The focus is on Women's Football with James Walton of Deloitte, the major sponsor for the WPL, the General Manager of Still Aerion WFC, Norman Lim and current player and youngest ever player to don the National team jersey, Mastura Jeilani.
We discuss the growth of women's football in Singapore and the challenges that have plagued the women's game here. James, Mastura and Norman are candid in their opinions about the challenges they face and are also positive about the progress made.
From the struggles with funding to the need for technical and tactical enhancements, we don't shy away from the hard-hitting questions. We discuss the delicate balance between passion and money in the sport, the influence of prominent clubs on team standards and the tug-of-war between clubs and national teams for players.
Norman shares about Aerion's vision and the significant roles their officials play. Hear from James about his experience promoting the WPL and gain insights from Mastura on the progress women's football has made over the years.
It was a short but insighful chat. The biggest takeaway from this episode is the untapped potential of Women's Football in Singapore and the need for specialists who really care about the game to come forward and take the women's game to the next level.
This episode is dedicated to all women footballers, coaches, volunteers and the various people who are working hard in the women's game. Enjoy!
The focus is on Women's Football with James Walton of Deloitte, the major sponsor for the WPL, the General Manager of Still Aerion WFC, Norman Lim and current player and youngest ever player to don the National team jersey, Mastura Jeilani.
We discuss the growth of women's football in Singapore and the challenges that have plagued the women's game here. James, Mastura and Norman are candid in their opinions about the challenges they face and are also positive about the progress made.
From the struggles with funding to the need for technical and tactical enhancements, we don't shy away from the hard-hitting questions. We discuss the delicate balance between passion and money in the sport, the influence of prominent clubs on team standards and the tug-of-war between clubs and national teams for players.
Norman shares about Aerion's vision and the significant roles their officials play. Hear from James about his experience promoting the WPL and gain insights from Mastura on the progress women's football has made over the years.
It was a short but insighful chat. The biggest takeaway from this episode is the untapped potential of Women's Football in Singapore and the need for specialists who really care about the game to come forward and take the women's game to the next level.
This episode is dedicated to all women footballers, coaches, volunteers and the various people who are working hard in the women's game. Enjoy!
This is the Silver Fox Hustle Football Talk. Hi, I'm Shasi and this is the Silver Fox Hustle Football Talk episode. This is the latest episode and what do you know? It's so, so apt that we are going to speak about women's football because the FIFA World Cup just ended in Australia and New Zealand and obviously the winner was Spain. We've got some heartbreaks in the studio today. We will talk about that a little bit later. We're going to speak about women's football, why the people who are in it are in it, how we can develop the game further here in Singapore, and things like that.
Speaker 1:In the house we've got three guests and they are basically stakeholders of the women's football here in Singapore. One is a sponsor, one is a present footballer and a former national player as well. I think she is in the running for a national team spot again, I don't know, you shall talk about that as well and a general manager of a club in the WNL and WPL. Let me introduce to you guys the guests in the house. First up is the sponsor of the WPL, deloitte Sports Business Group Leader, mr James Walton. We've got the general manager of Royal Arian WFC, wnl, mr Norman Lim. He will try to correct me on that one, because it's a tongue twister, and a woman footballer, mastura Jalani, who is playing for Belastir Kalsa at the moment. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. Thanks.
Speaker 3:Thank you, thanks for having us.
Speaker 1:We start off with James, the women's football and the FIFA World Cup. How was it in terms of the general competition?
Speaker 2:I mean, with any competition like this, you look at two things, right. You look at the quality of the football and then you look at the impact beyond that. And I think what surprised a lot of people, this time the tournament expanded from 24 teams to 32. And at the last World Cup there were some pretty bad maulings going on of teams and there was a question of when you expand to 32, whether you'll be diluting the quality and we'll see more one-sided games. But actually it was almost the opposite. It gave the opportunity for nations to come in and we saw performances from teams like Nigeria, philippines, colombia, south Africa. That really surprised in many, many ways. So the quality of football undoubtedly the highest that we've ever had, both in terms of the quality but also in terms of the competitive nature.
Speaker 2:And I think it was exciting to see this is the first time we've ever had a final that hasn't had the US or Germany in it. You had Germany going out at the group stage for the first time, the US the earliest they've ever gone out. So I think on the one hand, you look at that and you say that's a success, right? And of course that then plays into the impact piece. And from an impact point of view, we're looking at two billion viewers worldwide throughout the tournament.
Speaker 2:We haven't got the figures yet for the final, but in the UK, the semifinal against Australia 11 million people in the UK watched that semifinal. We had over two million people in the stadiums, which is a new high and a new record average attendance Over 30,000, the previous record was in the low 20s. So on all of those benchmarks, you say it's a success, but perhaps and I think this is going to lead into a lot of the conversation today there's still so many things around that are not working. And you look at the fact that the Spain team that won is effectively a dysfunctional team at the moment, where you had 15 players demanding the manager be sacked a year ago, many of them still not in the reckoning. And then you see teams like Nigeria, south Africa, jamaica in warfare with their own FAs around the fact that they're not getting paid payments that they're entitled to, and it just shows how far they are still to go.
Speaker 1:Masuda, how about you? Who was your favorite for the tournament? He has been England front of the beginning.
Speaker 4:Really, you're sure.
Speaker 1:Not because they won. England didn't win.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but he was England front of the beginning.
Speaker 1:Right, right, and how do you think they?
Speaker 2:did.
Speaker 1:Is it heartbreak, James?
Speaker 2:It was upsetting a little bit because they beat a bit here to miss this whole tournament, but they just, I just don't think they did enough last night. Spain deserved to win.
Speaker 4:Yeah, unfortunately I didn't get to watch the match because I have my own match, which I don't want to talk about it right now.
Speaker 1:Actually, there's two things you can talk about no, no, no your game and the fact that you're playing a game on final day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, hey, at least you were here to play the game, unlike some people who went to watch the final.
Speaker 4:Oh, that's a good point.
Speaker 1:So England, was there a little bit of heartbreak last night.
Speaker 4:Yes, super, it was after the game checking the result after it's double heartbreak.
Speaker 1:How about you, Norman?
Speaker 3:To be very honest, I haven't been watching a lot, but this year, after I joined Eryon, whenever there's an opportunity to watch the women's World Cup I because I work from home sometimes, so I get to watch. So I'm pretty impressed by how much more exposure the game for women, especially the World Cup now. It's being advertised and there's more people talking about it. Even if you look at the stadiums it's filling out. Maybe certain games at the start you get maybe one quarter of the stadium, but as it progresses I think you get more interest and the stadium starts filling out. I think that's pretty impressive. I think, of course, to what James said there's still a long way, but, yeah, definitely much better than four years ago, I would say.
Speaker 1:Now shout out to Japan as well. I thought Japan was great.
Speaker 2:Got the golden boot as well.
Speaker 1:Well, james, let's start off with you. Let's kick start this episode proper, because we want to talk about the women's game here in Singapore. I think that's what we all are here for. Let's talk about Deloitte, and you are the main sponsors of the League, the women's Premier League. What was the thinking behind this, when you why? Why sponsor the women's league when you could sponsor something else, a different sport maybe?
Speaker 2:I mean. So we've been sponsoring Netball, obviously, for many years, as well as supporting Team Singapore, and I think what it came down to was a couple of things. We've had a bunch of women's footballers, including national players, working in the company going back seven or eight years now.
Speaker 2:So originally people like Ho Hui Sin and Deborah Chin, angie Pang Even now we have Nadra and Beatrice Tan working in Deloitte now.
Speaker 2:So there's an element was that we were always trying to see what we could do to support them and help them.
Speaker 2:But equally, we have people from other sports as well, right, but we just we looked at it and we saw that there was an opportunity here for Singapore in a sport that is, in a way, is an emerging sport, where the kind of new world order is still being decided, as we saw with Philippines making it to the World Cup.
Speaker 2:And I often talk with Neil Humphries and Neil Humphries will always say that if he were investing a dollar right now in football in Singapore, he'd be putting it in the women, because there's more likelihood of the women's team making it to the World Cup than the men's team anytime soon, right. And so we were looking at that and we were saying, well, here's an opportunity with a sport where you can actually inspire the next generation young girls to play a game that currently they are simply not playing, and so that dollar you put in that time, that effort you put in, will have a much larger impact than if you perhaps put it in one of the more established sports. So it was really about supporting our own people, but also seeing a whole group of young girls in society that wanted to play a sport. That simply the avenues, the opportunities were not there.
Speaker 1:Has it been a good decision so far?
Speaker 2:So far, so good. I mean, what's been really pleasing is we've seen a huge amount of media coverage, which, as a sponsor, is always great right, and I think hats off to people like Straits Times and Monitor, as well as some of our own local specialist channels like SG Women's Football, women's Football in SG two different channels don't ask why soccer girl goals groups like that that have been really trying to raise the coverage and as a sponsor, you love that. So I think, from a footballing point of view, we're seeing a higher quality of football, more girls playing. Now you've got the National League starting as well. The most heartwarming thing to me really is when the players come and tell me that they remember pre-COVID, that they would be playing a match in the middle of nowhere late at night with three people in the stands, and now they're getting a stadium with supporters in it and that the games are publicized, so people know where to come and come to the stadium and watch the games, and to me as a sponsor, that means we've made a difference.
Speaker 1:I'll come to that a little bit later on. I want to talk to Mastura about this as well. Now, looking at your credentials, mastura, it's a long list. Just a question about you were the youngest player to play in the national team. Does that record still stand?
Speaker 4:Yes, and at what age was this? 14? Years and 2-6 days.
Speaker 1:That is absolutely brilliant. Well done, mastura, you're still the youngest player ever to don the national colours for Singapore. Excellent.
Speaker 2:Are you trying to become the oldest player next you?
Speaker 1:might. Anyway, you just, or you were recovering from an ACL injury, and when did that happen In last July. And you fully recovered and you're playing Any ambitions of getting back into the national team Of course Easy to say it's undone business and unfinished business.
Speaker 1:Nice, brilliant, I like that and I think you've been a tremendous servant to Singapore football. And looking at the women's football landscape over the years Because you've been there for a very long time till now it looks like you've been there for a long time what changes have you seen so far From then and now? Let's say you take maybe 10 years back and now. What are the changes you've seen so far in the women's football landscape?
Speaker 4:There's a lot of changes and I'm so glad I'm still part of it right now and witness the changes. So number one is probably the pitch that we have right now. We have dedicated like home of women's football, eshu and Chow Chukang Stadium, and that is something that's really important, because last time we used to play in primary school pitches, we kicked the corner. Kick we can reach the other ones, four matches yeah.
Speaker 4:I was always primary and it is a top tier league. We are playing in the primary school and then supporters come. They sit on the ground raining, they just hold an umbrella. Not even supporters, even our officials, even our like reserves were sitting under the rain. If it rains, let's say, and then we use like plastic chairs, which is not even enough, so yeah, and then we have kids like playing at the side of the field while the game is on.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah.
Speaker 4:And no ball pickers. That's the Dalgog part. And then ball pickers Like we have ball pickers right now. And then fourth official substitution board is now we have deals, like last time. We don't have it. It's just like a school game. Give this one, check, check. Okay, you come out, come out that kind of thing. Like, not even Like it's really that primary school game where we are women's?
Speaker 2:Premier League, you know.
Speaker 4:And then, right now, social media, like James mentioned. Social media it's really, really. I think that's very the big thing, that is, that's caused the changes. I think, like people know where to go.
Speaker 1:It's awareness, isn't it? People are more aware that, firstly, there's a league Women are playing, a proper place to play as well. I think that's great Last time we don't have any of this.
Speaker 4:So like I'm really lucky to still play right now. So yeah, there's one moment I remember there's only like four or five things and you played three rounds of the league and it's better. It's better now. Last year we had seven, this year we have ten. Even like in one season we changed Last season we don't have any of the Dalgog. So in one season, like it's changed, so it's coming up.
Speaker 1:So there's progression. Do you see more women footballers taking up the sport now, like kids and stuff?
Speaker 4:Of course I do During my time. I don't remember primary school having like CCAs and probably it can be better like probably sports school having women's team. I'm looking forward to all that.
Speaker 1:That's a good shout.
Speaker 4:I'm not sure why there isn't yet, but there are a group because there are many girls playing.
Speaker 1:It's a very good shout and I haven't thought about this as well, because they've been around for a long time at the sports school and they don't have women's. Probably I'll ask them.
Speaker 2:I think what we're seeing, though, even with the schools that are playing, is, in some cases, they don't have enough girls to actually train and you need 20 girls to train. So even with the schools that have been identified now as centres of excellence, a lot of the time it's actually three or four schools coming together to train as one team, as one centre of excellence, and I think that's been the issue with sports school as well.
Speaker 1:Norman, you are the GM for it. Tell me the names of the two teams so that we don't get confused.
Speaker 3:So basically our club is called Aeron. Aeron is the main name for the clubs, because we have a big group of players, so we decided to participate in both leagues. So we have Steel Aeron that's participating in the WPL, the women's Premier League, and then we have Royer Aeron that's participating in the women's national league.
Speaker 1:And you know, when we talk about women's football and even the division one of the men's side of things as well, and usually the club officials are volunteers.
Speaker 2:Usually usually.
Speaker 1:So why do you guys do the things that you do? Why do you?
Speaker 2:spend your time, spend your money sometimes your own money, spend whatever.
Speaker 1:Why do you guys do this?
Speaker 3:I think it's a very good question. So I'm still trying to understand fully why we are doing this, but a few months ago, simon and Derek they gave us a shout out. They contacted me and, of course, some of the other officials. They said that Cafe Football and the Arena decided to adopt a women's football club.
Speaker 3:So it was like what is that? Tell me more. So they started explaining, sharing their vision, what they want to do, and I personally do not have sports related activities in my CV, so I'm quite ignorant to the sports scene in Singapore, to be very honest. But I'm also someone that likes to challenge myself and like to be doing something different and make myself uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:Are you uncomfortable now?
Speaker 3:Yes, actually I decided to join his podcast because I've never done one before, so it's quite fun. So a little bit uncomfortable, but I'm going into it. So we believe in the vision and we just try our best right. But what I'm lacking in terms of the knowledge in football, local football we have a very diverse team that is filling up the gaps. So Simon is an ex-national player, so he needs to know all the football that needs to be known.
Speaker 3:I can't bring any more value in football, so what I bring in is trying to add in some professionalism, organizational structure within the team management and then trying to bring the club forward with instilled discipline and things like that.
Speaker 1:It's a very good point that you made. Obviously, you're the GM and you're doing the things that you do and you're leaving the footballing side of things to the people who know football.
Speaker 1:That's great and at least that's happening in terms of the club. You leave the football side of things to the and, by the way, simon, he is from a cafe football. He's here, by the way, in the studio. You can't see him later we'll have a chat. He's here and he's the footballing person of the club James let's talk about I think Masturah talked about the social media part and stuff like that. On your part, on a personal level, what have you done? Because I see you promoting it marketing wise and even last season, when there was commentary on games.
Speaker 1:I saw that one TV here At least there's something awareness and stuff like that. So what have you done basically to create that?
Speaker 2:I think the reality is there's a lot of people out there that want to do something and have the energy and the time and the effort, and I got to be honest, I don't have the time a lot of the occasions. So there were a couple of groups that approached me and said that they wanted to do more to raise the profile and see what they can do. And, as I say, I don't have time, but I have a bit of money here and there and I can hopefully get the voice, get the message out there a little bit. So I was working with SG Women's Football in particular, helping fund them a little bit on some of their activities and one of the things we wanted to do was to have the games being live streamed Because, again, to give that opportunity, especially the young girls who maybe can't go out on their own and go to the stadium to show those matches.
Speaker 2:So last season we were able to pretty much live stream every single match because it was at Yixin. There was only three games on the weekend. It was nice and easy. This year has actually been a little bit more difficult, unfortunately. I've been traveling a lot. The games are in two different stadiums, there's five games on the weekend, sometimes the games are clashing and one or two of our other volunteers have either been unavailable or whatever, so we haven't managed to do as many games as we would like, but I think that's a big step. The SPL the games are being broadcast right, which means people can watch, and I think that's something we need to get back towards is getting those WPL games broadcast again, and it's something that we're going to work with FAA as well as with the rights holders to see what we can do to make that happen again.
Speaker 1:I think, amongst many things, that we are lacking in terms of the women's football. It's also good people, you're talking about volunteers and stuff. I think the good people who want to do it. We are lacking in those people who are coming out to do it. I'm sure you're lacking in men power, you know.
Speaker 2:I mean we've been shouting out for volunteers to be honest, if there's anyone out there. We've literally been saying we've got all the equipment, We've got the cameras, We've got the live streaming devices. We just need someone to stand there on the day and point and click kind of.
Speaker 3:Thing.
Speaker 2:And unfortunately sometimes that's hard and most of the volunteers we do get. We're still at that stage where the majority of volunteers are there because their daughter is playing.
Speaker 2:Their sister is playing their friend is playing, which unfortunately isn't so easy, then when you're trying to manage that, because if they're not playing, or if they're playing at a different place, it makes it hard to maneuver, whereas I think on the men's side there's been a core of volunteers over the years that are involved with the clubs and are committed, and it's not about a family member, it's about a connection, and I think that's something we need to build on the women's side.
Speaker 1:I think another thing that's been lacking, obviously, is the funding.
Speaker 2:I think, at least.
Speaker 1:And then you know, Norman, maybe I talk to you about this one. What is it? 20k, 30K per year.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I found that, and a portion of that goes into the insurance. If you ask me whether it's enough, like as to whatever you're doing, if there's any funding, this is never enough, right? Yeah, if there's this, if there's more and there's a way of us trying to lobby for it, of course we'll. As a club, we would be participating in that. What is important is as well, like what, what are we trying to do to to make this funding Relevant for for the club to grow? The club? I use it wisely.
Speaker 3:Yeah and I think, I think, as a club, we to move forward, we need, we need. We need to be financial, we need to be financially sustainable right. Otherwise we have to.
Speaker 1:I mean because most of the money, like you said, goes into insurance and obviously you've got the other aspects Right. If you do, you pay the players. Do you not pay the players?
Speaker 3:Yeah, at the moment at the moment for ariana we are not paying the players, so we are very I Think we are very blessed and happy that we have a big group of players is coming to play professionally. I mean professionally, as in they come in train professionally without any, any pay and they are so passionate about it, right. But as we move forward, what we want to be doing is to be able to to give this player some stipend, to give the stuff some stipends for them to.
Speaker 2:At least pay for that. Grab money right. Exactly. That's the way at least make sure they're not being out of pocket. That's got to be the goal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, listen. And to all the women footballers and who's watching this or who's gonna listen to this as well, shout out to you guys because, listen, you're doing this for absolutely nothing for absolutely zero.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think my story can share as well, you know, and it's it's, it's sad, you know, but it's how it is. But I think we need to make that, that, that progress towards, you know, payment and and what have you, because I think things need to be done right. And you know, I was on a podcast recently on Yahoo and I was talking about this. You know, if you want to do something, do it right. You know you can't go halfway and then you know it's, it's not right. Mars, you know, do you think we stand a better chance of reaching a Major to I don't say a World Cup, right a major tournament in the ladies game than a men's game? No disrespect to the men's game, but I'm talking about just opportunities there. Yes, definitely.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I discussed this. Right, I'm telling my friend, like I'm going this, like give me your inputs, like everybody has the same mindset. Yes, of course we are going there. We can have, we have a better chance. Definitely, like let's say, okay, right now, singapore, yes, we are progressing. But let's go to the neighborhood, like countries as young countries, like Thailand. They were in the World Cup twice. They missed out this, this, yes, philippines is doing well, you know so.
Speaker 1:Vietnam.
Speaker 2:Yeah, vietnam yeah.
Speaker 4:Vietnam. So If you ask me that, of course definitely, and players that we have city Rosnani, the nail is in document right now, right Like, we have players like these who are playing out there taking that lead, and then right now, probably Isan, if I'm yeah, yeah, those are the ones that.
Speaker 1:what was the standard? Like you know, if because, coming from a player, I think that's more legit right, let's say you take Thailand right now, at the present moment, and I was what was the standard? What's the gulf in difference that? Is it like Really big, that gap? I'm talking about Singapore and Thailand not much we are.
Speaker 4:Last time I had to admit we got trash okay, but I'm not sure whether how do I say? Whether it's Singapore people, Singapore football Progressing or the yes. Yeah, it is definitely dead. But we're to think back. Yes, we are. Yes, we are in the sea games. I was fine in the sea games team last year, the school and was yes, we lost, but it's something is happiness we add up everybody went to the locker room.
Speaker 2:That was the school 30 right from. That is about the gap. Right now is 304.
Speaker 4:Yeah and just like work up with they have that kind of it's not far off and we are getting there definitely.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So it's just just judging from that right and I think any one of you can can answer this as well it what needs to be done on the football level. Let's forget about funding and all these right on the football level the tactical part, the technical part, coaching wise and Something needs to be done, I'm sure.
Speaker 2:Master.
Speaker 1:I talk to you because you're the footballing person here.
Speaker 2:Long list coming.
Speaker 1:Criticizing anyone. We were just talking about how we can improve the game. That's a period, right? So what needs to be done? Tell me, mars.
Speaker 4:Yeah, probably technical. Right okay, support we need. We still need sport. We have a lot of sport. What we still need? Support like technical wise players. Um, right now, we, you, okay, you're trying to stray away from funding, but I feel that, yeah, no, no, I feel that Money matters, like right now, money matters that clubs where, like, who don't pay, please, tend to go to good place, play for clubs will be, of course, you know. So the margin, the margin is there, good?
Speaker 4:place out there and that's why that, like our Scoreline, I would say yeah, it matters so now to say woman football play for passion. That was before right now is getting very competitive and you cannot see. You cannot see women's play for passion right now, because passion don't put food on the table right now. So that is. That's the reason why we have good talented players from previous time, like I would say during my time.
Speaker 4:If we have this kind of support during my time we would be probably be somewhere you know, so like if we Like all the clubs. Okay, wait, I want to touch on like we have time to play, as previously, and this trio way, they stop playing because they need to find.
Speaker 2:They get married and you're not getting paid them. Why am I doing this exactly? Yeah, so they come for three.
Speaker 4:Not a single, not a single, and so I feel that that is the reason why people stop playing, and girls, parents probably also see that like once for or don't go anywhere, I won't let my daughter play. No, I have my daughter. I have daughter as well. I would want, I would still want my daughter to play, but of course I want to see Progressing and getting something from it. So if you want us, if I say what is, I would say money.
Speaker 1:And I think, in a way, we are stuck in a time zone or something. You're getting complacent, as in yeah, last time, we're doing it for passion now.
Speaker 2:So you're so passionate but you can't.
Speaker 1:We need to progress. We pay them and I think I want to bring up the next point, because then you have again We've got the LCS and the Tempani's, the two teams I think maybe from you know sources they are pink place. Naturally the players will move to these two clubs and the so-called better ones will move to these clubs and then the disparity, right the gap in the standards when two teams play.
Speaker 2:So it's partly about the paying, but to be honest, you know it's Paying is not the only reason players are choosing to join LCS. They're also choosing to join LCS because they're set up as professional. We point they know that you will develop as a better player and coach that. So the irony is you have the first and second choice. Women's National team goalkeepers are both there, yeah, even though they can't both play in a game, although they did this weekend because one of them played outfield. In fact, that's how that's how it is. But they're going there because they know that, in their opinion, they will get better coaching there.
Speaker 2:But I mean, you talk about what needs to change and say money is is at the root of everything, but it there's plenty of examples out there. You've only got a look at Spain and England and their journey is over the last 10 to 15 years to get to that World Cup final and you'll see that it basically it starts with getting goals playing at the grassroots, which means the schools and the academies. It starts with your league becoming semi-professional and then working towards professional.
Speaker 2:Which means there's a reason for people to stay in it. It starts with understanding that women's football is different to men's football. Just because someone can coach a men's team and coach men's players well, doesn't mean they can coach women well I can't. And having specialist, having specialist Training, as well as a specialist understanding of biomechanics and nutrition and things like Even things like periods and how to train during periods and and things like that becomes an important part that we're not at At the moment where we should be, and then how do you Adjust the game?
Speaker 2:so one of the one of the kind of continual queries at the moment is is on the women's side, they have national women's training all year round.
Speaker 2:Yeah alongside club training, which isn't happening on the men's side, and that is Historically. That's because the club training on the women's side wasn't good enough. The competition wasn't good enough. Is that still the case? I think at some clubs it possibly still is, but at other clubs, like LCS LCS would tell you they think they can train and develop the players just as well as the as the national team can. But until the league Reaches that point of being semi-professional, which means that the other teams, like Aryan and others, can attract, retain the players, attract and retain good coaches, that coaches want to coach women, not just coach the men's, that that actually becomes something to aspire to, then it will be a challenge.
Speaker 1:I think that's a very good point you made about, you know, the development part of clubs like LCS, because plays we want to go there naturally as well and the national team bit right. Was there any tug of war before between the national team and clubs before or not? Not now, but you know.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But that's. But that's because the clubs are trying to Professionalize, right. So the clubs are saying we've got these players, we want them to train five, six days a week with us to be the best players they can. And National teams saying, well, we're not sure the club is giving you that, so we want them to train with us. Yeah, and that's where the friction is coming from. In the past, the clubs could only afford to train the players Twice a week as well.
Speaker 1:Goes back to doing things right, right, so everything is done proper. You talk about, you talked about the semi-pro and moving towards that. Then there's no argument, there's no tug of war.
Speaker 1:You know, you training them right, I'm training them better, and all these nonsense right so things has got to be done right and Administratively and as well as at every other thing right now. The biggest news in the past couple of weeks is a couple of World Cup players are in town. Yeah, yeah, they are World Cup players from Thailand and they are in town and they are playing for wish club.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, and Mr Norman, how did you pull this off a lot. I'm not asking this question by the way. You look in social media Facebook and People are asking how the hell did you guys get World Cup players to play in Singapore? Tell us all.
Speaker 3:I would like to say, is my charm. But so I think when we, when cafe football and arena took over the club, we Discussed what's the vision, what's the goal, what do we want a run to be achieving in three to five years time? Right, and one of the big Thing, one of the big topic that we want to, we all agree on, is to make area on a club where most Female players would want to play for us. I like people look at us and say, hey, I want to play for it.
Speaker 3:Maybe like a LCS setup, but maybe we don't have that kind of Financial power, but but we, we're gonna, we're gonna build there and and get there.
Speaker 3:So. So we came up with a few small little milestones and projects, and one of the projects is, of course, to try and attract good, talented foreign players to come and play and first to come in to bring in that professionalism that they receive overseas into Singapore. Right, because what I see in the girls that we have right now I'm not saying for all, I'm not, I'm not discrediting them, but I see they like certain discipline, right, they come in with that social mindset and we want to really move from being a social club to a professional club. So we told that to the club owners and they overachieved and they brought in four workout players, right.
Speaker 3:This is this is this is very, very exciting and, of course, we want to be sustainable. We want to have a, have a. We want to be a club where we have possibly an academy where we can, we can have players coming in from different age group, coming in train and then develop them into what did you tell them? We tell them that there's an opportunity to play in Singapore for you to experience, and I think I think they want to come is also because the experience that they're gonna receive here and they want to see what the the standard of Singapore football is they've been here for how long?
Speaker 3:They came in July, first of July, and they've been training with us twice a week three times a week, sorry, and and I think they are enjoying it. I think the our players are enjoying it. They are like fighting for more time to train with them. Naturally, they become more confident when they touch the ball, when it receives the ball, and they fight for every ball during the game.
Speaker 1:This is a very good point. You know about the professionalism part and, and Maas, I think let me ask you, if you were training with a World Cup player, couple of World Cup players, right? What would you? I mean, there would be a change, isn't it, in the training, training ground? Yes, of course, atmosphere and mood yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:You just hype up the whole thing right even right now, like don't say, like okay, don't say World Cup, but some players go into a club and see some players as a star already okay understand. Yeah, so when World Cup players? Of course it matters, of course even the other couple of World Cup players wow, wow, wow.
Speaker 3:You want to drop by Gombak tomorrow? Wait, is this the first?
Speaker 2:ever live transfer on the parka, I think.
Speaker 1:Bellsik also, they're listening to this as well. They're just kidding, but yeah you know, it's a great opportunity for the, especially the youngsters as well. Looking up to them and see how they train is the same thing with the men's football as well. You look at a foreigner coming in and you know top-notch football and you learning from them as well, you know.
Speaker 3:I think that that's very important and one of the other projects we are also looking to build on is to try and send some of our players overseas to train, to develop themselves and and to get some hardship. I think the Singaporeans can be a bit like we are very comfortable, we're happy, but if you train overseas, I think it's very different like the dead girls and all right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah that's.
Speaker 3:That's one of our goals as well.
Speaker 1:Excellent, james. Any last words from you. You know what you want to see in Singapore football with, with the women's, obviously, and how do we go forward? Just just name a few things that you think can can put us there, you know, to take that next step, because at the moment I feel that we can do more, but we need the right people, man.
Speaker 2:I think there's a couple of things that would that would cause a sea change if we could do it. One is is getting more scholarship opportunities, and we've seen FAS has done a good job of that the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 2:Getting some, some girls into the US because for Singaporeans, where education is very important, everyone wants their kid to be a doctor, a lawyer. The opportunity to go to university in the US on a scholarship right, even if it's playing soccer right, we'll get a lot of parents attention. So I think that scholarship piece is number one. The number two, as we talked about earlier, really around how do we get this league to be semi-professional, to be professional. So again, the standard is raising because there's no substitute. You can send a few players overseas here and there, but there's no substitute for having a better domestic league. But ultimately, what would be really nice you know we talk a lot about gold 2034 and all those kind of things what is the women's football?
Speaker 2:master plan and and I sit on the women's football committee and we have a lot of discussion about a lot of things. But I think I think it's now that we've kind of dipped our toe in the water and we've moved a little bit, I think it's time that we set out really, what is the, what is the direction, so that if I'm a, if I'm a parent, if I'm maz and I've got a young daughter, that I can sit there and say, okay, ten years from now, this is where women's football is, is going to be. And I think we need to be a little bit more confident and a little bit more vocal about what that direction is, so that sponsors and parents and other stakeholders and clubs can join on that journey nice, nice.
Speaker 1:How about you, norman?
Speaker 3:I mean I'm not that I'm not looking that far compared to James. I mean he's done, stunned, a really good job in summarizing what is important strategically, but what I'm looking now is more shorter, more technically right, like you're talking about funding, it's it's not enough. It's not only funding right, but it's also the availability of training pitchers, pitchers, I mean, if you can't even train properly, then then how are we gonna build up? Just touching on this, you can continue after this.
Speaker 1:I was I was talking about this on the last podcast as well and again I saw some some things that I didn't like. You know, training at that particular stadium with two floodlights only, and then you're training in the dark, with five people in there and the coach in there and listen.
Speaker 1:As a coach as well, you can be the best coach in the world. When you come down, you see five players there. You see two lights on exactly you. You don't get motivated to do anything, yeah, and so in that sense, you, you're right about that, yeah and Let me get back my train of thoughts, no problem.
Speaker 3:But yeah, I mean, I'm not sure if there's a way for FAS and because I understand FAS is running the football stuff and Active SG is running all the pitches, so I'm not sure if there's a way for them to work together rather than silos, what's what Leash the Roar is supposed to be right?
Speaker 3:So hopefully that brings us a bit further. And I also think that the fans right, I mean, no matter what we are doing, we are playing On the end of the day, we're playing for fans, right? There's no fans who, if no one's going to watch the game, then the game is not going to develop, right? So there's a way for us to engage the fans, to bring the fans back to watching football. I mean, I think I was very passionate about Singapore football when I was young. My dad bring me to the stadium Malaysia Cup and everything that's exciting, and then, as I think, when Singapore's came up from the Malaysia Cup, then everything went a bit more stagnant. I'm not sure how we're going to do it, but we're going to try to engage fans to come and watch everyone's game. You know, weekends, fan meets and getting them to buy jerseys and things like that so cafe.
Speaker 1:Football for Cafe football.
Speaker 3:for, yeah, we're going to probably give some vouchers to come and watch the game, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're right, and listen, you spoke about the fans and the crowd watching the games. Right, I'm ignorant. What are the fans like, as in watching games? Okay, numbers wise, I mean Couple of hundred.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, couple of hundred.
Speaker 4:It's not that bad.
Speaker 1:Okay, masa, what about you? Any changes you would like to see to take us to the next level, Because we can't remain here as Thailand goes better, as Vietnam gets better, as Laos gets better, you know all these clubs getting better or countries getting better. We need to make changes, right? What do you see? Oh, how can we go forward? Mas, I know you've got a freaking long list, but try to summarize.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but like I think earlier on, like James mentioned, because I was all going about money, money, money. But like James mentioned earlier, like it starts from grassroots, getting girls involved, we get many girls playing and then it would naturally just yep, get bigger almost always just get bigger. So one step at a time, like we don't look, we don't talk about 2034, I just know, like just now, I think recently, fas has opened up the girls' cup again, like yeah, that's a good start.
Speaker 4:I smile when I see that we were sharing our friend Meeza, you know.
Speaker 1:Meeza.
Speaker 4:We were sharing about Mas Luuk, their opening. That's a good start and I hope that stays, because we used to have and then COVID, I think, is it COVID, covid, maybe stop? Now we are like getting there again. Like, yeah, I think I would just start from there and get more girls to play.
Speaker 1:I think it's the. I think what you're talking about is the opportunities for them to play.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and where to go? Like details where to go. Where can I send my girl to you? Know yeah all these marketing problems, I don't know where to go.
Speaker 1:You can share the list with me later on, you know, on the next yeah.
Speaker 1:But right, you know, I think, and, and lady and gentlemen, I know thanks for being here on the podcast and I think we haven't even covered like half of what we want to. Maybe you know, but you know we can go on and on, but I think that the moral of the story is basically it's women's football is exciting, it's coming up, it's progressing, but we need to do more. All stakeholders, you know we can't even, you know, we start pointing fingers at their FA and all. But it's not only FA, it's the whole. You know the ecosystem has got to change, it's got to move forward. So in that sense, I think, firstly, I got to thank James for doing a great job, as you know, the main sponsor with the Lloyd and stuff and for being here. Absolutely brilliant, norman, obviously, for you know, volunteering and doing a great job as the GM as well. I think. You know, as you said, you know it's a passion project.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a passion project and I think the women that are playing makes it all worth it. Exactly brilliant.
Speaker 1:That's great stuff and Maas thanks for being here as well, and you know I think it's and the youngest player ever for Singapore you know, hopefully somebody breaks it, but I don't think any more. But yeah, you know, and hopefully you get back into the national team.
Speaker 2:Unfinished business finish that business.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I think we need to see that, right, guys, this has been excellent. This has been the latest episode of the Silver Fox Hustle football project, or football episode, a football talk episode, and till the next time we shall see you again, cheers.