GB 115 Firescaping. Plant of the Week: Hydrangeas.
29:58
SPEAKERS
Warren Roberts, Douglas Kent, Farmer Fred
Farmer Fred 00:00
Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. It's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com slash Fred.
Farmer Fred 00:20
Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, well, you've come to the right spot.
Farmer Fred 00:32
Summertime and the living is uneasy, if you live in an area prone to wildfires. And it's not just California. People throughout the United States who are living in rural areas or where the suburbs meet the wildland, face danger from rapidly moving wildfires. Today, we're talking how to prepare your landscape for such an event. It's called firescaping, and we'll talk with one of the nation's preeminent authorities on how to make your home and yard more resistant to flying burning embers. The Plant of the Week is a very popular summertime bloomer throughout the country. It's the hydrangea. We have tips for growing this colorful, commonly found shrub. It's all on episode 115 of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. We'll do it all in under 30 minutes, let's go.
Farmer Fred 01:28
About 4 million acres burned in California last year. That's more than any other year in modern history. In many ways, it was entirely predictable. The Sacramento Bee did an analysis that showed that most of the scorched land sits within what's called a very high fire hazard severity zone, areas designated by CAL FIRE scientists as highly vulnerable to major wildfires. And there's a pattern to these maps. The Sacramento Bee analysis shows that more than 2.7 million Californians live in very high fire hazard zones, about 350,000 live in towns and cities that sit completely or almost completely within the zones. Well, the story is much the same in other communities that have burned in recent years. And in interviews with homeowners who have been affected by these fires, it's not uncommon to hear, "We know there's going to be another wildfire. We just pray it's not in our backyard." Well, the thing is, you better do more than praying. And by the way, it isn't just California. The tragedy is hardly a crazy California thing. According to my next guest, conflagrations are consuming more live structures and acres throughout the United States. Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Tennessee, Texas, Washington are setting records. And with a widespread drought, it's not going to get any better. And for that matter, it's overseas as well. We've seen the pictures of the wildfires in Australia, for example. We're talking with Douglas Kent. Doug is the author of, "Firescaping: Protecting Your Home with a Fire Resistant Landscape." Even though you do have plant lists, suggested plant lists, you point out that maintenance is key. Maintenance and cleanup is very important to suppress fires.
Douglas Kent 03:18
Basic housekeeping is essential, absolutely essential. It is the lack of our participation in the landscapes around our communities that welcome fire in.
Farmer Fred 03:32
As you mentioned about the lack of maintenance that can just lead to such wholesale destruction, there's a great video on YouTube, from the Insurance Institute for Business and Home Safety's Research Center, where they basically deliberately burned down a house. They had these ember fans blowing hot embers onto typical home construction and home landscaping. And part of the house was built with fire resistant landscaping and fire resistant materials. And it's just amazing. The number of ways burning embers can enter your home, through vents, through vinyl windows that melt, and talk about maintenance, gutters filled with debris.
Douglas Kent 04:17
Yeah, you're exactly right. The gaps in garage doors is a huge one, you know in the Woolsley fire, what was that, 1400 structures loss? Over 60% of those structures that were lost or burned out by firebrands (embers) not directly in contact. And unofficial estimates say that 40% of those burned from the inside out. So that means that the fire bed penetrated the structure through the garage or through an opening in a vent, through an open window, and ignited the structure from the inside out. Yeah, so really the structures are the place to start if we want to create a fire protected state or community.
Farmer Fred 05:00
What was also amazing in this video was how quickly the mulch that surrounded the home caught fire. A lot of people use mulch. I talked about using mulch, because it is good for your plants. But it's not good if you have it piled up right next to your house, especially if you've got tall plants that are growing up right next to your house, as well.
Douglas Kent 05:22
You're exactly right, Fred. Grace Slick, who lived in Marin County lost her house to gorilla hair mulch. She had completely redone her landscape, spread gorilla hair mulch all over the place. And county workers were working down below her property, caused a spark. It just raced up to that mulch and consumed her house. You know, we have to be very cautious when we use mulch in fire country, for sure.
Farmer Fred 05:49
Yeah, gorilla mulch, also called gorilla hair, is the fine, thin, hair bark that you might see at a garden center or big box store. And if you're going to use mulch, you'd be better to use large mulch, medium mulch, small mulch, but try to avoid that gorilla hair. So let's get into what you talked about in the book Firescaping. And one of them is sort of like playing basketball, you need to establish zone defense.
Douglas Kent 06:18
Yes, sir. Yeah, that was really a great analogy. You're exactly right. You know, the zone theory actually came out of the L.A. Arboretum in the 1970s. And it was response to California's first major urban fire that was the Bel Air fire of 1961. Federal and state funding had roared into L.A. County, and massive amounts of work was being created to help create these fire protected communities. And what came from that was the zone theory. And it's just three concentric zones around any structure. So the first zone is Zone one, from the structure to 30 feet out. The job of that zone is to endure intense heat, and endure firebrands (flying, burning embers), and those firebrands may be raining on that zone for days or weeks. Further out, ,from 31 to 70 feet is the fuel break. And this is where a fire, a ground fire or a canopy fire, is absolutely put out. So it doesn't go any further than 70 feet to a structure. And then from 71 to 100 feet or 200 feet out, depending on where you live, is zone three. And it's really about fuel modification, we're reducing the intensity of the fire. So there's the three zones, reduce the intensity of the fire, stop the fire, and then make sure that that structure can endure the effects of the fire.
Farmer Fred 07:45
When people have been reading about these zones, and there's a lot of literature about them, they sometimes walk away with the impression that zone one is nothing but hardscaping. It's nothing but concrete. When in reality, you could have a lawn.
Douglas Kent 08:01
You can have anything. Japanese maples, you know, I've seen junipers survive a house fire, just eight feet away. Anything that's well maintained and loved and free of the fine, ignitable fuels is probably okay. It's really about the design and the massing. So if we have just this utter mass of plants, then your fire risk liability is going to increase. But if the landscape is open and broad and sweeping views, you're less likely to have that high risk. Let's think about the design and the composition and the massing. And like you said before, about the maintenance, that is really the critical part.
Farmer Fred 08:43
What I also found interesting and you're talking about plants that are can offer some degree (of protection) from a wildfire. And you talked about the oleander, how in its early years, an oleander can suppress a fire. But as an oleander ages, it could actually turn into a liability. Why is that?
Douglas Kent 09:03
Well, just as anything ages, it becomes more brittle and less resilient. And it accumulates a lot of those fine materials and fine fuels inside of its canopy. So even among the most fire resistant plants, I've seen piles of ash. Every plant I've ever recommended, I think I've seen a pile of ash. So it's really sometimes a little problematic to recommend any one plant.
Farmer Fred 09:26
But I think one good piece of advice though, is don't have mulch right next to your house and don't have those ladder plants right next to the house to where a fire can basically climb up the plant and get into your eaves.
Douglas Kent 09:41
Oh, apt. Sage advice, right there. Yes, really, you don't want anything remotely flammable within five feet of a structure. Nothing remotely flammable. If a fire starts next to a structure, you get this effect called compression and convection. And so out in the wild, a three foot flame all of a sudden turns to six or seven or eight feet when it's right up against a vertical surface like a building, because you get that compression of the radiant heat. And then that rapid convection which elongates the flames. So yes, no mulch against the house, no woody material, or even the more flammable plants like rosemary and cypress. Anything with a dense, twiggy interior would never be recommended. That would be like a hedge. Anyof those would not be recommended. No, you've nailed it, right there, Fred.
Farmer Fred 10:31
Well, when you said sage advice, I'm thinking I wouldn't plant a sage either, because it is so aromatic. And you point out in your book that the aromatic plants contain a lot of oils, and that can add flame to the fire.
Douglas Kent 10:46
Yeah, but if we had plants like maybe like coral bells, or agapanthus, or day lilies, there's so many neat plants. Japanese maples would be ideal in that first zone or even close to a structure. Succulents, you know, the sedum and agave would all be wonderful.
Farmer Fred 11:04
And let's talk about some of the things that people have near their house that maybe they should think twice about. When I lived in the country, a lot of people liked to line their driveways with trees on either side. And they were usually usually fast growing trees. And fast growing trees usually aren't your best quality trees. But if you stop and think about it, well, wait a minute, if the driveway catches fire, and those trees catch fire, how is the fire department going to get to the house? Well, they're not.
Douglas Kent 11:34
They're not. They're not going to risk their life for a property that's poorly maintained.
Farmer Fred 11:38
Yeah. And you know that they can spot that a mile away. And that is something else that's kind of sad. There hasn't been, as you pointed out in your book, that much enforcement of cleanup, of mitigating these possible issues.
Douglas Kent 11:55
Well, you know, part of that is the personality the fire departments attract. They don't attract people interested in compliance, those people go to police work. So you're trying to get the fire departments to do a policing job, and it's really kind of goes against the grain of their personality. So I think it's a structural issue. I think it's a job they don't want. You know, they don't want to be the bad guy in the neighborhood. Fred, I'm going to backup. You know, compliance with state fire code ranges from 8% to 30%. throughout California. Actually, a fire safe property is more of an exception than a rule. And so you really need enforcement. When compliance is so low, there is some problem. So you know, California is second in the nation, in levels of renters. So we have an incredible high population that rents, and you're going to find out that was the Paradise fire. Most of those structures destroyed were rentals. We saw a lot of rentals get destroyed in the Tubbs fire, the managers of these rentals are not as invested in the safety and the well-being of their community, in the neighbors, because really, when you do a firesafe property, you're not just protecting your family and your valuables, you're protecting everybody around you. And you know, if you're just a renter or you're a landlord, you're less likely to feel attached to your neighbors or your community. And I think that plays a role in our level of housekeeping in fire country.
Farmer Fred 13:22
One thing I learned from your book, and this will be reassuring to gardeners, is that food crops, your garden area, can survive fire brands and intense heat.
Douglas Kent 13:32
Food is phenomenal. Food has been saving Californians for hundreds of years. Not one California mission was ever destroyed by a wildfire. The only mission ever destroyed by a fire was an uprising and that was San Diego. The missionaries had it right, you can see it in their architecture. And you can see it on their use of their land immediately around the structures, their churches. There would have been food crops, there would have been husbandry, animal husbandry, there would have been tanning, and all the uses in that high use around the outside of their structures would have created a low degree of flammability and ignitability.
Farmer Fred 14:10
I guess, really, the problem with some garden features, even in a food garden, would be the structures around it. The play structures, shade structure, storage sheds, the woodpile, maybe we better think about constructing raised beds out of metal instead of wood.
Douglas Kent 14:31
A good idea. Actually I don't know if raised beds are such a risk because they absorb the soil moisture. So they usually have a higher water content than wood that was just laying out. But no, structures pose a disproportional risk. So shade structures, play houses. I mean, even RV's are notorious firestarters. Once an RV gets going, they all produce incredible amounts of heat. And are exceptionally tough to extinguish.
Farmer Fred 15:00
Well, that brings up a really good question then. And this would affect a lot more homeowners. Where should a homeowner, if they think they are in a wildfire area, and my heavens, that thought is expanding to more and more areas. So where do you put the woodpile? Where do you park the RV? How far away from the home should those be?
Douglas Kent 15:22
Well, the woodpile should be at least 10 feet off the house, no doubt about it. The fire professional would always recommend 30 feet, but no less than 10 feet. And the RV can be maintained so it just doesn't catch the firebrands. So if you sweep underneath it, you make sure no fine debris is accumulating in the tire wells, or in the gutters or on the roof, then you should be fine. Firebrands will just hit the RV and bounce off.
Farmer Fred 15:48
How about fuel tanks? Propane tanks, for example? How far should those be away from home?
Douglas Kent 15:53
So those, I think, state law requires I think 60 feet from a structure and that they themselves need at least 20 feet of defensible space around them. And five feet of non flammable material, like gravel, immediately around them.
Farmer Fred 16:10
Well, that will come as a surprise to most people who have a lot of junk usually piled up by the propane tank.
Douglas Kent 16:16
Yes. It's common in fire country to see the propane tank being used as storage. So there's all kinds of stuff leaning on it hanging around it. Yeah, it's tragic.
Farmer Fred 16:26
And weeds, too.
Douglas Kent 16:27
Yeah, right, right. Yeah, state law requires all those wild weeds to be mowed down to four inches around natural gas tanks or propane tanks and, and that's a rarity. And if you've ever heard one of those explode, they are bone shattering.
Farmer Fred 16:43
Well, I think in summary, we should point out that in all zones, removing dead, diseased, and damaged vegetation is the most important use of your time spent in maintenance.
Douglas Kent 16:56
Fred, you nailed it. If I can tell your audience anything it would be get rid of those fine fuels. Just make sure that your landscaping, your house, can survive that firebrand attack and it all comes down to those fine fuels. Is there anything for a firebrand to ignite in your gutter? Next to your door? Out in the landscape? So yes, remove that dead, dying, and diseased vegetation. That's our number one task.
Farmer Fred 17:26
There are a lot of good tips we don't have time to go into here that are in the book, "Firescaping: Protecting your Home with a Fire Resistant Landscape." And it includes things like maybe how to better protect your home with roof sprinklers, or generators or putting your swimming pool to use, dealing with slopes, having an evacuation route and so much more. That's in this book, "Firescaping: Protecting your Home with a Fire Resistant Landscape," by Douglas Kent. Doug, thanks for all the good tips. Is there anything you want to add to this?
Douglas Kent 18:02
I would just like to add that I am super grateful to be on a gardening program. I think gardeners are divine. Our impact on our communities is fantastic. And I would just love to do anything to encourage you and your listeners to continue to garden joyfully. It's just a wonderful divine pursuit.
Farmer Fred 18:22
And gardeners are the nicest people, too.
Douglas Kent 18:26
They are. Alright.
Farmer Fred 18:27
Douglas Kent, author of the book, "Firescaping: Protecting your Home with a Fire Resistant Landscape." If you know people who live in that urban wildland interface and you visited their homes and you think, oh my goodness, what's going to happen here if a fire breaks out? Let them know about this podcast. Have them give it a listen, and then pick up a copy of Douglas Kent's book, "Firescaping". Doug, thanks so much for your time today, I appreciate it.
Douglas Kent 18:53
Oh, Fred, you are a delight. Thank you very much for having me on your show.
Farmer Fred 19:02
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Farmer Fred 20:01
We like to answer your garden questions here on the Garden Basics podcast, and we want to hear your voice too. So please leave an audio question. And you can do that without making a phone call. Do it via speakpipe, at speakpipe.com slash garden basics. It's easy, give it a try. You can call and leave a question via the telephone, as well, at 916-292-8964. 916-292-8964. And you can also use that number to text us questions, maybe a picture of the problematic plant. So here's a little incentive to either leave a voice message at speakpipe.com slash gardenbasics, or call and leave a question at 916-292-8964. If we use your audio question on any episode, during the month of July, you will get, courtesy of the great folks at Smart Pots, a free, Smart Pots six foot long raised bed fabric planter, also known as the Smart Pot long bed. It's rectangular in shape. It has built in partitions, 16 inches wide, 16 inches tall, six feet long. It holds over 10 and a half cubic feet of soil. So again, call us with your garden question, 916-292-8964. Or, go to Speakpipe.com slash gardenbasics. That's one word, GardenBasics. And you can record your question there online. And if we use your question during the month of July on the Garden Basics podcast, you're getting a free Smart Pot raised bed planter. By the way, be sure to tell us in your message where you live so we can get a better answer to your garden question. Because, as I'm very fond of saying, all gardening is local. So come on, join the garden fun here on the Garden Basics podcast.
Farmer Fred 21:52
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Farmer Fred 22:34
Here on the Garden Basics podcast, we like to get the Plant of the Week from the superintendent emeritus of the UC Davis Arboretum and Public Garden, he's Warren Roberts. He always gives us an interesting plant to consider for our garden. Warren, as summer takes hold, I can think of several reliable bloomers for summertime. And one that is just absolutely gorgeous, and it's a drive-by show. You can be going 35 miles an hour and you're going to spot this plant. It's the hydrangea.
Warren Roberts 23:07
That's right, the hydrangea. We have a number of species of course. They range all the way from the Himalayas to Japan. There's also some in the Americas, Mexico, and eastern North America. So it's fairly widespread. It's usually a small shrub, but there are also some vines, but the main one that we grow, that we see in florist shops, is Hydrangea Macrophylla, sometimes called Japanese hydrangea. One word of warning. In the word hydrangea, the first two syllables indicate "water". This is not a plant for a dry garden. But if you have, like I do, a piece of shade where you know it gets no direct sunlight, and a little bit of moisture. I water mine, a good soaking, about once a month. I have a good show. But I only have one.
Farmer Fred 23:59
Yes. Hydrangeas prefer an acidic soil don't they?
Warren Roberts 24:02
And when the soil is alkaline, the flowers are often pink. And there are some dependable blue ones. I mean, you see these gorgeous pure blue hydrangeas. a Nikko blue is one, N-I-K-K-O, blue. This will lead me to the idea of the red, white, and blue garden. Other other hydrangeas, like Hydrangea quercifolia, which is native to the eastern US, perfectly cold hardy, I think, in most of the country, and that has white flowers. So you could have, anyway, starting out with the blue and the white. There are other hydrangeas, hydrangea arborescens is a white flower species from the eastern woodlands. And when I was thinking what I was getting at is getting red, white and blue for Fourth of July. And there are lots of plants that have white flowers. Lots of plants that have red flowers. I'm talking about pure white, pure red. Pure blue is really hard to come by. Oh, well anyway, Hydrangea macrophylla 'Nikko blue" would be one. And some others would be like agapanthus, which kind of looks like fireworks, although it's not a pure blue. So darker blue ones really look blue though. Ceratostigma willmottianum (Chinese plumbago). That's a good tough plant with pure blue flowers. And a lower species called Ceratostigma plumbaginoides, which also has pure blue flowers. Now, of the plumbago itself, we don't have really pure blue, but we have a very bright sky blue. But just plain pure blue? Not yet. Most of the time when you see blue flowers, they're violet.
Farmer Fred 25:44
That's true, like like the Ageratum
Warren Roberts 25:47
Yes. now Lobelia erinus, which is the common lobelia, there are some forms that are almost pure blue. There's a Veronica, Veronica spicata, which has cultivars that are and there's some salvias. Like Salvia farinacea, Salvia patens, Salvia azurea, variety 'grande flora', Salvia chamaedryoides. These do they have pure blue flowers. Some of these are not very cold hardy, but at least they have blue flowers and you could put them in as an annual if you have colder weather. White flowers. Oh gee, roses, crape myrtles, oleander, Hibiscus moscheutos, the huge herbaceous hibiscus, with white flower forms.
Farmer Fred 26:33
There is? I didn't know that. There's a white flowered form.
Warren Roberts 26:36
Well, yes, it is. Yeah. And, and also, some people say this is the national flower, the Shasta daisy. Lucanthemum hybrid superbum that has course, has white flowers. Red? Oh, that's easy. Red roses. The red verbenas, the nice dark red new forms of crape myrtle, oleander has some good strong red flowers, hibiscus moschuetos, which we mentioned earlier. There are pure red forms. Of course, this is a hibiscus it has flowers that are as big as dessert plates. Campsis, the trumpet vines. There is a Campsis hybrid called tagliabuana, which is a hybrid. And I called it for a Crimson trumpet is pure red. And of course, Campsis radicans comes in other colors, like flava, which is yellow. And then the Chinese species, which is the other parent of that hybrid,Campsis grandiflorum. But the only one that has really truly red flowers with either one I mentioned, Campsis hybrid tagliabuana, Crimson trumpet. Now, when you plant Campsis, don't plant it on a house. They'll take the house apart. Yes, it will. I've seen beautiful examples. Maybe you've seen, Fred, in Sacramento, it was an abandoned telephone pole that somebody planted a trumpet vine on. Yes, it became it became a tree.
Farmer Fred 28:10
The Campsis tree!
Warren Roberts 28:11
The Campsis tree, and it's kind of like a rounded crown. It can only go up so far that it branches out. It only holds itself out so far. So for a tree for a narrow sunny space, put in a very sturdy pole, and then plant a trumpet vine on it. And then you've got yourself a tree.
Farmer Fred 28:30
Well, there we go.
Warren Roberts 28:32
You don't have it doing property damage, like it would want to do.
Farmer Fred 28:36
And the good thing about the Campsis radicans, the common trumpet creeper, you can grow that in just about any place in the country.
Warren Roberts 28:44
Oh, yeah. Keep in mind, it loses its leaves in the winter. But as soon as spring comes, it's ready to go to take over.
Farmer Fred 28:51
Well, we started off with hydrangeas, we ended up with a trumpet vine. Go figure. That's okay. I love the scenic bypasses. Warren Roberts is with the UC Davis Arboretum and Public Garden. The Arboretum is open and it's free. If you're ever in the Davis area, go visit it. It's a gorgeous facility. And you can find out more information about the UC Davis Arboretum online, at arboretum.uc davis.edu. Warren, thanks for the plant of the week. I think there were several there.
Warren Roberts 29:24
I was trying to do the red white and blues, too. You're welcome.
Farmer Fred 29:34
Garden Basics comes out every Tuesday and Friday. It's brought to you by Smart Pots. Garden Basics is available wherever podcasts are handed out. And that includes Apple, iheart, Stitcher, Spotify, Overcast, Google, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, and Pocket Casts. Thank you for listening, subscribing and leaving comments. We appreciate it.
