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Email us at podcast@coffeeandbibletime.com
Thanks for listening to Coffee and Bible Time, where our goal is to help people delight in God's Word and thrive in Christian living!
Check out our website for more ways to fully connect to God's Word. There you'll find:
Find more great content on our YouTube channel: Coffee and Bible Time
Follow us on Instagram
Visit our Amazon Shop
Learn more about the host Ellen Krause
Email us at podcast@coffeeandbibletime.com
Thanks for listening to Coffee and Bible Time, where our goal is to help people delight in God's Word and thrive in Christian living!
I think too, when it's just when we're isolated with us as a couple, by ourselves, you get used to what you're living in, and so when other people look into it and they say that is messed up, you know what I mean Like that's not normal, and where you're like, wait, this is our normal, but someone else with fresh eyes and that's what a counselor can do, that's what a small group can do it's affirming us to saying, okay, I thought something was off, and so I think we need people to walk alongside us. When we're in isolation, that's where the enemy gets a foothold in our minds, our thoughts, what we should do, and so we think that's critical in a marriage.
Ellen Krause:Welcome back to the Coffee and Bible Time podcast. For those that may be listening for the first time, our podcast is an offshoot from our main platform, YouTube. Our channel is called Coffee and Bible time, where our goal is to help people delight in God's word and thrive in Christian living. We also have a website and storefront with Bible studies, prayer journals, courses and more. If you've ever felt like your marriage could use a bit tune-up a , you are in the right place. Joining us today are Dave and Ann Wilson of Family Life Today, and they are here to discuss the Art of Marriage, the series that has been transforming marriages for years. This episode is for you if you are newly married, if you're a seasoned couple, an empty nester or part of a blended family. Building marriages on a biblical foundation matter in fostering healthy relationships, and families and couples who are on solid footing, as well as couples who are currently maybe experiencing a rough patch, will benefit from the knowledge and experience shared here today. So stick around to learn more about setting your marriage back on the right track.
Ellen Krause:Dave Wilson was the Detroit Lions Chaplain for 33 seasons, a lead pastor and a nationally touring speaker, as well as the radio host with his wife, ann, of the nationally syndicated radio show Family Life Today, but it's his singular passion for enriching lives through spreading the word and wisdom of God that truly defines him as the co-founder, alongside his wife, of Kensington Community Church. Dave's energy and experience allow him to engage with crowds of any size. Ann Wilson has served alongside her husband for more than 25 years, co-founding Kensington Community Church, speaking at Family Life's weekend to remember and hosting their own marriage conferences across the country. They live in the Detroit area and they have three grown sons, three daughters-in-law and five grandchildren. Please welcome Dave and Ann.
Dave Wilson:Good to be here.
Ellen Krause:It's great to be with you. Thank you so much for joining us on our podcast today. You know, I was looking through all of the materials that you guys sent over to me and I decided to check out your YouTube channel so we're YouTubers and I thought, oh, I'm going to check out and see what kind of stuff you have over there. So I found a video on there from 14 years ago called Rock, your Marriage and Dave. You started off with a funny story about how you used to drive the minivan on long trips and just you finally got tired enough that you decided to let Ann drive. And just as you fell asleep, one of the kids woke up.
Ellen Krause:I thought maybe you would like to share the rest of that part of the story.
Dave Wilson:Well, that was a long time ago, you know. As you said, we already have grandkids now. So that son that woke up, austin, is now a literary agent. So he owns a company where they represent authors to publish yours, so he's our agent, for our writing stuff.
Ann Wilson:But back in those days. If anyone has small kids, you know this that the best place to be in the car when you have small children is the driver's seat, Because if you're in the passenger seat the kids always have needs, and they're hungry or they need something or they have to go to the bathroom, and so Dave gets really tired. All the kids are asleep in the back, so when he says, hey, do you want to drive? My answer is yes.
Dave Wilson:And so I thought I was safe because they were asleep, yeah, so I literally tilled it back the reclining seat and I was going to take a nap and I I don't think I even close my eyes and my middle son, austin, said I got to go pee pee, I got to pee pee and we have boys, three boys, so we didn't really stop. You know, we just had a Maxwell coffee can you know one of those big ones that will get on it.
Dave Wilson:And we kept driving so and, like you know, elbows me like you've got it.
Ann Wilson:And also he's only two and a half. He hasn't been potty trained that long.
Ellen Krause:And I know this, and every mom knows this.
Ann Wilson:When they say that at that age you've got to move quick. And Dave was not moving quite.
Dave Wilson:I did not move quite quick enough. So by the time I turned around he had already stand up, stood up, pull his pants down and it was coming. And so I turned around and the first part hit me right in the forehead. I got the rest of it, but this woman right here could not. She laughed, or she couldn't even keep the car in the road.
Ann Wilson:So funny. But also we shared that story because sometimes marriage can be like that and raising kids can be like that. You're going along and then just something hits you that's really hard to deal with, whether it's whether it's a marriage that's struggling, kids that are struggling, like outside influences that are affecting your family or a real trial.
Dave Wilson:You know, something devastating could happen to you or a family member. And yeah, that was the illustration that we usually use it for is when you go to a marriage conference or read a marriage book or whatever, listen to a marriage podcast, you can think, oh, everything's good. And then you're going to be surprised. Reality is going to hit you right in the forehead and you got to be ready to deal with it. It's going to be hard and God's going to be there and he's going to be with you and he's going to meet you. But life is life is sort of like that. You never see what's coming Absolutely.
Ellen Krause:Yeah, that's really what I got out of. I think your point was that life is unpredictable and you know. Based on what you know now, what advice would you give your 14 years, your younger selves that were in that video today?
Dave Wilson:I mean, my first thought is you don't build a foundation in a storm, you build it for the storm. So we all know the foundation is the most important part of any structure, especially a house, and so you know, when it's calm and when the weather's good, you go out and you dig and you build, and it's hard work, and then you build the house on that and then when the storms come, you've got something. I mean, so many times we don't have a foundation. A storm comes and we want to build it then and it's almost impossible because you're in trauma and in a marriage, you're yelling at one another and there's no foundation. So I would say build it now, build it while you can.
Ann Wilson:And we're saying the foundation is Jesus, it's our faith, that's where we find stability and hope. And I would add to that back then I don't think I realized I don't think most of us realize, going into marriage that every single marriage naturally drifts toward isolation. That just happens in a marriage and we don't. I didn't know that. I thought, oh, we're just always going to be in love and it's always going to be easy. No, it's super hard and culture and our families, even our kids demands and needs pull us apart relationally. And so if we don't intentionally make sure we're moving toward oneness and we have to fight for that, we will all just drift toward isolation and get to the point where we feel like I don't really know you, I don't know if I really love you the way I used to, and that is normal and common. I didn't know that either. That if you don't work at it, that's and everybody deals with that those real highs and real lows.
Ellen Krause:Absolutely Well. You two are part of a group of wise marriage mentors whose mission is to inspire and equip today's couples. Tell us how you guys, collectively, have done that through the art of marriage series.
Dave Wilson:Yeah, well, one of the tools that Family Life developed almost 15 years ago was a six session video series called the Art of Marriage. Again, this was over a decade ago and it was unique in its time because it combined art whether it be poetry or dance or, you know, I don't know, skits, you know and art with a variety of voices on the topic of marriage. So it wasn't just one couple, it was several older, younger, different diversity talking about marriage. And you know, when it came out Family Life, we really didn't know how it could be used. And next thing, we know, a million people were using it around the world, in different languages, either as a one day conference at a church or a small group in your home and bring couples over six nights, six weeks in a row, whatever.
Dave Wilson:Anyway, all that to say it was time to reimagine or refresh it, and because it became a little dated, and so we just launched, just recently, the new art of marriage. It's the same but it's not the same. It's the same but it's different. The same is, there's still art. The same is. There's different voices, but it's different and it's it's fresh and it's really, really good. I mean, we were one of the couples they interviewed on six different words. It ends up being around six different words Hebrew and Greek and we didn't even know exactly how we would end up fitting into it. But we've seen them all now and we're just one of about six couples that talk about these different words and it's really, really well done.
Ann Wilson:I think one of the things I really like about it, too, is the diversity in both age and race. I feel like everybody will be able to relate to it. I really love this one of how the couples are raw and authentic, saying this has been really hard or we really struggled in this area, but they'll give the hope of Jesus, the hope of the gospel and what that is look like. And I think the other thing that I've really appreciated about it is that almost all the couples are speaking as couples. The old art of marriage had a few couples, but this is mostly men teaching before, but this one it has both men and women, husbands and wives, talking about what this looks like, because we know when you're a husband speaking, the men are relating, but sometimes it's good to get that woman's voice in there to say this is what it's like for me it's always good it is good and our being test is what our kids, what our adult kids like this who are in their early and late thirties and, yes, they really love it.
Ann Wilson:We're finding that, no matter how old you are, where you are, whether you're doing great, your marriage or struggling couples are loving this.
Ellen Krause:That's so awesome and it's so it's so needed. Well, the new series includes really candid discussions on a wide range of topics. Let's say money, for example, is one. What are kind of the hottest topics, would you say, that marriages are facing currently, and how will the art of marriage series help people tackle them?
Dave Wilson:I mean, I would say one of the hottest ones is the one we cover in the first session. The Hebrew word is hesead, which means unwavering, never quitting, resilient love. And I mean we live in a day and a time where people are giving up. I mean, it's always been true. Divorce has always been a part of marriage. But man, at unprecedented numbers, people are just quitting. A ffairs, are tearing apart families. How do you stay in love when you got to navigate through one of your partner betraying a vow? So that's covered and we start right there. Let's go, let's talk about how God's love is hesead. It's unwavering, even when we break our vows. How does that, what's that look like in a marriage? So I think that's definitely one of the biggest ones.
Ann Wilson:We've talked about conflict. Sex is in there as we travel around the country to that topic of physical intimacy. I mean, we're so bombarded with the culture and what the culture saying I don't think most of us have any idea what biblical physical intimacy or sex is supposed to look like in a marriage. And we all carry so much baggage from our past. And so I like the practicality of what do we do with all of that and what does God's words say about this? And I do like the end too, because the end gets into the now. What Like can we use this to affect our neighborhood and our world? And we're finding with especially couples that are empty nest couples, our kids are grown and I think they feel a little lost, like now. Now, what do we do? Like we've raised our kids, what's the purpose of our life and marriage? And I think I like this because it really gives you a vision. Oh, you're not done yet. God has so much more for you.
Ellen Krause:Yes, that's so, so important. It's interesting because my husband and I are kind of just like right there at that stage. We have one out of the house, two still here, but it is it's starting to. All those thoughts are going through your mind because you just are at least for me personally, I've been, so you know, devoted as being a mom, and that that is a big transition. I think the other part of that, too, is seeing your own kids fall in love.
Ellen Krause:And you're like oh, that's what you know, that's what that new romantic love was like, and sort of reminiscing back on that, and I think that's a perfect time for sort of a tune up, as you said. Well, Dennis Rady has a quote which is your marriage may be the most powerful statement for the gospel of Jesus Christ. Tell us, what is that kind of marriage look like?
Dave Wilson:I think in today's day and age, I think it looks like. I think it looks like weakness. I honest, I mean it sounds crazy to say that I think the next generation, younger couples, are not looking for a perfect marriage. They're looking for an authentic marriage that has real victory and real power in Jesus. But we share our struggles, we don't hide them, the things we've struggled with. I mean our books are all our podcasts.
Dave Wilson:Every day there's a you know it's terrible to say, but we still struggle, and so we share those authentically. And so I think couples want couples they can relate to, but then at the same time, they also want to know do you have an answer, do you have? Do you know Jesus in a way that I need in my marriage? And so it's both and it's the weakness, but it's the strength in our weakness which Paul says we find in Christ. So I think that's what couples are looking for, and somebody I can relate to that doesn't hide their pain but sort of says here's where we struggle, but here's where Jesus meets us in that struggle, and Jesus is the one that will meet you as well.
Ann Wilson:And I think too, when you look at a couple, that when you've been married awhile, you see everything. You see every flaw, you know the background, you know the struggle, and so you see each other now like fully, fully. When you get married on your wedding day you're not, you don't see everything, you don't know everything, but when you can married for awhile, you know everything about this person and you're still going to love them and stay with them. You see it all, but you extend grace and you love in the midst of that. That's the gospel, that's the gospel.
Ann Wilson:Jesus sees our flaws, our pain, our failure and he continues to pursue us and love us. When people see a marriage like that, like wait, you guys have gone through that and you still love each other yes, that just points directly to Jesus.
Ellen Krause:Yes, it sure does. It sure does. One of the topics on the list that was mentioned was addiction, and maybe we have some people that are listening here today where one person, let's say, and the couple is experiencing some kind of addiction, how can the art of marriage help this couple and when is it time for them to, let's say, seek professional counseling?
Ann Wilson:I mean, my first response is if a person is pondering if my spouse has an addiction, I would say, automatically you need professional counseling. Just for someone to say, yes, that does look like an addiction. Yes, here's what you can do, because it's hard in marriage to know. Honestly, I think every single person could use a wise biblical counselor. Not everyone can afford that, though, and so to be a part of a church where you're in a community of believers that some are more mature than you, maybe they've had more experience it's really good to be in a circle of people that can help you with that, and that depends on if the spouse is willing to even admit to it or talk about it.
Dave Wilson:Yeah, I used to say sometimes when I was preaching life change happens in circles better than rose. So when you go to church you sit in rows and that's great, it's awesome I'm a pastor, I'm up there preaching and it's great that people are there listening. But you're not looking at anybody in the eye, you're not hearing each other's stories, you're not going to get in a small group and sit in a circle. Again, it doesn't have to be in a circle, but if you're in a family room or a coffee shop or a basement, it doesn't matter where things are going to happen, because you're going to be able to share life on life. And anybody's struggling with an addiction.
Dave Wilson:The art of marriage ends up just being a tool. That's all it is. It's a tool that puts people in circles, and it's what it does, and it gives you topics to talk about. So you pop it in for 20 minutes and it gives you a topic, and then you turn to one another and say, okay, based on what we just watched, let's talk.
Dave Wilson:And somebody that's got a hidden sin or a hidden struggle or an addiction. It'll take a few weeks maybe, but it's going to come out because they're going to feel loved, they're going to feel accepted. They're going to feel like, wow, there's people here that struggle like me. And whatever around other people, you think you're the only one, and even if you sit in a row at church, you may think everybody in my row is a lot better than I am. But when you get in a circle and you look people in the eye and you get to the place where you trust one another, that's where life change starts to happen, and that's how addictions get broken. They're never broken in isolation, they're always broken in community, and so this gives you a chance to build community.
Ann Wilson:I think too, when it's just when we're isolated with us as a couple, by ourselves, you get used to what you're living in, and so when other people look into it and they say that is messed up.
Ann Wilson:You know what I mean Like that's not normal. Where you're like, wait, this is our normal, but someone else with fresh eyes, and that's what a counselor can do, that's what a small group can do. It's it's affirming us to saying, okay, I thought something was off, and so I think we need people to walk alongside us. When we're in isolation, that's where the enemy gets a foothold in our minds, our thoughts, what we should do, and so we think that's critical in a marriage.
Ellen Krause:Yeah, that's, that's an excellent point. Do you find that there is, like usually, one person in the couple that really wants to do this art of marriage and they're kind of dragging the other person along, or, you know, is it like, oh, they both really want to do it?
Ann Wilson:I think it's so normal to have one and, generally speaking, not always, but generally the woman's. Just we tend to be more aware of the relationship, what's going on, how we can get better. I was so messed up I was like Dave needs this so much. You know, I don't need it as much as Dave, Whereas, no, I needed it just as much. But I think that's really common. But I do think if you can get your spouse there, at least to the first one, I think everybody will be pleasantly surprised. Like whoa, these people are just normal people. They're messed up, but their hope is in Jesus, and I can relate to this and the art of marriage. It's a very non-threatening atmosphere too. It's just normal people.
Dave Wilson:And you're gonna laugh. It's pretty funny stuff too as well. So humor is gonna be something you need in your life.
Ann Wilson:but Breaks down well.
Dave Wilson:Some ways, I think it's like okay, if your spouse wants to go and you really don't want to. It's like your spouse is saying let's go work out, and you're like no, and then you get in a gym and you do it and you're like I'm really glad I did that. Yeah, it's the same thing. It's good for me, it's better for me. I was, you were pulling me all the way into the onto the elliptical, but guess what?
Ann Wilson:But it's a lot easier than the gym.
Dave Wilson:A lot easier than gym, that's true, that's a great analogy.
Ellen Krause:Well, what role does Biblical knowledge and insight play in fostering healthy marriages and families?
Dave Wilson:I think it's. It's critical Cause again, you know, when we first got married I was pretty new in my faith. I'd just become a Christian a year or so earlier. I had no idea at that point. The Bible literally had the foundation for marriage, a game plan for marriage, how to deal with conflict and struggles and sexual area of your marriage all in the word of God. I had no idea it was that practical. So, yeah, we think that's our, that's our book. We go to the word of God for anything but especially marriage. God instituted it, he designed it husband and wife, man and woman and he knows how to make it work. And, man, you got an issue, the answer for you. There's practical tools and advice right in the word of God.
Ann Wilson:I just, we just got off a love like you mean it, marriage cruise, that family life, and I was supposed a huge ship, just on marriage which is 4,000, 5,000 people phenomenal.
Ann Wilson:But I was just speaking to the women on this ship and I said one of the things that has changed my life and my marriage is that I read the Bible through every single year, and I've done it for 18 years now. And I say it's not because I'm spiritual. I want you to hear this. It's not because I'm more spiritual, it's because I'm desperate, like if I'm not in the word, my eyes in three days will be on myself in three days.
Dave Wilson:No in one day.
Ann Wilson:Because the Bible takes you back like, oh, here's my anchor, Jesus is my anchor. Jesus is my life. I find my hope and my happiness and my life through him, and the word always reminds us of that. And so I'm so desperate and needy that I have to be in the word continually. If not, if the word doesn't disciple us, the culture will. And I don't know about you, but I don't think the culture is doing a great job of pointing us to Jesus.
Ellen Krause:No, no, that's for sure. Staying grounded in God's word daily is, yeah, keeps yourself in check first and foremost, and when that's done, then it definitely contributes to the better outcome of the couple. Well, you had mentioned earlier that when people do this marriage series, they're watching a video, but there are also some excellent like companion workbooks that go with it and some really cool activities that can help develop connection. Tell us a little bit more about that.
Dave Wilson:Well, this one's unique in that there's a his and her workbook. So the wife has her own and the husband has his own, and so you take notes, you make applications and then it has homework. So after each session you have whatever the time period is between sessions. You have time to say okay, it's one thing to hear the word, it's another thing to do the word. So what's this gonna look like for me personally as a husband, for me personally as a wife, and then what's gonna look like for us as a couple? So it gives you activities to say, okay, if we're gonna apply this, this is what it could look like today, and then we'll come back tomorrow or next week or whenever the next session is, and the same thing will happen.
Ellen Krause:Do you have an example of what one of those might be like?
Dave Wilson:I mean, one of the biggest ones is what Anne mentioned earlier is how do you stop the drift to isolation? Because that's natural. Couples don't realize this. That naturally will happen. You'll drift apart. So you have to literally intentionally say how are we going to build on this? That has to be an action step.
Dave Wilson:So one of the biggest things that the art of marriage helps you do is say, okay, once a week Again, if that's the time period between sessions we're going to sit on the couch or we're going to sit in the family room or somewhere and we're going to talk about us, about our relationship, about our vertical relationship with Christ and our horizontal relationship with one another. And so it sort of forces you to say, okay, this is an action step that hopefully you'll continue to do after you're done with the art of marriage. It's like this is something we got to do regularly in our marriage anyway, and most couples get so busy and they have kids and they have sports and they have school and they have all kinds of activities going on. They rarely we. You know, if you don't put it on the calendar and make it happen, you're going to just talk about stuff that keeps life going, like your kid's schedule rather than how are we doing? So it's sort of like a date night that's spiritual in nature but also going to help your marriage get better.
Ann Wilson:It's funny. We're mentoring a couple right now. They're a younger couple and they were talking about, like we started, they've gone through some trauma, some hard things. And so they said we found that we were really putting so much time in when we've gone through there was some infidelity. When we went through that we got closer.
Ann Wilson:But now it's been a while and we were finding that we're not going as deep or intimate as we did in our conversations and so I sent them hey, maybe this Sunday you could ask these questions, and this is what the art of marriage does. And then I said and then pray for each other, just a quick prayer, like you pray as a wife, and then have the husband pray out loud. It could take 10 seconds each, you know, that's it. And so she texts me the next day and she said I'm just going to tell you that we have never both prayed out loud. She said it was one of the most amazing, gratifying things that we have ever done as a couple and I feel closer to him than I have felt in ages, and so it gives those practical kind of tools that just draw us closer.
Ellen Krause:Yes, I completely feel the same way. There is something supernatural about that sharing prayer together like that. Well, as we start to kind of wrap things up a bit, what would you say to a couple out there, maybe just even one of the spouses, who is at the point where they feel like their marriage is hopeless? What encouragement would you give them?
Ann Wilson:One of the things I would encourage you to do is to fall in your face every day before Jesus. What I try to do as a woman is I try to figure it out, or I blame shift, or I think if he would just do this, we could have made it. And we've been up to a point in our marriage. We wrote about it in our book, vertical Marriage, where I told Dave I have nothing, I have nothing left, I don't have any feelings for you, I don't even care if we make it or not, and I think that's where a lot of people are, and we become hopeless, thinking it's never going to change. He's never going to change. And one of the things that I had to do every single day is realize Dave is not my hope. He was never created or made to make me happy.
Ann Wilson:My happiness comes from Jesus and my walk with him, and it's not that I need to work on my marriage, but I'm saying that's the first place, that every day I fall in my face. This has become a habit since that time in our marriage where my prayer is Lord, I give you my life again. Today it's like in Romans 12, one and two when he says to offer yourselves as a living sacrifice. And so here I am, Jesus. I can't do anything apart from you and tell God the truth, because confession is telling the truth. I don't have feelings for my husband, I don't have hope, I don't know what to do. In James one it says if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God who gives generously Lord. I'm asking for wisdom because I don't know what to do. I have nothing left. I have no feelings and no hope. I need you. That's where I would start.
Dave Wilson:I don't know how I could add anything to that.
Dave Wilson:That's exactly my answer as well. You're not going to solve your marriage by looking at your spouse. That's wonderful, and she or he is something you care about. But you got to look to Jesus first and then look inside and own your part of the sin or mistakes in the marriage and start there. Probably, if you're like me, you're pretty selfish and so you easily blame your spouse instead of yourself and say no, what is my responsibility here? How can I make this marriage better? And at some point and again we're answering a complex, deep question in just a minute or two but at some point forgiveness is going to have to become a part of that marriage, because I guarantee you've been hurt, you've hurt your spouse, and at some point you're going to have to fall into your face and say I can't forgive God. You got to give me the power to forgive and he will.
Ann Wilson:And we have a. Our book is about that vertical marriage and we have a small group that goes along with that. If you're at that place where you're like I don't know what to do, it's funny. We gave one to our UPS guy that was at our door and he goes hey, I don't even know how you did that, but anyway gave it to him, and this guy leaves the note, or us, or UPS driver put a note on the door. Hey, I want to thank you because your book has saved our marriage. I thought we were getting divorced, but we're seeing that first.
Ellen Krause:That's amazing, isn't?
Ann Wilson:that cool yeah.
Ellen Krause:Those Thank you so much for for sharing from the heart there, and and Dave, both of you just that. I think most couples will hit rock bottom and, like you said, falling on your feet, looking towards Jesus and and starting with yourself is so important. And then people have the opportunity to start this art of marriage program anytime. Tell everyone how they can connect with family life and get started on the program.
Dave Wilson:I mean, probably the easiest way is familylifecom. Everything's there. It's our website. You go to a marriage conference. You can sign up for one there, but the art of marriage and even vertical marriage is there. Anything you want, just go to the website, type in art of marriage. It'll come up and you can get it. You can get it today.
Ann Wilson:You know it's, it's just streams, it's your device and the workbooks will be sent to you and you're off our radio podcast is called family life today and so if you go on to podcast or you can also find it on family lifecom. But we just got done a few weeks ago doing like a week's worth of conversations about art of marriage on a round table discussion with some of the speakers and that that are on the art of marriage, so that could give you a good intro to on what could this look like and what's what's it. How could it help you?
Ellen Krause:Yeah, that's what I think is so super exciting is that people can start today if they want. You don't have to wait any longer. You don't have to wait for a specific day for a seminar or a conference or something. I love that about it. All right, well, we will make sure we have a link to that in our show notes before we go. I want to ask you some of our favorite Bible study tool questions. People are always curious to know what Bible is your go to Bible and what translation is it?
Ann Wilson:Well, I have a few different things Because I'm reading. I read the one year Bible every year. I actually just and this is just reading, and so I like a very easy to understand, flowing kind of translation. So I use the NLT version, the new living translation. It's just an easy read. But then when I go into like a deeper dive, I'll use a study Bible. Honestly, I'll dive into a bunch of different ones too, just to compare those, whether it be the NIV, the ESV. I'll just compare a lot of them and I mean, we have this Bible software. That's pretty awesome that you can compare them all together that Dave uses and has used for a long time for his preaching and teaching. Yeah, I was just going to add.
Dave Wilson:I like them all. Yeah, I mean, if I want to study, I'm usually ESV and even the ESV study Bible or the NIV study Bible. But yeah, I have a Logos software that I got years ago as a preacher and it has every translation and hundreds of commentaries and dictionaries and psychopedias and archeological stuff. Yeah, and you know when you really want to take a deep dive, those tools. I mean, back in the day I had books.
Dave Wilson:Commentaries from Seminary laid around my office literally all over the floor, and now all of that's digital. It's crazy how you know you can get that today and you can become a scholar if you want to, because you can dig in deep. And so we use them. We use quite a bit.
Ann Wilson:And I would add, for those of you who are thinking I can never read the Bible through any year, you can also listen to it now. Yeah, and there are some amazing apps that we can just listen to the Bible. With what my kids were little, I was like, are you kidding? I have barely any time to myself. But we have different ways that we can hear God's word, which is always transformative.
Ellen Krause:Most definitely All right. Well, we will definitely put a link to the Logos software in there. We use it as well, and it's absolutely incredible. Next question, then do you have any favorite journaling supplies or anything that you like to use to enhance your Bible study experience?
Dave Wilson:I don't have any journal supplies. I just take notes and I do a lot of it digitally. So I'm a paperless guy and I probably should use paper. So someday my kids and grandkids will see what I'm journaling. It's all on my phone, it's all on my iPad, it's all on my laptop. So that's sort of how I do it, and one of the reasons I do that honestly is I do the same thing when I'm hearing a sermon or a message or a Bible study. I take notes digitally because you can send them to people. So I used to send them to my three sons. Just say hey, I just heard this great talk. Here are the notes. And the next thing, you know, you have a conversation going back and forth, which was easier than sending a letter. But now obviously you could take a picture of your notes and send it digitally as well, but I like to share and then start a conversation. So digital notes for me.
Ann Wilson:I go in and out of journaling, but one of the things I do like now is I like the Bibles that have margins on both sides of them so that when I read something and God, something jumps off the page, I can journal to the side of the Bible and then put a date beside that. It's fun to go back through and say, oh, look, what God was doing three years ago.
Ann Wilson:You know, it's fun to see some of those things that he was talking to me about and also how he's met me right there. A few years later you can look back and see how God answers some of those things that you are going through.
Ellen Krause:Absolutely, absolutely. Oh, that's awesome, all right, well, great tips there, Dave and Ann. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with our audience today about the importance of strengthening our marriages. Hopefully, if you're listening out there, do it now right. Build the foundation, if not jump in at any point.
Ann Wilson:Thanks, thanks, Ellen, for all you're doing too. Yep, thank you.
Ellen Krause:Thank you and for our listeners, consider investing in your marriage today with the Art of Marriage program. We will have all the links in our show notes. We love you all and appreciate you listening. Have a blessed day, thank you.