Multiply Your Success with Tom DuFore

Bob Steinhardt, CPA - Avoiding IRS Red Flags

July 06, 2020 BigSkyFranchiseTeam.com - Franchise Your Business Episode 4
Multiply Your Success with Tom DuFore
Bob Steinhardt, CPA - Avoiding IRS Red Flags
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Multiply Your Success with Tom DuFore
Bob Steinhardt, CPA - Avoiding IRS Red Flags
Jul 06, 2020 Episode 4
BigSkyFranchiseTeam.com - Franchise Your Business

Bob Steinhardt, a partner with Carr, Riggs, and Ingram, joins the Multiply Your Success Podcast this week.  He shares his misses, makes, and multipliers with us and a BIG lesson on how to help avoid unnecessary attention from the IRS.

Try the 2-hour challenge!!  Email Bob and see if he responds back!  If he does, maybe you should ask him how his firm can help you out!   

  • Bob's email is: bsteinhardt@cricpa.com
  • Bob's bio and contact information: CLICK HERE.
  • PPP Rules Update from the Navigating the Coronavirus Series by Big Sky Franchise Team.  CLICK HERE.
Show Notes Transcript

Bob Steinhardt, a partner with Carr, Riggs, and Ingram, joins the Multiply Your Success Podcast this week.  He shares his misses, makes, and multipliers with us and a BIG lesson on how to help avoid unnecessary attention from the IRS.

Try the 2-hour challenge!!  Email Bob and see if he responds back!  If he does, maybe you should ask him how his firm can help you out!   

  • Bob's email is: bsteinhardt@cricpa.com
  • Bob's bio and contact information: CLICK HERE.
  • PPP Rules Update from the Navigating the Coronavirus Series by Big Sky Franchise Team.  CLICK HERE.
Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:

You've worked hard to build your business. And now it's time to grow. Welcome to the multiply your success podcast. I'm your host, Tom DuFore CEO of big sky franchise team and a serial entrepreneur. Join me each week. As I interview leading entrepreneurs, executives and experts who share their misses makes and multipliers. If you are a growth minded entrepreneur investor or franchise company, then this podcast is for you. If there's one thing I've learned in business and in life it's that you can always learn something new to make things better. Our purpose for this podcast is for you to glean some wisdom and practical ideas to implement on your expansion journey. We look forward to being your guide to multiply your success. Welcome to this latest edition of the multiply your success podcast. Thanks for tuning in, and if you haven't done so already, please subscribe through your favorite podcast, listening service, such as Apple podcast or Google podcast or Spotify, and make sure you give us a five star review or like us on your favorite social media account. Thank you so much. So to get us going today, I want to open up with, with this past weekend being the 4th of July, I thought I'd start with a little quote here. And the quote goes as follows. "Our new constitution is now established and has an appearance that promises permanency, but in this world, nothing can be said to be certain except death and taxes." That is a quote from a letter written by? Can you guess it? Benjamin Franklin written in 1789 to John Baptiste Leroy in a letter that he had written there and thank you to the Adam Smith Institute who had published that information, but a pretty interesting quote. And I think it kind of ties into our interview today with our guests who is Bob Steinhardt . And Bob is a CPA and a partner with Carr Riggs and Ingram Carr Riggs and Ingram is one of the largest accounting and CPA firms in the United States. He is someone who I've worked with for many years and has over time become just a trusted advisor and someone that I look to in times of need who has and serves his customers well. So I think you will really enjoy this. And for those of you who are tuning in as well, he talks about some, some very common misstep that catches the eye of the IRS. So for most business owners, if you're tuning in, this is one you want to hear and Bob also just so that the listeners know, joined us on our navigating the coronavirus economy series that we've been hosting, and he did a session on the updated PPP guidelines. So if you're interested in learning a little bit more about that, you can check that out on our website and we'll leave a link in the show notes as well. So without further ado, here's my interview with Bob Steinhardt , Bob, to get things started here. We'd just like to learn a little bit about you give us a little background.

Bob Steinhardt, CPA - Carr, Riggs, and Ingram:

So I've been with Carr Riggs and Ingram for about 14 years. My general background is I provide tax research, planning and tax compliance type services for high net worth individuals, corporations, and pass through entities. I do a lot of work with S corps and partnerships in a variety of different industries. I tell people I'm industry agnostic. I really have clients all over all over the board for retail and restaurant and distribution and your manufacturing professional services. I have a lot of clients who are consultants attorneys and doctors. So I'm really industry agnostic. I do also have an expertise in representing clients in front of the IRS if they are God forbid ever audited or receive tax notices. I've represented many clients in IRS audits and in state audits as well. Many. Many of my clients do work in multiple States. In fact, that a few weeks ago I taught a continuing education. Multi-State taxation and how that all works today, you know, with the electronic economy these days, you know, almost every business in the country has at least some by state ramification. And if they don't, it's few and far between at this point. So, you know I really try and make sure that my clients feel loved. One of my, you know , personal goals is, you know , to make sure that even if I can't get back to a client immediately, at least I let them know that I've gotten their message and , and I'm , and I'm I'll get back to them as soon as I can. I , you know, I do my best to get back to whether it's a client or prospect call within two hours of getting it, you know once in a great while it won't be that won't be that quick, but I always do my best to just at least make sure I clients or prospects feel communicated with. So that's really important to me as well.

Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:

Yeah. Well, and, and I can attest to that your, your response time is definitely first-class for sure. I mean, it's top of the line,

Bob Steinhardt, CPA - Carr, Riggs, and Ingram:

Right ? I do appreciate that time , you know it's great to hear that from, you know, from clients cause it's something I really you know, I kinda , to me that shows that what I'm doing is working and , you know, my business is growing because my clients feel like I'm communicating well and getting them what they need, you know, in a timely fashion. You know, I hate the stress of deadlines as much as my clients do. So, you know, it's my goal to always kind of keep work moving, right? So let me get back to a client. I always try to, and as soon as we can get a return out the door or help a client with a tax planning project or any sort of research or, you know, that they might need, you know, I try to turn that around as quickly as possible because you know these days you know, things change minute to minute, not just, you know, day to day. So we really want to make sure that our clients have all the information they need as quickly as possible.

Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:

Yeah, no, that's, that's great. I appreciate that. And, you know, I, I'm thinking to you as being a CPA and in, in the profession you've chosen and working with a broad cross section of of the industries and business types. And that's a commonality we actually share in common if you kind of industry agnostic work across a very broad cross section of clientele and business owners and small to mid to large sized clients and everything in between. But I guess you know, just out of curiosity, how did you know, or maybe when did you know you wanted to kind of get into this profession? What led you there?

Bob Steinhardt, CPA - Carr, Riggs, and Ingram:

No , it's, it's funny you ask I really grew up in the profession, so my dad who passed away a few months ago actually was a sole practitioner CPA for over 40 years in Northern New Jersey. So I really, you know, since I was, you know, 10 years old, I was, you know, working in the industry you know, there was a stretch while , you know, just before college or I was in college that I thought to myself, you know, I'm just, I'm not sure I'm cut out for now how hard he works, but you know, it, it, as I was getting closer to graduating with an accounting degree, of course I decided that, you know, I wanted to not necessarily go out on my own, but work for a firm and kind of learn the ropes and, you know, carbons and Ingram was that firm . So, you know, it just kind of , it's been that kind of transition where, you know, I, I really love what I do. You know, it's not about the numbers, it's about helping my clients. And I've really been able to do that over the last 14 years. And it's just, it's, it's made it much easier again, cause you know, of course we all, as I say , we all hate deadlines, but you know, it's about making sure that my clients who are also friends right, are well taken care of and you know, that's, that's really the most important thing and it's just always been about client service. So it's really, it's, you know, growing up, I was like, you know, he works so hard. He's constantly on the phone doing something night and day, but he did it cause he loved it, you know, and he did it because, you know, as just like me, a lot of his friends were his clients. So, you know, it was, you know, a love for him and, you know, I really had that same love for the profession. So I know that's kind of unusual to hear from a CPA, but you know, I really love what I do and I feel lucky to be able to do it everyday

Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:

Well. That's great. And you know, I you know, your, your love and affection for what you do, certainly it comes through. Right. You know, I I can tell in working with you and , and how you work with your clients, you know, people pick up on that pretty quickly. They will know if you're being genuine or sincere, or if you , you really care about what you do and that, that makes that that's a big deal. And you know, while we're kind of on that subject, you know, we, we talk here and like to talk through kind of the, this idea of mrs . Makes and multipliers. So you know maybe, maybe you could share with us as you were, you know, now that you're a partner with a growing firm, I mean, I think that's exciting with Carr Riggs and Ingram they're growing. And you've been part of that growth and have seen that come through. So as the firm's been growing and you've been involved with it, you know, it , it's not always you know, it's not, it's not always a pretty picture, you know, that maybe the pub publicists release. So if you wouldn't mind sharing maybe a mess or a mishap or something that came up along the way that that you learned something from that you could share with the with our listeners,

Bob Steinhardt, CPA - Carr, Riggs, and Ingram:

You know you know, what I would say is, as you said, right, like not nothing's ever perfect. You , you know, you, you do the best you can, but you know something I learned just growing up and I think my dad, she taught it to me is, you know, perfection is the enemy of progress, right? So if you're trying to be perfect with everything you never going to get anywhere because you're not making those steps forward. So, you know, I think, you know, I, didn't one kind of example of that is about a year and a half ago, two years ago, I was involved with a new client who was being audited by the IRS. And he was a self employed individual and had some very large expense items for travel meals. And, you know, those are two kind of hot, hot button type issues for the IRS. And we , we really did our best. I had, I had to help of staff prepare me help prepare you know, documentation to bring back to the IRS. And, you know, we got all set for a meeting. I brought the staff along with me and we get to the office and the, the agent goes, you know, these receipts don't mean anything to me. You're not proving to me that these expenses were actually for business. So I'm just going to disallow all of it. And you're going to have to deal with taking it to a appeals . And, you know, after all the work that we've done for the client, you know, I can be a little emotional, I get very upset. I said, you know, we've done all this work year . We feel like we've proven to you that, you know, these are all business expenses and, you know, it's kind of ridiculous that you're just going to sit here and disallow all of it. You know, without even hearing from the taxpayer or for me about what, you know, what this all proves and she, you know, she's civil service , civil servant, you know, so basically she said , you know, she was basically just trying to push this phone through to the next person. So we landed up having to go to appeals, go to her supervisor and it ended up just being a huge mess and it cost the client a lot more money. Cause we obviously had to spend a lot more time on it, you know , you know , sitting in an IRS audit office for eight hours waiting for a , you know, an auditor or, you know , a supervisor of an auditor to go through everything. It just got to be, you know , really big disaster. You know, I wouldn't say it's a miss cause , you know, the client understood that we were doing everything we can, but you know, in the end it's just that it's , in some regards you can do everything you can, but you're still never going to get exactly a month and you just have to kind of roll with the punches. I probably shouldn't have gotten as upset as I did, but it was, you know, a very, you know, difficult situation, especially given all the work that we had done and all the time we had spent with the client and preparing for the audit. So I wouldn't necessarily, it's a miss, but sometimes I might be a little bit over emotional in trying to help my clients.

Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:

Yeah. Well, I , and I think I think anyone who is who's great in their profession it definitely is a victim to getting emotionally tied in to their work and the quality and what they're doing and serving their clients. And, you know, I think in your case, it's a great and you know I guess a good lesson out of that one here for those that are tuning in, you know watch your travel and meals, expenses

Bob Steinhardt, CPA - Carr, Riggs, and Ingram:

Document where you're going, what you're doing and what the reason for your travel was. Listen, I mean , these were some pretty large numbers and I understand why the IRS audited it, but we felt like we had a really good trail and the IRS was just having none of it . Yeah . It was just unfortunately a difficult situation that we had to deal with.

Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:

How about on the other end? You know cause, you know, I know most of our audience here is there they're going to be small to midsize business owners and that this is like their worst nightmare coming true. But

Bob Steinhardt, CPA - Carr, Riggs, and Ingram:

It's something that I rolled out of that. So yeah , that particular taxpayer, he was self employed and then decided to go and become the CFO for a startup. And that startup is now a pretty large company that does business in a whole bunch of States and has some very, very large multinational clients. So because we proved out to him how hard we work and how we communicate, what kind of things we do to make sure our clients are well-served. We were able to bring on this company that he now became CFO of, and they're now one of my largest clients. And you know, they're continuing to grow, listen, there are startups still , so do they have losses? Yes. But they also have some really, you know , large investors they've actually brought in a a series B seed round. Now I think for 'em between 10 and $12 million. So it's a really big company. We're going to be a big company and they have some big plans and works. We were excited to kind of be on the ground floor of that, but it all came out of just working really hard through this audit. Right. And proving to them what we can do and , and , you know, that's, you know, my best referrals always come out of existing clients cause they know me. Right. I have some great referral partners, you know, financial advisors and attorneys and consultants, but you know, my best referrals are almost always from my existing clients because they can, they can tell them about the Wars we've been through, right. Or the things that we've done to help them save money to make sure that they are well served. You know? So I think that would be kind of one of the makes it's, it's really, it's funny that kind of ends up being the same party . So it really just it's it's one, you know, one thing can lead to another so quickly and you know, people move around, so you always want it. You never want to burn a bridge. You want to make sure that, you know keep good relationships with the people you're working with. And even if they move on, maybe they'll think about you, you know, going forward. So yeah . I mean ,

Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:

Well, you know, Bob, that's a , that's a really great point. I think that you make here, especially in your profession. Because it , it basically, if you're in business or any kind of organization, it doesn't really matter. Taxes have to get paid or, and , or filed and go through that whole process. And, and so, you know, you meet someone who's an employee at company a and then they decide to start their own business at company B. And they say, Oh, you know, I've got, you know, quote my guy or my gal. And Bob is their guy in this case and brings them in. I mean, that, that means a lot.

Bob Steinhardt, CPA - Carr, Riggs, and Ingram:

Right. You know, inevitably things are going to happen, right. Partners are going to get in disagreements poor. They're going to decide that they want to split off a certain part of a business or, you know, so sometimes it's going to happen where you're going to land up, you're going to you'll end up getting one of the parties out of a situation like that. Right. You may not get both because they don't feel like they're being well served by having the same, you know , CPA as, you know, their former employer or, you know, their former partner. But it's turned out in a lot of cases that, because they liked the way I've worked or the way that our firm has done has done their work, that we land up, getting both ends of it. And, you know, that's how you grow a business. Organically is just kind of keeping that keeping those relationships strong and making sure that everybody feels that we're , we're doing a good job and listen, if they feel like we can't be independent, I understand that. And that's on them. That's no problem. We understand that. But you know, it's our responsibility also to, you know , make sure confidentiality rules are applied, you know you know, we don't have necessarily the same statutes that attorneys have, but we really, you know, we have a code of contact conduct that our CPAs we follow and, you know, one of them is confidentiality. So, you know, we always kind of try and make sure that that's followed as well.

Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:

No, that that's great. And a great, great that , that, that's absolutely right. And, you know, as you think about your own, whether it's your own personal success or as you've grown with the company and through the company, or just a car Riggs and Ingram in general or maybe something you picked up from some of your clients along the way, I always like to ask you, you know, about these multipliers, you know, what, what multipliers large, big or small have you, or seen employed that, that have been effective in helping someone grow

Bob Steinhardt, CPA - Carr, Riggs, and Ingram:

Well? So, you know , obviously as I talked about a lot communication, super important to me one of the things also that, you know, you know, me in my practice, I feel like has helped us grow is, or at least helped my practice grow is, you know, I mean a couple of different referral networks and I've really gotten some great relationships out of those. So I try and nurture those relationships, you know, have at least a phone call or a few phone calls with those parties. You know, those people, you know, every few weeks or, you know, no more than a month apart, right. Because I want to make sure that,

Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:

You know, I want them to know what's going on in my industry and I always kind of want to find out what's going on with them.

Bob Steinhardt, CPA - Carr, Riggs, and Ingram:

So if you, if you have a really kind of good understanding, good business knowledge of what's going on out there, you know, that's why I think I've been able to kind of be industry agnostic is, you know, I know enough about the economy and what's going on in the world economically that I think, you know, clients or prospects feel like I understand what they're talking about, my get it. Right. So being well-read is super important. You know, before I leave my house in the morning, you know, I've, I've kept up with whatever happened over overnight , you know, whether it's the stock market or, you know, jobs report or, you know , what's going on with unemployment or what's going on with tax law changes, or, you know, what's come out, come out over the last 24 hours. You know, I feel like it's really important to be well-read especially, you know, with all the tax law changes and, you know, things, PPP loans, all this other type of stuff, CARE's act, all that stuff has been a huge thing in 2020. But, you know, there were other things in 2017 and 18 and 19. So you have to understand what's going on out there because you have to constantly be contemplating what changes in strategy you need to be making for your clients, because, you know, they're gonna , they're going to need to know that, you know, what you're talking about. Right. And one of the things I'll say is, you know, if a client has a question for me and I don't necessarily know the answer 100% I'll tell them right off the bat , listen , I don't know exactly, but we'll find out and we'll get back to you as soon as we can, because, you know, we understand that you need to know as soon as possible. So, you know, as well read as I try and be, there some things that I just, you know, I don't know the minutia of law, there might be some iteration that I just, I don't necessarily, I haven't had to deal with in the past, but,

Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:

And I would say to Bob, just for you and , and your firm and your company, that one of the values you bring is that if you don't know, given your breadth of background and experience there , chances are there someone down the hall or depending on the new you know, coronavirus, post , you know, Corona virus rules that you're compliant within the office. But someone that you can yeah , yeah . Someone that you can reach out to in house, that's going to be an expert in that.

Bob Steinhardt, CPA - Carr, Riggs, and Ingram:

That is exactly right. I mean you know, in the office next to me, I might have the foremost trust expert in the Southeast. He literally knows everything about the taxation of trusts and estates no more so than I've ever seen. He's he was with CRI for awhile moved to Chicago for some family stuff. And then has since come back to Atlanta and back with CRI. And then, you know, we have a ton of experts here on real estate taxation and franchises and international tax. We just have such a breadth of services and knowledge. We have such a knowledge base in his office, you know, it really as you're saying, Tom , you know, if I don't know the answer, I can walk down the hall and get an answer pretty quickly. And at least get that discussion going. And, you know, my partner is and our staff are always happy to help me, you know, get, you know, get the right answer as quickly as we can.

Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:

And, you know, the final, the final question we always like to ask before we close out with everyone is what does success mean to you?

Bob Steinhardt, CPA - Carr, Riggs, and Ingram:

Wow. That's a , that's an interesting question. So obviously, you know, success means I have three little girls, so success means being able to make sure that they are not wanting for anything and that they, you know, that if obviously I'm trying, not trying to spoil, spoil the heck out of them, but I want to make sure that they, you know, they really they don't have to worry. Right. you know, I love what I do, but what I do is for all of them, right. It's for my kids and my wife and my family. I want to make sure that so success is growing my practice to a point where I have good people working below me and with me that, you know, I can enjoy my family, right. I want to work to live, not live to work. Right. I mean , again, I love what I do and I work a lot, but I still want to make sure that I'm taking the time to be there for my family. And so to me, success is just, you know, feeling comfortable enough with, you know, my situation that I can enjoy my family. I think that would probably be a , what I would regard as success, you know, listen, would it be great to have millions of dollars in the bank shore, but you know, to me, it's not necessarily all about that. It's funny I say that cause I have a lot of high net worth clients who have lots of money in the bank. But you can see, you know, just because they have a lot of money in the bank, doesn't mean they're happy. Happiness is, you know , being able to enjoy you know, the little things in life. And you know, that being with my family is, you know , one of them, even if it just means taking a walk when I get home from the office with all of them right. Getting out in the neighborhood, being with friends. But to me, success and work are probably the kind of on two different paths, right? They're not, it's not necessarily, you know, one kind of leads to the other, but it's really the kind of separate in that regard.

Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:

Well, that's great. I love that. And you know, it's a , it's, it's a common, you know , it's interesting. We , we like asking that because I , I, I, I say this often, but I think all too often, there's the , when people hear the word success, it immediately goes to you know, money or possessions or wealth or something like that. And you know, as we're doing this series, the, these these interviews and talking with successful people that have prominent positions are created big companies, or like you, that are experts in their field and working at top firms in advising you know, really important clients. And what we keep finding is a similar theme to what you're sharing. And so, you know I , I think that's I think that's great and I really appreciate you being here today. And is there anything you'd like to, as we close out here, any, anything you'd like any final words you'd like to share with the audience?

Bob Steinhardt, CPA - Carr, Riggs, and Ingram:

Well, again, I just wanted to thank you so much for having me they're always a pleasure to talk to you and, you know, especially in this COVID error to be able to speak with clients and friends and be able to, you know, help them through this difficult period economically that this country's having, you know, it's my pleasure to do that. I enjoy it. You know, it's, it's what gets me going each day is, you know, being able to take care of the people that I care about. So you know, again, what I do is, you know, I love what I do. It's not everything, but it's I'm happy to, you know , help you or any of your , your clients or contacts, you know, and you know, my I'm just an email away or a phone call. And you'll probably hear back from me within two hours. So

Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:

Well, I think that's, I think that's a great, a great way to end the segment here. So anyone who's in the market looking for a new CPA here put Bob to the test, there's the challenge, put Bob to the test if you're tuning in and send them an email or a phone call and see, see how the response is there . So well, Bob, I really appreciate you being here. Thank you for your time and sharing your, your experience, your wisdom, and the nuggets of information you shared.

Bob Steinhardt, CPA - Carr, Riggs, and Ingram:

Thank you again, Tom. I really appreciate it.

Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team:

And that's our interview here with Bob Steinhardt , Bob, thanks again for being a part of the podcast here today, and to conclude and go over a few items, let's talk through some of these takeaways. I think there were some really great pieces of information for us to learn from one of the first things he said is that he wants to make sure he gives his clients love. And he does. He feels like he's giving that with a two hour response time. And so by the way that two hour challenge is in place. So if you are looking for a new CPA or accounting firm or looking for someone to help you out with things, I would put Bob to the test, his email is in the show notes for us. It is bsteinhardt @cricpa.com and we'll make sure we have that spelled correctly for you in the show notes. Again, Bob also pointed out that he wants to make sure that his clients are well taken care of. And I think that, that he's trying to show that through with that two hour response time, and look as a client of Bob, our firm is I can validate and confirm that it is very rare. He does not respond within a couple of hours. So it's really, really great. Bob also said that perfection is the enemy of progress. I think that's a great lesson at something. A lot of you have probably heard along the way, but for me, at least it never gets old to here because it's, it's always this battle of when is a good, good enough kind of an idea that if you just keep making that progress you know, that that quest for perfection will continue. Bob also mentioned a really big hot button here for the IRS, which is large expenses for travel and meals and entertainment. So, eh, you know , I think just as a takeaway for any small midsize or any business, make sure that you are properly tracking and documenting what those meals are for what the travel is for what that entertainment is for, so that it can be properly accounted for in your for your tax filings. Bob also said he never ever burns a bridge. And he taught us something very well with his client that did not seem to have a happy ending there with the one client with the end result. However, because of the experience Bob provided to them and the customer service that Bob was able to provide that customer actually came back with a new company. So that that's something that Bob could have just walked away from or given up on, but he did great work and he never assumed. And now this company, this person has come back as one of his, his top clients. I think that's a really, really great thing to keep in mind. And the other takeaway here that he mentioned was to stay connected and joining referral networks. It helps keep you up to speed on what's happening, not only in your industry, but in other industries. And it really forces you to keep up in your industry as well, because you have to know the trends when you're talking to these people. And he mentioned too, that he, he works to live. He doesn't live to work. So I think those are some great takeaways from Bob's interview today. Really, really great, great information. And now I'd like to get into today's win, win. So for today's win-win that we take out from Bob's interview is the message that he said when he said he wants to make sure his clients are well taken care of. And I think that's a win, win all too often. We've all as consumers at some point, experienced mediocre at best or below average customer service of some kind. And it just, it doesn't work at you, you as the business or the business in that situation that selling the product or service may get one customer for that split moment in time. But that poor service or poor customer experience is probably not going to bring that person back again. And so I think when, when we're, when you're looking at it, the way that Bob described it, when you go in to making sure your client is well taken care of, it's a win for the client, they have a better customer experience. It increases their level of happiness with you. It means that you're more likely to win for you because now you are more likely to keep that customer and keep that client longterm . And now the, that clients or customers average lifetime spend with you just went up. And so that's a great win-win and they're getting better service, better support. Most likely you'll be getting better referrals. Those referrals are happy. It becomes this self fulfilling prophecy kind of an idea. So that's today win, win. So, thanks again for tuning in. Please share this with anyone you think who may enjoy our podcast, and we'll see you next week on the next multiply your success podcast. [inaudible] .