7. How Baseball Cards Led to the NBA and a Harvard MBA—David Leopold, President, Criterium Engineers

Did you ever collect baseball or trading cards?  Did it ever turn into anything serious for you?  Today's guest, David Leopold, started his first business at the age of 13 trading baseball cards which helped him land his first corporate job with the NBA. The NBA eventually led him to a career in the cable and communications industry which led him to the insurance industry, which eventually led him to Criterium Engineers.

To learn more about Criterium Engineers, please visit: https://criterium-engineers.com/

If you are interested in the Criterium Engineers franchise, please visit: https://theengineeringfranchise.com/

If you are looking for a franchise coach or you are ready to talk about franchising your business you can schedule your free, no obligation, franchise consultation by visiting: https://bigskyfranchiseteam.com/.

Transcript

Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team: 0:03

You've worked hard to build your business. And now it's time to grow. Welcome to the multiply your success podcast. I'm your host, Tom DuFore CEO of big sky franchise team and a serial entrepreneur. Join me each week. As I interview leading entrepreneurs, executives, and experts who share their misses makes and multipliers. If you are a growth minded entrepreneur investor or franchise company, then this podcast is for you. If there's one thing I've learned in business and in life it's that you can always learn something new to make things better. Our purpose for this podcast is for you to glean some wisdom and practical ideas to implement on your expansion journey. We look forward to being your guide to multiply your success. Thanks for tuning in to the next great edition of the multiply, your success podcast. I'm your host, Tom do four, and today's episode is a lot of fun today. There it's packed full of information. So it's a little bit longer than some of our other episodes, but you are going to want to tune in all the way from start to finish. And we're going to start it off today with a little bit of fun. And I'm wondering if you ever collected any kind of trading cards when you were a kid, maybe as an adult still, uh, any baseball cards, football cards, hockey cards, uh, Pokemon cards, uh, anything like that that you may have collected or, or kept. And what did it, was there ever a point in time when your mom or dad said, Hey, get rid of these things where these cards are all over the house. Uh, you got to get rid of these things and go do something with it. So you bundled them up and tried to do something. And any of you guys ever do that? Well, our guest today, David Leopold was told to do the exact same thing, and he was able to turn that experience into a job with the national basketball association, with the NBA, which later turned to a career in the cable and telecommunications industry, into the insurance industry, into the engineering and franchising business and going through all of this pretty impressive story. And Oh, by the way, has, has a, a, an undergrad undergrad degree from the university of Pennsylvania and an MBA from Harvard university. So today's guest is fantastic. His name is David Leopold. He is the president of Criterium Engineers, which is an engineering firm and a franchise. And you are not going to want to miss this one. So without further ado here is my interview with David Leopold.

David Leopold - Criterium Engineers: 2:52

Uh, so I grew up in central Pennsylvania about a hundred miles East of Pittsburgh. So for all your listeners out there, I'm a, I'm a fan of the Pittsburgh Steelers and, uh, and the Pittsburgh pirates and, and maybe all things Western PA, but, uh, in terms of my professional career, uh, I, uh, I got started, I went to college, uh, and, uh, in undergraduate I joined or enrolled in undergraduate business program and probably within, I don't know, maybe sometime within my first year I realized I was paying a whole lot of money to take classes that I wasn't particularly interested in. So I did something that was, I think, a little bit unconventional. Most people try to get into this undergraduate business school and, uh, or undergraduate business program. And I ended up switching out and becoming liberal arts major because I liked taking history classes. And, uh, and so I finished up with, uh, with a degree in history. I liked it so much. I stayed on and did some graduate work in history. And, uh, I think one of the themes that we'll probably talk a little bit about today is you always get to decision points in your career. And as I was wrapping up my graduate program in history, I had a decision point to it. I want to stay on and get my PhD in history and likely become a history professor, or did I want to go and try something else out? And even during my undergraduate career, I realized if I ever wanted to go back to business school, I could go out, go back and get an MBA, but I wasn't gonna take the time that I had committed to my undergraduate work to take classes that I didn't like. So coming out of my graduate program, I decided I wasn't quite ready to be a history professor and, and be an academics. And so I started applying for jobs and I was lucky enough to land my first job, uh, with the national basketball association. And you would think so how did, how did somebody like me end up at a place like that? And I'd say, uh, the simplest answer is I put my resume in a Dropbox and ended up with a job, but obviously things aren't always quite that simple. I do, I guess, have a little bit of an entrepreneurial streak. Uh, particularly when I was in high school, I got very into, uh, trading cards like baseball, football, basketball, and hockey cards. And, uh, one day when I was probably about 13 years old, my mom said that my baseball cards were all over the closet. I had to clean them up and, uh, had to find a, uh, a better way to do this. And so I took that to heart packaged all of them up, took them to a local baseball card store and sold them, got some money back and said, okay, I'm going to start over. I'm going to get a fresh start. And that turned into, um, a little bit of a business when I was in high school. And, uh, the business was generally successful. I had an opportunity to buy cards directly from manufacturers and go to go to card shows and sell the ones that I didn't want. And that would give me the money to buy the cards that, that I, I wanted to buy. And it was all really targeted to building a better baseball card collection from, from the very beginning. But it took off a little bit more than I thought it, it probably would and ended up having enough money to buy my first car. And when I look, look back on life that maybe, maybe that's maybe one of my makes is getting into a market at a, at the right time. That's great. Yeah. In the late eighties and early nineties trading cards were definitely a big business. And so I think with that background, that was enough to get some people looking at resumes at the NBA to say, Hey, maybe we, we might talk to this kid. So I went in and, uh, I, they came to my camp, my college, and it was sort of an on campus recruiting type of thing. And I had my interview and that was nice. And then weeks and weeks and weeks went by and I didn't hear anything. So I kept pursuing other job opportunities. And in fact, I hadn't heard from the NBA. I had called them a couple of times and never heard back and figured, Oh, well, you know, I'm probably not going, going to work there. And another company that I liked quite a bit, uh, ended up giving me a job offer. And I thought it sounded pretty nice. So I accepted the job offer. And within two weeks of, of accepting the job offer, I got a call from the NBA and they said, we'd like to have you come to New York for a second round of interviews. And I thought, you know, I got nothing to lose here. I I'd always regret not, not going and seeing what the NBA offices looked like. So I went, had my interviews figured I'd never hear from again, two weeks later, they call me back and gave me the job. And I had already signed on with another company. And at that point, you know, I made the decision that I would have always regretted not taking that job with the NBA. And so I ended up calling back the original company that gave me the job offer and told them the story. And I was extremely apologetic and they, they understood, I mean, it was months before I was supposed to start the job. And, uh, and they were, they were really nice. And in fact, I actually ran across the company again much later in my career. And when I say much later, probably 15, 20 years later in my career, I ran across that same company. And, uh, they were, uh, a marketing research and consulting firm. And it ended up, I ended up using them as a research entity in, in a later, uh, in a later role in life. But so that's how I ended up at the NBA and, uh, worked there for a number of years. And at a certain point realized I could go one of two ways in my career. I could try something different within the NBA or go out and find a different job, or I could go and

Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team: 8:44

Sorry to interrupt, but just real quick, I I'm sure people are tuning in that are hearing you talk about working for the NBA. You're just kind of glazing over that, but that's a big deal. That's really cool. Exciting. It's the NBA. So are you able to talk about what you did? There are certain things you were involved with that that sounds really interesting.

David Leopold - Criterium Engineers: 9:03

Yeah. So I, my first job at the NBA was, was, um, was as part of an incredibly glorified title of an entry level trainee. That was my first job title at the end. And even though the title of the job doesn't sound particularly exciting, it, it was a great program because I had an opportunity in my first year at the NBA to do three rotations across different aspects of the business. So I spent about four months in the consumer products group, about four months in NBA entertainment and four months in the marketing partnerships, corporate sponsorships division. And so I actually got a chance to navigate the organization really well, gain an understanding of all the different options out there. And I was fortunate enough at the end of the, my year to be extended a, uh, a full time offer in the consumer products division. So I ended up working in the consumer products division and spent most of my time focused on, uh, business operations and business development. So, uh, when you think about MBAs consumer products, it's apparel, hats, t-shirts anything and everything with NBA logo on it, but also things like trading cards and basketballs and notebooks, and, you know, crazy, you know, little chotsky type stuff, anything with an NBA logo on it. And for the most, uh, for most of my time, uh, on that team for pilot last year and a half or two years, I focused on, uh, what the NBA was exploring is what they would call their self sourcing initiative. So historically the MBA worked on a licensing model, which is they would work with Nike or Reebok or Spalding or a trading card company. And those companies would make the goods, they would pay the NBA, a license fee or a royalty for using the logo, and then they would go out and sell it. And so, uh, the NBA started thinking, well, what if we made some of our own stuff? And I got involved with, uh, something where the NBA was bringing in t-shirts and sourcing hats and other things, and then either silk screening them or embroidering them with an NBA logo and then selling those items through what they would call NBA controlled distribution. So the NBA store on fifth Avenue was a pretty recent endeavor, and that had just opened while I was a part of the NBA and they would sell it in arena. So they would sell it at, at basketball games and they would sell it online at, you know, some burgeoning new website called mba.com, which, you know, if you dial back to the late nineties, that that stuff was all pretty new. Yeah, that's right. And so that was, that was what my first job was like at the MBA is, is, uh, in fact, you know, one of the, one of the things that, that people always ask is, well, what was it like, did you see players? And yeah, actually you did get to see some players floating around, but in the end it operated just like any other company. Uh, but the big difference was that underlying theme was basketball. So showing up at a work trip, which might've been the NBA all star game, or the NBA finals, there was a whole different, uh, set of reasons to kind of get excited about work, travel, and, uh,

Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team: 12:41

Right. Well, let's see here going to a franchise trade show or to the NBA all star game. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. That sounds those little extra sound, pretty fun and interesting. That's really, really great. I mean, that's a cool story. That's it sounds like an amazing experience and who knew trading baseball cards and buying and selling and doing all of that could lead to this kind of an opportunity. I'm sure that attracted them on your background and resume and fitting in perfectly with what they were doing.

David Leopold - Criterium Engineers: 13:15

Yeah. I think I, I had a, I probably looked good enough on paper that I was worth talking to.

Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team: 13:23

So then what happened? So now you you've got this great resume builder with the MBA and then what happens?

David Leopold - Criterium Engineers: 13:29

Yeah. So after wrapping up, uh, with the MBA, so I had been there almost four years and I started thinking about what's next. And, you know, I got to the point where I realized that were there were about six or seven jobs in the MBA that I thought were really, really cool and pretty much every one of them required some kind of advanced degree either go to law school. Know when I was there, David stern was the commissioner. He has a legal background, the current commissioner, Adam silver, who was running NBA entertainment at the time. He had a, a background in, in the legal field. And so I started thinking, do I want to go to law school? Maybe I go to business school. And ultimately I decided to, uh, to leave the MBA and go to business school and that sort of hearkens back to what I was saying when I was in college is you always have a chance to go back and do something. You just have to take the initiative to make it happen. And so I was lucky enough to, um, to apply to business school and get in. And so I ended up going to business school and, uh, coming out of business school. Uh, I ended up thinking about going back to the NBA, but in the end, decided to do something a little bit different. Uh, in fact, my, uh, summer, so business school, I was in a two year program and the summer between my first and my second year, I worked for a company called cable vision and cable vision, which some people may not think of as a household name. It, um, it was a cable company that had about 3 million cable customers in the New York metropolitan area, but it also owned a number of television networks. And it also happened to own the Knicks, the Rangers, New York Knicks, New York Rangers and radio city musical. Wow. So it was kind of this interesting conglomerate. And I had, uh, you know, probably because of my experience at the NBA, I looked like somebody that had a fair amount of, uh, interest and experience in some of their core aspects of the business. And interestingly, when I got there, I really grew, uh, more interested in the cable side of the business. So even though they looked at me as somebody from an entertainment and sports background, you know, my interests migrated more toward the cable business. And so when I ended up getting out of, out of business school, I ended up working for a, for a cable company, time Warner cable, and similar to my experience at the NBA, I was lucky enough to find an opportunity at time Warner cable. That was a training program where they put you in a cable division and, uh, and they give you an opportunity to try a couple of different things over a period of a few years and hopefully something sticks and you move on from there. And so I spent, uh, uh, spent my first foray in the cable business, in the, uh, Albany New York area, working in the Albany market. And after being there for about, uh, I guess it was two and a half or three years, I had an opportunity to move to Maine for another, uh, for really a promotion in time Warner cable. And so I moved to, uh, move to Maine and spent a couple more years with time Warner cable and gradually had increasing responsibility. Uh, so I had moved to Maine and was focused mostly on the, um, new England market. That was right on the cusp of going from a really small cable division of about 120,000 customers to a much bigger division cause they were acquiring another system and they went from about 120 to 370,000 customers overnight. So wow. That division was tripling in size. And I had the opportunity to take on a marketing and sales role, uh, leading marketing and sales for that division. And over time that turned into a regional opportunity where I had marketing and sales, not just for that market in new England, but all of upstate New York, which included markets like Buffalo and Rochester and Syracuse and Albany. And then, uh, what they called the national division, which included a smattering of cable divisions from all over the country in Kansas city, Lincoln, Nebraska, Yuma, Arizona, El central, California, Dothan, Alabama, Richland, Kentucky, like little places that was the land of misfit toys. You know, they didn't really fit in any one system. So they just put them all together in one, one system. And, and, uh, so I spent a number of years in the cable business and, uh, after, uh, spending about seven years at time Warner cable, as companies often do, they start to reorganize. And I was leading marketing and sales for one of five regions in the company. And they were looking to take these five regions and merge them into two super regions. And so they were going to cut the company between the East and the West. And I had an opportunity to take on the head marketing role, like the chief marketing officer role for the West. And that was, uh, probably one of the best professional opportunities I might've ever been offered in my, in my career, but it also meant moving from Maine to Los Angeles and wow. And so in thinking about that opportunity, uh, I had three kids who were aged four and under and thinking of, of relocating my family to Southern California, where the cost of living was really high. And my region would have included, uh, California, Texas, and the Midwest. So if you form a triangle from that, I would have been on a lot of long haul flights, three, four days a week, uh, jumping from market to market. And so in the end, um, I started thinking, well, what if I didn't move to LA? And time Warner cable said, well, you can either move to LA and take the number one job, or you can move to Charlotte and take the number two job, but you can't stay in Maine. And so my wife and I were really struggling with the decision and, uh, I was kind of resigned to, Hey, I think we're going to move to LA. And when I was having a brunch at a friend's house one day, she said, Hey, how are things going? Um, you know, our families were friends and our kids are running around the house. It's total chaos at that point. And she said, how are things going at work? And I said, well, you know, I'm traveling a little bit more than I prefer, but, uh, you know, otherwise things are going pretty well. And she said, well, if you ever wanted me to introduce you to anybody at, uh, where I work, I'd be happy to do that. And so she happened to work at a company called Unum group, which has a large insurance and financial services company that has big operations in the Portland Maine area. And I didn't tell her why, but I said, you know, I think might enjoy talking to somebody there. And this is when I was trying to figure out what I was going to do with time Warner cable. And she introduced me to one of the people that she worked for. And he and I had breakfast at a diner one morning and I told them, here's what I do. And he said, Hey, that's really interesting. Here's what we do. Uh, I don't think I have anything for you right now, but if anything comes up, I'll, um, I'll let you know. And as luck would have it, something happened to come up in the next couple of weeks. Wow, give me a call. I threw my hat in. It looked and smelled like something I could possibly do. And instead of moving to California, I stayed in Maine and ended up working for Unum group for about seven years. And my last role with them, uh, was the chief marketing officer for the company. And that included their different lines of business, which was a, uh, two large businesses here based in the U S and then the international business, uh, as well, like all things in one's career. You know, you get to a point, we got to figure out what you want to do next. And I got to a point, uh, after seven years at Unum, where I realized what I wanted to do next was not at Unum. And I think that's what resonates quite a bit in the franchising world is that at a certain point, you get to a place in your career where you want a little bit more control over your own destiny. And you want to get back to kind of the day to day running your own show. And after spending 15 years in large fortune two 50 size companies between time Warner cable, which is now charter and, and Unum, I was ready to go back to maybe those entrepreneurial roots of swapping baseball cards with, uh, with people at trade shows in the late eighties and early nineties. And so I, uh, I also made a decision to leave you and them and started talking to a lot of different people. And one of the nice things about, about where I live and which is probably true in a lot of places is anybody will talk to you. Uh, and so I did a lot of networking for, uh, about six months and built a, uh, a funnel of possible options around businesses that, uh, that interested me and what I'd really made the decision is I wanted to do two things. I wanted to be in a place that operated smaller. Didn't have to be smaller, but it needed to operate smaller. I was tired of the bureaucratic layers that exist in large organizations. And there's great things about large organizations, but layers and decision making. Sometimes isn't one of them and I want to get back to running a profit and loss statement and being in charge of, of the day to day, um, business. And so from there, I really decided that I wanted to own and operate my own company. And so in looking at the, at different companies in the area to purchase, I also looked down the franchising route and through a lot of conversations, I ended up meeting with a franchise attorney who's based here in Portland, Maine, and talked to him a little bit, and we had a great conversation. And ironically, or maybe not, I had breakfast with him at the same diner that I had breakfast with the guy who I ended up working for it Unum for a number of years. So how's that for a strange, questionable, crazy coincidence. And, uh, and so after, after having breakfast with him, I got a call out of the blue from him, maybe six weeks later. And he said, I might have something for you. It's not really a franchise. It's more the franchisor. Would you have an interest in meeting them? And so I had a chance to meet with the person that was operating criterium engineers at the time and after about a year or so of conversations and exploring that opportunity. In addition to several other opportunities I honed in on realizing the criteria and engineers was the right next step for me. And we were, uh, we were able to work out an arrangement where I had an opportunity to acquire the company. And in June of 2018, I ended up joining criteria engineers. And here I am today as a, as just one of a number of great people working in a great company.

Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team: 25:10

Wow, wow. What an amazing story that that's really incredible. And it's a really wild to hear all of the, uh, at these different transition points. Just, just the different things that happened along the way that no one in probably you are the most surprised of how some of these things, just things that just happen, that you would have never forced teen or been able to, uh, fortune tell, you know, um, that's really incredible. Well, um, as you've shared some of these details here and maybe for the audience, um, you know, I'd like if you wouldn't mind sharing a little bit about criteria, uh, cause it it's a business model that, uh, has a, a great presence and share a little bit about that, that business model there. So criteria

David Leopold - Criterium Engineers: 26:05

Nears is a consulting engineering company, and we specialize in buildings. We get involved in buildings, in the preconstruction and new construction phase of things. And we also get involved in existing buildings as an organization. It was started in 1957 as a home inspection business where the home inspections were performed by a licensed professional engineer in New York city. And so fast forward to today, um, 60 years, the business had really two dynamics that kept, uh, kept feeding the company over time. One dynamic was that to buildings and engineers and engineering. And the other was this loose franchising model that actually started in the early 1960s where the individual who started the company started teaching other people how to perform home inspections. And it turned into this loose franchising model that became a much more formal franchising organization by the late 1980s. And so those two dynamics of being an engineering firm and a franchisor of services, uh, wound up, uh, creating what we have today, which is today we have around 35 offices that are affiliated with us and we call our franchisees affiliates. And so about 35 independently owned and operated franchise EAs or affiliates around the U S and Canada. And we perform a wide variety of services in the building space, whether it's pre-construction and new construction services or inspection and due diligence related services and the residential or commercial market, or, um, helping people better understand the buildings in which they live and work in the homeowner for homeowner associations or again, in the commercial or residential space. And so that's, uh, that's what criteria engineers is up to. And, and we're, it's a really remarkable organization because it marries both the technical side of, of buildings, but taking that and presenting it in clear language and communication in which a building owner that may not be an engineer. And by the way, you've heard my background. I'm not an engineer, uh, where a non-engineer can really understand what they need to do, uh, as it relates to their building.

Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team: 28:28

Wow, well, that's incredible. And I think for our listeners that are tuning in something for, for them to take into consideration is if you are in a PR, cause this is really a professional service, what you're doing here. And people often think when, when they hear the word franchise, they immediately think of fast food or retail or some, or hotels and motels and so on. And the story of criteria and what you're doing from my perspective is one of the most exciting things from a franchise front, because it's one of these areas where professional services really is full of franchise companies. And you just may not know it because it doesn't, they may be are called affiliates or alliances or partners or whatever it might be, uh, to the public. Uh, but underneath of it all, there's a, there's a franchise system that's established and with local ownership. So you have the national presence and local ownership. And, uh, I am sure with, with, uh, national accounts or regional accounts that you're able to provide great service by having those local owners, but a common brand and process how you do that.

David Leopold - Criterium Engineers: 29:42

That's right. And what's great about our organization is that whether you are a, an engineer or just a business person, uh, like, like me, it's a great opportunity to, um, take ownership and own and run a business. And as with any franchise organization, there's a lot of benefits to joining a franchise based business. You know, in particular, you get a business in a box, something that's tried and tested and handed over to you. So the initial concepts of starting your own thing are far less daunting because they've, they've been, they've been created already. Uh, and the other thing about at least our franchise based organization, and I'm quite sure it's true for, for a number of others is that we are here to support our affiliates from the day they purchase their franchise to the day that they sell their franchise and all days in between. And so that support network means that not only are you starting your own business, but you are joining an, a support network that is there for you at every twist and turn in your business career. And one of the, one of the things that we often use as a guiding principle for us as an organization, particularly at the affiliate level is they're independent, but not alone. And that independence gives them all the opportunity to pursue their own business career. And at the same time, they have a network of support to draw from whether it's the corporate entity or the affiliate network that exists all over the country.

Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team: 31:21

Wow. Well, it's, it's really, it's an incredible organization. And for anyone involved in any kind of, uh, property management, building ownership, you know, just a little plug, you know, I would consider reaching out to criteria for any of your needs, new construction, uh, existing properties, whatever might be needed, uh, uh, they're a resource to help you out there. Um, well, uh, David, to jump back into kind of our little formula for the show here, we'd like to talk about the idea of these misses makes and multipliers throughout your career or in business. So let's start with mrs. D can you think of anything that maybe as you went along this journey, uh, that, that maybe there was a miss here or there that you learned from that you could share with us?

David Leopold - Criterium Engineers: 32:10

Yeah. I think if you, if you don't have any misses in career in your career, you probably haven't tried enough. So I I'm sure I'm not alone in having plenty of misses, uh, throughout my career, maybe one to stay on a, on a theme that happened early in my career. That's that was a great lesson for me. And one that, that I I've really carried through in, in all aspects of, of my career is very early on in my career at the NBA. I was responsible for getting one of those new business units off the ground. And this was, as I said before, the MBAs self sourcing initiative, and we had been partnering with an embroidery and silk screening facility in central New Jersey. And they were doing a lot of the product creation and product development for us and the business wasn't performing particularly well. You know, there were some problems with margins and, uh, productivity. And so here I am a 20 early twenties. You know, my, my supervisor sends me out and says, Gail, go learn about the business and find out what's going on. And the person that was responsible for that business had been with the NBA for decades and was out there sorta every day and trying to make this thing thing go. And so I went out and tried to learn, and, you know, here I am this young, bright eyed person trying to observe and writing things down as I go and asking questions. And there's one day, you know, I'm out on the, on the factory floor. And I head back into the main office area and I see the person who was responsible for running the business at the copy machine, photocopying my notes in my notebook. And he was just copying page after page. And it dawned on me that back to your question about misses is the big miss is I didn't make any effort to gain any kind of buy in or partnership in what I was trying to do. I basically showed up and said, I'm here to learn more about the business. And I was told to come out here and spend time and I'm here to help. And, but I never took the time to really forge a stronger relationship. And so the person was understandably suspicious. A didn't really know why I was there and they didn't really, they felt threatened by, by my being there. And so that, that, that was a, you know, a miss that, that, you know, eventually sort of turns into a make, I guess, in your career, because you realize that, um, while you may have the best of intentions, if you're not clear about what those intentions are, and you don't communicate with others and you don't gain the buy-in, you're not going to have any credibility. And I had not made enough of an effort to earn an, earn the right kind of credibility to make it a productive working relationship. And it ended up being a tipping point for us because when I had an opportunity to, to put my cards on the table, he realized there was nothing nefarious in the notes that I had taken or anything like that. It wasn't some kind of, uh, you know, investigative, uh, effort to owls to this, this, this poor individual. But rather it was really just a chance to try and figure out how we could best help them. And in the end, we were able to make tremendous progress together, but it certainly wasn't gonna happen alone. And, um, and that, that, you know, that's, I guess maybe how you, how you turn a miss into a make, but it was certainly a miss. And if you don't gain the right kind of buy in for any kind of initiative, you're more likely to fall, fall on your face than, than me.

Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team: 36:09

Yeah. Yeah. That's a great point. Keeping that communication open and sharing that information. I think that's a really, really great point. And look, I think anyone listening in, and I think we've all had have a similar story we can reference and refer to that, that we've all had happened very similarly. And so we'll flipping that around. You've shared with us some amazing stories about your background and career. It sounds like a whole bunch of makes in there. Uh, is there one you'd like to highlight or talk about that was, uh, was, uh, uh, make that really was maybe a catalyst for you?

David Leopold - Criterium Engineers: 36:43

Yeah, I, I would almost categorize, uh, make, uh, around some themes that we talked about. And one of those themes is that you're always, you're always balancing personal and professional obligations and inevitably that those trade offs are going to exist for everybody. And so you need to get comfortable with the trade offs that you are no doubt going to have to make. And so I think one of the makes that, that I would point to in my career is choosing the personal over the professional. You know, you're gonna know no one's going to be writing a, you know, lying on their death bed, looking back on their life saying, you know, I wish I would have worked more, but they will have regrets in their personal life. And when my wife and I were evaluating what was likely the best job opportunity I may ever have been offered in my life, I probably will never be offered a bigger job to be responsible from a marketing and sales perspective for, uh, a business that was, you know,$10 billion,$15 billion, um, you know, huge scale and lots of customers and lots of geography, but from a personal perspective that that journey just wasn't in the cards. And some people may look at that as a miss. I look at that as passing on that job opportunity and finding something that I could do at, at Unum as a great make for me, uh, because what it did is it grounded me in what were the best decisions for me to make in my career. And that goes back to just being comfortable with the trade offs that you're going to have to make, because once you get comfortable with that, you make the best of the situation that you've chosen, and you're going to work hard to do that. So that's, that's certainly one make I'd put out there,

Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team: 38:54

Uh, that I, I really liked that. And I was actually going to ask if there, I can imagine for a lot of people who have been in a similar situation where they've made the decision to maybe stay put or not move or not relocate or whatever, not take that opportunity, whatever that opportunity might've been and your mindset and attitude around that was once that decision was made, from what I'm gathering here, you had made that decision to just put it behind you. You're, you're, you know, no regrets kind of an idea, just move forward. And, uh, we've all run into, I know I have, I should say, run into folks who, who passed on an opportunity like that and never got over it and just didn't. So it's, it sounds like to me a make what I'm hearing from you is not just, uh, understanding your priorities, but also, uh, being comfortable in making that decision and, and moving forward with your best effort on what, whichever decision you end up making. Yeah,

David Leopold - Criterium Engineers: 39:59

I think that's right. And I've often heard, uh, uh, I've I've heard people ask questions in some theme of, would you, would you consider your success locker? Would you consider yourself your, your success hard work? Like how'd you get there? And, and I know it may sound like a little bit of a cop out, but I think it's a mix of both and that you make your own luck. And if you don't put yourself out there and you don't put the effort in to make something happen, then the luck won't be there. And certainly there are things that are just incredible coincidences that somehow things just fall into place, but, but for the most part, you got to work really hard to get to that place where the luck can happen.

Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team: 40:53

That's a great point. That's a great point. And that's a great transition into this idea of multipliers. Certainly we're, we're in the business of multiplication and you are in franchising, certainly the business of multiplication, but, uh, tell us, uh, w were there any multipliers that you used in business and your profession? What, uh, that, that you could share?

David Leopold - Criterium Engineers: 41:15

I'd say I'd, I'd, I'd break it down maybe into business multipliers and personal multipliers, and some, sometimes there's crossover between the two, but when I think about a business multipliers, I think one thing that is always important is at least certainly in the business that I'm in today, which is yes, it's a consulting engineering business, but because it's a professional service, we don't make anything. You know, our greatest asset is the quality of the people and the work that they can do for a client. And so when I think about a great business multiplier, at least throughout my career, people are your best multiplier because you cannot do it alone. And so if you can't build a strong team or get great people to work together, you're not going to get that network effect or that multiplier effect. You know, if you try to do it alone, it's just not going to happen. And you can make every sports reference. You, you, you could want around great individual players versus great teams, and you can do that about any company as well. It's all about, can you, how do you multiply by bringing great people around you? So I think that's one, one great multiplier that I've found in business. I'd say the other great multiplier in business is what I call the get back plan and all great plans, um, are sort of doomed for failure. The moment that you find yourself in a crisis scenario. And right here we are in the midst of a global pandemic, and you have to get comfortable with understanding not only what your plan is, but what's your plan when that plan doesn't work. So this concept of a get gap plan, I give a lot of credit to one of my, one of the people I worked for in the cable business, where we would, we would be talking on the phone very regularly and he would ask, you know, how many new subscribers do you have and how many new units have you sold of this? And what's your budget. And when, when the numbers weren't coming in, the reaction was, well, how are you going to get it back? It wasn't a acknowledging the, Oh, maybe you didn't get it. It's well, how are you going to get it? And so having this get back plan, I think, is a great multiplier because it helps you navigate those tougher times when, without having to think, what do I do now? You know, it's more about, I know what I'm going to do now, because I knew if I didn't achieve a certain level or that I'd have this other plan that I was going to put into place. And so having to get back plan is probably one of the other multipliers. And maybe the last one, I like to kind of talk in three sometimes, you know, the third one is, so people is one get back plan is two and a third one is take the shots when you have them. And if there's, you know, if there's any lesson in, in business or, or, and this bleeds over into the personal side of things too, is if, if I didn't take the shot to go work at the NBA, no pun intended, um, I would have always wondered. And, you know, if, if I ended up having to leave, uh, a personal life and personal circumstances and in Maine, that that were really great for raising my family and just pursued the professional side of things. If I didn't take that shot back to what you were saying, Tom, then you would regret it. And so take the shots when you have them. And I recognize sometimes it's hard to know when you have the shot to take, but, uh, but generally I think you'll, you'll have a pretty good idea about it. So those are some of the business multipliers, I think that are, that are out there. And I think on the, on the personal side, uh, certainly take the shots when you have them personally, too. So don't just do it from a business perspective, taken on the personal side too. I'd say a second one personally, that I often think about in my own development is how do I find a way to get uncomfortable? Because if things become too comfortable, you start to go through the motions. You may not pay as much attention to all the details. And so I think from a personal multiplier perspective, remember, it's okay to be uncomfortable because you're gonna, you're gonna grind it out, I think a little bit more. So that's a second multiply, I think on the personal side. And a third thing is, um, I think a great lesson in terms of beginning to grow yourself is remember to volunteer, to do the things that you're asking others to do. And so if you, if you get into a position in your career where you're often requesting others to do things that you're not actually doing yourself, you're going to find yourself in a place where you're not understanding enough about what others are doing and you don't grow that way. You know, you, you, you find yourself too far removed from the day to day. And, um, and so trying to volunteer what you are, what you're asking others to do is, is also a good way to continue to develop yourself. Wow.

Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team: 46:49

That's, uh, that's really great and really, truly living empathy, right? I mean, putting, putting on walking a mile in someone else's shoes off phrases, we've heard. I mean, but you're, you're literally saying actually walk in the shoes, go, don't, don't get so far disconnected that, that you don't understand what's what's going on there to make it happen. Right. That's beautiful. And, and, and, uh, you know, as a closing question, we always like to ask every guest is what does success mean to you?

David Leopold - Criterium Engineers: 47:24

Wow. You know, in fact, I think I probably already said it, which is life inevitably has a set of trade offs. That's the nature of, of our existence. And so success to me is being comfortable with the trade offs you inevitably have to make, because once you gain that comfort level, you have made your own success.

Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team: 47:50

That's fantastic. That's summarized extremely well. And you're spot on spot on. We're all making trade offs and, uh, David, any, any parting words or anything you'd like to share with the audience here as we kind of close out here,

David Leopold - Criterium Engineers: 48:08

I, I don't really have anything else to share. I just appreciate the time. And thanks for giving me the opportunity to answer some questions and have a great conversation. It's, it's not often that you sit back and reflect on, on different aspects and milestones in your career. So I probably haven't taken that, that look back, uh, down memory road in a while. So, you know, at least at a minimum, I'll probably make my kids listen to this, so I don't have to listen, listen to me.

Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team: 48:37

Oh, that's wonderful. Well, it's, it's an amazing story. And we've worked together now for a while and, um, you know, hearing, I know some of the background, but hearing just the, the, uh, depth and variety and just, uh, the, the, you know, the turns and change of course along the way is really incredible and impressive. And, uh, I'm so grateful for your time and for you joining us and just really, really thankful for the opportunity to spend some time talking to you and having you share your wisdom with our, with our listeners

David Leopold - Criterium Engineers: 49:15

Today. Well, I hope your listeners get at least something out of the today's conversation. And, uh, I'm sure we'll talk soon. Thanks again, Tom.

Tom DuFore - Big Sky Franchise Team: 49:22

Thank you. Really appreciate it. And so that was our interview with David Leopold and I think it was absolutely fantastic. I'm sure that you do too, just packed full of fantastic information. And so let's jump into our takeaways from the interview. So first and foremost, what David said really resonated with me, and he said, life is a series of tradeoffs. Life is a series of trade offs, and you have to be comfortable with whichever decision you make at that point of the trade off. Don't look back, don't look back at what might've been or what could have been focused on the decision you made and give it everything you've got. The second piece he said is that you need to have a great team with you. If you're going to grow and multiply, he said, you've have to have that great team around you. So make sure that as you're building your team, you're building it with the right people. And if you don't think or feel like you have the right people on your team right now, or the right team and your network, then start looking for the right team and figure out how you can build that right team. And number three, he said, take the shots when you have them awfully fitting, given his experience with the NBA, his early on career as an entrepreneurial beginnings and selling trading cards, but truly take those shots when you have them. And sometimes it's hard to know as David pointed out, it's hard to know when you have that shot. When do you have that shot? So you need to be observant and aware of what opportunity might be there that you need to take that shot. Cause if you, if you don't have that, if you don't take the shot, you'll never know. And so those are the key takeaways from today's podcast. And now it's time for today's win, win today's win-win is what David described as the get back plan. And the get back plan is today's win-win because it's something that as a leader, you should have your get back plan. If there's anything that this global pandemic has taught us or shown us as a leader of your business or your organization, you need to have that get plan back plan. How are you going to get back to where you were? How are you going to get back to what you may have been, may have missed? How are you going to get back? And then secondly, this is a tool for you to use with your own staff and your team, have them build out and prepare a, get back plan. If they miss their numbers or they don't hit their deadlines, how are they going to get back? And I am confident that this is going to help you be a better leader. It's going to help you develop a better team, and it's going to help your business grow faster and go further than you would without it. So that's, today's, win-win the get back plan, David, thanks again for being on the show. Uh, if you have not already subscribed, please subscribe, give us a review and share this with your friends or anyone you think may benefit from the information in the podcast. Thanks for being here. Have a great week And we'll see you back on the next edition. Multiply your success.