How We Money: Second Marriage and Money

Opening a joint account, buying a house together, and doing estate planning all before getting married?! Let’s just say that spouses Jaime and Curtis Taets took a unique approach to merging their finances — but, well, that’s what you have to do when entering a second marriage. Here’s how they money.

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Transcript

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- Blending families and finances in a second marriage. Welcome to "Common Cents on the Prairie™." A podcast dedicated to helping you demystify the sometimes complex topic of money. I'm Adam Cox, head of Wealth Management for The First National Bank in Sioux Falls. We're a community bank based out of South Dakota. In this podcast, we share expert insights from around the country, and stories from our local community, to arm you with the tools you need to make better financial decisions. Because the truth is, the more we talk about this stuff, the better off we're all going to be.[rock music] Welcome to another "How We Money" episode, on the "Common Cents on the Prairie™" podcast. If you've seen this show before, you've likely noticed that we talk about all things related to personal finance, even if the topic isn't the most comfortable. This episode is no different. Today, I'm so excited to be talking with my friends, Jaime and Curt Taets. Like many people, Jaime and Curt were each married previously, before going through a divorce. What's unique about their story, is how, from the very early days of their relationship, they had been so intentional about how they blended their lives, their families, and their finances. Now married for over six years, Jaime and Curt walk us through how they merged their finances, and the keys that have made this union a success. And before you dismiss this episode as only pertaining to those thinking about getting remarried, I can assure you that everyone can learn something from Jaime and Curt's story. What a gift it is to share it. I hope you enjoy my conversation with Jaime and Curt Taets. Jaime and Curt, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining me.- Thanks for having us.- Absolutely.- Perfect. All right, we're going to start this episode where we start every episode. Let's start at the beginning. What was money like for each of you two growing up? Curt, you can start.- All right. Money was tight. It was tough. It was, you know, things were lean. And we didn't have the best of everything. Grew up in a 1,200 square foot house, and I shared a room with my brother. And, honestly, everything seemed great. You know, there were no issues on that. Certainly was, you know, a struggle to find, money goes, we were on a budget. we knew what that was, but it was tough.- Yeah. Jaime, how about you?- For me, it was kind of, we talk about kind of two different tales and it depends on the age. So my mom had me at 17, and so it was just her and I. And she was a single mom. My biological dad is not involved in my life at all, nor did she get any support from him. So I remember moving in with my great-grandmother. We lived with her and she helped take care of me. But to say money was tight was an understatement. My mom put herself through night school, worked a full-time job, and so there wasn't a lot to go around. And then at age five, she remarried, my dad. Who is my dad now. And I remember, like I tell the story that if you asked about one thing in my childhood related to money that I remember, it's Dinty Moore beef stew.[Adam laughing] And some people will probably chuckle, right? But some people know-- Oh, man.- What I'm talking about.- Yeah.- And for us, I knew it was tough when the Dinty Moore came out, and that we all would split that, like for dinner. Just a can of, you know.- Wow.- In my head, I don't remember thinking like we were poor. But when you think back on it, it was every little bit mattered, right? Every dime mattered. And so that was my first, you know, kind of recollection of like, ooh, times must be tough, the Dinty Moore's out.- Yeah. Wow. I do know what you're talking about and I-- There are people listening that know Dinty Moore stew, I guarantee.- Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.- It now.- Yes. As you think back to your childhood, can you think of any other pivotal money moments, good, bad, or indifferent? Curt?- For me, I recall really well at an age where a lot of my friends had name-brand shoes for instance. And Converse was a big name when I was growing up. And I really wanted a pair of Converse. They just were too expensive. Until I found a pair that was on the clearance rack, but they were two sizes too big. I had to talk my mom into letting us still get those because it was, you know, like $7 or something like that back when, I think, you know, we were paying $5 for shoes or something along those lines from Zayres. Or, you know, whoever the discount store was, and that it was a big deal. And I had those, I probably finally grew into them. But, I mean, I remember getting like shoe polish, because they were white shoes, to polish them back up so they looked new again, because that's all I had for the year. I mean, you got-- Yeah.- One pair of shoes for the year, and that's what you wore. So, to me that was a big deal, and recalling that I wanted to get a job. I wanted to make money so I could get my own things like that. So that drove me to, at an early age of 11, to get a paper route, just so I could make money. And, you know, have some of my own money to do those things. Because it wasn't getting handed out to me by any means.- [Adam] Yeah.- And if you went to our mudroom right now, it looks like a shoe store bomb went off, so make you happy?[Adam laughing]- Our kids don't have the same need of the shoes.- Our kids don't have the same issue, just to be clear.- My how things have changed.- Yeah.- It has, right?[Adam chuckling]- Jaime, how about you?- Yeah, for me it's very vividly. It's probably late, mid, late elementary school. And after church on Sundays, my uncle kind of lived right near the church in this small town, and we used to always go to his house. And I remember being there, and you know, we'd leave by like noon on Sundays. And my parents said,"Well, we have a surprise," right, on a Sunday. And nothing usually really happened on Sunday afternoons. And they said, "We're going to go buy you a bike."- Hm.- And I just remember thinking like, what? Like this was a huge deal. Because up until that point, I hadn't had like a real like big kid bike. And I remember going to the store, I can tell you every aspect of that bike, still to this day I can see it. But I remember in that moment too, also thinking this is a big deal.- Yeah.- Like for my parents it's a big deal, not just for me to have the bike. But I knew, it was like I was almost conscious as a child of like money, but I wasn't conscious of it. But I knew it was a big deal.- Yeah.- And so that was a pretty pivotal moment. There was one other moment where I remember just getting a toy for no reason, but it was something I really wanted and my mom just surprised me with it. And I just remember thinking, wow. Like this is a splurge, right? For them.- Yeah.- Like this is something kind of out of the ordinary.- [Adam] Yeah. And so, it was that consciousness of money with those certain things I think really early on.- Hm. You know, Curt, for what it's worth, I have a daughter that wears white shoes all the time, and she always has the white shoe polish out. So some things haven't changed.- Well, at least they perfected it. I think with mine, it was like a bright fluorescent color, so.[Adam and Curt laughing] They're much better now.- Yeah exactly.- I'm not sure our kids have the same ethic of like keeping their white shoes clean.- [Curt] No.- No white shoes- No.- Look white anymore down there.[Adam laughing]- So as you were growing up, I'm always curious to know this about families because every family's different. Was money talked about openly in your families?- Yeah. This is an interesting question, because like I said, I was conscious of it, but I don't remember it being like the focal point of conversation. My dad and mom both worked, before my mom got her degree, they both worked at the same manufacturing plant. And they were both laid off in the same year. And I do vividly remember that, because I was kind of a latchkey kid. I remember both of them being home, and it was like, wait a minute, why are they both here? Right? That's not normal. You know, I remember my dad always driving a beater car, but never really talking about why. I was so embarrassed when he picked me up from school in like the beater that he took, you know, to work. But what was interesting about me growing up is my mom got a degree in accounting and then eventually became a financial advisor.- Mm.- Which is really where the money story changed pretty dramatically for our family.- Yeah.- So she was an entrepreneur, had her own kind of practice. And it wasn't until that, that I really start remembering, you know, that was kind of late middle school, high school, remember her talking about money. And one of the things she drilled into me was, you can have everything, you just can't have it all at once, and you can't have it all now. It was kind of that she wanted to raise me in a way of like, don't want for everything that everyone else has. You know, want for things later in life, right? Like the nice car. Because if you have it all now, what do you have to look forward to down the road?- Yeah. Well she had such an incredible perspective on that too, As she moved into being a financial advisor, she got to see not only her own financial life and situation, but that of a lot of other people's. So, wow, what an incredible experience to reflect back on your family.- Yeah.- Yeah, how about you Curt?- And then for mine, I mean, money was always a, it was the only reason my parents ever got into a fight that I ever saw. It was just around money. So, for me, at that an early age, it was impressed upon me that, you know, don't have those financial woes. And my dad had my mom on a budget, and she really didn't know, you know, where the, you know, what was coming in. She just knew what she had for a budget, and that's what she kept to. And if she went over that budget then it was, you know, it was an argument. Like, why'd you go over this? And I recall even like, you know, needing to wait to buy, you know, shoes or something like that. So I'd like duct tape my shoes together. They were like, it needs to be next paycheck that, you know, we'll go shopping for that. And that wasn't to get the nice ones, that was to get the ones from Zayres.- [Adam] Yeah, sure.- But I do recall early on when I did get my first job out of college and you're not making great, you're just getting by on that monthly basis. When I got that first raise and I was talking about like, I'm going to go buy a car. Because I had a jalopy, at best, that I bought from a junkyard, and had to re-accordion back out just so it would close the hatchback on it. So I wanted to get a new car, and my dad's like,"No, put everything away into retirement." And he said, "Put that raise amount every year, until you're at the max." And so that's what I did. So it was four years later before I got a car, but it was the smartest thing to do. And now like, you know, maxing out the 401k on a yearly basis is the first thing we plan to do.- [Adam] Yeah.- So, you know, pay yourself for that later on. And he did that and he, you know, ended up retiring at an early age as a result of it.- Oh, awesome. Thank you for sharing that story. So the reason why we're doing this episode today, is really to highlight something that not a lot of people talk about. A lot of people get divorced, and a lot of people get remarried. And the reality is, that it is really, really difficult, to not only merge your lives, but to merge your financial lives when you're getting remarried. And that's something a lot of couples struggle with. And so when you're young, we know it's hard enough to combine your financial lives when you don't have anything. You don't have any kids, you barely have jobs. Like it's not a big deal and it's still an issue.- Right.- And so we're going to talk through the logistics today of how you two did it. Which is really, really interesting to me, and which is what drew me to your story. But, before we do that, we're going to start with the fun stuff. How did the two of you meet?- Playing sand volleyball.- [laughing] Like everybody meets, obviously.- Yeah, yeah.- Right.- The old-fashioned way.- And we still play every now and then.- Yeah.- It's a little harder the older you get. But yeah, that's how we met. Athletic things is kind of our thing, I guess.- Yeah, yeah, absolutely.- There you go.- Yeah.- I love that. So as you started dating, how quickly did you start talking about money, and how did those conversations go?- I guess I don't remember.- I'll go first.- Okay, all right.- Yeah.- He's smiling so he has a better story here.- He remembers.- So, you know, in the very beginning, you know, it's the gentlemanly thing to pay for the meals.- [Adam] Sure.- So we would go out, and I did, you know, more than my fair share. And then Jaime being phenomenal's like,"No, I'll get this one, I'll get this one."- [Adam] Yeah.- So doing those on a regular basis, there was certainly a sense, on both of ours that, you know, we're going to go do something and it shouldn't be my responsibility, it shouldn't be hers, that it's a joint shared thing. So when we got more serious in our relationship, we decided it was, you know, kind of had a conversation to open up a joint savings account. That, on a monthly basis, we both put a set amount in there, and that's what we paid everything-- Our fun money, yeah.- The things we did together from.- Yeah, yeah.- So, which felt really great that it wasn't one-sided for either of us in that regard.- [Adam] Yeah.- So that's what started that portion of it for us.- Okay.- Yeah.- Well, as we talked the first time about this, there were kind of three big things that I pulled away from your story that I thought were really interesting, and that was one of them. And actually all three of these things happened before you got married, which is really interesting. The first was the idea of setting up a joint account before you got married. So, obviously, the logistics of doing that as you're dating and trying to share expenses, are obvious. But what else did you learn through that process of kind of dipping your toe in the water and combining finances for the first time, even on a smaller scale?- I think it was a little bit of, you know, as people who have gone through a divorce, a divorce can be financially devastating. Right?- Yeah.- To a lot of people. It really changes your retirement plan, right? When you thought you were going to retire, there's just so many things. And, I'll admit, even growing up with a mom who was a financial advisor, she'd kill me. But, I mean, I didn't balance a checkbook and I didn't live in a budget. And, you know, we lived within our means, right, very much. And we put money away, and so we never really worried about it. And so, I think that was the biggest adjustment for me. With Curt was like, oh, we're going to like budget and we're going to like talk about where the money goes and what it is. And I'm grateful for that. I really am, because it was never a shame, or we can't do this or we can't do that. It was a very logical, because he's very logical, conversation. And I think it just started me on this path of kind of understanding that there's a lot of planfulness you can do that makes you feel very safe.- [Adam] Yep.- And the joint checking account or savings account was a very initial thing and a small thing. But it made me feel secure that we both kind of were okay talking about money, I guess.- [Adam] Yeah.- Well, and also it was very important to me to build up a savings net. So something that we had that, she had started her own business, that she could at some point say no to somebody. It's like, I don't need this to make, we've got the money in the bank. You can say no to this person, we'll be fine.- Right.- So I wanted to get that as, you know, just security so that we could have one year of one of us not working. And none of our bills or our concerns change, and you could still march forward on that. So, as we were putting together that budget, then you're putting together like what has to go out, you know, the house, the insurance, cars, kids-- Right.- All that sort of stuff, medical. And then you're left, you know, with okay, what's left over and what of that do we going to use to, oh, we can go out for dinner how many times a month, and spend X on a dinner. And because we also want to get to putting this amount away. And when you first see it, you're like, oh, we're going to put this amount away, it's going to be great. And you get down to adding those other things up and you go, oh, that's not near enough.- Yeah.- That you need to be putting away to-- Yeah.- Right.- You know, ultimately, you know, retire one day. And you feel, you know, comfortable in retirement. So, you start scaling back when you can, and to say, you know, don't need this. Let's, you know, we're fine with what this is here.- [Adam] Yeah.- And, I think, you're probably going to say one of the steps, right, was we bought a house, and went into a mortgage before we were married.- Yeah.- And so a lot of this budgeting stuff came up because that's a really big decision. And we have a family of six, so it was not a small house.- Right.- That we bought, right?- Yep.- To blend our families. And, you know, everything he's talking about, I'm just smiling because at first I was like, poke my eyeballs out. Like why are we talking about this level of budget? Right, I'd never done this before.- [Adam] Yeah.- And never really worried about it. But what I started to realize was his, and it's probably because I'm an entrepreneur, I'm a little more, I take risks, right? And he's not as much, which is a good yin and yang. But he was so focused on how much money we had put away to cover if someone got sick. If, you know, my business took a turn, if he lost his job, if whatever it was. All these things that I was like, ah, we'll be fine. And he was the one that really got us into the financial state we're in by just being like, let's just tighten up here and there, right?- [Adam] Yeah.- Put a little more away. And that's that safety and security as an entrepreneur now looking back, right?- Yeah, yep.- Over the last nine years, I can now make the decisions that he's talking about, and make the big decisions in my business because he's kind of given us that kind of steady foundation.- Yeah.- To be able to build that on.- You mentioned to me before that you found a lot of security and you just mentioned safety in that. I think a lot of couples, when they have conversations like this, because everybody approaches money differently, and you two are no different to that. You're no exception. And so that can create conflict. But it sounds like the two of you, you really respected each other, and the way you approached money, and made it work. Was that a big thing? Was that something you talked about? Like how did you arrive at this place where it was like, we're cool with each other approaching money differently and it works for us?- I don't remember like one specific moment. But, just to be clear, I think in full transparency, it's not like all of these conversations were easy conversations-- [Curt] No.- Right out of the gate.- Right.- He agrees.- They were not.- They were hard because it was like, well I enjoyed that. Right? Or I'd rather put more here. And so there was a lot of negotiation, and kind of getting to something compromise, I guess.- Right.- And it's constant. It's not like it's, I mean, I'd like to say we're not quite as good at the budgeting. We put a lot more away, but we're in a different life stage, right, so we're super comfortable. And so I think because of what, you know, Curt was really adamant about, it kind of gave us that foundation that now have we ever, I don't remember a time like arguing about money.- I'd even go further to say Jaime's switched to the other side to push us to put more away.- Interesting.- To say, no, no, no, let's do this instead. Let's put this money away. Or let's apply it towards this because we have higher interest on that, and get that paid down or off.- Right.- So she's gone to the other side on that, so.- Look at what you've done.- Not that I've gone crazy.- The dark side.- My silly things I want-- That's the dark side.- Like jet ski or something.- [chuckling] Yeah.- He has certain things, and I think in any marriage, his stuff tends to be bigger ticket items.- Yep.- But he's not the guy that's going to go shopping every week, right?- Yep.- And so, for me, I don't want the big ticket items. I want the stuff kind of just ongoing. And so I think we just respect each other for when those things come up. We kind of know that there's been some collateral put, right? Things have been kind of put aside to be able to prepare for that.- Yeah. Diane and I are the same way. I'm more big ticket stuff randomly, and she's not, so that's fine, it works. So you joined checking, savings, then you moved into a house together. The third thing you did before marriage, which I found to be the most fascinating, was you went through the estate planning process together. Why did you decide to do that?- I know, it seems crazy now. It didn't seem crazy to us when we were doing it.- Well and this is before we got married even.- Yeah.- And so it was a little bit on the, you know, part of this is just because we've already gone through a divorce, and now we're remarried. But we had to close off what we had done before, because everything was left to the other person. So part of this was, as we, if something happened, didn't want to have the house to go in limbo, that we were buying together.- Right.- That we need to have something in place to make sure the other person is comfortable with that. So that kind of drove us to doing that. But there were, we had two separate statements. I mean they, you know, joined since then more so.- Yeah.- But, yeah, we went through all that just to make sure the other one was fine in an event-- [Adam] Yeah.- That a bus hit one of us.- Yeah.- And I had always had, we'd both had wills in the past, but we'd never had full estate plans.- [Adam] Okay.- So this was the first time going through that with both of us. And part of it was, you know, Curt is older than me, so he had more earning years. He came in with more kind of 401k type retirement plan funds. And it was this discussion around, right, we're both bringing in two kids, two each. And if something happens, and we really put it in timeframes, if something, we built the house, we wanted the other person to kind of make sure they could stay in the house, you know, as much normalcy as possible if something were to happen.- [Adam] Sure.- But it was also like, we're not even married yet, so if something happens next week, it's not going to me, it's going to your kids, right? Anything pre-marriage, because we weren't even married yet. Like we weren't kind of at that stage. And what we committed, at that point, was then every five years, and we've stuck to that, we've done it, we've done a refresh of it. Because as we get further and further along in our relationship and our marriage-- [Adam] Yep.- Things might change, right, in how we feel about what's going to be left to a trust, and what's going to be left to the other person. And so we're just being very honest, and kind of open about that process progressing as we go. You know, our jobs look very different. We've had to have conversations about my business.- Yep.- And now what happens to my business, if something happens to me. Curt steps in to run it, my kids have ownership, right? So, like we've had to think through a lot of hard things that most people wouldn't get to-- [Adam] Yeah.- Until everything hits the fan.- Yeah.- Which is then you're leaving it to your family and a bunch of drama, at that point.- Having settled hundreds of estates in my career, I've never seen any drama. No, not once.- No, you haven't? That's amazing. I don't know-- Nope, never happens.- What you're doing, but.- Yeah.- Yeah.- Never happens. Well, I think the other thing that happens, for you guys, and you should be, you're poster children for how estate planning should work, by revisiting it at different stage gates of life. Your kids get older and they go on their own, and they become independent. And so then you're not thinking of their guardianship, and those sorts of issues as well. So they're very, very healthy.- And one thing I just will add to going through that process. So it wasn't like, this is going to be exciting, like talking about if you die and if I die and, right? Well, I want to keep my money from my kid, right? And there were tough conversations, but having someone facilitate you through that.- Yeah.- But what it also did is, instead of it being a negative thing, like I remember us sitting with a lawyer and Curt saying,"You know, I just want to make sure she's taken care of."- Mm.- "If something happens to me." And that's a whole different level of love and commitment really.- Yeah.- And so, I share that because people think it's such a negative thing, and there can be a lot of positive and caring about each other that comes out of that conversation. And that's really what it's about. Any kind of a financial plan, and an estate plan, is making sure your family's not left in limbo. Or can't pay off, you know, a mortgage, and be able to stay in a house. And, I think, you've got to get through the hard stuff because it's worth it, right? To have that safety and security.- Yes, it is. Good for you. So as you sit here and reflect on your journey together, are there a few things you can point to that have made this a success financially?- I think the first one was having the guts to combine everything.- Yeah.- We still have people we know that are divorced and remarried and have separate checking accounts and-- Yep.- Again, to each their own, right? But we have talked about it like, how in the world does that work? From a trust standpoint, from a, typically you're not exactly the same income earners, right, and that kind of stuff. Like you're either, for us, you're either in or you're not. Right?- Yeah.- So that, I think, was the biggest thing. And then we had to have help. You and your team have been a help. Our estate planner. You have to have other people that help us kind of define our philosophy. Because we each came in with separate philosophies on debt.- Right.- How much to put away.- And the other side too, on working with you guys, is you've had to have this come across before. This is not the first time this has happened.- Right.- You know, we've done some of the groundwork of doing that. Like, so that brought us mentally to where we need to be-- Yeah.- To where we're accepting of the other person's opinions, thoughts, and how they see money. But, you know, you get to certain things where you agree on like, well, when are we going to retire? What would that look like? So if we want that to happen, then this is what we need to do now.- Right.- So, you know, taking some, you know, short-term pain for the long-term gain.- Not a lot of couples have done the work that you've done to think about these things beforehand. They just kind of, life gets busy, right? We all get busy. You have careers, you have kids, you have other responsibilities. You're now taking care of aging parents, like all of it. How important has it been for you two to sit down and talk through, to dream together and talk about goals and alignment around a vision for your future?- It's been super important. And again, I use the lens of I'm an entrepreneur.- Yeah.- And so I'm taking risk every time I hire someone, right? It's a really big financial commitment every time we, anything that we do. And there's no way I could have built my business to the level that I've built it if we didn't have the safety net, right? And kind of that clarity together of like, go do it, go take the risk. Like, because it's going to benefit us in the long run. But if we didn't have kind of this strong financial foundation, I don't think I'd be able to do it, at least and not sleep at night.- [Adam] Yeah.- And so I do both very well. I make the decision to take the risk and sleep at night very well. And so I'm super appreciative of that. It's something that, it is such a source of stress that I don't even think people relate it to stress and what it's actually physically doing to you or your relationship.- Yeah.- And so I'm just, yeah, I'm grateful.- I think some of it too is we haven't set our lifestyle out to be, you know, what we can do as opposed to what's really good and allows us to keep putting that away. And the larger that account gets, the further that stress of what Jaime's talking about that we don't experience.- [Adam] Yeah.- So that's been very helpful for me.- But we're thinking, and your team has been a help with this, Adam, too, is we're thinking longer term and we're not making finite plans, but like a second home. We're constantly, we know where we want it to be. We're kind of doing our research. And it'll be five years from now.- Yeah.- But we know where we want it, right, And we know we can do it. We already could do it now, but we're like, nope. Let's, you know, we want to get to a little different stage and let's wait. So, I think, it is helping us dream about the big trips or the things we want to do before we, you know, can't do them anymore.- Yep.- Yeah.- I think is a big decision and discussion for us.- Yeah. So let's end on this one. You've been through a lot. You've gone through an incredible process and you have such a great lens that you look at this stuff through. So first of all, you need to be commended for that. But what advice would you give to someone who's listening to this, who maybe has gone through a divorce and is thinking about stepping back into a committed relationship, where would you lead them?- I think the smartest thing we did was doing the checking account. I think from my standpoint, that, and we picked an amount that we put in on a monthly basis and that's what we kept to our spending to. And it kept it very, because we were committed at that point. It kept it very fair. The other things that you did that, you know, I never questioned her on what shoes, or jacket, or whatever, like that didn't come. And same with me, I had whatever sporting goods things I wanted to get, new shoes shoes.[all laughing] That we didn't question on. And as we got closer to doing that then, you know, we did have a threshold where you say, let's discuss this amount with the other person.- [Adam] Sure.- That if you want to go get this and what makes sense. So I thought that was a real good game changer for us. It gave me a sense of that we're both in this together.- Yeah.- I think the words that come to mind for me is respect and trust. So by doing that simple account, it made us trust each other. He didn't necessarily know everything else, at that point, that I was spending money on or, you know. But then when we moved into the house, then it was, you know, or got close to that decision, then it just increases the trust. And, you know, more money came together. And it was just this kind of, it didn't feel, it felt right. We just did it at the right pace. But the other thing that I think is really important is we had different philosophical and money backgrounds coming in, but it didn't have to, like, we didn't have to both believe the exact same thing or have the exact same values around money coming in. We were just willing to talk about it, right? Before it got to a point where we needed to make a big purchase or we, right, something got stressful. I think it's the proactiveness. And there are a lot of partners, like you guys, that can help people navigate some of that stuff too.- Yeah.- But I think, you know, being willing to talk about money is a skill we all need in relationships. Whether it's with our kids, with our spouse, with our aging parents. As the money is changing.- Yep.- And, you know, throughout your life, it's the hardest thing, but it is very rewarding when you do it.- Yeah.- I think in the rewarding side it is, it's like there's a comfort level, there's an ease. There's no stress after you go through that, and you talk about that. And I recall Jaime even saying the same,"Hey, this Saturday, it's not going to be a fun conversation. We got to talk about, you know, what we're going to do with our, you know, estate planning." And you're even talking about, you know, when one of you passes, like what happens there.- Yeah, it's not a pick-me-up conversation.- So it's not a great conversation to give out. Me being older, it's likely I'll get there before she does.- Yeah.- So it's like, oh, even more morbid for me.- Yeah.- But you have those afterwards, you know, and you agree on it. Like, this was good to cover.- Yeah. Makes a lot of sense.- Yeah.- Awesome. Let's leave that there. I want to thank you too for sharing your story. This is not something that people talk about very often. It's not easy to talk about money and marriage to begin with. And like I said earlier, it's hard enough to deal with this stuff when you're young and you don't have anything. But it's something entirely different when you're a little bit later in life. You've got established careers, you've got families, you've got obligations to other people. And the approach that you took, while someone may listen to this and say, well I wouldn't do things that way, that's totally fine. This is what worked for you guys. And that's awesome and there's value in that. I know people are going to, to learn something from this episode. So thank you so much for doing this. Thanks for being here.- Absolutely.- And I really appreciate you.- Thanks for inviting us.- Thanks, Adam.- Thanks, Adam.- Yep. I hope you found this helpful. If you did, please subscribe and share with your family or friends. If you have a topic you want us to cover in future episodes, send us a note through our website. And if you're at the point where you want an expert opinion on your finances, reach out and we'd be happy to start a conversation. And remember, any comments, insights, or strategies discussed on this podcast are intended to be general in nature and, therefore, may not be suitable for you and your situation, whatever that may be. Before acting on anything we discuss, please consult with your attorney, CPA, and/or your financial advisor.