Chris Baker, President and Co-Founder of FranchiseFlipper (www.franchiseflippers.com) shares his experience and stories of being a serial entrepreneur. Chris has built and sold several businesses and he shares a story of a big financial loss too.
If you are ready to talk about franchising your business you can schedule your free, no obligation, franchise consultation by visiting: https://bigskyfranchiseteam.com/.
Show Notes Reference:
Marcus Cuningham - "First Break All the Rules" Can be purchased on Amazon HERE.
Follow Franchise Flippers
Chris Baker, President and Co-Founder of FranchiseFlipper (www.franchiseflippers.com) shares his experience and stories of being a serial entrepreneur. Chris has built and sold several businesses and he shares a story of a big financial loss too.
If you are ready to talk about franchising your business you can schedule your free, no obligation, franchise consultation by visiting: https://bigskyfranchiseteam.com/.
Show Notes Reference:
Marcus Cuningham - "First Break All the Rules" Can be purchased on Amazon HERE.
Follow Franchise Flippers
[Inaudible],
Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:You've worked hard to build your business. And now it's time to grow. Welcome to the multiply your success podcast. I'm your host, Tom[inaudible] for CEO of big sky franchise team and a serial entrepreneur. Join me each week. As I interviewed leading entrepreneurs, executives and experts who share their misses sense in multipliers, if you are a growth minded entrepreneur investor or franchise company, then this podcast is for you. If there's one thing I've learned in business and in life it's that you can always learn something new to make things better. Our purpose for this podcast is for you to glean some wisdom and practical ideas to implement on your expansion journey. We look forward to being your guide, to multiply your success. Welcome to the latest edition of multiply your success. And I'm wondering, have you ever lost any money? You know, maybe a friendly wager with a, with a friend or a family member, you know maybe a friendly wager for a dinner or 20 bucks here or there for any kind of anything like that, or maybe, maybe you spent some money on a, on an Amazon purchase and you got thought, Oh boy, that was a terrible decision. Why did I buy that? And you never return it. Well, have you ever made a$425,000 mistake? Well, our guest today Chris Baker shares his story about how he did just that. And Chris is someone that I've known for many years. He has a great story. You are not going to want to miss this one. We're going to jump right into it. He's been a client, a referral, and just an all around great person someone that I have gone to in the past for advice in his wisdom. And I am so thankful and enthused to have some, some of his wisdom to share with you today. So without further ado, here's my interview with Chris Baker, maybe to get things started for the listeners. Give us a little background. Tell us about yourself.
Chris Baker - Franchise Flippers:I'm a Chris Baker. I'm currently the president of franchise flippers. Let's talk about that a little bit more. I'm the proud father of two mid twenties daughters. One of whom has blessed us already with a couple of grandchildren. So I stay busy with them and live in sunny, Fort Collins, Colorado, where apparently there are more days of sunshine a year than San Diego.
Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:It's a great place to be when the sunshine and it definitely makes a difference that's for sure. No kidding. Well can you give us a little background you know, we have an audience that tends to be entrepreneurs, people who are Aspiring entrepreneurs and maybe give us a little background on your entrepreneurial journey. I think you are a great a great example of someone that has been a serial entrepreneur. And so I think you've got a great story to share. So fire away.
Chris Baker - Franchise Flippers:Sure. Thanks. Thanks Tom. I've heard the term serial entrepreneur. My kids tell me I like cereal. So I I've had that bug forever. My I grew up in a family of entrepreneurs. My dad had multiple businesses when I was a kid and I remember dinner conversations centered around business, even as a seven or eight year old child. I vividly remember mom and dad talking business. It just is ingrained in me. I started my first business at 14 and employed folks to walk up and down main street. I lived in England and we called it the high street there. So we employed a guys from my high school to walk up and down main street with sandwich boards is what we called them a billboards essentially. And I would charge local small businesses to advertise their wares on these boards. And we would walk up and down main street with them and to make it to make the labor less expensive. I put little tables on these things and folks could do their homework while they walked. So that enabled me to pay them less asking. And the brilliant guy grew that business and sold that. I, I think I was about 17 when I sold it. Wow. My, my first success story. So then I was involved in the very early days of franchising in England. I'm not even sure we knew what a franchise was at the time, but my family were in the food industry, the bakery industry, and we sold delivery routes, which we called franchises and so early days, and that was fun. They want us to distribute our product to a much wider audience with more efficiency. And so that was my first foray into the franchising world. And then I'm in my early twenties decided that the world was a much larger place than England and traveled and took a couple of years to travel the world, get great ideas and settled in America, met a beautiful lady in Denver, settled down. And I started a little business school, the menu book, which was a, actually a complete disaster tumbler because we, we allowed restaurants to put their menus into a magazine we produced and we would deliver the magazine to office buildings all over the Metro Denver area. And there were a couple of fundamental issues with it. Number one, a restaurant restaurant tours are very busy and they get inundated with advertising opportunities. And this was another one. And and so first of all, getting, getting them to advertise was tricky. When you did get them to commit, they wanted to pay you in food. And so I remember putting on about 30 pounds, just trading food instead of money and over money and, and any way we had fun with that. I sold that business to a friend and I think actually it became a thing called the downtown Denver guidance still exists. So a wow 25 years ago. And then for the, for the first time in my career, I took a job and I was number five, employee number five and a very small company and the employment background screening business. And this was before anybody knew what that was. And so I went to work for a small company in Fort Collins, Colorado as a sales guy, selling background checks. And the reason I did it was I couldn't think of a single company that didn't need background checks and a good point most of highest save on is competent people. And and as a sales guy at high hard, I thought, well, everybody needs it. So I ended up being an executive in that company, part of the senior leadership team. And we sold that business to ADP in 2001. And and I worked for the rent. I'm sure, by the way, I'm sure the listeners are wondering, they hear 2001 was that pre or post.com we closed on September 1st. Oh my goodness. Yeah. some of that deal was a stock in ADP and of course, like everybody else ADP stopped. It suffer for a while though, since then it's done miraculously well, great solid company and proud to have been a part of their organization, but the timing was excellent for us and not so great for the United States. At the time I worked for ADP for a couple of years, the only time I've really ever had a corporate job, I loved them great company. But I watched out background screening company be absorbed into a big enterprise. And the entrepreneur in me thought, well, after my two years of corporate work, maybe I could go do this again and start again. And so they were gracious enough to let me out of my non-compete and let me start again. And I did that and we started a beautiful company. We called it tandem select, and we probably the most fun I've ever had in business until that time grew that company and sold that off to six years. A VC group led by a company out of New York city. So yeah, that was a fun one. Wow. That sounds like it. Wow. And so I could go on all day time. You're probably bought already, but I took two, I was 45 years old. I took a couple of days off and and discovered myself. And and so we'll dive into this as one of the misses of my career. I started a little business called minify music and we'll, we'll touch on that in a little bit for a couple of years sold it. And that led me into the school communications agency, which was my first time back into franchising. So that's what I meant. You, Tom, actually, you take that business and become a franchise or right experience with you. Thank you for that. And and that experience in franchising led me to franchise flippers. The idea behind flippers was that we needed to sell company on units. And at the time we couldn't find any way to sell our company on stores. We, there wasn't really an effective marketplace to divest of a franchise resell specific franchise resell, lots of places. You could advertise a business. But no way dedicated to franchise is, and out of necessity, which is a great way to start a business. We started out in exchange really to sell our own corporate entities and and that led into what will become the world's premier franchise restyle exchange when that's what I do now. Wow. Glad you asked. I'm sure.
Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:Yeah. Oh my goodness. Well, I hope that the folks who are listening here are, you know, their gears are turning, thinking about all of the things that you've done. And and I'm always amazed when I hear that. When you, as a teenager, you start a basically an advertising business do with sandwich boards, you know, that you figured out a way and your innovation and ingenuity, even something small saying, Hey, if I can figure out a way for the kids to do their homework while they're standing there with the sandwich board on, then I don't have to pay them as much. They may might be willing to work for less because now they're doing a two for one. So wait a minute, I'm getting paid to do my homework. Why not? Sure. That sounds great.
Chris Baker - Franchise Flippers:That's a multiplier.
Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:Yeah, that's exactly right. That, that, that's perfect. And one of our multipliers here. No, that's perfect. And so anyway, I think it's a great point for our audience to think about as is you've, you've gone into so many different industries and verticals and, and I'm sure those same kinds of things stick around. So we'll, we'll dive into that in a minute, but let's jump into some of these let's jump in, we've talked, I'd like to talk a little bit about some of the makes that came along the way here. So we've talked about, you know, what you've done, but when you think about building and selling a business, there's a lot involved to get to that point and growing it to a certain level. So I'm sure there were things along the way that you that happen maybe a a good decision that popped along. So maybe share something that, that you think was a, was a key, key decision or make along the way there.
Chris Baker - Franchise Flippers:Yeah. Great, good question. I remember being in the employment background screening business I had started tandem select in 2006. Not a great time to go into the employment background screening business. Your revenue is derived from people being hired and when 2007, eight hit and companies started slow down. And weren't hiring, it's not a great time to be doing background checks. And I remember standing in a seven 11 in my hometown Fort Collins with my daughter who at the time would have been about nine years old. And Lizzie said you know, we're in the middle of a recession. And he said, dad why is seven 11 so busy when all of the other places are quiet? And I said, well, a great question. Why do you think? And she said, well, because people still need hotdogs. And they, okay. I looked at the seven 11, how crowded it was, Tom and restaurants were empty. Businesses were slowing down. And it occurred to me that if we're going to do background checks and grow, why wouldn't we do them for convenience stores, gasoline distributors. So, because of Lizzy's foresight on why they were busy, we we retooled our sales department and when everybody else was laying folks off, I grew and we went specifically after C-stores convenience stores. And yeah, when everybody else was laying off, they were hiring and that grew our company. And so we had a exponential growth while the rest of the industry constricted. And so I think about that being a Mick listening to advice, and it doesn't always come from the experts or the people you think it will come from. It came from a nine year old young lady who is following in my footsteps now as an entrepreneur.
Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:Oh, that's so wonderful. I mean, truly what an incredible story how many, how many parents out there myself included, you hear your kids say something? My kids are about the same age that Lizzie was at the time. And you know, they're always asking and trying to learn things at that age and how many parents would have just neglected that, or have not, not paid any attention to it and just, you know, kind of fluffed it off. So I mean, I think that's a great testimony to you. Not only as a father, I think that's a great testimony to you as a father for paying attention to your kids. But, but also thinking about it, I mean, that, that takes, takes some real a goal or, or you know, to, to jump in and focus on that on that segment there,
Chris Baker - Franchise Flippers:Which you know, it's a great point, Tom, you know, listen, seek advice and listen to advice from, from sources where you wouldn't normally consider to be valuable. You don't always need a high priced consultant. Sometimes it's a friend, sometimes it's a child. We do our best thinking as entrepreneurs we're downs made it very possible to do a voice dictation. I can't tell you how many times I wake up at three 23 in the morning and my phone right there, and I'll dictate a 20, 30 minute dissertation to myself about business ideas. I'm so glad I do, because I don't remember any of it in the morning until I listened to that. So I think, listen and hear
Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:Mm Hmm. Great. Well as we get down to the the, the other big, one of the other big questions we like to ask is about misses. And I don't like to try and think of things as wins and losses because it indicates that there's some kind of a finite finality to it. But I, I look at it as, you know, we, you know, there are ups and downs in and people's life and in their business journey and in their entrepreneurial journey. And so that's why I like this question about mrs. W was there something that maybe happened or you learned from that you could share with us?
Chris Baker - Franchise Flippers:Yeah. Well, one one in particular Tom comes to mind when I spent that little period of time off to selling a tandem semi retired, I was at my mountain home and my wife called and said, can you bring the Christmas CDs back at, back in the day when we had compact discs? And so I sent you all and I rounded up the compact is the CDs for Christmas music. And I had a dear friend Dave staying at the cabin that weekend. And one of the CDs rolled across the floor. And I remember it vividly, the CD rolls across the floor as they do. And Dave looked to me and he said, Chris, when are you going to put all your music on your iPod? And I said, I don't know how to do that. So he said, well, you just put it in your laptop when you record it to digital. And I said, well, I guess the answer is when one of my teenage daughters spends the time to do that. How long does that take? I have 2000 CDs. And Dave said, well, I'm a tech guy. Maybe I could string a couple of drives together and you could do two at once. And I said, well, Dave, if you can do two, why can't you do four? Well, we could probably do full, okay, well, if you can do full, why can't you do 12? Well, we could probably do 12. I said, that's just, that's leverage, right? That's applied. I put 12 of these things together and it's like, whack-a-mole now. And I can load these things. I can load them. I can digitize them, Tom. The worst, the worst possible way to start a business is when you have this harebrained idea about something you need, I needed my CDs ripped or transferred. And so they, and I put about$400,000 into building a technology that would allow us to go to people's homes. We called it minify music. And we built a box where you could load CDs and as fast you could load them, what would transfer the music to digital? And and a couple of things happened. Number one, we built it. We we built an office. We employed people. We spent a ton of money branding, and we never once asked anybody if they would pay for the service. And so, you know, laugh about it now, but you know,$425,000 later, we started to market the service. Nobody wanted it. And it was right at the time when Spotify came along, I think Apple music may have been developed then, but all of a sudden people bypass CDs, being digitized and went straight to streaming services. The mist that Tom was, if I were to do it again, I would have advertised the service, taking bookings for the service. And then the technology, if I were building a hotel today, I would probably have reservations for the rooms before I break ground. And so the lesson learned there, Tom was you know, don't start a business because you think you might use it and, you know, make sure somebody else will, and then take bookings, take reservations test the market, gauge the pricing before you invest a ton of money in it. So that was a write off for a year. Wow. Wow, great fun doing that business. And the great news is all 2000 of my CDs and now in the cloud. And so I dunno what to cut for 400,000 for 200 or for 2000 CDs. Somebody smart could do the math, but I have great music.
Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:Oh, that's great. Well, now you can listen to any music of your choice that you prefer any time.
Chris Baker - Franchise Flippers:Yeah. I would've been better off taking that money and investing in Spotify, I think.
Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:Oh, goodness. Well that's great. And I know I still have a CD cases full of CDs that need to be transferred. So I, I'm probably in that grouping that just never got around to it. And by the time I would have all the streaming stuff has come out and I said, well well, I'll just, you know, stream it on Spotify or whatever,
Chris Baker - Franchise Flippers:Right? So the takeaway Tom is, you know, do your homework neutral. There's a market for the product that you need and get reservations or bookings for it in advance. Tell people, you know, we're building this system. They tell you the crowdfunding concept is so clever. I love funding because these are companies who are saying, look, we have an idea. We have a passion for it. We think other people will need it. If you buy now, you'll get the first one could take a month. It could take six. But I think crowdfunding is a terrific concept to really gauge market acceptance. So there you go.
Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:Well, that's great advice, great advice for our, for our listeners here. And the other M we like to talk about is multipliers. So you know, as you've gone through this can you share a multiplier that you thought helped multiply your success as you are going through this?
Chris Baker - Franchise Flippers:Hmm. You know it occurs to me that the businesses that have been wild successes for me I can't take credit for it. There's always been a strong partner. There has been somebody that came alongside me as an equity holder or some kind of ponder. And I don't have the monopoly on all good ideas. In fact in the absence of my judgment, most things that just find normally, and sometimes having a strong business partner as a sounding board and a no person, I know you can easily surround yourself with yes. People when you're successful, but sometimes having the deviant voice in the room or the person who's willing to stand up and say, no is critical. And so a multiplier for me has been having very strong business partners, Jeremy pull by my partner now and franchise flippers. We compliment each other so perfectly. We have strengths and weaknesses that we are offset with each other. And we challenge each other's thinking. And so the first multiplier is strong business partners when appropriate. That the second would be of course, the people, sorry,
Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:Can I, can I interrupt you there for a second? Cause this, this, this idea of partners comes up a lot and you've had great success with partners from what you're describing here. So I'm just going to kind of take this off in a thought, just hit me here. Would you mind sharing how these partnerships have worked? I've heard just horror stories of part of our ships falling apart or not working. And in many cases ending like a bad divorce where there's just lots of fighting attorney's fees and so on involved. So you've sounds like had many successful partnerships or where it worked out very well. Are there any tricks you might share on that end? That sounds like a huge success there?
Chris Baker - Franchise Flippers:I think the first one is that in, in all business partnerships we've been evenly yoked or equally yoked. I'm a believer and so I've sought business partners who have similar philosophies. So that's been the first thing be evenly yoked. Second is that doesn't mean you have to have the, exactly the same skill sets. In fact, quite the opposite. In every partnership I've had complementary skills are important but the background screening company, I'm a terrible operations person. I'm just, I don't operationalize my thinking. And to be honest with you, I'm probably not a good manager. I'm a great leader, but not a good manager. Katie, my partner in that business was process driven and to fill the role of chief offer chief operating officer and that enable me to do the things I love. And so I was growing the company and being the entrepreneur and being the face of the business while Katie minded the store, if you will have, we both had the same skill set we would have it wouldn't have Jeremy is definitely very operations driven, not so much sales but it has an operational heart and spirit and and so complimentary skills there too. And, and also be willing to listen. You've got to set aside your personality and your and what you think are strengths sometimes and listen to the other person, even if it's in an area where you think you have all the skills and they challenge you on something, listen. So be evenly yoked have complimentary skills and not necessarily the same skills and listen to your partner. You know, you, you go into a marriage and everything's new and exciting in the beginning and there's a level of trust and that's the same as a business partnership. You can keep that honeymoon period going, if you are authentic and you operate with integrity and you listen to your part.
Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:Hmm. That's great. Great advice. Great advice for anyone who's tuning in who's has a partner, or is thinking about going into business with a partner he, this disadvantaged, this is great, great suggestions from someone who's been through it. So thank you for sharing that. And I kind of interrupted you when you were going through your, you know, some of these multipliers, was there another one or two you wanted to mention there?
Chris Baker - Franchise Flippers:I think it w I don't know how many people I've worked with over the years and employed. But I can tell you the greatest multiplier is the people that work for you. And we joked about the tabletop for the homework, but it did a couple of things. It enabled me to leverage folks, but it also gave them purpose. It gave them something beyond work. And so making sure that you hire smart Marcus Buckingham's books are terrific. I don't know if you've read those first break. All the rules is something I've read many times getting the right people on the bus, not necessarily in the right seats in the beginning, I've hired talent and I didn't have roles for them. So sometimes somebody comes into your life and, you know, they're going to be a great fit, culturally, they work you're like them, and sometimes you don't quite have the right role for them, Tom, but if you have the luxury of hiring for talent first and then finding the right role or them finding it in your organization, that's great. So but one of the greatest multiplies has been the people I've worked with and been able to inspire some of whom wanted to compete with me. And we supported that always loved it. When one of the folks who came to work for us would want to go, well, I want to go do what we did and do it better. And so there were a couple of people that come to mind where we sponsored them into their own businesses and as the greatest joy. Wow. So that's a multiplier. I've never had too much trouble raising capital, but yet when you have to a multiplier, of course, is access to inexpensive capital. One of the greatest things about the American business system is ability to raise capital. And so I think I've been blessed to be able to do that. So partnerships, people good access to capital and and a supportive spouse. Who's always letting me leverage our home when I need it.
Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:Oh, for sure. Absolutely. I can relate. I, I understand that. And you know, it's interesting. I had a instill, I should say, had have a, someone that I consider to be a a mentor that I had worked for early on in my career. And when decided to go entrepreneurial you know, you're always nervous to tell someone that you've, you're working for that, Hey, I'm going to go do my own thing. Fortunately in this case it was a noncompeting business, but it was you never know. And he, he was handled, it sounds just like you did very supportive said whatever I can do to help. And you know, it's something that I look at in my role to say, how can I support someone else? You know, that pay it forward, kind of a thing. How can I give someone else help someone else through that? So I'm certain the folks that you've helped hope I would think are, will be paying others back as well, or paying it forward, I should say,
Chris Baker - Franchise Flippers:Right? They say, you know, as you climb the ladder, be, be careful who you step on. We can all boats rise, Tom. And yeah, we talked about this before, but franchising is probably one of the greatest leverage tools also, or multipliers when you know, your own strengths and weaknesses. And you can you can fill the gaps with a system or a process or a person that compliments you franchising is probably the greatest example. You may not be the most entrepreneurial person in the world, but you may be an entrepreneur, somebody, but I define an entrepreneur as somebody within a system could be a large corporation or a franchise system who has drive and enthusiasm, but may lack some of the skills that a franchise all brings to the table. Starting your own division within a large corporation is another way to be an entrepreneur. And so some of us, so for some people, entrepreneurial is scary, but intrepreneur is a great way to get into that world.
Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:Yep. I love it. I love it. And as a, as a closing question, it's something we ask every guest here is what does success mean to you?
Chris Baker - Franchise Flippers:Oh, Tom, what a great question. I mean, you know, the first thing success to me is that about two o'clock today, my daughter will be dropping off my grandson and I get to spend a couple of hours with him goofing off during the middle of the day. So success to me as I, you know, mid fifties now success is the ability to manage your own time. It's not always easy. I couldn't do it in my thirties when we were growing businesses, but now on reflection, I could have done a better job managing my time. So success is the ability to be where I need to be when I need to be there. Now take a couple of hours off during the day. And that works line for a while. While I hang out with with my little guy success is looking around me at the people with inspired or motivated to do their own thing. I look at the businesses around Fort Collins now that we were part of starting. And that brings me joy, just seeing that those folks are doing well. And so I think that's it. I think the freedom and flexibility that comes from having made financial success and the fact that we've mentored and motivated others to do the same. It's never been about the money, Tom, I can with absolute clarity, say that I never did this to make money. I did this because my canvas is business. I'm not a great artist, but I get to paint the most incredible artwork on a canvas of business. And and some of my passion and my hobby, if you like has been growing things. And so success for me is having really never worked a day in my life. Just, just being able to paint on a canvas of business that's success. Wow.
Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:Wow. Great way to close. Well, Chris, thank you for being here again. Chris Baker his current venture is franchise flippers. So feel free to check that out franchise flippers.com and Chris, thank you again for your time and really inspiration and motivation for our audience. Thank you so much.
Chris Baker - Franchise Flippers:Thanks Tom. Great seeing you again.
Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:Wow. What an interview there, Chris, thank you again for joining us truly just amazing information for you to have shared and what what just an experience and a wealth of knowledge you bring. So let let's go through and kind of recap some of what Chris talked through here. I, I think there were some, some big items that, that we can take away from this. I think first and foremost, what he said was seek advice and listen to the advice from, from sources that you wouldn't always look for that advice. So I think that's important. He said, listen in here, listen in here. How often do we get advice or get great advice? And we, we do nothing with it or we neglect it. So I think that's a good one for all of us. He also said do your homework and make sure there's a market for it. And I think we can all apply that to our businesses, whether maybe it's a new product or a new service or a new company you might be interested in starting do your homework and makes sure there's a market for it. At one, one thing that really stood out here was this idea about going into business with partners. I don't know for about you as a listener, but you know most people will tell you don't go into business with a partner. Well, Chris seems to think that the best way to have the greatest success is with a partner. And when you find that partner, you need to make sure there are a few key things that he said about having success with a partner. And these were key critical takeaways. Number one, he said, you want to make sure that you have complimentary skills and that's really, really important. Number two, he said have make sure that each of you are being compensated or have the same opportunity to be compensated and, and basically get, get a reward for your effort. And number three was listen to your partner and you know, not all too different from having a great spouse or, or a wife or husband that, that you are spending your life with. So I thought that was, I thought that was great. We we, we, we also, he also mentioned a reference to a book and a few other things, and we'll make sure if you scroll down in our show notes, we'll have links to those things available so that you can reference them. We'll have links back to Chris's business as well, a flat franchise, flippers.com. And and, and he closed by saying he views business. He said, he's not an artist, but he views business as his way of painting on a canvas that, that business is his canvas. So he's, he's painting on the canvas of business. And that was just a a beautiful image in my mind. And I think for all of you listening in, I think you can relate to that. So how are you using what are you painting on your canvas? What are you painting on your canvas in your world of business? So that's great, great perspective for us. So to close out the episode today with our win win for the day, I think it's pretty clear and obvious what that would be from Chris's standpoint. What we learned from him is when you come into a partnership with the mentality of a win win, and your partner comes in with that mentality of a win-win magical things can happen. And I think we can apply that to our business partnerships with an actual business partner, with a with maybe a strategic partner or a vendor or a supplier. I think we can also apply this to our personal life with our spouse with our, with our children, with our friends. So if, if someone, if both parties are coming in with that win, win mentality, I think amazing and magical things can happen. And so that's our episode for today. Thank you for tuning in. Please subscribe, please forward this to anyone you think in your life who may be able to benefit from some of the wisdom and information and little bits of knowledge. You're able to glean from this thanks for tuning in, and we'll see you back Next week.[inaudible].