Advice to Advance Your Sports Broadcasting Career with Jason Barrett of Barrett Sports Media

Jason Barrett of Barrett Sports Media joins the show to discuss many topics, including:
- How the sports talk industry has handled the COVID-19 pandemic
- His 25 year rise from aspiring sports broadcaster to eventual Program Director in Top-20 markets
- The growth of Barrett Sports Media, including the annual BSM Summit and the brand new Membership Directory for sportscasters who want to get their air check in front of Program Directors
- Advice for aspiring sports broadcasters to advance a career in this crazy industry
- The things that turn him off as a Program Director
- The best advice he has for aspiring sports broadcasters who want to build a long-lasting career
- Much more!

As an aspiring or established sports broadcaster, a podcast is a great way to help you improve your skill and get your work out to the public! At Sportscasters Club, we use Buzzsprout to host our online radio show, most importantly because it is the easiest and quickest solution out there.
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3 of the absolute best sports broadcasting books to jump-start your career...
The Fastest Kid on the Block: The Marty Glickman Story
Call of the Game
Press Box Revolution: How Sports Reporting Has Changed Over the Past Thirty Years

As an aspiring or established sports broadcaster, a podcast is a great way to help you improve your skill and get your work out to the public! At Sportscasters Club, we use Buzzsprout to host our online radio show, most importantly because it is the easiest and quickest solution out there.
If you are considering starting your own podcast, click this affiliate link to learn more.
(You also get a $20 Amazon gift card for trying out Buzzsprout)

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Transcript

spk_1:   0:00
for every sports broadcaster who has ever tried to get a job. Have you ever wondered what the person on the other side is thinking? What the hiring manager is looking for? Well, you're in the right place because today we will talk with someone who has hired and fired for more than 25 years, and he will tell us exactly what you should be doing to get the

spk_3:   0:22
job. Welcome to the Sportscasters Klub radio show, where it's all about becoming a better sportscaster on a better sports fans. And now your host, a man who has trained sportscasters at Marist College, the Connecticut School of Broadcasting and Fordham University's WFUV radio. Eric Schultz Welcome to the Sportscasters Club online radio show. I am Rick Schulz. Great to have you with us today, and this is going to be a very exciting program today. We have a

spk_1:   1:14
guest who has hired and fired for more than 25 years. He has been a program director in multiple top 20 markets across the United States, and he has worked with the best of the best coaching, consulting and rubbing shoulders, and being a colleague of some of the best broadcasters across the country. He's a guy who's been on the air. He's been behind the scenes. He's been a program director making decisions, and right now he is the president and founder of Barrett Sports Media. Of course, I'm talking about Jason Barrett. We've talked about Jason over the course of this program this year on the Sportscasters Club online radio show. We've mentioned Barrett sports media as a terrific resource because it really is. It is a place that you, as an aspiring sportscaster, want to be connected with because you'll learn the ins and outs of the industry. What's going on right now? And there are some really great brand new resource is at Bharat Sports media that you can check out, and we're gonna talk with JB about that. As we progress through this conversation and you're gonna learn a lot of different things. We talk about some of the the things that aspiring sportscasters need to do to get on the radar of program directors in hopes of maybe landing that next job. We talk about some of the things that you shouldn't do that aspiring sportscasters or establish sportscasters should not do because certain things are detrimental to your career, so we're going to discuss that with Jason as well. We're also going to touch on the current issue that we're all working through the pandemic and how sports media and the sports broadcast industry has changed. We're going to get Jason Barrett's thoughts on that. So some really interesting content coming up today, I'm sure you're gonna enjoy it. And we will get to that conversation with Jason Barrett in just a minute.

spk_3:   3:14
If you're enjoying the show, check out our seven hour online sports broadcasting course. We cover play by play, talk show, hosting television and much more. Visit Sportscasters club dot com and click on online sportscasting glass. All right, welcome back to Sportscasters Club online radio show. I Am Rick Schulz. Just a moment we're going to chat with Jason Barrett of Barrett Sports

spk_1:   3:39
Media. And then after the conversation, we do have a question that came in this week a very interesting question about how a broadcaster should pursue their dream, or maybe maybe how to know when it's time Teoh to change directions. That question is coming up after the conversation, but right now it is our great pleasure to chat with Jason Barrett of Barrett Sports Media. I hope you've got your pen handy. Take some notes, Learn some things is gonna be a fun, interesting interview. And when you even might hear about Will Smith or Don Mattingly or Pat Riley during this conversation, So stay tuned to the very end. And this is Jason Barrett of Barrett Sports Media. Well, it's our great pleasure to speak with Jason Barrett, the president of Barrett Sports Media. Jason, how are you today?

spk_2:   4:28
Doing well, Rick.

spk_0:   4:29
It's good to hear your voice.

spk_1:   4:30
Well, I appreciate it Seems like these days that's all we're doing. We're talking to people on computers were hearing voices. It's a different landscape. Let's start right there. How do you think thespian its media world is adapting and changing? In these current times,

spk_0:   4:45
I thought the 1st 30 days on sports radio primarily was no different than the previous. Aside from the fact that you don't have games to talk about. But if you look back and you go to March, NFL free agency started toe happen. There was a draft coming up, so there was a lot of news and everybody really got you know, heavily into the NFL Tom Brady signed. That generated a lot of traction, but now you look post NFL draft and it's a different kind of situation because now everybody is going okay. When do we start playing games? Where is the news? You know, think about the N B A. For example, a month and 1/2 from now, you're supposed to have an N b A draft. Well, that's probably not gonna happen, especially if they move the season back. Well, July 1st is when Adrian Motion, Urowsky and Shams make their living right free agency. Well, that'll probably get moved back if we're going to try to get in a season. So all of these things start to drastically change based on what we're dealing with. And obviously, the further these things get pushed down the road, the more challenging the present becomes for anybody doing a sports talk show because you're just hoping for something to talk about, the good ones, you know, I think if you go in New York like Boomer and Geo, if you're in Dallas, the Muser, Sean and R. J. D. C. The sports junkies those guys entertain regardless, of the results that took place the night before. Um, on the other hand, you'll find some sports talk show hosts who, you know, want to talk about last night's game and when you've got to do 15 to 20 hours and that doesn't exist, Boy said. Daunting.

spk_2:   6:31
Sure, I mean, as a program director yourself and now a consultant to many program directors around the country. How if you were sitting in that chair, how would your mindset be different right now? I mean, what would you be thinking about as your strategizing your books in your quarters? Are you thinking anything differently now compared to what you were thinking 45 months ago?

spk_0:   6:52
Absolutely. There's one thing I'm definitely thinking different. Um, I'm sure nobody likes to hear this up top, but it's the truth. I'd be telling my talent. I don't want you even thinking about a ratings book for quarter to, because the reality is if we have a great ratings book, it means that a lot more people were sitting home on a couch, listening on the phone, listening on. A smart speaker had a lot more time toe. Listen to your show and you can't count on them being there in the third or fourth quarter of this year, because once they go back to work, what you benefited off of in quarter, too, is just not going to be possible, given the fact that they're not at home as much anymore. Flip that around and it's the same conversation if your numbers went down because the listener who was in the car driving to and from work and morning and afternoon drive is now not doing that and instead because he's home or she's home. They're watching more television or spending more time with family. It doesn't mean they don't like your show anymore or that they tuned out of it or they didn't like the topics. It means that they're just not used to the normal routine that they've been dealing with forever. This is a new world they're in and they're listening. Habits are going to change. So that would be the first thing I would be telling anyone I work with. And I do that with the stations. I worked with this. Hey, look, if you're flat or Europe great, that's awesome. But the reality is if your numbers go down or they go up. It's because of listener behavior being different. The other side of that coin is you can have great numbers all you want. But if advertising is going on pause and advertisers are, you know, taking a break from buying sports radio or your revenue is off 30 to 70%. Do you really think of client who is laying people off trying to figure out how they're going to stay afloat for the next three months and applies for a small business loan? Cares if you went up 20% in the ratings, right? How they don't They're going. Look, I'm running a small restaurant. Yes, I would like to use your airwaves to get people to buy food here, but quite frankly, I'm trying to figure out how I keep three of my people employed. I'm not interested in worrying about an and budget right now, and so there's a lot of crazy stuff that's going on. I think the bigger companies, the ones with ah, you know, bigger access to funding they're going to continue to advertise because coming through this there is gonna be light at the end of the tunnel and you are going to have people one day return to stores and buy products the way they used to, so it makes a lot of sense to continue to stay out there during this time. But look, we're in ah, completely unfamiliar territory with what's going on right now, and anyone who tells you to have a playbook for this is full of it, because this'd is uncharted territory.

spk_2:   9:51
It really is. And every day it kind of makes you question things, and it makes you really just desire to go back of couple months to when things with all the problems that we had, then it was still manageable. And as you mentioned the word routine, it was still predictable. And we had everything, all the information right in front of us. We're chatting with Jason Barrett of Barrett Sports Media. I want to get back into that side of it, but before I do, I really want to go back to the beginning of Barrett sports media and hear how the idea came about how you formulated your game plan for forming your business with the consultant side. The media side was about five years ago, so how Did they come about, JB?

spk_0:   10:30
Ah, it Actually, it's funny. It came about as a necessity. I guess in some ways, I had, um I was programming, as you know, in San Francisco is running 95.7. The game was, Ah, great situation, Love that staff had a just love living in the Bay Area. But I ultimately had to choose, you know, do I continue to program in San Francisco? Do I sign a new contract with my son being 13 years old? Or do I go back to New York? And at that time, without boring your audience with too many personal details that, ah, get everybody emotional? My son was living with my axe and the situation wasn't going as well. And so I had I just would keep hearing about the things that were going on. I said, I got to get home. You know what I've programmed For the last 10 years? I've been on planes every two weeks to come see my son in New York. But my kids gonna be 13 and I can't. I can't be comfortable signing a new contract continuing the program, and meanwhile I find out my son's life is being changed, not for the better. So I made the call, said, Look, we're gonna leave San Francisco moved to New York with nothing lined up. And before I did that, Adam, I was working at the time in San Francisco with a consultant, Rick Scott, who was a big influence on the ah, great mentor, someone I personally have a lot of, Ah, you know, positive things to say about because we spent six years working together and he had told me like Look, if you choose to go down this path down the road, let me know I help you. But as I thought about it, I wasn't really ready mentally to do that. And so the further it went along, I I really didn't want to go into consulting, and I didn't really make the decision to do it until I got back home. And when I got to New York, I tried to step back, and I think a lot of people who are successful, you can kind of read the room and figure out where it's my my path and I looked at New York and I said, Well, look, Mark Chernoff is the godfather of programming. He's one of the best to ever do it. He's probably going to be a w f a n until he decides he doesn't want to be, so that path is blocked. Um, ESPN. New York Justin Craig is a great friend of mine who was there and he was doing a killer job. And I had worked for ESPN before. Not like Tim McCarthy a lot who was there. But those guys were grooving, so that wasn't gonna be a path. And then I thought about serious. And Steve Cohen is another tremendous executive who has built a empire at serious. And the more I thought about sidecar it, even if I knocked down Steve's door. I don't know that I would be good at just programming a channel or to, you know. And that's not to say that I couldn't do it Or that, um, you know, assuming he had even wanted to talk to me about something I just kind of looked at. It is like, Look, I just built three radio stations. In 10 years, I have proven I can program. I love programming, but I really don't know if that's the path. I want to go down all of those situations. Just There was nothing like really saying, Hey, this is the job you need to go get. And so the more I thought about I said, All right, well, you know what? Rick has been a great influence. He is the one who told me I should go down this road. Um, Rick is not getting younger, and Rick will be diverse to tell you that I'm going. Well, who's going to do this for the next 10 to 20 years? Is there a business there? And there's 800 stations in this format. Can't there be a business there, You know, is there five or 10 stations out there that would utilize a program director who just built a few different top 20 markets stations? And so I just decided. All right, you know what? Never been a better time than when you have no job lined up, then to roll the dice. Um, you know, I had put some savings away and I said, All right, I'll give myself a year and see if this works. And if it doesn't, I'll just enter the real world.

spk_2:   14:33
I think it

spk_0:   14:33
away from this Ah, toybox that I've been playing it. So ah, you know, I know there's a really long answer, but I want to make sure, you know, give it Ah, give it its dio The ultimately I just said the one difference that I I felt I had to do versus what Rick had done was I felt I needed to be more front facing. Um I just look at where the world waas podcasting was growing. Social media was massively important at building a brand. And I just thought, the only way you're gonna be relevant in the social space and in podcasting is if you actually get behind a mike and you're right content on a website and you start using social to interact. And so I did that. And a lot of consultants, especially guys who worked in the industry and have done it for the last two decades. Look, they don't have to worry about what I have to worry about. Now. I have to think about the next two decades and how this becomes different. Believe me, I wish I didn't have to do half the stuff I'm doing right now. but I knew that I had to have something a little different. And so I got aggressive, started writing every day, writing stories, breaking stories, um, you know, hustling Teoh help out stations. Even sometimes when there was nothing to gain from it. Just because I felt like if you provide value over the long haul, little payoff. And then about 89 months in first client came on board than a second client right after that. And, you know, fortunately, we're still here, so that's Ah, the way I look at it, Rick is every day I get the wake up and do something I love inside the confines of my home office. I get to listen to things all over the country, talk to people all over the country and serve almost as an advocate for an industry that needs one. And so I love it. I Right now it would take something ridiculous to get me out of the world on me because I love it

spk_2:   16:31
again and knowing you for 20 years and knowing that you've been doing this for for well, more than that, it's not surprising to see you having such success. Is this really what you envisioned five years ago. Did you have in your mind that you'd be holding annual summits and have member directories and have podcasts and blogging and a team working with you? Is this part of the picture you drew up then?

spk_0:   16:55
No, I gotta be honest. I wish I could say that I had this master plan like that. Um, what I realized as I was going waas I like to write. The hard part for me is I write too much as you probably well know. Um and so my columns would be 3 4000 words, and I would look at it go. Manus took 10 hours to put together, and yet I still have to promote it on Social. I still have to write other stories, too. And so eventually, the first step was like, All right, well, maybe if I could just get some help with a few people writing some stuff, it cost me a couple bucks. But would it not help if I could not have to write every day and have some other people just to offer some different opinions? Um, as the site started the game traction and the more. I started getting ah, clients coming onboard, working with us. The more it started thinking is, you know, Look, I I know a lot of program directors around the country. Um, these guys don't really have an annual event for their business. Every conference that exists for radio spends time on everything but sports. Sports is typically the one session on the last day. Or maybe it gets a second session if you're lucky. So I just thought, Well, before I leap into that space, let me think about it and see if I could even execute a two day event because I don't even know. Could I get the speakers to show up? What? I have interesting enough content that people want to come in here. And so I a good friend of mine, Mitch Rosen, runs the score in Chicago, and I was out there for actually podcast movement conference stopped by his building, were shooting the breeze. And, ah, he took me down and showed me the performance stage that he had inside the building. And I looked at it, went, huh? That's pretty cool. They could probably fit about 60 70 people in here. It's Ah, nice, intimate setting. And we were just talking. And he said, Well, if you ever go down that road with doing a conference, Ah, keep Chicago in mind and I left there and I went, you know, could I pull this off with 30 or 50 people, even come to Chicago for this? And, um so I decided. All right, Mitch, I'm gonna take you up on that. Let's see if it works. If it doesn't never do it again. And if it's good, then we'll give it a shot. And so we did it. We had, I think 40 50 people come. We didn't I didn't want it invite everybody because I didn't want I didn't even know if I could execute it. So I wanted to make sure. First of all, will they even show up? And then, secondly, would they feel it was valuable? And the to day experience there went really well. A lot of people told me they felt good about it, was worth their time. They felt they ah took things out of there that were actionable for their business. And so I started thinking about it right after that of wow, what if I did this publicly, Um, how would that be? Different. What if I charge tickets? What if I really put more pressure on myself to do something bigger and, um, the you'll you'll appreciate this being in New York, I the place I wanted to go to last was New York.

spk_2:   20:05
Really? Why? Well, here's the thing. Since which I sense where you're going.

spk_0:   20:10
Well, there's a couple of things. First of all, New York doesn't like to be the testing ground for anything, right? New York expects you to be buttoned up and perfect. And I didn't want to go into my backyard where I'm from with ah, without knowing if it can work. Secondly, I also knew if I did it in New York, it's very expensive. I also live here. And so there was something about, you know, is this really as special as if I went somewhere else? And as I thought more about it, I went. You know what? I've known Colin cowherd a long time. I love Colin. I love Jim Rome. Both of those guys are great. If I could get them on board, I'd love the challenge just to go out West and see Can I do this? I also knew the weather in February. You probably want to start off in some place. That's a little warmer. And, um So look, I went out to L. A. I met with Don Martin and Scott Shapiro at Fox. Had met with Colin in his dressing room after a show. Went and saw Jim, Little by little started the big up. I admit, Jason Whitlock out there. We had lunch, and so he came on board. And once Whitlock, Colin, Don Scott and Jim Rome or on board, I felt like, OK, we've got the makings of something here that could actually be good. And, ah, I was so thrilled that we did l. A first before New York because I thought both L. A. In New York were tremendously successful. I was very proud of both, but I knew the weather would be a big deal, and I knew that. You know, you really have to come out of the gate with some big heavy hitters before you could attract other heavy hitters and just knowing Colin and Jim and Whitlock a little bit, they definitely helped me and getting that started.

spk_2:   21:53
Well, I mean, most, most businesses of this kind, I would imagine they would take some time to ramp up and get to the point where you have a Jim Rome and and Cowherd. And then this year, with Mike Francesa and all the great people Freddie Coleman and the list was was so impressive that you had in New York, you went right out there guns blazing and put together programs each and every year that have just been amazing. Which is one of the reasons that I had to speak at Fordham University when I was a sports director there. And one of the reasons I wanted to have you on here today to talk about not only your vantage point of the industry from a program director, but really, when you get down to it, what are some of the things that people that are aspiring in this industry need to keep in mind and need to do so? Everything that you bring is is really awesome. From that standpoint, we're talking with Jason Barrett of Barrett Sports Media. So this year was in New York. Were you pleased? We're thrilled. What was the feedback after this year's summit.

spk_0:   22:50
It was great. I I felt awesome about New York. I, um obviously, this pandemic hit in the middle of March 3 weeks afterwards, and I just think back on, man, can you imagine if this hit in the middle of February, how bad I would have been? You know, my business would have been in terrible shape. Um, so I'm lucky in that regard that we, you know, we're able to execute it before that took place. Um, the the support that I got in New York, just like with l. A was tremendous. Um, you know, it was a personal thrill sharing the stage with Erica Gardini, who I think is fascinating. Who runs bar stool? Um, you know, sitting up there with Francis. It is a guy I listened to inspired me along with Mad Dog, to want to get in radio, to be able to get into some, you know, in the weeds with him on some sports radio. Things were great, but one of the coolest things about it, um, Rick, is you could go from a talent like Mike Francesa to executive like Erica Nardi. Any two programmers like Bruce Gilbert Chris Olivero, who's not a market manager in New York. Mark Chernoff, Those guys on there. We introduce a couple awards to recognise that people have made a significant impact on the business. But then you also have sale sessions up there. Then you have a social session up there. And, you know, I try to look at it from the vantage point of how do I help everybody in this building walk out of here with enough information that they go? Hey, between a hotel cost, the dinners that we bought, the ticket that we paid for and the two days of being out of my building, Was it worth it? I want people to feel like, you know, look, you can't get that much access to people in that much information to better yourself is a professional. Then when you come to the conference. So, um, I you look, I thought when we announced New York, I was definitely worried about whether or not the weather would cooperate. We got lucky in that regard. It didn't Ah, you know, we didn't have a bad day. Um, and then I was, you know, Hey, are we going to get um are the big New York types going to be on board with this? And when Francis it came on board, then fine bomb came on board. Ah, he just happened to be coming into New York and wanted to be involved in. Believe me, I'm never going to turn down. Paul Paul is tremendous. So little by little again, it started to come, you know, come together. And when I look at you know, the two days that we put together there and I look at all the different people that came from Entercom CEO Susan Larkin to, you know, somebody hosting in a small market to programmers, market managers as just ah, it's really cool, man. Just to see how it's evolved in the last three years, I

spk_2:   25:44
think it's awesome, and particularly for our audience here, which is predominantly up incoming aspiring sportscasters. It's a way for them to connect with what you do at Barrett Sports media toe. Learn about the industry to know exactly what's going on day by day, hour by hour even, and I know you've launched your new member directory. So when we come back and ask you about that, I also want to hear some of your thoughts as far as what aspiring sportscasters should and should not do, maybe to land their first job. And we're going to get those answers from Jason Barrett when we come back.

spk_3:   26:18
If you love this radio show, please hit the subscribe button. And don't forget to share like and leave reviews. Your friends will thank you, and we'll think you're super cool. All right, welcome back to the Sportscasters Club online radio show. I am Rick Schulz, and we're joined today by Jason Barrett, the president and founder of Barrett Sports

spk_2:   26:38
Media and Jason. We were talking the last segment about how Barrett sports media has grown and a lot of the different things you provide. Ah, lot of it does revolve around aspiring sportscasters and different ways that they can jump into this industry. Can you tell us a little bit about your brand new member directory and what that provides for aspiring sportscasters?

spk_0:   27:00
Of course, the look. The one thing I always tell whether you're aspiring or established as a broadcaster is you've got to be in front of the right eyeballs, and you should have a you tube page. You should do a podcast. You should have a profile on LinkedIn and Twitter and Facebook do all that. But if a program director is looking for you, they've got a sift through hundreds, sometimes thousands of profiles and pages in all these places. And so what you try to do is look at where do they go? You know, like, believe me, if ESPN had a member of directory, we will be signing up. You just can't do it if they don't have it. So I started thinking about it about a year ago. We actually talked about launching it last year when we did the l A conference, but I didn't feel we were already at that point. Um and so I decided. And, you know, the timing isn't necessarily the greatest since we launched this, but I'm looking at it as a long term play. And the idea was, let's create a page on the site. Uh, that's paid for aspiring and established professionals to essentially feature their work because we know the one thing all you have to do is, you know, go on Barracks forts, Media's YouTube page. Look at the people who come to to be ASEM Summit. You can see there are a lot of people who hire at radio stations that come to our event. How did they get there? They read our site. They know me. They stay in touch with what we doing. They keep tabs on. So if I know I've got those kind of people paying attention to our content, um, you know, why would when would that be valuable to someone looking to put their work out there to potentially attract future eyeballs, whether it be tomorrow or five years down the road. Of course it would, Um I wish this it it existed when you and I were starting a broadcasting Gergen. There just wasn't anything like it. So I decided. Look, we're gonna create this. It'll given It'll give anyone who signs up an opportunity to post their resume, showcased their social accounts, put up their audio put up video essentially becomes a link that they can share what program directors if they want to email. But they also know programmers on their own or coming to the website, and they're going to see it, and they're gonna click on it, and they're gonna click on the audio and say, Who's this? Let me see if it's any good and look, that's the other side of this. Although it's great for the professional or the kid out of school who's trying to get his name out there and build something. It's also great for the program director because everybody's looking for talent. And if you could go toe one place rather than having a dive through all these other channels to find people, I mean, look, man, as I hired people over the course of my career, is a program director. You post a job on a company's site and you say, Hey, we're looking for a talk show host. You literally get 3 400 emails with, you know, resumes attach audio clips, and you're not going through all that. So you know you don't have the band with toe. Look at every single one of them. But what does stand out is, Oh, somebody's in this spot. That's a spot I like. Ah, let me. You know what? I've got 10 minutes to kill. Let me click on five or six clips and see if anything jumps out. And so I just thought it you know, it's a lot of value for a programmer, but there's also value for those who are hosting and the other part of it. I wanted to make it affordable. I didn't want to try toe, beat everybody over the head and try to take a a ton of money out of somebody's trying to building a build a career. Um, it also comes with getting a weekly email with job opportunities that exist in the industry. I tell people right now who have signed up. Hey, this is gonna be a very different time if you're looking for job opportunities, because the industry right now is doing everything to lose people because they can't pay the expenses to keep people employed. So the job opportunities may not be out like they normally would right now. But when those do come about and you're entering a crowded field of a couple 1000 people looking for work, you might want tohave yourself out there already where a couple people have landed on you and look at you as a future options.

spk_2:   31:16
I tell students all the time that it's it's just such a great time to be in this industry compared to 2030 years ago, because in the nineties we were manually copying our tapes, mailing them out, slip into them post office, sending things out, following up, and it was just very difficult. So this is just a great place where, like you said, from the program director standpoint, it's a one place where they can go and maybe find what they're looking for and from, ah, A broadcasters point of view. It's a place where you know you're going to get that exposure you're not gonna get anywhere else. I mean, if you could pull the curtain back for us a little bit because you've programmed in top 20 markets, you've been doing it now for more than 20 years. When you are looking to fill a position on air, pull back the curtain a little bit. What are some of the tips? What are some of the things you're looking for that maybe the aspiring sportscaster listening right now can do to maybe give him or her Ah, leg up?

spk_0:   32:12
Um, a couple of things. I mean, first of all, you can't control the voice you're given. Um, you can control the content you talk about you can control the passion in which you deliver something you do control. Whether or not your original, unique, interesting entertain. Like I always tell people, you know, say something worth stealing. It's an old line I heard a long time ago. But do you say things that make me stop in my tracks? And remember, could I repeat them in one sentence to somebody? Um, you know, do you have original takes that aren't necessarily heard in other places? Um, you know, those things. Look, there are natural entertainers and they're people that gotta work to entertain. It doesn't mean you can't find a job if you're just smooth on the air. But you're not as nationally entertaining as a greggy naughty or Craig Carton Watts. You know, some guys just have certain things that you don't, but you've got to find your own voice, your own style. I don't think there's any substitute for passion and work ethic that you control. You know, when I got in the business, I knew I didn't have the pipes of Mike Francesa. What I did know is I had a motor and a relentless work ethic that nobody could touch and you worked with me. So, you know, um, my mindset every day at work was today is an opportunity to prove that not only do I belong at W F a n, but that I'm the best that ever walked in the door at F A. M. And you're either born that way with that kind of mindset. And you work towards what you want to accomplish, and you're willing to pay the price to get to where you want to get, like, Look, just because I know a lot of kids listening to this don't have the perspective yet is they're looking to get into an industry. It took eight years, Rick. Before I even made $20,000. Eight years, and I was hosting afternoon driving Poughkeepsie, and I was the program director. When I got 21 5 I thought, Man, that I strike gold. And when I got 32 grand to go to Albany in year nine, I thought, Oh, my God, like we actually could go out on Saturday. This is great. Like never did I think I was gonna be doing six figures, you know, as a program director. And, you know, doing things financially in the industry that I I was the same guy Rick doing San Francisco money that I was in Florida, New York, working on a 250 watt station that powered off a night. And that, to me, is kind. I think, why, when I look back at my own career, why, I could say that's why I was successful Because although the paycheck changed, the mindset in the work ethic and the passion for it never did. And that's just something that anyone going into work, you know, you can tell who's willing to do the extra versus someone who's doing just enough, you know, like I was at the ah, we were talking before about the summit. I had 44 young guys, um, one from Fordham to from, ah, I own and one from Hoster. All take part and help us out. And, you know, all of them were grinding to do things, which was awesome. And I go now look on four. You stood out. Only one of you gets a job, though, So what are you going to do that the other three won't? And that's that's, you know, just like in pro sports. It's competitive every day. You're gonna understand that in radio or television or you're working for a website every day. You've got to bring it, and you've got to do something to stand out because the minute you don't Mark Cuban had a great line, and I use it to this day, he said. Work 24 hours a day, like someone's working 24 hours a day to take it all away from you and really great. It's It's so true. If you want this business, you've got to be willing to do things that others won't.

spk_2:   36:07
And it seems like I mean, that is one of the areas that translates from the broadcast booth down to the court, down to the field because the truly great ones they prepare, they work hard. I mean, Michael Jordan, it's It's so timely that that the youthful generation now gets a chance to see the work ethic of Michael Jordan and what went into his championships in his legacy because it wasn't the money, although that's nice and it drives you to a point. But it was just to be the best person you can be, whether you're on the court. You're on the air. And that's one of the things that broadcasters need to have as their mindset throughout. What do you see? JB as the other side. As a program director, you've hired a lot. You fired a lot. What are the things that broadcasters do on the other side? That may be sour. You on them from the start?

spk_0:   36:59
Um, I think first of all, there's a lot of insecurity and defensiveness. Um, if you make a mistake or if you know you're not doing everything you have to to get something done on it don't Don't try to make excuses. Don't blame other people. Um, And if you're not working hard when someone tells you that you're not working hard, listen what they're saying and actually go and prove them wrong and do it. Don't just sit there and give them You know, all the things going on in your life and why you can't get something done. Because, look, we all have things I talked before about how I'd fly on a plane every two weeks to come see my son. I you know, I had to sacrifice a lot of things along the way to build a career. You think my boss wants to hear that I didn't put together the best plan for a radio station to be successful because I have to be gone for three days. No expects me toe. Have a plan. Make sure I've got people in place to carry the vision forward when I'm not there and us not miss a beat. Otherwise, I can't afford to be in New York. So I think that's one thing I think the other thing. And this is something I've seen a lot more, especially in the last five years of consulting. There is definitely a growing contingent of producers today that really don't want to grind to put guests on. And they, you know that, I guess, don't matter. No guests do matter. Um, I don't want to hear a radio show for three hours with nine guests, not at all. But I don't care what show you look at. Whether it's Sports Center, the documentary The Last Dance Look at the Last Dance. I'll use that as an example how much social conversation takes place from that show, based on what some one said on that show, so if you were a radio show in Dennis Rodman said something on this show, you go on and you talk about what he said. Well, Dennis Rodman is essentially a guest. He was asked a question. He answered it because he answered it. You now have content to work with, right, Right, Like So when I look at it interviews as an example. And let's say a show is on from 3 to 6 in the afternoon and they have a guest at 3 30 If that guest at 3 30 is really good and says one thing of value, that may be the follow up conversation at 3 45 because it was interesting enough to carry over your probably coming back to it at some point in the four hour you're coming back to it in the five hour, it's going to be talked about on your social media because you're gonna highlight the quote. You may even craft an image to talk about what? That to highlight what that person said. It might become a promo on your radio station to talk about the power of your show in the great stuff that happens now. Think about that one guest spot and all the different ways you just created buzz around your show. It's way bigger than just that 1/4 hour, but sometimes I'll talk to folks and about booking big name guests in moving the needle in a timely fashion and that drive to go get people on. Uh, I'm not saying everybody because they're certainly people who do a great job still, but there's definitely sometimes you got to give them a swift kick. Unfortunately, these days, and I just looking and go look, you know, one of my lines, Rick, I've been saying from the time my program to the time I consult and I say that every building is People love to hear people talk about other people. It will always draw an audience because it produces drama. And if you produce drama, you're gonna have people wanting to pay attention to your content, and it's that simple.

spk_2:   40:45
It's terrific because this is like a master class and out of program direct, and it's really the same things, the same core themes that I heard you talking about 10 or 20 years ago so hopefully people can listen to this. It's packaged in a different way, but it's really the same type stuff. So I've been fooling them for two decades, right? It's been working well. You've done a good job here today and then certainly fooled me in that regard. Um, before I let you go, JP, I want to get to a lightning round. Five Quick questions if you're up for that. Sound good?

spk_0:   41:16
Yeah, let's do it.

spk_2:   41:17
Awesome Question and answer time with Jason Barrett. Question. One of five. When you were a kid, What was your favorite baseball card?

spk_0:   41:25
Favorite baseball card was probably Don Mattingly's rookie card.

spk_2:   41:30
Nice, great player, great player in our area. We had yet Mattingly on the Yankee side. I had good news if you came from. If

spk_0:   41:37
you came from that error, that's it. You're either. If you are a Mets. Guy was good in Strawberry. If you were Yankee. Guy was all done. Donnie. Baseball?

spk_2:   41:45
Definitely. All right, Good answer. Here's question Number two. Who is the sports personality living or past that? You would love to have dinner with

spk_0:   41:56
mm. Living or past. That's a good question. Um, I

spk_3:   42:01
gotta tell

spk_0:   42:02
you, just because I so wired into feeling like like, for example, I go and I could sit with Colin Cowherd, and I just find this story fascinating. But I don't look at it like anything special, even though I probably should, because the guys just really short. I probably for me personally, probably be Chris Mad Dog Russo just because he's you know, he's so energetic. So he's funny. Um, the stories over the years of doing local to now doing national. I'm sure that would be a fun conversation in a fun night,

spk_2:   42:35
Definitely. When you do it, just make sure you bring along your equipment and put it on the podcast for us. Okay, Well, dio all right, question number three for Jason Barrett. When you're on that plane, you're traveling out to California to consult with one of your many clients. What is the one movie that you hope comes on your favorite movie

spk_0:   42:55
movies? You can be honest. I don't usually watch anything on a plane even when I'm on for five hours. Um, I'm such as, you know, I'm a workaholic, so I'm typically either reading, writing or sleeping. But if I am on a plane and I'm gonna look for a movie to come on, It probably would be Will Smith's the pursuit of happiness just because, first of all, it took place in the Bay Area so that would, you know, connect me New York. But it's also about her severe insane, overcoming everything to finally get the life that you want. And so, like, I relate to that story in a big way. And so I just think that always puts me in a good mood. And it reminds me of like, Hey, look, that this is what you have to go through Sometimes in life, if you want to be someone

spk_2:   43:47
such a fantastic movie, It's ironic. You say that because my two daughters nine and 12 we just watched that last weekend, and they loved it so tremendous. I hope they picked up some of the things you mentioned. Um, okay, question number four with Jason Barrett. Favorite sports book

spk_0:   44:03
favorite sports book. I'm not a big sports book guy. I'm a bigger sports. Um, I'm more about bio kind of stories, you know where, like, uh, like, for example, I'm looking right now at my collection. This is what you would have if you were sitting in my office. It's got a positioning by Al Reese and Jack Trout. The Powell principles winning every day with Lou Holtz lead to succeed Rick Pitino. I've got a book from Coach K. Probably my favorite, though, of all of them is Pat Riley, the winner within just a tremendous book on leadership. And, um, I love how in that book he talks about how he had to get the Los Angeles Lakers toe, understand the disease of me and get them to overcome their own ego to become champions. And so I love stuff like that. I feel like because that relates to my work. I'm

spk_3:   44:57
not one of those guys

spk_0:   44:58
that ever, like, you know, I watch sports. I love sports. I, you know, lose my mind on sports. But I just never really been a big guy on Let me go read the 1996 Yankees book and why they did it. You know, it just wasn't my deal more of leadership stuff I care about.

spk_2:   45:14
You picked a great one, a great one that he's passed down certainly and just learned a lot. I've got it on the shelf behind me to Jamie. I got a pick it up and read it again. Another one

spk_0:   45:24
that's underrated is the The Winners Manual by Jim Tressel. That's also very good.

spk_2:   45:29
Haven't read that Good. Good to know anyone who's listening. Certainly take a look at that one. All right, Our final question with Jason Barrett Find our lightning round. This might put you on the spot. I don't know, but if it does, it's OK. What is your favorite sports talk show host of all time?

spk_0:   45:48
Listen, um there I really don't have one. Here's what I would say. Um, I would take the authoritative presence of Mike Francesa, the brain of Colin Cowherd, The interviewing skills of Dan Patrick, the quick wit of Craig Carton, Um, and the ability to connect with callers of Chris Mad Dog Russo and I'd like to mold all five of them in tow. One that be a hell of a talk show host. Um, you know, that's the thing. There's I have such an appreciation for the art form that there are so many people I could listen to. Even when someone says, this guy's terrible, I go, OK, that's your opinion. What does he do Well like like For example, if you look around the industry today, some people love Clay, Travis and Dave Portnoy. Others can't stand them. I look at them and go have an ability to provoke. I look at a guy like Dan LeBatard ago. He's gone ability to go off the reservation and make you continue listening and keep you entertained, even if he's not the quote unquote guy that a programmer is gonna fall in love with from a topic selection, because he does things a little off off the beaten path. But guess what? It works. And so I always try to look at what does a talent do that's really interesting and valuable to an audience rather than hey, make sure you're talking about this every single hour. Now don't get me wrong. When we were in San Francisco, if you weren't talking San Francisco Giants baseball as much as possible, you just not reading the audience. It's what they eat up. If you're in Saint Louis, you're gonna talk a lot of ST Louis Cardinals, but someone with an ability to entertain we'll always keep people listening, and so I always try to find what do they do well and then obviously emphasize the strengths and try to disguise the weaknesses.

spk_2:   47:42
That's great, Well, that that, Ah, sports host, that you just put together It is hard to be really terrific. And this has been some great information. I really enjoyed it. I'm sure our listeners are going to take an awful lot out of this conversation. And if they want to follow up with you or check out your member directory, where's the best place for them to find you and check out?

spk_0:   48:01
They can go on to the website. Barrett sports media dot com. They can find me on Twitter at Sports Radio PD We're also on Facebook. Barrett Sports media view to Barrett Sports media uh, lengthen. You could find me under Jason Barrett. I'm everywhere tryto That's the world or end Ricketts, sometimes exhausting, having a have 67 things going. But you know, everybody takes things in different places, so you try to follow the audience.

spk_2:   48:29
That's right, and pretty soon you'll be back out on a plane as well. So I'm hoping that that sooner than later, JB

spk_0:   48:35
yeah, me too. One thing. I'll leave your listeners with this. Especially important for young young people getting into the business. Remember that it's not all about talent. It's about relationships. If you don't have relationships, I don't care how good you are. You're just hoping for people to find you. Ah, have some relationships, and your talent will go a lot further.

spk_2:   48:58
Terrific advice, Terrific advice toe to send us off on this interview. And it's definitely the theme that you can kind of hear from the minute we started today and how Europe Career and now your business has been built. So, JB, this has been a lot of fun. Thank you so much for joining us, and we look forward to maybe chatting down the road,

spk_0:   49:15
always happy to do it right. Keep in touch, buddy.

spk_1:   49:18
Well, I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Jason Barrett. As you heard. He had a path that really tested his desire just from his earlier days in the industry and how things changed and progressed and how he built a career from being on the air 25 years ago. Ultimately to be coming a program director programming at some of the top locations and top stations across the country, whether it be in new York, where they're working for ESPN than being out in ST Louis, San Francisco and now back on the East Coast as he runs the really rising and growing entity of Barrett Sports Media, which is really a terrific place for sports journalism, news, podcasts, all kinds of articles. The Barrett Sports Media Summit, which we talked about. So check him out, take a look at what they have to offer in their member directory as well. And we really appreciate Jason Barrett joining us on the show. When we come back, it is time for our question and answer, period.

spk_3:   50:24
When you're done with this episode, or even if you want to open your browser now, you can go deeper and learn the secrets of sports broadcasting. Search our full list of books at sportscasters club dot com, available from Amazon and Kindle paperback and audible format. Now it's time for the best part of our show. Your questions are answers. To ask a question for the program, send an email to questions at sportscasters club dot com.

spk_1:   50:57
All right, keep the questions coming. Today. We have a great one from Travis in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, he sent in his question to questions at sportscasters club dot

spk_3:   51:06
com, Travis says, How do I

spk_1:   51:08
know if I should give up my broadcasting dream? That is a great question, Travis, and it's something that happens in something that occurs in the career of many sportscasters, and it really depends on you and your stage of life. For example, you heard Jason Barrett talking about some of the crossroads that he came to during his career, whether it be the decision to move into the program, directing side many decisions he had to make along the road as far as where to move, where to, where to move, where the opportunity waas So some of the different stops he had. Albany, Bristol, ST Louis, San Francisco, etcetera. And then, ultimately, the decision to change passed completely and forge his own path. Creating a consulting business with Barrett sports media and coming back to the East Coast. And you heard him talk about the personal reasons behind that. And every broadcaster has a unique path. Every broadcaster has a unique set of circumstances, and there's no one size fits all some basic things I can tell you, which usually hold true when you're younger. Without a family and kids, it's a lot easier to move around and handle some of that transient nature that you see in the broadcast industry. It's a lot easier once you settle down a little bit and have roots, or once you want to do that. It's much more difficult, in fact, that it's one of the reasons that you see often times people that grow and succeed toe higher levels in the sportscasting industry. Often times they wait till later in life to establish a family life. And that's just because they can't do it while they're moving around changing cities every year or two. It's hard to established yourself in that side, the personal side with family and kids. Not that you can't do it, but sometimes it can be, Ah, very difficult balance, because the industry oftentimes has you moving around has in has you changing locations. Sometimes you're not making that much. Most of the time, you're not making that much as you heard Jason talk about in the interview. But if you're trying to survive on $45,000 a year, it's tough to have a family tough to settle down, get married, raised a family. It's very, very difficult. And so only you can decide where that crossroads is in your career. For some people, they can persist through that for 10 20 years until they ultimately get ah, bigger break that launches their career in a new direction. For others, they make their own path, and I think there's nothing wrong with establishing your own path, whether it be through digital media, depending where you're located right now, you may have great opportunities there as well. And so I think it's in many regards a lot easier now. Um, Travis, I think it's, ah lot easier because everything is digital now. And so there are more opportunities in places that there might not be or might not have been in the past. So, for example, you you send this question from Cedar Rapids, Iowa. My guess is that 25 30 years ago, if you were in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, you didn't have as many opportunities as you might now because of the interconnected nature of the industry. And you can get your materials out there and you can do different things Well. For example, this podcast I could be in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, or I could be in New York City, and it really doesn't matter. And a lot of the opportunities you find now are the same thing in the past. 30 years ago, you would graduate from college and you would travel toe Nebraska or Iowa or Montana or California or across the state across the country, wherever you might be to get that first break and you'd make 15 $20,000 a year and work 70 80 hours a week. In many instances, that still the case, and you have to determine if it's something that fits in with your lifestyle on dure willing to to put in that sacrifice. But in other instances, you you may have a different path, and you may be able to skip some of those steps. Not that you're gonna be able to progress without the experience component, but just logistically based on technology and based on the digital nature of things. You may have opportunities now without having toe move yourself across the country and relocate for a year, so Onley you can determine that and it comes down to you know I referenced this book all the time. Simon Cenex. Outstanding book. Start with Why you gotta know your why? If you're a 20 year old aspiring broadcaster and you've got years ahead of you maybe a decade ahead of you that you're willing to push and and grind and your why is strong enough, then focus on that and go for it. If you're 30 35 and you've got a desire toe plant a family and have kids and settled down, maybe have a house and a dog and a picket fence, then you may want to re evaluate which direction you're going to go in, and it just depends on your life in your stage. So I think that's very important to keep in mind. That's a great book by Simon cynic. And it all starts with that. I mean, there are broadcasters that some of the highest levels right now that basically put their life on hold for 20 years. No girlfriend, no wife, no kids. Is that something you're willing to sacrifice? Some people are. Some people aren't, but I hope that answers the question. It really starts with you. And hopefully a lot of the resource is that you've heard on this program and at our website sportscasters club dot com. Hopefully, that's useful, and we talked about Barrett sports media as well, So check them out at Barrett sports media dot com. When we come back, we'll wrap it up.

spk_3:   57:31
Are you searching for one on one coaching to take your sports broadcasting career to the next level? Visit the coaching section on our Web site. Sportscasters club dot com.

spk_1:   57:40
All right, we wind down the final moments of this exciting episode of The Sportscasters Club online radio show. I urge you to go back to the beginning where we started way back at the beginning of this year 2020 and check out all the episodes. We've had some great guests. We've had a lot of content that I think will help in you in your career as you aspire to be a sportscaster or if you just want to be a better sports fan. So either way, check out all the episodes and thank you for subscribing and leaving reviews and passing this along to any friends or family members you have that are interested in the sports broadcasting world or want to be better broadcasters or better fans. We also thank Jason Barrett for his time today. What a great conversation with Jason. Very wide ranging, talking about the sports media industry

spk_3:   58:29
and some terrific advice for aspiring or established sports broadcaster. So thank you to Jason Barrett of B. S. M. I'm Rick Schulz here on the Sportscasters Club online radio show, and we will talk to you next time. Thanks for listening to the Sportscasters Klub radio show at sportscasters club dot com. Don't forget to subscribe, so you will never miss an episode. And thanks for liking sharing, boasting reviews and spreading the word.