You Are the Sky, Not the Weather with Interfaith Pastor Greg Stamper

What if you stopped believing you are the storm and remembered that you are the sky?

In this thoughtful conversation, CJ sits down with Pastor Greg "PG" Stamper to explore the spiritual journey beyond certainty, fear, and rigid beliefs. Raised in the Pentecostal tradition before finding a home in New Thought, PG shares how leaving familiar ground became an invitation into a larger understanding of consciousness, compassion, and transformation.

Together they explore meditation, neurodivergence, the surprising connection between science and spirituality, and why daily practices help us navigate life's changing weather rather than avoid it. Along the way, PG offers one of the most memorable metaphors you'll hear: You are the sky, not the weather.

The conversation also touches on Joseph Campbell, Rumi, creativity, music as spiritual download, and the practice of living with curiosity instead of certainty. If you've ever wondered how to remain centered while life changes around you, this episode offers a gentle reminder that above every storm, the sun is still shining.

If you'd like to learn more about Pastor Greg "PG" Stamper, you can connect with him through Celebration Spiritual Center, where he co-pastors a global online New Thought community with inspiring Sunday services and weekly programs. You can also find his music, teachings, and resources through his Multimanifestor coaching platform. Follow Greg on Instagram, TikTok, X, and Facebook at @iamgregstamper, or search for Celebration Spiritual Center on YouTube to experience more of his message of compassion, consciousness, and practical spirituality.

Want to learn more about CJ Miller? Check out his Spiritual Artist Retreats, 1:1 Personal Coaching, and Speaking Engagements at www.spiritualartisttoday.com. His retreats are designed to help you reconnect with your Creative Intelligence and express your true artistic voice. You can also find his upcoming schedule there, and his book, The Spiritual Artist, is available on Amazon.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Here one of the things I I love, and there's a lyric I wrote and a song Um Behind It All. Um above the rain, the sun still shines, and that's the truth of our life. One of the things I love if I'm ever on a flight and it's raining, and you know, it's raining on the ground, and the you know, the pilot will kind of tell you, oh, you know, we're gonna run through some weather, but you know, once we get up to 30,000 feet. And then when you experience it, like it's soaked on the ground. You go up, you go in, there's there's there's water hitting the windows. I love to sit by the window. And then all of a sudden you get to this moment, you get above the clouds, there's no rain, there's just sunshine, and everything is cool.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

Welcome to the Spiritual Artist Podcast. This is Chris Miller. I invite you to join me as I interview artists from a variety of disciplines. We'll share powerful stories and lessons learned while making their art. You're listening to CJ Miller, the host. Um, it's been a couple weeks, right, since I've had a podcast, and that's because I went up to uh Massachusetts and scoured out a retreat center up there that I'm sure you're gonna love. So check that out in the future. But what you're gonna love even more is the energy of this guy that we have here today. So I want to introduce Pastor Greg Stamper, uh, known as to many as PG. He is the co-founder and co-pastor of Celebration Spiritual Center, a global virtual new thought ministry founded in 2013. Some of you should know that I was trained in New Thought Beliefs as well, so I think this is interesting. He is an ordained interfaith minister, fourth generation preacher. We're gonna have to unpack that. That's amazing. Life coach, entrepreneur, and recording artist. So he's also a musician. So he brings art, spirituality together. You can see why I'm attracted to this person, this wonderful motivator. Um, he is the creator of multi-manifestor coaching programs and an app designed to support neurodivergent spiritual seekers in creating more fulfilling and prosperous lives, another thing to talk about. Um, with more than 20 years in technology leadership, including work with the human rights organization Witness, Greg also advocates for transcendental meditation as a pathway to personal well-being. He has shared stories with leaders such as Michael Beckwith and Les Brown, appeared on the Dr. Oz show, and was honored with the 2018 New Thought Walden Award for Interfaith and Intercultural Understanding. I can't think of a more appropriate time right now in the world to look at interfaith and intercultural understanding. So, hey, good morning, PG. How are you?

SPEAKER_00 2:50

I'm great. I'm great. It's good to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

Oh, I'm excited. Um, listeners, I found uh PG on TikTok. So he he has a TikTok channel that you can follow. And he his energy was so bright and so wonderful that I had to reach out to him because I thought this is the kind of energy that I want on the Spiritual Artist podcast. So um how long have you been doing TikTok? A while?

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Not too long. Um I joined TikTok sort of late. I was late to the game. So maybe the last two, three years, I've always been a big Instagram person, but it was it was time to branch out. And so I dove in headfirst into the TikTok waters.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

It's kind of interesting, isn't it? I mean, it's something you, you know, if you're if you're a fourth generation preacher, this is right, this is something your grandfather or great-grandfather wouldn't even have thought of, right? Can you preach on TikTok?

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Right, right. Yeah, which is amazing. It's amazing, you know. Um, it's interesting because I, you know, my dad, he had a radio show uh for for many years when we lived in Florida. So I got to see him sort of use the technology of that time in the 80s. He would produce the show at home. He had like all of this cool equipment. Um, and I tell him that, I remind him from time to time of like the things that I'm doing, you know, he set the precedent for uh in terms of showing me what was possible to kind of do it um, you know, in-house.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

So was he, were they also new thought or did you go?

SPEAKER_01 4:20

All right, well, we have to we're taught, let's talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Oh, yeah. So I was I was raised in the Pentecostal church, um, you know, a background that I'm proud of, um, and kind of always had a sense, one we always had a sense of service, always had a sense of of ministry and being involved and serving people. And and that that meant from everything from sort of traditional ministry to you know serving the community, uh feeding programs, all of those sorts of things. And um it was in uh uh 99 and the 2000 where I, you know, sort of accepted my call to ministry and and went to seminary. And um I attended new uh New York Theological Seminary in Manhattan, and everything changed. Um I I was I came into an awareness of things about the Bible that I was not aware of. I was challenged in ways to see the Bible and and and unlearn the Bible in ways that I hadn't, and I had a choice to make, right? I could kind of just go along, right, with sort of what I had always known, um, or I could follow to see where this path would take me. Uh and it took me somewhere that I never, ever, ever expected because what it brought back to me was one of my favorite people, Joseph Campbell. And, you know, I love uh his approach to comparative religion and of course um um mythology and the sort of the through line of of the stories that really come from the collective uh consciousness. And I re I went back to the power of myth because it it started to you know awaken certain things in me. And then that took me to to Buddha. And I love to say that Jesus and Buddha are first cousins. When I went to some of those sutras, I it was like I could finish the sentences because I'm like, this, I get the energy, I know where what this teaching is. Um, and ultimately that was such a watershed moment that I could no longer uh limit myself to traditional Christianity. Uh, I didn't know what what that was gonna mean. Um, I left the traditional church and I was kind of in this wilderness experience for seven years uh before I came to New Thought and found New Thought to be a path that would help me sort of embrace all that I had come to know and understand um without a lot of the dogmas and and and some of the other stuff that um comes along with traditional religion. Um and so I'm grateful, you know, I have a home, home in New Thought, uh, which allows me, you know, the freedom to to really explore and teach uh spirituality versus traditional religion. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:04

So how did your uh father feel about that?

SPEAKER_00 7:06

I mean, um, well, my dad is is not hardcore or dogmatic. Um, you know, we definitely we definitely sort of had an agree to disagree kind of perspective. And um, you know, more than anything, I'm his son, uh, named after him. He loves me unconditionally. So what was most important for him and for me was that our love remained, that we could, you know, still enjoy each other at holidays and all of those things. Um that that and so because we centered that, we never we never got into any sort of weird contentions. Um, and beautifully, he comes to me with questions. Right just the other day, we were having this whole conversation about consciousness, and he was asking me about you know how I define consciousness and thinking about it. This was after watching the Earth Wood and Fire documentary, which was really cool. Oh, wow. Um, so yeah, so we're you know, we're more aligned than we we are um disaligned or unaligned. And, you know, I think that idea of interfaith, um, intercultural understanding, it it's it's something that I embrace almost instinctively that I find those ways to be in harmony with with folks, right? Meeting people where they are without dishonoring myself and and sort of offering uh you know another perspective where it where it's helpful.

SPEAKER_02 8:29

Well, it's interesting because I mean it's really this is interesting times because it's there's a lot of splits going on. Um my goodness. I think I just read even the Lutheran church. I just read this thing about the Lutherans separating. Um and you know, we all know the Methodists had this kind of and even the Baptists have had a yes, yes. Um you think let's talk about this a minute because I love how you compared Buddha to Jesus. And and some of us do see Jesus that way. I do, I definitely do as as pure love. And how did you get there? Did did you find that was just natural that it came from your father?

SPEAKER_00 9:10

Or um, well, the I mean the Jesus Buddha comparison, I mean, that was really about a lot of study. Um, you know, there's there's some great texts now that that parallel. Um, I actually did a sermon series years ago called The Lotus and the Lily, right? So the Lotus being Buddha, the lily, Jesus the lily of the valley, and really put certain texts up against each other, and you can see this commonality. You can see that there's this voice of truth that is the same voice, has a different ring to it, but of course from different times, different cultures. Um, and so it was really for me taking that approach that I had learned in seminary of how to look at any sort of text, right? And and take the historical context, take the cultural context, right, and and pull it apart and understand that look at the translations. Um, that's where I I I brought all of that that training, right, to coming to texts that were texts I wasn't familiar with, right? Texts that I didn't grow up with. Um, and for me, I think it's it's one of those things that you can't unsee once you see it. Um, I I love one of my favorite scenes in The Matrix, right? The Matrix is awesome, of course, but one of my favorite scenes is after Neo has been sort of rescued from the Matrix, right? And there's this whole sort of scene where he's being worked on and they're taking the sort of metal tubes out of his body and all of that. And he finally, once that's done, he has his first conversation with Morpheus. And he asks Morpheus, he says, Why do my eyes hurt? And Morpheus replies, because you've never used them. And that was the moment that I was in, right? That I was finally using my eyes for the first time. And so it's again, it's like you can't unsee this one once you see it. You're because you're you're looking through a new lens, you're looking with new eyes. So yeah, I mean, and of course, there's all kinds of stuff um, you know, there about Jesus potentially even being exposed to to the the Eastern teachings. There's a whole tradition that Jesus went to India and um which helps to to prove, you know, it helps to make it make more sense, right? That that he was he was in his own culture, in his own tradition, um teaching uh this the same truth, right? But using his tradition, which was Judaism. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:35

Well, okay, so there's a there's a lot going on there and and it's it's lovely. Um you finished, so you finished, did you get your your license as a minister and then go back to New Thought? Or was it part of the process?

SPEAKER_00 11:52

Yeah, right. So it was part of the process. So so the um program that I was in, excuse me, at New York Theological Seminary was just a two-year program. It wasn't a full master's program. And um it was in that experience I I knew, I just had all this information and knowledge, um, and really went on a on a journey of unlearning. So I left the church that I was at at the time, um, which was tough because I was I was being you know groomed for ministry. This is a very progressive um ministry in terms of very successful, you know, megachurch. And I was one of the you know younger ministers that was, you know, being being um, you know, nurtured to to move forward. Almost everybody in that group, because there were seven of us, all are now thriving pastors. So we all, you know, me, me too, right? But they're still in that traditional um space. Um so I didn't really know what was next. Um and one of the interesting things, and and this really has to do with something that I like to talk about a lot, is is is transformation. I remember having a group, this is so cool. And it's my dad's birthday today. Uh I remember having a conversation with my dad when I was, I went to him first to talk about ministry and feeling the call to ministry. And what he said to me, he said, one, well, I'm not surprised. He said, but I want to say to you um what was said to me that um this path is is not a path to sort of you know reach for, right? Sometimes people think there's there's money and glitz and glamour in ministry. He said, you know, there's going to be difficulty before there's sort of success. And I was like, oh yeah, okay. You know. Um and so what happened for for me and for, you know, not only leaving the tradition that I grew up, grew up in, you know, leaving the church that I was in and I was on this path of success, um, I saw where this was probably going to affect my marriage at the time because my ex-wife and I, we grew up in the same church tradition, our families, it was all related to that. Um, our marriage did end. Um so, you know, I found myself in this place of you, you know, you think, wait, you know, I'm I want to serve God, I want to serve God's people, I want to do these amazing things, and I'm feeling this sense of loss, right? But of course, transformation, the spiritual principle is clear, right? You have an apple seed. The first thing that's necessary. Now, we say, yes, you beat a planted in the ground, but there's loss because that shell, which is its whole identity, has to come off. It can't become what is inside of it with all of the wisdom and intelligence. It can't become that unless that shell is broken, right? And that echoes what what Jesus says, right? A seed must um, you know, go down to the earth and die in order to rise. And so I lived that viscerally, right? And so what I love to say is I don't care what it is in anyone's life, I can walk you through transformation because I know transformation, right? If I don't care if it's, you know, transforming your credit, transforming some area of your finances, releasing weight, um, you know, finding new love, whatever it is, but the path of transformation is is the same. And so so often folks are unwilling to do that. Um, I think that unconsciously, when we have a desire, something that we want to be do or have, unconsciously, what we're really saying to life is I'm ready to change, I'm willing to change. But people don't think of it in that way. It's like, I want this experience, right? I want this lover, I want this car, I want this house, I want this career, I want to live in this location, right? But what you're really saying is I'm I'm ready, I'm willing to change. Because that's what the seed is saying when it gets buried to it, it it could remain as the seed. You know, I mean, even pumpkin seeds and sunflower seeds are delicious at that state. They don't get to become what they could become. Um, and so, you know, no, no, no heat, no judgment around that. We can live our lives as a seed and have an experience. Um, but if you recognize that there's something within you, wait, I'm a seed and there's more inside of me, there's something that wants to come forth, yeah, then there's a there's a shedding that's it's a part of it's part of this journey. And of course, you know, Campbell, he he talks about all those wonderful myths of the shedding, and that's the hero's journey, right? You have to you leave home, you go down, right? You go down into the belly of the whale, right? You go through that experience, and then you come up and out, right? Triumphant.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

Well, I love that. I you know, it's funny, I've read a lot of things, and and I've read some Joseph Campbell, but I'd I never heard that the ex that that metaphor so clearly stated. You know, I mean, what with an apple or a seed, and then you have to shed you have to shed the exterior. So this is that's that I mean, I can't imagine if you had to like leave your your wife and your church. That's yeah. How okay, since you're so this transformation is so key, how how does one keep their eye on on the vision, on the intent through all that?

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Yeah, yeah. Well, what I've what I've learned is that um there's that there's definitely there has to be some internal anchor. Um, and and over the years I've really found that um certain practices of meditation are really helpful in that, right? There has to be this sense of being connected to something that is above, beyond, even more powerful than our external experiences, right? And so that is the gift of of meditation. Um, when we when we learn certain practices to go to that level, which in in uh canonized scripture is called the kingdom of heaven, right? Which we read in the text that says the kingdom of heaven is within, right? It's the it's the Reverend Michael calls it the realm of everlasting good. Um now, unfortunately, so many of us have been taught to think of this as some thing out there, right? Some other even if it's in the here and now, it's still out there. But of course, many, it's later in life after you leave your body. But the recognition is that the kingdom of heaven, this realm of everlasting good, is right here, right now, which is why we have that famous passage in scripture in Matthew 6: Seek ye first the kingdom of God and its righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you. So, what is that seeking, right? That seeking is really about the daily going within. And that daily going within does so many wonderful things, right? First on the physiological level, there's so many wonder, so much wonderful evidence and research now, right? Studies that show in the ways that when we tap into that realm, that the body begins to heal. Um, but also what you're doing is you're now at a at a physical level in your brain, what you're starting to do is stimulate this part of the brain that's called the anterior cingulate, right? Which is then allowing and supporting your executive function and supporting you in being less triggered, right? In that fight, flight, or freeze mode. And the anterior cingulate, um, some researchers call it the inner negotiator. So that what you're now able to do as you're experiencing life and you're in that transitory phase, right? You're not where you want to be, you're not where you were. Your inner negotiator is helping you to name those things in your experience, um, not from a place of fear, um, to see what's happening in your life and know that um this too shall pass. Um, being able to really sit in that space of knowing that, you know, where I am is not where I was and it's not where I will be. And I have experienced the the passing of so many things. I I love to say to folks all the time, right? To remember you're the sky, not the weather. That's what that supports you in doing, is really understanding you're the sky and then taking that out in the world when you're experiencing weather. Because the other thing I love to say, this spiritual path is not a force field, right? This spiritual path is not, you know, right. It's not like, oh, well, you, you know, you you won't get divorced, you won't, you know, go bankrupt. You won't have the like the human experience is is filled with all kind of stuff. And um, right, this spiritual path is not not some kind of protection from that. What it is, is the ability to navigate. It's like um having a compass. It's right, it's like having a GPS. So you have something that supports you as you're moving through the winds and waves, but no longer being stuck in that experience and no longer saying things like, why is this happening to me, or no longer believing that the gods are judging you or bringing this calamity to you. Um, that's that that's the gift. Um, and when I say meditation practices, you know, I mean, we could talk about details, but really it's um any, any, any, anything right that can support you in being centered, that you make a daily practice, right? Breathing is the easiest thing to do, right? Just set your timer for five minutes, right? Breathe in for a count of five and breathe out for a count of five, just for five minutes. If you do that every day, oh my God. Right? It's literally a game changer. And there's the the there's the the research that that demonstrates that. There's a wonderful book, How God Changes the Brain, by Andrew Newbert, um, which you know breaks down the research. It's it but it's wonderful, right? And they talk about the simple practices, you have to believe in God um for these things to work. But the other side of that is fear-based religion does the exact opposite. So as I talk about these beautiful things that happen in the brain, right, from this place of uh, you know, connection, from this place of harmony, from this place of love, fear-based religion does the exact opposite. And so then that's where and why we see so much of the separation in our society today. Right. That it's it we we can see it at the at the brain level, right? Because there's there's complete separation. That other piece that I talked about with the anterior singular, that's the part of the brain that's um documented. It's associated with the ability to be empathetic and compassionate. So if you're not stimulating that part of um yourself mentally it's there's no way to be empathetic or compassionate, right? And we need more of that. We need more and more and more of that in the world. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

So there's a couple things I'm trying to remember everything. I'm like oh no all good all good yeah I want to I want to pick that one up but I want to pick that one up um there's actually three things. So you said I love this that phrase it's something that I I um am working on in my third book um but you said you're the sky not the weather so I I would love to have you unpack that a minute or explain that to the listener.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

What exactly does that mean that when you when you acknowledge that you are the sky what two things right so one um acknowledging that we are the sky and knowing that we are the sky is coming into the awareness and the acceptance of our oneness with the all that is right so someone say our oneness with God our oneness with the divine um our oneness with consciousness with spirit right and use whatever term feels good to you understanding that it then brings you into this awareness of being a witness and part of that you know can come with age I I turned 50 next month which I'm excited about right and so having right having just a certain experience of life you start to it you can review your life if you take the time to see how temporary conditions are right that I've all right I've been down I've been way down right and I've gotten all the way back up and and beyond um which lets me realize that you know I can remember that when I'm in another down state or in another disappointing state that wait okay this you know um old phrase that from from from church that I I love and still you trouble don't last always right that is a powerful statement of truth. Yeah right snow doesn't last always the weather doesn't last always hurricanes don't last always right and so understanding that you're the sky here one of the things I I love and there's a lyric I wrote and a song um Behind It All Above the rain the sun still shines and that's the truth of our life one of the things I love if I'm ever on a flight and it's raining and you know it's raining on the ground and the you know the pilot will kind of tell you oh you know we're gonna run through some weather but you know once we get up to 30,000 feet. And then when you experience it like it's soaked on the ground. You go up you go in there's there's there's water hitting the windows I love to sit by the window. And then all of a sudden you get to this moment you get above the clouds there's no rain there's just sunshine and everything is cool. And of course from that perspective I can't get down and like check is it still really raining down there? But I know the experience I just had right above the rain the sun still shines.

SPEAKER_02 25:48

That's the truth of our lives so understanding or embracing that reality and reminding ourselves we're the sky not the weather the sky has this eternal experience of all is well and the temporary is the rain the snow the the cold the extreme heat the extreme cold all of the things in between um those things are temporary so it's interesting when I yeah because when I think when I think of sky when I think of meditation for me or or presence it's aligning it's aligning to the all that is it's it's when when I sit down and I go and I kind of feel the room I I mean literally I feel the room about me I feel absolutely and and that alignment and I loved how you said helps you to step into the witness. Yes yeah yeah okay so I want to talk about something else you mentioned that I think is fascinating. You bring up the idea of how the brain works oh yeah and then you talk about that that you have training in neurodivergence uh do you feel that and so let's unpack that because oh yeah you're you're kind of bringing science and spirituality together then yeah yeah that it's one of my favorite things neuroscience and um there's a fairly new term neurotology which I love um so it's a it yeah it's it's one of those spaces that I I love to talk about and think about.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

So I I have ADHD um and this was actually something that um I just was officially diagnosed last year uh and that happened as happens with a lot of adults when their child their children are diagnosed and then there's a recognition of of of some of the genetic connections. So my daughter was diagnosed in college uh and to to support her and to understand more about what was going on with her I um there was a a friend of mine who recommended a book to me and then as I started reading the book I was like wait a minute this is my life that I'm reading here um went through the process and and and um received an official diagnosis and so what's what's been fascinating to me is right I've always had this interest in neuroscience. So there are a lot of things that I was doing that have been supportive of me and I didn't know why. I thought it was I'm just hacking my brain and using these cool techniques. Meanwhile I really really needed to use these things um so what a lot of the what I've developed in my coaching practices of a lot of the things that I I always test things out first you know on myself with myself in my life and then I bring them to my my clients um and what I what was interesting I've I've attracted many many um clients who who are also neurodivergent um some who had had recently been diagnosed um and so it was great for me to to really be able to to name and and say that that's um you know that's the population that I've worked with I work with everyone but recognizing that a lot of neurodivergent folks tend to also uh be on this the spiritual path and kind of moving away from traditional religion so it worked well um so one of the things that I I learned particularly for me with ADHD uh ADHD affects our executive functioning right so that can look like um things related to memory um you know remembering things remembering tasks remembering to pay bills um uh and so my very first experiences with meditation came out of crisis so I I talked about um you know our the divorce I was recently at the time recently separated um trying to navigate the co-parenting at that moment I our daughter was uh uh four years old when we separated and um I had recently started a new job and there were just so many things going on and I was I was stressed. Um and what I learned from the spiritual path I wasn't practicing meditation in any specific way but you know I kept hearing and reading about these benefits and I just said out loud one day I need to learn to meditate. I go to work the next day and one of my colleagues comes up to me he said I have these CDs it's like some meditation stuff you want it I'm gonna throw it away and I was like talking about manifesting right right right and so it ended up being this like at the time incredibly expensive program center uh center point meditation they have this hollow sync method um and what I didn't know at the time was um that those meditations which I begin to use daily actually um work really well um uh in in supporting you and again creating that connection stimulating the anterior cingulate which is then stimulating as my good friend Bob Roth loves to say the CEO of the mind which is our executive functioning um and so I was able to thrive in in ways that I don't know that I would have been able to thrive had I not been um using that meditation practice and continuing to do that. Now later 10 years ago I I learned transcendental meditation which also has great great um results for folks with with ADHD there are a lot of folks that just using transcendental meditation was all that was necessary without potentially using medication um I'm I'm an advocate of medication so this is not that that kind of thing um but um in in under so in in taking on these meditation practices I was supporting myself um in in really thriving I don't know how else I would have been able to accomplish all that I've accomplished in in my life thus far had I not had those things specifically in the last 10 years with um practicing transcendental meditation I can see clearly um between navigating my full-time work as a uh senior technology manager at Witness and it's a global human rights organization and all that goes with that um you know um leading co-leading Celebration Spiritual Center and our choir and all of the other things and then of course being a dad and and being a a partner to to my to our partner Yolanda and all of those things you know it I don't yeah I would have burned out a long time ago. So you were actually you were doing the the meditation before you realized that you were ADHD yeah yeah and I can see now how it benefited me incredibly you know still had challenges and still have challenges right um there's a there's a phrase within the the the ADHD community you know that pills don't teach skills right so it's like even if you take medication there's still things you have to learn and sort of how to how to support yourself. I don't have a rhyme for it but meditation you know this meditation is elation I don't know right you know so it's supportive absolutely supportive but you still need to have things in place and and that's what I've learned. There's certain things that I would only use um prior to my diagnosis if I felt like okay I have a lot going on or I have a big project and then I would use techniques for instance to break uh break something down into smaller tasks which is something that is sort of it's one of those things that that you're you're taught right with with ADHD that that's will help to to minimize task paralysis. So but I would only do that for certain projects. If I'm getting ready to prepare a launch a course I would do it in those cases. I would do it if I had you know some big project at work I've I've since learned that it's beneficial I do it for everything now um and so it helps me thrive in in a new way um that's yeah it's been awesome.

SPEAKER_02 33:50

So when you say just for the listeners and for me because I've heard the I've heard the term neurodivergent and all I can say is is thinking my my my definition is thinking different. Thinking different so what is your definition? How would you describe it? Who falls in those categories?

SPEAKER_00 34:06

Right right so when we talk about neurodivergence we're we're really talking about um folks that uh it could be ADHD uh folks on the autism spectrum um OCD falls within that so it's literally our our our brains um function differently right it's not a good bad right or wrong the term neurodivergent uh I think was developed to kind of name something that's you know can't fully be named or understood and you know it can uh sometimes even be be used in a way that's that's othering because it's like neurodivergent versus neurotypical but there's the recognition that the world is set up based on a a certain way of being that doesn't always support neurodivergent folks. And so that's why that that um um sort of term sort of came into being and and and now on social media you know it's it's it's sort of everywhere. But there is the recognition that you know ADHD uh again the autism spectrum et cetera they they are considered disabilities for a host of reasons. And there's that recognition that again there's a lot of things in the way that the world is set up that doesn't take into consideration how um other brains work right in the same way that you know the the the world is set up and you know thankfully now we have so many um spaces that we have AD um a compliance right so you know there there should be ramps there there should be those things but for a long time most of the world was not set up to consider oh what if someone with a wheelchair needs well we might be sliding backwards on some of those things.

SPEAKER_02 35:49

Yeah unfortunately unfortunately it's kind of scary yeah yeah but um you know it's funny I was thinking about when you you're doing the meditation I don't know how I I stumbled upon this but when I was in my 20s I started listening to um these med they would meditation music so yes you know you'd buy back in the day back in the day we'd have CD players but I would I would every afternoon I've always worked for myself and literally even when I had an office with employees there was a loft and I would and after lunch I'd go up to the loft and I'd put on this 30 minute tape that for chimes it would take you all the way down and then it slowly brought you back.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

Yep yep did it for years I mean I probably wore the CD out but I I recognize that that and I still do that I still like to lay down but I do it myself I don't need that's right exactly exactly yeah now I just I I I I know this sounds odd but I'll count backwards no that's not that's it I get it do you do that yeah dude yeah absolutely well I'm definitely I'm definitely ADHD and my my son we adopted a son he's now 22 and he's ADHD so in my generation they just hit you exactly unfortunately yeah yeah I just got pop my father would pop me in the head I mean yep yep calm down boom calm down boom exactly right right exactly yep and and so I never did the medication but the medications are they're they can be traumatizing as well they they can be you gotta have find the right one right thankfully there's you know uh lot lots more options today but yeah and it and even for folks that it works well for there's side effects that just you know you have to kind of you know figure figure that out and and for some people right choose or or can't continue to take the medication because of the side effects even though they felt the benefits of it but yeah so yeah my son doesn't want to take the medicine he says it makes him feel lifeless you know just yeah well this is why meditation and and again TM in terms of the documentation around transcendental meditation in ADHD is wonderful one of the things that's cool about TM and and the folks in the organization always say it's side effect free right it's 20 minutes twice a day of meditation that's side effect free that has incredible incredible benefits well it's like our in our society we all in America we just want to take a pill but but there's there are things working out going to the gym there are things that ground you yeah absolutely movement I always like to say movement you know and he he does in fact he's at the gym right now I love it yeah for me I right I have to get a workout in every day it's a game changer right and learning that I didn't know that right but learning that I you know I I know what it was like before and I know what it was like you know before I started working out every day and when I wasn't right there was a time I wasn't working out at all but then I could even understand the those periods where I was working out even semi-regularly I was like oh yeah I can see how my life flowed differently I didn't know what was really going on so yeah it's a non-negotiable now yeah it actually I think uh working out actually helps you with anxiety and it calms you so let's go back to that sky the sky metaphor and the weather I think you said yeah uh when you and and and unpack a little bit we have a little bit more time here I just want to talk about your your musician yes yes so and it obviously musician I'm I'm just listening to you talk I can tell you're obviously very mathematical you're you so when you play the instrument do you feel like you step into the sky um I would say yes you know music is interesting so we talk about the the ministry path I was also born into a very musical family right my dad is is an incredible musician plays too many instruments to name um so again I grew up with that commonality as well and sort of that just naturalness right um seeing him write and produce records and and all of that. So um I think for me what I found particularly once I got to high school you know music became a refuge right it became a place to express myself and um I think in in ways that I I maybe wasn't didn't feel as comfortable expressing myself yet you know um I could channel my thoughts feelings and emotions no matter what was going on I I you know could just sit at the keyboard and play and play and play. So it it became that um and then as a songwriter you know it became a form of I I say sometimes I just get to hear the song first right so it's like these these musical downloads right of you know thoughts and ideas that that come to you and learning how to stay open to that right learning um you know initially as a young songwriter you just you want to write something good and you're kind of you know looking to your heroes and trying to emulate things um but learning to really tap into that that that inner inner voice but also just I think it's it's like the the stuff all around us all the time you know so really you know tuning into those frequencies um it definitely is one of those experiences of of being this guy because it reminds me like as I said I get to hear it first it's it's yeah it's me but it's not me you know yeah yeah I'm the creator right I own the copyright yeah you know but I I'm so clear that there's there's something coming through me right that's that's bigger than than this current physical expression.

SPEAKER_02 42:06

And I think and so I think that has informed my my my my spiritual worldview and and awareness right that I just know that just as there's something coming through me right that same thing is happening through everyone else right that we're we're you know we're just the you know seemingly individual expressions of this thing that is everyone and everything definitely I I think that that's that's the that's where that that step though might be because of that part of your brain being developed to recognize that everybody is that you know because it seems like some people don't seem to think that they think only I don't know where that click happens when you recognize well everybody is spirit everybody is God and so I I do it and every animal and everything and if if I am if I do something mean or torture to anything or selfish I'm affecting the one myself.

SPEAKER_00 43:10

Yes exactly exactly yeah and you know it's my my daily prayer that more and more and more people come to that awareness. You know I'm reminded that you know when we think so often even when I say something like that more and more people we we tend to feel like everyone needs to get it right and until everyone gets it we can't change the world right but you know if we think about tipping the scales right you know if you have 50 and 50 I only need one to come over to the other side to you know to tip the scale I don't need every everyone you know um and that's and that's important you know even as we again look at the state of the world and and even specifically the United States you know um my my desire is always to to call in as many people As possible onto this side. But I recognize that all won't come and all are not necessary to tip the scales. Right. And we we want to tip the scales and then keep it on the side of love, of harmony, of inclusion, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:16

You know, it's it's that catch too. Uh so that that's your purpose, right? That's what I'm hearing. That's your purpose. Yeah. So that's the catch, right? You can go and study and be an interfaith leader. I consider myself interfaith, but you you encounter these people that are so rigidly stuck in their dogma. They are so that their dog, and especially if their dogma is hurt the other people.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 44:42

Or eliminate them, or grind them down, or make them agree with me.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

Any ideas? I was gonna say, any ideas of how to transcend that?

SPEAKER_00 44:53

Yeah, well, yeah, it's it's interesting, you know. I'm reminded in this moment, right? There's the the the wonderful line from the the Rumi poem. It's a translation. Um, you know, out beyond ideas of right doing and wrongdoing, there's a field. Meet me there. And so what I'm always reminded of is I my work is always to make sure that I'm I'm in that field, right? Because it's easy for me to to get sucked back into the right doing and wrongdoing. And what my what my life and my experience has demonstrated to me is that when I'm uh firmly planted in the field, which is out beyond ideas of right doing and wrongdoing, right? It's so it's not even about being on my side, right, or my theology or whatever. It's like when I'm there, the ways in which uh people are shifted and changed and drawn to me or respond differently without my having to, you know, force or or do things, um, it you know, it appears miraculous. It's it appears magical. Um, but it's that recognition of that's where that's where I get to stay, right? And and continue to do my work to learn how to stay there as much as possible. And and and again, I do think it right, this is part of my sort of why I'm here on the planet, right? To sort of be that person in the small or or larger interactions that I have. Um, but I do believe it comes from that place, which kind of takes us back to this idea of the meditation, right? Of going back right daily, daily, right? Putting yourself in that space um so that you can, when you're out in the world, right, it starts raining, and so you get your umbrella, right? You don't freak out, or you, you know, you don't get pissed off, or um, and that's that's practice, right? No, none of us are there all the time, right? We're we're all human, we continue to be human. Um, but it is it is amazing, right? I mean, we we use the words like, oh, you know, love heals all, or oh, when you're being loving. Um, but I think sometimes people while being well-meaning, um, are still living in that binary of right doing and wrongdoing. And so it's like love is is a synonym for right. And the opportunity is to move out of right um into uh again, going to that field, which I I I see as this idea of even my ideas of right are limited. Right? They're they're absolutely limited. Um, Joseph Campbell, I love Joseph Campbell quote all the time power of the myth. There's one of my favorite quotes. He says the virtues of our past become the vices of our present or our future. And so the idea is like even the rightness, it may have been right in yesterday, but today it could be a vice, right? It could act, or just and that vice could be not that it's it's bad, but that it's limiting, that there's a better idea, that there's a a grander uh idea, there's there's something even more harmonious. And so as long as I'm holding on to my good that seems right, I'm also limiting that which is unlimited. So that's why I want to continue to be in the field, because it's supporting me and not even getting caught up in my good ideas or even good ideas that worked at one point, but that I'm constantly open, recognizing that this thing that we call God, the spirit, source, consciousness, uh is is unlimited, is unbounded, and uh infinite possibilities live within it. And so I'm I'm interested in in more possible sure, it's still possible. I'm interested in more possibility. Um letting that letting letting that unfold. Um and so that's where it becomes interesting, right? It's like um, for all I know, I don't know anything, right? Because as soon as I think I know, um you're you're done. Yeah, yeah. You know, um Ernest Holmes, the famous quote, Ernest Holmes talks about staying open at the top. Um, my theology professor, he he used to tell us all the time that you want to get to the place where you're living from this place of believing while knowing all the data isn't in. Suggesting that if new data comes in, you're willing to expand your belief. You're willing to change, change your belief and understanding new data will always keep coming in. So that's why you always you must be open and available to this theology, this path that you have, it's it's not fixed, right? It's it's constantly morphing and changing and growing and and being molded. Um, new data is coming in, right? And of course, unfortunately, tradition, and I would say we talk so often about traditional religion, there's traditional spirituality too, right? In the sense of there's a rigidness um in in many of these circles, or even politically, right? We think left or right, right? But there's like rigid leftist, you know, the ideologies, right? That they don't new data's come in. Can we, you know, are we staying open at the top? And so that's always the our opportunity. That's the field beyond right doing or wrongdoing.

unknown 50:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:34

That's beautiful. That was beautiful, PG. Uh, you know, it's funny because even when I was involved at uh a Center for Spiritual Living, they used that, they used that quote, but they didn't quite they didn't quite believe it. You know, they they they they still and I I love how you explain it, they didn't quite believe that, and I love this that God is speak is always is still speaking to us. Always always people want to say God was a thing that happened thousands of years. No, it is an ongoing energy source that is speaking to us right now, absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:10

Right now, right now.

SPEAKER_02 51:13

Well, I I love this. This is a there's I think we touched on so many, there's so many different aspects of you. You know, and you I want to tell you you brought up a couple things that's really interesting. Um I um I'm working on my third book, and you that's exciting. Yeah, it is, and you used a couple terms that are real big in my third book.

SPEAKER_00 51:31

Um good, I look forward to it.

SPEAKER_02 51:33

Yeah. Oh, I want to share with our listeners because I have to talk about this because it made me feel so good. Is um I sent PG a copy of my book, Spiritual Parable, and I and I wanted uh him to read it, and I didn't hear from I didn't hear from you, and I thought, uh, well, it's probably on a pile somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 51:50

Nope.

SPEAKER_02 51:51

But you said you read it or some of it, and then you've actually read all of it. And you've actually used some of the stories, which some of the stories are kind of some of the themes of some of the stories are in what we just talked about.

SPEAKER_00 52:02

Yes, exactly. Yeah, that was like this is this is totally my jam. Like I love this, right? So we've used the readings. Um, we always share a reading uh before our our Wednesday weekly Wednesday morning prayer. So I've used the readings there, and I've encouraged our congregation to buy the book, and many, many have and and love it because it's a wonderful text to use to ground you daily, right? It's part of your daily spiritual practice.

SPEAKER_02 52:23

It's sort of like a little mini meditation, it's a little bit of connecting with the one around you. Yes, I will tell you. So I am uh releasing a coloring book that goes with it, and I'm getting my proof this Thursday, so it'll be out on the market July 15th. But I went out to all the people I interviewed on podcasts, I asked them to draw a coloring book page to match the story. So it's it's all not quite 40 artists, maybe 26 different artists, but it's out there, and I'd love I'd love to send you, you know, if if you ever get these together, because yeah, I'll send you a couple. Um because I'm excited about it. And now moving on to my third book, which you just mentioned. So we'll talk about the field. It's the field is a key word in my next book. Oh, nice, nice, nice. Uh my next book is called Kite Keeper. Kite Keeper. Anyway, um, I look forward to it.

SPEAKER_00 53:15

That's exciting.

SPEAKER_02 53:16

And we go out to the field to do the kite flying. Anyway, so yeah, so is there any anything else you'd like to share about you, about what you're doing, what's coming up that people would like to know?

SPEAKER_00 53:25

Or sure, sure. Um, you can always uh get in touch with me on social media. So I am Greg Stamper, um, Facebook, social media, um, Instagram, TikTok, um X, aka Twitter, aka X X. Um, also definitely um, you know, come check us out, Celebration Spiritual Center. We're we're streaming every Sunday. Uh, so you can find us on YouTube. Um, and then also Multi-Manifester, right? Which is my coaching program. You can download the app for free. There's there's lots of free um things there, courses, et cetera. And I'm always um teaching new courses and adding ebooks and and other courses. So there's lots of things to support you. But if um, you know, any any type of support someone's listening um that they're looking for, um, we talked about transformation, right? And you're thinking about, oh, wait, you know, what I yeah, I'm in the I'm the seat is broken and I'm scared, right? Whatever. We can talk. We can talk, reach out. So you do coaching too. Do you do uh one-on-one? Yes, I do. Yes, yeah, one-on-one and group. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:28

All right. Well, I appreciate it. This has been great. I I I love your I love your energy and I love all the things you can do.

SPEAKER_00 54:35

Yeah, I I enjoy every moment of it.

SPEAKER_02 54:37

Thanks. So, listeners, thanks for following the Spiritual Artist Podcast. Um, it's on all the podcast players. I also put a copy on YouTube. Um, keep your eyes open for my new book, uh Spiritual Parable. It's a coloring book companion. It's it's a great way to buy the book and a coloring book so you read the story and you ponder the questions while you do something physical and you actually color pages because it's somatic movement that helps you ground those messages in, think about them. So thanks again for listening to the Spiritual Artists Podcast, and we will see you soon. Goodbye. Thanks again for listening to the Spiritual Artists Podcast. Whether you're watching this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play, or iHeartRadio, make sure you choose the subscribe button so that you will receive updates when new segments are released. Most importantly, be still, listen, and know that you are a spiritual artist.