How We Money: Taking Turns Chasing Your Dreams

Karen and Mike Bankowski both have an entrepreneurial spirit, but raising two kids while building their businesses requires balance (and money). These high school sweethearts get honest about juggling work and family, surviving the effects of COVID on small businesses, and funding the passions that became their livelihoods.

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Transcript

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- Taking turns, chasing your dreams.(rock music) Welcome to Common Cents on the Prairie™, a podcast dedicated to helping you demystify the sometimes complex topic of money. I'm Adam Cox, head of Wealth Management for The First National Bank in Sioux Falls. We're a community bank based out of South Dakota. In this podcast, we share expert insights from around the country and stories from our local community to arm you with the tools you need to make better financial decisions. Because the truth is, the more we talk about this stuff, the better off we're all going to be. Today I'm joined by Mike and Karen Bankowski. I've known Mike and Karen for 20 years now, and I've enjoyed watching them build their family and their careers. Karen has been an entrepreneur and small business owner since 2009. She's an incredibly talented photographer, she's owned a clothing store, and most recently she became a realtor and joined 605 Real Estate here in Sioux Falls. Mike's background is equally diverse. He served in the United States Air Force and worked in financial services before devoting his time and energy focused on improving the lives of aging Americans. In 2014, Mike pioneered Prosperous Home Health, a home healthcare provider, and more recently, Prosperous Robotics. And if that wasn't enough, Mike is also the CEO of Light Run, a company focused on serving the aging population and veterans who need assistive technology to live more fulfilling lives. Mike and Karen are high school sweethearts with two growing kids and a dog. I hope you enjoy my conversation with Mike and Karen. All right guys, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for joining me.- Thanks for having us, Adam.- Yes, good to have you on here. Now this episode's going to go live in January, so I got to know, are you guys New Year's resolution people or no?- I am not.- No?- We-- Oh, do you want me to go?- Yep.- Perfect. I think you should have a resolution all year round. You should always have goals. I'm a strong believer in goals. And so, you know, at the beginning of the year, sure, just kind of looking over what you want for the year, where you're going finances and personal and work and you know, all of that. But yeah, I don't know. I think there's a lot of emphasis on just one time a year. But I think you have to reevaluate that.- Sure, you're just going to stay awesome again next year?- There you go, perfect, always.- Yeah, yeah.- Yeah, what's so great about, and what Karen has taught me is really the goal setting. And she's pushed me to write them down. You know, I've always been the type of, kind of keeping goals in my head and be thinking about 'em, but it does make a difference when you write 'em down.- There is a statistic about that too. If you put pen to paper, like there's a percentage higher that it will.- I did the first time last year. And I went two for three and I was pretty excited about it for the first time around. It would always just make me mad every year. The goal set at the beginning of the year because like, I'm a gym goer and so then the gym gets flooded in January and I just get mad about it.- Yes, we felt the same.- Ugh, new year's resolutions are the worst.- So it's actually, what you should do is you should do, if it's a workout resolution, it should be December 1st. It's actually when the gyms are the least popular. So start December 1st, power through all the holiday eatings. And you're already a step ahead cause you're working out and then you're like, well actually maybe I don't want that second cherry pie.'Cause I've been working out already. I have not started.(laughing)- But you're looking great.- All right, well I'm excited to get into your story today, but before we dive into the today part of the story, let's start at the beginning a little bit. So you two met in high school, started dating. So high school sweethearts, cutest ever. We got to know each other in college down at USD. And so you were dating in college, then at some point you decide, hey, I think this is a permanent thing, let's get married. So as part of that marital process, the marriage prep piece, you start talking about money. And that can be an uncomfortable conversation'cause we all bring in baggage and life experience when it comes to money. So when you two started doing that, how did that go for you guys?- Yeah, well I remember, was it getting approved for a house or something? There was some sort of discussion and I have always worked my whole life. Well, I had worked at Yonkers, but to get the discount at Yonkers, you had to have a credit card. And as a, you know, 18 to 22 year old, that was really fun. And so when we did, I think it was getting approved for a house. So I mean, we were engaged and I think we knew that was the next step for us too. But it was finding out that I had, was it a $2,500 credit card at Yonkers?- I think that as your credit, but your balance was 1500.- There you go, there go.- More specifically.- If I remember correctly.- And you would because you paid it off.- Because I paid it off the next day. And so I remember her dad telling me, well, we're so happy for you to join this family and I'm so happy for you to participate in Karen's credit card debt. I mean, it was 1500. But it is, you know, which, it's difficult being female and that age. And clothes are expensive and, you know, she was working-- Working for the money.- Working for those clothes. And so I get it, it's difficult. So I said Dave, her dad. I'm right on top of it. And I paid it off the next day and I said, here's the deal, Karen. We're we're not going to do that. Credit cards are the worst. We're just going to, if we have the money, we'll spend it through a debit card instead of a credit card. And what I think what we ended up doing is she convinced me, you know, this discount at Yonkers is,(laughing) it's huge. And so we'd work out, okay, let's just do automatic payments, you know, and get that all set up. That was our first journey into my hatred for credit cards. And it really stems from growing up in a single family household. My mom worked all the time as a nurse. But just you know, it just didn't add up, you know, for what she wanted to provide my brother and I seemed like she was just always a little short. And then she got into credit cards and it just kind of snowballed into, you know, a financial position that she didn't want to be in, especially after I was graduating high school. You know, this is kind of her time to, you know, spend those funds on her and improve her life. And it just had snowballed to the effect and it really created that hatred of credit card and debt. And especially interest rates.- Well yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, you brought that into the marriage. And at that point, so you guys have a little bit unique, sometimes when I talk to married couples, a lot of times everything is combined. And for you guys, you've separated things out a little bit and some of that you have to because you have business accounts and things like that. Did you always plan to have somewhat separate accounts or was that because of the credit card? Like how did that decision go?- You know, I don't know if we ever really, like, if it was specifically planned that way, but like, I grew up again working all the time too. And really you too, like he went to the military early on and stuff. But I do, I think that we always just had our separate accounts, and then we knew, you know, mortgage and bills and things like that. We had a joint account for that. But like, we still always had our own separate one feeling like, you know, we knew what was going into it and if you had anything extra, it was kind of your money too if you didn't need it for the us money.- So that structure hasn't ever caused you any issues?- No issues, but do you want to delve into 2020? Just right off the bat?- Let's, we'll pause there.- Okay, I was like well (laughing).- So maybe, maybe.- Yeah.- So it still goes on now, we still have our joint accounts, we still have our individual accounts, but my, again, my individual accounts aren't necessarily personal, it's mostly business. And then we have our joint. But it does, the nice thing about having individual accounts for one is if you're buying a gift for your wife, she doesn't know.- That's hard to hide, yeah, with joint accounts.- And, you know, I think there's sometimes like expenses that Karen has to pay for that I don't have to like clothes or, you know.- Which is true, 'cause you don't wear any.(laughing)- I'm completely naked.- Yeah, that's right.- This is my one pair. And so I think it makes a lot of sense to do it that way'cause we have different personal expenses.- How do you two talk about money? Do you have budget meetings? Do you rely on apps? Do you not talk about money ever?- We definitely talk about money. I think every household should. I think for us more, and I'll talk recent, more than anything. I mean for us it's now knowing what we have filtering into our accounts. Whether that be personal, business, everything. And then what is going to be filtered into the joint account. You know, to cover all of that. We're at an age where we like a little cushion. You know, I mean I feel like that is where our economy is where we just need to feel that security a little bit more. So just, you know, itemizing all of, like if there is a bigger bill coming up or something like that, kids in braces, we now have two kids in braces. I think just talking about more what is upcoming and kind of prepping for anything like that, you know, any of the expenses.- So as we sit here today, both of you are entrepreneurs. Small business owners, living a dream that you've had for a while. But it wasn't always that way when you came out of college, you took what I guess I'd consider kind of more traditional roles where you had salary and benefits, but then at some point that changed. When did that change and why?- Yep, so, I was like, I'll talk first'cause I went off on my own first. I worked at the Convention and Visitors Bureau here in Sioux Falls after college. Awesome place, loved that experience. Worked there for a few years and then we had our first son, Max. And you know, after having him, I think the realization in that particular job was 40 plus hours, you know, and it was events of Sioux Falls and all the fun stuff. But as soon as you start to build a family, that becomes a little bit of an issue too. So Mike and I kind of sat down and I had done photography on the side along the way and we talked about money and if we'd be able to make it work if I left that job and pursued photography on my own, knowing that that first year might be rough and we, you know, could we cover it? So at that point, that was a decision that Mike thought was important too. And that I could have a little more flexibility staying at home with Max and it just worked out. And at that point, I think that's really in our marriage when we started this, I don't know what you would call it, like a, somebody picks up the strings at different times during-- Yin and a yang.- A yin and a yang, yup.- That's the magic of your story. I mean that's really the one of the main reasons why I wanted you two to be on today. Because just talking with you in the past, especially the last couple years, seems from the outside looking in like you both were very intentional about saying, okay, now it's your time to go build this thing or to take a step back or whatever it is, and I'll handle the other stuff. Whether that be, you know, the stuff at home with kids, doing pickups and drop offs and things like that and then kind of going back and forth. Was it as intentional as it seems, at least to me?- Most of the time, yeah. I mean there was maybe one or two in there that was like, oh crap, well I will pick it up now.- Yeah I think-- For the majority.- Yeah I think one of the things when she convinced me when we got married to stay in Sioux Falls. You know, 'cause I had some pretty good job opportunities. One of them in Chicago. Chicago people love Polish people.(laughing)- Yeah, they do! A whole neighborhood.(laughing)- Yeah, I walked into Chicago and just felt like people were just clapping, I don't know. But I couldn't convince Karen to move there. And, you know, the plan was that to move back to her hometown, move to Sioux Falls and her parents were here, my mom was here, and that we were going to, you know, be the lifetime Sioux Falls-ers. Which when that, when she sold it and told me that that's what we were going to do, you know, I kind of changed my mindset of, you know, I've always had that entrepreneur spirit. But I think now I thought this is the opportunity to really grasp that. Now whether it's me that starts the entrepreneurial journey first, or Karen, I knew both of us were going to be successful in doing it because just of our passions and we want to help others, and we knew that the universe would react positively back to us. And the fact of having those sets of grandparents. Now, even though my mom passed away early, before our son being born, but having those grandparents, having her parents there dramatically helped our ability to do that where Karen can, you know, work at evening, weekends, and we're still taken care of because of the support of her parents.- Yeah, it's definitely a community and everybody knows that, you know, just having a family, it takes the town.- Yeah, well that was one of the reasons why we moved back to Sioux Falls too, is having that family around, that support system. Not just for the relationship side of things too, but also what helps Diane and my marriage to be able to spend more time together, have a babysitter, and that's been life-changing for us. So I totally get that.- It is so huge and I try to tell people, especially my friends that don't live in Sioux Falls. And so, you know, some of them are not, you know, deciding to have families, but some of them that are, you know, I always, you know, do those slow, I don't, I don't try to convince 'em now, during this week in December, to move back to Sioux Falls. But it is, to have that option, grandparents close by, and now that I take care of the elderly population, I see how important that is. And my grandma, I always tell people, I was my grandma's number one. And that has, you know, it's lived on through me this whole time of just that feeling of that connection to grandma and our kids both have that. Which you just can't beat.- No you can't. What's also really cool about your story to me is, you know, we live in sometimes pretty selfish culture and it can be all about us all the time. And when you're married or when you're really committed a relationship, sometimes it can't be just about you, it's got to be about the other person. What's been fun about you two is the way you've celebrated each other as you've kind of gone down the entrepreneurial and business owner tracks and to say, you know, you've got this and I'm going to support you now and my time will be later. And that I think really happened with Mike too. So Karen, you got to go first creating your business and scratching that itch. And Mike, I'm sure during that time, like you were ready to go too, but you didn't. Like you waited. So why was that and and was that hard for you?- Well, I got to jump into it with Karen. You know, I got to help her on the business side of photography and how that is built out. Now she didn't necessarily listen to,(laughing) any business knowledge that I had.- Yeah, yeah, I was in business class with you. Yeah, I can respect her decision.(laughing)- So, you know, I got to jump in it right away. And I always thought, Karen is a better business owner, I think entrepreneur than I am because of her ability to, she's much more open than I am. You know, we're both social introverts. And you put us in a crowd of people making small talk and you won't find us there very well.- Yeah, you'll be in the corner with me.- Yeah, yes, exactly. (laughing)- We'll be in a corner with you or we'll go say hi to everybody and just-- And we'll be gone.- Yeah, exactly.- But Karen has always been very good at just starting conversations with people. And I think that's so important in small business is that, and she's had success with that for the last 15 years of just making small talk and asking how people are doing during the day and how she could maybe help them have a better day. And so to be able to, kind of help her in the background, be that support person entrepreneurial wise was awesome. But I also realized that I didn't necessarily know what I wanted to do. Now I was working with a bunch of business owners as a financial advisor and structuring that, and I kind of got to live vicariously through them and their success, but I didn't necessarily know what I wanted to do. And, and it really took, you know, my mom passing away, she was a nurse and she wanted me, she's like, Michael, your future is taking care of the elderly population. And I always fought against it-- That's powerful.- I always fought against it.'Cause growing up being a single mom, when I wanted to see my mom, I was going to the VA or I was going to a nursing home that she was at. And I'd hang out with vets and I'd call bingo and I'd play cribbage. And it's really kind of where I got my sense of humor is because it was the first population of people that would laugh at me, that thought I was funny. And I always loved it, but I just thought of it as a hobby and I saw how hard my mom worked and I was like, I don't want to do that. And it took her, you know, passing away and her saying that to me and then what really shoved me over the edge and said, Hey Michael, you're ready, you got to do this is when my older brother died in a car accident. And that's when it was, you know, Karen was three to four years, three years in her business. And so we kind of had planned at that point, alright, I'm going to start making some moves here, switch to long-term care. And at some point down the road, I'll be going off on my own. And so we kind of knew that was down the road and we could prepare for it and save up for it. And so I knew I'm going to give it my all and help Karen be successful just knowing that it'll all come back when I'm ready.- Yeah, when you did make that call, what impact did that have on your family?- So it was actually easier.- Okay, interesting.- When we both jumped into business ownership, it was easier because neither of us was set to a specific schedule. And so, you know, there was, you know, I'd be seeing clients as a caregiver throughout the day, in the evenings and in overnights. But I usually would know, you know, within an amount of time that we could all figure it out, our schedules. And so basically at that point it was just Karen and I's schedule with her parents as our backup.- Yes, and that's where I was going to go is like it brings back that community. And at the time, my dad has since passed, but at the time it was my dad and my mom both retired, and they really took a lot of the load off of us too. I remember at one point when we, I don't know, we had probably been working 50 hours a week and both of them, my parents were divorced, but both of them had facilitated throughout the week some meals and laundry. And I know that sounds like very spoiled, but it helped us at that time. Through what we needed to get through to get, you know, have both of us be successful too. So just picking up that weight, different sections.- Yeah, well you know that's the thing about small business ownership and being an entrepreneur, it's so much more than just an eight to five.- Oh yeah.- And it can be all consuming, and especially if you are both doing it. That's a tough balance to strike. And that does create a lot of stress too. And how have you two managed that stress in your lives? Being a business owner and being a breadwinner and not having that necessarily quote unquote paycheck all the time, that you've got to go get that. How have you kept that and kept your marriage together through all that frankly?- We're still together. I think for us, and Mike can kind of touch to this too, but for me, well I'll speak for me. In our household, you know, probably each week we kind of take a little moment maybe Sunday night with the kids'cause they're a little, they're old enough now, they're 13 and 10 and they're old enough to help. And to learn how to help too. We kind of just take a tally. Okay, what's the week look like for everybody? Dad's got a big proposal on Wednesday. Mom's got a closing on Thursday. Sophia's got robotics Monday and Thursday and Max has football. You know, so we kind of take that tally. And then we divide and conquer. Okay, who's got what. Okay, Tuesday I'm free for dinner so I'll cook dinner that night. You know, Mike's got a big proposal Wednesday, Sophia, do you want to cook dinner? Yeah, they like love cooking dinner. They think it's so fun when they get to. It might be ramen, but you know what? It's a hot meal and they think that's exciting.- That's some damn good ramen.- No judgment.- I'm like, it is what it is. Ramen topped with, you know, whatever.- yeah, no judgment.- I think for us right now, like if you're talking current in our life, that is how we facilitate it, is everybody in our family has to take apart. And again, it's nice that the kids are old enough, not that they have too much life and heaviness on them, you know, if they don't want to cook, they don't have to cook. But I think for them, acknowledging that mom and dad are busy, they both know we have businesses, you know, and that night it might help us a ton if somebody, you know, picked up the load.- Yeah so Diane and I, we thought we were pretty smart earlier this year and we hired our older daughter to cook for us.- See!- She did great for about five days. And then the money wasn't good enough to keep her on it. So for a week we thought, hey, we got this life thing down. Not so much back to smoothies.- Try one day, one day, try one day a week. They have to take one day.- So Karen, you had mentioned earlier in our conversation here April of 2020. You want to talk about crappy things. So tell us a little bit about what happened there.- Yep, well we will are probably right in the same ballpark with a lot of entrepreneurs after COVID. You know, you build your business and your life and everything up to where you think that it is or should be and then a pandemic happens. And you know, I feel like that first March when schools closed, I think all of us were in this la la like of, oh well, it's two weeks off. It will be fine, everything will be fine. And I think that's kind of how we took it. We'll go for walks, we'll do this, we'll do whatever. But then April of 2020 came around and I remember Mike was paying overtime to a lot of his staff. And nursing homes weren't letting caregivers in because of COVID. I had at this point transitioned from not doing pictures, which I was thankful that our rent, we had a rent downtown and that had ended April 1st knowing that before COVID happened. So I was transitioning into real estate. So all of a sudden April hits and it's this realization of, he's having to pay all this extra money in payroll, I have nothing coming in, what are we going to do? And I will say April, May, maybe even into June, it was really hard for just us feeling like we worked to this, you know, financial security and we didn't know where we were going to be. We didn't know how we were going to pay our mortgage. You know, and I think at that point, for me, that's where it actually was a blessing because I didn't know how much our mortgage payment was. I didn't know how much utilities were, in our financial status of that. You know, Mike would pay that and I would pay groceries and kids clothing, school, you know, all of that stuff, our travel. And he would take care of, you know, mortgage and bills and utility and all of that stuff. So I had no clue, no clue what anything was. So I think at that point it was really like a come to the table, we need to, you know, we need to itemize every single bill we have. Do we have HBO plus, can we get rid of that? Can we, you know, we've been going to the gym, can we do that at home? Can we, you know, really looking at all of our spending. And for me was eye-opening and a good thing too. But yeah, it's been hard, you know, and I'll tell you that small business owners, if you have friends, give them a hug. Because I mean, we all feel like after 2020 you start to like climb back up the ladder. You get out of it, and then now the economy. You know, I was reading something about, one of my friends who's a cupcake business owner. You know that with the economy, their sugar's gone up, their flour's gone up, you know, so like the same cupcake that they sold, and rent and all of that. So I mean it's, I think that in the world of finance and entrepreneurs, it's just a different world. Because there's not that steady income coming in constantly. Where since then, we've really prepped ourselves in savings. And making sure that that security is there for enough time that it needs to be.- Yeah, so that moment will probably stick with you for a long period of time.- I hope I can shake it, but after talking to you, I don't know if you ever do shake it.(laughing)- Good luck.- Thanks Adam, there goes another two years.- You're probably a lot more resilient than I was.- I don't know, who knows, who knows. But I think, I mean, again, like looking back, is it a good life lesson? Hey, sure, you wish you didn't have to go through it, you know, but like you said, I mean, I hope that I will come out of that scarcity feeling, you know, but I think that that's okay to have a little bit of that too.- So it sounds like one of the big changes, a couple of the big changes that maybe happened was, number one, you got really intentional about expenses and where money was going and why, and is that really something that we value? And then just maybe a little more clarity, a little more transparency about the budgeting process and what that looks like. And now even having more cash cushion than maybe you were before. Yeah, those things give us scars, don't they?- Oh my gosh, yeah.- Yeah.- So financially speaking, at this point in your life, what's most important to you?- I think I go back to security. You know, again, after going through a time like that, like I just want to feel like that will never happen again. You know, and and do you live your life that way, the whole way? No, and that's where I think we have a good balance too, because I know what Mike's going to say and I applaud that. And I think that you do need that yin and the yang going back to it. But you know, us both realizing how we feel about that too. I think that, you know, we'll have that cushion, and I think that that's important still.- Yeah, how about you, Mike?- Yeah, so my big thing now is having that cushion so that I can innovate more. You know, there's-- Which takes money.- Which takes money.- And time, and I will say time. And that is something that again, we still balance.- It takes money, it takes time. You know, being part of all these startups, I've realized it. And especially now that I'm doing a, you know, medical device, two medical device startups, just how important, you know, money and funding is. But, you know, I already have, I have one patent, but I have, you know, six upcoming patents that are all going to need, you know, funding and you know, the money to get 'em to the innovation standpoint where you can commercialize in it and market it. And that's what really drives me more than anything now. And it's from, you know, I've always wanted to help people. But when you get into an innovation, a device that can help millions of people, it's just a whole different level than than just helping that one person. And so it's what drives me. It's what I'm thinking about all the time. But we both know-- And I love that and support it but we, yeah I think that's-- And she feels it, she feels, we're so close to being able to have the opportunity to self-fund a lot of these innovations, 2023 I think is going to be an incredible year for us.- Yeah, the key there for you two is innovation which takes money, and security, which means you hoard a little bit of money.- That's exactly right.- Try to balance those two things. So what advice would you give to your younger selves?- Oh!(laughing) If you had to start this all over again, knowing what you know today. What do you think you'd tell young Mike and Karen?- Oh-- Buckle up.- So like, newlyweds?- I was just going to say, buckle up, buckle in, extra seat belts.- About finances, finances and business.- Okay, I'll go first.- Yeah.- You know, I think we got married so young. I was a day before I turned 23. So that's fairly young. You know, unless we're in the 1930s, that's fairly young. And I think it was, I think we started out with defined roles. Like, I'm going to do this, you're going to do that. And we'll kind of, you know, we'll come together. And it was also, we each kind of had our own friends too that we'd hang out separate from each other. And I think what I would've told myself back then was, Mike, she's your best friend. Just start now. And I would've convinced her, I tried early on to convince her to play golf. And she never would. In fact, her dad got involved, and then she started playing golf. But that's, you know, that's the most golf I play is with Karen. And we truly are best friends. And I think that's, I think when a couple, when a marriage couple can say that, that's when you know you've made it. It's like, I'm going to hang out, I'm hanging out with my best friend tonight. You can't beat that, to hang out with your best friend every night. And lately Karen and I have come to this conclusion that-- Now that our kids don't want to hang out with us as much anymore.- We're getting very close.- We're getting at a different stage in life, I should say that.- We're getting very close where it would be us too. And then we could bring the kids in and like, we're doing this. And now it's like, it's us two and they don't want to hang out with us. So it's like-- What are we going to do tonight?- What do want to do? What makes you happy? You know, what should we do to have fun? Because it's just the two of us now. And, but to have that as a best friend.- And I would probably say, I mean, thank you and you are my best friend too. I will say that first, for me personally, I would tell myself flow, flow with things. Ride it out, you need to let loose just a little bit. I feel like I'm more of just a tight, like, fight or flight, you know, and I'm just ready to like, what's coming the next corner here?- I would've never guessed that.- Yeah, no, that's actually how I-(laughing) But for me, and I'm working on it, I am, that's one of my goals, not a resolution, but one of my goals is to let everybody else kind of be and fill out, you know, fill their own path and what they need to do. I think I like to control things and make sure everybody is happy and everybody's on the right path. And so I think I would just tell my younger self, it will be okay. Like, you can let go a little bit. Let go of that stress and if it doesn't end up going that right way, it's still going to be okay, you know?- Yup, that's great. I think we'll end there. Thank you both for doing this.- Yes, thanks for having us.- I appreciate the heck out of you. Thanks for sharing your story.- Well we appreciate you guys.- And yeah, this is going to be awesome. And for all those entrepreneurs out there, little small business owners, stories like this are important because I think a lot of us see the success stories. And then a lot of us see the ones that don't work out. There's so many people in the middle. That one month or one year is great, and then the next year is a disaster. And that so much of our economy, is those small business owners and those entrepreneurs that we rely upon to keep pushing us forward. So thank you for doing it. I'm excited to see what the next chapter looks like for you and appreciate you being here today. Thanks Adam.- Thanks Adam.- [Adam] I hope you found this helpful. If you did, please subscribe and share with your family or friends. If you have a topic you want us to cover in future episodes, send us a note through our website. And if you're at the point where you want an expert opinion on your finances, reach out and we'd be happy to start a conversation. And remember, any comments, insights, or strategies discussed on this podcast are intended to be general in nature and, therefore, may not be suitable for you in your situation, whatever that may be. Before acting on anything we discussed, please consult with your attorney, CPA, and/or your financial advisor.