085 Heat vs Garden. Figs, Pomegranates. Shamrocks. 29:52
SPEAKERS
Warren Roberts, Debbie Flower, Aileen from Napa, Phil Pursel, Farmer Fred
Farmer Fred 00:00
Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. it's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com/Fred.
Farmer Fred 00:20
Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot.
Farmer Fred 00:32
What if the only garden space you have seems to be too hot to grow anything? Maybe your only sunny spot is against a south facing wall on top of a concrete patio. There are solutions. Lack of rainfall this year is a growing problem in many states in the west and southwest, as well as other parts of the country. Are there any fruit trees you can grow that are considered drought-tolerant? We talk about two tasty fruit trees that don't require much water once established. Also, Warren Roberts of the UC Davis Arboretum talks about a plant that will magically appear on many people's clothing this week: shamrocks. They're a part of a family of plants that has some saints and a few sinners, too. It's all on episode 85 of the Garden Basics podcast brought to you by Smart Pots. And we'll do it all in under 30 minutes. Let's go.
Farmer Fred 01:26
We like to answer your gardening questions here on the Garden Basics program, and we welcome your audio participation in this. You can leave a message at speakpipe.com slash gardenbasics. And when we bring in the people to answer the questions, we like to bring in our favorite retired college horticultural professor, Debbie Flower. And Debbie, we had a question from Aileen over in Napa, California. So let's listen to what she has to say.
Aileen 01:55
Hi. I was wondering if I could get some help with my garden question about planting summer vegetables in a really hot spot. So I rent an apartment in Napa, California. And the only place I have available to grow vegetables this summer is in my parking lot. I'd have to put the containers against the wall of the apartment building. So if you can imagine asphalt and south facing wall, I expect the temperature of the containers to be exceptionally warm. What plants would actually do well in a location like this, and how can I maybe keep the containers cool. I know this is unusual, but I also know that a lot of listeners are probably don't have as much garden space as they would want. And maybe this would help them stretch their gardening to new quarters of their yards. Thanks so much.
Farmer Fred 02:52
I gotta admit, Aileen is a true dedicated gardener, willing to give up her parking space to garden. So there's that.
Debbie Flower 03:00
True she's creating her own Eden outside of her apartment.
Farmer Fred 03:05
I guess the first thing I would do before trying to choose what to plant would be how to cool off that area a little bit.
Debbie Flower 03:12
Cooling it off in the summer. One of our great tools for cooling things off is water. I actually have a section of my garden that is also very hot. It is a south facing stucco wall and there is a raised bed there which isn't exactly a container but it is a container, not the type that Aileen is talking about. And I water my garden regularly. It's on a timer and micro-sprays for the water for the roots. I do that in the very early morning when when it's recommended for less evaporation and more water conservation. But when it's really hot, I also water later in the day. I'll turn it on manually or I'll go out with the hose and just sprinkle those plants down just for the surface. I'm not trying to water the roots. I'm just trying to provide some water that will help cool the plants off. You know how you feel on a hot day when you jump into a swimming pool. Then you feel cooler. Water is a good way to do that. So that's number one. You're gonna have to water a lot. Aileen is really correct about that being a hot, spot asphalt and stucco. I shouldn't say stucco but the south facing wall of a building. Lots of reflected light there and those pots will suffer when the sun hits a black plastic pot, the kind most of our plants are purchased in or come in when we purchase them. It'll only takes about a half an hour for full sun on the side of that pot to kill the roots. And you may have seen the results of that when you unpot something that you've purchased or that you've grown yourself and that corner of the pot, that side of the pot was hit by full sun, you'll see almost a pie shaped change in color in the root zone, it won't be as white or light colored as the rest of the roots in the pot are. And that's because the sun hit that for at least a half an hour, heated that corner of the pot up to 140 degrees and the soil and roots within it, and killed them. So if you're growing in containers, and in really any outdoor situation, using a light colored pot is desirable. I've had students take number 15 (pots), which are about 15 inches across and 15 inches tall, and we took them outside, cleaned them up, just washed them off, dry them off and painted them a light color that helps reflect the sun. If you can do a pot-in-pot situation where there's an airspace between the two pots, then you've got some natural insulation from sun even if it's a black pot on the outside, if there's an inch or more, or so of airspace between the pots, that will prevent the interior pot from heating up quite so much. Lifting the pots off the ground is an excellent idea, having something underneath them. A couple of bricks or I like to buy the wheeled potholders that you see. I like the metal ones, particularly, that you see for sale in a garden center. That way I can move the plants around if I need to, they get too crowded, or I want to clean underneath the pots or that sort of thing, because a large pot gets heavy when it's got a plant and media and moisture and all inside of it. And that helps to get some airflow underneath the pot. Lift the pot a little bit away from that asphalt can help shading, of course would be ideal. At home, I use in my backyard, where nobody can see it, I use a lovely garden umbrella. And I can obviously move that around as the sun changes angles over the course of the growing season. And that will help shade the plants that I have. I've had fried tomatoes right on the vine because of this very hot spot in my garden. And the umbrella has helped tremendously in a parking lot. I'm not sure what the landlord and tenants would put up with. So another idea is a structure, being fairly easy to make out of PVC pipes, have some long ones that sit on the ground, and then put some t-shaped pieces in there and some uprights. You can hang floating row cover or a sheet. Something thin, something that lets some light through, something light colored over the top. And you can let it drape down between the wall and the pots. And those things should help cool off that plant.
Farmer Fred 07:47
How about joining a community garden? Now it may mean joining a church and using theirs. But you know, when you don't have the right location? There are community gardens. It's just a suggestion.
Debbie Flower 08:02
Yeah, that is an idea. That would help as well. Aileen also asked about crops that would do well in this hot situation, I would definitely not grow peppers. Peppers, like a milder climate than that. You could try tomatoes, they would need some shade, or they will really struggle. I think corn might be a good plant to try.
Farmer Fred 08:24
What every apartment manager wants to see: a field of corn.
Debbie Flower 08:29
Well, you know, maybe you're decorating for October. There you go. You're prepping for October. I think sunflowers might do well in there. If you can grow the kind for snacking seeds. I hope that it's a vandal-free area because I think blooming sunflowers could be attractive to people who want to walk off with them, as well as the garden umbrella could be attractive to someone who who thinks they need it more than you do. But if you do grow corn, remember corn is wind pollinated. And so you need a patch of corn, not a row, a row is not sufficient, you'll get very poor pollination. And every single kernel of corn has to receive its own bit of pollen in order to become a corn kernel. The flowers of the corn on the very top of the plant and that's where the pollen is formed. And then a corn stalk will produce one or two ears. And out of those ears come what I was taught to call the silks. There's one silk for every kernel of corn in that ear of corn and a pollen granule has to land on and successfully travel down that tube to get to where the kernels form in order to have a corn kernel form. So one day the wind might blow from the eas,t another day the West, another day the South, another day, the North, another day, south-southeast or whatever. So you want the corn to be grown in a circle basically, or square patch if you're doing it in the ground so that no matter where the wind comes from and what direction it blows on your patch, it will send pollen on to other corn plants.
Farmer Fred 10:03
That's a very good tip for anybody that's growing corn, be it sweet corn or popcorn, is don't be linear. Do not plant rows of corn unless it's a square of corn.
Debbie Flower 10:15
Right. And another thing about corn is that because of the way pollinates if you're growing two different types of corn, say sweet corn and popcorn, within a close distance, and what I've heard is a mile, maybe you know another number, without a barrier between them, the pollen will move from one patch to another. And so you could end up with popcorn in your sweet corn, you'd end up breaking a tooth while you're trying to eat it, and sweet corn in your popcorn. And so you'd end up with mushy popcorn. So you really, if you're just growing in containers outside your apartment, in your parking spot, you really need to grow only one type of corn,
Farmer Fred 10:51
the plants that I have attempted to grow in a very similar situation on concrete next to a south facing fence in full sun, because it's one of the few areas in my yard to get full sun. I've tried tomatoes, they were gone by July, I've tried squash, zucchini, and it lasted till August. But I think the only reason it lasted that long was because I got out there every day and opened up the big umbrella that shaded them from like one o'clock to about six o'clock. And this year, I'm going to take your advice and try corn and see what happens.
Debbie Flower 11:27
Right. the umbrella, if you do use it, would have to be or should be open and closed on a daily basis. If we get wind at night, it could fall over and maybe onto your neighbor's car or onto the building and harm something, it's much less likely to fall over if there's a wind at night. So opening it during the day period every day is going to be a chore. So yes, you need to consider that. As far as tomatoes, you know, kind of by July, if you've started your tomatoes in April, by July, maybe you're tired of tomatoes, maybe it's a self controlling situation. If the container is large enough and kept moist. Because it takes longer to heat up a larger amount of space and smaller and a moisture amount of space than a dry amount of space takes water and takes a lot more energy from light to become hot than dry air does. So if you have a large container and it's protected, somehow it's painted white, you could wrap it in aluminum foil, which is an ugly look. I don't know what your neighbors would think of that. You can do the pot-in-pot situation, then the container in the media should be kept at a much more moderate temperature if you use one of those techniques or the shade overhead. And in that case, root crops might be your friend. Radishes are easy to grow and done year round. And so they would be something good. Try carrots, typically done in the early season. But you could give it a whirl.
Farmer Fred 13:05
Garlic.
Debbie Flower 13:06
Yes, garlic, you could do that. So things where the productive part is underground.
Farmer Fred 13:12
I think for sort of moderating the heat coming up from the asphalt, I still like the idea of putting in a big two by four rectangle there, and putting four inches of mulch in there and setting the pot on the mulch to sort of alleviate some of that heat from the asphalt. I would suggest moving, but I know what the housing situation is in Napa. So probably that's not a viable alternative.
Debbie Flower 13:41
Right. And when you say two by four, you mean using pieces of wood that are the dimension two by four inches.
Farmer Fred 13:47
Yes, a two by four, just basically making a rectangle out of them and then filling that little rectangle that's only basically four inches high. With three and a half inches or so of mulch or bark I add, just to cool off that surrounding area somewhat.
Debbie Flower 14:02
I think that's a good idea. And it should be wide enough, big enough in all directions that any plant parts that hang over the side of the pot would still be over that mulch.
Farmer Fred 14:11
Right.
Debbie Flower 14:12
That mulch is going to, because of the hangover, the asphalt, it's going to just radiate up into their leaves. So make it bigger than you think you need it to be. It's temporary, it will drain well although mulch itself will hold moisture, which is not a bad thing. Just keep your pot above the mulch. You can bury pots in mulch, I don't like to do it because I don't know what's going on down there although it is a pot but that somehow shading the the south side so it'd probably be just one side with that mulch itself is also a possibility.
Farmer Fred 14:46
I am concerned about how water is going to get there. If it's a parking space, there's probably not a water faucet nearby, and probably not a hose nearby, and if you're thinking of, "well I'll just fill up my two gallon watering can in the kitchen, take it outside and water the plants". That's gonna get old real quick.
Debbie Flower 15:04
Yes. And in the summer in the high heat, especially in a high heat situation, you're gonna have to water more than once a day, in order to to make it work.
Farmer Fred 15:12
Yeah, really, there should be an automated watering system.
Debbie Flower 15:15
Yes, you do. Even if it's just for part of the watering as I do, I let that do the root watering. Then I just come out and do the four o'clock is when I typically do it the afternoon cool-off watering.
Farmer Fred 15:27
Hey, I just thought of an idea. If, if you have an old car, you could cut off the top and fill up the body of the car with soil and plant in that.
Debbie Flower 15:39
There you go. Make double use of the parking spot. Yes.
Farmer Fred 15:43
Okay, so that's not going to work either. Oh, wow, there's that community garden again. Yes, but this is doable, there are things you will be able to grow. In fact, you may want to think about falling in love with cool season vegetables.
Debbie Flower 15:57
Right. That's the other thing. Leave it empty for the summer and and just grow (cool season crops), it's gonna be warmer. So you may be able to (extend) your seasons. It may be different than people who are growing in the ground near you. You may have a longer warm period and be able to maybe start your tomatoes earlier. I hate to say that because people love to hear that. And then they all run out and buy them.
Farmer Fred 16:17
And then there's a hailstorm in March.
Debbie Flower 16:20
Yes, yes. Yes, we have had this year. Yes.
Farmer Fred 16:24
Aileen, thank you for calling in your question. She called in the question via speakpipe.com. And you can do it, too. Speak pipe.com slash gardenbasics. Or you can text us the question with your pictures at 916-292-8964, that's 916-292-8964. You can leave a voice message there. Email? Sure, send it to Fred at farmer fred.com. Please tell us where you live, that can help us think more about the area in which you live and attempt to come up with a viable solution other than moving or joining a community garden which isn't a bad solution really.
Debbie Flower 17:04
You'll meet some nice people
Farmer Fred 17:05
Exactly. Gardeners are the friendliest people.
Debbie Flower 17:08
They are.
Farmer Fred 17:09
Debbie Flower once again, thank you for your important, vital information on this.
Debbie Flower 17:13
Oh, it's fun to talk to friendly people who garden.
Farmer Fred 17:20
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Farmer Fred 18:19
Droughts can happen anywhere. We're currently looking at one here in California but it can happen anywhere in the country. Are there fruit trees, fruit bushes that might withstand an expanded drought in your area? We are at a local nursery here in the Sacramento area. And we're talking with Phil Pursel from Dave Wilson Nursery. Dave Wilson Nursery is a wholesale grower of fruit and nut trees. They sell their trees throughout the country. And Phil, when it comes to drought tolerant, tasty fruit, I'm thinking figs and pomegranates.
Phil Pursel 18:52
Absolutely. When it comes to the home garden, you can almost neglect figs and pomegranates. Those are really the trees that we send people to.
Farmer Fred 19:07
I had no idea that figs were so adaptable. You were telling me that you've been busy selling figs to the Chicago area.
Phil Pursel 19:15
Yeah, so there's a variety called Chicago Hardy. We grew like three or four varieties that are good down to USDA zone five. Now that being said, figs are propagated on their own root stock. So if they were to die back once the the figs are established, die back to the ground, they're like a perennial when they come back up, they're true to type. So in the cold areas, we always suggest that if you have a fig, try to go ahead and mulch it with straw and cover it like you would your roses. Now protect them but if you get a heavy freeze or forget heavy snow on them, rest assured, when that comes out in the springtime, it's gonna have all season to grow out and you still get figs.
Farmer Fred 19:58
And in the colder climates I would think the figs probably come out a little bit earlier or later than California?
Phil Pursel 20:06
They would come out later.
Farmer Fred 20:07
Later. Yeah. All right. So September, October?
Phil Pursel 20:10
September. Yeah. Absolutely.
Farmer Fred 20:13
All right. So figs are widely adaptable throughout a lot of the US, USDA zones five through 10. What about pomegranates? Pomegranates are more of a shrub like plant that can certainly take a drought, but how hardy are they?
Phil Pursel 20:29
Pomegranates are more Zone seven through 10. Think of the warmer climates where you have not such a harsh winter where they might freeze back. There is one variety called AC Sweet that we acquired from Utah. And that variety has proven to be a little bit more frost hardy. But that being said, if you're in the north, or the upper east coast pomegranates probably aren't your ideal candidate. But the Carolinas, through the South, California, Arizona it's a very easy plant to grow. They don't get diseases, they don't get funguse, they are very drought tolerant, very decorative. The flowers of a pomegranate are they're so unique in you know, so decorative.
Farmer Fred 21:31
Yeah, they're kind of a bell-shaped flower and the hummingbirds love it when it's in bloom.
Phil Pursel 21:36
They do. They almost look a little alien. But because you know, everyone's kind of used to let's say Camelia flower or an azalea, but they are very decorative. The fruit, pomegranates are something that everyone kind of remembers from their childhood, around, you know, Halloween. There are a lot of great varieties out there. Our favorite at the nursery is called Parfianka. And Parfianka doesn't have the the tartness that the traditional Wonderful pomegranate has, and it has a soft seed so you can easily dress your salad with pomegranate aerils, and enjoy them without you know, really the heavy crunch to it.
Farmer Fred 22:16
Consider these two plants. A couple of bearing fruit trees or shrubs that have a little bit of drought insurance: the fig, which is adaptable all the way down to USDA zones five all the way up to 10. And the pomegranate, which is probably better suited for South of the Mason-Dixon Line, USDA zone seven through ten. Once these plants are established, they don't require that much water. And we should point out that both are self-fertile, aren't they, they don't need a companion.
Phil Pursel 22:45
Correct. Both are self-fertile. And then, going back to the figs, there are a few varieties that are that are adaptable for container gardening. And that's the other good thing. If you live in an area that is prone to heavier freezes. If you plant your fig in a container, you can always bring it in and protect it.
Farmer Fred 23:08
What size container is best for a fig?
Phil Pursel 23:11
If at all possible, you try to get the biggest one. So think of a whiskey or a wine barrel that would be ideal, you know any type of fruit tree, the larger the container, the better success you can have with it.
Farmer Fred 23:23
Alright, then move it under cover and make friends with your local high school football team. And when that frost is predicted, call them over to move it for you.
Phil Pursel 23:31
Exactly.
Farmer Fred 23:33
Alright. Figs and pomegranates. Add them to your list of backyard fruit trees that you should have. Phil Pursel from Dave Wilson Nursery. Phil, thank you so much for telling us about figs and pomegranates.
Phil Pursel 23:44
Yep, absolutely anytime.
Farmer Fred 23:48
Every week on the Garden Basics podcast we like to talk with Warren Roberts of the UC Davis Arboretum. He's the superintendent Emeritus. And he always has an interesting Plant of the Week for us. Coming up in a couple of days, it's going to be St. Patrick's Day. And when you think of St. Patrick's, what do you think of? No, no, not green beer. Warren, you'd think about shamrocks wouldn't you?
Warren Roberts 24:11
Probably, as well as corned beef and cabbage. But shamrocks, yes. The shamrock is from the Irish Gaelic, which means young clover. Evidently, the connection with the Irish is St. Patrick, trying to explain the idea of the Holy Trinity. Pick the leaf of a clover and held it up and said to you are three in one. And evidently that's how it got its fame. What is a Shamrock? That's a good question.
Farmer Fred 24:45
Yeah, the Sunset Western garden book and the Sunset National garden book seemed to be confused on the issue.
Warren Roberts 24:51
The idea of the three leaflets, sets the tone. Trifolium repens. A white clover that's clover, Ladino clover. Those are some of the commonnames. It is commonly thought to be the one that St. Patrick used. It's native to Ireland. There's another one called Trifolium dubium, sometimes called the lesser clover, which has a yellow flower. I've read that's the one, trifolium dubium, is the one that's used that is grown for St. Patrick's Day in the British Isles. The Trifolium repens is the white clover. It's common in lawns in much of North America and other parts of the world. And it typically has three leaflets, occasionally four. The Oxalis genus, which is not related to the clover. Typically, the leaves of that genus have three leaflets. Oxalis paniculata, the creeping ground sorrel or wood sorrel, which is a common weed and nursery weed is another candidate. Commercially, I've noticed that Oxalis triangularis subspecies Capellinacea, which is a South American species, is sold as a shamrock with white flowers. And it does have the three leaflets, it's a tough and easy plant, there's a purple form of it too, which is become very popular.
Farmer Fred 26:16
So are you saying that there are actually good forms of Oxalis so I shouldn't just shiver whenever I hear that word?
Warren Roberts 26:20
Well, some of the weedy ones in California we really suffer from include an Oxalis called Bermuda Buttercup, Oxalis pes-caprae, which has become a weed over much of this state and it's almost impossible to eradicate. It's very beautiful. It is persistent, that one has not gone into the into the category of Shamrock, at least as far as I know. But Oxalis triangulara has, creeping wood sorrel, Oxalis corniculata which is very weedy as well. And then there's several others.
Farmer Fred 26:57
Yeah, I noticed that in the Sunset National garden book, they talk about another one Black Medic, a Medicago?
Warren Roberts 27:05
Medicago, which includes the burr clover, I think that Medicago lupulina, yellow clover, correct and sometimes referred to as Shamrock as well. Lots of candidates for this contest of who's going to be called a shamrock. But the more traditional ones would be the white clover I think.
Farmer Fred 27:28
The good part is you don't have to go out and buy one it will find you.
Warren Roberts 27:33
Yes, it will. It's that's a good thought. And also Oh, the other thing is clover is actually edible. So during times of famine, it would also help people stay alive, because some of them are used in making hay.
Farmer Fred 27:51
And in fairness to the Oxalis marketing society, there are desirable forms of Oxalis that make decent plants.
Warren Roberts 28:01
Oh, there are. In fact, there are very few Oxalises that are really, truly weedy. But the ones that are, really are very weedy. Yes. And so they give a bad name. It's kind of like, when you're a kid, you're perfectly innocent, and you get blamed for something that your sibling did. So the whole genus Oxalis' reputation suffers from the actions of a few malcreants. Oh, and then the thing about St. Patrick's Day is that if you don't wear a shamrock or some reasonable facsimile, or wear something that's green, you'll get pinched.
Farmer Fred 28:38
That's right. Yes. You wear green. And it doesn't have to be a four leaf clover?
Warren Roberts 28:42
No, well, then with a more traditional one would be a three leaf clover unless you're willing to explain about the Trinity but the Quadrivity, how'd you call it? Four, which is theologically dubious.
Farmer Fred 28:56
Yes. Thank you, Father Warren.
Warren Roberts 29:02
You're welcome, my son.
Farmer Fred 29:04
For St. Patrick's Day, wear some oxalis. Wear a shamrock.
Warren Roberts 29:11
or a clover.
Warren Roberts 29:12
Yes. It's a great plant of the week. And by the way, if you want to find out more about the UC Davis Arboretum, visit them online at Arboretum.UCDavis.edu. Warren Roberts, thanks so much for that.
Warren Roberts 29:25
You're welcome. That was fun.
Farmer Fred 29:28
Thanks for listening to Garden Basics with Farmer Fred, brought to you by Smart Pots. Garden Basics comes out every Tuesday and Friday. It's available on many podcast platforms including Apple, Spotify, Google, IHeart, Stitcher and many more. And if you're listening on Apple, please leave a comment or a rating. That helps us decide which garden topics you'd like to see addressed. And again, thank you.
