084 The Snack Time Donut Nectarine on Fabulous Fruit Friday!

Ed Laivo of TomorrowsHarvest.com returns with another sweet treat of a winner for Fabulous Fruit Friday. It’s a donut-style nectarine, called Snack Time. What’s  "donut-style" mean? It’s refers to the flattened fruit, cultivars that were developed in Far East thousands of years ago. 

Debbie Flower, college horticulture professor (retired) and I stop and gawk at the seed racks at a local nursery. You’ll get a lot of great cucurbit (cucumber, squash, melons) planting tips when you eavesdrop on our conversation.

It’s all on episode 84 of the Garden Basics podcast, brought to you by Smart Pots and Tomorrows Harvest.  And we will do it all in under 30 minutes. Let’s go!

Pictured: The Snack Time Donut-Style Nectarine
Links:
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Transcript

GB 084 FFF Snacktime, Cucurbit Planting TIps 

29:42

SPEAKERS

Debbie Flower, Ed Laivo, Farmer Fred

Farmer Fred  00:00

Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. it's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com/Fred.

Farmer Fred  00:20

 Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot. Ed Laivo of Tomorrow's Harvest.com returns with another sweet treat of a winner for Fabulous Fruit Fridays. It's a donut style nectarine called Snack Time. What does donut style mean? It refers to the flattened fruit. These are cultivars that were developed in the Far East thousands of years ago. Debbie Flower and I stopped and gawked at the seed racks at a local nursery. You're going to get a lot of great seed starting tips when you eavesdrop on our conversation. It's all on episode 84 of the Garden Basics podcast, brought to you by Smart Pots and Tomorrow's harvest. And we'll do it all in under 30 minutes. Let's go. 

Farmer Fred  01:10

It's Friday, which means it's Fabulous Fruit Friday. we are talking with Ed Laivo from Burchell Nursery, home of Tomorrow's Harvest.com, purveyors of fine fruit trees, including today's fabulous fruit tree, The Snack Time nectarine. What the heck is that? Let's find out. Ed, nectarines are delicious. They are the basically the same genus as peaches. And they're sort of like peaches without the fuzz. 

Ed Laivo  01:46

They are peaches without the fuzz, Exactly. But a Snack Time nectarine actually is a little bit more unique in that it's not a round nectarine at all. It's a flat nectarine. So it really makes it especially unique. 

Farmer Fred  02:04

By flat you're referring to the fact that it might be a donut peach or  a donut nectarine, I guess?

Ed Laivo  02:11

I agree. It's a donut nectarine and it's it's a great variety. Excellent variety.

Farmer Fred  02:17

How in the world did these flat peaches, flat nectarines, the donut peach, if you will; where do they come from?

Ed Laivo  02:24

They've been around for thousands of years. And you know they trace themselves back to China and they were revered in China. Back, as far back as say the 10th century BC there's records of the donut style, a flat peach. And they were called Pan Tao peaches at that time. They were even thought to have medicinal, medicinal or mystical powers back then as well so they were really, really revered really, really considered to be something.

Farmer Fred  03:01

And of course, we can sound smart because we have Wikipedia, and I noticed that they refer to the donut peach by many names, including the saucer peach, the Saturn peach, the Chinese flat peach, the UFO peach, and my favorite, the squashed peach because it looks like a squashed, in this case, nectarine.

Ed Laivo  03:22

Yeah, it does. Surprisingly, you know the the Saturn peach is one of the first of the introductions of the donut style peaches into the United States and that was in the mid 1800s I think somewhere around 1869, 1868 it was introduced and it was either called the China peach at that time, or it was called the Saturn peach. I think it probably gained some popularity at that time because of its uniqueness. But came this rift in anything Chinese towards the end of the 1800s, and I think the donut peach actually became a victim of that period as well.

Farmer Fred  04:06

And it is prized not for  the fact that will give you eternal life but in modern day America, its prized for its a very sweet flavor.

Ed Laivo  04:16

A tremendous flavor and you know, in the short time that I've worked for Burchell nursery, which is roughly a year, but in the past, of course, you know I was a part of Dave Wilson nursery and there were a number of different varieties of the donut peach that that we had dealt with. They're all  excellent. But I can tell you this. Burchell has a splendid collection of different varieties of donut nectarines and donut style peaches that I've had the privilege of actually sampling throughout this last year. And I'll go over them again this year. Some of them, you know, we introduced right away because the flavor was just absolutely outstanding. But others I'm still sampling. I'll take another look at them this year, but man, I tell you what, that Snack Time is right up there on the top.

Farmer Fred  05:25

It is praised for it's mild, sweet flavor and, and a taste that has been described as almond-like. That's interesting.

Ed Laivo  05:33

Yeah,  it's not a sub acid, it has a bit of acid in it. But it has a kind of a rich, smooth texture, a little bit of a snap to the skin, which is nice, but it's small, it's not large. And that's really the idea of Snack Time. Where this is something that you throw into your  lunch pail or put it into your kid's lunch for school. It's  not bite size, just a little bit bigger than that. And one or two of them it's just not going to fill you up, it's not going to be a big deal, but you know, those are going to be some special bites coming out of that piece of fruit for your snack time.

Farmer Fred  06:15

All right, let's dig into some of the nuts and bolts about the Snack Time donut-style nectarine. What color is the skin? What color is the flesh?

Ed Laivo  06:24

Red, red skin. Oh, and it's it's very, very pretty red, kind of almost a red-orange, and then the yellow flesh deep, deep, rich yellow for flesh and melting texture.

Farmer Fred  06:37

And speaking of the nuts, is it a cling or a Freestone?

Ed Laivo  06:41

I guess it would be considered a Freestone. Sometimes donut style peaches. Well,  some will claim it to be clingy. And I if I'm not mistaken, I think the Galaxy is and but it's so easy to cut around the pit of a donut-style peach. Who cares?

Farmer Fred  07:01

And I would think that like most peach or nectarine trees, it would prefer full sun.

Ed Laivo  07:05

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, full sun.

Farmer Fred  07:07

Now I realize tree size isn't important in the Ed Laivo lexicon, because I'm sure no matter what size tree that would eventually become, you would say, well, you can keep it at whatever height you want.

Ed Laivo  07:21

Oh yeah, any  fruit tree should be kept under 10 feet tall in the home garden. It's just ridiculous to allow trees to get any taller than that. And even with the excuse of deer and things like that, it's probably better to create barriers around smaller, shorter trees and set up fencing or something like that than it is to grow trees  so tall that it's just inconvenient to pick all the fruit and/or do things like thinning, spraying, the things you need to do to maintain the tree.

Farmer Fred  07:50

 I mean you can keep the tree at any height you want. But the Snack Time donut style nectarine has an eventual height, if you let it grow, 15 feet with a 12 foot spread, which is which is fairly small.

Ed Laivo  08:01

Yeah, that's fairly small. It's only about the size of a two story building so I can see where that that would be reasonable. 

Farmer Fred  08:08

Okay, I get your point! Prune the tree back no taller than you can reach.

Ed Laivo  08:15

Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, keep it low. That's the whole idea. Make it easy. Enjoy your fruit tree. Don't let your fruit tree become some monster in your backyard.

Farmer Fred  08:25

If your rules have not changed, I believe the time to prune that nectarine tree would be like you would any other deciduous fruit tree. That would be when you're thinning the fruit in spring and then after the harvest in the summer. 

Ed Laivo  08:40

Correct. Yeah, that's it.

Farmer Fred  08:42

Yeah, it's pretty easy. You start them small, you keep them small, it's no big deal. Right?

Ed Laivo  08:45

And never have to worry about pruning out  this year's fruiting wood because every cut you make during the summertime actually only generates next year's fruiting wood so it's for the for the novice gardener, it's absolutely the only way to go about pruning in my  book. But you know, for the more advanced gardener, I mean they know that you can keep a tree low and if they're not doing that, then they might have  a particular love for ladders or  heights or , possibly, fruit picking tools are there thing. I'm not sure.

Farmer Fred  09:23

Does the Snack Time donut style nectarine need a pollenizer nearby?

Ed Laivo  09:29

No, no, it's self fruitful.

Farmer Fred  09:31

When the blossoms come out in late winter-early spring on this nectarine, Ed, what color are the blooms?

Ed Laivo  09:37

Nice, dark pink. they are really a very attractive flower.

Farmer Fred  09:44

And how many years it's going to take you to get some fruit off this?

Ed Laivo  09:46

Two years.

Farmer Fred  09:47

Wow, that's pretty good.

Ed Laivo  09:49

Yeah, I mean most most peaches and nectarines are that way some of the older you know the older heirloom varieties can take a little bit longer. But most peaches and nectarines will, barring you know any kind of climactic conditions that actually interfere with fruit development or flowering or things like that, most peaches and nectarines can set fruit the second year, especially if you're pruning them and keeping them low. Keep in mind that there is just a whole bunch of other different varieties of donut peaches. And if you wanted to do a whole donut shop's worth of peaches and nectarines in your backyard, you could do that. You could do the Snack Time, of course, as an early variety, you know, ripening sometime in the late part of June. And then you could go with maybe a Sugar Pie nectarine, which is a yellow one that ripens in  late mid-season. And then maybe an October Snow which is an amazing colored nectarine with white flesh that ripens in the late season sometime around late September, early October. And if you wanted to mix and match, you could plug in a Galaxy peach, which is a classic, that's a white peach, and that's early, you could get one of the Pink Halos or the Scarlet Halos which are mid season and late respectively. And cool thing about them are the pink radiates into the white flesh. And then the Scarlet Halo red radiates into the white flesh. It's amazing and the flavor is to die for. Doing successive ripening, and having all these different varieties of flat peaches would be a real novelty in anybody's yard. And you sure wouldn't be disappointed with the diverse flavor of these different varieties of doughnut-style peaches.

Farmer Fred  11:28

Now you mentioned that it ripens in late June. I imagined that's for USDA zone nine. How about down in USDA zone six?

Ed Laivo  11:36

It's going to be probably a month later. 

Farmer Fred  11:38

Okay, so late July basically.

Ed Laivo  11:40

Yes, correct. Donut style peaches and nectarines set a lot of fruit. They are not bashful in terms of setting fruit.

Farmer Fred  11:47

Yeah, I have a donut style peach in my yard. It's only been there three years now, three and a half years, and it has been loaded with fruit for the last two late springs.

Ed Laivo  11:59

Yeah, yeah, I mean it just can't hardly keep them from setting fruit. You got to appreciate that. That's probably what you know the ancient Chinese really loved about these fruits, these trees as well. They were abundant producers of the fruit. You could have a virtual donut shop in your backyard with the Snack Time donut-style nectarine from tomorrow's harvest.com.

Farmer Fred  12:20

Tell us about tomorrow's harvest.

Ed Laivo  12:21

Tomorrow's harvest is, of course, the Burchell nursery's e-commerce website. We have a wonderful selection of peaches and nectarines and apples and plums and plum-apricot crosses and things like avocados. And we have sub tropicals like guavas and mango. And we have blueberries, you know just the gambit. And we're always adding things. So, you know, Fred, you've known me for many years. I love fruits of all types. And I look for rarities and unusual things primarily simply because that tends to be because I like new and unusual. That's what we'll be bringing in. I'm experimenting now with about 10 different varieties of dragon fruit that we're currently growing and we'll probably have for sale by mid to late summer time when they'll be ready.

Farmer Fred  13:11

So bookmark the site: TomorrowsHarvest.com you'll find a link in today's show notes as well along with links to more information about the Snack Time donut style nectarine. It's going to be a tasty, fruity year.  So why not start it off right with a Snack Time donut style, nectarine. Ed Laivo from Burchell nursery and TomorrowsHarvest.com. Thanks for another Fabulous Fruit Friday.

Ed Laivo  13:37

Hey, Fred. Always a pleasure. And we'll see you next week.

Farmer Fred  13:46

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Farmer Fred  14:53

Our favorite retired horticultural college professor (Debbie Flower) and I took a little trip to a local nursery to look at the seed rack. And of course, as you might imagine, the conversation tends to go down a lot of scenic bypasses. Anyway, this is what we were talking about. It started off talking about cucumber seeds and then expanded to a whole host of great seed starting tips. 

Farmer Fred  15:20

Alright, what other seeds do you have with you? 

Debbie Flower  15:23

Cucumber. It says it's the homemade pickles heirloom variety. Heirloom, it means that it's been around a long time. Humans have been growing it a long time it's been passed from generation to generation. Typically, heirloom people will say it's been around 75 to 100 years, or they'll say three or more generations. It's a loosey goosey term, it doesn't have a real strict definition.

Farmer Fred  15:46

It's more like "natural".

Debbie Flower  15:48

Yes. Oh, and this one says USDA or organic.

Farmer Fred  15:52

This particular variety is called homemade pickles. 

Debbie Flower  15:55

It is called homemade pickles. So that would lead me to believe that you want to pick them at a small size and they'll make great pickles.

Farmer Fred  16:02

All right? Pros and cons of heirloom seeds.

Debbie Flower  16:05

Heirloom seeds, typically a good flavor. That's why they've been passed down. They're typically reliable. That's why they've been passed down from generation to generation. And they are open pollinated, which means that  you can save the seeds and plant them again and they'll get us a very similar plant.

Farmer Fred  16:24

The cucumber flower, is that a perfect flower with both male and female parts or not?

Debbie Flower  16:28

No, it's an imperfect flower. It's a either a male flower or a female flower. And typically the first ones that appear on the plant are male. Squashes are the same way. And then you'll get female ones. After that,  it's easy to tell them apart. The male ones will just be on a stem, the stem grows in the plant, you got this big yellow flower. The female ones will have what looks like a baby cucumber, and then the flower. So where the stem was on the male, it's a baby cucumber. That's just the ovaries. The ovules is the place where the seeds will form if it is pollinated. If it doesn't get pollinated, then what looks like a baby cucumber will turn yellow and shrivel and fall off. You'll see the flowers all day but the pollen is ripe in the morning. And the stigmatic surface, the female flower is receptive in the morning, and that doesn't continue all day. So if you're having trouble getting your squash or cucumbers to pollinate, you need to go out in the morning, find the male, pick it off the plant and take it over to the female flower and touch the central portion which has the pollen on it yellow, very rich yellow pollen to the inside of the female flower and then you've done the pollination for it. And you'll get a cucumber or squash.

Farmer Fred  17:46

Yeah, we should point out that it's not just cucumbers that are like that, it would be all the members of the squash family as well as zucchini, your winter squashes and your melons. Melons, too. Right? The cucurbits.

Debbie Flower  17:59

Cucurbits right, whatever.

Farmer Fred  18:01

Alright, so again, heirloom seeds are gonna give you flavor, but production may be kind of iffy.

Debbie Flower  18:08

Yes, you don't know. And that's like the Beefsteak. There are certain types that aren't as productive in our climate as they might be with your cousin in the Midwest or whatever. So knowing going to reputable sites that have lists of cultivars or types of tomato, squash, cucumber that do best in your environment, locally. All gardening is local I somebody I know said that somebody, then yes,  if you want lots of production, those are the ones you want to go for.

Farmer Fred  18:46

Yeah, exactly. heirlooms perform best where they originated from. Take, for example, the Brandywine tomato from Pennsylvania and in that area they do fine back there, But out here, I think our humidity is too low. The days too warm. They just don't perform very well. Right.

Debbie Flower  19:03

You're absolutely right.

Farmer Fred  19:04

What else you got there?

Debbie Flower  19:06

Well, we were looking at the cucumber. Cucumber is one that I prefer to direct seed, but it doesn't have to be direct seeded. But a trick to know about cucumbers is if there are more than four leaves on the plant in the pot, squash should be the same way, melons would be the same way. If there are more than four leaves on the plant, it will not grow well in your garden, it will be stunted forever. So when we sold these at the sale, we would start them, It says it  sprouts in seven to 14 days. We would start them just about two weeks, maybe three before the sale. And so, they're just little baby plants. They might have a leaf on them. They might still show that stem arch coming out of the ground. And then you want to take them home and put them in the ground right away. If  you let them grow in the pot too long, it will be stunted forever.

Farmer Fred  19:57

And we should point out the sale you're talking about are your college horticultural class plant sales that you used to have at American River College and Sierra College, correct?

Debbie Flower  20:05

Yes. It's always fun working with the students and growing things.

Farmer Fred  20:10

All right, and cucumbers. Is that considered a dioecious plant?

Debbie Flower  20:15

Yes. dioecious means two houses? Well, no, it's monoecious. I'm sorry. Manu, he says is one house. But the girls live in one place and the boys live in another place. So it has male flowers and female flowers on the same plant. dioecious is two houses. You have one plant that is male flowers and one plant that has female flowers. And the pollinator like a bee has to bring the pollen from one to the other or wind can be a pollinator as well.

Farmer Fred  20:43

Or you taking the male flower and rubbing it against the female flower at 9am.

Debbie Flower  20:47

Right? Morning. Sure. All right.

Farmer Fred  20:51

What else you got there?

Debbie Flower  20:53

Marigolds.

Farmer Fred  20:55

Annual flowers can be started from seed, you can start those ahead of time, too. Marigolds love the heat. And so you don't want to put those out in the garden until late April, early May, late May. So if you want to start them from seed, how long does it take for those to come up?

Debbie Flower  21:11

Usually? Five to seven days?

Farmer Fred  21:13

That's pretty quick.

Debbie Flower  21:14

Yes. And they flower in summer. You might say, well, marigolds are so common, I can buy them anywhere I want to go. Yes, but you won't get the same variety, the same amount of choice, as you will at the seed rack.

Farmer Fred  21:26

There are marigolds that range in height from six inches or so all the way up to three feet, like the African marigolds. So yeah, there's a lot more variety on the seed rack when it comes to marigolds.

Debbie Flower  21:36

Yes, and many things tomatoes and zinnias, and different types of corn, all kinds of things that you will find more choice on the seed rack then you will at your local plant vendor.

Farmer Fred  21:51

In fact, looking at the seed rack here, I'm looking at some heirlooms zinnias that are called California giants. So I'm assuming by the name that they originated here in California, hence they would probably do well here.

Debbie Flower  22:02

Yes, good point. I wouldn't want to buy Arctic glow zinnias or something because they probably love it cold and would not do well here that the common name can give you some information like that.

Farmer Fred  22:15

Yeah, all gardening is local. Right. 

Debbie Flower  22:23

One thing that comes up often with the squash, the cucurbits. So we said there was the cucumber squash, winter squash, summer squash, melons? If they share pollen? Will the fruit taste differently? So if a if a winter squash gets a summer squash pollen will the winter squash be different? Will it become a summer squash? Or will it become a winter squash that will taste different? Something like that? The answer's no. The pollen stimulates the production of the seeds in the plant and provide some of the genetics, but it doesn't change the fruit that forms and that's for year one. That's for year one, right? If you save seed from that, then you're getting the different genetics, but for the year that you planted them, no, you will not get a different fruit. If you liken that to humans, when a human gets pregnant, the woman's body gets bigger. But it doesn't change, it doesn't become a man's body that doesn't happen.

Debbie Flower  23:44

So the fruit that's going to form already exists as we said, that's how you define the female flower and it just expands it doesn't change. Alright, if you save seed from that you will get something different next year.

Farmer Fred  24:01

Exactly. That is one of the issues with the cucurbits or whatever you call them. Now, when you go shopping for seeds this time of year you're gonna find all sorts of squash. You'll find zucchini squash, for example. That will mature in the summertime, but you're going to find winter squashes too, including pumpkins, which is considered a winter squash.

Debbie Flower  24:23

They definitely are winter squash. And so the question asked very frequently is, with  a winter squash, Should I planted in the winter? The answer's no. The plant grows in the summer, as does the summer squash plant grow in the summer, but the fruit that forms on a winter squash has a very hard outer coating like a pumpkin does and can be stored into the winter. So they provide a food supply in the winter, but the plant grows in the summer.

Farmer Fred  24:53

One tip about planting winter squash seeds you can sow those directly. In fact I probably recommend it just because transplants of squashes sometimes can be a little persnickety. But when planting squash seeds, it used to be, tell me if this has changed or not, they used to say, put a mound of soil in your yard, maybe raise it eight inches and  on the top flat for about 12 inches (diameter), plant six seeds in a circle, and then keep the two strongest seedlings that come up and take out the rest. Haha, nobody ever does that. They leave all of them and the next thing you know, you've got a yard full of pumpkins

Debbie Flower  25:30

Right, I don't fully understand why they recommend that. I have to say the raising it up onto a slightly raised place would be for drainage.

Farmer Fred  25:41

And usually it says especially among the giant pumpkin growers, if whenever they offer clues how to grow them, they always say to work in lots of steer manure into that little raised plateau.

Debbie Flower  25:52

Right, so you've got some nutrition for that initial root growth. We did grow giant pumpkins at American River College one summer, and there's all kinds of techniques. But if you want a giant pumpkin you have to start with seed that will produce a giant pumpkin. It is not something that you can coax out of something that genetically will only be a small pumpkin. So I just plant them, direct seed. In fact, this packet says when to start inside: it's not recommended.

Farmer Fred  26:21

There you go. Right. Debbie Flower, Thank you for all this good information.

Debbie Flower  26:25

My pleasure, Fred always fun talking about seeds.

Farmer Fred  26:37

The warmer weather means that fruit trees and berry bushes will soon spring to life with the promise of tasty, nutritious fresh fruit for you and your family. So what are you waiting for, a website with more information? Okay, you've got it. It's tomorrow's harvest.com. That's your go-to site for a complete line of backyard fruit trees and bushes. Tomorrow's Harvest fine line of fruit trees is the result of 75 years of developing, testing and growing. Three generations of the Burchell family have been at the forefront of research and development of plants of the highest quality and all of these beautiful, edible plants have been carefully cultivated for your home garden. Look for tomorrow's harvest fruit trees at better retail nurseries. And if your favorite nursery doesn't carry any of tomorrow's harvest fruit, nut and berry varieties, you can order them directly from tomorrow's harvest.com. And they'll come to you in Plantable Paper Pots, ready for you to stick directly in the ground, pot and all. Let the Burchell family's three generations of experience take root in your home orchard, Landscape and Garden. Tomorrow's harvest. It's goodness, you can grow. If you want to find out more about their nutritious and delicious fruit and nut varieties, visit tomorrow's harvest.com 

Farmer Fred  27:45

The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast has a lot of information posted at each episode: transcripts, links to any products or books mentioned during the show, and other helpful links for even more information. Plus, you can listen to just the portions of the show that interest you, it’s been divided into easily accessible chapters.  Plus you’ll find more information about how to get in touch with us. Leave an audio question without making a phone call via Speakpipe, at speak pipe dot com slash gardenbasics. it’s easy, give it a try. And you just might hear your voice on the Garden Basics podcast! If you’re listening to us via Apple podcasts, put your question in the Ratings and Reviews section. Text us the question and pictures, or leave us your question at: 916-292-8964.916-292-8964. E-mail: fred@farmerfred.com . If you tell us where you’re from, that will help us greatly to accurately answer your garden questions. Because all gardening is local. In the show notes you’ll find links to all our social media outlets, including facebook, instagram, twitter, and youtube. Also, a link to the farmerfred.com website. 

Farmer Fred  29:17

Thanks for listening to Garden Basics with Farmer Fred, brought to you by Smart Pots. Garden Basics comes out every Tuesday and Friday. It's available on many podcast platforms including Apple, Spotify, Google IHeart, Stitcher and many more. And if you're listening on Apple, please leave a comment or a rating. That helps us decide which garden topics you'd like to see addressed. And again, thank you.