017 All About Apples. Compost Do's and Dont's.

What's the easiest fruit tree variety to grow? Apples! We talk with Phil Pursel of Dave Wilson Nursery about the wide variety of apple trees available for the home gardener, as well as tips for growing a 6 or 7 foot tall apple tree (and yes, you will still get plenty of fruit!).

This episode is brought to you by Smart Pots. Visit smartpots.com/fred for a money-saving offer on the original, award-winning fabric planter, made in the USA.

Phil Pursel of Dave Wilson Nursery tells us about the top-selling apple trees: Fuji, Gala, Pink Lady, Granny Smith, Red Delicious and Golden Delicious.
And, if you're not sure which apple variety to choose, check out 20 years worth of taste test results at the Dave Wilson Nursery website.
Learn more about choosing, planting, pruning and caring for your apple trees at the Dave Wilson Nursery Fruit Tube Video page.

Prof. Debbie Flower explains why starting a fruit pit, such as an avocado pit, in a glass of water, will produce roots...they are not the same high quality as the roots that you would get if you had started that pit in a soil mix.

We answer the question: "Can poisonous plants be added to a compost pile?" Soils expert Steve Zien talks about what you can add to a compost pile...and what you should avoid adding. More info here.

And, a University of Texas study comparing the nutritional value of supermarket vegetables from 1950 (good nutrition) and 1999 (not so good). It's another reason why you want to grow it yourself!

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( https://www.buzzsprout.com/1004629 ).

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Transcript

Farmer Fred : 0:00

Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by smart pots the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. It's made in the USA visit smart pots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount that smart pots.com slash Fred. Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information well you've come to the right spot.

Farmer Fred : 0:33

What do you think is the most popular backyard fruit tree in America? Hey, you're right. It's the apple and backyard fruit tree growers know that there's a wide variety of apples that are downright juicy and delicious. unlike anything you've ever tasted from a grocery store. What are the most popular backyard apple trees? What are the tastiest? What are the easiest ways to grow apples? We're going to find out today when we talk to fruit tree expert Phil Pursel. Maybe you've already listened to Episode Seven that was feed your soils, not your plants. Maybe you have a good idea about the benefits of adding compost to your garden soil, and maybe that inspired you to start a compost pile. Well today we're going to tell you which kitchen scraps and yard waste can go into that pile and which products you should avoid. We'll have that and a lot more on this episode 17 of Garden Basics with Farmer Fred brought to you by smart pots. And we're gonna save you some time too. you're gonna get your ears back in under 30 minutes. Let's go.

Farmer Fred : 1:34

Let's talk about apples. It is the most widely adapted deciduous fruit that deciduous fruit tree is one that loses its leaves in the wintertime. Apples grow all the way from Central Florida in the southeast as far north to the northeast into Canada and in every Western climate. There are big commercial orchards in places like New York, Michigan and Washington and even here in California as well. And you might be surprised where They grow and commercially, we're talking with Phil Pursel of Dave Wilson nursery. They're a wholesale grower based here in California, but they sell fruit trees throughout the western United States. And Phil, you were just telling me before we started here that there's a commercial grower of apples in Hawaii.

Phil Pursel : 2:17

There is. over there on the Big Island. They've been growing, you know, low chill or California, low chill apples and having success with them. And I was I was pretty amazed the last place you would think it's a tropical island like Hawaii, grow apples, but apples are super adaptable, and they do have pretty good success with a couple of varieties Anna and Dorsett Gold.

Farmer Fred : 2:41

We should mention what exactly we mean by low chill when you grow fruit trees, deciduous fruit trees. The idea of chill hours is very important during winter dormancy, chill hours, basically anything between 32 and 45 degrees and that helps the trees set a crop For the following year, low chill for apples would be, what 100 200 300 400 hours, mid ranges is what 500 600 700. And most of those fruit trees that grow commercially back east I would think would require 800 to 1000 chill hours between November and February.

Debbie Flower : 3:19

right. And mostly, you know, back East chill generally is not an issue. But as as you get into more of the temperate climates out here in California, it is. You know, the the past thought has always been, you know that we don't get quite as much chill that has success with apples but you know, we're doing more and more studies with the UC system out here. It's starting to become a little eye opening.

Farmer Fred : 3:42

What are the biggest selling varieties that you have there a Dave Wilson nursery?

Debbie Flower : 3:46

pretty easy Fuji, Fuji and Fuji. Okay. Yeah, then it's followed by it's kind of like your what people are used to right so it's Fuji, gala, Pink Lady, Honeycrisp, Granny Smith, Golden Delicious, Red Delicious, there's probably 10 that make up about 80% of all the apples that I sell

Farmer Fred : 4:09

and do apples need a different variety nearby for pollination reasons or are many apples self- fruitful.

Debbie Flower : 4:16

So many apples are self fruitful. You always get with apples you always get a bigger crop if you can have another variety to help cross pollinizing, but certain apples you know like Fuji Apple, if you plant one in your backyard, you're gonna get plenty of fruit for you know your family and your friends. It's you know, if you really want a high yield, then we always suggest putting in a pollenizer another variety of apple that blooms about the same time in the yard.

Farmer Fred : 4:46

On this program. We've talked a lot about backyard orchard culture as far as maintaining the height the fruit trees at six or seven feet so you never have to get on a ladder all the fruit is within easy reach. If you keep your apple tree At six or seven feet will you still have plenty of fruit,

Debbie Flower : 5:02

you'll have plenty of fruit. In fact, the trees in my backyard are my tallest apple tree is about six, six feet. And it's a nice Apple bush. And it's really easy to pick those apples and maintain the tree that way and I get so many apples. It's unbelievable.

Farmer Fred : 5:19

I would think that anybody wandering into a nursery just about any place in the United States right now or throughout the summer would probably still find apple trees available. Is it okay to plant apple trees in the summertime.

Debbie Flower : 5:31

Sure, you can plant you know, fruit trees throughout the whole time or throughout the whole season. It's just in summertime, you got to just be a little bit more cognizant of the heat, the water requirement and not letting the tree dry out before it gets established. So right now is a fine time to plant.

Farmer Fred : 5:48

and when we're talking about planting it correctly in the summertime that would include I would imagine after you plant it, is to maybe cover it with about four inches of mulch just to help preserve that soil moisture.

Debbie Flower : 5:59

Absolutely. You know, it's if you're in an area that has exposed a lot of hot exposure, you know, sun hitting the soil, the best way to keep that moisture in there is to put a nice thick layer of mulch in there. That really helps young trees get established so that they can get a nice root system going.

Farmer Fred : 6:20

You mentioned earlier that some of the bigger selling varieties, especially here in California are Fuji gala, Golden Delicious and Pink Lady. Are the tastes of all Americans the same or Are there areas of the country where they want certain varieties,

Debbie Flower : 6:34

you know, it seems like when you go back nice, they're a little bit more used to different varieties and a little bit more of the heirloom varieties. A lot of these apples originated out of the East Coast. So kind of, they do plant the Fujis and the galas but you know, they're more into more of the European varieties, you know, something like a Belle de Boskoop, a Calville Blanc, a Roxbury Russet. Those are varieties that are just being introduced here in California, but those are just old standbys that you would find in someone's backyard in, you know, Maryland or that area. That's something that's been grown there for centuries.

Farmer Fred : 7:17

If you have a real sweet tooth, I recommend the Calville Blanc that is a classic French dessert apple and it is just so sweet. But it's also good for cooking and for cider.

Debbie Flower : 7:27

Yeah, exactly. That's the one thing that is really unique about apples is that they have a very long shelf life. So there's lots of different uses that you can do with an apple. Even fresh off the tree is so much better than you know getting them store bought because let's face it, the store bought apples are picked early, but then you can cook with apples you can bake with apples, and something that I've gotten into the last year is making my own ciders and just using different varieties of apples to kind of You know, tweak the tastes of it, but that's there's so many different varieties of apples out there. There's something for everyone.

Farmer Fred : 8:06

Yeah, I think among the favorites that I've grown over the years, Calville Blanc is up there because I have a sweet tooth and the other is a large green apple called Mutsu. It's it's large, it's crisp, it's flavorful. And it has a kind of a late harvest usually here it's late September, early October.

Debbie Flower : 8:26

Yeah. The nice thing about the mood zoo is that it is good for ciders. It's a late harvest. But this is just it's a hardy, Apple variety. You know, to plant out there.

Farmer Fred : 8:38

at Dave Wilson Nursery, you've done taste tests over the years what something like 20 years or so of taste test, the apple varieties and I've been to your Apple tastings. And if you can imagine sitting for a day in a room and tasting like 30 different apples and judging them on seven different criteria points. You realize there's actually a lot of variation in the flavor, the taste the aroma and the look of apples. And I noticed that in the overall scores of these fruit taste tests over the years, the the top winners are red Fuji Spitzenberg, Pink Lady and honey crisp. honey crisp, I guess would be kind of a newcomer to that list.

Phil Pursel : 9:19

It is it is now here's here's something that's kind of interesting that I didn't know before I started working for Dave Wilson Nursery, but I would say that one of my favorite apples and I think one of the most unique apples out there is the Granny Smith and you're thinking Granny Smith, they're so tart. You think of that as a pie apple in our harvest chart, we'd say that you know the granny smith really should be pick, you know, November or such and that's when you kind of see the granny smith start showing up in the grocery stores right the fresh the new season Granny Smiths come in and it's about that time Well, Granny SMith should actually be almost like a Golden Delicious when it's picked. So when we're picking our Granny Smith off our mother trees at the nursery, we're picking them at the end of December. Oh, in the flavor that you get off that Granny Smith is unbelievable. The tartness is taken out. But you get that great Granny Smith flavor, and you get that great crunch, getting, you know, and it takes all the tartness off. And at that point, I realized that for all these years, I've been eating unripe granny smith apples in the grocery store, because Granny Smith should look almost like a Golden Delicious when it's picked off the tree, the light greenish yellow color.

Farmer Fred : 10:43

That's one great thing about apples is they're okay to remain on the tree, aren't they?

Debbie Flower : 10:48

They are and that's Yeah, you're right. They hang on the tree for so long. I'm like, I love the stone fruit. They're gonna hang on the tree right for about you know, two weeks and they drop. But an apple can hang on it for months.

Farmer Fred : 11:01

what's nice too is if you practice backyard orchard culture and keep your fruit trees at six or seven feet tall, you can have a lot more varieties in your yard, as long as you've got the sun for it, of course, because apples ripen as early as June and as you said, as late as December and there was probably about 30 or so different varieties in that timeframe over those six months that you could be eating fresh apples off the tree.

Debbie Flower : 11:31

Exactly, exactly. And that's the way in my backyard because like I said, I'm doing ciders. I do have some really early varieties like Honeycrisp is one of them. I end up with with a granny smith so that I can do cider making throughout the you know, summer season and kind of prolong it into kind of the classic everyone thinks about Apple season as the fall. Well, sure it is. It is the fall, but great apples are in available in the middle of the summer, too.

Farmer Fred : 12:00

exactly and there's so much tastier when you're picking them off the tree like you said rather than dealing with them in the grocery store and besides in the backyard, you don't have to try to open one of those plastic bags that never open.

Phil Pursel : 12:14

Exactly Yeah. Think about doing your apples by yourself you know at home is you're able to control absolutely anything that goes on that tree. If you want to grow an apple organically, you know exactly what's been been put on that tree. So you know, that's the one thing that I love about growing fruit in my backyard, is I'm able to really know what's been put on a tree at what time to you know, get the best tasting fruit and thehealthiest fruit.

Farmer Fred : 12:43

Exactly. You you can avoid a lot of pesticide use in the backyard and not only that, when you're picking an apple or any piece of fruit off a tree and eating it, you're getting much more nutrition than you are if that if you went to the grocery store and ate one that's been sitting in storage for who knows how long Sure.

Debbie Flower : 13:00

Sure, so I mean for the beginner growing fruit, you know, a fruit tree. Apples are, I'm not gonna say failsafe, however, they're a great beginning fruit tree to go out there and work with because, you know, they do produce, you know, a relatively large crop. As they start to mature, you can enjoy it throughout the whole season, without having to worry about I gotta go out and pick it right away before the birds get to it, you know, because you're going to get this long hang time with apples.

Farmer Fred : 13:31

Well, not only that, but by keeping them at six to seven feet tall. They're easily covered with bird netting to

Debbie Flower : 13:37

Right. exactly.

Farmer Fred : 13:38

lots of good reasons to grow apples. If you want more information about apples and varieties that you may recognize as growing in your own neighborhood, check out the Dave Wilson nursery catalog. They're a wholesale grower of fruit nut and ornamental trees based here in California but sell throughout the country. Dave wilson.com is their website and you can go to their home garden catalog. Find out information about all the varieties, as well as the taste test results too, which is not a bad criteria to use. If you're picking out trees for your own backyard and you don't know much about them, well go with what panels? And these are the judgments of several hundred people, isn't it?

Debbie Flower : 14:18

Yeah, we we bring you know, we're doing a taste test, we bring in panels and so everyone has their own taste preferences. But when we tally up the results, those are the varieties that were you know, came out as at that time as the best tasting and it's like you say it's a great place to start. I mean, we do over 60 different varieties for the home garden market. And it can be overwhelming. So you know, you go to find out what our taste test winners are. And then you figure out when do you want that Apple to harvest and then from there, you can go ahead and really branch out in your apple orchard.

Farmer Fred : 14:56

And if you're not listening to us in California, if you listening to us back east or down south or Way up north, have a chat with your local independent nursery person about the best varieties for your area and the timing of it as well.

Debbie Flower : 15:10

We service all the independent garden centers, and we make sure that the varieties that we put in the independent garden centers are really right for each geographic area.

Farmer Fred : 15:20

I just found a page in the Dave Wilson.com catalog for cold country favorites for apples for the northwestern Fruit Grower and they talk about Ashmead's Kernel which is also one of my favorites. Fuji honeycrisp and Mutsu.

Debbie Flower : 15:36

Right so those are kind of like the go to it you know up in the Pacific Northwest Northwest. You know down in Southern California. It's more Anna, Fuji, Dorsett golden, same was kind of like in the Florida Panhandle. They really like the Lower chill the gala apples. Like I say we as we were doing you know studies at the south coast field station in Irvine, California, and it's it's becoming eye opening that more and more of these varieties that we thought maybe should only be done in cold weather areas are you know, adaptable to what we would consider you know, a low to Southern California very temperate climate so yeah that's kind of exciting that when people thought they only had the ability to plant a couple of apples well now you know as we keep on doing some more research I think that this opens up the the apple cart for you know, people in areas that are just you know, in a more temperate climate.

Farmer Fred : 16:39

Yeah, exactly. wherever you are. Experiment with apples. You just might be surprised. You know, we should point out to that at Dave Wilson dot com, there's all those fruit Tube videos that will explain to you in great detail how to plant the tree how to care for the tree, what to do with problems develop how to prune the tree. All sorts of great information there at the Dave Wilson dot com website on getting that tree from a baby all the way to a thriving adult.

Debbie Flower : 17:08

Yeah, we put, you know, we put together these videos just to show that growing a fruit tree in your backyard is not as difficult and not as time consuming as as you think just as long as there's a few tips that we get along the way to make sure that tree gets off to a good start. I mean, if you keep that tree, knowing that you're going to keep a branch low at the very beginning, don't want to get that tree too tall, you know, you're gonna be able to manage that tree throughout its whole life. But it's important if you're going to practice a backyard orchard culture to start with a young tree and kind of do what the farmers do out here in California. You know, we call it the knee high cut, but they cut trees low so the branch stays low. The reason they do that it's just easier to harvest. There's no need to have a big lollipop tree where the canopy starts at five feet. Well, that tree is gonna get too too large of a tree so soon that the only people you know, just the birds and the squirrels will be getting that fruit. So start with a nice young tree, keep it prune Low, low branching, and then you know, you'll, you'll have find so much fruit on a six foot tree. It's unbelievable.

Farmer Fred : 18:20

Well, I guess we're gonna have to have you back in the near future Phil to talk about. Okay, what about for all these people who inherited a full size fruit tree in their backyard? Can they bring those down to size? And yeah, we can fill a show with that.

Debbie Flower : 18:33

Yeah, that's, that's one of the biggest questions I get. And you know, hope is not is not out of the question on something like that.

Farmer Fred : 18:41

Exactly. And plus, there's videos of the process up there at Dave wilson.com as well, Phil Pursel, obviously with Dave Wilson nursery. Phil, thanks for talking apples with us today.

Debbie Flower : 18:50

Yeah, thanks for having me on.

Farmer Fred : 18:56

How many of you have ever taken a fruit pit, stuck a couple toothpicks in it and suspended it over a glass of water with about half the pit sitting in the water. Pretty soon roots develop. Well now you might be tempted to take that pit with the roots and stick it in the ground. That may not work. Debbie Flower our in house college horticulture Professor explains why and she explained this back in Episode Five as far as starting cuttings of rosemary in water versus soil.

Debbie Flower : 19:26

When you do some research if you do some research on the internet about propagating Rosemary many people suggest sticking the cuttings in water and you'll find pictures of cuttings with in water in a clear glass and roots coming out the bottom. And it's very true that that will work but the quality of root that is produced in water is very different from the quality of root that is produced in a media and a media being a soil or soilless mix. And the reason for that is the difference in the amount of oxygen in the two Materials. water has oxygen when it first comes out of the tap, but as it sits there, the oxygen leaves and so it becomes very low in oxygen and you get a low oxygen root. But if you stick the cutting in the mix I suggested half perlite, half vermiculite, or in a seed starting mix. There's much more oxygen in that media and you'll get a different root. And if your plan is to ultimately grow the plant to the rosemary on in, in a pot of soil, then you want to start your cutting in soil, not in water.

Farmer Fred : 20:37

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Farmer Fred : 21:47

let's delve into the garden basics email bag Jan from Herald California writes in and wants to know if foxglove sweet peas and other such plants that are considered poisonous can be put into the compost pile. Well Jan as long as the compost pile gets hot enough around 140 to 160 degrees. Those poisonous plants should not be a problem as long as they're allowed to age in the compost pile, but to help us out here on this q&a. Let's bring in our soils experts Steve Zien of living resources company. He's been a soils expert for over 45 years. And Steve, there's a lot you can put into a compost pile isn't there?

Steve Zien : 22:27

Yes. Any kind of organic matter can be kitchen and plant waste, fresh grass clippings, vegetative material, and manures from non carnivorous animals they non meat eating animals, fish emulsion, coffee grounds, alfalfa, cottonseed meal, blood meal, soybean meal, fallen leaves in the fall straw, wood chips, shredded newspaper, sawdust, dried vegetation, pine needles, and the list goes out.

Farmer Fred : 22:57

Okay, how about a list of what you shouldn't add to a compost pile?

Steve Zien : 23:02

things you want to avoid anything that's dairy, bones, meat, fish, synthetic fertilizers, because they they're high in salt and they will kill the microscopic organisms for some reason and I don't really know why but they don't like peanut butter they don't suggest you put peanut butter or salad dressing but salad dressing only gets to the oils and you don't want any oils or fats or lime. Any plant waste containing pesticides, wood ash, lot of people are thinking they want to add wood ash, and it really messes up the pH of the compost, pet waste, grease and fats, weeds, weed seeds, horse manure, human waste.

Farmer Fred : 23:44

You don't add horse manure Why?

Steve Zien : 23:46

I don't like if it's aged horse manure maybe, but I don't like the raw stuff. Unless you know the sort of how your horse's health was maintained because a lot of Horses get various antibiotics and medication to keep them healthy. And that stuff comes out in the manure and it. It's designed to kill microscopic organisms, and it will continue to do so. If you add that material into the compost pile,

Farmer Fred : 24:19

when people go to the show notes, they will find some links that will enumerate on what to add and what not to add in the compost pile. So you don't have to be jotting this down while driving.

Steve Zien : 24:31

That'll that'll be helpful.

Farmer Fred : 24:32

Yes.

Farmer Fred : 24:32

don't forget you can get your garden question into the garden basics podcast, give us a call. 916-292-8964 You can also text that number to leave a picture and a question 916-292-8964 also email Fred at farmer fred.com. That's Fred at farmer Fred dot com. And you can also leave a message and maybe with a picture as well at the get growing with farmer fred Facebook page or on Twitter, @FarmerFred. Don't forget to tell us where you live because all gardening is local.

Farmer Fred : 25:14

So there was a shopping list on the counter. I was going into town so why not pick up the groceries? Well, truth be told, I really do enjoy grocery shopping at a supermarket. I love to marvel at the amazing variety and selections of fruits and vegetables that are available most of the year. It's really quite a sight. Well on the list was strawberries. Being a dutiful husband, I picked up a carton of strawberries at the supermarket. Big Red strawberries all snuggled together in their little plastic box. Well at dinner that night, the strawberries appeared in the salad. But there was a word of warning from my wife who says, "you know those strawberries, they're tasteless." and I had to agree. They were as hard as rocks as well. With no juice, I should have known better because it's strawberry season here. But still, supermarket chains are dealing with commercial growers who can supply an entire chain of stores of product that who knows when it was picked or how long it's been in storage. Those strawberries were raised to grow quickly and look good... not necessarily taste very good. And I was kicking myself I should have gone to one of the many roadside stands in our area that are selling strawberries right now or even a farmers market on the weekend or heaven forfend, farmer Fred. Maybe you could grow them yourself. Well, you know I do grow a lot of different fruits and vegetables, but not when products like strawberries are just so convenient and so available. I just shouldn't get them at the supermarket that's all. and guess what? Those supermarket fruits and vegetables those other ones. They may look pretty, but they're not nearly as nutritious as the ones you grow yourself. An old academic study has received new life among heirloom vegetable gardeners making the rounds as a research paper conducted back in 1999 and released in 2004. At the University of Texas, the conclusion of that research: supermarket vegetables available in 1950 were healthier than the ones purchased in 1999. The vegetables nutrient value, including protein, calcium, iron and riboflavin, has declined in recent decades, while farmers have been planting crops designed to improve other traits. That's according to the study. The study was conducted by Dr. Donald Davis of the University of Texas Austin's biochemical Institute. He concluded that the most likely explanation was the changes in cultivated varieties used today compared to 50 years ago. During those 50 years, there have been intensive efforts to breed new varieties that have greater yield or resistance to pests or adaptability to different climates. or, for the farmers. know to be first to the market with that product, but the dominant effort is for higher yields. emerging evidence suggests that when you select for yield, crops do grow bigger and they do grow faster, but they don't necessarily have the ability to make or uptake nutrients at that same faster rate. So the supermarket vegetables that were available back in 1950, well, now they would be considered heirloom varieties, but you don't have to go with all heirloom varieties. Many of the fruit and vegetable hybrid varieties that are available for homeowners now are not only great tasting, but have disease resistance built in and yet have a lot more nutritional value than the varieties available at the grocery store. Remember, as Dr. Davis said, Those commercial varieties are primarily altered in order to produce way too much than it normally could. Thus not being able to uptake nutrients at that increased production level. And trust me, homegrown varieties of fruits and vegetables produce plenty for you and your family, just ask anyone growing zucchini about that. So if you want inexpensive pretty vegetables or fruit for display purposes, well then go get them at the supermarket. But if you want the absolutely best tasting, most nutritious fruits and vegetables, grow them yourself, or at least get them at a farmers market. And I'll tell you something, one bite of those from the farmers market just might inspire you to plant one or two in your yard tomorrow.

Farmer Fred : 29:31

Thanks for listening to Garden Basics with Farmer Fred brought to you by smart pots garden basics comes out every Tuesday and Friday. It's available on many podcast platforms including Apple, Spotify, Google, iheart, Stitcher and many more. And if you're listening on Apple, please leave a comment or a rating. that helps us decide which garden topics you'd like to see addressed. And again, thank you