A Joyful Perspective: Finding Meaning and Laughter in Life's Messy Moments w/ Cynthia Yanof

Ever found yourself knee-deep in the chaos of everyday life, juggling parenting, work, and what seems like a million little mess-ups? You're not alone! Join me and the hilariously insightful Cynthia Yanof, author of "Life is Messy, God is Good: Sanity for the Chaos of Everyday Life," as we navigate the joyous battlefield of life with a healthy dose of humor. Get ready to laugh at our blunders, nod in agreement with our parenting foibles, and get a fresh perspective on how embracing the mess can draw us closer to an authentic Christian experience.

This episode isn’t just about chuckles though; it's also an invitation to ponder the footprints we leave in the lives of others. Through personal reflections and the heartfelt story of a friend’s anointing, we unpack how small acts of intentionality can ripple into waves of influence. Discover how answering that 'God-sized' call, like opening your heart to foster care, can reshape not just your world, but the world of those around you. It's a powerful reminder that our influence isn't measured by our audience's size but by the depth of our impact.

And let's get real about the high-wire act of parenting, shall we? We strip away the glossy filters of social media success and have a heart-to-heart on recognizing the divine beauty in our children's quirks and challenges. This conversation goes beyond the surface, as we embrace vulnerability and build a stronger community within our churches and personal lives. There's strength in showing up as we are – imperfect, but together. So tune in, grab a coffee, and join us for a conversation that promises to uplift, inspire, and perhaps even laugh.

Book: Life Is Messy, God Is Good
Bible: NIV Life Application
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Favorite App/Website: Dwell App

Transcript

Ellen Krause: 0:07

Welcome back to the Coffee and Bible Time podcast. For those that may be listening for the first time, our podcast is an offshoot from our main platform, youtube. Our channel is called Coffee and Bible Time, where our goal is to help people delight in God's Word and thrive in Christian living. We also have a website and storefront with Bible studies, prayer journals, courses and more. Welcome back to the Coffee and Bible Time podcast.

Ellen Krause: 0:37

I am Ellen Krause, and today I hope you are up for a laugh while we learn how to navigate the ups and downs of life through the lens of humor. You know, in our daily lives it's easy to feel stuck, facing challenges that seem mundane or overwhelming, and some days it may be difficult to find meaning in everyday challenges that we face. Well, our guest today is Cynthia Yanof, author of the newly released book Life is Messy, G od is Good: Sanity for the Chaos of Everyday Life, invites us to reframe our challenges to see God's bigger plan at work in the big and small, the funny and the ridiculous. So when we let go of societal expectations, we actually become free to embrace who God created us to be. And without having this perspective, we risk missing out on the laughter, the joy and the deeper meaning of life. Cynthia reminds us that God's greater mission brings significance to even the messiest aspects of our lives. When we surrender our struggles to Jesus, every day becomes an opportunity for meaning and transformation.

Ellen Krause: 1:59

Cynthia is a wife, mother, podcaster, blogger and everyday girl who is ridiculously committed to not taking herself too seriously. She currently hosts the popular mesmerized podcast. Many Christians are familiar with her work for ChristianParentingorg as well as her time as the creator and host of the ministry's Pardon the Mess podcast. Cynthia worked as an attorney before pursuing a career encouraging and equipping women in their God-given callings. She loves speaking, writing, foster care and hanging out in Dallas with her husband, mike, and three kids. Please welcome, cynthia. Hello, hello, ellen, thanks for having me. Oh my goodness, I'm so excited to talk to you. As I was reading through your book, I was so refreshed by your writing style that incorporates humor that literally made me laugh out loud. Yet, oh good. At the same time, you are asking readers to sort of dig deep and tackle their life's struggles. So why are you so passionate about seeing life through the lens of humor?

Cynthia Yanof: 3:20

I think probably because if we don't laugh we have to cry, right, the adage is true. Like there's just so much in life that's hard, that goes off script, and especially if you are parenting and I know with my kids like it was supposed to look a certain way I was like the perfect parent till I had kids. And then I'm like, oh well, here it goes right. And so my mom told me when my kids were little I remember her saying if you're going to laugh about it in a year, find a way to laugh about it today. Yes, do I still discipline my kids and do the things we need to do? Yes, we're adults. But if we're going to laugh about it later, why not find a way to laugh about it now?

Cynthia Yanof: 3:54

And that was my hope and in the book, life is Mostly God is Good. I want us to laugh, I want us to know that God is in the humor of it. He's in it when it gets off script. Sometimes it's hard and even in the heart. If we can find a way to kind of just pursue the laughter and the silly and the fun, it just makes life so much more enjoyable. So yeah, I tend to always. I tend to always try to err on the side of let's just, let's just laugh about it now, if we can.

Ellen Krause: 4:20

Was your mom funny too.

Cynthia Yanof: 4:23

Yeah, by parents. You know, my parents are both funny, my dad's. I'm closer to my dad, I'm closer in terms of personality to my dad and he's super funny. But, yes, my parents just didn't take themselves seriously and I think that's something that was passed down and hopefully we're passing down to our kids, like we can laugh at ourselves, like we don't have to take ourselves so seriously, and and so I'm grateful for that, that they were able to hand that, along with a lot of other things, down to us Absolutely, you know, and we are made in God's image.

Ellen Krause: 4:51

So I I love in fact, you know, recognize thing that God has a sense of humor, and in watching the chosen I know it's been kind of fun to see that Jesus was a real person and could laugh too. Absolutely. Well, in your book you suggest that God is in the middle of all of the messy places in our lives. So that could be any number of things. How can we be sure that those messes matter?

Cynthia Yanof: 5:26

Yeah, I think, I think we figure out pretty quickly in life that the messes have to matter, because most of what we're walking has gotten messy Like I think at some point we realize we wake up more like gosh man, like nothing is really going how I thought it was going to go. And so if, if, if what I believe and what I've been taught you know, if you were fortunate to grow up in church, or even if not but the things I believe about faith, if they are true, then it's got to apply all the time, not to just when my life is cleaned up. It's working the way it's supposed to. And so sometimes I like to say if, if our theology doesn't line up with our reality, then it's really not any theology at all, it's just kind of some good advice. But what we want is a theology, a faith, that lines up with the reality of every day and that's messy and hard and all those things.

Cynthia Yanof: 6:10

And so where does God show up? My hope is that we realize like God will show up. And where is it? And how does it look when we have a kid that we're trying to teach how to drive when they're 16, or when we've got a kid with a learning difference, or our kids are making bad choices, our marriage gets hard, the job is a dead end, like where is God in that and and and? If we can figure that out, if we start really pursuing him and searching for him, in those moments, man, is our faith redefined. And so that's why I like to lean into it. I, I, my whole, my whole nature is to shut out the messy to make it look better, to dust it under the rug. But that's that just doesn't work. That's not, that's not real life, that's not living. And so, yeah, let's lean into the mass and figure it out and and help our faith line up with it.

Ellen Krause: 6:55

You know, one of the things that you said sort of related to this topic. Just that in whatever are in place of influence is right, whether it's your home or work, or you said the PTA board, whatever it could be, that that's where God has called us to. Can you just expand on that just a little bit more?

Cynthia Yanof: 7:20

Sure, sure, you know, I started thinking about from the beginning of time, like from Adam and Eve until the second coming new heaven, new earth, and all of that point in time anywhere in that the Lord could have plopped us on earth right, he could have picked any time. And so you have to stop and think a minute, like it isn't my chance that you are here right now, at this time in the community, you're in with the family, you're in with the people around you, the church, the work environment, like that is very intentional. And so, if that's the case, we've got to believe that God has a plan for us. And so that's my hope is that we really take a step back sometimes and think about that and say, okay, it's easy to get caught up and see what other people are doing, or they have bigger influences, or, you know, in today's culture I mean to do something significant, oftentimes, we think means you have to have a platform. I mean Jesus had 12, you guys, and so if Jesus had 12 people that were going doing ministry with him, then let's find our highest place of influence, wherever that is.

Cynthia Yanof: 8:15

For some of us, that may be millions listening on a podcast or whatever's going on. For most of us it is not that it is the PTA board or at our office or really important in our home, and so let's do it well in that place. Let's acknowledge it. This is our time, this is where the God is. Our God has intentionally put us and let's live that to the highest mark that we know how to do.

Ellen Krause: 8:38

Yeah yeah, absolutely. I highlighted one of your quotes that kind of summed up this. I thought it was so great when we're talking about you know, why is it important to to be an influence wherever God has placed us. And you said because nothing we strive to accomplish is significant If it's not from God. Nothing we strive to accomplish will bear success without God's hand, and nothing we strive to excel in will last beyond us if God has not anointed it in our lives.

Cynthia Yanof: 9:12

Yeah, well, I mean, that's just it. I don't know about you. When I think about anointing, I mean I think of you know, biblically speaking, old Testament, you know David, or different times when God would have an anointing, a specific something who put over someone's life. This is what I have for you, that I need you to do, and I'm like gosh, wouldn't that be nice today if, like I knew exactly what I was anointed to do. Someone was going to come over and say, hey, you are anointed to X, y and Z. Well, it doesn't always look that way, but I kind of tell the story in the book and I thought I'd share with y'all.

Cynthia Yanof: 9:42

I have a friend that was diagnosed a couple years ago with a brain tumor and I went to her house and to spend some time with them before the big surgery the next day and her church had called and said can we come over and anoint you with oil? Now, that's different than the anointing we were talking about, but it's New Testament anointing with oil. Someone's sick and she was like I don't know, what do you think about this? I'm like I don't know, girl, but you've got a brain tumor, so why are we going to turn down anointing with oil, like let's go with it. And so her church friends came over and they did. They anointed with oil and afterwards you know how it is with oil I was thinking like it'd be just like a couple of drops on her head and a few people praying. But I mean like half of her church showed up, it was packed and they had all this oil and they had put it in her hairline and they prayed over it. It was really sweet and she went to go take a shower and you know, with oil, like when you get cooking oil in your hands, it leaves that residue it's hard to get off right. Well, that happened with her. She had taken a shower and the oil drained from her head down to her feet like on a shower pan. So later that night she's walking around the house and on her hardwood floors I could see her footprints from the oil.

Cynthia Yanof: 10:44

And it hit me later that like that's what anointing is, you guys? Like if we're doing the things God's called us to do, if we're leaning into the things that he has specifically planned for us, we're going to leave footprints wherever we've gone. That's what anointing looks like, because when we've been in a situation, we've been the places we're supposed to be. It looks different when we're gone, because the Lord's worked through us. We have been anointed to do those things and people are different, circumstances are changed, people are healed and I don't mean in a healing way like we're doing miracles maybe, but we are healing hearts and ministry is being created in the most ordinary of moments because we are fulfilling the thing the Lord had for us. So I like to think about that example. I just want there to be footprints where I spend the people know, I've been there.

Ellen Krause: 11:28

That was an amazing example. I love that because you can really visualize those little oil prints and then thinking about yourself like where has God placed you, gosh? You know what I want to leave a footprint of what God's called me to do to you. I love that. Well, one of the things that you talk about is sometimes we're put in a position where we are encouraged to chase after these big, god-sized callings in our lives, and one of the ones for you correct, was foster care, tell us how you were obedient in that and just how that changed your family.

Cynthia Yanof: 13:06

Yeah, absolutely. And as I tell you that, I just want to encourage everyone, some of you listening are probably called into foster care and that's great. I hope that you're pursuing that. Some of you will not be and I think whatever your calling is, this probably applies to it.

Cynthia Yanof: 13:20

Whatever the Lord's speaking into your life and we all have those things it's not a hidden thing, like the Lord made it very clear for our family when it became foster care. It wasn't, you know, lightning didn't strike, but every single person we talked to mentioned foster care. Every servant I heard was foster care. Every mailer that came in mentioned foster care. I'm like, okay, we get it, god, but it was one of those things that just the Lord laid on my heart and my husbands and we are both like, oh, foster care, like I think that's for more spiritual people than us. Like we were not the people that were like, absolutely, but we knew that that's the Lord wanted us to do. And so finally, begrudgingly, with a very reluctant yes, we're like, all right, and so we got involved in foster care, and by far the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. Also by far the most incredible opportunity the Lord's ever given us. And so to fast forward through the whole thing, I just I always say my testimony coming out of it is this I went into foster care scared. I mean I really was scared of what it would do to our bio kids, what it would do to our finances, our spiritual life, our everything. I mean I went into it scared and I came out of it scared of who we would be if we had not done it. Because we're changed people. I mean the Lord changes your heart, he changes your lens. When you're sitting in foster care offices with kids sitting around you, with everything they own in a trash bag, when you're taking your kids to parts of town that you've been trying to shield them from their whole life, but you're now there in the middle of that, when your family sits and prays over crib, night after night, of a sleeping baby that the Lord will just salvage and do something mighty through his life, you can't help but be changed. Through that.

Cynthia Yanof: 14:55

And that's my challenge is, yes, it was foster care for my family, but I want for all of us to have these experiences where God's like, yeah, lean in, it's hard, it's hardest thing I've ever done. But in that, not only did you get the opportunity to be his hands and feet, but you get the opportunity to know him on the other side of it even better, in ways I've never seen him before. And so we ended up getting to adopt our little one. In fact, crazy enough, ellen, this never happens. The very first child that was placed in our home was an infant, which we'd asked for older kids, which is hilarious that we got an infant, which is also hilarious that, fast forward, we've adopted him and I'm 50 with a seven year old.

Cynthia Yanof: 15:34

So everybody, take a moment there, do a little math, hello. And so we, we, you know God's plans are not always our own, usually not our own and definitely not in our timeframe. But I'm just so thankful that he can take a reluctant yes to whatever it is that he's asking you to do, even just that little tiny step of faith, and he makes a difference, he changes lives, and people often say like, oh, your little one man boy did, did he get lucky? I'm like, no, he didn't get lucky. Like we are the lucky ones. Right, we have the lucky ones because we got a little boy, but we got God, more and more of God, and so that's my encouragement to y'all laying into those hard places, yeah definitely.

Ellen Krause: 16:12

I know I had my last one at 35. And I thought I was an old, old mom. But then when I read what you say, I was like, oh man, I really had to laugh because I'm like, okay, yeah, that I'm sure that was a challenge, because they always say literally mother's young for a reason right.

Cynthia Yanof: 16:34

Right, I always say I'm the oldest mom on the playground and it works to. You know, my poor, our poor first kids, everyone. Can we have a moment of silence for our first kids that we've over parented and we've done? You know, everything had to look a certain way. And now I need, like a moment of silence for my third kid because I'm like gosh, like I want to be a better mom, I want to be that room mom, but I'm not going to do it and and I barely go to the birthday parties. I mean, I go to his birthday parties, but all the other friends I'm always like sending my husband. Can you go? I'm like you know, I feel like I'm getting a little old for some of this. So, yeah, it's an adventure for sure, being the oldest mom.

Ellen Krause: 17:07

Well, when life gets messy, we need friends, and you have your group called the Wednesday lunches right? I know I have a group, I guess we're not quite so humble. We call ourselves the FAB five. I love it, I love it. I'd love to hear you know your perspective on the value that friends bring. What types of characteristics should we be looking for?

Cynthia Yanof: 17:37

Yeah, you know, I think that I think that in, in theory, we all want and enclave strong friendships, but in reality, there's so many obstacles to getting there, time being the biggest, you know just a commitment to keeping our friendship strong, to building new friendships. It's hard, it's hard when you have jobs and kids and spouses and all those things, and so I get that. I also know that the most valuable thing, aside from the Lord and my family, has been these deep friendships I have yes, in that group you mentioned that we meet for lunch on Wednesdays and a lot of other friendships, and in those places that have been the hardest, those places of foster care and other things, kids making bad decisions and learning differences, and all the things we've walked I'm just so grateful to have a community around me that's pointing me back to the Lord, and and so it's worth fighting for, it's worth committing to and making time for, and and when you, you know we talk about what are we looking for? I would say this it's what we don't need to be obsessing over. That, I think, really matters. I think what we do is we end up, you know, looking at the 30 people that maybe aren't including us or maybe you know, all went and did this other thing we didn't get invited. Like, instead of leaning into the people that are there for us and the Lord has put our path, like, let's lean into those. I remember there's a study that I read and it talked about how we really can only have four or five Deep friendships, like a most behaviorally. That's where it lands. And so let's lean into those four or five.

Cynthia Yanof: 19:07

And In the Bible you know that story about the, the paralytic that was on the mat. He had those four guys that took him to Jesus and they couldn't get in the front door Because there are so many people right. So what they do? They just gave up. Oh no, they went up on the roof and cut a hole and lowered their buddy in front of Jesus because they knew that was the only way he would get healed.

Cynthia Yanof: 19:25

And I just would like to say listen, guys, find your four or five or three or whatever that Number is, but find those four. They're gonna believe in your marriage when you don't, and chase after your dreams when you've given up, and believe In your kids when they're making ridiculous decisions like you don't need the kid, you don't need the friends that you know, get to the crowded door and give up. You don't need the friends that don't even see your problem because they're so caught up in their own. You need those people. They're like the four that that guy had, that paralytic have. That will do anything to bring you to the feet of Jesus.

Cynthia Yanof: 19:54

And so I say, pray for that. You pray for that in your own life. The Lord is good, he'll honor that. Pray for that in the lives of your kids that they will have their entire life Four, five, three, whatever. That's solid friends. They will bring him before Jesus. That would be that's my hope. We need community and it's so important and I think it gets overlooked or for me I just assume it's always gonna be there and it just takes work.

Ellen Krause: 20:16

Yeah, yeah, it sure does. You know. I remember Out of college I was working in corporate America and then I took 10 years off to stay home with my kids and I remember Feeling like, oh my goodness, I have no friends now that I'm not in my working environment. I remember praying like God, would you bring me some godly women? And I think for me, one of them Just incredible gifts is the gift of prayer and praying for each other. When we've gone through so many different things that we can Look back on. And I remember my one of my friends kind of joke, you know, my, this is my son. He's like Ben, our poster child of prayer. And now to like see him, like you know, 20 years later, and just how God has made, developed him into an incredible man. I mean you, you can see over time, the beauty of all those intercessory prayers. Well, and isn't it interesting?

Cynthia Yanof: 21:24

I was just saying that I'm thinking out one of my kiddos too, but I don't know if you feel this way. I bet you do. But the very things that you prayed over all those years and I prayed over One of my kids in particular are the very things I would have asked the Lord to strip away from him. The hard place Is the hard things you'd face, for one of my kids is learning differences, and I would have done anything for the Lord to take that away. I didn't want him to be separated or set apart is different or whatever. And all these years later now I can look at him and be like, oh, those were the very things the Lord was developing in him and creating him to be who he is today. I mean, he's still in high school. We're not already, you know, out and flown by any means, but I can now see that the things I would have done, that, the things I would have stripped away, or the very things the Lord is going to use to make him who he's created him to be and what he's going to use for him as an adult. And so he's a hard worker.

Cynthia Yanof: 22:17

Everyone says that, every coach says that, every teacher says that well, it's always, ever known because he's had to work hard in school, because it wasn't easy for him. And just I look at the empathy and the compassion and the kindness, the things that the Lord has built into him through the struggle, and so I just, yeah, I say for everyone listening, if raising kids and walking some hard places, that yeah, it's so easy to want something different for your kids, to ask the Lord to take it away, but, like you were kind of saying, you get on the other side of it you can say, oh yeah, now I see Didn't make it easier at times, but now I can see what the Lord was developing and I'm just so grateful. His plan is better than mine, absolutely.

Ellen Krause: 22:54

That's why I know it's like you pray all these prayers, things that you know you think are the best, but then it's and. But not my will. Lord let your will be done right, like, okay, like I I can. I can understand that what he has Maybe better, but that's hard.

Cynthia Yanof: 23:13

Yes really hard. It's hard, yes, it's hard in the middle of it, for sure, yeah.

Ellen Krause: 23:20

Well, in our culture of social media, you know that's constantly sending us messages About basically a lot of times, feeding, feeding us lies. Tell us, like, how you have struggled maybe in that area and how do you try to make sure that you're aligned with God's truth? That's how you're aligned with God's truth.

Cynthia Yanof: 23:51

Yeah, yeah, I think it's taken a lot of years, a long time, for me to realize that, like my measure of success has got to line up with God's measure of success. And that's hard to figure out it, and for me one of the ways very practically that I've had to hone in on that is I've got to start realizing there's certain lies that I believe, like there's certain lies in culture that have become kind of truths in my life, and so I won't belabor it. But there's three that I kind of speak on a lot, that are the lies I'm prone to believe that don't line up with God's truth. One of them is that we're defined by the success and failures of our kids and you know I would have been a person that would have said, no, I'm not going to be that person. I mean, my kids are their own people. No, no, no. It didn't take me a couple of years before, you know, I was. I was looking to see what reading level they're on and then what college they're going to get into and what this and that, and how quickly that gets us into trouble.

Cynthia Yanof: 24:46

And the problem with that I think we've got, we've got to, we've got to really pay attention to is that the world's definition of success and the world's definition of failure are so skewed, and so success in our world are things that are measurable. Right, they're academics, they're great they're. They're not only academics, but, like you, know how fast can you run the track, athletics, all these other things that you can measure. But really, by God's standard, what is successful is unmeasurable, and the things we should most want in our kids are the things that they're not. They're not going to be postable, they're not going to be things that get them a word. Being nice in the cafeteria, taking themselves off of themselves, off of text thread, doing these things that nobody's going to give an ad a boy for, but they're the most God honoring thing they can do on a given day. Like that is success. And so my you know that's one of the lies I've had to. I've had to fight that I'm going to be defined by success and failure of my kids. Well, who gets to decide what's a success and a failure?

Cynthia Yanof: 25:39

The second lie that I've kind of dealt with is a lot of my life is just that ordinary is not enough that we've got to be doing these, whatever the world calls extraordinary things to have platform that everyone acknowledges. That pats me on the back Like those are the things that matter. And I think the Lord says listen, like, look biblically, where is he calling people? He's calling him out of the ordinary, shepherd, right, people that were just doing very normal jobs. Sweet, I mean we just, you know, a couple of months ago had Christmas and think about Mary, I mean Jesus, mother, I mean people that were in the very ordinary, not only in occupation, in education and geography, and the Lord's pulling out of the ordinary and doing something miraculous and extraordinary in those lives. And so I think we've got to fight that lie that ordinary is not enough, because what the world calls ordinary, I really believe that the Lord calls reputable and dependable and faithful. So that's the second lie is that I've had to, I've had to fight.

Cynthia Yanof: 26:37

And then the third one, I think, is just that everyone has to love and accept me. And it's funny because I know we just talked about friendships and the importance of community and that is important. But I don't want to get confused with the fact that everyone has to be on our team. Everyone has to love and it's what we're doing. There's no way that's going to happen in today's culture I mean our culture is so divided economically and racially and socially and politically Like it's just not going to happen if we're standing for the things that the Lord calls us stand for, and so we try our very best to live in harmony, but then after that we've got to realize that it's not always going to be the case that everyone's going to approve of what we're doing, is going to rubber stamp it, and so we build that community around us.

Cynthia Yanof: 27:16

We've chased after and pursue the Lord, and then we got to let some of the other things go, and so those are kind of the lies, yeah, that I've thought that we're defining the success and failures of our kids, that ordinary is not enough and everyone has to love and accept me. And those may not be your lies, as you're listening, but I just challenge all of us Get curious, especially in this new year. Get curious about the things like what am I believing, lord? Reveal that to me. What am I believing to be truth, which is actually not truth and not actually aligned with your word, and what's best in my life, and then kind of fight back on that. And I wish I would have done that about 20 years ago because it's been a long time letting myself be judged, not even by others, but myself. Judging myself by what culture says is a success and that's just not. That's not lining up with God's word.

Ellen Krause: 28:01

I can completely relate. I know that two of my daughters went to Moody Bible Institute and they received a phenomenal education there. But when I would tell people in the secular world like oh, where is your daughter or where are your kids going to college, and I would say that and really I got a lot of strange looks, I really did Like just not understanding, like how could that possibly lead to anything of you know valuable in a job? So yeah, it can definitely be challenging.

Cynthia Yanof: 28:37

Mine's almost the opposite. My oldest just went to college and she went to a very, very, very public university that has a lot of different beliefs and, in any event, I think people were kind of like, oh like, are you comfortable with that? I'm like at some point I don't know if it matters anymore I'm comfortable with the Lord's leading, and so we just, at the end of the day, that's all we can do. Yeah, and I hear what you're saying there.

Ellen Krause: 29:00

It is amazing. It needs to be salt and light wherever right. Whether it is that big public school or within.

Cynthia Yanof: 29:08

I mean I would. I would rather be someone else's kid. I'm just kidding, no, it's teasing, it's been great. But yeah, there is that. There is that we believe in salt and light until it's our kin. We're like oh gosh, I don't know.

Ellen Krause: 29:19

Yeah, no, I hear you. Well, one of the places that life can get kind of messy is in churches, right, I mean, things happen and people get bruised and tell us about you know how you feel, about you know reframing church hurt, so that we can engage in the importance of engaging with the faith community.

Cynthia Yanof: 29:47

Yeah, I mean it's hard, and when I talk about church heard, I know there is serious hurt and abuse in church and that's not what I'm talking about here, but just in terms of our feelings getting heard or feeling like there's hypocrisy.

Cynthia Yanof: 30:01

All of that, yeah, there is. As a girl who grew up in church I grew up in a church where my parents were very active. My mom's been on staff at church most of my life and so I get it I also understand that we are prone to let people take the place of God, and only God is God, and so when we start letting the people of the church, we start giving them an emphasis or putting them on a pedestal where we think they are God. That gets us in trouble. And so what I my hope is, in the places where there's church heard, that we can stop and realize we might be church heard to someone else, hopefully inadvertently, but we need to have grace and mercy for the places where we're all getting it wrong. People do get it wrong and I think I talk about this in the book a little bit about how you know if you're invited to the White House to meet the president and you could go in and hear all about what the country's going to be doing, and all of you know the defense plans and all these things. And on your way there you stopped at the guardhouse and you didn't like the music and you got offended and so you never went in because you were offended by the music in the guardhouse. Like that makes no sense, right? And I think that's what happens at church. Sometimes we are so easily offended sometimes rightfully so and sometimes not but we're offended by something that's tangential to the whole bigger picture of what the church is, and whether that's music I mean, quite literally, back in the day, that was something as divisive in churches. So is music, yeah, it can be. Yeah, yeah, or preaching, or how someone handles a community group or whatever the things are, the politics, all those things like, don't miss the bigger scope of this is God's plan for us to come together and pursue and follow him, and so some of us need, you know, maybe, some counseling through that. Some of us maybe need to just get over some things. Some of us need to maybe find a different place to worship.

Cynthia Yanof: 31:45

But I believe in church and, as a girl who grew up in it and has have a lot of good and a lot of hard come out of church. I just know those are the. Those are the people that have kept me on the right path. Those are the people that have loved me. They're the ones that show up time and time again, and so I just encourage you. If it's been hard, if there's been hurt, I'm sorry for that. If no one's told you're sorry, let me say I'm so sorry because it's the hardest kind of hurt. I've felt it. I've felt it last several years. But the Lord's worth it and pursuing him with his people is worth it. Yes, I completely concur.

Ellen Krause: 32:20

You know we've at our church over in there for I don't know, over two decades and it has it's had its share of ups and downs and getting different types of hurt, but overall, like when you see the bigger picture, and I know I treasure the people in our small group who who do life with you week in and week out and I wouldn't trade that for the world. Absolutely not, absolutely yeah. So yeah, if you're going to a church and you're not in a small group. Hey, I'd encourage you to check that out.

Cynthia Yanof: 33:01

All right?

Ellen Krause: 33:02

Well, as we start to kind of wrap things up here, Cynthia, I want to just kind of talk about your look at showing up as just raw and broken versions of ourselves. Tell us what you mean by that and how do we go about doing that.

Cynthia Yanof: 33:26

Yeah, yeah, I, and I'll definitely speak that. Let me tell you something funny though I have. I have a friend who was in charge of helping all the new families get oriented to our school. And so this friend, she planned a pool party a couple of summers ago and so it was all the new kids coming into the school with some existing families. Everybody's going to get to know each other. So they're at this pool party and my friend's kind of in and out of the water because it's middle school kids, she wants to make sure everybody's kind of gelling and talking. And then she's over talking to the parents and near the end of the pool party, one of her friends says hey, why is your bathing suit bottom seem a little bit see through? And she just laughed and she was like oh, I don't know it's, you know old Navy product, it's a couple of years old, it's to be expected. And she just laughed it off. She's the funniest girl ever.

Cynthia Yanof: 34:13

And that was that until she ended the party and went to change, told her boys, wait outside and we run, change back into my clothes and we'll head out. And she went to change and she realized that several hours before the party, but she'd put on her tankini. She had only put on her tankini top and the bottom. She had been walking around in her nude colored granny panties, the entire oh. And I tell you the story, you guys, because I think this is literally like such a metaphor of life, like none of us are meaning to walk around in our granny panties, but we are showing parts of us we never meant to expose, parts of us that we never knew, maybe we even had and we're walking around and, whether we know it or not, we're showing off stuff.

Cynthia Yanof: 34:56

And so I would just say, like, embrace it a little bit, like be willing to laugh. Okay, just be able to say like this is the true and authentic, vulnerable version of myself. And yeah, sometimes I'm going to get it right, sometimes I'm going to get it wrong and I'm going to fight battles I don't need to fight. I mean, on a personal level, I have had more hills to die on than anyone deserves to deal with. That do not matter. And so I think I would just that's my encouragement Like can we just laugh a little bit about it and say, yeah, that's my bad, I'm taking things too seriously, or that's just a hard spot with me. Like, let's work through this together.

Cynthia Yanof: 35:27

I think those are just places where we can lean in and laugh a little bit and be vulnerable and authentic with people. And you know, the great thing about that, ellen, is when we're able to do that, that naturally builds community, which is the thing that we need the most. That builds those friendships. It gives us opportunities to speak into other people's lives.

Cynthia Yanof: 35:45

That's one of the things I love about humor, and why I love to laugh and I hope that my book causes everyone to laugh is because I think if you can get people laughing at yourself, if you're willing to lay out some of those things, walk around in your undies perhaps metaphorically, of course if you're willing to do those things, it opens the door to have opportunities to speak deeper truths and deeper wisdom, and the Lord can use that, and so that's my encouragement. Yeah, like, just just lean into it, let's laugh a little bit about it. There's parts of us we never. We never saw it coming. We were going to act as we got older and had kids and marriage and all those things, and so, yeah, that's where, that's where I fall on. I hope that everyone gets a good laugh and also, within that laugh that we can build deep, deep bonds and friendships.

Ellen Krause: 36:25

Absolutely. You need to pick up Cynthia's book. Life is Messy. God is Good. But before we go, cynthia, I want to ask you about some of our favorite questions we like to ask our guests. Just a couple of here, what Bible is your go to Bible? In which translation is it?

Cynthia Yanof: 36:49

I use the NIV. Hold on, I'm turning around everyone, hold on. Are we ready? I have the Life Application Study Bible NIV. Now I really enjoy ESV too and I guess such a great privilege. As country I have lots of Bibles, but this is I'm showing you, this is my I, when I speak beat, nut battered, underlined, everything else Bible. In fact, I was just reading the Christmas story to my kids. I want you to see this. The whole page is ripped out, like I'm like when did the pay? When did when did Luke? To get torn out of my Bible? That's terrible. So anyway, yeah, the Life Application Study Bible NIV is the one I turn to, the most Excellent.

Ellen Krause: 37:25

Okay, do you have any like favorite journaling supplies or anything that you like to use to enhance your Bible study experience?

Cynthia Yanof: 37:35

Okay, well, I'm a horrible journal, or everyone I need you to know this and I want to be a great journal, or my husband is really great at it and everyone that I read and follow and love journals. I do not like to journal and I don't know why, and so I did get this for Christmas a year ago the five year journal. Have you ever seen one of these? I have not, and it's literally just every it's. It goes five years and it's like five lines for every day, and for me this has been something that I can manage. I just write a couple of sentences in there.

Cynthia Yanof: 38:10

But the cool thing about it is so if you look at January 2nd, then it has on that one page January 2nd, all the years, five years. So you can see what you were writing in 2024, 2025, 2026, on that day. So the five year journal, I would say, has been kind of a good thing for me as one who is not a great journal, or because it's a quick thought, biblical thought, whatever's going on, sometimes just a life thought, but that's been, that's been a good resource for me, absolutely, um, our family, uh, has that book and to even just keeping prayers and looking back and see what was I praying for a year ago, um, this time, and see how God's been at work, for sure, that's an awesome.

Ellen Krause: 38:50

I'm so glad you brought that up. We will include a link to that in the show notes. Lastly, what is your favorite app or website for Bible study tools?

Cynthia Yanof: 39:01

I enjoy the enduring word commentary. Sometimes I just jump on it because it's fast. But I am big into dwell. I make no money from dwell everyone. But I do love dwell because I love hearing God's word read to me, like in the car, and you know, you can pick what music you want under him's contemporary, whatever the person reading it, the accent, all the things. You can kind of tailor it. And I don't do this all the time, by no means, but sometimes after I drop my little off at school or I'm driving across town, just hearing God's word read to me, I love. So that's been an app that the last couple of years has kind of been a resource to me and worth checking out?

Ellen Krause: 39:39

for sure, it sure is. Yes, I love the dwell app too. In fact, I really love their daily devotional. I don't know if you've clicked on that before, but no, they do. They have great just devotionals that kind of get your day off to a really great start. So I will check that out. All right, cynthia? Well, congratulations on your new book. Thank you so much for joining us today and just helping us embrace the messy places in life and finding joy in the challenges, and I just pray that whoever was listening feels the same way and can have a good chuckle.

Cynthia Yanof: 40:20

Oh, ellen, thank you for that, and thank you so much for having me and chatting about the book and just praying for everyone listening, just that. Yeah, they can embrace the mess and have a laugh along the way.

Ellen Krause: 40:30

So thanks so much. Okay, you are welcome for our listeners. Be sure and get a copy of Cynthia's book Life is messy. God is good. We will have the link in our show notes. We love you all, appreciate you listening. Would love it if you guys would leave a review. Have a blessed day.