GB 205 TRANSCRIPT Fruit Tree Trellising
Farmer Fred
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Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot.
Farmer Fred
So you want to grow fruit trees, but maybe the only area you have is a sunny, narrow side yard. Well, that's not a problem if you trellis those fruit trees. Today, Master Gardener Quentyn Young walks us through step by step construction of a trellis for fruit trees along with the best varieties of fruit trees that are easy to trellis. America's favorite retired college horticulture Professor Debbie flower tells us about a quick growing flowering annual that puts on quite a show. It's tobacco. In many parts of the country, summertime can be tough on your garden, not just for the bouts of heat, but also wildfire smoke that can travel for hundreds of miles. We have tips on how to keep your garden healthy when that smoke arrives. We're podcasting from Barking Dog Studios here in the beautiful abutilon jungle in suburban purgatory. It's the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. And we'll do it all in under 30 minutes. Let's go.
Farmer Fred
A lot of you want to grow fruit trees, but you don't have the room. Is there a solution? Well, yeah, there are plenty of solutions. We've talked about backyard orchard culture a lot on this program , of keeping your fruit and nut trees at a manageable height, but it is still a three dimensional item. It is maybe six feet tall by six or eight feet wide in all directions. But what if you have a narrow space and you want fruit trees? Can you do that? Yes, you can. If you know how to trellis it, if you can build an espalier. And you can. We're at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center in the orchard section where they have several examples of trellising fruit trees. We're talking with Quentyn Young, he's part of the orchard crew out here. He's a Master Gardener. He's the manager of Fair Oaks Boulevard Nursery. And Q, we’re standing in front of a mandarin, the Satsuma Mandarin, the miho wase, and this is a nice homemade trellis. And I guess really, when it comes to making a three dimensional item two dimensional, you need a good solid support.
Quentyn Young
Yeah, I think the first thing is where are you going to put your espalier and then you have to have your structure plan, because that's the most important part to me.
Farmer Fred
Yeah. And it has to be in an area where the sun requirements primarily are going to be fulfilled. If it's a narrow area, just make sure it gets, what , six hours of sun or more a day?
Quentyn Young
ideally, six to eight hours. And if you can, run it on a north-south orientation is even better.
Farmer Fred
all right. And it's fairly simple and direct. Looking at this one you built here and we should point out that the Master Gardeners built it, you didn't run down to the big box store and buy a cheap trellis made out of one by ones.
Quentyn Young
Exactly. Because those are going to fall apart pretty quickly, you want to put a little bit of thought into the structure. They don't have to be complicated. But you do want to, I would say, at least have four by fours for your primary structure. And then you want to have cables that run between the four by fours about every 18 inches to two feet. And these are sunk into the ground. Two feet and they are in concrete.
Farmer Fred
Alright, yeah. Let's talk a little bit about your concrete footings. Here, it looks like you took some one gallon or two gallon plastic pots and filled them with concrete and sunk the four by fours in that .
Quentyn Young
That's exactly what we did. Basically, you want the four by four and concrete to be above grade, they'll help keep them dry and prevent them from rotting out long term. So that's basically what we did.
Farmer Fred
All right, for this Mandarin, for this particular trellis. The two four by fours look to be about oh eight to 10 feet tall. The 1-2-3-4-5-6 wires, like you said, are spaced about 18 inches apart the distance from four by four to four by four looks to be what about 10 feet?
Quentyn Young
I think it's eight on this one. Yeah, yeah. Okay.
Farmer Fred
And the Mihu Wase, the Mandarin that's growing here, is perfect. It's not that wide. It's up to about the fourth wire. The first wire is about a foot and a half off the ground. And then every 18 inches there's another wire for a grand total of six wires. And so this Mihu Wase right now is about five and a half feet tall and it's very narrow. You could easily put that in an eight foot wide walkway.
Quentyn Young
You could. and we keep it it's probably about two feet from the back in terms of depth. And we specifically picked Mandarin because it's going to sort of naturally stay small versus let's say a grapefruit or lemon but you could easily do one of those if you wanted a larger espalier.
Farmer Fred
With a lot of pruning.
Quentyn Young
with a lot of pruning, yeah and more shaping, so this one is been here since 2010. And it's just naturally small and it's easy to keep the shape.
Farmer Fred
How are the branches attached to the wires? And as the branches grow, are they flexible enough that you could wrap around the wire? Or do you want to wrap it around the wire?
Quentyn Young
We don't really wrap it around the wire, but we wrap the ties around the wire and then pull the branches to create more of a two dimensional shape. And we use these rubber ties, because they can expand.
Farmer Fred
Alright, where do you find rubber ties like that?
Quentyn Young
online.
Farmer Fred
Okay, what are they called?
Quentyn Young
rubber, rubber ties. I always forget the name. But if you Google rubber plant ties, it comes up pretty quickly.
Farmer Fred
And again, pruning, you'd probably do it almost a year round.
Quentyn Young
Yeah, we just shape our citrus in general at the Hort Center year round. But this one also, we just shape it from time to time whenever we have a workday.
Farmer Fred
And of course, I know the first question people are going to ask is well, okay, you've taken a three dimensional item and turned it into a two dimensional item. Doesn't that reduce the fruit set?
Quentyn Young
Doesn't seem to. this is a really productive tree. As you can see, there's a lot of fruit on here. So no, it doesn't affect the fruit at all. And plenty of room to walk around it. Yeah. And also, before I forget, because we're in the middle of summer, part of the benefit to doing this is if we need to cover this in the winter, it's really easy to throw a frost cloth just over the top wire and then basically have a simple A-Frame cover, and then you're good to go.
Farmer Fred
Yeah, exactly. That's another consideration to protect it from the frost is how easy is it to throw that frost cloth overhand in a two dimensional setup like this. It's easy, very easy. Speaking of easy, what are some of the easiest examples of fruit trees or nut trees that take to a trellis like this?
Quentyn Young
So we have the citrus. I think citrus are really easy to do. If you go on the other side of the orchard, we have an espaliered Pomegranate, and that's incredibly easy, also really beautiful when it's in bloom, and when it has fruit on it. Next to it, we have a plum, it's a Beauty plum. And that's in a more sort of traditional French technique, a little bit more complicated called an arcure, but the plums do very well in this volume because they're so vigorous. And then next to that is a pear and also in its more traditional formal style called a merchant flag. So you can theoretically espalier or anything, it just really depends on how much work you want to do. Probably the most difficult ones would be a peach and a cherry. We have those further up the hill, but they're referred to more as a fan because they're not as static as most espaliers. They require quite a bit more pruning and replacing old branches with new branches.
Farmer Fred
Are the trellis systems on those basically the same as this? Basically a couple of four by fours, with running wires in between.
Quentin Young
Yeah, pretty much the same structure. All right, and it takes fairly easy.
Farmer Fred
What about figs?
Quentyn Young
Figs do really well espaliered. Yeah. Okay. And but again, you do have to train it and to make sure that the branches are growing close to the wires. and you want that again, you want that flat sort of two dimensional shape, right?
Farmer Fred
And you can control the height, you can control the width and as long as they get enough sun and you've got a watering system to it, you're good to go.
Quentyn Young
Yeah, once you start doing it, they're actually quite easy to maintain.
Farmer Fred
So if you've got that narrow garden area and you want some fruit trees, think about trellising them. We'll have links in today's show notes that'll show you how to do it with a lot more information. Quentyn Young is a Sacramento County Master Gardener, he's also the manager of Fair Oaks Boulevard Nursery. If you're in the Sacramento or Northern California area, don't forget Harvest Day, which is the first Saturday in August. Come on out here to Fair Oaks Park in Sacramento County, to the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center. And you can see this beautiful, beautiful garden that is designed to mimic what you're doing in your own yard and give you some great ideas of what you can do, be it vegetables, fruits, flowers, herbs, vineyards, trees, drought tolerant plants, whatever you're looking for. You're going to find it here and it's going to give you some great ideas. And also it's a great place to visit several times a year just to see what's in bloom because there's always something growing here.
Quentyn Young
Exactly. Yeah, if you can try to make it so most of the open garden days is sort of like a year long training course because you can see the trees as they develop how we prune them how we shape them, and sort of the end result
Farmer Fred
Fair Oaks Horticulture Center in Fair Oaks Park. We'll have a link about Harvest Day in today's show notes as well. Quentin Young. Thanks for giving us the lowdown on trellising fruit trees.
Quentin Young
Thanks for having me Fred.
Farmer Fred
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Farmer Fred
Here's a quick tip for you. Debbie Flower is here. America's favorite retired college horticultural Professor. Debbie, on previous shows you have implied about growing tobacco. I don't smell any nicotine on you. So I know you don't smoke. But you have said tobacco is fun to grow.
Debbie Flower
It is fun to grow. Surprisingly, my mother gave me tobacco seeds to start growing when I was, I don't know, in single digits, elementary school age. And she taught me and all my sisters, and we grew them, and they were a fascinating plant. They grew fast. They grew tall, like four to five feet tall. They have big leaves, that were my memories. They're fuzzy. They have hairs on them. And then they bloom. They're in the genus Nicotiana and we can grow, it’s called flowering tobacco, and that is one of its common names. They have the same sort of very long, tubular flowers that are visited by some pollinators, but a big panicle of them or structure of them at the top of this very tall plant. Kids like things that happen fast and are big and this fit that bill. They grew fast and they got big and it was a new experience. And then they flowered.
Farmer Fred
is it a tubular flower? Yes. So it's like Nicotiana and that we get this. Yes. Does it bloom at night?
Debbie Flower
My memory is it blooms during the day. All right. Maybe it has an aroma at night. Yeah, I don't remember that part. I know some of the Nicotiana has to Yeah. And that's how they attract some of their pollinators.
Farmer Fred
Right? Yeah. Like, like the tomato hornworm moth.
Debbie Flower
Or the tobacco hornworm. Yeah, there you go. That's probably what it attracts, Yes.
Farmer Fred
But what I find amazing in going online, are finding all the places that sell tobacco seeds to grow in the garden.
Debbie Flower
Yes, I grew some, I got some seed, and we grew them at school and sold them at our plant sale, and somebody got wind of it. And it started to become a very popular crop. And they were requesting specific cultivars of tobacco and some for cigars. And these people wanted to grow them and use them for tobacco. I know nothing about that, at the drying or processing of the leaves. But they're out there. And they're fun to grow.
Farmer Fred
Back when tobacco shops opened up, what was the deal with people wanting to grow tobacco, the taxes went up on it, who knows? The price went up on tobacco, something happened and certainly has happened. Yes. And all of a sudden, people wanted to grow their own tobacco. And this was 25 years ago or so. And so I started doing research about growing tobacco. It helps to live in Kentucky.
Debbie Flower
Yes, I imagine there's greater sources there.
Farmer Fred
Well, they're not only sources but also the weather there is more conducive to growing tobacco because the temperatures are more moderate. And the humidity is higher, too. Apparently, the tobacco plant flourishes in high humidity. That's not to say it can't grow here because you grew it here.
Debbie Flower
Yes, I've grown it to a small size here. I haven't grown to a mature size. When I grew it to a mature size, I lived in New Jersey.
Farmer Fred
Now, that's humid.
Debbie Flower
But you can increase humidity by trapping moisture
Farmer Fred
or growing it on a side of the house that's more humid
Debbie Flower
right and less exposed, better protected from the wind.
Farmer Fred
But it's just amazing. Just how many different varieties there are. I'm at the VictorySeeds.com website. They have more than seven pages of tobacco varieties that are out there, most of them heirloom varieties. And I think it's said there's like 100 seeds per packet. I Think that would be enough. How far apart do you space them?
Debbie Flower
They get pretty wide. I want to say two to three feet.
Farmer Fred
Okay, so you'd space them 18-24 inches apart, right? Probably. Yeah. And they look like the leaves come in different colors as well.
Debbie Flower
And I imagine the flowers might. The ones we had were just white. But I don't know for sure. If they come in. There must be that's got to be the source of there's some flour doesn't have to be the source. There's pink.
Farmer Fred
Yeah, there's pink and red. Yeah, and white. And, and white. Okay.
Debbie Flower
Now, I don't know, I assume the government would want to know if you were going to start your own tobacco production facility. I don't know what regulations are associated with that.
Farmer Fred
I think for the backyard grower, I doubt there's rules.
Debbie Flower
Limits. But if you wanted to start a heirloom business of business of growing heirloom tobacco for sale, obviously their regular business license you have to have and tax forms and that sort of thing. But I don't know if tobacco is like alcohol, let's say it has special laws associated with it.
Farmer Fred
I think it's the same people that control firearms.
Debbie Flower
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. Right.
Farmer Fred
But I think for the hobbyist gardener it just to grow it as a an interesting looking plant. There are no restrictions, right that there's no restrictions on that. And the seed. Yeah. And that's worth a shot. And like you mentioned, it grows quickly. Yes. So it's a new habit for the little kids in the house.
Debbie Flower
It was impressive. It was a fun plant to watch. All right.
Farmer Fred
And I imagine it has an aroma.
Debbie Flower
I don't remember one but I imagine it does.
Farmer Fred
Especially if you live in Kentucky, right, or another humid humid place.
Debbie Flower
That holds scents. Yeah, close.
Farmer Fred
You know what also, this is an aside, but then this is what this show is known for. Speaking of shows for the nose right now the Brugmansia is blooming in the yard, the Charles Grimaldi Brugmansia, and it's just got this wonderful aroma and it's like only in the early evening, but it’s just this perfume over the entire yard. Of course, the Brugmansia is a poisonous plant. Yes. And like so many beautiful plants, it's deadly. So admire it from afar.
Debbie Flower
And all poison is about quantity. Right? Right.
Farmer Fred
And also if you're worried about your pets ingesting it, it depends on the nature of the pet. Now obviously, some animals have to be kept away from most anything, like a goat maybe yeah, or the goat-like dog. Some dogs don't care and they don't eat it. So that's fine. Like my dogs. They don't bother that plant. But it is gorgeous right now.
Debbie Flower
Cool. Yeah, I saw a picture. It is gorgeous.
Farmer Fred
Yeah, it is. Tobacco. You can grow it. plant some for the kids.
Debbie Flower
Well, a friend of ours said every year you should grow something new and different. There's one idea.
Farmer Fred
Yeah, yeah. Tobacco. What would be another thing you could grow that would be different?
Debbie Flower
Well, I tried a different cultivar of cucumber, and got nowhere with it this year.
Farmer Fred
Okay, I guess that counts.
Debbie Flower
Yeah, it was a parthenogenic cucumber.
Farmer Fred
Oh, it doesn't need a mate.
Debbie Flower
Correct. It'll produce fruit all by itself.
Farmer Fred
Yeah. sad life. What did I plant this year, that's different ? Fred, Why don't you go to your garden diary, which you keep right here on your desk about everything you do in the garden? Like I say you keep an indoor diary of what you do in the garden, because the garden gnomes and possums will take away all the little signs you put out next to your plants.
Debbie Flower
I think the skunk was in my yard with babies digging things up.
Farmer Fred
You know what? Speaking of good guys in the garden. That skunk, in that sense, is a good guy. They're going after grubs, right. The Robins are going after the grubs here. Oh, well, yeah, thank you. I mean, I saw this Robin digging in the raised bed. Well, you're not planting an acorn. What the heck are you doing? And then all of a sudden, I saw this little C-shaped white grub in his mouth. So yeah, go for it. Yeah, it's fine and dandy. Okay, something different that we grew this year that I've never grown before. Chioggia beets. And it's an heirloom beet. You slice it halfway open, and it's got these concentric red rings.
Debbie Flower
Oh, I've seen pictures of those.
Farmer Fred
Yeah, and they're delicious too. Oh, good. The beets are edible. The greens are edible. And so we'll be planting beets every year now. First, I don't understand how I made it this far without ever growing beets.
Debbie Flower
I have grown them and I think I don't harvest soon enough I think they get woody and crack before I get them out of the ground. So this year I grew a new type of chard which iust stays small. Well, all chard will get big eventually. But it does not produce any sort of a beat root. Just a new chard for me anyway.
Farmer Fred
Okay, that's right. They they are in the same family. They are.
Debbie Flower
And we had the Greens last night and they weren't bitter. They were young. They weren't bitter.
Farmer Fred
By the way. For those of you in warmer climates, you might try growing chard just about any season of the year unless unless you're in Tucson and then you probably wouldn't have much luck in the summertime.
Debbie Flower
I’ll check the gardens when I go this time. The vegetable gardens in the public park you can go look at the chard.
Farmer Fred
They do fairly well without bolting in heat.
Debbie Flower
Yes, chard will last a year here in Central Valley of California. Planted in spring and it goes through the winter and you have it again the next year.
Farmer Fred
You can't really see it from here. But if you look out through the abutilon jungle out the window…
Debbie Flower
I see a bolted chard. Yes. There you go. That's what it is. Yeah, it is. It's like a six foot tall drive. Sure.
Debbie Flower
It's huge. Yes. your leaving it for the beneficials to come?
Farmer Fred
Yeah, exactly. And it's not my way yet.
Debbie Flower
There. We all have our priorities. Yeah.
Farmer Fred
All right. Where did that scenic bypass start? Grow tobacco! There you go. Debbie Flower. Thanks so much.
Debbie Flower
My pleasure. Thank you, Fred.
Farmer Fred
You want to start the backyard fruit and nut orchard of your dreams? But you don’t know where to begin? Or, maybe you’re currently growing fruit and nut trees, and you have a million questions… such as what are the tastiest fruits to grow, where can I go to buy some of these delectable fruits and nuts you’ve been reading about…and, how do I care for all these fruit and nut trees, including planting, pruning and harvesting?
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Farmer Fred
And now, something very pertinent to those of us living in the western United States, especially those of us who, everyday, get on the computer and check the wildfire maps. More and more of us throughout the West are having to deal with smoke. And here in the Central Valley of California, it's become an annual event: another unwanted season of falling ash and wildfire smoke. It seems to last throughout the end of summer and the beginning of fall. And yes, we gardeners do suffer from that smoke inhalation. But you know something? Your flowers and vegetables suffer, as well, on smoky days. Surprisingly, there's some benefit to your plants from all that smoke. But first, let's talk about the bad news. Out at the UC Berkeley Botanical Garden, the garden director there, Dr. Lew Feldman, has pointed out in a recent article that the combination of the toxic chemicals in the smoke is suffocating your plants. He says that chemically, more than 100 different compounds have been identified in smoke, including toxic levels of nitrous oxide, sulfur dioxide and ozone. He wrote about that in the Botanical Gardens monthly newsletter. He goes on to say that short term exposure to smoke, as little as 20 minutes, has been reported to reduce photosynthesis by as much as 50%. Feldman points out that the effect is usually accompanied by a lessening in plant growth. And that includes a reduction in fruit production and slower ripening. And, as any California winemaker can tell you, that prolonged exposure of fruits and vegetables to smoke can affect the taste. When falling ash accompanies that smoke, Feldman says that stresses the plant even more. He says when ash lodges in the pores of the plant leaves, not only is the intake of carbon dioxide retarded, but the pores can no longer function efficiently in preventing water loss from the plant. But even Feldman has a silver lining to that cloud of smoke. Ash, he says, is organic matter composed of many of the essential nutrients that plants require, including calcium, magnesium, and potassium. So if the ash accumulation is not so great as to bury the plant, the ash could be thought of as acting like fertilizer. And, there's another, if contradictory, benefit to smoky skies for your plants. This according to the Journal of Geophysical Research: Biogeosciences. Researchers in the January 2020 report indicate that wildfire smoke could increase plant productivity. How's that? Well, they studied the ecological effect of wildfire smoke here in the Central Valley of California during the summer of 2018, which was a very smoky summer, indeed. They found that the increase in production was due to the smoke scattering incoming sunlight. And that allowed the sun's energy to reach further into dense plant canopies, that increased the efficiency by which these plant canopies were photosynthesizing, leading to productivity increases. However, those researchers noted, there are some trade-offs when dealing with total light and other pollutants. And it's those other trade offs that should concern gardeners. So if you're diligent about washing off smoke and ash particles from all surfaces of the leaves on a regular basis during wildfire events, your plants will be able to respond normally, reducing possible water stress, and maybe even put on a new spurt of growth
Farmer Fred
Do you store your chicken eggs in the refrigerator or on the kitchen counter? Which is better? How can you tell when an egg is going bad? Should you wash chicken eggs? And what should the temperature of the water be for that wash? How do you get your backyard chicken flock to lay more eggs in the winter? In Friday’s “Beyond the Garden Basics” newsletter, we chat with urban chicken consultant and Certified Poultry Health Inspector Cherie Sintes-Glover. She has the answers to these questions. It’s a deeper dive into the world of chickens and eggs.
It’s in the newsletter that goes beyond the basics, the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred, Beyond the Basics newsletter, out Friday, June 24th. Find it via the link in today’s show notes, or visit our new website, Garden Basics dot net. There, you can find a link to the newsletter in the tabs on the top of the page. Also, you can listen to any of our previous editions of the podcast, as well as read an enhanced transcript of the podcast episode you are now listening to. That’s at Garden Basics dot net, where you can also link to the Garden Basics newsletter, Beyond the Basics. And it’s free. Look for it on Friday, June 24th. Take a deeper dive into gardening, with the Beyond the Garden Basics newsletter. Find it at garden basics dot net.
Farmer Fred
Garden Basics With Farmer Fred comes out every Tuesday and Friday and is brought to you by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. Garden Basics is available wherever podcasts are handed out. For more information about the podcast, visit our website, GardenBasics dot net. That’s where you can find out about the free, Garden Basics newsletter, Beyond the Basics. And thank you so much for listening.
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