanted to be an animal doctor even before she knew the word veterinarian. After graduation from Colorado State University Veterinary School in 1985 she practiced large and small animal medicine near Durango, Colorado. Today, Dr Stang manages of busy practice from her county home, treating animals with AKI puncture, herbal medicine and nutritional therapies. Doctor staying spiritually journey began as she drove her pickup truck loaded with medical supplies to attend the animals throughout southwestern Colorado. As an ambulatory veterinarian, she experienced the challenges, sorrows and joys of working with creatures great and small. By sharing intimate moments with these non human beings, Carlene came to feel a powerful kinship with them that goes beyond feathers, flesh and fur. She wanted to understand a non physical aspect of animals and spent over 20 years and research. Her book, The Spiritual Nature of Animals, a Country Vet, explores the wisdom, compassion and souls of animals chronicles her amazing journey through the world's religious, philosophical, scientific and spiritual traditions, as well as stories about the magnificent Rocky Mountain terrain and the quirky characters both animal and human, who inhabit it. Dr. Stan, he learned that there is no death. Suffering does have a purpose, and we're all one connected in spirit. You're staying a thank you for joining us on your vital pet. I can't wait to get started on this.

spk_1:   2:16
Well, thanks for having me on your show, Greg. I've known you for a long time, and it's really great to reconnect.

spk_0:   2:23
Yeah, Yes, Come. One of the things that really has come into awareness with me. It's just how much we think alike and how we're kind of following the same path of of loving animals, so to speak. I mean, in my life, in my realization, in my career path, I've come to realize that animals really serve us in so many amazing ways that really it's it's on them. I mean, we're only giving him a place to live and giving him good food and giving love and care. But they're really bringing a lot into human existence. And it's just a matter of learning how to listen and pay attention to what their lessons are

spk_1:   3:06
right. They definitely are here for our lessons on, and we are for them. We share everything with them.

spk_0:   3:16
I mean, it's it's mind boggling. What? What did the body of research that you found with regard to how we've revered and worship these animals? Really, as long as we've been around, you know, it's often said that animals have no soul that they don't love, like we do where they can't love and, you know. And then there's the arguments about animal domestication. Dogs have been part of humankind for 20 or 30,000 years. Maybe, but by reading your book, looking at your book, I have come to realize that this has been going on a lot longer than just 20,000 years, right?

spk_1:   3:53
Uh huh. From the beginning of time, from the beginning of life on Earth, right?

spk_0:   3:59
Absolutely. And, you know, I think maybe you agree with this tear that the key to understanding them is to spend time with them and open your heart and mind thio and trying to look past our own, as I kind of put it, our own weaknesses in our own human condition, to embrace just how powerful and specialty really are.

spk_1:   4:22
Yeah, I I just One of the things that just made me crazy in my early veterinary of years is how could people say things? You know, I heard these three main beliefs that people said one is animals do not feel complex emotions such as love. The second was non human. Animals are not conscious and the third was non human. Animals do not have soul, and that made no sense to me from from what I'd seen can I give you a story to explain why

spk_0:   4:52
it may be crazy. One day

spk_1:   4:54
I was worked one day is working at the Animal Hospital on Woman came in carrying a fishing basket, and you started out by saying, I've never liked cats. But I've noticed these feral cats living in the woods near my house. And then she went on to explain that it was a warm spring day, and she had the sliding glass door open to her deck. And she was on the telephone when she saw these two cats come on her deck before she had time to react. They stuck their head through the door and drop this, she said as she opened the fishing basket. And inside was this very tiny, very fuzzy, butterscotch colored kitten. It was very emaciated and hungry. And so imagine my confusion. What kind of unloving, unconscious Solis beings would venture into enemy territory to drop their starving baby at the doorstep? You know only veterinarians. We see this kind of of compassionate behavior among animals all the time, so I just I This isn't right. I need to understand. So I went on to do the research and then regarding love. Here's the test to determine who loves you more, your dog or your spouse. You lock each one in the trunk of a car for an hour and find out which ones Happy to see you when you let them

spk_0:   6:16
out. That's

spk_1:   6:19
a joke, but it rings true, meaning it's intuitively obvious that animals love their offspring. They love their companions, and they love the affection of their favorite humans. So you like what you mean? Animals don't feel love. Like I couldn't understand how people can say this. The other one was conscious. You know, um, how can they say an animal is not conscious when eyes of a seminarian can make an animal unconscious with anesthesia, right, Animals dream. That's a state of consciousness. You can watch your little paws going in there whimpering. They're dreaming. And so you know, why are we saying these illogical things about animals? And so I mean a turtle, maybe more aware, aware than a human with dementia, We're Why do we think we're so superior? And I believe the Bible Answer to that question. And it It also answers the question of Do animals have souls? And if you you got to realize first that nowhere in the Bible does it say that animals do not have souls or eternal spirit, I'm in contrary Ecclesiastes, these 3 18 through 19 state. I said in my heart, with regard to the sons of men, that God is testing them to show them that they too are beasts for the fate of the sons of man and The fate of the beast is the same as one guys so dies the other, and they all have the same breath from the Hebrew word rou ha kh meaning spirit. They all have the same spirit, and man has no advantage over the beast for all is vanity. It's our human vanity that makes us think we're superior. Our egos make us think we're superior to the other animals, but the Bible tells us we're the same. We're animals to humans, don't have sonar like bats and dolphins. And we don't have the vision of eagle or the sense of smell of a bear. We can't shape, shift and change the color of our skin like an octopus. But the one thing humans do have and superior quantities, the other animals is the ego, and the ego makes us more creative, like beavers make dams. But we make hydroelectric plants. Okay, we're creative and were very attached to our creations. And our ego is that creativity. But it has a dark side, that self serving, selfish viewpoint. So we think we're better. We're not. We're just different. We have a saying spirit. We have love, we have consciousness. It's all one same thing. We just have different bodies.

spk_0:   9:06
Yeah, I think we also have this inherent wish to control everything around us, you know, and whether we're conscious of that or not, it's the ego speaking here again, as you would say, but it's we don't really have control of it. And when we think about animals having souls, when you think about animals loving, maybe it's just too much for us. Maybe it's true frightening for humankind to think in terms of equality with all this life around us. You know, I often sit in class and look out into the mountains and realize, you know, right now a bolt of lightning could come down and fry me, or I could be washed away just like an ant's being washed away by a guard knows I'm just his vulnerable to nature as everything else in nature, you know, and I've learned

spk_1:   9:49
absolutely

spk_0:   9:50
listening and watching my dog, for instance. One of the first things that occurs to me is that my dog does not live in anticipation of death. He loves me, but you live in anticipation of losing May. He doesn't live in anticipation of anything negative he just lives in anticipation of what's happening next, and he lives in a much more

spk_1:   10:11
He's living in the present

spk_0:   10:12
moment. They

spk_1:   10:13
live in

spk_0:   10:14
the present

spk_1:   10:14
moment.

spk_0:   10:15
Absolutely.

spk_1:   10:16
There's a cute little cute little book, Bar Eckert Totally. And Patrick O'Donnell is a little cartoon book called Guardians. Guardians of Being and you know, it's just they're so joyful because they're right here right now in the present moment. And that's where I found my bliss was learning to be in that present moment, particularly, was suffering as a veterinarian. See, so much suffering is just disturbing. It's just disturbing we, you know, And the suicide rate all over the world for veterinarians is higher than that general public, because we we hurt, exposed to so much graphic suffering and how do we deal with it? You know, Marc Bekoff told me that the reason we don't accept that animals are conscious and have sold on such is because then we'd have to look at how we treat them. And, um so you know, we have to be superior so we can would do what we do, eat them and so on. Now you know, the spiritual teachings talk about all of that. And, um, for me, I just feel so grateful for ah having done the research for my book because it helped me change my interior, which was agony. I was in a state of horrible agony. Ah, from the thoughts and images I saw in my head at night, I couldn't sleep. I mean, it's just depressing of their new medicine sometimes. And, um so you know, the research really taught me how to find bliss and let me explain. So there's all this suffering, right? There's my heart goes out right now to the Australian veterinarians who are grieving with all these burned qualities and other animals killed and injured by the fire. And, you know, it's just tremendous devastation. It's overwhelming for them, you know. So how how can how can you deal with that as a veterinarian? How do you find peace with that? Well, the ancient Taoist taught that the purpose of life is to transform suffering into wisdom and compassion. And so that's one of the things that I learned to dio, and it's by being present with the suffering rather than drinking or getting high or whatever to avoid it. face be with it, you know, be present with it. Ram Das always says that, you know, be president

spk_0:   12:56
and

spk_1:   12:56
Mother Teresa. She was like, suffering. Oh, sweets up. Bring because there's this sweet spot in there where you let go of the physical and you just connect to the spiritual. So what an example that I use is, um the teaching of equanimity equanimity the teachings across religious teachings that talks about how you let go of your clinging for something to be the way you want it to be and also lickle of, ah, version. I'd want to look at that and you just be with it in peace. And so I read about it, and it sounds easy, but it's not. But I learned from this dog. Can you talk about the dogs? Teaching This stinky old golden retriever was brought to my house and it had a big tumor on its side, and it was draining bloody serum, all about the place. And everybody was telling his people that they they needed to kill him. He needed to end his life and his suffering, but they looked in his eyes and they still saw all this love and they just couldn't do it right, so they wanted my help. So I have to is a veterinarian. We have to let go of aversion to book. You know, we have to not go. You put it away. Kill it. I don't want to look at it anymore. No, we have to. We have to help the people. That's our duty. You have to help the animal. And so when I let go of my judgment about what's going on, and I just am present with it, I connect with the spirit of the animal which feels just blissful. And then I connected with the spirit of the people who love this dog. And they're sharing their joyful love that the unconditional love that they shared and it felt oh, felt wonderful, you know? And from there I was moved to caring. Okay, now what can I do to help? So I could been clean this tumor, and I covered it with a big I found a big, absorbing abdominal rap so we could cover it up and put a ace bandage around it that they could wash and reuse. Now people don't have to look at it right. You can just look at his happy face in these waguih tail and you know, I did from acupuncture and game some urgency. But everybody felt heard. You know, what's the hurry to kill the dog? You know, there's still time to share the love and say good bye. The truth is, we think the animal suffering but who's really suffering is us because we're judging it. Our judgment is so painful. We want a quick bury it so we don't have to look at it. There's no over. The dog is gonna be fine, Okay? He's still happy. Still eating still loved his people. Time is short. Let's enjoy that rather than quickly. We're always telling everybody. Hurry up. Put that dog sleep. It doesn't need to happen if they want to. That's fine to the animals, so it'll hold it against you. They love you no matter what, because they don't have that judgment. That duel mind. I thought that we got when we ate the fruit of knowledge of good and evil. As the Bible puts it, we've got this this duel mind That's right. Wrong. They didn't they know you don't want him to walk through the carpet with their mud on but on their feet. But they'll do it again tomorrow

spk_0:   16:08
because they're

spk_1:   16:09
not worried about it.

spk_0:   16:11
Good. Yeah. And you know the thought of what you're describing. I mean, a veterinarian has to go through this process over and over and over again. And, you know, you found a solid basis, you know, way too to think your way and believe your way through this. It's it's beautiful. And but it shouldn't be lost in the mind of the pet owner either. I mean, I've known so many people who at the passing of a pet of a dog, a cat, whatever they're grieving consists of a shutdown. I don't want to talk about it. I don't want to think about it. Like you said, I'm gonna go get drunk. Or so it's gonna numb myself when the reality is in my mind the greatest lessons of that relationship. Just by virtue of what we are the way we are humans. The way we think the greatest lessons often come during that grieving period, the greatest gift we get from the passing animal comes in hindsight of Oh my gosh, I never really considered how important this animal was to me and how this'll dog brought me unconditional love and lessons of selflessness and and time wasted. I couldn't even teach to my own human Children, you know, and it shouldn't be suppressed. It should be embraced. You know, it's crying if it means screaming into a canyon. But embrace it. Think about it. Wait. A precious gift that is just so vitally important.

spk_1:   17:37
Right? And so, like, the Tibetans teach, um, that after death, you could do this any time after an animal dies, is imagine them turning in, you know, becoming white light. Imagine them, for example. I had to shoot my old horse. He's 34 Okay, nothing worked anymore. I love that horse more than anything, but he just was. Everything was falling apart, right?

spk_0:   18:04
So

spk_1:   18:04
we had to put him down. And so I imagined the place I shot him in the head, turning into a unicorn horn and him turning into this white being and flying off like Pegasus and becoming one with divine white light. The pure light and it's Ah, it's an image image that you can do over and over again to help you not only released them but feel complete with the end. I mean, we have We have lots of ways to mourn, but for that for me, that one feels good. Um uh, you know, my husband I said, You're Carly and you're so used to death. You know, it doesn't bother anymore because I don't believe in death. There is no death. And here's why. Here's what science says. Science says that we only see about 5% of what exists together, 95% is invisible. Furthermore, we know the 5% that we do see is mostly empty space. The only reason we see a table is because of the way our eyes interpret the light energy reflecting off the atomic particles of the table. And our brains translate that information and create the image of the table. So most everything is energy rather than matter. And then science also tells us that energy is neither created nor destroyed. It merely changes for therefore, most of what exists. The 95% is invisible, nonphysical, eternal and transformative. So I ask you, if on Archer shoots a bull elk in the heart and it dies, where did all that raging, running bugling bull energy go if science is correct, energetic essence of that elk must live on. So 95% off we cannot see it. It's eternal, and that's what I call spirit. So I tell these people I had a man. He was very upset at one of my talks at his. He couldn't get over his daughter dying and he trying to forget him. Don't forget him. He is right there. He's just a happy memory away. All you have to do is

spk_0:   20:13
think of

spk_1:   20:14
them with love in your heart instead of sorrow. And you connect you know you while walking with you on walks. Or maybe it's just all kinds of light that hits you on a cold day and warm. You are a cool breeze on a hot summer day. I mean, they're not gone there somewhere else. They've transformed from this physical realm. But I you know, I was raised Christian Lutheran, but I really be started to believe in eternal life when I took science.

spk_0:   20:48
That makes sense. I mean, especially when you get into the quantum physics and molecular science and such. I mean, you're right. I mean, you break down. Anything matter or light itself into its simplest form, the atom that we can detect anyway. And it all is the same. Everything is the same, and the deeper we looking

spk_1:   21:07
mostly empty space.

spk_0:   21:09
Right deeper. We look into the Adam, the less we find, you know, So there's nothing there. So obviously everything. It doesn't matter, right? Everything no

spk_1:   21:19
matter to matter about

spk_0:   21:21
right. Everything is ultimately relative and related. And where things get mucked up for us is by virtue of the way we think, or ego or belief systems what we're taught, you know, I'm absolutely, you know, to me, too. I mean, there is no death. There's only transition. You know, I sat at the deathbed of one of my best friends once, and you know, I said, I I don't want you to go He said, Oh, but the ultimate journey and death is only the passing of a breath. That's it, another breath and Nelson or something. And that's that's the other point. I find myself speaking on a lot and writing on a lot these days when I'm speaking about holistic medicine and holistic healing. Too many of us were tied up into the physicality of our science and what we can validate. What we consign to validate when the reality is, is that most of what exists around us in the universe is inexplicable. Buyer science. We can't even explain how our own immune system works completely, much less how the universe works or how an egg is fertilized. Our life has brought forth from a seed, you know, and we have to learn how to accept things that are undeniably true, yet inexplicable to our scientists. And I think animals help bring that. Absolutely.

spk_1:   22:46
And, you know, I studied the history of science for my book, and that's what really made me go. Oh, my goodness, you know the things we used to believe in every five minutes we change our story

spk_0:   22:57
because

spk_1:   22:58
there's I remember sitting on the office, my office floor and I got up off my office floors had all these embryology book around me, and I was studying this theory and I got up and I went to Fort Lewis College. I go to college. I went into my former professor, my former college professor's office, and I said, Dr Summers, I just realized there's no such thing as a scientific fact, and he smiled. And then the slow Southern accent, he said, That's right. There's only the current theory and the prevailing evidence, which is constantly changing. And so if you look at it, it's constantly changing throughout my veterinary career. You know, when I was a veterinary school, we learned okay, we used to give cortical steroids for laminitis. Don't do that anymore because it causes laminitis, and it's like that endlessly, eggs are good, eggs are bad. Nutrition is

spk_0:   23:53
the

spk_1:   23:53
worst, is constantly

spk_0:   23:55
changing

spk_1:   23:56
all my lord on. So how are you supposed to do evidence based medicine when it's so nebulous? Anyway,

spk_0:   24:06
that's my

spk_1:   24:06
rant on that subject.

spk_0:   24:08
It also makes you know the veterinarians job is hard enough because of the compassion, deficit, compassion, recovery problems that you're describing right have to deal with it so often. But when you get in the holistic medicine, do things get harder? I mean, you're looking at the bigger picture. Now you're not able to just sign off on, you know, the predispositions of science anymore. You have to embrace a more natural perspective and accept things that your college teachers might not have even thought of much less believed in. So it does. It does

spk_1:   24:42
lack. Yeah,

spk_0:   24:43
doesn't make it right over.

spk_1:   24:45
Well, it's interesting, because now we're dealing with energy medicine. Okay, it's not physical man, acupuncture and herbs and homey op seeing things like that. We're dealing with energetic medicine, and the energy happened first, and then it becomes physical. So we get these animals that are all stuck up with these physical problems, and and you have to treat them. But often anxiety, aggression, um, and other emotions those air, not physical problems. Those are emotional problems. That's a non physical thing. And what I love about Chinese medicine is each organ has a spirit and lectured on this that the CI Institute last year it was wonderful. Six hours. I lectured on the five

spk_0:   25:27
spirits,

spk_1:   25:29
So there's the sandwiches in the heart, and the hunt is deliver. That's the serial soul that goes back to heaven with the form of the body and the poet's with the lung. And that goes down to the ground, down to the earth, with the corporeal soul and all these interactions of how the soul treats each other when you die, the liver, hunh and the Po long separate. And so you get this animal that's both exhausted and anxious. You know, can't sleep, but you can't move, and it's a lung liver in ballot. So it's, you know, quite fascinating, but we're anyway, we're dealing with the spiritual part of the animal. Now. The energetic acupuncture works on the electromagnetic energy system of the body, which you know you have because you get E k g persons in a coma. They do an electroencephalogram on the brain to measure the bio electric energy, and if there's a nun, they consider them brain dead. So the Chinese call that energy Cheez spelled Q I or or C h I. And so we get to work with that. And so when I touch an animal now look in their heart. I feel their cheese. I feel their their spirit, and it's it's really more fun. I just love it. I love it way more than regular veterinary medicine, but you know, both are important of the dog hit by a car. You got to go get surgery and emergency medicine, but after they're recovering, they're gonna have physical and spiritual problems, and that's where acupuncture is so wonderful.

spk_0:   27:03
A lot of people often wonder when they die if they will be reunited with all the animals in their lives. I wonder the same thing too, you know, knowing that animals do you have a soul knowing that they love us and we love them and we share all these different things. Do you ever wonder, Do you think that maybe when our time comes, we are reunited, maybe into one one place where there aren't any questions? There is no pain. There is no sorrow. Maybe maybe it's momentary. Maybe it's transitional to another life or something. When we do have a sense that everything fits everybody that we've known, every animal we shared time with is there and part of us.

spk_1:   27:41
I think they still are now. But I I had a great have a great story in my book about that. Um, I had a client, Um, she asked me to euthanize her dog, and when I did, she said, Well, I feel better knowing where he's going because I died once. Really? Tell me about about it. Did you see any animals? And she had that she was house sitting for some dogs and horses. And the neighbor called, said the neighbors scores two and with his nose on the blizzard. And so they were white horses, and she wanted to get him off the road. So she opens the gate for them to go through. And when one went through, it kicked back and bleeding to death. She could feel it boot filling up with blood. And she thought, I only have a couple of minutes. Dude, I got to get to the road. So she was crawling to the county road. Unfortunately, a man was driving by to take care of somebody chickens, and he saw her. And she at that time, she saw herself flowing among white horses going toe. Ordell Well, I carrying a sword, okay. And then when this guy stopped in a bronco, of all things, he picked her up. And when he picked her up, she got slammed back into her body. And when she got to the hospital, she was dead again and they'd revive her. And then they'd say things like, Who shot you? Why are you so skinny and all this stuff? And she's like, I want to stay here and she'd die again. I mean, they did electroshock heart massage

spk_0:   29:14
everything finally,

spk_1:   29:15
you know, transfused Or finally I mean, she and she saw everything happening like it was in a mirror. She saw the nurses were so upset and frantic that they couldn't get blood out of her vein. And the doctor came in and said, Take it out of the woman, take it out of the wound. And one did eventually through the trash. She was so upset, right? Everybody was chaos. And so she watched all this like it was in a mirror, and then they got her stabilized and she had to go to surgery. And, uh, where the anesthesiologist, she said his energy was as sweet as it was on the other side that he held her head any held her feet and kept her grounded here. But she was with a council of people who said, You know, you can go back if you want, or you can stay here And she chose to come back. But, um, yes, she saw these white horses and you know, there's that that revelation. Jesus rides a white horse carrying a sword, and it's the same thing in Hinduism. The sixth avatar of Vishnu is, um Col Ki and Col Ki rides a white horse carrying a sword to smite sinners and rescue the righteous. I mean, it's the same. That's one of the things I've learned by studying all these different beliefs is that they're all trying to say the same thing, using different images and different vocabulary based on their environment, what they're used to. And, you know, we get all said about these, you know, the semantics of the beliefs, the details fills in the details. In general, they're talking about love and eternal life, all these beautiful things. So, um, yes, I totally believe. And there's many other read many books on your death experiences than they talk about seeing animals. In fact, even Alexander did you read his book Proof of Heaven?

spk_0:   31:07
No, I have not seen that one. He was

spk_1:   31:09
a you. He's a neurosurgeon, and he got a E. Coli infection on his brain and was brain dead. Now the scientists, I'll tell us that we, uh all these images we see these near death images are brain creates that, but his brain could not. It

spk_0:   31:27
was

spk_1:   31:27
dead.

spk_0:   31:28
He

spk_1:   31:28
had no e g. He was dead. And Deacon says he can convince any scientist of this with data from his doctors. But he did see a dog. So, you know, totally believe that the non physical realm is just as real. And just as president, it's just beyond the veil that our senses block us from experiencing. Some people do see it, right, clairvoyance and such. They see it. Some of it, you know, they see our, you know, people's imaginary friends and that little Children, they're very much less shrouded by this veil that we are. These are adults so that animals and the little Children, they're pretty. They're pretty eager, easy going in and out of this spirit realm. Shamans can go in and out. They travel between both worlds and ah. Then there's the rest of us. What

spk_0:   32:24
about cats? I get the impression cats cats kind of live inside or one paw in, and one pop out of the plane that we live in. It just seems like they're always deep in contemplation or stirring in a spot on the wall or something between between the horizon. I mean, it's just they're interesting. I wonder where there,

spk_1:   32:49
And I've had a number of veterinarians tell me that you know, during euthanasia, if you watch the other, if you let the other animals be present and you watch, sometimes they kind of look off like there he goes, you know, But, um, and there's a cat that was in that old people's home, the geriatric home where Cat would always sort of hang out in the room of the person that was going to die very soon. And I think they like that energy of the other. You know that when the veil starts to fall and they're kind of hang and with that blissful energy like you said, where there's no shame. And that's what the woman said, he got kicked by the horse. She said it was bliss, you know, being dead. There's no shame. Blame, pain, guilt, fear. All of that is gone. And so she is like, you know, it's bliss being dead coming back. That was hard. But

spk_0:   33:48
well,

spk_1:   33:49
you know, I think there is that place and but, you know, we're here to do something. We signed up. This is what the clairvoyance and and such Tell me you're you begged to come here. You wanted to come here. You wanted to come here and be a veterinary. And you want to do this and you begged for and you got it. Not everybody gets to and so be grateful. Do good work. Be happy. It will be of good cheer and spread it and it's hard. Oh my gosh. You know, I I suffer times too. But now I have tools after studying all these religious beliefs, you know, my meditation practice chanting, mantra, Sze praying. I mean, all of these things are so therapeutic and so helpful for calming the mind. The thoughts torture us, our thoughts tortures. It's a tool, this brain, and it runs us. And the nice thing about these spiritual teachings is it teaches you how to get a little bit of control over that tool. And that has helped me so much.

spk_0:   34:56
Just absolutely amazing stuff. The name is Doctor Carlene standing. The book is called The Spiritual Nature of Animals, a country that explores the wisdom, compassion and souls of animals. And I'm assuming that's available. I know it's available through Amazon and online booksellers. Probably sort of old major, your favorite bookstore I highly recommend this book. It'll open up. Your mind will answer a lot of questions but also really help you find comfort. And believe me, folks, what you already know about your relationship with your animals. It's just absolutely amazing. Carlene, I hope you'll come back onto your vital pet really soon. This is wonderful. I really look forward to working with you some more.

spk_1:   35:41
Any time. I love working with you, Greg. And thanks for your book. I still use it all the time of the patch. It's a beautiful thing.

spk_0:   35:47
Thank you very much. You take care of yourself and keep loving those animals.

spk_1:   35:52
We'll do you too.

spk_0:   35:54
Thank you. Great. Thank you for joining us. Be sure to stay tuned into your favorite podcast browser for the next episode of your vital pet, where we illuminate an explorer. That special, powerful relationship between people and companion animals and where you will learn new ways to bring health happiness in the long life to your pet. I'm Greg. Children talk with you soon