Healing Through Faith: A Christian Parent's Story of Loss and Resilience w/ Justin & Stefanie Boyce

When Justin and Stefanie Boyce faced the unfathomable loss of their children, Jayden and Brooklyn, to a rare genetic disorder, the fabric of their lives was irrevocably torn. Yet, out of the depths of their sorrow, they emerged with a story that is as inspiring as it is heart-wrenching. This episode is a tribute to the strength it takes to not only carry on but to transform grief into a force for healing, as the Boyces have done through their work at the Oak Center Retreat in Southern California.

As we sit down with Justin and Stefanie, they open up about the overwhelming support they received from their community during the darkest times. Their narrative extends a delicate invitation to contemplate the unexpected kindness of friends, family, and even strangers, and how these acts of compassion can illuminate the path through adversity. Their experience with community kindness underscores a central truth: no one should have to navigate the treacherous waters of grief alone, and it is the connections we forge that often buoy us through the storm.

The conversation naturally flows into the heart of resilience, exploring how shared suffering can lead to profound bonds and a shared sense of purpose. Justin and Stefanie's candid reflections on their growth in the aftermath of tragedy, coupled with their commitment to helping others find solace, serve as a beacon for anyone grappling with their own losses. Their story, punctuated by their move to California and the founding of The Oaks Retreats, serves as an intimate guide through the complexities of mourning, faith, and ultimately, finding a way forward in a world that has been forever changed.

The Oaks - A Southern California Retreat Center
Connect with Stefanie: stefanieboyce.com

Transcript

Mentor Mama: 0:07

Welcome back to the Coffee and Bible Time podcast. For those that may be listening for the first time, our podcast is an offshoot from our main platform, Youtube. Our channel is called Coffee and Bible Time, where our goal is to help people delight in God's Word and thrive in Christian living. We also have a website and storefront with Bible studies, prayer journals, courses and more. Welcome back to the Coffee and Bible Time podcast. I'm Mentor M ama, and today's episode is a testament to the power of resilience, God's love and the human spirit In the depths of grief. Navigating the loss of loved ones as a Christian can really seem insurmountable and leaves us with longing to search for help through others who have experienced similar loss and can help guide us through and point us to the path of healing. Well, today we are honored to welcome Justin and Stephanie Boyce, who have been gracious enough to share and join with us and share their deeply personal experience of losing two children, Jayden and Brooklyn, to a rare genetic disorder. And in the wake of those tragedies, we see how God was at work. Justin and Stephanie experienced a desire to connect to others who were well acquainted with their kind of suffering and could provide an understanding of how they weathered the storm and emerged with a unique and healthy perspective on such a profound loss. Justin and Stephanie have encouraging words to share with us that grief is significant but not the defining hold, and they're going to share how their experience can give you or someone that you love a framework to take small steps on your own journey of healing. We will also hear about their experience today, as it has led up and contributed to their work at the Oak Center in retreat in Southern California.

Mentor Mama: 2:27

I'm going to start with Justin. So he is the dedicated general manager of the Oak Center. He brings a wealth of hospitality experience to the Oaks and, with a passion for curating transformative guest experiences, he leads a committed team in creating a sanctuary where relaxation and personal growth seamlessly converge. Justin's journey into the world of wellness began with a deep curiosity about the intersection of mental and physical health. Justin's approach is characterized by a deep commitment to helping individuals harness their inner strength, optimize their health and elevate their performance.

Mentor Mama: 3:13

Stephanie Boyce is the Oaks Retreat Director, creator of the Oaks Retreat Signature Framework, and founder and therapeutic coach at Intersanctuary Home. She received her degree in psychology and community health and holds certifications as an experiential therapist, spiritual director, yoga instructor, mind body coach and wellness counselor. She has received additional training in integrative somatic parts work and psychodrama modalities and has prior experience working with domestic violence, pediatric hospice and church ministry. She also enjoys her collaborative relationship, serving on the team as a therapeutic coach at Radical Wellness Company in San Clemente, california. Stephanie hosts workshops, retreats, yoga instruction and therapeutic coaching for individuals and groups, Bunding her creative passions, life experience and training. She loves holding space for others to get curious, dig deep and live well. Please welcome Justin and Stephanie.

Justin Boyce: 4:28

Thank you so much.

Mentor Mama: 4:31

I'm just so honored that you guys would join us. I want to give our listeners just a tiny glimpse into the kind of behind the scenes. I had the privilege of meeting Justin one day at the gym and your aunt, I guess, was the one who said Ellen, I know someone that you need to talk to and have on the podcast and she shared a little bit of your story and I just knew it was meant to be so. Having you guys here, I really appreciate it. Why don't we just start out with you sharing a little bit about your journey and experience and navigating the loss that you experience.

Justin Boyce: 5:18

Yeah, sure I can start First off, thanks for having us on. It's an honor to be a part of what you're doing here, so thank you. Yeah, our journey began back in 2002. Stephanie and I were both in college at Eastern Illinois University. We met and started dating and got married in 2004. Had our first child, Jayden, in 2006. Built our own home.

Justin Boyce: 5:51

Stephanie worked for the church, I worked for our family business and life was really good. We kind of had everything that we were looking for. Like the American dream was, we're kind of checking off all the boxes. And then we had our daughter three years after our son, and it was like we have our son, we have our daughter, we have our house, we have our white picket fence. Everything was great. I couldn't ask for anything more.

Justin Boyce: 6:23

And then in 2009, our world kind of crashed. We noticed some delays in our son's cognitive abilities. He wasn't keeping up with his peers as far as development goes. So we just did some random tests with the doctor to see if everything was okay. At first it seemed like he would catch up with everybody else and not to be. We shouldn't be too concerned. And then our pediatrician said that we should probably go see a specialist just to see if there's anything related to why he's not meeting some of the milestones that he should as a three-year-old. And we threw a series of tests.

Justin Boyce: 7:13

Our son was diagnosed with a rare genetic disorder called San Filippo syndrome, and the diagnosis was not good. Basically, he would develop normally for a few years and then he would kind of plateau and then he would regress. Life expectancy for children with this disorder is about 10 to 20 years. And then they also said we should probably also have your three-month-old daughter tested for the disease as well, and after about three weeks of waiting for results for her test, she also was tested for the disorder, and so our perfect American dream had been shattered. We learned within three weeks of being diagnosed with our son's disorder that our daughter would also have the same fate as our son. So we would have to learn how to navigate the world of special needs and then the world of knowing that your children would die and that you would have to plan a funeral for children, which is the a nightmare for any mother or father.

Justin Boyce: 8:54

And so we had to learn how to navigate life in this completely new world. And then the sense of urgency, also, like you have to navigate special needs. Maybe I should first also explain a little bit about the disorder too, just to help your listeners understand a little bit more. So they basically are born without an enzyme that breaks down a sugar called heparin sulfate and that, without that enzyme, the sugar builds around the central nervous system and brain and it delays all the cognitive abilities. So the brain starts to misfire, so you can only develop so far, and then all the development regresses, and then you lose your ability to walk, you lose your ability to talk, sleep becomes an issue. You lose your ability to even eat.

Justin Boyce: 9:56

The children had to be put on G tubes so that we could feed them intravenously, and then it's just a slow progression until the body just completely shuts down. And so you watch every milestone your child makes and then, unfortunately, also watch them lose that milestone as well. So completely heartbreaking to watch those things unfold with your children. So we asked we had to learn how to navigate a completely new life, one that was not invited but yet was the story we were given, and we wanted to learn how to thrive in that story, instead of just feeling like victims of our own story, wanted to like actually live a real, well-meaning life while they were alive and, obviously, after their deaths as well. Stef, would you like to add anything to that?

Stefanie Boyce: 11:09

Mm-hmm, I think you're doing great, yeah, yeah, it's certainly not what you ever wanna hear about people that you love.

Stefanie Boyce: 11:23

And you're right, Justin. There was a moment for me specifically, when Brooklyn received her diagnosis and we gathered the family together and everyone was crying and Jayden, at three years old, thought it was a party and he was running around and he was excited to be there and be alive. And Brooklyn was in her car seat just smiling, and it was in that moment I realized like I'm not going to let Sam Filippo destroy us, which is the disorder name, that we were gonna thrive, that we were gonna live beautiful lives for as long as we had them and they would lead the way, and I think that set my trajectory differently. I never really asked why. I just believed that, why not? Suffering is just part of this world and, although I didn't want it, I wouldn't be defined by it and I think for me, I thought I could be sad when they pass, but for right now, we're gonna go make memories and we're gonna take pictures and we're gonna do our best to make their lives amazing, and in fact, they made our lives amazing.

Stefanie Boyce: 12:40

And there were so many things that we've learned along the way. There's so many blessings that they've given us and I know we'll get into this a little bit more, but I just I believe love continues. So if we really have faith that this isn't the end, and so we not only appreciated every moment we got with them, but we continue to move forward with them, and that has been a hard fought journey, and perspective is one of those things you have to fight for every day, and many days and many moments I didn't have it. I got lost in the longing. But I think, looking back now, we're five, six years away from their passings and we've learned so much and we can see so differently and our story has been the thing that has allowed us to enter into other people's suffering in a very unique way and it's so humbling and honoring to walk alongside other people in their suffering.

Mentor Mama: 13:50

And truly, when you have gone through that experience if I was in coming into that, there probably would be no one that I would rather talk to would be to talk to someone like you who had done that.

Mentor Mama: 14:08

You know. One thing I want to share with you is that. So Justin and Stephanie used to live in the town that I live in and we went to two different churches, but both kind of well known in our community and honestly, I didn't know you then, but I can remember someone who went to the church you did telling me about your story and how amazing of a family that you were and how it you did navigate this and what I. What I think is so interesting is I didn't put that connection together until after being at the gym I was like, oh my goodness, that's the same story. So I think that you've done it so beautifully well, but imagine in the community that people are able to see that and it gives them hope if they're gonna have to go through other hard circumstances. Tell us a little bit about how you relied on your faith, how it helped you and evolve through the experience, and even that your local church, how they helped you.

Justin Boyce: 15:28

Yeah, I can go first. So there's like two parts to that for me. When our children were diagnosed, that was actually the the rougher season for me than actually after they died, I became really depressed, didn't even want to connect with my children anymore because I felt like the closer I got to them, the harder it would be to say goodbye to them. So I actually pushed them away for about a solid year and it took some really important people in my life to redirect my thinking because I didn't like the person that I was. I knew that and I wanted to view things differently. But I was incapable of doing it on my own and so fast forward to after their deaths, I knew that I didn't want to revert back to how I initially reacted to their diagnosis. I wanted there, I wanted to live my life in a much better way after their deaths. So I spent the next, their whole, their whole lives about.

Justin Boyce: 17:54

You know, our daughter died at 9, our son died at 11, so for from diagnosis to death, about 10 years or so, I worked on anchoring myself to prepare for their deaths, and a lot of that was through our community, the people that did life with us, and we had a community, boy!. We had a wonderful community. We had people that just wrapped their arms around us and supported us, and it was tremendous. We couldn't have done it without friends and family, neighbors, our church community I could give you a list of a thousand people people that came out of the woodwork that we never thought would have stepped up, and then the people that actually we thought we're gonna step up didn't. It was very weird, but it was all the right people at all the right times and God completely orchestrated just a beautiful support system for us. So I knew that I wanted to be a better version of me after their deaths and so I did. I I heard this podcast just recently. This is this has made a lot of sense to me.

Justin Boyce: 19:13

So I'm just gonna kind of share this idea of gift shop Christianity, where you go to a national park and you could stay in the gift shop the entire time and just see the postcards and the pictures of all the beautiful hikes and the views. You could live in the gift shop and never actually go out into the park and experience the real beauty, nature that God had created. And so I wanted to do that. I didn't want to live in the gift shop anymore, and I really wanted to experience what God had in store for us. And hes the key. This story was given to us by him, and so I wanted to completely own it and and learn from these two beautiful little children that he had given me, and so I decided to start taking notes on two kids that could hardly put a couple words together to form a sentence, and they became the greatest teachers that I will ever have known, and so I did.

Justin Boyce: 20:23

I anchored myself in in in the Bible and reading and with trusted voices in my life and and my and my kids and watching my wife raise our children. So I had all these these beautiful teachers that were teaching me how to live like a well-meaning, well balanced life, and so it was all of that for me. It wasn't just one specific thing, but probably the biggest one for me was was my children, and watching them live a really, really good life was probably, and will be probably, the biggest impact on my life ever. They I see them now as like this guiding compass in my life. When things, when things get off track for me, they recalibrate me back to where I know I should get when the world starts to really pull at me and tug me in a direction that I probably shouldn't head in my kids, redirect me back and kind of put me back to true north.

Mentor Mama: 21:39

So yeah, Stefanie, how about you with your faith experience through this?

Stefanie Boyce: 21:54

also want to just echo that our community and the people that showed up meant so much to us. I like to say that our floors sagged because there are so many people that entered in when they could have looked away and many of those were strangers and many of those were people that said we, we don't know what, what to do. I mean there's no treatment, no cure. How do we show up? And maybe they're even uncomfortable in the world of special needs and and yet they showed up anyway.

Stefanie Boyce: 22:30

And when I think about you know, a lot of times in church we hear be the hands and feet of Jesus and I think about all of the hands and feet that served our family well and continue to. That's the thing there are people that are still loving us. There was one random anonymous group of women I was able to narrow it down to. I think it's a group of women that sent us nameless gift cards for over a decade just to restaurants and for gifts and things for the kids, and they still remain nameless and even after the kids passed for years, they sent us things just saying we see you and we know you and we're with you and in moments of helplessness. I think that is one of the greatest ways that Jesus became flesh to us, and so I saw my faith expand by watching the church be the church, and that was that was really, really important to us, and we'll be forever thankful by for that yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Mentor Mama: 23:51

Tell us about sort of as you went through this period of them passing and then you navigating this journey, but then, at the same time, you're now starting to help other people who are going through that. How did that work? Or like, was there it? Was it just a natural process? Because it feels like so much of what you're doing now is this taking what you experienced and helping others.

Stefanie Boyce: 24:41

Yeah, I think there were a few people right in the beginning, when we were diagnosed, that showed us the way I think you mentioned this earlier, Ellen of just when you're in that situation, the first thing you do is go is there anyone else navigating this? And I had two women in my life that, by the grace of God, I was connected to through the national society, who also had children with San Filippo and shared a similar faith, believe it or not, which is not common to just make those two people the first two people you reach out and meet, and they were just a few steps ahead and so they left breadcrumbs and they were the people that I called with questions, and so it was just this natural progression of I had a hand reaching forward as they were leading me and I had a hand reaching back helping new families come into this world, or even just general suffering. I mean, we have so many stories of people that had different versions of their own suffering that reached out to us, specifically on some kids in high school ministry that we served in, and you know I think about when you are in a place of pain, you're looking to not be alone and so just opening eyes and being able to say, hey, I see you and you see me and we can be in this together, even though our stories are different, I think was the biggest thing for us. So it was just natural to open our hands. And Justin actually shares this beautiful story I don't know if you want to tell it, but of being in India and of seeing other people in in this leprosy colony and how they served one another and how they shared in community with one another and how that shaped kind of his perspective when it came to our kids, that we were not the only ones.

Stefanie Boyce: 26:46

And it's been a joy like since the kids have passed, we actually have met another family and they have a daughter who had San Felipe. She's recently passed and we had the high, high honor of knowing her and walking her home, and so you know, we wouldn't have ever been in that position had we not done it ourselves. So there's just a really beautiful portal that opens a thin space. That opens with death and, very similarly, with life. So if you've ever been around a baby being born, we're time just kind of stops and it feels like you're in a very thin place. The same is true of death. We just us Westerners have sanitized ourselves from that space because it's so scary and it hurts so bad. But if you're willing to lean in, you're willing to step in, beautiful things can be there too.

Justin Boyce: 27:55

It doesn't.

Stefanie Boyce: 27:55

it doesn't take away the ugliness of death, I think. I think the Bible got it right. It is. It is awful, absolutely awful, and Jesus is present even there.

Mentor Mama: 28:08

Yeah, yeah, the valley of the shadow of death will fear no evil.

Stefanie Boyce: 28:18

And I probably would say I still felt, I still feared it and I also I knew. You know, I think that's the thing, that our experience is such a human experience, like we were not any different than anybody else. So I'm really happy our community thought we were navigating it well, but there are many days we didn't. We're just human beings. But I think there was just this, this willingness to lean in to moments that were difficult, and I think it was because of that, because of just this trust of like either God is who he says he is or he isn't.

Stefanie Boyce: 29:02

I mean, that was very clear to me when all of this happened was like I couldn't be really wishy washy on anything, and so for me it was like OK, lord, I know that you don't like suffering just as much as me, and yet there is an end to the story. So if I'm just looking at what's right in front of me, my human experience is saying absolutely stop, this is awful. Like who wants their kids to suffer, who wants to feel this pain. And it was those very things that then shifted my faith, because I had to then say, ok, if what I see is not the whole truth, then I must start putting my place, my trust, in things that are unseen. And so, lord, help me trust the things that are unseen, help me trust that there's something bigger happening, help me trust the mystery that I will never understand why, like God's, math is not the same as ours. So the math of, oh, my kids get to suffer so we can learn some lessons or experience blessing Like.

Stefanie Boyce: 30:16

I'm not into that kind of math. For me, suffering is absolutely, 100% awful. It's why all of creation is groaning. This is not how it should be, and yet right. And yet there's something else happening here that we just can't see. And so, lord, I trust you in the unseen. And it doesn't take away my suffering, it doesn't take away my pain, it doesn't heal my children, and yet I still place my faith in the goodness of what I can't see. Yet.

Mentor Mama: 30:57

That's beautiful and that's a gift from God that you're willingness to, be willing to allow him to carry you through that time.

Stefanie Boyce: 31:11

It was that moment of Peter's like where else would I go? You have the only thing that I feel like is accessible to me, which is eternal life. I'm not getting healing. There's no cure, there's no like where else would I go? And I get that. For some people, they see it differently. And I understand that piece, but for me it was like I have no other option and this is the one that makes the most sense to me even though I don't understand it completely and I know for me as well.

Justin Boyce: 31:47

Like I kept asking myself the wrong question. I kept saying why me, why me, why me? And that question was getting me nowhere except down a deeper, darker tunnel that I shouldn't be going. And I had to reframe that question and just with one extra word, like why not me? Was the reframing for me. When I was able to like reframe it in that way, it helped my perspective shift.

Justin Boyce: 32:27

So I wasn't so much thinking about my own life and my own dreams and expectations that I had A really big question for me, because I was so completely broken from how I reacted to my children's diagnosis and I felt like I was like a fake Christian.

Justin Boyce: 32:54

I didn't even feel like I was a Christian because just really my theology was really bad and I couldn't understand how a good person like me, who volunteered and did all the right things at church and did youth ministry, and how God could give me something like this and it wrecked me. And so reframing that question was just a huge burden lifted off of me, one that I wasn't able to carry. I don't think God ever expected me to carry it either, but for some reason I felt like it was my responsibility to carry it, and it weighed me down to where I was incapable of carrying it any longer. So why not me was this huge shift, that it was a process, but it completely changed the trajectory of my life and how I was going to live my life well after the diagnosis and then after the deaths of our two children.

Mentor Mama: 34:14

Yeah, you can see how that was a pivotal time for you. Tell us then your shift from that time in your life to where you guys are now and how that all came about.

Justin Boyce: 34:33

I'll start with this one, because this one I was the slow one to get on board on this ship, so it was really weird. Our children died within about eight months of each other. So you have all these resources, adaptive equipment, special needs, support systems Our whole week was centered around all this stuff. And you have all this equipment in your house and all of a sudden, as soon as they die, all of that gets taken out Literally the next day. Every service, every piece of equipment that you were renting gets taken out of the house. All the companies come and take everything, and so everything that you had been so used to for the last 10 years is completely gone.

Justin Boyce: 35:29

And so I struggled with my identity. Am I not a special needs father anymore? Because all my friends and people that I hung out with and did life with were in that community. And I struggled like I don't know what is next for my life. So I sat for a year going like what, where am I supposed to go? What am I supposed to do? I'm just walking around, aimlessly confused and knowing that there's something different for me, but not quite sure. And it was just a simple phone call that Stefanie had taken from a dear friend of ours that really answered a lot of the questions and prayers that I had, and I think Stef could probably tell this story a little bit better than I can.

Stefanie Boyce: 36:32

Yeah, after the kids passed our house that had the floors that sagged, felt very empty. It echoed A lot of our community was just as exhausted as we were, and so it got pretty quiet around our house and you'd walk by their bedrooms and it kind of felt like tombs, like they were just empty rooms and our community had showed up so much that they had built our house for us and so we were just in this place of like we don't really want to get rid of our house because it meant so much, but like we don't know what's next. And for some of your listeners they might know our friend Bob Goff. He wrote the book Love Does and Everybody Always, and he's just an amazing human being. We've been friends with him for years and he called and he said I bought a camp. And we said which is not uncommon, Bob calls pretty frequently with big surprises like that. So we were like awesome Bob, like congratulations on your camp. He goes what do you think about moving to California and helping us start this thing? And we were like when? And he's like I don't know, next month we got the blessing of our friends and family and Justin worked for the family business and we lived on a family road, so it was quite a big shift for us and our family was like absolutely go, and we had no idea what we were doing, which is kind of what an adventure with Bob feels like.

Stefanie Boyce: 38:10

And we moved to Southern California we are on 240 acres and it was an old young life camp that we were renovating into an adult retreat center, and it was six weeks before the pandemic. And so we moved out here and started this grand adventure with Bob and his good buddy, Miles Adcox, over at Onsite Workshops, and we just started building something. And it was weird because we didn't know after we moved out here if we had jobs because of the pandemic, like who wants to gather in a pandemic. And so we started really small, because the truth is people were longing for connection and so, as long as the world said we could be open and functioning, we tried our best to be and we just started gathering people and listening and holding space and asking good questions, and that's how the Oaks Retreats were born. And so now we've been at it for three, we're going on to our fourth year and once a month we hold retreats in space for people to get what they need and give what they got. And it's this beautiful community of curious folks who just need rest and need to kind of work through some good deep questions Questions of transition, question of burnout, question of how am I doing at this thing called life, and so it's been really, really fun. And we do other things out here. We hold like corporate rentals and church rentals, and then Bob does some of his programming and on-sites out here doing deep therapeutic work. So it's a beautiful space to be.

Stefanie Boyce: 39:54

What we didn't mention on this is that we have another daughter and she was born three years after Brooklyn and so we navigated this whole journey with her. She was five and six when her siblings passed and she's out here with us. Her name is Ellie and she's in sixth grade and she is neurotypical. So we've had the journey of parenting typical and terminal living in our house and it's been quite the journey. You know, I always say with San Filippo, like we couldn't separate the terribleness of San Filippo out of the beauty of who our kids were. It was one in the same, like all the beauty and all of the pain were contained in one little body.

Stefanie Boyce: 40:42

And so you know, you and I hear Justin talk about our kids. Like I'm, I wish there were more and more spaces for men, especially husbands, to find men like Justin to talk to and to find support in, because he's been on a journey that I'm so proud of him for going on. I think a lot of men struggle with like how do I do this? How do I serve and protect my family? How do I go through hard times when I can't protect them? I mean, I think that was the biggest thing for him, because I don't know how to protect my family and then so for him to be able to navigate this and share his feelings and work through his faith and he's just a man of integrity and he's a church kid, so born and raised in the church, so it's been fun to watch his faith develop in such a way that has this depth and complexity to it.

Stefanie Boyce: 41:44

So, I'm really proud of him. I just want that for so many more men. Yeah, absolutely.

Mentor Mama: 41:52

Well, I know we're kind of running low on time here and there's so many more things that we could talk about. Your journey's been incredible. Where you're at now, why don't you just let our listeners know, like, where they can find you and maybe a little bit more about your center?

Stefanie Boyce: 42:14

Yeah, yeah. So if you're interested in any of our retreats, you can go to oakscenter. com and you can find our lineup there. Justin also does the fitness stuff out here and does the cold plunge. We do contrast therapy, so you're interested in that.

Stefanie Boyce: 42:32

Justin and I are always at Oaks Retreats and if you're interested in me personally and working with me in a coaching capacity, you can find me at Stefanieboyce. com it's just Stefanie with an F, and I'm sure if any of our listeners are in a similar position, Justin and I would honestly take a phone call and just talk with your family, especially the dads out there, because it's hard and we know again, suffering for everybody looks different and this is like a sound bite of the last 16 years of our journey, and so I'm always reluctant on a podcast to be like, you know, I never thought about it, I never want it to sound like God gives you never more than you can handle or any sort of like sound bite. That's cheesy because it's been a hard bought, deep journey that still doesn't have some answers, and so I just respect where everybody is on their own journey and just to know that God is big enough to handle the depth and the questions and the mystery of your own human experience has been like the biggest freedom for me.

Stefanie Boyce: 43:43

So thank you so much, Ellen, for giving us the opportunity and for all the listeners to just share a story. I know it's not an easy story to hear.

Mentor Mama: 43:53

But it definitely gives people hope, no matter what trial that they're going through. I mean, I think you spoke of so many things, just your authenticity and being real, that any tragedy that you're going through is hard and we all do respond to it differently. And, Justin, I do really applaud you for saying it the way it was, because I think a lot of people may be so guilty about having similar feelings when they've gone through their own circumstances, and you just you know that probably is a huge weight lifted off of some people. Well, thank you for being so open. Well, we will definitely have all of their links in our show notes. I want to make sure, for those of you who are listening, that you definitely check it out. And you guys have a great newsletter. I've been subscribing it to for a while and every time I get it I'm just kind of like oh, it sounds so wonderful, so maybe one day.

Mentor Mama: 45:08

It sounds like a beautiful healing place to be.

Justin Boyce: 45:13

And I teach fitness, which is like a but it's like a watered down version of CrossFit, and, like Stefanie mentioned earlier, the contrast therapy, getting in the cold and then going into a hot sauna and going back and forth. I actually got your coach Tanner into it. So he just recently purchased a cold plunge tank and a little one person sauna, so he's got that set up in his in his basement. Yeah, so like this, this idea of like stress regulation has been like kind of important for me, just living our life and having that stress for so many years, learning how to like manage stress. So fitness and contrast therapy is kind of new, is a new one for me, but like I really have gotten into learning how to regulate stress in a healthy, in a healthy manner.

Justin Boyce: 46:16

So it's been. It's been a very fun journey for me. So you can do all that out of the Oaks and I will lead you through all of it. So, Ellen, whenever you're ready, you know come on out.

Mentor Mama: 46:27

Excellent, that sounds great. That reminds me of being in Germany. I went to one of those. It was incredible Like, yeah, the cold and the saunas and like whole places where there's like five different waters and five different kinds of saunas. It was amazing. So, wow, that's super cool, we need those here in the US.

Justin Boyce: 46:48

Yeah, it's been around Europe for a long, for a long time, and it's just now slowly catching on here.

Mentor Mama: 46:54

So, yeah, yeah, that's awesome. All right, Justin, Stefanie, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. We appreciate you so much and for our listeners. Be sure and check out all the links in the show notes and have a blessed day.