035 Flavorful Roses

We pick up where we left off with the last episode, with a taste test of one more edible flower that you just might have growing in your yard: roses. Both the rose petals and the rose hips from the rose plant are edible. We talk with Master Rosarian Debbie Arrington who says, some rose petals and rose hips taste better than others. Which taste the best? Stick around.

When it comes to applying pesticides, read and follow all label directions. That’s the takeaway message from Gisele Schoniger, the organic educator for Kellogg Garden Products. But, she explains, maybe you don’t need to apply any pesticides to control those problematic insects and diseases in your garden. We will tell you about less toxic alternatives that work as well as what to look for in a safer pesticide product.

When you first handled your tomato plants at the beginning of the season, did you rub your finger along the stem and pick up the scent of those tiny hairs? Don’t deny it. You did. We all enjoy that first whiff of the scent of a tomato, a promise of things to come. You might recall back in Episode 3 we learned the benefits of planting tomatoes deeply. Many gardeners think those fine hairs become roots when you bury much of the stem of that young tomato plant in the ground. Our favorite college horticulture professor (retired), Debbie Flower, says no, they don’t become roots. Where do the new tomato roots come from? Then what’s the purpose of those tiny tomato hairs along the stem…other than to give you a show for your nose every spring? You might be surprised to learn of their true purpose. I was. 

We learn something new, every time, on Garden Basics with Farmer Fred. And we will do it again today in Episode 35, and we will do it in under 30 minutes!

Links:
More about rose hips.
Sacramento Dig Gardening Blog by Debbie Arrington.
Growing Edible Flowers in Your Garden (GN 155) Sacramento Co. Coopertive Extension
Colorado State University Extension “Edible Flowers”
"The Edible Flower Garden", by Rosalind Creasy.
More about those tomato roots along the stem, tomato stem primordia
Organocide, Bee-Safe 3-in-1 Spray.
More on Kellogg Garden Products.

More episodes and info including live links, product information, transcripts, and chapters available at the home site for Garden Basics with Farmer Fred  https://www.buzzsprout.com/1004629.

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Transcript

Farmer Fred : 0:03

Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information well you've come to the right spot.

Farmer Fred : 0:15

We pick up where we left off with the last episode with a taste test of one more edible flower that you just might have growing in your yard. It's roses, both the rose petals and the rose hips from that rose plant are edible. We talk with Master rosarian Debbie Arrington, who says some rose petals and rose hips tastes better than others. Well, which tastes the best stick around you'll find out when it comes to applying pesticides, read and follow all label directions. That's the takeaway message from manager, the organic educator for Kellogg garden products. But she explains maybe you don't need to apply any pesticides to control those problematic insects and diseases in your garden will tell you about less time alternatives that work as well as what to look for in a safer pesticide product. When you first handled your tomato plants at the beginning of the season, did you rub your finger along the stem and pick up the scent of those tiny hairs? Oh, don't you deny it? You did it, you did it. We all enjoy that first whiff of the scent of a tomato, a promise of things to come. Now you might recall back in Episode Three, we learned the benefits of planting tomatoes deeply. And many gardeners think that those fine hairs along the stem become roots when you bury much of the stem of that young tomato plant in the ground. Well, our favorite college horticultural Professor retired Debbie Flower says no, they don't become roots. Well, then where do those new tomato roots come from? And what's the purpose of those tiny tomato hairs along the stem other than to give you a show for your nose every spring? Well, you might be surprised to learn of those hairs true purpose I was. We learn something new every time on guard Garden Basics with Farmer Fred. And we'll do it again today here in Episode 35. And we'll do it in under 30 minutes. Let's go.

Farmer Fred : 2:11

You may recall recently we talked about edible flowers here on the garden basics podcast. And we were talking about all sorts of edibles that you may not be aware of that you can munch on. Things like daylily flowers or even squash flowers. A lot of your herb flowers, the basil, rosemary, all those flowers are just so tasty along with citrus flowers. And then the subject of roses came up and our guests that we were talking to about edible flowers, Gail Pothour expressed an interest in trying roses but had never tried it. And so I contacted a few of my rosarian friends to see if well what is a rose petal tastes like and we're talking about petals here. And Debbie Arrington replied and said, Well, of course, I did. Debbie, you actually have conducted a taste test of various rose petals?

Debbie Arrington : 3:07

Yes, I did. And well, I should note that besides other things, I'm president of the Sacramento Rose society. And so I am surrounded by a lot of rose experts. And we're always looking for new things to do with roses. But my rose taste test came many years ago back when I was a food editor, and I wrote a story about edible flowers. And so then we did a little taste test of, well what do flowers tastes like and which ones are good and which ones are not and roses are probably one of the most easiest edible flowers that are around you. Now the thing about roses is you want to make sure that they're not sprayed. because you know you don't want it you don't want to eat anything that you've been using insecticides or or pesticides on anything like that. But when you think about it, Roses are, they're from the same family as, as a lot of fruits. That's why you have rose hips on rose bushes that you know after the roses are developed and mature, you know, that has rose hip jelly and Rose, hip tea and all sorts of different things with that, but the flowers also are very tasty. And what we found was that the flowers that had the best fragrance, the strongest scent tended to have the most taste in the petals. Awesome.

Farmer Fred : 4:30

Is that a good thing though, is it It was amazing flavor.

Debbie Arrington : 4:33

It was a pleasing flavor. It was like slightly sweet cloves. They both have a lot of vitamin C in them. So they have kind of that. Oh, that citrusy note that you get from any of your citrus family where you have that kind of kind of zesty taste on the back of your tongue. You think to yourself like oh, this is vitamin C you know that? You know is that it's probably said it, but but the main flavor that you're getting out of it. Most roses is sort of like cloves. It's a little spiciness that you've that you've sent on the back of your tongue. What we found also was that roses, the old style roses, old garden roses, that have a ton of fragrance. They have a lot of flavor awesome. And I also found that the Austin roses, which are big shrub roses and and also very, very fragrant. They not only have that slightly sweet spicy, clove to them, but if down in the little petals that are towards the center of the, the flower, they pick up a little bit of the nectar too. And so they're actually sweet, sweet, like, like honey sweet. what's interesting with the the ones that we found that had the most flavor, tended to be the red colored roses and the red on them. I think part of that is that those roses tend to have a lot of fragrance also, like you're Mr. Lincoln's you know, other you know, red roses that that have that definite Oh fragrance to them, but the ones that were just like light colored White Rose, they tended not to have much taste to them at all they they kind of like crunchy lettuce.

Farmer Fred : 6:15

So how are they best served?

Debbie Arrington : 6:17

in salad fresh. It's that well, they're, they're better when they're younger, you know. So if the rose has been if it's already bloomed and on its last legs and beginning to brown and stuff like that, it's over the top and it and it tastes sort of like wilted lettuce. But if the rose is fresh, it has that crispness. And it has that kind of slightly spicy taste. It's sort of, it's sort of like a mild arugala. It's sort of like in that thing where there's, there's like a little spice and bitterness, but not too bitter. It's more it's kind of like a sharpness to it, then then bitter and so solid, it's definitely a solid ingredient, and they also can be used in tea, you know, you can just go ahead and Is that the pedals in and you know put put them in some water and then steep.

Farmer Fred : 7:06

Is there any advantage to a single pedal rose versus a multi layered rose flower?

Debbie Arrington : 7:13

a lot of the single pedal roses have a lot of fragrance and so so they do you have pretty good flavor also, you know you can also use them in to flavor Oh, sorbet or sugars and candy and things like that too.

Farmer Fred : 7:28

So, you being rosarian would have the name for a rose flower that has rows and rows of petals. Are any of those better than others? the younger ones versus the older ones or the smaller ones are they tastier than the larger ones?

Debbie Arrington : 7:46

Oh you mean the size of the roses? of

Farmer Fred : 7:48

the petals.

Debbie Arrington : 7:49

Or the petal size of the petals? Well the the the small petals that are towards the center of the flower. Those are the ones that are going to pick up a little bit of the nectar from it, so those tend to have the best taste to them. And the older the larger pedals on the outside, they've been around longer. So they're like to think think of it as like a head of lettuce and the outer leaves of the lettuce. They tend to go limp, you know, and they tend to have the less taste while the inner these are the lettuce there in the heart. They seem to have the best Crispness and the best taste.

Farmer Fred : 8:28

Is there a bitter part to that rose petal like the point where you yank it away from the flower, that little brace towards the back of the pedal. Is that more bitter than the rest of the pedal?

Debbie Arrington : 8:40

No. The bitterness that I found with some of them was they were just older. They you know, had had bloomed for a while and had gotten a little tired.

Farmer Fred : 8:51

Since you are a Master rosarian, Debbie Arrington, and a garden writer and a big time vegetable gardener. Defend the use of having a rosebush in a food garden.

Debbie Arrington : 9:02

Oh, because it's like a big sign to bees and other beneficial insects that come and get it. There's lots of stuff here.

Farmer Fred : 9:11

So it attracts beneficials and pollinators.

Debbie Arrington : 9:13

it attracts beneficials and pollinators. Yeah. And it's pretty, and it's free. Yeah, yeah. And also the roses a food, but you know, so why not? You know, this is the thing about roses. Is it you got to think that roses are the favorite thing for deers to eat. They roses are deer candy, you know, they will and wild roses, you know, out in the forest staff, they just go crazy over them. There's a reason why it's because they taste good. You know, and they they like them compared to other things. So that's one of the reasons why they gravitate towards it.

Farmer Fred : 9:48

There you go. roses for your garden, even if it's a food garden, you're adding another source of food to your backyard cornucopia.

Debbie Arrington : 9:57

Yes and and if you are seriously looking at the rose Plant as a food plant, definitely let your hips develop because the hips are delicious. roses are from the same family as plums and peaches and things like that. So the hips kind of tastes like a tangy, apricot flavor. They, they have that sort of brightness to them. And the rose hips have the most flavor of any part of the plant. And so they they make an excellent tea. They make an excellent jelly, and they're just pretty too.

Farmer Fred : 10:29

So I guess the way to develop rose hips is to keep your shears away from the rosebush.

Debbie Arrington : 10:36

Exactly, well, you don't really want them to develop hips yet, you know, because they stay blooming as long as you keep trimming off your your spent blooms. But in the fall, you know starting in October, go ahead and let those spent limbs, stay on the plant and mature and then you'll get your rose hips and they'll turn a nice orange and red color and that's when you harvest them.

Farmer Fred : 11:00

October for California for the warmer parts of California. for other parts of the country though, when should you stop pruning back your roses to let the hips develop?

Debbie Arrington : 11:08

At the same time about October. Yeah. Because because they will still be ready in about four weeks. So in November, that'd be fine.

Farmer Fred : 11:16

There you go. Roses. It's part of your daily diet now. Master rosarian, Garden writer. She is the author of the Sacramento Digs gardening blog and excellent garden resource for us here locally. If you live someplace else, check it out. There's a lot of good information in there. sacdigsgardening.blogspot.com Debbie Arrington, thanks for eating roses for us.

Debbie Arrington : 11:38

you're Welcome. Thank you.

Farmer Fred : 11:45

The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast has a lot of information posted at each episode. transcripts, links to any products or books mentioned during the show, and other helpful links for even more information. Plus, you can listen to just a portion of the show that is of interest to you. It's been divided into easily accessible chapters and you'll find more information about how to get in touch with us. We have links to all our social media outlets, including Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and YouTube. Also a link to the farmer fred.com website. That's where you can find out more information about the radio shows. You remember radio, right? now, if the place where you access the podcast doesn't have that information, you can find it all at our home podcaster: buzzsprout. buzzsprout.com just look for the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. You'll find a link to it in the show notes.

Farmer Fred : 12:41

Time for a quick tip recently, we had an extended conversation with Giselle Schoniger. She is the organic educator for Kellogg garden products. And we got onto the subject of controlling bugs, controlling pests in the garden. And specifically we were talking about spider mites and if there's one lesson to be learned about any sort of Pesticide Application, you have to read and follow all label directions. Well, one thing I like to start with, especially for beginning gardeners is identify the pest exactly know exactly what the pest is, and then start with the least toxic alternative. And sometimes the least toxic alternative is just planting a plant in the right place and treating it right. But let's say you do have, in this case, spider mites, you see the webbing. One way to see if it is spider mites is take a white piece of paper, put it underneath that webbing, shape the plant and if you start seeing a lot of little black dots running around on that piece of paper, chances are it's spider mites, and one possible control for spider mites, which if you don't have anything handy, is a good blast to water. And if you do that every day, sometimes you can control it. But to step up to the next level for spider mite control, you might need what's called a miticide, Which is an insecticide that is designed to treat mites and I think Kellogg has a product like that don't they?

Giselle Schoniger : 14:07

Surely do. Okay, so just to backtrack on what you said. you are so right, the right plant for the right pot with the right soil in the right environment. You know, often people want to grow like if you lived in San Diego, you want to grow the same plants you grow in San Diego if you move to Reno and it's just yeah, we see that all the time. And then to address what you just said about what spraying the plant off. That is my first line of defense always even before I spray, I will hose the plant off, I will let it dry. And then I will come back and I will inspect and then I do a just a light spray. So one of the products that Kellogg has, which I think every gardener should have this in their toolbox and it's not just because because Kellogg owns this company. It Because it works. It's safe, and it's safe on the honeybees. And it's called Organacide. Bee safe. three in one. It's available across the country at the big box stores. It's also available all over at our independent garden centers and nurseries. The active ingredient is sesame oil. So Kathy Kellogg likes to say it's like putting a salad dressing on your plants. It's food grade oil. Um, the other ingredients are lecithin, fish oil, potassium, sorbate and water. So it's a very safe product. You want to use this at the cooler part of the day because it is an oil and the oil will smother insects, soft bodied insects, so it's a three in one. It's an insecticide. It's a miticide and it's a fungicide. So it's one product for an entire array of issues in the garden. It works. It's very Effective it also can be used as a preventative. If you have an area that you know, you often get bugs in that area for whatever reason, you can do a light spray on the top of the foliage on the underside of the foliage in the coolest part of the day and the females will not lay their eggs on the foliage, they will go to a plant that doesn't have it on there. It's really extraordinary.

Farmer Fred : 16:26

Always read and follow the label directions for whatever product you're using. I'm reading the label right now for organacide and it's labeled for use against aphids, leaf rollers, mealy bugs, thrips, whiteflies, spider mites, scale insects, certain fungal diseases as well. And that's a very important thing when using a product. an insecticide, a pesticide, if you will, is to make sure that the pest you want to control is listed on the label and that the plant you're applying it to is also listed on the label.

Giselle Schoniger : 17:02

Correct. I think what you said is one of the most important things for our gardening community to understand. I worked at the ag department for about five years in Central California. And really, if a customer buys the product, please read the label before you use it. sit down with a glass of lemonade. And even if you think you know the product, read it because we find a lot of people use products incorrectly. And then they wonder why they had crop failure or why something didn't work, right. So please, I think that is a very good thing to recommend is that we all we want to be safe, we want to use something right I don't want to overuse the product if I don't have to. So you're very right about that Fred.

Farmer Fred : 17:50

And this time of year one of the most common mistakes and beginning gardener might make is if they have tomatoes and they see tomato worms and they're looking around for something to spray the tomato worms with you might reach for a bottle of something thinking, "well, it controls aphids and whiteflies. I'm sure it'll control tomato worms". No it won't, unless tomato worms are listed on the label. And I'm here to tell you that whatever is going to control aphids and whiteflies isn't going to control tomato worms. So basically make sure that pest is listed on the label. One other thing about insecticides I would like to point out for people shopping for insecticides, pesticides at the store is you're going to see on the front of the label, one of three words. it will say either caution, or warning or danger. Caution is the safest of the three. it is the least toxic of the three words, warning is in the middle. then danger. Fortunately, in this day and age, there are very few home insecticides left that have the word danger, but man oh man if if you buy a product with the word, danger, You better follow all label directions because your life is at stake and follow whatever protective measures you need to follow. If that word is there, I wouldn't even recommend you buy a product with the word danger on it. Always start with the word caution. And if that doesn't work, you can move up to the signal word warning, but again, there's going to be extra precautions you have to take to protect yourself.

Giselle Schoniger : 19:25

Absolutely. And you know if I didn't say it yet this product Organacide that we're speaking of the Bee-safe three in one, It is Omri listed, it is approved for organic production.

Farmer Fred : 19:36

Omri, by the way stands for the organic materials review Institute. And if you want to find out more information about organocide, you can visit the Kellogg garden website which is Kellogggarden.com and again my thanks to Giselle Schoniger for talking to us about organic gardening. She is the organic garden educator for Kellogg garden products.

Farmer Fred : 20:02

Always nice to have Debbie Flower come on by and talk to us about gardening retired college horticultural Professor Debbie Flower. and Debbie questions have been coming in. I hope you can make up some answers for us.

Debbie Flower : 20:13

I'll do my best.

Farmer Fred : 20:14

Okay, there have been questions coming in about tomatoes. Now you may recall a long time ago we talked about planting tomatoes deeply in order to develop more roots.

Debbie Flower : 20:27

Yes.

Farmer Fred : 20:27

that basically you cut off all the bottom leaves and maybe just leave the top top set of leaves and and you can bury a tomato plant deeply and it'll form roots.

Debbie Flower : 20:37

Right?

Farmer Fred : 20:37

Some people have the belief that it is those nice fine hairs that you see along the stem that become roots. is that true?

Debbie Flower : 20:47

No, that's not true. The fine hairs on the that you see on the stance of the plan or something called trichomes.. Trichomes are just extensions of the epidermal layer of the plant. And the epidermis is the outer coating of cells. And all the green parts, if they don't have bark, or cork is the technical term. On that portion of the plant, then they have an epidermis. We have an epidermis we humans do and it's our skin. The epidermis is the outer coating of the leaf of the green stem. Any other green parts are there not all green. But anyway, the parts that have not formed cork or bark, periodically, the epidermal cells stick out and make things like hairs. They may also have additional cells on top of them. But the trichomes are primarily extensions of the existing epidermal cells and they're there for protection. they slow down wind, that's a big deal for plants because wind When goes by them, it takes away the water that the plants are exuding out of their stoma. And if you can slow that process down, then the plant will survive a low water situation or a high heat situation better. And so they that that's one of the processes of or one of the functions of the trichomes. So they are not, but they are not able to make roots. For roots, plants make something called adventitious roots, their roots that arise in places that they weren't previously planned for. But for whatever reason the plant decides, doesn't decide plants do not have brains, the plant responds by making roots at that location. And in order for it to be functional. The root has to be near the vascular system of whatever it is attaching to the vascular system being the plumbing in the plant. The plumbing is not at the surface. It's not at the epidermis. It's protected by the epidermis and protected by some other layers of cells. And so the adventitious root has to come from further inside of that structure. And, in the case of tomatoes, and actually peppers makes them as well. These adventitious roots arise from inside the stem near the vascular system they push their way through those other layers of cells and through the epidermis, whether they get them or not or how easily the tomato gets these roots is based on the cultivar or the type of the you know, whether it's a Beefsteak or Juliet or whatever the weather and how it's cared for. If the plant experiences stress, it will produce more of these roots. So burying a stem could be considered a stressful situation for a plant and that will stimulate it. also darkness stimulates the production of roots. flood will, in particular, increase water If you've watering your tomatoes a lot, you're more likely to see these adventitious roots formed. Because water situation in the soil determines whether the plant can absorb nutrients or not too much water, there's not enough oxygen, plants need oxygen in the root system in order to actively absorb nutrients. There's not enough water, the nutrients aren't coming to the roots, the roots can't grow because they need water to grow. So that's another stressful situation. disease or damage can cause these adventitious roots for growing and the place if you play with horticulture, you make your own plants from other plants, you're probably taking cuttings and that's a situation where we get adventitious roots. So again, they're arising from inside of that stem close to the plumbing of the plant, and they push their way out through the other cells so that the plant can survive.

Farmer Fred : 24:51

So are these new roots manifesting themselves as white bumps along the stem of the tomato plant,

Debbie Flower : 24:58

we would call that root primordia so primordial meaning the beginning of them, and I, you know, in my book, they're either there or they're not. And so I would consider root primordial to be roots. Yes.

Farmer Fred : 25:10

And in one callback that people who listen to this program might recognize, the trichomes... are they a modified prickle?

Debbie Flower : 25:19

Well, good question.

Farmer Fred : 25:24

Good. I'm glad I could ask it.

Debbie Flower : 25:28

The prickles are now I'm not gonna go anywhere with that. Yeah, that's a very good question.

Farmer Fred : 25:33

Because we were talking a few weeks ago about I'm going to try and do an alphabetical order. Prickles, spines and thorns and their the difference.

Debbie Flower : 25:42

right?

Farmer Fred : 25:43

Yes. And we learned that prickles were an epidermal structure.

Debbie Flower : 25:47

Right. Right. And they, what I was thinking about was Do they have multiple cells? Trichomes often have multiple cells, but they don't always. So I'm writing down... are trichomes modified prickles?

Farmer Fred : 26:01

I didn't mean to complicate your life. I'm sorry. All right. It's once again, we have delved beyond garden basics into into the mud pit of botany.

Debbie Flower : 26:17

There's lots of those around.

Farmer Fred : 26:19

We love it. But anyway, the basic line is if you see white bumps along your tomato stems, that's a root trying to push out.

Debbie Flower : 26:27

Right. Okay. All right, good. Well, I got something here that says Rubus prickles, morphological studies of developing Rubus prickles suggests they're modified trichomes.

Farmer Fred : 26:40

Yeah. Oh, so maybe you have to modify your alphabetical order. Maybe prickles are really trichomes right? Mm hmm. It just gets murkier and murkier. Murkier. I think at that point, we'll say Debbie Flower. We learned a lot today. Thanks for a few minutes of your time.

Debbie Flower : 27:00

It's a pleasure. Thank you, Fred. All right.

Farmer Fred : 27:06

Garden basics comes out every Tuesday and Friday and it's available just about anywhere podcasts are handed out, and that includes Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, I Heart Radio, overcast, Spotify, stitcher, tune in, and hey, Alexa, play the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, Would you please? Thank you for listening, subscribing and leaving comments. We appreciate it.